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The 2014 Offseason Thread

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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby Commodore Perry » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:16 pm

neoleo wrote:
Larvell Blanks wrote:
Commodore Perry wrote:The thing about Ubaldo, is that Ubaldo didn't fix Ubaldo. A very patient and coddling Indians coaching staff did. And that still took 2 years.

When he takes the mound for the big market team that will gamble on him, he will fall apart again.



So where's the guarantee that he would remain "fixed" if he loyally stayed here?


Exactly. As far as I'm concerned, I don't want him to be "loyal". That 2nd half of the season sure was great, but after suffering through the rest of Ubaldo's stay in CLE, I'll take the 1st round pick and try to forget that whole trade ever happened.



Not making the argument he would remain fixed here. Not making the argument he should be loyal and stay.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby bookelly » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:37 am

I think we may be surprised by the hesitancy of some teams to go for a guy that has that QO tag on him. The way the draft is structured now with allocated slot money only a small handful of teams can afford to give up that golden egg. And those teams are typically maxed out right now anyway (Doyers, Angels, Yankees, BoSux).

If you're the Blue Jays or ChiSux or any other med-high payroll team are you really willing to give up all that draft gold for a player with a tenuous track record? I'd pass.

A team like the Tribe has a better bet of resigning him than we think. Mostly because of that draft slot money.

/Although I could see him going to a team like the Cubs that is looking to make major leaps forward and has all the money in the world.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:03 am

I think a guy like Kazmir would be a better pick for the Cubs. Shorter contract length (don't see him getting more than 2 guaranteed), plus he's a lefty. He pitches well for them in the first half, they could flip him for controllable prospects, which is their current operating philosophy.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:17 am

A middle of the road team with a protected pick could take a shot at Jimenez. A place like Seattle or San Diego. A pitcher-friendly park on a team without many big contract players that is in need of starting pitching. Hard to see a contender shelling out big cash and a pick for a question mark, but who knows.

Regarding Kazmir, Fangraphs did a crowdsourcing project for free agent salaries and Kazmir was 2/17. I don't see how the Indians couldn't match something like that. I think Kazmir comes back unless somebody gives him a guaranteed deal of 3/30 or something. The Indians want him back, I think he wants to be here because he knows there's no immediate competition to his job if he struggles, and he may have a sense of loyalty since the Indians gave him a chance. That might be optimism on my part, but the Indians stayed with him through the Opening Day injury, his early season struggles, and managed his arm in a way that would protect both his future and the team.

I think the Cubs will definitely be involved. A lot of teams will be involved on Kazmir with very similar contract offers. No idea what the deciding factor will be, but I think the Indians giving him a vesting option based on innings pitched would help.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:53 pm

Ubaldo officially walks away. Good luck to him. It was a shame to see him loose his footing and completely fall off the mountain, just to climb part of the way back up. He really worked hard to get back to this point. I hope he finds success somewhere.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:34 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Ubaldo officially walks away. Good luck to him. It was a shame to see him loose his footing and completely fall off the mountain, just to climb part of the way back up. He really worked hard to get back to this point. I hope he finds success somewhere.


I can't say I hope he finds success. I hope he finds a big contract and financial security and happiness and health, but I don't care that he ever wins 10 games in a season again.

I hope the compensation pick has a better career than Alex White or Drew Pomeranz though. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:54 pm

peeker643 wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Ubaldo officially walks away. Good luck to him. It was a shame to see him loose his footing and completely fall off the mountain, just to climb part of the way back up. He really worked hard to get back to this point. I hope he finds success somewhere.


I can't say I hope he finds success. I hope he finds a big contract and financial security and happiness and health, but I don't care that he ever wins 10 games in a season again.

I hope the compensation pick has a better career than Alex White or Drew Pomeranz though. ;-) ;) :wink:


I hold no animosity towards him. I felt bad for him watching him get booed off the mound and seeing that look in his eyes in interviews. He was totally lost.

I hope he finds success. Preferably in the National League, but I hope he lives up to his new contract.

Would be great if the compensation pick becomes something.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby bookelly » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:49 am

skatingtripods wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Ubaldo officially walks away. Good luck to him. It was a shame to see him loose his footing and completely fall off the mountain, just to climb part of the way back up. He really worked hard to get back to this point. I hope he finds success somewhere.


I can't say I hope he finds success. I hope he finds a big contract and financial security and happiness and health, but I don't care that he ever wins 10 games in a season again.

I hope the compensation pick has a better career than Alex White or Drew Pomeranz though. ;-) ;) :wink:


I hold no animosity towards him. I felt bad for him watching him get booed off the mound and seeing that look in his eyes in interviews. He was totally lost.

I hope he finds success. Preferably in the National League, but I hope he lives up to his new contract.

Would be great if the compensation pick becomes something.


Considering our 1st round draft slot in the bottom half, that compensation pick money can be used to draft an "expensive" guy a la Wacha who falls due to teams afraid to sign him. At least that's how I'd use it.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:46 pm

@KeithBritton86 11m
So #Indians manager told @BullandFox Yan Gomes will be the everyday catcher next season moving Santana likely to 1B/DH
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby bookelly » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:28 am

I assume he'd be more DH/1B/C right? We're obviously not gonna burn Giambi's bench spot on a 3rd catcher.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:33 am

bookelly wrote:I assume he'd be more DH/1B/C right? We're obviously not gonna burn Giambi's bench spot on a 3rd catcher.


I would expect that if Gomes stays healthy, Santana catches maybe 25-30 games.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby RedDawg53 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:14 pm

skatingtripods wrote:@KeithBritton86 11m
So #Indians manager told @BullandFox Yan Gomes will be the everyday catcher next season moving Santana likely to 1B/DH


I don't want to see Santana use his glove. Just how I feel. I love his bat... just not his fielding. I would rather have grandpa-Giambi over Santana at 1B any day
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby bac5665 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:26 pm

This move is a defeat. This is yet another example of Cleveland failing to develop talent. Santana is not a top tier first baseman. And this tells me that we aren't going to pick up a top tier first baseman.

Yay.

This team needs legitimate threats and I don't know where we're going to get them.

And don't take this to mean that I don't like the move. I like the move given that it probably is the best thing for the club right now. But it signals that we yet again failed to develop elite talent. We couldn't get Santana to be a catcher so now he gets to be an average 1B.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:53 pm

Santana's bat still plays above average at first base.

Santana's move out of the starting catcher role doesn't come without a lot of effort on the Indians' part. They brought in Sandy Alomar Jr. to help Santana with the fundamentals of the position. It's not his natural position. Furthermore, the Indians aren't responsible for Santana's laziness. Only one person can change that and he doesn't seem to want to.

No, he's not a good first baseman either. But he should hurt us less defensively over there than behind the plate.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:17 pm

Is there an under-the-radar bat we can go get for 7 mill or so? We could really use another professional hitter in the order.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:20 pm

Kingpin74 wrote:Is there an under-the-radar bat we can go get for 7 mill or so? We could really use another professional hitter in the order.


Mark Reynolds is available.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby 1Perry » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:21 pm

It's the best move considering the situations. Yes, the Indians failure's to develop talent is indeed a problem, but that being with the other holes to fill and contracts to extend it's the right move.

Gomes is clearly better behind the plate than Santana. Santana is clearly a better DH than the alternatives and Francona clearly knows how to get the best out of a line-up in daily match ups.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby bac5665 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:33 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Santana's bat still plays above average at first base.

Santana's move out of the starting catcher role doesn't come without a lot of effort on the Indians' part. They brought in Sandy Alomar Jr. to help Santana with the fundamentals of the position. It's not his natural position. Furthermore, the Indians aren't responsible for Santana's laziness. Only one person can change that and he doesn't seem to want to.

No, he's not a good first baseman either. But he should hurt us less defensively over there than behind the plate.


Nothing to argue with there. It's just so frustrating to look back at the offensive prospects of the last several years and realize that not one has lived up to potential. That thought makes me doubt that we can sustain real success, which is even more frustrating.

:gah:
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby googleeph2 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:55 pm

YMMV, but they do develop/ straighten out pitching pretty well. And Francona was a grand slam.
I'm all about optimism in off-season and during spring, but I think a lot of it is well founded.

The rotation needs work, but I like masterson and salazar heading it up. Call me crazy, but I remain very high on Carrasco.

Don't know if Chisenhall will ever hit lefties, but scouts are still very high on his swing. Kipnis is still pre-prime. The young position prospects are a year older.

Don't know if they'll win 90 games next year, but any step back won't be an extended drop to the bottom of the division. The future is bright.

Now, if baseball would only adopt my idea of drawing up divisions every year, based on roster payroll...
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:30 pm

bac5665 wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Santana's bat still plays above average at first base.

Santana's move out of the starting catcher role doesn't come without a lot of effort on the Indians' part. They brought in Sandy Alomar Jr. to help Santana with the fundamentals of the position. It's not his natural position. Furthermore, the Indians aren't responsible for Santana's laziness. Only one person can change that and he doesn't seem to want to.

No, he's not a good first baseman either. But he should hurt us less defensively over there than behind the plate.


Nothing to argue with there. It's just so frustrating to look back at the offensive prospects of the last several years and realize that not one has lived up to potential. That thought makes me doubt that we can sustain real success, which is even more frustrating.

:gah:


I think Santana has lived up to his offensive potential. He's averaged 22 HR over the last three years and he has a career .367 OBP, despite a batting average in the .250s. Sometimes you'd like to see him a little bit more aggressive, but you really don't want him to change his approach too much.

He'll never really hit for a high average because he works so deep in counts, so he has to protect with two strikes. 409 of his plate appearances in 2013 ended with either three balls or two strikes (subtracted full counts). That's 64% of his plate appearances. So in those situations, he's usually looking to walk or having to protect.

It feels like he should have the potential to do more, but he's a very valuable offensive player already.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:46 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
bac5665 wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Santana's bat still plays above average at first base.

Santana's move out of the starting catcher role doesn't come without a lot of effort on the Indians' part. They brought in Sandy Alomar Jr. to help Santana with the fundamentals of the position. It's not his natural position. Furthermore, the Indians aren't responsible for Santana's laziness. Only one person can change that and he doesn't seem to want to.

No, he's not a good first baseman either. But he should hurt us less defensively over there than behind the plate.


Nothing to argue with there. It's just so frustrating to look back at the offensive prospects of the last several years and realize that not one has lived up to potential. That thought makes me doubt that we can sustain real success, which is even more frustrating.

:gah:


I think Santana has lived up to his offensive potential. He's averaged 22 HR over the last three years and he has a career .367 OBP, despite a batting average in the .250s. Sometimes you'd like to see him a little bit more aggressive, but you really don't want him to change his approach too much.

He'll never really hit for a high average because he works so deep in counts, so he has to protect with two strikes. 409 of his plate appearances in 2013 ended with either three balls or two strikes (subtracted full counts). That's 64% of his plate appearances. So in those situations, he's usually looking to walk or having to protect.

It feels like he should have the potential to do more, but he's a very valuable offensive player already.


Santana is fine from an overall offensive player standpoint. I agree with you there. It's not his fault he's miscast as a middle of the order hitter on a team that needs him to live there (much in the way everyone 3-5 in the Indians lineup is miscast as a 3-5 hitter).

But, BUT, I think your definition of "protect" is different than mine. Hitting with 2 strikes or deep in counts isn't protecting. That would require a shorter swing and a willingness to put the ball in play a lot more. He strikes out 35% of the time the count gets to two strikes over the course of his career and 33% last year. A guy like Pedroia (who was over 40% career wise) was at 20% last season. That, to me, is a conscious effort being made to 'protect' and shorten up, make contact, go the other way,whatever.

I don't "see" Santana's approach change with 2-strikes.

And it's something that he could consciously do if he wanted to do it and work at it. Which brings us back to the 'work' thing.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:02 pm

peeker643 wrote:Santana is fine from an overall offensive player standpoint. I agree with you there. It's not his fault he's miscast as a middle of the order hitter on a team that needs him to live there (much in the way everyone 3-5 in the Indians lineup is miscast as a 3-5 hitter).


Realistically, and I know Francona wouldn't do this, Santana should bat second because of the high OBP. I get the bat control, move runners along argument, but optimally, he'd bat first or second. Since I know he won't bat first, second is the best place for him.

But, BUT, I think your definition of "protect" is different than mine. Hitting with 2 strikes or deep in counts isn't protecting. That would require a shorter swing and a willingness to put the ball in play a lot more. He strikes out 35% of the time the count gets to two strikes over the course of his career and 33% last year. A guy like Pedroia (who was over 40% career wise) was at 20% last season. That, to me, is a conscious effort being made to 'protect' and shorten up, make contact, go the other way,whatever.

I don't "see" Santana's approach change with 2-strikes.

And it's something that he could consciously do if he wanted to do it and work at it. Which brings us back to the 'work' thing.


I get what you're saying. Santana's approach is entirely about selectivity. With two strikes, that approach is taken away and he's not a good enough contact hitter to compensate. I think we're in agreement, but I didn't elaborate on my opinion.

He doesn't adjust with two strikes, you're right. He doesn't use the whole field enough. That's why I said he'd never be a high-average hitter.

Among qualified hitters, Santana had the 11th-highest number of plate appearances that ended in a pulled ball in play last season (221), but the 44th-highest batting average.

Out of 287 players with at least 50 plate appearances ending in hitting the ball to the opposite field, Santana ranked tied for 221th (63 PA).

(Random fact, Jason Kipnis had the highest batting average to the opposite field of any hitter last season.)
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby bookelly » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:22 pm

There was that beautiful stretch just before the All-Star break where he was peppering the opposite field wall with line drives. He even did it during the AS game. I think he hit well over .400 during that stretch. I hope he finds it again next season and holds it.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby 7foot3 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:17 pm

peeker643 wrote:It's not his fault he's miscast as a middle of the order hitter on a team that needs him to live there (much in the way everyone 3-5 in the Indians lineup is miscast as a 3-5 hitter).



The average MLB team had a .799 OPS from the #3 spot, .788 from the #4 spot, and .741 from the #5 spot, even before we adjust for the fact that Progressive has become a pitcher's park, Santana easily topped all these with a .832 OPS. His 137 OPS+ ranked 10th best in the AL. Dude is a middle of the order hitter.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby pup » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:15 pm

LOL at Progressive Field "becoming" a pitchers park. Don't remember them changing the dimensions and adjusting the wind patterns.

The Cleveland Indians front office turned it into a pitchers park.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby pod2dawg » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:20 am

= Carlos needs to try to quit hitting the ball into Lake Erie on every swing.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby 7foot3 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:24 pm

pup wrote:LOL at Progressive Field "becoming" a pitchers park. Don't remember them changing the dimensions and adjusting the wind patterns.

The Cleveland Indians front office turned it into a pitchers park.



http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams ... tend.shtml

Check the last two columns.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:49 pm

7foot3 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:It's not his fault he's miscast as a middle of the order hitter on a team that needs him to live there (much in the way everyone 3-5 in the Indians lineup is miscast as a 3-5 hitter).



The average MLB team had a .799 OPS from the #3 spot, .788 from the #4 spot, and .741 from the #5 spot, even before we adjust for the fact that Progressive has become a pitcher's park, Santana easily topped all these with a .832 OPS. His 137 OPS+ ranked 10th best in the AL. Dude is a middle of the order hitter.


Yeah, he's probably the one guy on the roster with middle of the order creds, I'll say that. Miscast is the wrong word. Let's just say my perception is he doesn't have a high baseball IQ which to me translates into him doing less with more talent than maybe he should.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby pup » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:40 am

7foot3 wrote:
pup wrote:LOL at Progressive Field "becoming" a pitchers park. Don't remember them changing the dimensions and adjusting the wind patterns.

The Cleveland Indians front office turned it into a pitchers park.



http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams ... tend.shtml

Check the last two columns.


I am not saying the stat doesn't say it is a pitchers park. I am saying what in the world makes a park factor change? Why does a stadium become harder to score runs in over time? It doesn't.

But when you go from a lineup with Manny Ramirez hitting 8th to Jason Kipnis hitting 3rd...
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby 7foot3 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:23 am

pup wrote:I am saying what in the world makes a park factor change?


Then maybe you should look it up before you hit post next time.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:20 pm

Indians reportedly taking a gamble on David Murphy, formerly with the Rangers. Expected to be a 2-year deal in the $10M range. Coming off very bad year, but career .816 OPS against LHP. Home/road splits are about what you'd expect with Arlington.

Re-thinking my initial opinion of the move. Figure Murphy and Raburn platoon in RF. Santana, Giambi, Raburn all in mix for DH at bats.

Between Murphy and Raburn, you could put out a 3-3.5 win RF without either guy having to have a ridiculous season. Play to their strengths. Serviceable defensively (Murphy's an above avg LF, slightly above avg RF).

I like this. BABIP was terribly low last season. Around league average bat on road with 100 wRC+. Should be better.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby bookelly » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:30 am

skatingtripods wrote:Indians reportedly taking a gamble on David Murphy, formerly with the Rangers. Expected to be a 2-year deal in the $10M range. Coming off very bad year, but career .816 OPS against LHP. Home/road splits are about what you'd expect with Arlington.

Re-thinking my initial opinion of the move. Figure Murphy and Raburn platoon in RF. Santana, Giambi, Raburn all in mix for DH at bats.

Between Murphy and Raburn, you could put out a 3-3.5 win RF without either guy having to have a ridiculous season. Play to their strengths. Serviceable defensively (Murphy's an above avg LF, slightly above avg RF).

I like this. BABIP was terribly low last season. Around league average bat on road with 100 wRC+. Should be better.


Done deal. Does this mean Stubbs is gone? Or does he still have options?
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:05 am

bookelly wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Indians reportedly taking a gamble on David Murphy, formerly with the Rangers. Expected to be a 2-year deal in the $10M range. Coming off very bad year, but career .816 OPS against LHP. Home/road splits are about what you'd expect with Arlington.

Re-thinking my initial opinion of the move. Figure Murphy and Raburn platoon in RF. Santana, Giambi, Raburn all in mix for DH at bats.

Between Murphy and Raburn, you could put out a 3-3.5 win RF without either guy having to have a ridiculous season. Play to their strengths. Serviceable defensively (Murphy's an above avg LF, slightly above avg RF).

I like this. BABIP was terribly low last season. Around league average bat on road with 100 wRC+. Should be better.


Done deal. Does this mean Stubbs is gone? Or does he still have options?


I think Stubbs still has options (in fact, looking at his career without detailed transaction history leads me to believe he might have all 3 option years remaining). But, he's due another arbitration raise so, yeah you'd assume his time has come to an end - either by trade or non-tender.

I guess, if you really put your conspiracy theorist hat on, you could speculate that signing Murphy could be a sign they're looking to trade Bourn to free payroll to acquire some pitching. That way, you could keep Stubbs and platoon him and Murphy and/or Brantley in CF, I guess.

Highly unlikely, but I guess it's possible.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:11 am

Yeah, I like it, too. It's not a huge impact move like what they did last offseason (hopefully, that's still coming), but Murphy is a nice bounce back candidate, and if you hide his LHP deficiencies by platooning him with Raburn, he could potentially put up some decent numbers. I'm not getting any Dellucci/Michaels vibes from this potential pairing, that's for sure.

My only concern about this signing is that it all but signals we won't be in the mix for one of the few big bats on the free agent market like Beltran or (maybe more realistically) Hart. The 1B/RF/DH mix was probably our best bet to improve the offense, but there are too many players (Swisher, Santana, Raburn, Murphy) for them to bring in a full-time middle-of-the-order hitter now unless someone goes.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:52 am

Adverb Harry wrote:My only concern about this signing is that it all but signals we won't be in the mix for one of the few big bats on the free agent market like Beltran or (maybe more realistically) Hart. The 1B/RF/DH mix was probably our best bet to improve the offense, but there are too many players (Swisher, Santana, Raburn, Murphy) for them to bring in a full-time middle-of-the-order hitter now unless someone goes.


Antonetti said he was looking for a left handed complementary bat. This would be it. I don't think this impacts their other potential moves. Given the money that they gave Murphy, it seems that a Stubbs non-tender/trade or a Bourn trade are serious possibilities.

We did kick the tires on Beltran, at least I think I remember seeing us mentioned. But Beltran has no reason to come here.

I think they're still searching for a complement to Chisenhall because they believe there's hope left for him. My Chisenhall opinions are pretty well-documented, but it's hard to find a 3B at a reasonable price that can both hit and field.

One guy who seems to be pretty on the ball, Steve Kinsella, a writer for WahoosOnFirst, thinks that the Indians will take a hard look at Phil Hughes to compete for the vacant rotation spot now that Josh Johnson and Tim Hudson are both off the market. FWIW, I'd have LOVED Johnson at 1 year, 8M.

Edit: Numbers on Murphy are 2/12, with an option for a 3rd year.

Between Murphy and Raburn (2.25M), if you can get a 3-3.5 win RF for 8.25M, that's really good market value. I recently saw an article by Lewis Pollis (former Indians front office intern, SABR Award winner) about wins costing 7M in FA, not the traditional 5-5.5M originally thought. He took some backlash for the article and his methodology, but even if both sides are off, and wins are 6-6.5M, the Indians could have quite a RF bargain, as much as we all hate the notion of platoons.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:26 am

You'd think with Raburn, Murphy, Bourn, Swisher, Brantley and Stubbs, someone is going to have to go, even with playing them at DH and Swisher at 1B. That's quite a log-jam of players.

I see Stubbs getting dealt, if only for the fact that Bourn is probably untradeable with his contract, at least not without us picking up a fair amount of it.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:02 am

It will be interesting to see who goes
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:23 am

WiscTribeFan wrote:You'd think with Raburn, Murphy, Bourn, Swisher, Brantley and Stubbs, someone is going to have to go, even with playing them at DH and Swisher at 1B. That's quite a log-jam of players.

I see Stubbs getting dealt, if only for the fact that Bourn is probably untradeable with his contract, at least not without us picking up a fair amount of it.


I don't think Bourn is untradeable, but his value isn't what it would have been if he had a better season. With the price now at 15M, he still only has to be about a 2.5 WAR player to be worth the yearly deal. Last year was his first season below 3.7 WAR since 2009.

Stubbs is easier to move, though. I think you can get a Double-A arm with upside for him. The Mets should be looking hard at Stubbs and they have some young pitching that's very intriguing. Some hard throwers in their system. Problem is, they'll be terrible, especially if Harvey can't pitch.

Stubbs would be a good fit in Seattle. Good outfield for his skill set and they're stocked with left handed bats. A right handed stick would be good for them. Worst team in OF defensive runs saved last season. By 24 runs.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:44 pm

I think he is tradeable if we were willing to put money into the deal and/or not expect a great return. At $7M his production was fine. At nearly double that next year, I don't see a lot of takers. Maybe I'm wrong on that. We shall see.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:45 pm

WiscTribeFan wrote:I think he is tradeable if we were willing to put money into the deal and/or not expect a great return. At $7M his production was fine. At nearly double that next year, I don't see a lot of takers. Maybe I'm wrong on that. We shall see.


Yes, my mistake, 13.5M next year for Bourn. So 2.5 WAR would be above market value. That should be doable. He never really got on track last year with the hand injury and various other ailments. Plus first year in the AL. I'm looking for a 3 WAR season from Bourn, which would be great value at 13.5. Somebody else will think so as well and may pony up some nice assets for Bourn.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:01 pm

Kinsler for Fielder. Tigers probably eating some of Fielder's contract. Another smart move by Dombrowski. Kinsler fills a huge need for the Tigers and they can move Miggy to 1B now and he won't have to deal with the physical strain of playing 3B.

Can't believe somebody would take that Fielder contract.

Edit: Tigers sending 30M. Difference in owed salary between the two was over 100M.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:20 am

skatingtripods wrote:Kinsler for Fielder. Tigers probably eating some of Fielder's contract. Another smart move by Dombrowski. Kinsler fills a huge need for the Tigers and they can move Miggy to 1B now and he won't have to deal with the physical strain of playing 3B.

Can't believe somebody would take that Fielder contract.

Edit: Tigers sending 30M. Difference in owed salary between the two was over 100M.


Great deal for Detroit. Save on salary, get Miggy back to first, fill a hole at second... They just keep moving the goalposts on us.

It just got that much harder in the Central.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:37 am

does deal set up Texas for a run at Cano?
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:57 am

motherscratcher wrote:It just got that much harder in the Central.


Just wait until they re-sign Scherzer and add either Choo or Ellsbury.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:29 am

skatingtripods wrote:Indians reportedly taking a gamble on David Murphy, formerly with the Rangers. Expected to be a 2-year deal in the $10M range. Coming off very bad year, but career .816 OPS against LHP. Home/road splits are about what you'd expect with Arlington.

Re-thinking my initial opinion of the move. Figure Murphy and Raburn platoon in RF. Santana, Giambi, Raburn all in mix for DH at bats.

Between Murphy and Raburn, you could put out a 3-3.5 win RF without either guy having to have a ridiculous season. Play to their strengths. Serviceable defensively (Murphy's an above avg LF, slightly above avg RF).

I like this. BABIP was terribly low last season. Around league average bat on road with 100 wRC+. Should be better.


It's a very good, astute pickup. He clobbers RHP and is a good defender. with Raburn as the 4th OF we have a really strong OF corp even if it is light on HRs.

I hear we are strong contenders for Hudson too. Would love that addition to the rotation, and if we can re-sign Kazmir I'd be ecstatic
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:31 am

British_Pharaoh wrote:I hear we are strong contenders for Hudson too. Would love that addition to the rotation, and if we can re-sign Kazmir I'd be ecstatic


Hudson's already signed for the Giants - 2 years, $23m.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:35 am

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
British_Pharaoh wrote:I hear we are strong contenders for Hudson too. Would love that addition to the rotation, and if we can re-sign Kazmir I'd be ecstatic


Hudson's already signed for the Giants - 2 years, $23m.


Pitcher market is strange so far. 2/23 for Hudson, 2/35 for Lincecum, yet Josh Johnson only gets 1/8 from San Diego, and I think he's the best bet of the three. Hudson's 55% ground balls, so pitching in SF isn't a huge advantage. I'm not sure he can stay healthy throughout the year. 2800 innings and he'll be 39 in July.

Loved the Johnson signing for SD. I was actually hoping the Indians would take a chance. At 8M, I'm a little surprised they didn't. Much better gamble than 7M on Brett Myers last season.

The Indians may kick the tires on Phil Hughes, but I think they'll wait around and see who's left in February unless they trade Stubbs/Cabrera for pitching.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:32 am

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
British_Pharaoh wrote:I hear we are strong contenders for Hudson too. Would love that addition to the rotation, and if we can re-sign Kazmir I'd be ecstatic


Hudson's already signed for the Giants - 2 years, $23m.


As first reported by a parody account of a guy that doesn't exist on twitter. God bless 2013.
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:05 pm

A very good, in-depth look at the Murphy signing from Beyond the Box Score: http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2013/1 ... vid-murphy
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Re: The 2014 Offseason Thread

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:48 pm

Yeah, the Tigers really made a strong move that is very beneficial to them long-term. Gets Cabrera away from 3B, opens a spot for top prospect Nick Castellanos there, gets them out of a long-term contract they would be seriously regretting in a few years, and frees up salary that'll be handy for resigning Scherzer and/or Cabrera. Got to like it if you're a Tigers fan. Which means I hate it as an Indians fan.
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