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Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:56 pm

The announcers were Rich Gannon and the guy that everyone forgot or doesn't care was a creepy old cross dressing man who hired escorts!

! = Most certain
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:00 pm

HoodooMan wrote:So the idea that a higher completion% & YPA are good, while a higher number of INTs is bad is an antiquated one?

I've yet to see an explanation of football advanced stats that compels me to pay any attention, BTW.

One place you can start that I think you'll like : air yards in relation to total passing yards and YAC.

Then situational stats.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:34 am

FUDU wrote:One place you can start that I think you'll like : air yards in relation to total passing yards and YAC.


YOU THINK WRONG, DONALD

Seriously, though, this is the kind of stuff that makes a mess of what doesn't need to be so messy.

Would I be guessing correctly as to the rationale for why I'm supposed to care about such a thing? That a QB who throws the ball 20 yards in the air and sees his receiver run for 5 more is doing more on his own than the QB who throws the ball 5 yards in the air and sees his receiver run for 20 yards more, and is thus the superior QB? Do I have that right, roughly?

So, among the things this seems to ignore and/or mis-assume:

-The importance of precise accuracy. Who has the greater margin for error--the QB who needs to place that ball perfectly and in stride for his receiver to give him a chance at 20 more yards on a 5 yard route? Or the QB who might need to thread a needle 20 yards downfield...or he might not, and he might get away just fine with throwing a ball in the general vicinity of his receiver who goes up and gets it before stumbling forward for a few extra yards? (Point: YAC is in large part QB-dependent)

-The greater reliance upon pass blocking for the 20 yard thrower. A 20 yard route needs a lot more time to develop than a 5 yard route. This is kind of obvious, no? So we're just shifting credit from that awesome WR who supposedly runs around and makes his QB look good to the OL & blitz-picker-upper RB that hold blocks long enough for their QB for him to be able to wait for his WR to get open 20 yards downfield (yeah, there's still that pesky issue of his receiver getting open for him). And this still ignores the very likely possibility that there are other receivers involved contributing to this 20yd-in-the-air completion besides the one who actually catches it, drawing coverage away from that receiver and helping him get open. (Point: kind of echoing Nas upthread, there are a lot of players involved here.)
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:23 am

It just helps to more accurately quantify some areas for comparison, I am not saying it is the end all be all of anything. But it is better than many of the archaic ways we have tracked things statistically. It's amazing what gets debunked with some adv stats applications.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:53 am

HoodooMan wrote:
Would I be guessing correctly as to the rationale for why I'm supposed to care about such a thing?


No. Probably no need to care one iota. If you watch you know.

But there are those watching who don't understand a given situation or will want to compare players based on outdated or incomplete information.

And if anyone is lazy enough to make an argument with Passer Rating as opposed to QBR then they open up that can of worms.

Probably didn't need any of it to understand who's at the top of the league and who's at the bottom or that Campbell had a shitty game Sunday and Weeden blows goat balls.

But how shitty a day did Campbell have Sunday? Depends on whether you're counting 3 yard completions while down 21 points as a good thing or a bad thing.

I know how I was counting it.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby pod2dawg » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:45 am

I'm rolling with "bad thing".
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:59 am

peeker643 wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
Would I be guessing correctly as to the rationale for why I'm supposed to care about such a thing?


No. Probably no need to care one iota. If you watch you know.

But there are those watching who don't understand a given situation or will want to compare players based on outdated or incomplete information.

And if anyone is lazy enough to make an argument with Passer Rating as opposed to QBR then they open up that can of worms.

Probably didn't need any of it to understand who's at the top of the league and who's at the bottom or that Campbell had a shitty game Sunday and Weeden blows goat balls.

But how shitty a day did Campbell have Sunday? Depends on whether you're counting 3 yard completions while down 21 points as a good thing or a bad thing.

I know how I was counting it.


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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:25 am

peeker643 wrote:And if anyone is lazy enough to make an argument with Passer Rating as opposed to QBR then they open up that can of worms.


Well, now I feel both lazy and embarrassed. Because when I compare what I saw on the field on Sunday with Campbell's stellar 44.3 rating, you're right, something just doesn't add up.

And I can see how sophisticated you are with numbers, so I know I'm just telling you what you already know, but a 3 yard completion in that archaic passer rating formula is good for a whopping 79.2 rating! Conceivably, if that's literally all you did, you could be the 25th ranked passer in the league right now! 25th!

Now, that right there is the kind of thing that makes me want to pitch the whole thing in the trash and jump in bed with a stat that's muddled up with subjectivity because ESPN told me to. :thumb up:
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:38 am

HoodooMan wrote:
peeker643 wrote:And if anyone is lazy enough to make an argument with Passer Rating as opposed to QBR then they open up that can of worms.


Well, now I feel both lazy and embarrassed. Because when I compare what I saw on the field on Sunday with Campbell's stellar 44.3 rating, you're right, something just doesn't add up.

And I can see how sophisticated you are with numbers, so I know I'm just telling you what you already know, but a 3 yard completion in that archaic passer rating formula is good for a whopping 79.2 rating! Conceivably, if that's literally all you did, you could be the 25th ranked passer in the league right now! 25th!

Now, that right there is the kind of thing that makes me want to pitch the whole thing in the trash and jump in bed with a stat that's muddled up with subjectivity because ESPN told me to. :thumb up:


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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:28 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
peeker643 wrote:And if anyone is lazy enough to make an argument with Passer Rating as opposed to QBR then they open up that can of worms.


Well, now I feel both lazy and embarrassed. Because when I compare what I saw on the field on Sunday with Campbell's stellar 44.3 rating, you're right, something just doesn't add up.

And I can see how sophisticated you are with numbers, so I know I'm just telling you what you already know, but a 3 yard completion in that archaic passer rating formula is good for a whopping 79.2 rating! Conceivably, if that's literally all you did, you could be the 25th ranked passer in the league right now! 25th!

Now, that right there is the kind of thing that makes me want to pitch the whole thing in the trash and jump in bed with a stat that's muddled up with subjectivity because ESPN told me to. :thumb up:


Let me know when you provide the subjective portion of the formula that you disagree with utilizing as compared to the old rating system.

And let me know if ESPN publishes the old formula as well. Given that if they do it's apparently not worthy of discussion. ESPN didn't 'develop' either formula.

And if this is too subjective for you then, by all means, stick with what formula best proves that Hoyer/Campbell + RB = Chiefs. Because God knows that ain't subjective ;-) ;) :wink:

• From your own 20-yard line, an 8-yard gain on third-and-10 is worth about minus-0.2 EPA because you don't get a first down; the same 8 yards on third-and-7 is worth 1.4 EPA for converting a long third down and keeping the drive alive. EPA knows that not all yards are created equal.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:26 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
Would I be guessing correctly as to the rationale for why I'm supposed to care about such a thing?


No. Probably no need to care one iota. If you watch you know.

But there are those watching who don't understand a given situation or will want to compare players based on outdated or incomplete information.

And if anyone is lazy enough to make an argument with Passer Rating as opposed to QBR then they open up that can of worms.

Probably didn't need any of it to understand who's at the top of the league and who's at the bottom or that Campbell had a shitty game Sunday and Weeden blows goat balls.

But how shitty a day did Campbell have Sunday? Depends on whether you're counting 3 yard completions while down 21 points as a good thing or a bad thing.

I know how I was counting it.


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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:44 pm

peeker643 wrote:Let me know when you provide the subjective portion of the formula that you disagree with utilizing as compared to the old rating system.

And let me know if ESPN publishes the old formula as well. Given that if they do it's apparently not worthy of discussion. ESPN didn't 'develop' either formula.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6909058/nfl-total-qbr-faq

The part of QBR that could be cynically called "subjective" is that there are judgment calls with regard to what are dropped passes vs overthrows or underthrows or defended passes.

I guess that makes me a cynic.

Because yeah, I look askance at their QBR rankings when I see Andrew Luck ranked 6th in the NFL, for example. The same guy who ranks 19th in YPA and 22nd in Completion %. But ESPN's black box--that they swear isn't a black box--spits out 6th. Could the Network O' Hype possibly be judging the quality of passes thrown from this divine arm more favorably than others??!?!

And you know that the formula for QB rating is in fact available, right? And, in addition, there are QB rating calculators available that allow you to play around with the numbers and actually get an intuitive sense of what's being abstracted. This is kind of nice if you're actually interested in them and don't merely want to passively digest whatever ESPN's feeding you. (And since when did ESPN not develop QBR?)
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:39 pm

Another bit of fun from that ESPN FAQ:

Q. What is the point of a new quarterback rating?
A. First of all, the NFL Passer Rating needed an update. It was meant to rate quarterbacks only as passers, not rushers or scramblers.


So one would have to assume then that QBs like Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, RG3, Alex Smith, and Terrell Pryor should see their rankings improve, right? All of those QBs--5 of the top 6 in rushing in the NFL--are ranked lower in QBR than they are in QB Rating.

In general, though, for all the complexity of QBR and supposed irrelevance of QB rating, their rankings are often strikingly similar.

8 of the 33 QBs with enough attempts to qualify for QB rating are ranked within 1 slot in QBR. 18 of the 33 within 3 slots. 26 of the 33 within 5 slots. In fact, there are only three players whose ranking improves by more than 5 slots going from QB rating to QBR. There's a +9 and two +10s.

One of those +10s is Christian Ponder.

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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:19 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Let me know when you provide the subjective portion of the formula that you disagree with utilizing as compared to the old rating system.

And let me know if ESPN publishes the old formula as well. Given that if they do it's apparently not worthy of discussion. ESPN didn't 'develop' either formula.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6909058/nfl-total-qbr-faq

The part of QBR that could be cynically called "subjective" is that there are judgment calls with regard to what are dropped passes vs overthrows or underthrows or defended passes.

I guess that makes me a cynic.

Because yeah, I look askance at their QBR rankings when I see Andrew Luck ranked 6th in the NFL, for example. The same guy who ranks 19th in YPA and 22nd in Completion %. But ESPN's black box--that they swear isn't a black box--spits out 6th. Could the Network O' Hype possibly be judging the quality of passes thrown from this divine arm more favorably than others??!?!

And you know that the formula for QB rating is in fact available, right? And, in addition, there are QB rating calculators available that allow you to play around with the numbers and actually get an intuitive sense of what's being abstracted. This is kind of nice if you're actually interested in them and don't merely want to passively digest whatever ESPN's feeding you. (And since when did ESPN not develop QBR?)

I don't believe the complete formula for the new QBR stat IS available, I thought I read that somewhere and it was a bit of a concern for a few people in the biz, b/c frankly why wouldn't it be.

I think you are kind of picking and choosing what stat is more important and when it is so, b/c if you say you have no need or interest in adv. stats then why would you keep coming back to traditional stats such as YPA and completion % in your comments that are so easily deemed irrelevant/general/relative to other factors.

bow, you don't have to like adv. stats, but I think if you start reading them on a consistent basis you'll see that they in fact can be quite helpful and rather insightful, and it doesn't mean you lose the right to claim the eye* test is still your preferred method.

* = referring to what you actually see on the field not the test of the poster formerly known as eieio.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby pod2dawg » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:23 pm

..............still rolling with "bad thing."
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:48 pm

FUDU wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Let me know when you provide the subjective portion of the formula that you disagree with utilizing as compared to the old rating system.

And let me know if ESPN publishes the old formula as well. Given that if they do it's apparently not worthy of discussion. ESPN didn't 'develop' either formula.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6909058/nfl-total-qbr-faq

The part of QBR that could be cynically called "subjective" is that there are judgment calls with regard to what are dropped passes vs overthrows or underthrows or defended passes.

I guess that makes me a cynic.

Because yeah, I look askance at their QBR rankings when I see Andrew Luck ranked 6th in the NFL, for example. The same guy who ranks 19th in YPA and 22nd in Completion %. But ESPN's black box--that they swear isn't a black box--spits out 6th. Could the Network O' Hype possibly be judging the quality of passes thrown from this divine arm more favorably than others??!?!

And you know that the formula for QB rating is in fact available, right? And, in addition, there are QB rating calculators available that allow you to play around with the numbers and actually get an intuitive sense of what's being abstracted. This is kind of nice if you're actually interested in them and don't merely want to passively digest whatever ESPN's feeding you. (And since when did ESPN not develop QBR?)

I don't believe the complete formula for the new QBR stat IS available, I thought I read that somewhere and it was a bit of a concern for a few people in the biz, b/c frankly why wouldn't it be.

I think you are kind of picking and choosing what stat is more important and when it is so, b/c if you say you have no need or interest in adv. stats then why would you keep coming back to traditional stats such as YPA and completion % in your comments that are so easily deemed irrelevant/general/relative to other factors.

bow, you don't have to like adv. stats, but I think if you start reading them on a consistent basis you'll see that they in fact can be quite helpful and rather insightful, and it doesn't mean you lose the right to claim the eye* test is still your preferred method.

* = referring to what you actually see on the field not the test of the poster formerly known as eieio.


Personally, if I am looking for advanced stats I am going to Football Outsiders, who pretty much pioneered the concept for football, as opposed to going to say, I dunno, some gratuitous self promoting bunch of assclowns who developed a highly subjective black box method in order to scream "look at us, we are smart!" and point out to the masses why we should all pay out the rectum for biased coverage of sports they deem appropriate for us to watch.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:55 pm

Agreed matt, I spend a decent amount of time reading through Football Outsiders.

I enjoy reading their breakdown of modern strategies, play calling, myths and situational stuff.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby justmebd » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:49 pm

All I know is I don't want to see last Sunday's performance again.

Throw any stat you want against the wall, it doesn't change anything.

I have a headache.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:01 am

justmebd wrote:All I know is I don't want to see last Sunday's performance again.

Throw any stat you want against the wall, it doesn't change anything.

I have a headache.


You can measure headaches on a pain scale now, ya know. Smiley Face 0 up to Cry Face 10.

But sadly that's kind of subjective. As is where your head hurts. Yeah, it might help a doctor evaluate the pain and fix it, but it's subjective. And that means, apparently, it's invalid. Doctors have been shamed into changing their SOAP notes to OAP notes. Radical changes in the medical field.

Fucking ESPN preventing headache relief.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby jb » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:16 pm

peeker643 wrote:
justmebd wrote:All I know is I don't want to see last Sunday's performance again.

Throw any stat you want against the wall, it doesn't change anything.

I have a headache.


You can measure headaches on a pain scale now, ya know. Smiley Face 0 up to Cry Face 10.

But sadly that's kind of subjective. As is where your head hurts. Yeah, it might help a doctor evaluate the pain and fix it, but it's subjective. And that means, apparently, it's invalid. Doctors have been shamed into changing their SOAP notes to OAP notes. Radical changes in the medical field.

Fucking ESPN preventing headache relief.



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Where do Weeds and JC fall?
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:26 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
justmebd wrote:All I know is I don't want to see last Sunday's performance again.

Throw any stat you want against the wall, it doesn't change anything.

I have a headache.


You can measure headaches on a pain scale now, ya know. Smiley Face 0 up to Cry Face 10.

But sadly that's kind of subjective. As is where your head hurts. Yeah, it might help a doctor evaluate the pain and fix it, but it's subjective. And that means, apparently, it's invalid. Doctors have been shamed into changing their SOAP notes to OAP notes. Radical changes in the medical field.

Fucking ESPN preventing headache relief.



Image


Where do Weeds and JC fall?



Weeden goes up to 11.

Campbell is usually a 4-6 who was an easy 8 on Sunday.

The good thing for Campbell is I've felt the Weeden pain and there's no chance anyone could ever reach that 'begging for death' level again.

Subjectively speaking, anyway. No ratings numbers to support it.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:28 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
justmebd wrote:All I know is I don't want to see last Sunday's performance again.

Throw any stat you want against the wall, it doesn't change anything.

I have a headache.


You can measure headaches on a pain scale now, ya know. Smiley Face 0 up to Cry Face 10.

But sadly that's kind of subjective. As is where your head hurts. Yeah, it might help a doctor evaluate the pain and fix it, but it's subjective. And that means, apparently, it's invalid. Doctors have been shamed into changing their SOAP notes to OAP notes. Radical changes in the medical field.

Fucking ESPN preventing headache relief.



Image


Where do Weeds and JC fall?



Weeden goes up to 11.

Campbell is usually a 4-6 who was an easy 8 on Sunday.

The good thing for Campbell is I've felt the Weeden pain and there's no chance anyone could ever reach that 'begging for death' level again.

Subjectively speaking, anyway. No ratings numbers to support it.


Emotion certainly plays into that rating system. In a "Bury Colt Up To His Neck And Laugh As The Tide Rolls In" kind of way.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:40 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
justmebd wrote:All I know is I don't want to see last Sunday's performance again.

Throw any stat you want against the wall, it doesn't change anything.

I have a headache.


You can measure headaches on a pain scale now, ya know. Smiley Face 0 up to Cry Face 10.

But sadly that's kind of subjective. As is where your head hurts. Yeah, it might help a doctor evaluate the pain and fix it, but it's subjective. And that means, apparently, it's invalid. Doctors have been shamed into changing their SOAP notes to OAP notes. Radical changes in the medical field.

Fucking ESPN preventing headache relief.



Image


Where do Weeds and JC fall?



Weeden goes up to 11.

Campbell is usually a 4-6 who was an easy 8 on Sunday.

The good thing for Campbell is I've felt the Weeden pain and there's no chance anyone could ever reach that 'begging for death' level again.

Subjectively speaking, anyway. No ratings numbers to support it.


Emotion certainly plays into that rating system. In a "Bury Colt Up To His Neck And Laugh As The Tide Rolls In" kind of way.


Image

Perhaps no greater example of 'subjective' than how emotion plays into the chart. Well done, tying that in there.

Now... what would be fun and what I'd really like to see is the Passer Rating and the QBR for Weeds vs. Colt.

Someone get those stats, stat.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:58 pm

0 x 0 = ?
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:53 pm

Hikohadon wrote:0 x 0 = ?


C'mon. You watched Faces of Death. I'd bet my life on it. And I can look at any accident photos from decaps to people looking like a deer I just gutted to legs with holes where there shouldn't be no holes.

I want to see the Weeds v. Colt Ratings and QBR.

I need to see it.

I do. I can't help it.

You do too.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:01 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:0 x 0 = ?


C'mon. You watched Faces of Death. I'd bet my life on it. And I can look at any accident photos from decaps to people looking like a deer I just gutted to legs with holes where there shouldn't be no holes.

I want to see the Weeds v. Colt Ratings and QBR.

I need to see it.

I do. I can't help it.

You do too.


You are wrong, because no matter what it says Colt is the worst ever.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:04 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:0 x 0 = ?


C'mon. You watched Faces of Death. I'd bet my life on it. And I can look at any accident photos from decaps to people looking like a deer I just gutted to legs with holes where there shouldn't be no holes.

I want to see the Weeds v. Colt Ratings and QBR.

I need to see it.

I do. I can't help it.

You do too.


You are wrong, because no matter what it says Colt is the worst ever.


You subjective, emotional coward. ESPN wins.

But we're doing this. We both lose no matter what just for taking part in it, but we're finding that fucking information. I just don't have the ability to do so here.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:23 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:0 x 0 = ?


C'mon. You watched Faces of Death. I'd bet my life on it. And I can look at any accident photos from decaps to people looking like a deer I just gutted to legs with holes where there shouldn't be no holes.

I want to see the Weeds v. Colt Ratings and QBR.

I need to see it.

I do. I can't help it.

You do too.


You are wrong, because no matter what it says Colt is the worst ever.


You subjective, emotional coward. ESPN wins.

But we're doing this. We both lose no matter what just for taking part in it, but we're finding that fucking information. I just don't have the ability to do so here.


Career Numbers

Colt McCoy
QBR 40.8
Rating 74.9

Brandon Weeden
QBR 26.2
Rating 70.8
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:29 pm

Giggling at the word "subjective" is a fine substitute for a counter argument.

Well done, Peeker.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby justmebd » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:03 pm

Is there a scale for a bad QB performances giving you "The red ass?"
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:15 pm

HoodooMan wrote:Giggling at the word "subjective" is a fine substitute for a counter argument.

Well done, Peeker.


Bwah!!! Your lack of any argument other than 'ESPN is evil' or 'Well, the disparity is small either way' is an equally fine substitute. I already told ya why I like it better. Because the argument IS subjective to a point and the stats used to formulate QBR are more encompassing than Passer Rating.

Add to that that it doesn't mean shit either way because, SUBJECTIVELY, you can tell the difference between good and bad QB play, and I really don't feel the need to argue about why you like red and I like blue.

I think QBR is a more accurate reflection because it takes more into account.

What's clear in all of this is both systems recognize that Brandon Weeden is objectively and subjectively worse than Colt McCoy.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:35 am

mattvan1 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:0 x 0 = ?


C'mon. You watched Faces of Death. I'd bet my life on it. And I can look at any accident photos from decaps to people looking like a deer I just gutted to legs with holes where there shouldn't be no holes.

I want to see the Weeds v. Colt Ratings and QBR.

I need to see it.

I do. I can't help it.

You do too.


You are wrong, because no matter what it says Colt is the worst ever.


You subjective, emotional coward. ESPN wins.

But we're doing this. We both lose no matter what just for taking part in it, but we're finding that fucking information. I just don't have the ability to do so here.


Career Numbers

Colt McCoy
QBR 40.8
Rating 74.9

Brandon Weeden
QBR 26.2
Rating 70.8


Colt's still worse.

Compare him to Paul McDonald or Spurgeon Wynn or Doug Pederson or Mike Phipps - Colt's still the worst.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:15 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:0 x 0 = ?


C'mon. You watched Faces of Death. I'd bet my life on it. And I can look at any accident photos from decaps to people looking like a deer I just gutted to legs with holes where there shouldn't be no holes.

I want to see the Weeds v. Colt Ratings and QBR.

I need to see it.

I do. I can't help it.

You do too.


You are wrong, because no matter what it says Colt is the worst ever.


You subjective, emotional coward. ESPN wins.

But we're doing this. We both lose no matter what just for taking part in it, but we're finding that fucking information. I just don't have the ability to do so here.


Career Numbers

Colt McCoy
QBR 40.8
Rating 74.9

Brandon Weeden
QBR 26.2
Rating 70.8


Colt's still worse.

Compare him to Paul McDonald or Spurgeon Wynn or Doug Pederson or Mike Phipps - Colt's still the worst.


Colt vs. Weeds (Peeker vs. Hiko) aside, it is interesting to see how much the "subjective" nature of QBR (and mobility factor) yields a rating vastly different than the traditional.

Just for shits and giggles, I may try to dig up more meaningless stats to demonstrate the depths of suckitude at QB
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:31 pm

The one thing I know is you cannot disprove pain.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby General » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:53 pm

God this thread blows. :dead:
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby jb » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:23 pm

General wrote:God this thread blows. :dead:



I'll never be your feast or famine.
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:08 pm

mattvan1 wrote:Colt vs. Weeds (Peeker vs. Hiko) aside, it is interesting to see how much the "subjective" nature of QBR (and mobility factor) yields a rating vastly different than the traditional.

Just for shits and giggles, I may try to dig up more meaningless stats to demonstrate the depths of suckitude at QB


It has nothing to do with Colt vs. Weeden. Weeden isn't even a factor. He blows. If I compared Weeden to Frye, I'd have a tough time figuring out which was worse (with my scale, of course, QBR and such are meaningless to me).

But my loathing of Colt combined with his awfulness means that there isn't a QB in existence that sucks more. Any argument to the contrary is a waste. :thumb up:
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Re: Cleveland @ Cincy - Feast or Famine?

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:47 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:Colt vs. Weeds (Peeker vs. Hiko) aside, it is interesting to see how much the "subjective" nature of QBR (and mobility factor) yields a rating vastly different than the traditional.

Just for shits and giggles, I may try to dig up more meaningless stats to demonstrate the depths of suckitude at QB


It has nothing to do with Colt vs. Weeden. Weeden isn't even a factor. He blows. If I compared Weeden to Frye, I'd have a tough time figuring out which was worse (with my scale, of course, QBR and such are meaningless to me).

But my loathing of Colt combined with his awfulness means that there isn't a QB in existence that sucks more. Any argument to the contrary is a waste. :thumb up:


Chazzy still gets my vote for worst ever (Aside from Todd Pederson, but he didn't have enough starts to qualify)

I mean Weeds signature play was the underhanded "Favre" 20 yarder. Chazzy's signature play was the "dead sprint to the sideline throwing it back late over the middle." Big difference was that Chazzy did his move about three times every start.

The humor in how these two are tied together? When anyone on GGE who watched Chazzy play who wasn't an absolute imbecile would've never touched the guy. But of course Mike Holmgren picked him up for Seattle.
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