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The 2014 Offseason Thread

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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:00 pm

But all post season I had to listen to locals here tell me what an anchor around the neck of the Tigers that Fielder was! "Enjoy that $25million/year while he gets older and fatter, Detroit!!!"

How 'bout now?

This is why I get a kick out of people telling me the Indians can't sign big dollar players. There's almost always a market to recoup the dollars if the team wants to go another direction or a player no longer fits.

I was told by many 'experts' via twitter, etc that Fielder was untradeable. Yet here we are...
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby 7foot3 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:27 pm

peeker643 wrote:But all post season I had to listen to locals here tell me what an anchor around the neck of the Tigers that Fielder was! "Enjoy that $25million/year while he gets older and fatter, Detroit!!!"

How 'bout now?

This is why I get a kick out of people telling me the Indians can't sign big dollar players. There's almost always a market to recoup the dollars if the team wants to go another direction or a player no longer fits.

I was told by many 'experts' via twitter, etc that Fielder was untradeable. Yet here we are...


They had to pay someone $30M to take him off their hands, and didn't exactly get a great contract back. The market for both Kinsler and Fielder was crap. Being able to move your crap for somebody else's crap doesn't really mean your crap is worth much.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:59 pm

7foot3 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:But all post season I had to listen to locals here tell me what an anchor around the neck of the Tigers that Fielder was! "Enjoy that $25million/year while he gets older and fatter, Detroit!!!"

How 'bout now?

This is why I get a kick out of people telling me the Indians can't sign big dollar players. There's almost always a market to recoup the dollars if the team wants to go another direction or a player no longer fits.

I was told by many 'experts' via twitter, etc that Fielder was untradeable. Yet here we are...


They had to pay someone $30M to take him off their hands, and didn't exactly get a great contract back. The market for both Kinsler and Fielder was crap. Being able to move your crap for somebody else's crap doesn't really mean your crap is worth much.


Kinsler:
2014- $16m
2015- $16m
2016- $14m
2017- $11m
2018- $5m buyout (or $10m)
$30m to Texas at $6m/yr starting in 2016
***********
$92million

Fielder
2014-2020 $24m/yr plus incentive bonuses for $168m
$30m from Detroit
$138m

I'll take the four years of Kinsler and the $46million in savings (not counting award bonuses: $50,000 for All-Star selection. $0.1M each for All-Star election, Baseball America or Sporting News postseason All-Star, Silver Slugger, Gold Glove, Hank Aaron Award. $0.15M for LCS MVP. $0.2M for WS MVP. $0.5M for MVP ($0.2M for 2nd-5th in vote. $0.1M for 6th-10th in vote). $1M for second or any subsequent MVP awards).

The Tigers did pretty well with their crap.

Especially when you consider in two of the last 3 seasons Kinsler's WAR was at least 150% higher than Fielder's.

And by the time the $6m payments come due the Tigers will probably be unloading Miggy and God knows who else to re-tool after Ilitch is dead and buried.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:09 pm

Damn, I need to keep up with this offseason. Anyone think we can get any mileage out of JW again?

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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:32 pm

Peeker nailed it.

The Tigers bought out of a long-term deal for a DH whose production will likely decline into his mid-30s unless he's a rare exception like David Ortiz. They got a more athletic player and will have vastly improved infield defense with Castellanos, Iglesias, Kinsler, and Miggy.

The overall value gap between Kinsler and Fielder shouldn't be too large, though Fielder will rake in Arlington. Kinsler fills a need the Tigers had and have had for a while. Also adds a dynamic of speed.

The trade cannot truly be judged until we see how Detroit allocates their saved resources and see what Texas builds around Fielder. That being said, it looks, as of now, like a serious win for the Tigers.

We'll see if the Indians try to get out of the Bourn deal. I think that's becoming a serious possibility. I'm not sure I'd agree with the process of signing him, taking one year, and bailing, but it'd all be contingent on the return and what they'd do with the money saved.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:34 pm

British_Pharaoh wrote:Damn, I need to keep up with this offseason. Anyone think we can get any mileage out of JW again?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/a ... m=facebook


He didn't have much to offer the admittedly pitchng rich Cardinals the last year or so but it wouldn't surprise me to see him get a look here this spring.

He's well thought of here by plenty in the front office.

But his WHIP was higher than any other year where he was strictly a starter and dud walked more than he struck out in 116 innings. I know he's not a power guy but 50BB and 44Ks is worrisome for anyone let alone a 36 yr old.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:43 pm

Wouldn't be shocked to see the Indians mentioned in Dan Haren talks again. They were interested before he went to Washington. Could be this year's reclamation project.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby 7foot3 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:10 pm

peeker643 wrote:Kinsler:
2014- $16m
2015- $16m
2016- $14m
2017- $11m
2018- $5m buyout (or $10m)
$30m to Texas at $6m/yr starting in 2016
***********
$92million

Fielder
2014-2020 $24m/yr plus incentive bonuses for $168m
$30m from Detroit
$138m

I'll take the four years of Kinsler and the $46million in savings (not counting award bonuses: $50,000 for All-Star selection. $0.1M each for All-Star election, Baseball America or Sporting News postseason All-Star, Silver Slugger, Gold Glove, Hank Aaron Award. $0.15M for LCS MVP. $0.2M for WS MVP. $0.5M for MVP ($0.2M for 2nd-5th in vote. $0.1M for 6th-10th in vote). $1M for second or any subsequent MVP awards).

The Tigers did pretty well with their crap.

Especially when you consider in two of the last 3 seasons Kinsler's WAR was at least 150% higher than Fielder's.

And by the time the $6m payments come due the Tigers will probably be unloading Miggy and God knows who else to re-tool after Ilitch is dead and buried.



I'm with you on taking Kinsler and his contract, even after the $30M, than Fielder. But as Law said about the trade: "with multiple sources indicating to me that the Rangers had shopped Kinsler but found no takers". The Tigers had to kick in $30M and take on a contract that no one else wanted to get rid of Fielder. That's not doing pretty good, you're out a lot of money and still have a crap contract.

And with regard to your point about the Indians making big money moves, if they best they can get out of it is paying $92M for an aging Kinsler, then, yeah, they really can't afford to compete for the big $ FAs.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby 7foot3 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:10 pm

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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:32 pm

7foot3 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Kinsler:
2014- $16m
2015- $16m
2016- $14m
2017- $11m
2018- $5m buyout (or $10m)
$30m to Texas at $6m/yr starting in 2016
***********
$92million

Fielder
2014-2020 $24m/yr plus incentive bonuses for $168m
$30m from Detroit
$138m

I'll take the four years of Kinsler and the $46million in savings (not counting award bonuses: $50,000 for All-Star selection. $0.1M each for All-Star election, Baseball America or Sporting News postseason All-Star, Silver Slugger, Gold Glove, Hank Aaron Award. $0.15M for LCS MVP. $0.2M for WS MVP. $0.5M for MVP ($0.2M for 2nd-5th in vote. $0.1M for 6th-10th in vote). $1M for second or any subsequent MVP awards).

The Tigers did pretty well with their crap.

Especially when you consider in two of the last 3 seasons Kinsler's WAR was at least 150% higher than Fielder's.

And by the time the $6m payments come due the Tigers will probably be unloading Miggy and God knows who else to re-tool after Ilitch is dead and buried.



I'm with you on taking Kinsler and his contract, even after the $30M, than Fielder. But as Law said about the trade: "with multiple sources indicating to me that the Rangers had shopped Kinsler but found no takers". The Tigers had to kick in $30M and take on a contract that no one else wanted to get rid of Fielder. That's not doing pretty good, you're out a lot of money and still have a crap contract.

And with regard to your point about the Indians making big money moves, if they best they can get out of it is paying $92M for an aging Kinsler, then, yeah, they really can't afford to compete for the big $ FAs.



That's relative IMO. I mean, the escalators in Bourn and Swisher's contract concerned a lot of people and will weigh heavily on many Tribe fans minds. But it'll be surprising to me if the Indians pay the majority of that money when all is said and done. If the Indians tank they'll find takers for those players and their money. If they don't and they end up paying all of the money in those deals it will be because those players performed to the point where they were well worth it to the club.

Like buying a new truck for $35k and then trading it in a few years down the road for something else.

It's a loss, yes. I'm not arguing that. You get trade in value. But you're not out the $35k. There's still value to the truck 3 years down the road and you've still gotten value from it while you had it.

And in many cases in MLB you can find some wealthy hump that needs a truck really badly for a bit that is willing to pay you more than yours is worth. I'd say it happens more than it doesn't, actually.

I'd also be shocked if Texas is the team that's paying Prince's $24million at the end of the deal. Someone else will see him a s a good fit for some reason down the road.

Lot of factors in play on this deal. Haven't even addressed how much better I think Kinsler makes Detroit than Fielder does and probably how much better Arlington makes Fielder there.
Ilitch is old, they're World Series or bust, Verlander showed some chinks in the armor last season, Scherzer a free agent after next season, Miggy's deal is done after 2015 season.

Meh... I get tired of the money talk here. How many guys other than Hafner have Indians ever really been bitten on regarding the full contract amount being an anchor around their necks?

I think the deal made a lot of sense for the Tigers on the field AND financially when you look at all those factor and others...
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:13 pm

peeker643 wrote:Meh... I get tired of the money talk here. How many guys other than Hafner have Indians ever really been bitten on regarding the full contract amount being an anchor around their necks?


None. Closest you could argue are Westbrook and Wood, and those were only three and two-year deals respectively. But, they've also been in a mostly consistent state of "rebuilding", where you don't even attempt to sign a contract that would handcuff you.

But, that being said, a 12M contract would have the potential to handcuff our payroll while another team can just shove it under the rug. I know you're aware of that, but what looks like a lot of money to us is exactly that in a relative sense.

The front office's margin for error is much smaller than most, so they can't even take that chance for the most part. Now they have, to an extent, and we'll see what happens.

They've gotta spend wisely, attempt to find value in platoons, and try not to get spread too thin. Big money contracts don't always provide winning players. The likelihood is higher of a Prince Fielder being worth more WAR than a David Murphy, sure. But, the Indians can't afford a high-priced gamble that flops.

I'd pay for an ace. A David Price. I wouldn't give David Wright 20M a year. I wouldn't have signed Pujols or Fielder or Hamilton. I'd gladly throw 30M per at Mike Trout, but that'll never happen.

You can dispute this point if you want, but I don't think it's ever been the salary that has turned the Indians off on a player. I think it's almost always the term. They're very analytically-dependent and aging curves have been examined time and time again by bloggers. The front office probably has even more in-depth analysis.

I'll go back to the Josh Willingham example. The Indians had the same AAV on a two-year deal that the Twins offered on a three-year deal. It looked like the Indians bitched out because of the money. But it was the guaranteed third year. After Year One, they looked like assholes. After Year Two, they've been more validated, as Willingham was a 0 WAR player in 2013. He's now worth 3.6 WAR in two seasons, so he's still being paid above market value for the first two years, but what does Year Three hold? If he's a zero WAR player again, the Twins are lucky that he was so good in Year One that it paid for all three seasons - it was his highest season by one full win. If he produces, so be it, but he's still a negative defensive player, as the Indians expected. They'd have gotten value for two years. The jury's still out on the third.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:16 pm

Jason Vargas..... yes, JASON VARGAS, gets a 4-year deal from the Royals!

Madness.

Mark it down, the Indians are not signing any starting pitching other than 1-year reclamation projects. Not that it was highly likely anyway, but the pitching market is spinning out of control.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:25 pm

Vargas has a career road ERA of 5.17, so away from Safeco or Angel Stadium, he's bad. Won't be the worst contract we'll see this offseason to a pitcher, but it'll be one of the five worst for sure.

The money's not horrible. The term is ugly.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:05 pm

David Freese traded in exchange for Peter Bourjos and, get this, the Cards are the ones sending a prospect as part of the deal.

Colour me confused, surely the Angels needed to sweeten that one up, not St Louis
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:53 pm

British_Pharaoh wrote:David Freese traded in exchange for Peter Bourjos and, get this, the Cards are the ones sending a prospect as part of the deal.

Colour me confused, surely the Angels needed to sweeten that one up, not St Louis


Nope.

Cardinals make out well here. Bourjos is one of the best defensive CF in all of baseball and the Cardinals ranked 24th in defensive runs saved among OF. He's entering his prime in his Age 26 season and I think he's got a little bit of development left with the bat. He'll be a better National League player.

The Angels also sent one of their better prospects, Randal Grichuk.

Freese is a good, not great, player with a lot of injury concerns. The Angels are betting on a bounceback season, which certainly seems possible if Freese stays healthy. At least he can DH some in the AL as well.

I like it for Anaheim. So does Dave Cameron: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/cardinal ... r-bourjos/

Can't undervalue Bourjos's speed and defense just because he's a .250 hitter with a bad K/BB ratio.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby 7foot3 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:01 pm

peeker643 wrote:That's relative IMO. I mean, the escalators in Bourn and Swisher's contract concerned a lot of people and will weigh heavily on many Tribe fans minds. But it'll be surprising to me if the Indians pay the majority of that money when all is said and done. If the Indians tank they'll find takers for those players and their money. If they don't and they end up paying all of the money in those deals it will be because those players performed to the point where they were well worth it to the club.

Like buying a new truck for $35k and then trading it in a few years down the road for something else.

It's a loss, yes. I'm not arguing that. You get trade in value. But you're not out the $35k. There's still value to the truck 3 years down the road and you've still gotten value from it while you had it.

And in many cases in MLB you can find some wealthy hump that needs a truck really badly for a bit that is willing to pay you more than yours is worth. I'd say it happens more than it doesn't, actually.

I'd also be shocked if Texas is the team that's paying Prince's $24million at the end of the deal. Someone else will see him a s a good fit for some reason down the road.

Lot of factors in play on this deal. Haven't even addressed how much better I think Kinsler makes Detroit than Fielder does and probably how much better Arlington makes Fielder there.
Ilitch is old, they're World Series or bust, Verlander showed some chinks in the armor last season, Scherzer a free agent after next season, Miggy's deal is done after 2015 season.

Meh... I get tired of the money talk here. How many guys other than Hafner have Indians ever really been bitten on regarding the full contract amount being an anchor around their necks?

I think the deal made a lot of sense for the Tigers on the field AND financially when you look at all those factor and others...



You have a lot of confidence that I don't have that there will be some hump to take your salary when it's not working for you. No one wanted Hafner, and you can bet your ass that the Indians tried everything they could to dump that deal. And while you can just sit back and enjoy a baseball game with a beer, the money matters. A lot.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:14 pm

For anybody who wants a good laugh

Jhonny Peralta's asking price has been said to be significant, but to this point, reports have only indicated that he's seeking "much more than $45MM." Joel Sherman of the New York Post sheds some light on his demands, reporting that he's seeking something in the four-year $56MM to five-year, $75MM range (Twitter link).
AND


Earlier today, it was reported that the Orioles have some interest in Peralta as a left fielder.






I kinda really hope the Orioles part is true. That would be fun to watch....ala shades of Ryan Garko
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:49 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
British_Pharaoh wrote:David Freese traded in exchange for Peter Bourjos and, get this, the Cards are the ones sending a prospect as part of the deal.

Colour me confused, surely the Angels needed to sweeten that one up, not St Louis


Nope.

Cardinals make out well here. Bourjos is one of the best defensive CF in all of baseball and the Cardinals ranked 24th in defensive runs saved among OF. He's entering his prime in his Age 26 season and I think he's got a little bit of development left with the bat. He'll be a better National League player.

The Angels also sent one of their better prospects, Randal Grichuk.

Freese is a good, not great, player with a lot of injury concerns. The Angels are betting on a bounceback season, which certainly seems possible if Freese stays healthy. At least he can DH some in the AL as well.

I like it for Anaheim. So does Dave Cameron: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/cardinal ... r-bourjos/

Can't undervalue Bourjos's speed and defense just because he's a .250 hitter with a bad K/BB ratio.


Angels sent a prospect too? Ok then, didn't realise that one thank you ken Rosenthal
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:56 pm

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:For anybody who wants a good laugh

Jhonny Peralta's asking price has been said to be significant, but to this point, reports have only indicated that he's seeking "much more than $45MM." Joel Sherman of the New York Post sheds some light on his demands, reporting that he's seeking something in the four-year $56MM to five-year, $75MM range (Twitter link).
AND


Earlier today, it was reported that the Orioles have some interest in Peralta as a left fielder.






I kinda really hope the Orioles part is true. That would be fun to watch....ala shades of Ryan Garko


@pgammo 4m
That's three GMs today that claim when they checked in Peralta he had $13MX4 in hand
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:49 pm

Joe Smith reunited with his girlfriend. 3-year deal with Anaheim.

3 years, 15M. Hefty price, but what I expected.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:59 pm

Jhonny to the Cards. 4/$52M. Who says cheating doesn't pay?

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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:45 pm

1/10 for Haren. Great signing by the Dodgers. Another risk-reward SP signing gone by the wayside.

Perfect park to lower his HR/FB rate. Had a very good second half after a stint on the DL. It helps the Dodgers that Haren wanted to be closer to home. Probably explains why the Indians weren't really in on him.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:30 am

David Murphy signing officially announced. 2 + club option.

5.5, 6, 7 w/ 500k buyout
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby ChoccoIndians » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:36 pm

WiscTribeFan wrote:Jhonny to the Cards. 4/$52M. Who says cheating doesn't pay?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/c ... ralta.html


Usually I don't knock the cards, they way they have manged their roster and let players go and got players at the right time can only applauded as a fantastic effort.

But Peralta at $13M a season over 4 years when he just had a 50 game suspension for supplements, that is a massive risk and one I think the Cards might regret.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:02 pm

It's most definitely a risk. The four years is my biggest issue with it, not necessarily the money. If he's worth 2.5 WAR, it's a pretty good value. There are signs of regression for Peralta, not only because of the PEDs, but because he posted BABIPs out of the normal range in two of the last three seasons, and the .375 this year is beyond unsustainable. Plus, yes, he's a defensive liability.

I think they're hoping to milk 2.5-3 WAR per season out of it and believe that this is a better alternative to trading for a shortstop and giving up a young arm to do it.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:14 pm

The same people that want them to give up a stud for Asdrubal slam them for signing Jhonny. Lol.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:33 pm

pup wrote:The same people that want them to give up a stud for Asdrubal slam them for signing Jhonny. Lol.


Is this referring to me?
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby 1Perry » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:34 am

pup wrote:The same people that want them to give up a stud for Asdrubal slam them for signing Jhonny. Lol.


Seems to me that the slam was about signing someone for 13 million based upon numbers that he cheated to get.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby pup » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:32 am

skatingtripods wrote:
pup wrote:The same people that want them to give up a stud for Asdrubal slam them for signing Jhonny. Lol.


Is this referring to me?


Nope.

Just a general statement.

ETA: And a commentary on my continued belief that Jhonny >>> Assdribble.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby pod2dawg » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:53 am

I always defer to the experts.

I used to be a Jhonny fan. Recognized he wasn't all that and a bag of chips at short. Accepted his shortcomings and even understood when we let him go.

He ( with a little help from the medicine cabinet) did well for the Tigers.

Did the dope, paid his dues,....got paid.

And now the best run organization ( Boston =) has decided he is worth the $$/risk.

I'll take the Cards word for it.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:42 pm

Honny is a better offensive player, chemically aided or not. Not by much but he's a solid 18-20HR and 80RBI guy with a pretty good postseason resume.

And Cabbie was fine when he was cheaper. The gap narrows considerably IMO when Cabbie demands $9m or more per year.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:26 pm

pup wrote:ETA: And a commentary on my continued belief that Jhonny >>> Assdribble.


Side-by-side offensive comparison from 2007-13: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... =4962,1738

Side-by-side defensive comparison: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... =4962,1738
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:40 pm

Those categories look like members of the Wu Tang Clan.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:29 am

Dave Cameron calculated the projected cost of a win so far in free agency for regular players (so bench guys/relievers excluded): http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/an-early ... ff-season/

His finding: 6.24M and change per win using Steamer projections.

The Indians' Murphy signing: 2.79M and change per win. The best value of any FA contract signed thus far. Only includes the two guaranteed years.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:38 pm

^^
That's where I start chuckling at stats.

;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:20 pm

Jeff Samardzija on the move?: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/c ... eason.html

If we can get Jeff Samardzija without losing Lindor, Frazier, Mejia, or Salazar, I'd be happy to see what Chicago wants.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:48 pm

Twins sign Ricky Nolasco. Head scratcher, but the contract value is very interesting. 4/49 guaranteed, 4 x 12 with 1M buyout of 2019 option.

He's averaged nearly 200 IP and 2.9 WAR in each of the last three seasons, nearly always posting a better FIP than the traditional ERA.

I think there's a chance now that Kazmir could be had for somewhere in the 2/20-24 range. There will be durability concerns with his past and Nolasco had a better season statistically than Kazmir in 2013. Where Kazmir probably has more upside, Nolasco has shown to be a workhorse with more than 185 innings in five of the last six seasons.

If the Indians go to Kazmir's agent with 2/24 right now, there's a chance he might take it. I'd be happy with that.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby bookelly » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:40 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Twins sign Ricky Nolasco. Head scratcher, but the contract value is very interesting. 4/49 guaranteed, 4 x 12 with 1M buyout of 2019 option.

He's averaged nearly 200 IP and 2.9 WAR in each of the last three seasons, nearly always posting a better FIP than the traditional ERA.

I think there's a chance now that Kazmir could be had for somewhere in the 2/20-24 range. There will be durability concerns with his past and Nolasco had a better season statistically than Kazmir in 2013. Where Kazmir probably has more upside, Nolasco has shown to be a workhorse with more than 185 innings in five of the last six seasons.

If the Indians go to Kazmir's agent with 2/24 right now, there's a chance he might take it. I'd be happy with that.


Offer 8,10,12, with that last year having a 1.5mil buyout. So 3/30 with in essence a club option + some security. Guy has a lifetime zero WAR. and last year was no different. But he holds value as a lefty which changes things up for hitters and makes our other starters that much better.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:49 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
pup wrote:ETA: And a commentary on my continued belief that Jhonny >>> Assdribble.


Side-by-side offensive comparison from 2007-13: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... =4962,1738

Side-by-side defensive comparison: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... =4962,1738


Help me help you. Do those stats support my position?
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:04 am

bookelly wrote:Offer 8,10,12, with that last year having a 1.5mil buyout. So 3/30 with in essence a club option + some security. Guy has a lifetime zero WAR. and last year was no different. But he holds value as a lefty which changes things up for hitters and makes our other starters that much better.


Kazmir was worth 2.5 WAR last season. Lifetime 18.7 WAR in 208 starts. No idea what the hell you're talking about.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:05 am

pup wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
pup wrote:ETA: And a commentary on my continued belief that Jhonny >>> Assdribble.


Side-by-side offensive comparison from 2007-13: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... =4962,1738

Side-by-side defensive comparison: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... =4962,1738


Help me help you. Do those stats support my position?


They do. Peralta > Cabrera. Peralta's actually viewed somewhat favorable by some fielding metrics. Cabrera's not viewed favorably by any of them.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:48 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
bookelly wrote:Offer 8,10,12, with that last year having a 1.5mil buyout. So 3/30 with in essence a club option + some security. Guy has a lifetime zero WAR. and last year was no different. But he holds value as a lefty which changes things up for hitters and makes our other starters that much better.


Kazmir was worth 2.5 WAR last season. Lifetime 18.7 WAR in 208 starts. No idea what the hell you're talking about.


I must be tripping. I went on Baseball Reference.com and his WAR was 0 all the way down the line. Now I check again and you are correct. I thought something was fishy. I gotta stop (smoke) so much.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:04 am

skatingtripods wrote:Twins sign Ricky Nolasco. Head scratcher, but the contract value is very interesting. 4/49 guaranteed, 4 x 12 with 1M buyout of 2019 option.

He's averaged nearly 200 IP and 2.9 WAR in each of the last three seasons, nearly always posting a better FIP than the traditional ERA.

I think there's a chance now that Kazmir could be had for somewhere in the 2/20-24 range. There will be durability concerns with his past and Nolasco had a better season statistically than Kazmir in 2013. Where Kazmir probably has more upside, Nolasco has shown to be a workhorse with more than 185 innings in five of the last six seasons.

If the Indians go to Kazmir's agent with 2/24 right now, there's a chance he might take it. I'd be happy with that.


They just signed Hughes to s 3-$24M del as well. Not sure what their strAtegy is, other than to get fans interested again...
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:40 am

Rotation is still poor but has potential. A lot rests on whether Hughes is a better pitcher than his Yankees numbers suggests, and if pitching away from Yankee Stadium is the way for him to fulfill any potential he still has.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:37 pm

WiscTribeFan wrote:They just signed Hughes to s 3-$24M del as well. Not sure what their strAtegy is, other than to get fans interested again...


I don't know what their plan is. Target Field will help with Hughes's obscene HR/FB and HR/9, so he should be a serviceable starter. Even if he is, they're so many parts away from fielding a truly competitive team that I don't understand these moves. They do have one of the game's best farm systems, including Byron Buxton, who might be the best prospect in all of baseball.

They have upgraded the rotation, which was a necessity, but they still aren't a worry in my opinion.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:06 pm

A's close to signing Kazmir apparently

Oh well
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:10 pm

Two years. No options. No word yet on the amount.

Although, if it isn't for some crazy exorbitant amount, it'll be a tough pill to swallow. Without knowing the $, I'm not liking we weren't more in the running to bring him back.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:17 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:Two years. No options. No word yet on the amount.

Although, if it isn't for some crazy exorbitant amount, it'll be a tough pill to swallow. Without knowing the $, I'm not liking we weren't more in the running to bring him back.

He said he was willing to give a small discount to stay in Cleveland too. Disappointing indeed

More than $16m according to Rosenthal
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:34 pm

2 years, $22M is what I just read on Twitter. Not confirmed.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:45 pm

I guess it comes down to how much of a discount he'd have given Cleveland. 15/16 mill...we should have been in on him. 22 mill...no way.
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