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2014 College QB Thread

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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:13 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote: Devaluing the importance of the QB to be roughly about the same as any other position seems to be some kind of mantra on this board these days, maybe a projection of the way people wish the world was.



Now who's projecting? ;-) ;) :wink:

As one of the dozen people still left here and one who's been regularly involved in this circular and annual discussion, I don't find it devaluing the position whatsoever to state that there is no dead-bang answer this season (or most others) and that it's stupid to reach and overspend on a media/scout/draftnik creation if there's an actual, honest to goodness player on the board who can actually, you know, play well and make you better. Especially when there's as good a chance (or better) as not that the QB will be able to actually play the game.

Maybe we could, as a group, list all the 1st round QB selections from the last 3-4 years and look back with hindsight and say which ones were reaches (90% of 'em probably) and which percentage of those reaches paid off in a bonafide franchise QB (5% of 'em maybe??? Prolly less???).

You know how I feel about it. You have for a while.

Take the guy if you like him when it's your turn to pick. Stop reaching so desperately (and yes, there are reaches that are reasonable).

Make the position better every season through either acquisition or development. They did that this year with Campbell/Hoyer over Weeden. Do it again next year and the year after that.

And now we should all sit back with amusement and watch people suddenly swallow goo for Bortles. No one woulda known who the fuck that guy was last September. Now someone, and I guaranfuckingtee it, will talk themselves into the guy being worth #5 and certainly a top 10 pick.

Wouda been a nice player in RD2. Better in RD3. Top of 1??? Are you effing kidding me? That ain't reaching. That's leaping blindly out a 15th floor window with arm out and hoping you find something really great to cling to.

Every single fucking year it happens.

Great. Let the other idiots pay that price. It just doesn't work. I don't know how many more Gabberts and Ponders and Lockers and Weedens it takes for people to figure that out.

BPA. And if BPA is QB (considering reasonable reach) then so be it. Otherwise I'm fine with others stepping on their dicks even if I'm getting only marginally better at the position.


There's very rarely a dead-bang answer. That's why they get paid the big bucks. If every draft had an Andrew Luck, my daughters could do the job.

Reaching, I think, is an overused term. It belies that no on else had the player valued that high and that the people that actually picked him didn't even value him that high themselves but made the pick anyway. It doesn't hurt if the player ends up not playing anywhere near the expectations of players generally picked at that spot.

Weeden is likely an example of this. Possibly Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder as well, although with 3 of them going up that high in the same year, it's hardly like NO ONE else valued those players as high as they got picked. That was apparently just the going price for crap QB's that year.

Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf... those weren't reaches. Lots of teams would've picked them at those spots. Those were just poor jobs of evaluation (across the board).

Which has little to do with your post, just throwing that out there.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:31 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:It sounds to me like you feel every QB in this draft is going to be crap...


Well, since I can respond without veering off too far into QB value...

I don't feel this way at all.

I like Teddy Bridgewater. If we had the #1 overall pick, I'd be happy to take him there.

I said most of what I have to say about Derek Carr upthread. I wouldn't want to use a Top 50ish pick on him. Maybe he could be a quality NFL QB, but IMO that's a hell of a projection based on what he's doing against the competition he's doing it against.

Again, I like my stripper girlfriend analogy for Johnny Manziel. He's oozing with my very favoritestest QB quality--poise under pressure & playmaking ability. He's sexy in that way. But he's a terrible idea in just about every other way. You don't responsibly take someone like that in the Top 50ish picks, but I can't blame someone for doing it, either.

After mostly ignoring all the OBR peeps' discussion of Bortles the past few months, with CBS' latest projection I finally checked out some YouTubez... He looks like he could be a real wildcard. I wouldn't hate him in the Top 10 the way I'd hate Carr or be scared of him in the Top 10 the way I'd be scared of Manziel. Maybe a little turnover prone, but he looks like a nice athlete with an NFL arm, and overall a pretty nice QB. And he has a silly name, too, which is always a bonus for me. So he'll probably end up in the Top 5 and still out of reach.

McCarron looks like a solid late 2nd/early 3rd round QB prospect who's likable enough that I wouldn't hate it if we took him a little earlier (by little, I mean with our 2nd round pick). I'd be surprised if he ended up a star, but not the least to see him turn into a quality NFL starter. His tattoo decision-making is rather poor, however.

Mettenberger is terrible, but he has enough talent & upside that a 3rd or 4th wouldn't offend me.

Did Hundley just announce that he's returning to school? (CBS doesn't have him ranked all of a sudden.) If he hasn't announced it, he should. He's raw as F and it's difficult to imagine him not failing horribly in Cleveland. Terrible poise & inconsistent accuracy from what I've seen. I just don't know how early you take a guy like that pretty much based on physical profile alone. Responsibly, I'd say late 2nd round.

My feeling is that Tajh has probably slid to where he belongs. Always kind of felt he was being propped up by Sammy Watkins the way Weeden was by Blackmon.

Who-TF knows about Garoppolo. But I have a difficult time taking him seriously.

So there you go, depending on how the draft falls, I'd be happy to take quite a few guys, whether they be players I'd be counting on to take the job from Hoyer or guys I'd hope to develop behind him for a while.


Well, we can at least agree on almost all of that. I'd probably move where I'd be fine taking them up half a round for some of them, but that's probably because I overvalue the position.

Except maybe Manziel, who isn't attractive to me in any way since I think that the positive attributes he DOES have will fade rapidly when faced with superior physical talent, NFL schemes, self-doubt, and physical abuse.

I can't find anything on Hundley returning to school as of now... I'm still assuming he will (and probably should), although if he thinks he's going Top 10, I guess it might not make a helluva lot of sense to him not to come out.

Will have to watch some Bortles here soon - I watched one UCF game this year, but don't remember him being remarkable either for better or worse.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:50 pm

peeker643 wrote:And now we should all sit back with amusement and watch people suddenly swallow goo for Bortles. No one woulda known who the fuck that guy was last September. Now someone, and I guaranfuckingtee it, will talk themselves into the guy being worth #5 and certainly a top 10 pick.

Wouda been a nice player in RD2. Better in RD3. Top of 1??? Are you effing kidding me? That ain't reaching. That's leaping blindly out a 15th floor window with arm out and hoping you find something really great to cling to.


Well, Bortles has been on the radar of the OBR draft geek board for a couple months now. I'm seeing him for the first time tonight, but after now watching his 2013 YouTubez against South Carolina, Pedophile St, Rutgers, and Akron--waiting to see if his game-winning drive video against Louisville ever loads--and I've been pretty impressed. I didn't finish the 2012 Mizzou video, as he really looked like a different guy (in a bad way). Didn't bother with his 3 INT game against OSU from 2012 either, sensing that he's possibly come a long way in that one year.

From what I've seen, he looks like the #2 QB in this draft to me. One with enough athleticism & upside that it wouldn't upset me to see us take him in the Top 10. After Bridgewater, Barr, Clowney, and Watkins, I don't see why not. Maybe even ahead of one or two of those guys before all's said & done. Shrug?

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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:39 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
peeker643 wrote:And now we should all sit back with amusement and watch people suddenly swallow goo for Bortles. No one woulda known who the fuck that guy was last September. Now someone, and I guaranfuckingtee it, will talk themselves into the guy being worth #5 and certainly a top 10 pick.

Wouda been a nice player in RD2. Better in RD3. Top of 1??? Are you effing kidding me? That ain't reaching. That's leaping blindly out a 15th floor window with arm out and hoping you find something really great to cling to.


Well, Bortles has been on the radar of the OBR draft geek board for a couple months now. I'm seeing him for the first time tonight, but after now watching his 2013 YouTubez against South Carolina, Pedophile St, Rutgers, and Akron--waiting to see if his game-winning drive video against Louisville ever loads--and I've been pretty impressed. I didn't finish the 2012 Mizzou video, as he really looked like a different guy (in a bad way). Didn't bother with his 3 INT game against OSU from 2012 either, sensing that he's possibly come a long way in that one year.

From what I've seen, he looks like the #2 QB in this draft to me. One with enough athleticism & upside that it wouldn't upset me to see us take him in the Top 10. After Bridgewater, Barr, Clowney, and Watkins, I don't see why not. Maybe even ahead of one or two of those guys before all's said & done. Shrug?

Regards,
Potential Goo-Swallower


I wasn't addressing the goo-swallower to you. I was writing that as you were posting and I've seen the Bortles love grow exponentially over the past month or 6 weeks from numerous corners of the internet.

Part of my issue with a guy like that is he never had his 'Hundley Moment'. The teams you referenced up top, with possible exception of a half-assed Clowney led SC team, are more of a joke than the pathetic defenses that made big bank for Weeden, Freeman, Geno, Gabbert, et al. Hundley was exposed, for better or worse, when he had to play a few games against some talented defensive athletes or teams in two or three straight weeks. Bortles hasn't had that come to Jesus moment yet and won't if he comes out. I have more fear of a guy like that than of Hundley. Not that I was impressed or want Hundley either. But at least you could see some of his developmental needs exposed.

I'd certainly prefer to not take Bortles at #7 (or thereabouts) and learn about his deficiencies in OTAs or camp. So to me a reach for that kid would be the Indy pick and, yeah, I'd have to think long and hard about it. That's the same range where Weeden went and I hated that shit. I'd have to be a heck of a lot more sold on Bortles to want him there. But at #7 I'd gladly walk away and take BPA.

I'm not ignorant to the fact Bortles might be 2nd best in show. I'm also not ignorant enough to ignore that a few more who are of that ilk will probably go in top 15. I'd just prefer, based on history and the preference to play better hands, that someone else make those guys those selections.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:45 pm

peeker643 wrote:I wasn't addressing the goo-swallower to you. I was writing that as you were posting...


I figured that. It was a joke.

Could have been clearer if the smiley things on this site weren't so bad.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:38 am

HoodooMan wrote:So from this thread alone...

Hiko's assessment of the 2014 QB class:

With the list it is and without really having researched the players too much, I'd be fine with:

1st (1st pick): Bridgewater, Carr, maaaaaaybe Hundley (if he comes out, which I doubt), I've seen his stock being a late 1st rounder.

1st (2nd pick): Hundley

2nd: McCarron (I guess), Grrrrappollo (I guess), Tajh Boyd, Mettenberger (I suppose)

God, this has gotten ugly.


Aaaaaaaand:

I'd rather sign Craig Robertson to a 10 year contract than go into next year with Campbell and Hoyer as the only QB prospects.

...

So no way in hell do I go into next season with Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer as my only answers at that position.

...

If they haven't already addressed previous to the draft, then, yes, there will be a meltdown. There should be.

...

YOU CAN'T JUST SAY "OH WELL, WE'LL JUST DRAFT A QB NEXT YEAR" EVERY YEAR SINCE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE NEXT YEAR WILL BRING WITH QB'S RETURNING OR GETTING INJURED OR GETTING ARRESTED OR DEMONSTRATING NEW WEAKNESSES.

...

IF YOU IDENTIFY A QB OR TWO THAT YOU THINK CAN BE REALLY GOOD YOU MIGHT JUST NEED TO OVERPAY TO ENSURE YOU GET HIM.

...

Contrary to popular belief, I do not want the Browns to reach for just any QB just to get a QB. There HAS to be someone in this draft that they think could be a possible long term franchise elite championship QB. I want them to identify that QB(s) and make sure they get him (one of them). If he has a top of the 2nd Rd grade, take him with the Indy pick. If he has a top of 3rd Rd grade, trade into the back of the 2nd to get him if you have to.


So in summation, the QB isn't everything, BUT:

-The QB is apparently at least an entire passing offense, if not an entire offense

-The only acceptable approach to a shitty QB class (meltdown justified, otherwise) is to reach on a QB in the first two rounds of the draft, because as anyone who doesn't think the QB is everything knows, doing this every year is a great way to build up the rest of the team that (wink, wink) matters, too.

-Though, as we know from other conversations on the topic, if the QB you've signed or traded for isn't one of about 10 names, he isn't worth bothering with, and if the QB you've drafted isn't one of 2-3 names, he isn't worth drafting.

So the QB isn't everything, he's just 98% of all things. :rolleyes



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I now know I'm not nuts.

I'm ready to get on with just hating the thought of Manziel.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:42 am

HoodooMan wrote:
peeker643 wrote:And now we should all sit back with amusement and watch people suddenly swallow goo for Bortles. No one woulda known who the fuck that guy was last September. Now someone, and I guaranfuckingtee it, will talk themselves into the guy being worth #5 and certainly a top 10 pick.

Wouda been a nice player in RD2. Better in RD3. Top of 1??? Are you effing kidding me? That ain't reaching. That's leaping blindly out a 15th floor window with arm out and hoping you find something really great to cling to.


Well, Bortles has been on the radar of the OBR draft geek board for a couple months now. I'm seeing him for the first time tonight, but after now watching his 2013 YouTubez against South Carolina, Pedophile St, Rutgers, and Akron--waiting to see if his game-winning drive video against Louisville ever loads--and I've been pretty impressed. I didn't finish the 2012 Mizzou video, as he really looked like a different guy (in a bad way). Didn't bother with his 3 INT game against OSU from 2012 either, sensing that he's possibly come a long way in that one year.

From what I've seen, he looks like the #2 QB in this draft to me. One with enough athleticism & upside that it wouldn't upset me to see us take him in the Top 10. After Bridgewater, Barr, Clowney, and Watkins, I don't see why not. Maybe even ahead of one or two of those guys before all's said & done. Shrug?

Regards,
Potential Goo-Swallower



Doo Doo IDK if Peeker's point is to pick on Bortles per se. Bortlrs is a nice prospect where rationally slotted.

Just that when the next Akili or that stiff Jacksonville picked rockets up the charts let some other morons pick him top 10. Hopefully we'll improve the team.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:58 am

I guess I just don't have a very good sense of Bortles' rational slotting at the moment, then. Maybe as the process moves forward (if he declares, of course), I'll get to read & see some critiques that highlight issues I didn't see in those videos. But for now, I'm just saying--based on what I saw, he looks pretty good. Not crazy videogame-looking Carr/Manziel stuff, either.

Before watching, I was kind of at:

1. Bridgewater
2. Barr
3. Clowney
4. Watkins
5. Mack? Now Dennard, maybe?
6. Eeeek!

But now I'm wondering if he could end up being a legit target after those first four/five/six, which would be nice. Shrug.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:14 am

What we the general public feel a player is and was slotted at usually has little to do with where the GM's had a player slotted.

There are tons of times where players shot up the national perception chart, actually got picked up high, and blew. So it's easy to understand the reservations we the public might have.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:18 am

jb wrote:
"Now I'm done."
-Brady Quinn

I now know I'm not nuts.

I'm ready to get on with just hating the thought of Manziel.


Edit - NM, must disengage, I actually need to get some work done today.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:01 am

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
"Now I'm done."
-Brady Quinn

I now know I'm not nuts.

I'm ready to get on with just hating the thought of Manziel.


Edit - NM, must disengage, I actually need to get some work done today.


If I can't land Bridgewater , I'd just as soon draft the best linebacker and running back in the first round amd take my pick of Murray Mettenbuger Harris or McCarron in the second , or even Bortles if that water finally settles at its proper level.

I'm redshirting them inbetween my two vets anyway , and I'm not drafting him to start which includes Teddy even if I spent two number ones .

So I hope your head explodes as you wrap it around that thought.

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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:47 am

HoodooMan wrote:I guess I just don't have a very good sense of Bortles' rational slotting at the moment, then. Maybe as the process moves forward (if he declares, of course), I'll get to read & see some critiques that highlight issues I didn't see in those videos. But for now, I'm just saying--based on what I saw, he looks pretty good. Not crazy videogame-looking Carr/Manziel stuff, either.

Before watching, I was kind of at:

1. Bridgewater
2. Barr
3. Clowney
4. Watkins
5. Mack? Now Dennard, maybe?
6. Eeeek!

But now I'm wondering if he could end up being a legit target after those first four/five/six, which would be nice. Shrug.


As usual the key is for these bumblefucks not to kludge this up with a Mangina Shur meaningless win streak. Some of the 4 win teams are playing decent ball now like TB & Jax. I'm ambivalent about beating the Inbred. No I'm not. That's a Paul Crüe win. But the Jets are a must-lose. Gotta come up big & pull out all the coaching stops. Get Willis healthy, don't practice STs and burn those TOs like stoner with a new bag of weed.

Personally I think the boys are up to the challenge.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:48 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
"Now I'm done."
-Brady Quinn

I now know I'm not nuts.

I'm ready to get on with just hating the thought of Manziel.


Edit - NM, must disengage, I actually need to get some work done today.


If I can't land Bridgewater , I'd just as soon draft the best linebacker and running back in the first round amd take my pick of Murray Mettenbuger Harris or McCarron in the second , or even Bortles if that water finally settles at its proper level.

I'm redshirting them inbetween my two vets anyway , and I'm not drafting him to start which includes Teddy even if I spent two number ones .

So I hope your head explodes as you wrap it around that thought.

SoulDawg


It won't, since I've said many times that I too would red shirt whomever they drafted. I apparently speak in Greek.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:51 am

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
"Now I'm done."
-Brady Quinn

I now know I'm not nuts.

I'm ready to get on with just hating the thought of Manziel.


Edit - NM, must disengage, I actually need to get some work done today.


Relate.

But I'd disengage too on this instead of continuing to try that moonwalk like as if the Ghost at a DUI stop.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:05 am

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
"Now I'm done."
-Brady Quinn

I now know I'm not nuts.

I'm ready to get on with just hating the thought of Manziel.


Edit - NM, must disengage, I actually need to get some work done today.


Relate.

But I'd disengage too on this instead of continuing to try that moonwalk like as if the Ghost at a DUI stop.


Right, keep being an ass. It becomes you.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:04 am

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
"Now I'm done."
-Brady Quinn

I now know I'm not nuts.

I'm ready to get on with just hating the thought of Manziel.


Edit - NM, must disengage, I actually need to get some work done today.


Relate.

But I'd disengage too on this instead of continuing to try that moonwalk like as if the Ghost at a DUI stop.


Right, keep being an ass. It becomes you.



Well all ends must have their appropriate means. If you want to make an omelette and all that sort.

If I have had to pay the price of bruising an ego to raise the level of discourse above the "it's all meaningless until we draft a preordained franchise QB as messiah" bullshit to this level of retraction I consider it my burdon to have performed a public service.

Y'all welcome.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:05 am

I'm completely on board with the redshirt plan. No matter who they pick (and they have to pick someone, not necessarily in the first) they need to sit in 3rd position. Bring back Hoyer and Campbell and let them duke it out for starter/backup. In todays NFL it is more likely than not that both will be needed during the course of the season.

I wouldn't recommend, but I also wouldn't gnash teeth very much if they use both firsts to trade up to Teddy, although I'd prefer the Peek stragety of just staying put and drafting a QB if you have that guy rated there. Problem is, I'm not sure what QBs besides Teddy deserve to be rated in the top of the first.

We've all seen the lists where by far the most "elite" QBs are drafted in first, more close to the top than not. The problem is taking a second rounder in the first and thinking that makes them a first round talent with elite upside just because "Now we have a first round QB!" Turds don't polish that way.

I'm not going to sit here and "evaluate" the QBs in this draft like I know what the fuck I'm talking about. Honestly, how the fuck do I know whether McCarron or Carr or Jimmy the Greek are any good and where they should be rated. There are enough people out there already (Goldhammer and ilk, I assume) who like to pretend that they have the first damn clue.

I will say this, though...for reasons I can't articulate other than "gut feeling" I'm not interested in any QB with a last name that starts with M. Other than maybe McCarron. In the second or something. Shit...that made no sense.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:11 am

The closer to the top, the less inclined to trade we should be, too. If we sneak into the top 4, chances are that 2 of those teams like Washington or Atlanta won't need a QB anyway. Just let it be known to Texas that we are fine with Clowney, Barr, or Watkins and we don't see any need to give up any more than, say, our extra 3rd rounder. And mean it.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:44 am

motherscratcher wrote:The closer to the top, the less inclined to trade we should be, too. If we sneak into the top 4, chances are that 2 of those teams like Washington or Atlanta won't need a QB anyway. Just let it be known to Texas that we are fine with Clowney, Barr, or Watkins and we don't see any need to give up any more than, say, our extra 3rd rounder. And mean it.


Washington's currently #2 in the pecking order behind Houston and that pick goes to St Louis as part of the deal that brought RG3 to Washington and gave the Skins the messiah-like guy that would keep them out of the top of the draft for a decade.

No matter as I'm pretty sure St Louis will not use it on a QB.

Of course, St Louis might be willing to deal that #2 for a couple firsts this year and another next year.

Wonder if there are any teams in this year's draft with a couple first rounders that might be historically stupid and poorly run enough to fall for that.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:44 am

jb wrote:Well all ends must have their appropriate means. If you want to make an omelette and all that sort.

If I have had to pay the price of bruising an ego to raise the level of discourse above the "it's all meaningless until we draft a preordained franchise QB as messiah" bullshit to this level of retraction I consider it my burdon to have performed a public service.

Y'all welcome.


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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:50 am

motherscratcher wrote:We've all seen the lists where by far the most "elite" QBs are drafted in first, more close to the top than not. The problem is taking a second rounder in the first and thinking that makes them a first round talent with elite upside just because "Now we have a first round QB!" Turds don't polish that way.



OJ Simpson.... not a jew.

IDK, just reminds of of this whole "elite" thing we throw around.

NFL Player Passing Statistics - 2013

Statistics: Passing | Rushing | Receiving | Scoring | Returning | Kicking | Punting | Defense
Season:
League:
Qualified | All Players
NFL Total QBR »
Passer Rating Leaders - Qualified
RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
1 Nick Foles, QB PHI 135 218 61.9 1,970 9.04 63 20 1 17 120.0 197
2 Peyton Manning, QB DEN 366 539 67.9 4,522 8.39 78 45 9 15 114.5 348
3 Josh McCown, QB CHI 147 220 66.8 1,809 8.22 80 13 1 11 109.8 258
4 Aaron Rodgers, QB GB 168 251 66.9 2,218 8.84 83 15 4 18 108.0 277
5 Russell Wilson, QB SEA 213 330 64.5 2,871 8.70 80 23 7 32 106.5 221
6 Drew Brees, QB NO 353 519 68.0 4,107 7.91 69 33 8 26 106.5 316
7 Philip Rivers, QB SD 325 462 70.3 3,882 8.40 60 26 9 24 106.4 299
8 Tony Romo, QB DAL 296 460 64.3 3,244 7.05 82 27 7 30 98.3 250
9 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 320 500 64.0 3,724 7.45 62 24 10 39 94.1 286
10 Sam Bradford, QB STL 159 262 60.7 1,687 6.44 73 14 4 15 90.9 241

If we can agree you minimally have to be top 10 to be "elite", and IDK if we can, here's my count for the here and now; not 2009. To me, eliete is as elite does, else why not include Eli? If we cherry pick the Brady's I'm not sure that bolsters the position.

Top 5 overall - 2
UFA - 3
First Round other - 2
UDFA undrafted - 1
3rd round - 2

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:54 am

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
"Now I'm done."
-Brady Quinn

I now know I'm not nuts.

I'm ready to get on with just hating the thought of Manziel.


Edit - NM, must disengage, I actually need to get some work done today.


Relate.

But I'd disengage too on this instead of continuing to try that moonwalk like as if the Ghost at a DUI stop.


Right, keep being an ass. It becomes you.



Well all ends must have their appropriate means. If you want to make an omelette and all that sort.

If I have had to pay the price of bruising an ego to raise the level of discourse above the "it's all meaningless until we draft a preordained franchise QB as messiah" bullshit to this level of retraction I consider it my burdon to have performed a public service.

Y'all welcome.


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C'mon Hiko. You're a legend and we all, myself included love you like tots love their footie jammies.

All I've done is take a position, give solid facts, and bull dog you on it. You doubled down, I doubled down. You raised, I called. We all know how it's done. First one to tweak loses the chips to the other poker player. It's just a game. We've all been at it for years.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:59 am

jb wrote:C'mon Hiko. You're a legend and we all, myself included love you like tots love their footie jammies.

All I've done is take a position, give solid facts, and bull dog you on it. You doubled down, I doubled down. You raised, I called. We all know how it's done. First one to tweak loses the chips to the other poker player. It's just a game. We've all been at it for years.


Not in the mood today.

Stop being a cuntish troll and go choke on a dick. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:05 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:C'mon Hiko. You're a legend and we all, myself included love you like tots love their footie jammies.

All I've done is take a position, give solid facts, and bull dog you on it. You doubled down, I doubled down. You raised, I called. We all know how it's done. First one to tweak loses the chips to the other poker player. It's just a game. We've all been at it for years.


Not in the mood today.

Stop being a cuntish troll and go choke on a dick. ;-) ;) :wink:



I don't care what you write.

You complete me.

:group:
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:04 pm

You know a thread has gone to hell when people are quoting me and the things I deleted.

And BTW, none of you know dick about anything. You type shit so you can read it back to yourselves and enjoy the sense of self fellatio it gives you.

This forum should be nuked.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:17 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote: You type shit so you can read it back to yourselves and enjoy the sense of self fellatio it gives you.



I try to stretch more after working out hard as an old fart has repeatedly strained my back but I can't seem to get there.

Maybe I need trantic yoga.

Namiste bitches.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby The Score » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:35 pm

jb wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:We've all seen the lists where by far the most "elite" QBs are drafted in first, more close to the top than not. The problem is taking a second rounder in the first and thinking that makes them a first round talent with elite upside just because "Now we have a first round QB!" Turds don't polish that way.



OJ Simpson.... not a jew.

IDK, just reminds of of this whole "elite" thing we throw around.

NFL Player Passing Statistics - 2013

Statistics: Passing | Rushing | Receiving | Scoring | Returning | Kicking | Punting | Defense
Season:
League:
Qualified | All Players
NFL Total QBR »
Passer Rating Leaders - Qualified
RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
1 Nick Foles, QB PHI 135 218 61.9 1,970 9.04 63 20 1 17 120.0 197
2 Peyton Manning, QB DEN 366 539 67.9 4,522 8.39 78 45 9 15 114.5 348
3 Josh McCown, QB CHI 147 220 66.8 1,809 8.22 80 13 1 11 109.8 258
4 Aaron Rodgers, QB GB 168 251 66.9 2,218 8.84 83 15 4 18 108.0 277
5 Russell Wilson, QB SEA 213 330 64.5 2,871 8.70 80 23 7 32 106.5 221
6 Drew Brees, QB NO 353 519 68.0 4,107 7.91 69 33 8 26 106.5 316
7 Philip Rivers, QB SD 325 462 70.3 3,882 8.40 60 26 9 24 106.4 299
8 Tony Romo, QB DAL 296 460 64.3 3,244 7.05 82 27 7 30 98.3 250
9 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 320 500 64.0 3,724 7.45 62 24 10 39 94.1 286
10 Sam Bradford, QB STL 159 262 60.7 1,687 6.44 73 14 4 15 90.9 241

If we can agree you minimally have to be top 10 to be "elite", and IDK if we can, here's my count for the here and now; not 2009. To me, eliete is as elite does, else why not include Eli? If we cherry pick the Brady's I'm not sure that bolsters the position.

Top 5 overall - 2
UFA - 3
First Round other - 2
UDFA undrafted - 1
3rd round - 2

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating


1. Draft pick
2. Free agent
3. Free agent
4. Draft pick
5. Draft pick
6. Free agent
7. Trade (of draft picks)
8. Free agent (UDFA)
9. Draft pick
10. Draft pick
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:35 pm

So you would suck your own dick if you could reach it? Wery wery intervesting, Mr. Baker.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:42 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:So you would suck your own dick if you could reach it? Wery wery intervesting, Mr. Baker.



In the interest of full disclosure, IDK for sure if I would try it or not.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:46 pm

jb wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:We've all seen the lists where by far the most "elite" QBs are drafted in first, more close to the top than not. The problem is taking a second rounder in the first and thinking that makes them a first round talent with elite upside just because "Now we have a first round QB!" Turds don't polish that way.



OJ Simpson.... not a jew.

IDK, just reminds of of this whole "elite" thing we throw around.

NFL Player Passing Statistics - 2013

Statistics: Passing | Rushing | Receiving | Scoring | Returning | Kicking | Punting | Defense
Season:
League:
Qualified | All Players
NFL Total QBR »
Passer Rating Leaders - Qualified
RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G
1 Nick Foles, QB PHI 135 218 61.9 1,970 9.04 63 20 1 17 120.0 197
2 Peyton Manning, QB DEN 366 539 67.9 4,522 8.39 78 45 9 15 114.5 348
3 Josh McCown, QB CHI 147 220 66.8 1,809 8.22 80 13 1 11 109.8 258
4 Aaron Rodgers, QB GB 168 251 66.9 2,218 8.84 83 15 4 18 108.0 277
5 Russell Wilson, QB SEA 213 330 64.5 2,871 8.70 80 23 7 32 106.5 221
6 Drew Brees, QB NO 353 519 68.0 4,107 7.91 69 33 8 26 106.5 316
7 Philip Rivers, QB SD 325 462 70.3 3,882 8.40 60 26 9 24 106.4 299
8 Tony Romo, QB DAL 296 460 64.3 3,244 7.05 82 27 7 30 98.3 250
9 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 320 500 64.0 3,724 7.45 62 24 10 39 94.1 286
10 Sam Bradford, QB STL 159 262 60.7 1,687 6.44 73 14 4 15 90.9 241

If we can agree you minimally have to be top 10 to be "elite", and IDK if we can, here's my count for the here and now; not 2009. To me, eliete is as elite does, else why not include Eli? If we cherry pick the Brady's I'm not sure that bolsters the position.

Top 5 overall - 2
UFA - 3
First Round other - 2
UDFA undrafted - 1
3rd round - 2

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating


Elite is holding trophies in February, that's what separates Eli from Romo and Rivers.

Now, for your trivia question, name the last guy who held up a trophy in February (or January) that wasn't drafted in the first two rounds.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:50 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Elite is holding trophies in February, that's what separates Eli from Romo and Rivers.



This POV is why I break into cold sweats thinking about a half decade killing draft reach for Boris Bortles or David Derek Carr 5th overall.

If Eli isn't example one of how a "franchise QB" is manufactured, IDK who is.

Like to go back in time to 1980 and count those holding trophies that lacked all pro/pro bowl type RBs?
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:55 pm

jb wrote:Boris Bortles


:thumbup
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:13 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:You know a thread has gone to hell when people are quoting me and the things I deleted.

And BTW, none of you know dick about anything. You type shit so you can read it back to yourselves and enjoy the sense of self fellatio it gives you.

This forum should be nuked.


Best post ever.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:14 pm

jb wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:So you would suck your own dick if you could reach it? Wery wery intervesting, Mr. Baker.



In the interest of full disclosure, IDK for sure if I would try it or not.


I'm not sure full disclosure was needed in this situation.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:07 pm

jb wrote:This POV is why I break into cold sweats thinking about a half decade killing draft reach for Boris Bortles or David Derek Carr 5th overall.

If Eli isn't example one of how a "franchise QB" is manufactured, IDK who is.

Like to go back in time to 1980 and count those holding trophies that lacked all pro/pro bowl type RBs?


The helmet catch was manufactured? The sideline throw to Manningham? Flacco to Boldin? Heck, we could probably go all the way back to The Catch.

You can trot out all the QB ratings you want. Its a passing league, sure. Once the teams match up far more evenly in the postseason, the margin of error drops like a rock and every pass counts. That's where the 'elites' like Eli separate themselves from the Romos of the world. That's why there hasn't been an unarguably non-elite QB to hold up a trophy since Brad Johnson. Who, incidentally, is also the last QB to hoist a trophy that wasn't drafted in the first two rounds.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:58 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
jb wrote:This POV is why I break into cold sweats thinking about a half decade killing draft reach for Boris Bortles or David Derek Carr 5th overall.

If Eli isn't example one of how a "franchise QB" is manufactured, IDK who is.

Like to go back in time to 1980 and count those holding trophies that lacked all pro/pro bowl type RBs?


The helmet catch was manufactured? The sideline throw to Manningham? Flacco to Boldin? Heck, we could probably go all the way back to The Catch.

You can trot out all the QB ratings you want. Its a passing league, sure. Once the teams match up far more evenly in the postseason, the margin of error drops like a rock and every pass counts. That's where the 'elites' like Eli separate themselves from the Romos of the world. That's why there hasn't been an unarguably non-elite QB to hold up a trophy since Brad Johnson. Who, incidentally, is also the last QB to hoist a trophy that wasn't drafted in the first two rounds.



I will trot out all the QB ratings I want. By and large that is what determines "good" from " bad".

When Eli had a dominating defense on the other side of the ball, a punishing, productive running game, and a vet healthy OL, he had a strong rating. Now that those things are gone, he's 33rd.

So how is he the "franchise"?

He's not.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:59 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:So you would suck your own dick if you could reach it? Wery wery intervesting, Mr. Baker.



In the interest of full disclosure, IDK for sure if I would try it or not.


I'm not sure full disclosure was needed in this situation.



Heh.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:03 pm

I applaud your honesty, JB. Every guy has though about it. Those who say they haven't are full of poo.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:41 pm

This was interesting article to me:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/ ... fresh=true

Changes in how frequently QBs face duress can warp their overall stats. Despite that insane connection to David Tyree in Super Bowl XLII, Manning doesn't throw well when rushed: In the past three seasons, his QBR has cratered by 56.5 points (from 69.3 to 12.8!) under duress, the second-biggest decline among starters. Manning is not easily rattled. Rather, he has an excellent deep touch, so much so that for the past five seasons, the Giants have structured their offense around Manning dropping back a mile, staying in the pocket forever and hurling bombs. But this season, behind an ineffective O-line and a nonexistent running game, Manning, though resilient, has been a sitting duck: He's been hassled on 19.9 percent of plays, up from 15.4 percent the previous two seasons. Matt Ryan, same deal: He's been under duress on 23.3 percent of plays in 2013, up from 14.4 percent in 2011 and 2012 -- and his QBR plunges 52.2 points in those situations.


Jay Cutler is at one extreme; he's the only starter since 2011 whose QBR has actually increased (from 54.8 to 63.9) under duress. Say what you want about Cutler, who has battled groin and ankle injuries this year and has had seasons in which he's lost bushels of points to sacks and fumbles: In the face of danger, the man keeps his composure.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:50 pm

This thread has taken many interesting turns.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:04 pm

jb wrote:So how is he the "franchise"?


Because when the team needed to rely on him to win in January, he produced. Twice. Same with Flacco. And Brady. And Rodgers. And Brees. And even Peyton snuck in a trophy, he might have number two when we're all said and done next month.

If you're all about feel-good wins in November and disappointment in January, then, sure, whatever. Jason Campbell yay. Oddly enough, some of us are aiming higher.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:09 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
jb wrote:So how is he the "franchise"?


Because when the team needed to rely on him to win in January, he produced. Twice. Same with Flacco. And Brady. And Rodgers. And Brees. And even Peyton snuck in a trophy, he might have number two when we're all said and done next month.

If you're all about feel-good wins in November and disappointment in January, then, sure, whatever. Jason Campbell yay. Oddly enough, some of us are aiming higher.


I don't think 'elite' has ever been argued in terms of what you're aiming for.

Which of those 'elite' guys won when they were first or 2nd year players? And in the rare case 'elite' guy wins early in career, how good is the team?

Point being you can be better by being better on your way to where you want to be.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:15 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Jay Cutler is at one extreme; he's the only starter since 2011 whose QBR has actually increased (from 54.8 to 63.9) under duress. Say what you want about Cutler, who has battled groin and ankle injuries this year and has had seasons in which he's lost bushels of points to sacks and fumbles: In the face of danger, the man keeps his composure.


It'll never happen, most likely as a result of no interest from either side, so it probably isn't worth too much discussion, but if Cutler hits the open market, any QB-needy teams that don't pursue him are stoopid. Even the team picking #1 overall.

Not us, of course. We won't pursue him, because we're too smart for that.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:23 pm

All goes back to the chicken or the egg question, which comes first elite QB or the Superbowl ring?
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:25 pm

Hikohadon wrote:This thread has taken many interesting turns.


Yeah like learning crap like Jay Cutler's QBR "under duress".

Holy fuckballs on a clown's chin.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby justmebd » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:04 pm

Fun Fact: I can tell what scene is on in the original Star Wars trilogy from another room just by the music.

Fun Fact No. 2: While Bourbon is required to be made up of at least 51% corn, any spirit composed of more than 80% corn becomes "Corn Whisky" and no longer is considered Bourbon.

CDT said this thread was taking interesting turns, so I thought I'd go for something completely different.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:41 pm

Hiko said it was taking interesting turns.

I just gifed up the thread with the most intelligent posts so far and brought up self fellatio.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:02 pm

I can taste the difference between Hersheys chocolate syrup out of a plastic bottle and out of a can.
Last edited by FUDU on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:02 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
jb wrote:So how is he the "franchise"?


Because when the team needed to rely on him to win in January, he produced. Twice. Same with Flacco. And Brady. And Rodgers. And Brees. And even Peyton snuck in a trophy, he might have number two when we're all said and done next month.

If you're all about feel-good wins in November and disappointment in January, then, sure, whatever. Jason Campbell yay. Oddly enough, some of us are aiming higher.



This take is horrific.

Do Dilfer, Hostetler, Johnson & Rypien get into your pantheon while Marino & Fouts can fuck a goat?

Farve gets in because Des Howard can return kicks. Cap is out & Flacco in thanks to refs.

Complete BS.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:03 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
jb wrote:So how is he the "franchise"?


Because when the team needed to rely on him to win in January, he produced. Twice. Same with Flacco. And Brady. And Rodgers. And Brees. And even Peyton snuck in a trophy, he might have number two when we're all said and done next month.

If you're all about feel-good wins in November and disappointment in January, then, sure, whatever. Jason Campbell yay. Oddly enough, some of us are aiming higher.


I don't think 'elite' has ever been argued in terms of what you're aiming for.

Which of those 'elite' guys won when they were first or 2nd year players? And in the rare case 'elite' guy wins early in career, how good is the team?

Point being you can be better by being better on your way to where you want to be.


Dude that's the volunteer Army's new recruiting slogan.
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