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2014 College QB Thread

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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:38 am

FUDU wrote:Well you aint saying nothing slick to a can of oil.

You're not Nostrafreakingsdamus with those statements. I don't really disagree, but citing the QB ratings chart as proof of your theory is hogwash. You ignore all the surrounding circumstances. Foles isn't doing much without that strong balance of the running game, and let's get some sample sizes before getting all giddy about it. That same list of ratings shows that other thing that gets stated over and over again, top stud picks in the draft.

Frankly I think you've been trying too hard to wake up everyday and find the secret to success in this game. It's a team game, you need a good guy at the helm, that's not a newsflash hot off the wire.



You do realize you're making / reinforcing my point that you don't need a Waiting for Gadot approach or are you still the customary 2-3 weeks from that ray of light?
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:43 am

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:Exactly what are you trying to tell everyone with the QB rating page JB?



It's obvious fudu


It's not obvious at all, b/c anyone can take many different things from that list, spin or manipulate as they want.

It's a stat like anything else, can tell you some things, not tell you others, relative to circumstance and sample size.

I know one thing right off the bat, Nick Foles isn't a better QB than the next 6 guys on that list, and 8 of of 10 overall.



Bullshit Donny. Better is as better plays. The rest is fan boi trading card crap.

The past is fixating on landing a great QB.

The present is focusing on great QB play.


Those are SO different.



Yes. Yes they are.

You have eyes but you won't see.

I don't believe for one second that Foles is better than Luck. But I know for a stone cold fact the Eagles are getting far better QB play from Foles than the Colts are from Luck.

Conclusion is they built a better team from coach to OC to other O players. They didn't wring hands & Dick around goin boo hoo we have to play a 3rd round prospect. Ditto Seattle. And all the Os with QBs not led by Luck & RG3 and their 80 fuckin ratings and mediocre play.

So Donny here's what you should see:

You are either lucky enough to have an established consistent vet QB or you stfu and build your team and stop crying about QB and reaching for franchise killing charlatans

Laugh out loud at the concept that Foles is playing well bc Philly "built the cockpit". They have some nice skill players, meh O line, meh D. Team looked like shit with Vick.

I'm not gonna assume the QB they draft is any more likely to be a bust than any of the other guys they take.


Keep working on it and get back to me.

If you think the correct conclusion is Foles is lightening is a bottle messiah keep plugging away there Hoss.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:51 am

jb wrote:Keep working on it and get back to me.

If you think the correct conclusion is Foles is lightening is a bottle messiah keep plugging away there Hoss.


No, the fact that a team that was bare bones last year and played like crap under one QB and well under the other is clearly because Philly "built the cockpit".

::doh::

Hows about we both just agree that we think each other are being stupid about this and move on from this conversation?
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:34 am

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Keep working on it and get back to me.

If you think the correct conclusion is Foles is lightening is a bottle messiah keep plugging away there Hoss.


No, the fact that a team that was bare bones last year and played like crap under one QB and well under the other is clearly because Philly "built the cockpit".

::doh::

Hows about we both just agree that we think each other are being stupid about this and move on from this conversation?



Now how can I do that when I'm right & ur wrong ? Lol.

Good thing all Philly did was change QBs this off season!
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:36 am

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Keep working on it and get back to me.

If you think the correct conclusion is Foles is lightening is a bottle messiah keep plugging away there Hoss.


No, the fact that a team that was bare bones last year and played like crap under one QB and well under the other is clearly because Philly "built the cockpit".

::doh::

Hows about we both just agree that we think each other are being stupid about this and move on from this conversation?



Now how can I do that when I'm right & ur wrong ? Lol.

Good thing all Philly did was change QBs this off season!


Yes, they were just a couple draft picks away from "cockpitting" their way to a division crown with just any ol' schmoe at QB.

:bunny:
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:00 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Keep working on it and get back to me.

If you think the correct conclusion is Foles is lightening is a bottle messiah keep plugging away there Hoss.


No, the fact that a team that was bare bones last year and played like crap under one QB and well under the other is clearly because Philly "built the cockpit".

::doh::

Hows about we both just agree that we think each other are being stupid about this and move on from this conversation?



Now how can I do that when I'm right & ur wrong ? Lol.

Good thing all Philly did was change QBs this off season!


Yes, they were just a couple draft picks away from "cockpitting" their way to a division crown with just any ol' schmoe at QB.

:bunny:



Help me Hoo Doo Man.

You're my only hope.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:11 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Keep working on it and get back to me.

If you think the correct conclusion is Foles is lightening is a bottle messiah keep plugging away there Hoss.


No, the fact that a team that was bare bones last year and played like crap under one QB and well under the other is clearly because Philly "built the cockpit".

::doh::

Hows about we both just agree that we think each other are being stupid about this and move on from this conversation?



Now how can I do that when I'm right & ur wrong ? Lol.

Good thing all Philly did was change QBs this off season!


Yes, they were just a couple draft picks away from "cockpitting" their way to a division crown with just any ol' schmoe at QB.

:bunny:



Help me Hoo Doo Man.

You're my only hope.


He can't, because it's a terrible example. It actually demonstrates the opposite of the point you were trying to make.

The example you were looking for is Cincy.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:46 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Keep working on it and get back to me.

If you think the correct conclusion is Foles is lightening is a bottle messiah keep plugging away there Hoss.


No, the fact that a team that was bare bones last year and played like crap under one QB and well under the other is clearly because Philly "built the cockpit".

::doh::

Hows about we both just agree that we think each other are being stupid about this and move on from this conversation?



Now how can I do that when I'm right & ur wrong ? Lol.

Good thing all Philly did was change QBs this off season!


Yes, they were just a couple draft picks away from "cockpitting" their way to a division crown with just any ol' schmoe at QB.

:bunny:



Help me Hoo Doo Man.

You're my only hope.


He can't, because it's a terrible example. It actually demonstrates the opposite of the point you were trying to make.

The example you were looking for is Cincy.


You truly think that Nick Foles showed up deus ex mechina and is the new stud, don't you? You think that is what Foles, Glennan, Wilson, McKown and other examples demonstrate?

You still think it's all about the QB in a vacuum.

BTW - This whole thing started with you insisting we had to pick a QB high in the draft. That prospect QB's were a complete and utter waste of time based on the past (which they used to be). Who is reinforcing whom's point?
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:49 pm

TINSTAAQBP

There is no such thing as a QB prospect.

ETA:

WAIT!

TINSTAAOTAQBP

There is no such thing as anything OTHER than a QB PROSPECT.

That's way more truthful.

Carry on....
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:23 pm

jb wrote:You truly think that Nick Foles showed up deus ex mechina and is the new stud, don't you? You think that is what Foles, Glennan, Wilson, McKown and other examples demonstrate?

You still think it's all about the QB in a vacuum.

BTW - This whole thing started with you insisting we had to pick a QB high in the draft. That prospect QB's were a complete and utter waste of time based on the past (which they used to be). Who is reinforcing whom's point?


Screw you for making me take this stance (since I don't want to believe it either), but the evidence is clear. Philly was a terrible team last year. They'd been bad for a couple years. The cupboard was bare talent-wise. They were hot garbage at the start of the year. Then Foles takes over and plays (from what the stats show, I haven't watched too many of their games) nearly flawlessly and suddenly this is a playoff team.

Maybe the system just fits Foles or maybe he will later be exposed, but RIGHT NOW Foles is playing at a very high level. It isn't a situation where the team is carrying him, it's the opposite. Sure, McCoy helps, but it isn't like he wasn't playing well for all those terrible Eagles teams too.

If Foles gets hurt and Vick has to go back in, do I think the team will play as well as it has? No. I think they will revert to blech.

If, say, Dalton were to go to Philly, do I think the team would play as well as it has? Doubtful. Hard to say, since it might be a system thing, but I'm pretty sure Dalton is what he is.

I don't know what Foles is yet at this point, but despite my preconceptions, the evidence so far has shown him to be a GOOD QB. I would not be surprised if he fell by the wayside eventually, but right now there's no evidence that points to that being a certainty.

(And, yes, Foles backs up your point that the Browns could get a franchise QB in the 3rd, which I don't dispute, just that when teams find franchise QB's in the 3rd it's more often than not blind luck rather than a calculated move, and I'm not overly excited about trusting the QB position to blind luck. No team drafts a guy in the 3rd saying "Hot Damn! We're set for 10 years now!")

The case that you're looking for where a team clearly built up over a period of time so that it would give even a mediocre-to-decent QB a good chance to exhibit "good QB play" would be Cincy, and their business model is not one I care to duplicate since I'm afraid it leaves you always just short of the goal.

And... for the love of Christ I don't know how many times I have to say this... OF COURSE IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE QB, BUT THERE IS NO DOUBTING THAT IT IS EASILY THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE TEAM AND LIFE IS MUCH FUCKING EASIER IF YOU HAVE A REALLY GOOD ONE THAN TRYING TO FIND REALLY GOOD PLAYERS AT ALMOST EVERY OTHER POSITION IN ORDER TO CARRY A MEDIOCRE ONE TO A CROWN.

And... OF COURSE YOU DON'T TAKE A QB THAT YOU FEEL IS CRAP JUST TO TAKE ONE, BUT IF YOU IDENTIFY A QB OR TWO THAT YOU THINK CAN BE REALLY GOOD YOU MIGHT JUST NEED TO OVERPAY TO ENSURE YOU GET HIM.

And... A VAST MAJORITY OF THE REALLY GOOD QB'S IN THE NFL WERE PICKED IN THE FIRST 2 ROUNDS, SO THERE'S A LIKELIHOOD THAT MIGHT BE THE PRICE YOU HAVE TO PAY.

And... THE FUTURE IS UNKNOWN, YOU CAN'T JUST SAY "OH WELL, WE'LL JUST DRAFT A QB NEXT YEAR" EVERY YEAR SINCE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE NEXT YEAR WILL BRING WITH QB'S RETURNING OR GETTING INJURED OR GETTING ARRESTED OR DEMONSTRATING NEW WEAKNESSES.

And... EVERY YEAR WE HAVE A SHIT SANDWICH AT QB IS ANOTHER YEAR WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR THIS MYSTICAL "GREAT QB WE DRAFT NEXT YEAR" TO DEVELOP, PROVIDED WE DON'T PUSH DRAFTING HIM OUT TO INFINITY.

QB is one of the top needs/weaknesses on this team RIGHT NOW. As you would with any position, identify the best solution to fix the problem THIS OFFSEASON. And as with any other position (even more so), if your fix fails, you'll be in position to try again real soon.
Last edited by Hikohadon on Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:25 pm

Hikohadon wrote:QB is one of the top needs/weaknesses on this team RIGHT NOW.



Actually, it's not.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:28 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:QB is one of the top needs/weaknesses on this team RIGHT NOW.



Actually, it's not.


OK, you and I clearly are not going to be close to agreeing on this if you believe that basketful of shit.

::doh:: ::doh:: ::doh::

I'd rather sign Craig Robertson to a 10 year contract than go into next year with Campbell and Hoyer as the only QB prospects.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:41 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:QB is one of the top needs/weaknesses on this team RIGHT NOW.



Actually, it's not.


OK, you and I clearly are not going to be close to agreeing on this if you believe that basketful of shit.

::doh:: ::doh:: ::doh::

I'd rather sign Craig Robertson to a 10 year contract than go into next year with Campbell and Hoyer as the only QB prospects.



I'd like a prospect as well. But as far as "problem" positions and need?

WR (the other non-Grodon position)
RB
S
ORT
ILB

and then you strat to approach QB.

The Browns get solid, NFL QB play when Hoyer and Campbell are healthy and start. Occasionally they get high quality QB play.

can't say that about the positions.

You surround those two guys with a solid team AND coaching, we could be Philly.

Is that enough?

No. But it end the RS.

Beats fuck outta reaching for Carr top 10.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:16 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:QB is one of the top needs/weaknesses on this team RIGHT NOW.



Actually, it's not.


OK, you and I clearly are not going to be close to agreeing on this if you believe that basketful of shit.

::doh:: ::doh:: ::doh::

I'd rather sign Craig Robertson to a 10 year contract than go into next year with Campbell and Hoyer as the only QB prospects.



I'd like a prospect as well. But as far as "problem" positions and need?

WR (the other non-Grodon position)
RB
S
ORT
ILB

and then you strat to approach QB.

The Browns get solid, NFL QB play when Hoyer and Campbell are healthy and start. Occasionally they get high quality QB play.

can't say that about the positions.

You surround those two guys with a solid team AND coaching, we could be Philly.

Is that enough?

No. But it end the RS.

Beats fuck outta reaching for Carr top 10.


Disagree.

You occasionally also get high quality play out of the RT, RB, 2nd WR, S, and ILB positions. More often than not, you don't.

Just like QB.

Brian Hoyer and Jason Campbell are to their position what Greg Little, Chris Ogbannaya, Tashaun Gipson, Mitchell Schwarz, and Craig Robertson are to theirs.

This is our disconnect.

I see Campbell as the Robertson of Quarterbacking, and since they both need replaced I choose to put more emphasis on the position of greater importance.

We will not come close to agreeing on this if you think replacing Tashaun Gipson is more important to the team than replacing Jason Campbell. It is an impossibility.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:04 pm

jb wrote:Help me Hoo Doo Man.

You're my only hope.


Caught napping...

Eh,

-There's a handful of great QBs who can succeed almost in spite of the awfulness of their supporting casts
-There's a handful of awful QBs who can fail almost in spite of the greatness of their supporting casts
-There's a bunch of QBs in between

And even if "trinary" was a word, those categories wouldn't be so rigidly defined. The QB/cast relationship is a case of opposing spectrums, I think.

We see it this way, and we're right. We've seen it this way for a decade+ and we've been right for a decade+.

In that time we've seen "have to get a franchise RB to match the franchise RBs in our division," we've seen "have to get that franchise LT," we've seen "defense wins championships," and now we're seeing "QBz! QBz! QBz! This is the new NFL! Rule changes and stuff!" Whether the people saying those things are always the same people, shrug! But it sure feels that way. And the herd will no doubt move on from this to something equally wrongheaded as soon as the next gotta-gotta-have-it pattern for NFL success comes along. And like Browns QBs, you'd like to hope and believe that the next one won't be so exasperating, but it will almost certainly be at least as bad if not worse.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:01 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
Brian Hoyer and Jason Campbell are to their position what Greg Little, Chris Ogbannaya, Tashaun Gipson, Mitchell Schwarz, and Craig Robertson are to theirs.

This is our disconnect.



So we should expect Craig Robertson and Gipson and Schwartz to have decade long careers in the NFL like Campbell?

You're nuts buddy.

Campbell is much more akin to a D'Quell Jackson.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Govbarney » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:27 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
jb wrote:Help me Hoo Doo Man.
You're my only hope.

....In that time we've seen "have to get a franchise RB to match the franchise RBs in our division," we've seen "have to get that franchise LT," we've seen "defense wins championships," and now we're seeing "QBz! QBz! QBz! This is the new NFL! Rule changes and stuff!" Whether the people saying those things are always the same people, shrug! But it sure feels that way. And the herd will no doubt move on from this to something equally wrongheaded as soon as the next gotta-gotta-have-it pattern for NFL success comes along. And like Browns QBs, you'd like to hope and believe that the next one won't be so exasperating, but it will almost certainly be at least as bad if not worse.


The Browns have always been Trend Followers , not Trend Setters. Until they can get some Forward thinking FO types , and Forward thinking Coaches, they will always be playing a game of catch up they cant possibly win. The trends they are chasing change to fast.

It has yet to be scene if the current regime is capable of thinking outside the box, but the fact that they pursued Chip Kelly, and traded away TRich when the status quo said it was foolish, gives me reason for hope.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:33 pm

Govbarney wrote:It has yet to be scene if the current regime is capable of thinking outside the box, but the fact that they pursued Chip Kelly, and traded away TRich when the status quo said it was foolish, gives me reason for hope.


I've read where we strongly considered EJ Manuel at 6 last year. This gives me reason for concern.

Derek Carr = skeeery.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:45 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
Brian Hoyer and Jason Campbell are to their position what Greg Little, Chris Ogbannaya, Tashaun Gipson, Mitchell Schwarz, and Craig Robertson are to theirs.

This is our disconnect.



So we should expect Craig Robertson and Gipson and Schwartz to have decade long careers in the NFL like Campbell?

You're nuts buddy.

Campbell is much more akin to a D'Quell Jackson.


Image

Ahahahahahaha!

Yeah, if DQ came into the league, sucked ass, got benched, and spent his last several years holding clipboards and fetching gatorade.

We are done here.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:08 pm

We are done here.


Image
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:11 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
We are done here.


Image


All right, what's that one from? Looks like either Jason or Michael.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:13 pm

You're killin' me, Smalls. Friday The 13th VII.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:16 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:You're killin' me, Smalls. Friday The 13th VII.


Those are not memorable, whereas The Thing is (the Smalls line).
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:41 pm

2 for 1.

Image

Pretend Weeden is in one of those sleeping bags.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:00 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:2 for 1.

Image

Pretend Weeden is in one of those sleeping bags.


That would be a dude beating Weeden with Colt.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby justmebd » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:21 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
We are done here.


Image

This is one of my all-time favorite Jason murders.

+10
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:56 pm

Hikohadon wrote:That would be a dude beating Weeden with Colt.


Makes perfect sense. Colt is lighter and Jason can build up more velocity. Plus Weeds could never find his way out of a sleeping bag.


justmebd wrote: This is one of my all-time favorite Jason murders.

+10


Mine too.

Part 6 (my personal favorite F-13th) had some great ones too. The cop getting folded in half, the guy getting his face rammed into the tree and leaving a bloody smiley face.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:20 am

Man CDT, you watched em all?
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:27 am

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
Brian Hoyer and Jason Campbell are to their position what Greg Little, Chris Ogbannaya, Tashaun Gipson, Mitchell Schwarz, and Craig Robertson are to theirs.

This is our disconnect.



So we should expect Craig Robertson and Gipson and Schwartz to have decade long careers in the NFL like Campbell?

You're nuts buddy.

Campbell is much more akin to a D'Quell Jackson.


Image

Ahahahahahaha!

Yeah, if DQ came into the league, sucked ass, got benched, and spent his last several years holding clipboards and fetching gatorade.

We are done here.


I know. If I had ur side of this I'd run for the cover of some BS hyperbole and a wanna be kill shot to.

But it ain't so.

Campbell had a typical rookie skuffle phase 1 career in a moribund dysfunctional setting. He didn't "suck". He was average/below average serviceable. Went onto Oakland & played well. Did a short back up stint in Chicago. Career mid 80 rating drug down by his rookie season & spot play in Chitown. Now as a vet he gets a shot. 3 very good games and 2 clunkers with banged up ribs. 88 rating this season.

He's a decade long serviceable vet. Not great but promises to be solid if healthy. Eventually we need a prospect to be better. The guys you described are flat out bums. They'll be extremely fortunate & need career turnarounds to have Campbell's career. Somehow this pales in comparisons to Jackson, a mediocre career journeyman on an awful team that sat out 2 entire seasons on IR. So radically different from JC.

Yeah, Id take the off ramp too.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:54 am

If Jason Campbell is Taeshaun Gipson I wonder who Josh McCown is? Johnson Baddimosi?

I'd hate to be on either side of your take Hiko.

Either these guys are dismissible ass clowns if they aren't HOF or borderline HOF or teams are making ass clowns look like very good QBs .

Either take in untennable in 2013.

Post another gif. :clap:
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:09 am

If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, why are we talking about Jason Campbell? If the Browns don't draft a QB, run with Campbell, and magically improve, it will only make it that much harder to get a QB that can win a Super Bowl in subsequent years.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:37 am

jb wrote:If Jason Campbell is Taeshaun Gipson I wonder who Josh McCown is? Johnson Baddimosi?

I'd hate to be on either side of your take Hiko.

Either these guys are dismissible ass clowns if they aren't HOF or borderline HOF or teams are making ass clowns look like very good QBs .

Either take in untennable in 2013.

Post another gif. :clap:


Not good enough to be a long term answer. If you want to take a run at a trophy with him this year, fine, but McCown is not an answer that I would want my team to present to me for the entire 2014 season.

I don't give a fuck about HOF, I want long term answer, not band aid journeymen that play good enough one week and then like hot garbage the next week. It's like the Cincy and PIT games never happened bc he played pretty well against the Pats. There is a universe of QB's in between Peyton Manning and Jason Campbell - you can easily improve the fucking position without having to search for the next Joe Montana.

I've told you this a zillion times, so I'm not sure if you're doing the Peeker-purposely-misrepresent-the-poster-to-engage-debate thing or you just dense, but I want to make it clear that I am not interested in pursuing any "Jason Campbell is good enough" conversations on a go forward basis because he just fuckin' ain't. IMHO, of course.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:38 am

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, why are we talking about Jason Campbell? If the Browns don't draft a QB, run with Campbell, and magically improve, it will only make it that much harder to get a QB that can win a Super Bowl in subsequent years.



two things....

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating


Look at the best perennial QBs. The one's you consider SB worthy and elite.
Now look at how they were acquired for their current teams.

Now look at the QB's still on their current teams you consider good enough to win a SB on TEAMS good enough to win a SB. Were they great prospects drafted top 10 or even round one or were they prospects added to already good teams?

The guys drafted top 5 that are with their current teams that are a) good enough to win a SB (my definition if probably broader than most) and b ) on teams good enough to win a Sb are in the distinct minority.

If you think all of this is about debating whether Jason Campbell is good enough to win a Super Bowl, you miss the point as surely as Hiko, BTW. That's not the issue. The issues are:

- How to be a playoff team at QB in 2013,
- How to build a perennial 4 win team to playoff contention, playoffs, contender, champion and what is the wisest tack to take?
- What are really the musts to have when it comes to a QB that can win you a SB and how that player can be obtained.

Jason Campebll is a side show; a red herring. My only point is he's a solid vet stop-gap and not a scrub held to derision.

If you apply 2009 thinking you are going to be chasing 2009.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:39 am

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, why are we talking about Jason Campbell? If the Browns don't draft a QB, run with Campbell, and magically improve, it will only make it that much harder to get a QB that can win a Super Bowl in subsequent years.


This kind of logic seems easy to achieve, but apparently there are some that appear hellbent on digging to China with a spoon.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:43 am

Hikohadon wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, why are we talking about Jason Campbell? If the Browns don't draft a QB, run with Campbell, and magically improve, it will only make it that much harder to get a QB that can win a Super Bowl in subsequent years.


This kind of logic seems easy to achieve, but apparently there are some that appear hellbent on digging to China with a spoon.



When you can't win on the issue, one resorts to this.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:47 am

- How to build a perennial 4 win team to playoff contention, playoffs, contender, champion and what is the wisest tack to take?



The only answer to this question and the only answer that matters: Find a Franchise QB.


I don't want to middle around at 7-9 or 8-8 and then make the playoffs at 9-7 every 2-3 years only to get blown out. That shouldn't be a goal for the Browns either. I want the Browns to get a Franchise QB they can control for a decade to ensure some stability in this putrid organization.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:48 am

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:If Jason Campbell is Taeshaun Gipson I wonder who Josh McCown is? Johnson Baddimosi?

I'd hate to be on either side of your take Hiko.

Either these guys are dismissible ass clowns if they aren't HOF or borderline HOF or teams are making ass clowns look like very good QBs .

Either take in untennable in 2013.

Post another gif. :clap:


Not good enough to be a long term answer. If you want to take a run at a trophy with him this year, fine, but McCown is not an answer that I would want my team to present to me for the entire 2014 season.

I don't give a fuck about HOF, I want long term answer, not band aid journeymen that play good enough one week and then like hot garbage the next week. It's like the Cincy and PIT games never happened bc he played pretty well against the Pats. There is a universe of QB's in between Peyton Manning and Jason Campbell - you can easily improve the fucking position without having to search for the next Joe Montana.

I've told you this a zillion times, so I'm not sure if you're doing the Peeker-purposely-misrepresent-the-poster-to-engage-debate thing or you just dense, but I want to make it clear that I am not interested in pursuing any "Jason Campbell is good enough" conversations on a go forward basis because he just fuckin' ain't. IMHO, of course.



And yet for some reason that is the piece on ground upon which you plant your flag for battle. You miss the part of the equation where the real question that matters is whether he is "good enough for what and for how long" and how does this relate to your hell bent intent on reaching for a QB in the draft.

Really, you've corrupted the thread with sloth and hyperbole for yucks.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:49 am

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
- How to build a perennial 4 win team to playoff contention, playoffs, contender, champion and what is the wisest tack to take?



The only answer to this question and the only answer that matters: Find a Franchise QB.




And this is utter and complete bull shit that is currently unrelated to any current NFL reality.

You arrive at a conclusion and defend it to the last in the face of all objective evidence.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:49 am

Look at the best perennial QBs. The one's you consider SB worthy and elite.
Now look at how they were acquired for their current teams.



How each of the other 31 teams acquired their current QB has no bearing on how the Browns will acquire their future QB. I don't care how they do it, just fucking do it. If it were up to me, I'd tank all of 2014 to try and get Jameis. Nobody has impressed me this year, even Teddy is pretty blah.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:49 am

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, why are we talking about Jason Campbell? If the Browns don't draft a QB, run with Campbell, and magically improve, it will only make it that much harder to get a QB that can win a Super Bowl in subsequent years.


This kind of logic seems easy to achieve, but apparently there are some that appear hellbent on digging to China with a spoon.



When you can't win on the issue, one resorts to this.


There is no win, dumbass. There ain't no score. These are what scholars call "opinions". I think you stoopid, you think I'm wrong.

Can we end the useless debate where - yes - NOBODY wins?
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:51 am

jb wrote:If Jason Campbell is Taeshaun Gipson I wonder who Josh McCown is? Johnson Baddimosi?

I'd hate to be on either side of your take Hiko.

Either these guys are dismissible ass clowns if they aren't HOF or borderline HOF or teams are making ass clowns look like very good QBs .

Either take in untennable in 2013.

Post another gif. :clap:


SD:

Didn't the same Josh McCown piss down his leg as a rookie in the Beefalo game with us , because it was too cold , reclaim the thrown to a Gannon comeback last night at 34 years old posting a plus 125 rating running an offense that didn't punt in minus 10 below wind chills last night.

Could it be Jason at 32 could be entering his prime.

I'm so down with sandwiching a ute in between a Campbell Hoyer Oreo , I don't know what to tell ya.

And I want to use both number ones to pick the bridge to finish that sandwich, not just any QB

Butt the best in this draft.

And give myself the best chance to make that combo work.

Edit;

Earp my bad , wrong McCown, just a bum who played for 10 years and never done nothing, same difference

Butt look at him now , that's the point.

System opportunity light switches epiiphany and opportunity and all that.




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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:52 am

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, why are we talking about Jason Campbell? If the Browns don't draft a QB, run with Campbell, and magically improve, it will only make it that much harder to get a QB that can win a Super Bowl in subsequent years.


This kind of logic seems easy to achieve, but apparently there are some that appear hellbent on digging to China with a spoon.



When you can't win on the issue, one resorts to this.


There is no win, dumbass. There ain't no score. These are what scholars call "opinions". I think you stoopid, you think I'm wrong.

Can we end the useless debate where - yes - NOBODY wins?


No. Not really.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, jeffry Lebowski, but not his own facts.

If one wants to fabricate bullshit and cling to it in peace, then don't keep posting it on a public discussion forum where the whole purpose for its existence is to discuss and debate.

It's like putting pie out in your dorm room and crying cause it got eaten.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:53 am

Hikohadon wrote: These are what scholars call "opinions".



I'm still LOLZ at this, BTW.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:54 am

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
Look at the best perennial QBs. The one's you consider SB worthy and elite.
Now look at how they were acquired for their current teams.



How each of the other 31 teams acquired their current QB has no bearing on how the Browns will acquire their future QB.



It has absolutely everything to do with it.

Unless you want Lombardi to go counter and show you how smart he is.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:55 am

Didn't the same Josh McCown piss down his leg as a rookie in the Beefalo game with us , because it was too cold , reclaim the thrown to a Gannon comeback last night at 34 years old posting a plus 125 rating running an offense that didn't punt in minus 10 below wind chills last night.



Here's SD right on time to champion an also-ran career backup QB after beating the Cowboys in December.


:bunny:
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:00 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
Didn't the same Josh McCown piss down his leg as a rookie in the Beefalo game with us , because it was too cold , reclaim the thrown to a Gannon comeback last night at 34 years old posting a plus 125 rating running an offense that didn't punt in minus 10 below wind chills last night.



Here's SD right on time to champion an also-ran career backup QB after beating the Cowboys in December.


:bunny:



I read SD to say he still wants to bundle & trade up, SD explain yourself man!
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:05 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:If Jason Campbell is Taeshaun Gipson I wonder who Josh McCown is? Johnson Baddimosi?

I'd hate to be on either side of your take Hiko.

Either these guys are dismissible ass clowns if they aren't HOF or borderline HOF or teams are making ass clowns look like very good QBs .

Either take in untennable in 2013.

Post another gif. :clap:


Not good enough to be a long term answer. If you want to take a run at a trophy with him this year, fine, but McCown is not an answer that I would want my team to present to me for the entire 2014 season.

I don't give a fuck about HOF, I want long term answer, not band aid journeymen that play good enough one week and then like hot garbage the next week. It's like the Cincy and PIT games never happened bc he played pretty well against the Pats. There is a universe of QB's in between Peyton Manning and Jason Campbell - you can easily improve the fucking position without having to search for the next Joe Montana.

I've told you this a zillion times, so I'm not sure if you're doing the Peeker-purposely-misrepresent-the-poster-to-engage-debate thing or you just dense, but I want to make it clear that I am not interested in pursuing any "Jason Campbell is good enough" conversations on a go forward basis because he just fuckin' ain't. IMHO, of course.



And yet for some reason that is the piece on ground upon which you plant your flag for battle. You miss the part of the equation where the real question that matters is whether he is "good enough for what and for how long" and how does this relate to your hell bent intent on reaching for a QB in the draft.

Really, you've corrupted the thread with sloth and hyperbole for yucks.


"Planting my flag for battle"... lord...

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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:05 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
Didn't the same Josh McCown piss down his leg as a rookie in the Beefalo game with us , because it was too cold , reclaim the thrown to a Gannon comeback last night at 34 years old posting a plus 125 rating running an offense that didn't punt in minus 10 below wind chills last night.



Here's SD right on time to champion an also-ran career backup QB after beating the Cowboys in December.


:bunny:



SD:

Not at all, just the parallel of our guy same age in a renaissance opportunity, ala Rich Gannon at 34

Jason is 32 produced just 5 yards short of 400 yards vs a Mumbles defense designed to take Gordon and Cameron out of the picture, with no picks or turnovers, and what should have been a game winning drive at the end , with essentially no second wide out or decent running game .

Shove a ute in the oven behind him and Hoyer and fix everything else and kick ass , while the kid bakes.

I'm just proposing we grab the best ingredient we can nab for that cake mix , and not Expect Red. Velvet. Cake from plain general Mills flour,


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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:08 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, why are we talking about Jason Campbell? If the Browns don't draft a QB, run with Campbell, and magically improve, it will only make it that much harder to get a QB that can win a Super Bowl in subsequent years.


This kind of logic seems easy to achieve, but apparently there are some that appear hellbent on digging to China with a spoon.



When you can't win on the issue, one resorts to this.


There is no win, dumbass. There ain't no score. These are what scholars call "opinions". I think you stoopid, you think I'm wrong.

Can we end the useless debate where - yes - NOBODY wins?


No. Not really.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, jeffry Lebowski, but not his own facts.

If one wants to fabricate bullshit and cling to it in peace, then don't keep posting it on a public discussion forum where the whole purpose for its existence is to discuss and debate.

It's like putting pie out in your dorm room and crying cause it got eaten.


Yeah, right, facts have been the basis of your steaming pile.

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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:11 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:If Jason Campbell is Taeshaun Gipson I wonder who Josh McCown is? Johnson Baddimosi?

I'd hate to be on either side of your take Hiko.

Either these guys are dismissible ass clowns if they aren't HOF or borderline HOF or teams are making ass clowns look like very good QBs .

Either take in untennable in 2013.

Post another gif. :clap:


Not good enough to be a long term answer. If you want to take a run at a trophy with him this year, fine, but McCown is not an answer that I would want my team to present to me for the entire 2014 season.

I don't give a fuck about HOF, I want long term answer, not band aid journeymen that play good enough one week and then like hot garbage the next week. It's like the Cincy and PIT games never happened bc he played pretty well against the Pats. There is a universe of QB's in between Peyton Manning and Jason Campbell - you can easily improve the fucking position without having to search for the next Joe Montana.

I've told you this a zillion times, so I'm not sure if you're doing the Peeker-purposely-misrepresent-the-poster-to-engage-debate thing or you just dense, but I want to make it clear that I am not interested in pursuing any "Jason Campbell is good enough" conversations on a go forward basis because he just fuckin' ain't. IMHO, of course.



And yet for some reason that is the piece on ground upon which you plant your flag for battle. You miss the part of the equation where the real question that matters is whether he is "good enough for what and for how long" and how does this relate to your hell bent intent on reaching for a QB in the draft.

Really, you've corrupted the thread with sloth and hyperbole for yucks.


"Planting my flag for battle"... lord...

Image

One for the road...



Way to add to the body of knowledge "scholar".

:nanner:
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