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Anybody want to talk about trading Andrson now

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Anybody want to talk about trading Andrson now

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:10 pm

Its his team fellas .

The players are playing for him .

He is the man .

We've won three in a row and we're 5-2 when he's at the helm .

The podium is now open for the fuckin fool who wants to make the case to deal this kid for picks and beers.




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Re: Anybody want to talk about trading Andrson now

Unread postby Tree » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:21 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:Its his team fellas .

The players are playing for him .

He is the man .

We've won three in a row and we're 5-2 when he's at the helm .

The podium is now open for the fuckin fool who wants to make the case to deal this kid for picks and beers.

SoulDawg


Trade him.

Just pokin yah in the ribs. DA will be here for the entire season, and is going no where. Now, if he stumbles at the end of the season, and doesn't take being demoted too well, and you get offered something for him, you might make the deal.

Other than that, I don't see the Browns trading him so long as he plays well unless he gets tendered.

He was a bit eratic today in the first half, and put us in a bit of a hole. In the second half he played much better. After the defense got two critical stops, DA was able to put together two nice drives.

DA has jumped the first hurdle successfully in part one of a three game set that will probably determine our post season chances. We go at least 2-1 in these three games (Seattle, Pitt, Balt) and we could probably determine our own destiny.
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Unread postby pup » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:37 pm

If trading him enables you to improve the defense then trade him.


You still have no idea if this is the best the offense can run, or if it would be even a bit better with #10.
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:44 pm

Even considering dealing this guy right now is insanity. Even talking about trading him in the off-season is nuts.

DA ... I just can't process what I am seeing from this kid. A laser arm. Frightening accuracy.

I've never felt more confident with any other QB at the helm. Ever.

Six weeks ago, when we got down, DA looked more confused than one of the girls on "Deal Or No Deal" when they open a case with a middle dollar amount.

Now? They get down, and he's got this look like "thats all you got chumps ... get the hell outta my way".

I can't believe I'm saying this. Derek Anderson is one of the best quarterbacks on the planet Earth right now. He's on pace to destroy many of the offensive records for this very proud franchise.

Brady Quinn should absolutely be an afterthought to all Browns fans right now. Not just for this year, but for next year also.
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Unread postby Guest » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:44 pm

I agree with Pup.
Defense is still very shaky and needs some help.
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:47 pm

I just can't comprehend people wanting to trade this kid "for defense" to insert a quarterback that hasn't played a down in the league.

You would need to get LT in his prime to even think about dealing DA. Yes, the defense needs help ... but Jesus H ... you would think that fans of a team with miserable QB play the last eight years would actually want to hang onto a kid that is making this offense run like a well oiled machine.
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Unread postby FUDU » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:53 pm

Whoa Rich relax.

I am in his camp, I like him plenty but we have still only seen a small sample size of what he can do against real good teams and real good defenses.

Trade him right now, no way.

Trade him later, why?

He seems to get response from these guys, as evidenced by the efforts after the catch our guys give and the pats on the back they give him after the play ends.

Plus I loved how he got fired up at the LB pushing him after a tackle was made already. The guy is feeling strong right now, you have to ride it out and take advantage.

He appears to be developing leadership skills and the results are coming along with that.

Our O is going to battle for him right now and that is not something you just plug n play another QB into.

The best QB for this team right now is DA. It doesn't mean he will be for next year but just b/c a highly drafted high paid rookie is waiting on the sidelines doesn't mean DA won't be next year either.
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Unread postby pup » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:54 pm

The offensive line, K2, BE (today notwithstandning), and the threat of a running game have just as much to do with this offense going the way it is as DA.

He still throws some of the dumbest passes I have ever seen. The one to JJ to get them down to the 3 yard line, Joe had no idea it was even coming. Good thing he looked back and made a great catch.

When it comes to the off season, a decision will have to be made. If that decision is to hold onto DA, great. If it is a long deal, then they will have to trade Quinn. They need too much help to keep 2 QB's making that kind of cabbage.

If the defense can improve over the 2nd half of the year and they can do some d-line work in FA and the later rounds in the draft, then my opinion may change. It really has nothing to do with the offense if both stay.
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:00 pm

you would think that fans of a team with miserable QB play the last eight years would actually want to hang onto a kid that is making this offense run like a well oiled machine.

You imply causation where causation is unproven.

An offense with a former #3 overall WR, #6 overall TE, #3 overall LT, #5 overall RB, and a Pro Bowl-caliber LG, with all of them playing up to their potential, run by a quality OC...should look like this.

And you just can't know what responsibility DA has for what's going on until you see someone else under center.
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:08 pm

The kid has a cannon. And is throwing darts. The Browns rushed for like 50 yards today.

DA is this offense right now. We've had all these skill guys before playing with good pass protection in spots. He is the straw that is stirring the drink, and anyone that can't see that ... I can't help you.
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Unread postby FUDU » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:11 pm

And you just can't know what responsibility DA has for what's going on until you see someone else under center.


That is a legit point.

BUT you also just don't make an unjustifiable change for the sake of change while putting everything you have accomplished at risk.

If it aint broke you don't need to fix it.

This offense is getting better, not worse or even just staying the same, it is actually getting better as this season goes on.

If we were winning but DA was not showing signs of improvement (or we were over coming a few of his mistakes in our way to victory) then I would buy what you are selling, but DA is doing just fine. His mistakes are fewer each week and appear to be less costly as well.

There is nothing on film or in the numbers to suggest we NEED to start thinking about anybody else at QB.
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:22 pm

then I would buy what you are selling

You don't know what I'm selling. What I'm selling changes week to week, and, right now, I don't even know what I'm selling.

The window of opportunity for Insert BQ for a Series or Two appears to have closed for the time being. That won't be a realistic consideration again until we play ourselves out of playoff contention (which I don't think is likely to happen).

And all that seems to leave us with now is DA staying healthy and playing out this run or DA getting hurt and BQ being forced into action. The former puts Phil in a tough spot this offseason. The latter, who knows?
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:48 pm

Yeah, Anderson is starting to change my opinion. He just keeps on hoisting gaudy numbers every week and he did it again when the rushing attack was absent.

His completion percentage is not quite in the realm of Brady and Manning, but I think he's seen more dropped passes. His % is also pulled down by some earlier season performances. The past three weeks he's been out of this world.

Definitely a great pickup by Savage. I never expected him to perform like this.

He's got great height, a great arm, and the potential to get better.

How much of Anderson's success has to do with Chudzinski actually bringing a REAL offense to the North Coast? He's definitely making use of Anderson's skills.

The Browns will eventually have to deal with the QB situation. If the do keep Anderson then they'll either have to trade him in the future or trade Quinn. Until that time, it would be nice to have both players on the roster. I still believe that Brady Quinn can be great at the position, but I believe the same in Derek Anderson. How long has it been since the Browns have been able to say that?

I'm sold. I officially recant my "trade Anderson" position. A good team nowadays really needs two good QBs. We just need to spend $$ on defense and free agency and focus the draft on the defensive side of the ball.
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Unread postby Hi Oktane » Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:16 pm

Swerb wrote:The kid has a cannon. And is throwing darts. The Browns rushed for like 50 yards today.

DA is this offense right now. We've had all these skill guys before playing with good pass protection in spots. He is the straw that is stirring the drink, and anyone that can't see that ... I can't help you.


PLUS...I heard deserved props being given to the O Line for not allowing a sack to the NFL's 4th best at bagging QB's. But, if you watched the game, you KNOW Charlie would have been on his ass no fewer than 5 times today. The O-Line was great, but DA's lightning-quick release and escapability had much to do with keeping his digs clean today. It's ludicrous to suggest that the O could do any better with anyone else back there other than DA. Give kid his props, and keep him behind center until he proves it's a fluke...I"ve seen enough to believe that it's not. Trading DA? Crazy talk.
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Unread postby pup » Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:52 pm

I think everyone needs to step back and slow down for 1 minute.

OK. Ready. Go.

I don't think anyone is saying trade DA now. I don't even think there is a whole lot of let's see what Brady can do, this year.

All anyone (at least this is my POV), is saying is this. There are too many holes left to fill to get to the NEXT level to have two chips at the QB position. If Brady isn't the pimp at the level Phil thought he was, maybe he is the piece to move. I think he would be a lot harder to move because of cap hits. That isn't happening.

Derek could do this franchise more good in a trade than he can on the field. Like stated earlier, you have no idea what this offense would look like with BQ behind center. Maybe it is a little better. Maybe it is a lot worse. How the hell are any of us supposed to know? We don't and can't.

How good would this team be with a bad ass NT and 1 bad ass ILB? If moving Derek could accomplish this, and BQ is 90% DA, the overall team would be better. Shit, with Sean Smith playing decent, you can see the improvement in the defense over TW.

None of this keeps me from sitting on the edge of my seat every Sunday, watching the Browns go bonkers on the rest of the NFL and enjoying every single minute. The decision on what to do with the QB position can and will wait.

Just one last point....

F the Steelers. Payback bitches.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:05 am

Pup, you are certifiably insane and haven't made this little sense since you called for and embraced the hiring of John Lucas as the Cavaliers head coach.

Exhibit A your honor ...

(Don't make me use exhibits B-J Pup)

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So, roughly, based on history, there is about a 10-to-15% chance of landing an absolute stud in the top five, a 10-15% chance of landing a franchise-killer, and a two-thirds chance of landing someone ranging from somewhat above to somewhat below average.
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Unread postby happybluebird » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:55 am

Image No, no, no, no, NO! You do not trade a QB that has proven he can play and lead this team. Come on guys, you've been around enough to know that you have to have Two good QBs in the NFL. We are sittin' pretty right now. If DA gets hurt we have Quinn to step in. Gotta love that. I say you keep them both, bring Quinn in only if DA gets hurt. Fix the defense in the draft and through FA. I'm still amazed that our D is as bad as it is. I never saw that coming.
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Unread postby yogi » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:43 am

If we're drawing our line in the sand on this issue (on Nov 5th) then here's mine.

Let this season play out. Hopefully we'll get some PT for Quinn in the last 8 games. We'll make a decision in the off season.

IMO, kudos must be given to DA, but...

there's also

a) a (dare I say) great OL that's giving the QB all the time in the world to read the D and make 2nd and 3rd options available. That's never happened before since the return.
b) great playmakers in KW, BE plus seasoned pros like JJ and Jamal. You can throw ball up and these guys make the play.
c) Chud's play calling.

Say what you want about DA, but you cannot deny that the above factors have a lot to do with our O success.

So shoot me, if I happen to think that Quinn would do well also....
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:16 am

Come on guys, you've been around enough to know that you have to have Two good QBs in the NFL

Can you tell me the names of the backup QBs for New England, Indianapolis, and Dallas without looking it up?
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:20 am

So, roughly, based on history, there is about a 10-to-15% chance of landing an absolute stud in the top five, a 10-15% chance of landing a franchise-killer, and a two-thirds chance of landing someone ranging from somewhat above to somewhat below average.

And what about the ratio of guys who come out of nowhere to go on to be great NFL QBs to guys who come out of nowhere to go on to be exposed as QBs who probably should have stayed there?

Tom Brady to...everyone else?
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Unread postby General » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:02 am

For the first time in my personal Browns' history we are in rarified air at QB position. I can't remember the last time that I sat watching the team fall behind without worry. Normally a 15 point deficit means blood presasure readings of 180/120, laying F-bomb carpet, and generally hating all that is. Not anymore, unreal. I don't know how to act.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:31 am

HoodooMan wrote:So, roughly, based on history, there is about a 10-to-15% chance of landing an absolute stud in the top five, a 10-15% chance of landing a franchise-killer, and a two-thirds chance of landing someone ranging from somewhat above to somewhat below average.

And what about the ratio of guys who come out of nowhere to go on to be great NFL QBs to guys who come out of nowhere to go on to be exposed as QBs who probably should have stayed there?

Tom Brady to...everyone else?

All I know is that I've seen it happen two times very recently. Kurt Warner and Tom Brady both came from obscurity to become championship winning, MVP quarterbacks.

Clearly it's a little premature to start to think that way with DA. But talking about trading DA? Getting Quinn series? Come on. I know you make a living off the contrarion view point, but you're making absolutely no sense here.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:37 am

I am not in the get Quinn some series clan. This is DA's team, for the rest of 2007. But IF someone comes calling, and you can get an arm, leg and first born for him, I am confident in Quinn, in 2008.


Not many teams win with the #32 defense. More aged retreaded vets on the DL is not going to help you improve on that number. They need some youth. Some piss and vinegar. The only way that is happening is through the draft. If DA gets you some picks that let's that happen, you gotta take your shot.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:49 am

Pup, at least you have sleep deprivation to blame for that take. |-)
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Unread postby jfiling » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:52 am

I'm confused.

Is there actually any discussion of trading DA right now? Because the trading deadline was weeks ago.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:56 am

The this year stuff is more about getting Quinn some reps.
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:04 am

Pup wrote:I am not in the get Quinn some series clan. This is DA's team, for the rest of 2007. But IF someone comes calling, and you can get an arm, leg and first born for him, I am confident in Quinn, in 2008.


Not many teams win with the #32 defense. More aged retreaded vets on the DL is not going to help you improve on that number. They need some youth. Some piss and vinegar. The only way that is happening is through the draft. If DA gets you some picks that let's that happen, you gotta take your shot.


Couldn't Quinn potentially net you the same in picks/players if you trade him?

Maybe our focus is on trading the wrong guy, and that in the offseason we consider trading QUinn and not DA (I am not advocating this, just sayin).
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Unread postby hermanfontenot » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:23 am

Look, I was a Quinn guy. I wanted him at #3, and I wanted him, preferably, to be the opening-day starter. And I have not been a Derek Anderson fan. I never thought he would make it in this league based on the ball-security issues he had at Oregon State.

But... at this point, trading DA, with what he's given this team, is crazy talk. The guy is huge, he can make every single throw and then some- with all due respect to Brady Quinn, there's no way he has a better arm than Derek- he gets the ball out with Marino-like speed, and nothing ever rattles him.

Right now, Derek Anderson looks like a franchise quarterback. Not a place-setter, not a guy who tides us over until the first-round cavalry arrives a la Jon Kitna, but a franchise quarterback. And you don't trade franchise quarterbacks. I don't care how many defensive linemen we need.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:36 am

Consigliere wrote:
Pup wrote:I am not in the get Quinn some series clan. This is DA's team, for the rest of 2007. But IF someone comes calling, and you can get an arm, leg and first born for him, I am confident in Quinn, in 2008.


Not many teams win with the #32 defense. More aged retreaded vets on the DL is not going to help you improve on that number. They need some youth. Some piss and vinegar. The only way that is happening is through the draft. If DA gets you some picks that let's that happen, you gotta take your shot.


Couldn't Quinn potentially net you the same in picks/players if you trade him?

Maybe our focus is on trading the wrong guy, and that in the offseason we consider trading QUinn and not DA (I am not advocating this, just sayin).


The cap hit would be too much to trade Brady.


In the cap era of the NFL, you have to be very fortunate to keep 2 quality QB's. One of them will have to go, or the defense will continue to be #32 in the league. That ain't gonna cut it.

If nobody offers an "extreme" package for DA, then keep him and try to figure out what to do with Quinn. I just think with the way the QB position is in the NFL, someone will pay a high price for DA.

It will be a very difficult decision. And the result will be what lingers on Phil Savage's tombstone one day.
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:37 am

We've got two models to choose from; the Drew Brees/Philip Rivers model and the Michael Vick/Matt Schaub model.

The Chargers gave up on Brees and drafted Rivers with a high first round pick. Then Brees came out of nowhere to have a Pro Bowl season, much like Anderson is doing now (except he won't be in the PB since Brady and Manning and Young are in the same conference). The Chargers traded Brees for a 1st round pick and Rivers took over at QB.

In Atlanta, the Falcons took the opposite approach, staying with Vick and trading the young, unproven guy, Matt Schaub, who had been in the league three years and played well in a few short stints. He was seen as a guy with starter's talent and a nice upside, so the Texans gave up a 2nd round pick for him.

So do we go with the Chargers model and trade DA or the Falcons model and trade Quinn?

My choice at this point would be to sign DA to a long term deal at the end of this season, with the idea being that he is our franchise QB. The clincher for me was the way he led the team to wins after trailing by 14 and 15 points the last two weeks. He's got the talent, but now he's shown the ability to come through when the game is on the line.

Then I would trade Quinn after the 2009 season. By then he will have had an opportunity to play a few times, hopefully in blowouts, and show what he can do, much like Schaub did in Atlanta. After 2009 his cap hit will be much lower than it is now and we should be able to get a first round pick for him. If we can get that first round pick after this season I might do it. There are some teams that are desparate for a young franchise QB that won't get one in this year's draft, and we should take advantage if we can, assuming the cap hit isn't prohibitive.

Like certain people have said, we have no chance of going anywhere in the playoffs with this defense. Seattle and the Rams both have weak offenses and they walked all over our defense. The Rams came in averaging 11ppg and rolled up 393 yards. The Seahawks got 30 points on us after scoring only 13 TD's in their first seven games.

It's a no-brainer; we have to trade our excess QB talent for defense. The question is which one we trade. DA is only going to get better. He only has 10 career starts and he's putting up 30 ppg. I'd stick with him.
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Unread postby alexp » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:04 am

The only reason people are even talking about trading DA is because they have the deep inner fear that we all do - that hes going to revert back to sucktitude. Truth be told though, what you see is what you get with Derek. The guy has a cannon, huge stones and a short memory. That last one is for better or worse, as we have seen him throw some truly braindead passes. The question isn't even a physical one. DA has the tools to be a high level NFL QB.

The question is, does Quinn have the same makeup? If we put him in, even with his talent level, when he makes a mistake is he gonna stroll back on the field and gun it down the other teams throat like DA has been doing? Is he gonna crack under the pressure of being a franchise QB? Those are the intangibles you cant account for, and thats why you cant take a change putting him in if DA is still playing at a high level.

Even the suggestion of doing so is silly. This is that mans team to lose.
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Unread postby schlobbin31 » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:14 am

Prosecutor wrote:We've got two models to choose from; the Drew Brees/Philip Rivers model and the Michael Vick/Matt Schaub model.

The Chargers gave up on Brees and drafted Rivers with a high first round pick. Then Brees came out of nowhere to have a Pro Bowl season, much like Anderson is doing now (except he won't be in the PB since Brady and Manning and Young are in the same conference). The Chargers traded Brees for a 1st round pick and Rivers took over at QB.

In Atlanta, the Falcons took the opposite approach, staying with Vick and trading the young, unproven guy, Matt Schaub, who had been in the league three years and played well in a few short stints. He was seen as a guy with starter's talent and a nice upside, so the Texans gave up a 2nd round pick for him.

So do we go with the Chargers model and trade DA or the Falcons model and trade Quinn?

My choice at this point would be to sign DA to a long term deal at the end of this season, with the idea being that he is our franchise QB. The clincher for me was the way he led the team to wins after trailing by 14 and 15 points the last two weeks. He's got the talent, but now he's shown the ability to come through when the game is on the line.

Then I would trade Quinn after the 2009 season. By then he will have had an opportunity to play a few times, hopefully in blowouts, and show what he can do, much like Schaub did in Atlanta. After 2009 his cap hit will be much lower than it is now and we should be able to get a first round pick for him. If we can get that first round pick after this season I might do it. There are some teams that are desparate for a young franchise QB that won't get one in this year's draft, and we should take advantage if we can, assuming the cap hit isn't prohibitive.

Like certain people have said, we have no chance of going anywhere in the playoffs with this defense. Seattle and the Rams both have weak offenses and they walked all over our defense. The Rams came in averaging 11ppg and rolled up 393 yards. The Seahawks got 30 points on us after scoring only 13 TD's in their first seven games.

It's a no-brainer; we have to trade our excess QB talent for defense. The question is which one we trade. DA is only going to get better. He only has 10 career starts and he's putting up 30 ppg. I'd stick with him.


Nice post, Pros. I believe though that SD let Brees walk for nothing because of the concerns with his shoulder. Also, if Young makes the Pro Bowl this year then it is officially a joke. The guy has been horrible.
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:30 am

Pup wrote:The cap hit would be too much to trade Brady.


I dunno. He has a very tradeable deal.....and I believe the cap hit would only be around $4-5M....which is not crippling.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:55 am

Consigliere wrote:
Pup wrote:The cap hit would be too much to trade Brady.


I dunno. He has a very tradeable deal.....and I believe the cap hit would only be around $4-5M....which is not crippling.


Doesn't his entire signing bonus get dumped onto next year's cap if he is traded?

For that matter, what was his signing bonus?
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:39 pm

Pup wrote:Doesn't his entire signing bonus get dumped onto next year's cap if he is traded?

For that matter, what was his signing bonus?


Yes. I believe it was $7M....of which we already had roughly$1.5-2M of it applied to this year's cap. The remainder, around $5M, would go against the 2008 cap if traded.
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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:59 pm

Consigliere wrote:
Pup wrote:The cap hit would be too much to trade Brady.


I dunno. He has a very tradeable deal.....and I believe the cap hit would only be around $4-5M....which is not crippling.


A Paltry 7.5 million bonus half of which which has been accounted for , plus incentives which he'll never see as long as Derek keeps tossing the pill like a casino Black jack dealer.

This whole it will cost to much to trade Lady quinn stoopidity is a figment of your overactive imagination.

Pup get a clue ,

When Warner and Tom Brady blew up , did either of those teams worry one fuckin minute about their more highly paid contracted would be starters sitting on the bench.

Get your head outta fantasy Football and madden 2008 and smell that real world coffee.

5-3 and in the hunt capable of spotting teams leads and then dragging them down like wolves overtaking escaping prey, all becauase we have a QB who steps it up a notch in the clutch and the team steps up accordingly to his call.



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Unread postby Guest » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:29 pm

Some of this may be outside of the control of Phil.

DA is a restricted free agent this year.

Which means that the Browns can easily keep any team from having him next year, because anyone thinking that the Browns won't offer the high tender is smoking some shit that kills your entire brain.

If DA thinks that he'll eventually have to give up his starting position to BQ, you really think he's going to want to stick around with that sword hanging over his head for the next five years?

Again...here is the worst case scenario...

DA gets held here due to the RSA status, doesn't sign a contract extension, and walks away as an unrestricted free agent after next season...

To Baltimore.

You think DA's agent isn't looking at the contract Romo just signed, and isn't salivating over what he could get from any QB starved team right now?

This defense is going to keep the Browns out of the playoffs this year...unless a bunch of other teams keep screwing up...and then the Browns might have an ugly one-and-done against San Diego.

If Phil could pull off some magic and make DA happy (assuming it is the QB and not the system)...great...I'm done being a DA hata...they kid has me in awe of a lot of his game right now.

But if the choices come down to improving the Browns via a trade, or watching DA go to the team of his choice in 2009, and all we get back is a 6th round compensatory pick?

(Besides...we still haven't looked at the possibility that DA may equal Scott Mitchell to the Lions).
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Unread postby Nicastro13 » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:30 pm

The best part about this whole issue is there is none, As mentioned the trade deadline for THIS year is gone, so we have the remaining season to put a full argument together for DA. He has progresively gotten better each week and it is something of greater discussion for this OFF season. BUT we do need alot of help on the other side of the ball and I doubt we sign Anderson Long Term and keep both he and Brady. So a decision will be made as to the fate of one of them. There is no way this franchise can afford to do nothing and let Anderson walk after next year and get nothing in return and I am sure that Phil knows this. SO lets enjoy the great football we got now and argue about this later.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:31 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Consigliere wrote:
Pup wrote:The cap hit would be too much to trade Brady.


I dunno. He has a very tradeable deal.....and I believe the cap hit would only be around $4-5M....which is not crippling.


A Paltry 7.5 million bonus half of which which has been accounted for , plus incentives which he'll never see as long as Derek keeps tossing the pill like a casino Black jack dealer.

This whole it will cost to much to trade Lady quinn stoopidity is a figment of your overactive imagination.

Pup get a clue ,

When Warner and Tom Brady blew up , did either of those teams worry one fuckin minute about their more highly paid contracted would be starters sitting on the bench.

Get your head outta fantasy Football and madden 2008 and smell that real world coffee.

5-3 and in the hunt capable of spotting teams leads and then dragging them down like wolves overtaking escaping prey, all becauase we have a QB who steps it up a notch in the clutch and the team steps up accordingly to his call.



SoulDawg


Here is my clue. When the Rams went to Warner, Trent Green was out for the year. Warner won the MVP, and they traded Trent Green. When Brady took over in New England, Drew Bledsoe was hurt.

In both of those cases, they KNEW what they had in the Green/Bledsoe. Not much. In this case, you have no idea what you have in Quinn.

This team still needs help. On the defensive side of the ball. If they can fill those without moving one of the QB's, gravy. That will be tough though.

With the cap hit being relatively low, then move Quinn. I wasn't sure what his cap number would be. Now that I know, he is more moveable.

I ain't taking sides. DA has been great. You seem to think I have an Anti-Anderson mind set. Not at all. I just think you will get more in a DA trade after the season, and one of them is going to go.

If the Browns are capable of having two QB's with big contracts, along with 4 offensive linemen making huge amounts, and find a way to field a top 15 defense, I am all for it.
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Unread postby Tree » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:56 pm

Swerb wrote:Even considering dealing this guy right now is insanity. Even talking about trading him in the off-season is nuts.

DA ... I just can't process what I am seeing from this kid. A laser arm. Frightening accuracy.

I've never felt more confident with any other QB at the helm. Ever.

Six weeks ago, when we got down, DA looked more confused than one of the girls on "Deal Or No Deal" when they open a case with a middle dollar amount.

Now? They get down, and he's got this look like "thats all you got chumps ... get the hell outta my way".

I can't believe I'm saying this. Derek Anderson is one of the best quarterbacks on the planet Earth right now. He's on pace to destroy many of the offensive records for this very proud franchise.

Brady Quinn should absolutely be an afterthought to all Browns fans right now. Not just for this year, but for next year also.


Swerb, don't get me wrong, but when you have an offensive line like that and weapons like that, you have time to get the ball to those weapons. I am not saying give DA the heave ho, but one has to wonder what you could get for him, and we should entertain that thought leaving no stone unturned in our efforts to improve this team.

You have to at least consider it. If DA gets tendered, I think he might be worth a 1st and a 3rd possibly as far as my understanding goes. We gave up our first next year for Quinn, and there is no doubt that Quinn will eventually be given the reigns to this team. Maybe not till 2009, but it's going to eventually happen.

Knowing that, one should at least not be afraid to investigate such opportunities. It's a valid question even though it may seem like an unlikely question given how well DA has played recently.
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Unread postby mevanchan » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:31 pm

I've seen QB controversies before, both in Cleveland and out, and they hardly ever end well...hell, we had one about 2 months ago and got extremely lucky...considering our head coach did everything he could to screw the situation up...

Now, here's my 2 pennies:

Quinn has the potential to do more with this team and I would argue that he has the potential to do more for the city of Cleveland than any athlete we've ever had, even LBJ. If he can become a star he will be absolutely huge (I don't particularly like Notre Dame, but with it comes a lot of publicity).

However, as Browns fans - we all know how difficult it is to find a good-to-great Quarterback in the NFL. We have one playing and succeeding right now. Why risk making a change? I like DA...he's young, the team is responding to him, their scoring points, he's improving every game...what has he done to get himself traded or benched?

The bottom line is (and everyone is in agreement here) that DA should keep playing through the end of the season...but next year is a different story. Eventually, Quinn is going to get restless, and then we have to make a decision...and forgive me if I don't have a whole lot of faith in this organization to make the right one.
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Unread postby pod2dawg » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:58 pm

A funny thing happened 8 games into the BQ developmental throw away season....Charlie flew West, no sig. injuries ( more) and the o-line showed up, & DA got BIG. .....................Boys cool it down a bit, I'm thrilled and eating crow !!! Go DA !!! But, WAIT till he's been around the league a year and these psychotic DC's gameplan his every tendency and he sees his favorite routes jumped more than the road from Baghdad to the "international" airport. A dose of reality is waiting for us next week @ Heinz Field were the sewers conflow.

We need two studs at QB , we'll sort it out while looking to add 8 D-freaks or so and return to our rightful place atop the football world.

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Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:10 pm

Neither of those two guys are going anywhere in the immediate future (through next season). You're a blind side hit away from needing the Kid to step in play and QB depth is something to protect and nurture, not gamble away.

This team is in an enviable position defensively. That's right. I said 'enviable'.
That being, any improvement whatsoever on the front seven makes your entire defense exponentially better. And they can find that help through free agency and with the draft picks they have. They'll not likely completely remake the front seven in one offseason, but they'll improve it next year simply because there is no way humanly possible it can be worse.

I'm more concerned whether Lewis is re-signed right now. He's a leader and a grinder and he's shown a lot of life in those legs in gaining the tough yards. Not sure there's anyone in the pipeline to replace him and give you what he's brought this season.

The o-line has been critical, but Lewis is responsible for hammering out a couple yards per carry at times on his own.
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Unread postby sal09 » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:21 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Then Brees came out of nowhere to have a Pro Bowl season, much like Anderson is doing now (except he won't be in the PB since Brady and Manning and Young are in the same conference).


Had to comment on this. If Vince Young is in the Pro Bowl over Damon Huard it would be a joke. He is one of the worst QB's in football. Vince Young doesn't just win, the Titans D just wins despite him.
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:07 pm

All I know is that I've seen it happen two times very recently. Kurt Warner and Tom Brady both came from obscurity to become championship winning, MVP quarterbacks.

Then we're going to have a difficult time agreeing here, because IMO Kurt Warner is the perfect example of a system making a guy and not the other way around. HOF LT, RB, and (probably) WR surrounding him, he put up big numbers (Trent Green did too while KW was injured), but when removed from that nuturing environment he looked like a guy who spent some time out of football bagging groceries.

I know you make a living off the contrarion view point, but you're making absolutely no sense here.

C'mon, the contrarion label is BS. There have been plenty of times when I've joined the Joe Fan Mob. But what's going on with tJFM & DA is typical. We're winning so all the questions a reasonable outsider would ask about the situation go out the window in a blur of Rah-Rah-My-Ears-Are-Plugged-Whadja-Say.

If you're not willing to consider the possibility of trading DA or the idea of giving BQ a look, then IMO you're choosing to take a short-sighted view of the situation. At the present moment we have an excess of resources at the QB position--the idea of keeping both of these guys is silly, I'm living in the early 90s talk. In a few months, Phil is going to be forced to decide between taking advantage of that excess (an opportunity that expires after this offseason) and taking his time to decide which QB is the right man for the job. The latter of those two is an awful waste, especially when you consider our needs on the defensive side of the ball, and it doesn't have to happen.

If nothing else, the fact that you're in agreement with SD74 on a QB issue should cause you to take a step back and reconsider what's in play.
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:27 pm

I'm more concerned whether Lewis is re-signed right now. He's a leader and a grinder and he's shown a lot of life in those legs in gaining the tough yards. Not sure there's anyone in the pipeline to replace him and give you what he's brought this season.

The o-line has been critical, but Lewis is responsible for hammering out a couple yards per carry at times on his own.


Take away his huge game against the pitiful Bengal defense and he's averaging 3.2 ypc. The years have taken their toll and although he's still a decent back, he's no longer an impact player. I think Jason Wright could have scored those TD's against the Seahawks. Lewis walked in untouched on a couple of them.

That's another reason we need to trade a QB. We not only need an influx of talent on the front seven, we need a franchise running back. Maybe we get our man in Michael Turner of the Chargers, but if not we need to draft somebody, and we're short on picks next year.

Quinn cost us a 1st and a 2nd round pick. We can't afford to waste those two high picks on a backup QB who holds the clipboard for the next five years. He has to start or be traded. The guy lit it up in preseason and the Insiders say the Browns are confident he could start right now. If DA is our QB of the present and future, we need to get those picks back. We already wasted too many picks on guys like Sowells, Wilson, and Perkins.

If Quinn was in the draft this year he would probably be the highest rated QB and a possible top five pick. It will be interesting to see what offers the Browns get for him after the season. Since he was the #22 pick he didn't get a huge signing bonus so the cap hit won't be a deal breaker, unless we get a top ten pick for him, in which case we have to take the hit on Quinn's contract and also pay a top ten bonus, which I'm not sure is doable in the same year.

Anderson has all the physical tools and more importantly has the ability to stay cool and execute on game winning drives. He's still improving, which is scary. Dropped passes don't bother him, playing from behind doesn't bother him, and 3rd-and-long doesn't bother him. His confidence is growing every week. I think the Steelers will take him down a peg, but so far I haven't seen anything not to like.
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Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:44 pm

Take away his huge game against the pitiful Bengal defense and he's averaging 3.2 ypc. The years have taken their toll and although he's still a decent back, he's no longer an impact player. I think Jason Wright could have scored those TD's against the Seahawks. Lewis walked in untouched on a couple of them.


Ahhh.... I hadn't heard Butch Davis in a while. Nice to hear the old "If you take away the three long TD runs then we held him to.... and they only score....points.

While I understand the point, I have to assume if they thought Wright could have been successful in the role they wouldn't have signed Lewis and handed him the job to begin with. And I don't think you can discount the fact that Lewis hits holes very quickly and can still gain yards if nothing is there. That can account for not being touched on that 1 or 2 yard drive too. I'm not sure Wright has the experience or the leg drive that Lewis brings to the table though I really like him in space.

Lewis brings a different style than Wright offers. He's a grinder and a banger and he takes a toll on the defense. I like Wright. I think he has a place. But I'm not convinced it's as an everydown back just yet.
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Re: Anybody want to talk about trading Andrson now

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:27 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:Its his team fellas .

The players are playing for him .

He is the man .

We've won three in a row and we're 5-2 when he's at the helm .

The podium is now open for the fuckin fool who wants to make the case to deal this kid for picks and beers.




SoulDawg


Yes. Phil will do a Shaub. He'll engineer a sign n trade or you just take your # 1 after you tender him as a RFA.

His value will be sky - high. We finally have the karma on our side.

I think they'll get that 1st round pick toshore up the D.

Quinn is the future of the franchise, SD. Phil bet the pharm on him.

I ain't in luv w/ him or pimpin' him. I'm just breakin' down reality 4 U. I don't do much of the "I think" thing, I try to read the Browns and what Phil will do. Holla all you want. I'm just telling you the sun rises from the east homie. Phil is a balance guy. He has few draft resources and the D is a mess. He'll use the resources at his disposal and from what I see he believes in BQ. He told you the goal for the season in week two. Unlike us fans, Phil doesn't swing back & frth w/ the fotunes week by week.
Last edited by jb on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:30 am

An offense with a former #3 overall WR, #6 overall TE, #3 overall LT, #5 overall RB, and a Pro Bowl-caliber LG, with all of them playing up to their potential, run by a quality OC...should look like this.


Rack it.


And you just can't know what responsibility DA has for what's going on until you see someone else under center.


Well, actually, we did see someone else under center. Lord - how bad was Charlie Frye?
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Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:32 am

HoodooMan wrote:So, roughly, based on history, there is about a 10-to-15% chance of landing an absolute stud in the top five, a 10-15% chance of landing a franchise-killer, and a two-thirds chance of landing someone ranging from somewhat above to somewhat below average.

And what about the ratio of guys who come out of nowhere to go on to be great NFL QBs to guys who come out of nowhere to go on to be exposed as QBs who probably should have stayed there?

Tom Brady to...everyone else?


Romo.
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