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Marvin Lewis

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Marvin Lewis

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:51 pm

If there ever was a definition of "bet against" in the football gambling world, this chucklehead in the playoffs would be it. Anyone wanna nudge him and tell him the 2nd half started.

For this single game he'd be a candidate for MVP of the gambling season, although betting Cowboy overs and against was a gift that lasted all year long thanks to Kiffin.

Really - you guys who want a Cowher or Gruden....I understand wanting NFL experience. Logical. But careful what you wish for, cause these NFL games the last couple seasons are being decided by an inordinant amount between coaches that are coaching modern football, and the Mike Shanahan's of the league.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:11 pm

Lewis mysteriously gets a pass on his lack of success. I could at least kind of understand it if he ran a clean ship that was considered tip top, but he doesn't, nor really ever has.

Better than what we've had, sure, gonna win you something other than 9-10 regular season games, no. But hey if Cincinnati is happy with being middle of the pack forever than goody for them.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:07 pm

Lewis' run is remarkable considering the fact, as a rule, teams only allow you to be a dolt for only so long before they can you.

And Chargers, how many 3rd and 4th and 1's from the bunch formation you gonna run and fail before you change. Again, don't gotta invent anything, just copy New England. For the life of me, your back-up tight end or o-lineman blocking a player is trumped by that player being taken out of the box GUARANTEED if you go 4 wide. The genius has taught us this.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby pod2dawg » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:56 pm

Yep.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:51 am

leadpipe wrote:Lewis' run is remarkable considering the fact, as a rule, teams only allow you to be a dolt for only so long before they can you.

And Chargers, how many 3rd and 4th and 1's from the bunch formation you gonna run and fail before you change. Again, don't gotta invent anything, just copy New England. For the life of me, your back-up tight end or o-lineman blocking a player is trumped by that player being taken out of the box GUARANTEED if you go 4 wide. The genius has taught us this.


Uh, I know you know he works for Mike Brown. This explains a lot, IMO.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:51 am

nm
deleted dreaded double post
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:38 am

We haven't had a head coach with a winning record in his tenure here in 25 years. And Marty's the only one we've had since 1974.

My kingdom for a Marvin Lewis.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:06 am

HoodooMan wrote:We haven't had a head coach with a winning record in his tenure here in 25 years. And Marty's the only one we've had since 1974.

My kingdom for a Marvin Lewis.


To avoid useless argument in a forum that was created for useless argument, I will simply use these 2 words in opposition from now on.

I disagree.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:08 am

leadpipe wrote:Lewis' run is remarkable considering the fact, as a rule, teams only allow you to be a dolt for only so long before they can you.

And Chargers, how many 3rd and 4th and 1's from the bunch formation you gonna run and fail before you change. Again, don't gotta invent anything, just copy New England. For the life of me, your back-up tight end or o-lineman blocking a player is trumped by that player being taken out of the box GUARANTEED if you go 4 wide. The genius has taught us this.


SD:

How would that help Dalton going Weeden , and imitating a Peywton manning playoff choke job .

Sumbyche 's stupid play sucked the life outta that team.


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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:31 am

HoodooMan wrote:We haven't had a head coach with a winning record in his tenure here in 25 years. And Marty's the only one we've had since 1974.

My kingdom for a Marvin Lewis.


All of those rummy's - and you and I, with the same amount of playoff wins as ML.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby justmebd » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:48 am

Surprised I haven't seen more people saying this: I will lead the Browns to a sub-par record for $10 million, hell I'll do it for $5 million. Why hire Marvin Lewis?
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:33 am

leadpipe wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:We haven't had a head coach with a winning record in his tenure here in 25 years. And Marty's the only one we've had since 1974.

My kingdom for a Marvin Lewis.


All of those rummy's - and you and I, with the same amount of playoff wins as ML.


I'm not saying he's HOF material or anything, but he took a franchise that was mired in suck as badly as ours is now and...

8-8
8-8
11-5
8-8
7-9
4-11-1
10-6
4-12
9-7
10-6
11-5

...pulled that^ off.

What % chance would you put on our next HC bettering Marvin's first 4/5 years over the course of his first contract? What % chance would you put on however many HCs we have over the next 11 seasons bettering Marvin's first 11?

I'm thinking low single digits for both.

(A quickish run through Pro Football Reference informs me that Marvin's 90.5 regular season wins puts the Bengals at 16th in the NFL over that time period. Not worst to first, exactly, but worst to middlest is a hell of a lot better than worst to still worst, IMO. Especially considering he shared the division with two of the top 5 teams in football over that span.)
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby googleeph2 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:52 pm

leadpipe wrote:Lewis' run is remarkable considering the fact, as a rule, teams only allow you to be a dolt for only so long before they can you.


That kind of stability/stubborness helps define Mike Brown. That team suffered through a lot of bad head coaching years from Dick LeBeau, Bruce Coslet and Dave Shula. 5 yrs with Shula, who very early on was obviously not suited to be a HC.

As most know, Mike Brown is a different animal. Sure, he used the CLeveland team vacancy as leverage to get his stadium. And he is all about the one family business- the Bengals, and will discard local goodwill without hesitation if he can point to a contractual reason to extract stuff from the community.

But based on an interview I read at the time, I really think he was ready to move back to Cleveland. Sure, the move would have been attractive to him business-wise, but also personally. He reminded that such a move was something his father did, successfully. I also seem to recall hearing some in the league wanted to see him move there at the time.

Anyway, Marvin Lewis has tremendous job security, under an owner-GM who only allows his family to make personnel decisions.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:01 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:We haven't had a head coach with a winning record in his tenure here in 25 years. And Marty's the only one we've had since 1974.

My kingdom for a Marvin Lewis.


All of those rummy's - and you and I, with the same amount of playoff wins as ML.


I'm not saying he's HOF material or anything, but he took a franchise that was mired in suck as badly as ours is now and...

8-8
8-8
11-5
8-8
7-9
4-11-1
10-6
4-12
9-7
10-6
11-5

...pulled that^ off.

What % chance would you put on our next HC bettering Marvin's first 4/5 years over the course of his first contract? What % chance would you put on however many HCs we have over the next 11 seasons bettering Marvin's first 11?

I'm thinking low single digits for both.

(A quickish run through Pro Football Reference informs me that Marvin's 90.5 regular season wins puts the Bengals at 16th in the NFL over that time period. Not worst to first, exactly, but worst to middlest is a hell of a lot better than worst to still worst, IMO. Especially considering he shared the division with two of the top 5 teams in football over that span.)


Within the NFL's structure, if you can't take a horrible team to somewhere in the middle, you'd have to be a GDmned idiot.

Sure, compare Marvin Lewis' run of the past 14 years to the Browns, and it looks good. As would Emmanual Lewis' run of the last 14. Being better than a total joke is nothing to hang your hat on.

In the end, all subjective I suppose, but my big issue is that's he's the exact same coach he was a dozen years ago, and the game is moving ahead without him.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:13 pm

leadpipe wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:We haven't had a head coach with a winning record in his tenure here in 25 years. And Marty's the only one we've had since 1974.

My kingdom for a Marvin Lewis.


All of those rummy's - and you and I, with the same amount of playoff wins as ML.


I'm not saying he's HOF material or anything, but he took a franchise that was mired in suck as badly as ours is now and...

8-8
8-8
11-5
8-8
7-9
4-11-1
10-6
4-12
9-7
10-6
11-5

...pulled that^ off.

What % chance would you put on our next HC bettering Marvin's first 4/5 years over the course of his first contract? What % chance would you put on however many HCs we have over the next 11 seasons bettering Marvin's first 11?

I'm thinking low single digits for both.

(A quickish run through Pro Football Reference informs me that Marvin's 90.5 regular season wins puts the Bengals at 16th in the NFL over that time period. Not worst to first, exactly, but worst to middlest is a hell of a lot better than worst to still worst, IMO. Especially considering he shared the division with two of the top 5 teams in football over that span.)


Within the NFL's structure, if you can't take a horrible team to somewhere in the middle, you'd have to be a GDmned idiot.

Sure, compare Marvin Lewis' run of the past 14 years to the Browns, and it looks good. As would Emmanual Lewis' run of the last 14. Being better than a total joke is nothing to hang your hat on.

In the end, all subjective I suppose, but my big issue is that's he's the exact same coach he was a dozen years ago, and the game is moving ahead without him.


You have to admit, though...that track record is WAY better than anyone would have guessed.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:14 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:We haven't had a head coach with a winning record in his tenure here in 25 years. And Marty's the only one we've had since 1974.

My kingdom for a Marvin Lewis.


All of those rummy's - and you and I, with the same amount of playoff wins as ML.


I'm not saying he's HOF material or anything, but he took a franchise that was mired in suck as badly as ours is now and...

8-8
8-8
11-5
8-8
7-9
4-11-1
10-6
4-12
9-7
10-6
11-5

...pulled that^ off.

What % chance would you put on our next HC bettering Marvin's first 4/5 years over the course of his first contract? What % chance would you put on however many HCs we have over the next 11 seasons bettering Marvin's first 11?

I'm thinking low single digits for both.

(A quickish run through Pro Football Reference informs me that Marvin's 90.5 regular season wins puts the Bengals at 16th in the NFL over that time period. Not worst to first, exactly, but worst to middlest is a hell of a lot better than worst to still worst, IMO. Especially considering he shared the division with two of the top 5 teams in football over that span.)


Many "experts" and football historians would credit Mike Brown "growing up" and not meddling nearly as much for the turn around as much as they would Marvin Lewis. MB is a fine coach if you're a Browns fans hoping to crawl your way out from the depths of perpetual incompetence. But if your goal is to build a WINNER, Mike Brown has proven he simply isn't the guy. Unless of course you think a winner is going 8-8 a lot and maybe going 10-6 or 11-5 once in a while, with nothing to show for it.

Frankly I think Marvin Lewis is best suited for the Dallas Cowboys organizatoin.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:19 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:We haven't had a head coach with a winning record in his tenure here in 25 years. And Marty's the only one we've had since 1974.

My kingdom for a Marvin Lewis.


All of those rummy's - and you and I, with the same amount of playoff wins as ML.


I'm not saying he's HOF material or anything, but he took a franchise that was mired in suck as badly as ours is now and...

8-8
8-8
11-5
8-8
7-9
4-11-1
10-6
4-12
9-7
10-6
11-5

...pulled that^ off.

What % chance would you put on our next HC bettering Marvin's first 4/5 years over the course of his first contract? What % chance would you put on however many HCs we have over the next 11 seasons bettering Marvin's first 11?

I'm thinking low single digits for both.

(A quickish run through Pro Football Reference informs me that Marvin's 90.5 regular season wins puts the Bengals at 16th in the NFL over that time period. Not worst to first, exactly, but worst to middlest is a hell of a lot better than worst to still worst, IMO. Especially considering he shared the division with two of the top 5 teams in football over that span.)


Within the NFL's structure, if you can't take a horrible team to somewhere in the middle, you'd have to be a GDmned idiot.

Sure, compare Marvin Lewis' run of the past 14 years to the Browns, and it looks good. As would Emmanual Lewis' run of the last 14. Being better than a total joke is nothing to hang your hat on.

In the end, all subjective I suppose, but my big issue is that's he's the exact same coach he was a dozen years ago, and the game is moving ahead without him.


You have to admit, though...that track record is WAY better than anyone would have guessed.

IMO that record is spot on where I would have guessed, actually handful of wins short of what I figured. I wouldn't have guessed he only won 4 games twice in 3 years. He has .514 winning % written all over him. The 0-5 in the playoffs really stands out over most everything else for him, IMHO.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:21 pm

leadpipe wrote:Within the NFL's structure, if you can't take a horrible team to somewhere in the middle, you'd have to be a GDmned idiot.


Then I suppose half the league must be run by GDmned idiots, since he's won more than half the league over that time. :shrug

Would I prefer for us to hire the next Bill Walsh? Well, sure. But I'd love it if our next coach could just function as our Marvin Lewis and snap us out of the awful losing culture we have here. My feeling is that the % chance of that happening with this next hire is rather low.
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Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:37 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Within the NFL's structure, if you can't take a horrible team to somewhere in the middle, you'd have to be a GDmned idiot.


Then I suppose half the league must be run by GDmned idiots, since he's won more than half the league over that time. :shrug

Would I prefer for us to hire the next Bill Walsh? Well, sure. But I'd love it if our next coach could just function as our Marvin Lewis and snap us out of the awful losing culture we have here. My feeling is that the % chance of that happening with this next hire is rather low.


Bob Stoops, Josh McDaniels, Jim Swartz, James Franklin, and some other dudes we've never heard of all disagree.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:22 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Within the NFL's structure, if you can't take a horrible team to somewhere in the middle, you'd have to be a GDmned idiot.


Then I suppose half the league must be run by GDmned idiots, since he's won more than half the league over that time. :shrug

Would I prefer for us to hire the next Bill Walsh? Well, sure. But I'd love it if our next coach could just function as our Marvin Lewis and snap us out of the awful losing culture we have here. My feeling is that the % chance of that happening with this next hire is rather low.


But HooDoo - not sure about the Marvin Lewis' comparisons over that time. Who else has a chance to last all those years with the type of success, or lack thereof?

What about comparing him to guys that have coached a single team 12 years straight?

I would argue that if you gave damn near anyone a dozen years in the NFL they would run into the same thing Lewis has, bad record leading to high draft pick talent, the occasional last place schedule etc. - things that prohibit even the biggest humps from losing for years straight.

Again, subjective I suppose. I've watched the guy in action, and, let me just say he's not the guy I want running my ship.

Jason Garrett has a decent record as well, and Christ, have you watched that guy try and coach a team?
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:16 pm

leadpipe wrote:But HooDoo - not sure about the Marvin Lewis' comparisons over that time. Who else has a chance to last all those years with the type of success, or lack thereof?


Maybe whoever is the HC of the Steelers at any given time, but probably not even him.

To me, though, that underscores the absurdity of constant HC turnover more than anything else. You ask why not compare him to other HCs who've had their job that long--well, the problem with that is those guys hardly exist. Belichick's the only HC in the NFL that surpasses him in seniority right now, and it took him a near-dynasty to get him that kind of job security.

I was looking at this recently, thinking about how odd it is that NFL HCs get guaranteed contracts when so few of them make it through the duration of them. Your standard HC contract is 4/5 years, and right now there are only 11 HCs in the NFL with 4 or more years of tenure. And it seems like winning a Super Bowl is a near requirement for staying very long past your first contract, as 6 of the 8 HCs in the NFL with six+ years of tenure in their current jobs have won Super Bowls (they're the only 6 current HCs to have won SBs, too). Marvin & Mike Smith are the only two exceptions.
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Re: Marvin Lewis

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:26 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
leadpipe wrote:But HooDoo - not sure about the Marvin Lewis' comparisons over that time. Who else has a chance to last all those years with the type of success, or lack thereof?


Maybe whoever the HC of the Steelers is at any given time, but probably not even him.

To me, though, that underscores the absurdity of constant HC turnover more than anything else. You ask why not compare him to other HCs who've had their job that long--well, the problem with that is those guys hardly exist. Belichick's the only HC in the NFL that surpasses him in seniority right now, and it took him a near-dynasty to get him that kind of job security.

I was looking at this recently, thinking about how odd it is that NFL HCs get guaranteed contracts when so few of them make it through the duration of them. Your standard HC contract is 4/5 years, and right now there are only 11 HCs in the NFL with 4 or more years of tenure. And it seems like winning a Super Bowl is a near requirement for staying very long past your first contract, as 6 of the 8 HCs in the NFL with six+ years of tenure in their current jobs have won Super Bowls (they're the only 6 current HCs to have won SBs, too). Marvin & Mike Smith are the only two exceptions.


Thought of this many times here as well - highlighted by a team that hired a guy into a disasterous recent history, undergoing an obvious rebuild, young roster and hamstrung him with a lame duck at the most important position on the field - and only gave him the season. (And I know I missed about 50 things including trading away the running game)

Teams, whether they knew it or not, were in much better shape with a Shottenheimer or Chuck Knox, even though they "couldn't win the big one," then running a coach out of there every other year. And there were (And are) are lot of coaches that "can't win the big one," .....until they do.

Aren't afforded that chance anymore.
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