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Vrabel Leaves for Texans

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Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:17 pm

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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby furls » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:00 pm

Only defensive coach worth a shit. Bummer.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby Love child of shawn kemp » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:09 am

My son went to one of the OSU summer football camps and vrabel could not have been a bigger asshole if he tried. At the end of camp with parents all circled around a 1 on 1 pass rush drill he was calling this kid dog shit and telling them to get out of his sight. I don't know if the kid he was dogging on was somebody they were looking at but it was very uncomfortable and seemed uncalled for at a summer camp. At a team practice ok but not in that setting.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:20 am

With how bad this defense has been it doesn't sound like we lost all that much.

:shrug

But either way I think most "experts" always saw Vrabel moving to the NFL anyway.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:55 am

Let's them move away from Luke, which is nice.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby neoleo » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:57 am

I like Vrabel from his days as a player, and he was regarded as a big time recruiter in his short stay, but I don't think we're losing much when it comes to on-field coaching. With the way the D has played the past few years, I'm ok with cleaning house on that side of the ball. One big critisism of Vrabel was one that I agree with, he failed to rotate the D Line (despite it being the deepest position by far on the D). He had the NFL "the best players play" mentality and that wore the D Line down IMO. It was highlighted in the last three games, but it happened at other times throughout the season as well.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:38 am

Just a layman's opinion but the DL, end of the day, was the best part of that defense. Could it have been better? Probably. What can't. But there was development and production from Spence and Bosa and others. I can't say that about the LBs and DBs at all.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby furls » Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:28 pm

neoleo wrote:I like Vrabel from his days as a player, and he was regarded as a big time recruiter in his short stay, but I don't think we're losing much when it comes to on-field coaching. With the way the D has played the past few years, I'm ok with cleaning house on that side of the ball. One big critisism of Vrabel was one that I agree with, he failed to rotate the D Line (despite it being the deepest position by far on the D). He had the NFL "the best players play" mentality and that wore the D Line down IMO. It was highlighted in the last three games, but it happened at other times throughout the season as well.


All great points.

Peek's points were great as well, and that is the struggle with Vrabel. He is obviously a good coach, but still hasn't picked up on some of the differences between the 2 games. There definitely should've been more rotation on the DL, especially after what we saw from Marcus in the Orange Bowl (How has that guy not seen a significant number of snaps this year?). NCAA players are not quite ready physically (in general) to play that many snaps.

The uptempo thing is a lot more widespread in the NCAA. It is not unusual to see teams run 80-90 snaps in a game on offense.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:56 am

All over the web that PSU DL coach Larry Johnson to take Vrabel's old spot. Don't know if it's true or not. I guess after a couple of decades Johnson decided " if you can't beat'em, join'em ". I guess he must have also been pretty pissed-off about getting passed-over for the HC position at PSU.

I'm sure the scUM'ers and others will be quick to point out that Johnson was on the PSU staff at the same time as Sundusky. What did he know, guilt by association and that sort of thing.

Any new/local news on what is going on with the rest of the OSU defensive coaching staff? Seems like Luke is going to stay??
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:35 am

Yes, Pete Thamel of SI (who is an Urban Meyer confidant) reported they are "close" to hiring LJ. He was reportedly offered a job on Franklin's staff at PSU, but was apparently ticked at not getting consideration for the HC job, or maybe just felt dissed in some other way. Joining Meyer is a real thumb in the eye for Penn State. The fans loved the guy, and they have to be in meltdown mode over losing him to Ohio State.

OSU fans have bitched for years about rumored negative recruiting tactics that he used against OSU and others, but no one can deny that he is a GREAT recruiter and one of the best DL coaches in the business. He has coached many, many defensive linemen into the NFL, from Courtney Brown to Tamba Hali to Jimmy Kennedy to Devon Still, etc.

He also addresses the need to hire at least one minority assistant, something that had been dictated from above, by all reports. After having lost Withers, Haynes and Hazell over the last couple years, OSU was down to only one minority on the staff (Stan Drayton - RB's) and so this hire may allow Meyer to broaden the search for a DC...or co-DC maybe to include non-minorities.

At least I hope this doesn't change the plan to make a "home run" hire to right the ship on defense. LJ would not be considered DC material, I don't think. There is another hire to be made, and hopefully it will be someone who can be seen as the answer to the defensive problems...and also probably to coach DB's.

It also means that if LJ wants to get (2014 PSU commit) Thomas Holley, the 5-star defensive tackle, he will be permitted to go after him, even though OSU was said to have cooled on Holley after recruiting him aggressively at first. Holley's relationship with PSU was said to be entirely with LJ, and Holley's mom has already said this changes everything in terms of his interest in Penn State.

Even if the guy was not a great recruiter and an excellent coach, many OSU fans would be satisfied that hiring him will piss off Penn Staters in a big way...but the people who have become convinced that he's a slimeball will have to get used to the fact that now he's OUR slimeball. Most people I'm reading this morning are saying it's a GREAT hire for Meyer.

IMO, the more important hire is the next one....the one that will tell us if we need to go through another season with Luke at DC, or if they will make a big move to fix the defense.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:51 am

Tim May (Dispatch) tweet this a.m.

"As of earlier this morning, high-level OSU source told me Larry Johnson acquisition still classified a maybe, not final."
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:12 pm

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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:47 pm

Wow! It's Chris Ash for (co) DC....stolen from Bret Bielema at Arkansas. Was at Wisconsin as DC under Bert, and followed him to Fayettville.

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2014/01/3 ... th-larry-j

Ash also worked with Tom Herman at Iowa State back in the day, and I recall Herman being asked last year who gave his offense the most trouble in the 2012 season. He responded without hesitation that it was Ash's Badgers, who completely shut down Braxton Miller and the OSU rushing game in that game when the Buckeyes prevailed in OT.

Make no mistake...the "Co-DC" title is only so as not to embarrass Luke Fickell with a demotion. Ash will be calling the shots.

Same 11W piece says the LJ deal is now finalized.

Taken in the aggregate, this is a better outcome than I could have hoped for.

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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby jclvd_23 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:10 pm

Agree with you Dan......excellent couple of hires here for Ohio State. Pretty much unanimous praise from those in the business I trust.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby furls » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:40 am

I am not going to pretend to know much about Ash. The general sentiment seems to be pretty positive. I was expecting more of a nationally known "homerun" hire, but I am confident Meyer will bring in the right guy. This hire has Tom Herman written all over it since the two probably overlapped at Iowa State and Herman made those comments about Wisco's D.

Speaking of Herman, this hire actually reminds me of Herman. I was a little bummed that Meyer didn't land a big name when he brought in his OC, but the sentiment on Herman was that he was a future star in coaching. So far, he has looked like one of the hottest HC candidates on the staff and the O has generally been good.

As long as this begins the end of the Fickell era at OSU, I am good with it. Anything will be better.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby neoleo » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:37 pm

I've seen a lot of things, including Herman's quotes about Ash from last off-season, that point to him being in the "bend-but-don't-break" mindset. Lot's of basic fronts, 7-10 yard cushions on the outside, etc. Teams with good/great QB's had success against his Wisconsin teams, despite him having some pretty good overall stats there.

Seems like a solid hire, just the exact opposite of what I was hoping for since he seems similar to Fickell in scheme. I guess if he can get the secondary on the same page as the front 7, and teach everybody how to actually tackle, it will be great progress, even if still playing a similar scheme.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby neoleo » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:39 pm

Oh, and I absolutely love the LJ hire. Vrabel's my guy from way back, but I would have traded Vrabel for LJ straight up if you gave me the chance. Sure he's 61, but Vrabel proved how long he was in it for. LJ will be here for at least a few years, and probably until he decides to retire.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby furls » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:22 pm

neoleo wrote:I've seen a lot of things, including Herman's quotes about Ash from last off-season, that point to him being in the "bend-but-don't-break" mindset. Lot's of basic fronts, 7-10 yard cushions on the outside, etc. Teams with good/great QB's had success against his Wisconsin teams, despite him having some pretty good overall stats there.

Seems like a solid hire, just the exact opposite of what I was hoping for since he seems similar to Fickell in scheme. I guess if he can get the secondary on the same page as the front 7, and teach everybody how to actually tackle, it will be great progress, even if still playing a similar scheme.


Here is a moment when I pat myself on the back:

I said way back this year, like the Buffalo game that the defense did not seem well coordinated. That we were blitzing while giving cushions and doing all sorts of other things that made no sense. That basically, playing a big cushion or bend but don't break defense isn't necessarily a bad thing. The most important thing is that your scheme needs to be unified (for example you shouldn't blitz the boundary CB if you are starting from a cover 3 look because the middle safety is never going to make it to the outside, boundary receiver in man coverage) and match your personnel.

We watched Fickell stubbornly blitz Roby or Grant from the boundary from cover 3 looks all year. Those blitzes became an obvious read and we were scorched by scUM, MSU and Clemson because of it. We did lot's of other things that didn't make sense, like blitz while playing 10 yards off on the outside, this essentially guarantees the QBs hot read is wide open and that there are no LBs around to help with the play. The defense this year was a real shit show from a scheme perspective and Fickell should've been fired.

Fickell mismanaged the personnel terribly as well. The LB and secondary depth was paper thin to the point that Camren Williams was in the 2 deep (OMG!) yet he RS'd Mike Mitchell, Lee, Worley (LBs) and a crap ton of good prospects in the secondary. Pitt Brown is the worst safety I have ever seen at a major program (seriously), yet he it took to the Clemson game to get Bell in?

We never emphasized what we do well as a defense to help cover up our deficiencies elsewhere. How insane is this.... our secondary is the worst secondary at OSU since Earl Bruce was the HC (seriously), so we rush 3 and drop 8 to give the QB more time to pick apart the secondary. In doing so we take our best pass rusher (Spence) and make him another bad defender against the pass. I understand giving different looks to confuse the QB, but why emphasize your weaknesses?

If it was me, I would've blitzed nearly every play and played way closer on the outside. I doubt we would've given up more big plays (it would be hard to give up more than 1 million), but we would've gotten more pressure and more mistakes.

Fickell was terrible, don't let him jade you on "bend but don't break." He was running a "bend and shatter" defense.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:44 am

neoleo wrote:teach everybody how to actually tackle, it will be great progress,


This is literally all I care about. If they can get back to just being able to tackle, and better yet, actually be good at it, especially in the secondary, the team will be markedly better.

I agree with Furl's general premise, [and for christsakes even Matt Millen mentioned it on the Bowl broadcast, Matt Millen!] that a bend but don't break defense makes for passive players. But if they can teach the players to execute the most basic fundamentals well, with the type of athletes OSU can pull in, I think any scheme can work. Especially with the amount of points the offense can put up. [Fingers crossed for next year]
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby danwismar » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:04 am

I remember taking some heat in here when Roby was having a streak of bad games early in the season, for saying I thought it was a problem of scheme more than one having to do with individual ability or effort. Roby's talent level didn't change. The effed up coverage schemes confused everybody.
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Re: Vrabel Leaves for Texans

Unread postby jclvd_23 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:10 am

neoleo wrote:I've seen a lot of things, including Herman's quotes about Ash from last off-season, that point to him being in the "bend-but-don't-break" mindset. Lot's of basic fronts, 7-10 yard cushions on the outside, etc. Teams with good/great QB's had success against his Wisconsin teams, despite him having some pretty good overall stats there.

Seems like a solid hire, just the exact opposite of what I was hoping for since he seems similar to Fickell in scheme. I guess if he can get the secondary on the same page as the front 7, and teach everybody how to actually tackle, it will be great progress, even if still playing a similar scheme.


I've been seeing the opposite in regards to Ash's defensive scheme. I just read an article from Bill Greene on Scout where he spoke with 2 offensive coaches that have gone up against Ash this year.....it's a premium article, so I'll link it and summarize.

http://ohiostate.scout.com/2/1365907.html

Expect a return to the Cover 4 pressure scheme...more press from the corners, heavy safety run support, and an unpredictable 3rd down front look (4 down, 3 down, zero down).

This sounds a lot like what Michigan State has been running the last couple of years. I know they run some type of Cover 4/quarters scheme with a lot of bump and run coverage from the corners, where the safeties come up to support the run. Ash's scheme sounds very similar to me, and if it is, I'm thrilled with the hire. I can't wait to see Ross Fulton's breakdown.
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