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by Steve Buffum » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:04 pm
by consigliere » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:51 pm
by Steve Buffum » Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:10 pm
Consigliere wrote:Both sides have valid viewpoints to the issue. I am willing to be patient as long as the slope in payroll continues upward in a progressive fashion(as it has been).
by consigliere » Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:41 pm
by pup » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:49 am
by consigliere » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:19 pm
by Steve Buffum » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:49 pm
Pup wrote:Are we just speaking about position players with this? I am pretty sure Dolan is all about spending whatever cabbage he does spend on pitchers.
by pup » Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:42 pm
by consigliere » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:15 pm
by pup » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:30 pm
by consigliere » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:48 pm
by Jon Cohodas » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:05 pm
The free agent crop this off-season was one of the worst ever, if not THE worst ever. Most of the top free agents this year would have been 2nd or even 3rd tier in a normal free agency period. As a result, some foolish deals were passed around to players who will never come close to providing the signing team a good return on their investment.Some of those 2nd and 3rd tier guys that fit into the Indians spending habits in the 90s have become over-priced. Guys like Eddie Murray, Dennis Martinez, and Orel Hershiser who we signed to deals that paid them around $2M to $4M a year, would be getting deals well above that now. Eddie Murray made $3M per year in 1994 and 1995, yet in 2006 Casey Blake will make $3.05M and Ben Broussard $2.5M. That’s not inflation, that’s insanity. Yeesh.So, the Indians took their best shot in free agency this off-season, and came up empty way more times than not. The Indians targeted players at positions of need, namely BJ Ryan, Trevor Hoffman, and Brian Giles. They lost out on all of those player, Ryan because they didn’t want to go 5 years, and on Giles and Hoffman because those players took less money to stay in sunny San Diego.
by consigliere » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:36 pm
by furls » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:45 pm
by swerb » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:46 pm
by Jon Cohodas » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:54 pm
by consigliere » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:07 pm
Dolan refuses to deficit spend, and lags way behind teams in similar markets with similar attendances in payroll spending.
by Steve Buffum » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:09 pm
Jon Cohodas wrote:It is only risky if the contract is such that it makes the player untradable. Supposing the Indians signed Millwood at his terms, if they found that they needed the payroll more than the player they could always trade him. Talented players always have a market.
by Jon Cohodas » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:43 pm
I don't think that's true. Do you think Philadelphia got a good return on their investment in Jim Thome? I don't.
I think Millwood would have made the team better in 2006. I think there's a 50-50 chance that Millwood would have made the team better in 2007. I think there' a 99+% chance that Millwood would have made the team worse in 2010. (In 2009, the last guaranteed year of Millwood's deal, the odds decrease to only 99%.) Given the money involved, I think it was the Right Move not to sign Kevin Millwood. Jeff Weaver, now, that's different. But Millwood, blech. I am willing to accept that this is only my opinion. But I'm not an idiot for having it.
by Steve Buffum » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:18 pm
Jon Cohodas wrote:If you think Millwood is too likely then substitute anyone else at the top end of the market. To say that ALL of the free agents are too risky and therefore they should give up is not an assessment, it is a philosophy.
by Jumbo » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:10 pm
by consigliere » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:32 pm
by swerb » Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:16 pm
On the other hand, the thing about the Indians is they are the exact team that would most benefit from the kind of risk that gets them even 3-5 wins...as they are right at the threshold where a small number of wins can make the difference between in and out of the playoffs.
by pup » Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:47 pm
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