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Youngstown Boys

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Youngstown Boys

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:31 pm

Don't forget to set your DVRs for the new 30 for 30 after the Heisman ceremony.

Younstown Boys...about Tressel and Clarrett.

Reviews I've read are mixed, but made by the same guys that did The Two Escobars, which is probably the best one to date.
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby jb » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:46 pm

motherscratcher wrote:Don't forget to set your DVRs for the new 30 for 30 after the Heisman ceremony.

Younstown Boys...about Tressel and Clarrett.

Reviews I've read are mixed, but made by the same guys that did The Two Escobars, which is probably the best one to date.



Poor, poor Reece. I hate to see victims of the system.
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby Spin » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:53 pm

I thought it was very good. We finally got his side of the story.

One thing that was never answered, was how did he have so much cash in his wallet when the NCAA investigated the "loaner" car?

It was a good thing he had homeboy Vest with his back. "That's not the way I do things but that's the way the University handles things." Looks like that's how you handled things too, Tress. Watching him fall asleep in my graduation ceremony last August was priceless, I should have got a picture of that. I bet he doesn't nod off on payday.
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby jb » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:59 pm

Spin wrote:I thought it was very good. We finally got his side of the story.

One thing that was never answered, was how did he have so much cash in his wallet when the NCAA investigated the "loaner" car?

It was a good thing he had homeboy Vest with his back. "That's not the way I do things but that's the way the University handles things." Looks like that's how you handled things too, Tress. Watching him fall asleep in my graduation ceremony last August was priceless, I should have got a picture of that. I bet he doesn't nod off on payday.



Yeah, I wonder. Not alot of good things the locals in the MV share about Reece, from his transfers to his grades to just what an all around swell cat he was. But Momma says it was just misinterprited confidence. I do know who sent him home without a state trophy though after he ran for 400 on Eds. :nanner:

The Vest was always great about "go see a guy". Plausible deniability. It's hillarious they had Ray Isaac on camera and didn't ask mim one question such as, oh, ISK, "Who was Mickey Monus?"
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby pup » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:34 pm

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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby furls » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:56 pm

I thought it was a nice story. I have no idea how much truth was in it. They sure seemed to go out of their way to blame Andy Geiger. When they tried to make Jim Brown credible was when they lost me.

Again though, it was nice to hear the Reecey side.
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby dmiles » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:34 am

Honestly even if you wanted to take it with a serious grain of realistic cynicism the bottom line for me is this. We all make choices. I don't know if sent to prison at his age, knowing I fucked it all away that I'd get out for good behavior and try to find some positive outlet. If by doing that he's puffing up his past a little to his benefit? What do I care? Obama doesn't release academic records, Bush hides possible drug related issues.... It's just how stuff works really.

Most of us do the same if shopping for a new mate. They get to see as much as the shiny good stuff as possible.

My wife was a teacher at WWR when he came through but he transferred in HS from Fitch never went through Jr. High. She said at the time "man some of the people up there can't stand him, he's a self-entitled, little prick".

Now? She watched the story with a tear of joy for the guy. The mom saying I get to touch him, hug him, be angry with him. Young men his age off themselves under similar circumstances. I get the whole cynical thing it gives us that reality check that nobody will ever pull the wool over our eyes for any reason. We are wise to you fuckers (whoever they are). I spend much of my life not getting fooled by people.

Once in a while, it's nice to step back and see that there are human sides to all this. We make mistakes, how do we deal with it. If it helps him to blame a false boogeyman, what is the story? The false boogeyman more interesting or a guy who might in fact turn this life around for something positive.
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby dmiles » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:56 am

Furls you would know this even more than me.

I was enlisted. Mostly finished my undergrad since I was at the same place for two terms, I had a couple of classes left when I got out. You obviously were on the other side of the fence.

I know that even here in this forum we like to bash Tressel for the Trinkets for Tats lies. But I still come back to this. Should he have been fired and all that? Absolutely. I understand that when you are caught, you do the time.

I personally am still bugged by the outright vile hate about the incident in the media, and liken this to my dealings with occasional brushes with the law and having to meet with your commanding officers. (Air Force of course). In my time, late late 80s, we of course were very much boys-will-be-boys and did some incredibly stupid things. I see SeaterVest as the protector officer vs. the regulation honk. Sometimes your commander was a fighter pilot. Or an Academy football player. These guys as commanders did as much as they could to protect their people.

Example: If underage kid gets a little hammered at the Friday gathering in the big hangar, throws up and happens to be underage... This officer is probably going to do his best to say to someone, hey' let's get so-and-so back to his room and put him to bed. If a higher commander came around asking "who left that steaming pile of bile and chunks over there." Manly officer says, yes sir we got the situation under control.

I contrast this what I might call SteepleChase officer. This guy is so slight and non-manly you'd almost be afraid to punch him. Certainly you could have Toss the SteepleChase guy nights if he were a drinker. Anyway this officer runs a clean ship and will not have anyone fucking up under his watch. His approach is to take the same kid, and bust him for an Article 15. He will pile on aby senidng that kid to jail. Ad give him an alcohol related incident and if he's been in trouble before they might assign him some time in the local little jail thing for somewhat bad troops for being underage. He is clearly sending a message that this behavior will not be tolerated.

So you tell me am I wrong to want to take By-the-book regulation honk officer and kick him square in the nuts so hard he cries? Obviously I won't do it. But don't most of us hate that guy? And don't most of us appreciate the fighter pilot guy? Tressel broke rules and lied. Does the officer who refuses to screw up the career of the kid get ridicule and scorn if caught?

He fucked up and was wrong. He said as much. If I am a reporter do I have to project vile anger? Because if so I'd just be making it up. I'd need a boss to come in and say "Look dmiles you are covering the Tressel situation, make sure you are very very angry". I'd say yessir, I'll pretend. Boss says "you mean you aren't really outraged? I say no but that's fine, I can fake it if that's what you need me to do.
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby furls » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:39 pm

sanc·ti·mo·ni·ous
ˌsaNG(k)təˈmōnēəs/Submit
adjective derogatory
1. making a show of being morally superior to other people.
"what happened to all the sanctimonious talk about putting his family first?"
synonyms: self-righteous, holier-than-thou, pious, pietistic, churchy, moralizing, preachy, smug, superior, priggish, hypocritical, insincere;

These sanctimonious dickheads make their living by making scandals greater than they are. Mark May's 2 DUI's are significantly worse than any mistake Tressel is on the record as having made. As to your 2 officer comparison.... We all love the fighter pilot/cowboy officer. The one that let's the NCO's handle the issue as there is no reason to make a guy pay for a 18 year old's mistake for his entire career. Time and time again I see guys that are excellent NCO's/Chiefs etc that are effectively at their terminal rank/position because of a mistake they made when they were 18... a mistake that limits a 37 year old's career opportunities. The only reason I am where I am is because I was never caught by officer #2 and I worked for a lot of great NCO's as a 19 year old Marine.

These guys feign outrage at non-crimes, but do very little about actual crimes. Tressel in particular did not help his cause by being a guy that preached doing it the right way when he didn't. I think of myself as one of those "cowboy" style officers that is willing to let the boys be boys (within reason), but I also understand that occasionally some of my superiors may not appreciate that. In that case, I am taking my career into my own hands and I have to be willing to accept the responsibility for my actions. I make those "cowboy" calls knowing full well that it could hurt me in the long run.

I can't stand how vilified Tressel was, but Chip Kelly, who's crime was 1000X sleazier, received a big pass. Hell, he paid a street agent 25K, got caught covering it up, and didn't even get a one year show cause!
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby dmiles » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:58 pm

Totally with you there Furls.

When you play the game you have to be prepared, and if someone decides to nail you for protecting the boys for something. We all know what will happen.

Many of my buddies ended up going to OCS. I was 25 or so and only 6-7 years in, so I could have gone as well except I had no chance. I was caught up in Police "Sting" on base. Three months before turning 21, being the dishonorable shithead I was, I made the mistake of having a beer in my hand watching college football in the day room when they went into operation Sting. The SP sees me with a beer asks for my ID, and says "here's one". Cuffed and slammed into the back of the base squad car. First Sgt. had to sign me out and he did everything he could to tell the CO let it go. CO said no way, and pushed for Article 15. I said I won't sign it, instead of fighting it out they came back with something a little less. Still at that point my name is mud.

Now if this had been a DUI crash, selling ecstasy, stealing etc.... Sure cuff and haul away those guys. Hell I would have gone willingly. Damn that was embarrassing. All the "legal" guys were on the outside of the dorms hooting and hollering at me, whistling. The SPs were telling them to pipe down, they are up there going fuck that.

Anyway, I worked for other guys who were much more Sweater Vest than #2 guy, and it's like they were real men not hipsters with attitude.
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby furls » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:31 pm

Cowboys generally tend to have a better chance at rehabilitating guys and mentoring young men. Unfortunately, it is a fine line between mentoring and enabling. I think Tressel was starting to head toward the latter. It is pretty easy justify lots of things when you are doing it in what you perceive as the best interests of others.

I honestly don't think Tressel was hiding this stuff for his own best interests, at least not in his own mind. I think he was trying prevent another MoC situation where he probably did too little, especially after the kid was essentially kicked off the team.
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:52 pm

I think a part of the MoC issue was Tressel wasn't TRESSEL til after that fire had started. I think Geiger was still the cock of the walk in many ways and Tressel didn't have the influence that he would after that 2002 season and beyond. I saw Geiger as controlling both MoC and Tressel throughout that period of time. Like he had to make sure they both knew their place.

I hated watching that 30 for 30. Hated seeing the wasted talent of MoC, the involvement of Brown and JJackson, the arrogance of geiger (who sure seemed to make it personal to the point where Jackson and Brown felt compelled or motivated to be involved.

Hated seeing the downward spiral that could have gone totally and horrifically bad. And I'm not gonna lie: I can't follow MoC on Twitter or elsewhere because he's a living, breathing commercial these days for his website and book and workout regimen and everything else.

I do hope he stays on this path though. He's a bright dude with a hell of a story to offer others.

It's scary when he says he doesn't have much recall of '04 through '06 due to either pills, weed or booze.
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby furls » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:26 pm

It didn't have to go down that way. Of course we are not privy to everything that went down with MoC and his suspension and violations, nor do I really know what violations he committed that warranted a one year suspension, with all of those conditions in order to even be reinstated later.

I would argue that if he had not been shoved away from the team for the entire year with very little shot at getting back on the team (I believe all of those parts of the story completely), I think this story could've ended very differently. Clarrett's story is a big part of the reason why I hate the NCAA. I don't think MoC was quite the angel that was portrayed in the 30:30, but he certainly got a raw deal as a result of the institution and the way it is run. It is pretty clear in Clarrett's case that the NCAA was not focused on the "student-athlete's" best interests.
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Re: Youngstown Boys

Unread postby furls » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:29 pm

Keep Clarrett moving forward with a goal and a team in 2003 and he may have had a very different outcome.

Geiger did come off as an arrogant ass in that film, and honestly, it was bullshit that they did not fly him home for that funeral. The only reason he was in AZ was to feed the NCAA machine. That machine could have reached down and spared a few hundred bucks for a plane ticket. That was absolutely ridiculous and OSU should've led him through that process even if he didn't do the paperwork right.... OSU should've done it right for him. That is just taking care of your people.
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