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Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:57 am

http://www.pollspeak.com/component/option,com_psreport/Itemid,36/lang,en/r,T/s,25/t1,74/task,singleteamr/type,/w,13/year,/#football

I cannot find how the coaches in the USA Today Poll vote.

I can find who votes in the Harris Poll, but not week by week how they vote.

Also, remember that the AP poll might "build the narrative" as Furls suggests, but it does not count in the BCS standings.

There will always be assclowns who hate the Bucks or Urban or who are still punishing tOSU for last year when they were not eligible to be ranked, but to me the biggest farce is far and away the computer rankings.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:11 am

googleeph2 wrote:
jb wrote:IDK FMB. I don't think it's the system or the polls or whatever.

Etc.



Didn't Vanderbilt back out of OSU's 2013 schedule?

I think most of the fan frustration is over #3 slipping away, not over being frozen out of #1 and #2. Here comes Baylor. Yes, they have a gauntlet coming up. But look at the Ok St computer score vs. Michigan State - pretty similar. And Baylor almost overtook the Buckeyes this week, on the strength of a game very much like OSU-Ill.

It would have been Stanford, if they didn;t lose. As Furls said, keep an eye on Auburn, if Alabama loses (who didn't look impressive at unranked Miss St, by the way. There's a school that doesn't even have to ask to have non-2013 success count in 2013 rankings.)


I thought we were ranked ahead of Baylor in the BCS?

Look, when men were men and Meatchicken was Michigan I recall that Woody would schedule Oklahoma and UCLA regular season.

OSU miscalculated by imitating the SEC. The legacy programs are failing us.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:12 am

FUDU wrote:So JB, you're down with the notion that a close loss to a good team is better than a strong win over a bad team?



Much like Sine Aid O'Connor on the Sinatra Group, I don't understand the question (in relation to this thread).

But the correct answer is "it depends". Else Northern Illinois is ranked 5th, right?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:22 am

jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:So JB, you're down with the notion that a close loss to a good team is better than a strong win over a bad team?



Much like Sine Aid O'Connor on the Sinatra Group, I don't understand the question (in relation to this thread).

But the correct answer is "it depends". Else Northern Illinois is ranked 5th, right?


Regarding the voters, b/c that is how MANY of the voters feel. That a team like TTech losing to Baylor or a very middle of the road team losing a "nice" game to a top notch program is more worthy of reward/recognition than an OSU worthy of for beating a Penn State/Purdue/Illinois by 40-50pts.

CFB is more worried about perceptions than they are wins.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:35 am

FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:So JB, you're down with the notion that a close loss to a good team is better than a strong win over a bad team?



Much like Sine Aid O'Connor on the Sinatra Group, I don't understand the question (in relation to this thread).

But the correct answer is "it depends". Else Northern Illinois is ranked 5th, right?


Regarding the voters, b/c that is how MANY of the voters feel. That a team like TTech losing to Baylor or a very middle of the road team losing a "nice" game to a top notch program is more worthy of reward/recognition than an OSU worthy of for beating a Penn State/Purdue/Illinois by 40-50pts.

CFB is more worried about perceptions than they are wins.


Do you ever recall it being any different?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:41 am

googleeph2 wrote:Didn't Vanderbilt back out of OSU's 2013 schedule?


I have been trying NOT to argue that OSU's schedule would have looked tougher if they had only been allowed to play Vanderbilt...at the risk of getting laughed out of the room.

They are a legit team the last year or two, but it's like saying "if only Duke hadn't backed out of their scheduled game with us"

The non-conference schedule thing is certainly not a legitimate argument against OSU, as compared to FSU and Bama at least. Bama had not one FCS team, but two on the slate. FSU had a laughable non-con slate, save traditional rival Florida (having a down year). So say the B1G sucks...it does...but too many national media types are letting the other top programs off the hook if they don't examine the non-con slates they play.

Bama - Colo. St., Georgia State (FCS), Chattanooga (FCS), Va Tech

FSU - Nevada, Bethune Cookman (FCS), Idaho, Florida

What other team can look back on the last decade and see non-conference, 2-game series with USC, Texas, Miami...or look ahead a decade and see 2-gamers with Oklahoma, Oregon, Va Tech, TCU, Texas? (Word is that a home-and-home with Alabama is in the works too...not a matter of if, but when it will be announced)

I know I've repeated this ad nauseum, but OSU has nothing to apologize for in their non-con scheduling.

http://ohiostate.scout.com/3/fbschedule.html
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:46 am

danwismar wrote:
googleeph2 wrote:Didn't Vanderbilt back out of OSU's 2013 schedule?


I have been trying NOT to argue that OSU's schedule would have looked tougher if they had only been allowed to play Vanderbilt...at the risk of getting laughed out of the room.

They are a legit team the last year or two, but it's like saying "if only Duke hadn't backed out of their scheduled game with us"

The non-conference schedule thing is certainly not a legitimate argument against OSU, as compared to FSU and Bama at least. Bama had not one FCS team, but two on the slate. FSU had a laughable non-con slate, save traditional rival Florida (having a down year). So say the B1G sucks...it does...but too many national media types are letting the other top programs off the hook if they don't examine the non-con slates they play.

Bama - Colo. St., Georgia State (FCS), Chattanooga (FCS), Va Tech

FSU - Nevada, Bethune Cookman (FCS), Idaho, Florida

What other team can look back on the last decade and see non-conference, 2-game series with USC, Texas, Miami...or look ahead a decade and see 2-gamers with Oklahoma, Oregon, Va Tech, TCU, Texas?

I know I've repeated this ad nauseum, but OSU has nothing to apologize for in their non-con scheduling.

http://ohiostate.scout.com/3/fbschedule.html



Well, yes and no.

To your well stated point Wiz, tOSU is just mimicking what the SEC has done for years. One mid-level legit BCS conference team and two creeme puff scrimmages.

The difference is Bama's conference schedule. If you are in the SEC, you can do that. tOSU is not.

The nuance I'm stating is that there is no realistic way that tOSU could have known that at the time of making the schedule. Would any of us seriously have bet money 8 years ago that all 3 of the Big 10 legacy programs would be in this poor of shape?

The real question for tOSU isn't 2013. That dye is cast.

What should the strategy be for 2020?

Double down on what is failing us by mimicking the SEC or take the risk of adding some legacy games with the assumption those programs don't tank like Texas ?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:24 pm

I wouldn't change anything in terms of scheduling philosophy.

I think it's fine, especially with the four team playoff system looming and the likelihood that goes to eight teams in the not too distant future.

I think Meyer will continue to build a perennial Top 1-8 team with perennial Top 1-4 talent.

No need to get squirrely.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:53 pm

peeker643 wrote:I wouldn't change anything in terms of scheduling philosophy.

I think it's fine, especially with the four team playoff system looming and the likelihood that goes to eight teams in the not too distant future.

I think Meyer will continue to build a perennial Top 1-8 team with perennial Top 1-4 talent.

No need to get squirrely.



The change to a 4 team BCS is a very good point.

I'd like to see an approach of more "techs"?

You know, teams the ilk of Va Tech (coming), GA Tech, those with names that can put up a contest but not those on whom the season rides. If they happen to get upset, oh well. They didn't deserve a BCS run. IOW, add a few non-conference Wisky and Sparty names to build the resume.

No more than one creme puff anymore until the Big Ten has a rebirth. Make it a rotating Ohio MAC team for the taxpayers.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:16 pm

The strategy for 2020 is two BCS conference opponents...one elite (Oregon, BC) and one other game (TBD), and a 9-game B1G slate (beginning in 2017 I believe)

The game is changed for everyone starting next year, as teams clamor for inclusion in the top four, and cupcake non-con games will be penalized a lot more than they are now. My point is just that everybody plays a bunch of cupcakes now, and the criticism of it should be even-handed.

Biggest change for big-budget programs like OSU is the loss of the 8th guaranteed home game each year. With 9 conference games, every other year, OSU will play 5 road games in conference, giving them a max of 7 at home. They have to schedule the road game in those non-con series (Okla, Oregon, Texas) in the years when they have 5 B1G games at home, or else they'd be down to six home games.

It's the big reason OSU wasn't wild about going to the 9-game B1G schedule. You'd think it would hurt the low-revenue programs more than the big ones, but OSU supports many more non-revenue sports...36 in all, I think...than most other schools, and losing one home football game every other year costs them literally millions. I expect (another) hefty ticket price increase as a result.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:30 pm

danwismar wrote:The game is changed for everyone starting next year, as teams clamor for inclusion in the top four, and cupcake non-con games will be penalized a lot more than they are now. My point is just that everybody plays a bunch of cupcakes now, and the criticism of it should be even-handed.


Can not concur. It has to be considered in the context of the conference schedule.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:37 pm

One additional thing...SEC teams only risk coming north or west for road non-conference games on very rare occasions. (had this discussion with a Bama fan friend of mine recently, so it's fresh in my memory)

I went back 11 years with the Bama schedule to find legitimate road games (not neutral site) outside the southeast...and there's ONE in 11 seasons...2011 at Penn State, as part of a home-home series. No, Michigan at JerryWorld last year doesn't count...neutral site in the south. In '02 and '03, they took recruiting carrot, vacation trips to Hawaii...which can't really count either.

The other name programs in the SEC...GA, FL, LSU...don't venture far from home very often either. Maybe they'll continue to get away with that for a time...like jb says, they're in the SEC after all...but the game does change for everyone next year.

Even in the SEC, if, Like Bama this year, you can avoid playing all three of the best teams from the other division...GA. SC and FL, the SEC slate isn't as tough as it's cracked up to be. (I know, OSU avoided Neb and MSU this year too)
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:41 pm

danwismar wrote:One additional thing...SEC teams only risk coming north or west for road non-conference games on very rare occasions. (had this discussion with a Bama fan friend of mine recently, so it's fresh in my memory)

I went back 11 years with the Bama schedule to find legitimate road games (not neutral site) outside the southeast...and there's ONE in 11 seasons...2011 at Penn State, as part of a home-home series. No, Michigan at JerryWorld last year doesn't count...neutral site in the south. In '02 and '03, they took recruiting carrot, vacation trips to Hawaii...which can't really count either.

The other name programs in the SEC...GA, FL, LSU...don't venture far from home very often either. Maybe they'll continue to get away with that for a time...like jb says, they're in the SEC after all...but the game does change for everyone next year.

Even in the SEC, if, Like Bama this year, you can avoid playing all three of the best teams from the other division...GA. SC and FL, the SEC slate isn't as tough as it's cracked up to be. (I know, OSU avoided Neb and MSU this year too)


Why would you? If you don't have to?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:44 pm

jb wrote:Can not concur. It has to be considered in the context of the conference schedule.


Can not concur. You think that since Alabama plays in the big, bad SEC that they would pay no price with the selection committee from 2014-on if they play four Chattanoogas and Georgia States every season?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:53 pm

jb wrote:Why would you? If you don't have to?


For the same reason OSU schedules Oregon, Texas and Oklahoma (and soon, Alabama) in the next few years, including traveling to each of those campuses for games. They don't have to do that either. They could schedule Kansas St, Arizona and Georgia Tech instead. They're leading by example...just as JT did for the last decade...by giving fans (and TV networks $$$) compelling early-season games to entertain (and enrich)
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:00 pm

I guess you can make the case that the SEC doesn't have to enhance their national "prestige" by playing any tough non-con opponents, but consider...

There's nothing that says the same type of "fall" experienced by UM, PSU and others in the B1G can't happen to big name SEC programs. Just in the last few years we've seen three BCS-bowl teams quickly devolve into doormats (Auburn and Arkansas, and to a lesser degree Florida) although Auburn quickly reversed course and is back to respectability.

As we've seen, when you schedule 7-10 years out, a lot can evolve in college football, especially with the coaching changes being as volatile as they have been. (Just under HALF of all FBS teams have changed coaches within the last TWO seasons)

Consider too that the list of decent FBS programs who are willing to trade a million dollar pay day for a nearly guaranteed humiliating defeat in Columbus cannot be a very long one.(...or in the event of a home-and-home series...two probable losses.)
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:03 pm

danwismar wrote:
jb wrote:Why would you? If you don't have to?


For the same reason OSU schedules Oregon, Texas and Oklahoma (and soon, Alabama) in the next few years, including traveling to each of those campuses for games. They don't have to do that either.



Well, apparently they do.

Unless they want to be outside looking in as they are this year.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:04 pm

danwismar wrote:I guess you can make the case that the SEC doesn't have to enhance their national "prestige" by playing any tough non-con opponents, but consider...

There's nothing that says the same type of "fall" experienced by UM, PSU and others in the B1G can't happen to big name SEC programs.



Other than demographics, money, and "prioritization" of winning.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:30 pm

FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:So JB, you're down with the notion that a close loss to a good team is better than a strong win over a bad team?



Much like Sine Aid O'Connor on the Sinatra Group, I don't understand the question (in relation to this thread).

But the correct answer is "it depends". Else Northern Illinois is ranked 5th, right?


Regarding the voters, b/c that is how MANY of the voters feel.


It appears that way, although we're guessing about how they really feel when the AP doesn't count, the Harris poll is confidential, and the USA Today Coaches poll is not made public until after the season, unless the media specifically asks a coach and he answers.

My guess, though, as has been pointed out by Dan, is it's not the non-con schedule but rather "quality wins".

It's the perception that the Big 10 blows dead goats and tOSU is being penalized by simply being a team in that conference. That, and all of the other subjective tOSU backlash bullshit - Meyer, the probation, the media fatigue - it all factors in.

JB is right - UM, Wisky, PSU, and the Huskers need to get their shit straight most riki tik, or scheduling a home and home with Bama won't matter if the Big 10 continues to deconstruct itself into the American Athletic Conference.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:10 pm

JB,

Let's not revise history. In 2004 when the home and home with Cal was set, which would have been the bigger game, Oregon or Cal? How "great" does that VT game next year look now? It looks like trash. What if it had been USC last year or Texas the last 3 years? Again garbage.

You set schedules against other premier teams a decade in advance, but you have no idea what you are getting. Hell when OSU set that scheduled Miami series, that would have been a kin to putting 'Bama on the schedule. You literally have no idea how good (or bad) your premier non con sked is and for that matter what your schedule is. I can tell you that your proposed solution of OSU filling its non con with elite teams CANNOT happen. They need home game revenue and you don't get what you need from home and homes.

I don't have a problem with FSU or 'Bama being ahead of OSU. OSU controlled its own destiny when it started this season at #2, when Meyer and company chose to take their foot off the gas against Buffalo they lost that luxury. That was the day the slide began. What I have a problem with is the epic search for teams (with nearly identical resumes) to pass OSU and the way companies like ESPN (in particular) are deliberately shaping the narrative. The Buckeyes are NOT paying for a weak schedule, they are paying for a weak conference, and that narrative is being pushed in the name of trolling a fan base for clicks.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:21 pm

furls wrote:The Buckeyes are NOT paying for a weak schedule, they are paying for a weak conference, and that narrative is being pushed in the name of trolling a fan base for clicks.



Well, they certainly found their huckleberry regarding that fan base, didn't they?

Doesn't matter.

CDT has already claimed that an undefeated OSU team winning a bowl game is national champion on par with the actual winner of the BCS bowl game.

Which is binding, right?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:01 pm

jb wrote:
danwismar wrote:I guess you can make the case that the SEC doesn't have to enhance their national "prestige" by playing any tough non-con opponents, but consider...

There's nothing that says the same type of "fall" experienced by UM, PSU and others in the B1G can't happen to big name SEC programs.



Other than demographics, money, and "prioritization" of winning.


Again, I gave three examples of what you imply can't or shouldn't happen. (Demographics favor Fayetteville?)
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:56 pm

furls wrote:JB,

Let's not revise history. In 2004 when the home and home with Cal was set, which would have been the bigger game, Oregon or Cal? How "great" does that VT game next year look now? It looks like trash. What if it had been USC last year or Texas the last 3 years? Again garbage.

You set schedules against other premier teams a decade in advance, but you have no idea what you are getting. Hell when OSU set that scheduled Miami series, that would have been a kin to putting 'Bama on the schedule. You literally have no idea how good (or bad) your premier non con sked is and for that matter what your schedule is. I can tell you that your proposed solution of OSU filling its non con with elite teams CANNOT happen. They need home game revenue and you don't get what you need from home and homes.

I don't have a problem with FSU or 'Bama being ahead of OSU. OSU controlled its own destiny when it started this season at #2, when Meyer and company chose to take their foot off the gas against Buffalo they lost that luxury. That was the day the slide began. What I have a problem with is the epic search for teams (with nearly identical resumes) to pass OSU and the way companies like ESPN (in particular) are deliberately shaping the narrative. The Buckeyes are NOT paying for a weak schedule, they are paying for a weak conference, and that narrative is being pushed in the name of trolling a fan base for clicks.



I'm agreeing with you Furls.

Scheduling out is an incredibly inexact task. The Buckeyes are just left holding the bag. I'm suggesting with the now perpetuating "meh" ness of the formerly Big 10 they are compelled to now take some risks that an SEC team does not.

People can muse on about the fairness of that, but I think reality is such that the SEC will get the halo effect. So do they cry about it or remediate?

But to answer your question, I do think in 04 Bellotti had Oregon moving at a more consistent trajectory even though IIRC the mid Otts were a trough of .500ish seasons for Belotti before Chipper. But no one would think they'd be a consistent top 5 team.

PS - If your theory is right I look forward to a Whisky - Baylor BCS game.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:00 pm

danwismar wrote:
jb wrote:
danwismar wrote:I guess you can make the case that the SEC doesn't have to enhance their national "prestige" by playing any tough non-con opponents, but consider...

There's nothing that says the same type of "fall" experienced by UM, PSU and others in the B1G can't happen to big name SEC programs.



Other than demographics, money, and "prioritization" of winning.


Again, I gave three examples of what you imply can't or shouldn't happen. (Demographics favor Fayetteville?)


Oh, don't act like we're on NHB talking politics and be that purposefully dense. ;-)

You know I am referring to traditional conference recruiting strong holds.

Sure, Urbs can walk into Wichita Falls, TX with respect. D'Antonio or Ferenz or Bo? Not so much.

Ohio and Texas, Florida and Georgia on on different paths.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:13 pm

jb wrote:
furls wrote:JB,

Let's not revise history. In 2004 when the home and home with Cal was set, which would have been the bigger game, Oregon or Cal? How "great" does that VT game next year look now? It looks like trash. What if it had been USC last year or Texas the last 3 years? Again garbage.

You set schedules against other premier teams a decade in advance, but you have no idea what you are getting. Hell when OSU set that scheduled Miami series, that would have been a kin to putting 'Bama on the schedule. You literally have no idea how good (or bad) your premier non con sked is and for that matter what your schedule is. I can tell you that your proposed solution of OSU filling its non con with elite teams CANNOT happen. They need home game revenue and you don't get what you need from home and homes.

I don't have a problem with FSU or 'Bama being ahead of OSU. OSU controlled its own destiny when it started this season at #2, when Meyer and company chose to take their foot off the gas against Buffalo they lost that luxury. That was the day the slide began. What I have a problem with is the epic search for teams (with nearly identical resumes) to pass OSU and the way companies like ESPN (in particular) are deliberately shaping the narrative. The Buckeyes are NOT paying for a weak schedule, they are paying for a weak conference, and that narrative is being pushed in the name of trolling a fan base for clicks.



I'm agreeing with you Furls.

Scheduling out is an incredibly inexact task. The Buckeyes are just left holding the bag. I'm suggesting with the now perpetuating "meh" ness of the formerly Big 10 they are compelled to now take some risks that an SEC team does not.

People can muse on about the fairness of that, but I think reality is such that the SEC will get the halo effect. So do they cry about it or remediate?

But to answer your question, I do think in 04 Bellotti had Oregon moving at a more consistent trajectory even though IIRC the mid Otts were a trough of .500ish seasons for Belotti before Chipper. But no one would think they'd be a consistent top 5 team.

PS - If your theory is right I look forward to a Whisky - Baylor BCS game.


Honestly, I think they can pretty much bank on an 8-16 team playoff by 2020! Probably 8. If they beat 12 HS teams they will make top 8.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:25 pm

jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:So JB, you're down with the notion that a close loss to a good team is better than a strong win over a bad team?



Much like Sine Aid O'Connor on the Sinatra Group, I don't understand the question (in relation to this thread).

But the correct answer is "it depends". Else Northern Illinois is ranked 5th, right?


Regarding the voters, b/c that is how MANY of the voters feel. That a team like TTech losing to Baylor or a very middle of the road team losing a "nice" game to a top notch program is more worthy of reward/recognition than an OSU worthy of for beating a Penn State/Purdue/Illinois by 40-50pts.

CFB is more worried about perceptions than they are wins.


Do you ever recall it being any different?


A little different yes, but enough to legitimately quantify, I don't know.

Dan & furls already laid down the foundation for the argument, no need to repeat it, but I only ask who (individual program or conference) plays a consistently difficult schedule, with exception to the years the SEC IS actually way more difficult than any other conference.

I can't help but again point to a middle of the road Big 12 team in Missouri and they're having their way with the SECE. Big bad SEC? 24/7/365?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:46 am

FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:So JB, you're down with the notion that a close loss to a good team is better than a strong win over a bad team?



Much like Sine Aid O'Connor on the Sinatra Group, I don't understand the question (in relation to this thread).

But the correct answer is "it depends". Else Northern Illinois is ranked 5th, right?


Regarding the voters, b/c that is how MANY of the voters feel. That a team like TTech losing to Baylor or a very middle of the road team losing a "nice" game to a top notch program is more worthy of reward/recognition than an OSU worthy of for beating a Penn State/Purdue/Illinois by 40-50pts.

CFB is more worried about perceptions than they are wins.


Do you ever recall it being any different?


A little different yes, but enough to legitimately quantify, I don't know.

Dan & furls already laid down the foundation for the argument, no need to repeat it, but I only ask who (individual program or conference) plays a consistently difficult schedule, with exception to the years the SEC IS actually way more difficult than any other conference.

I can't help but again point to a middle of the road Big 12 team in Missouri and they're having their way with the SECE. Big bad SEC? 24/7/365?



two things, Donny.

I'm tellin yah true, CFB has always been rife with voting/poll politics and subjectivity. Sometimes it is above board sometimes it is BS. What passes muster as valid one year changes the next with little rhyme nor reason. I can give litany of examples from days of yore if you want that drudgery.

As for conference perception?

I'm telling you how it is. The SEC has a halo. The way that can change is when enough of their legacy programs hit hard coaching times or go on probation. Given how recent investigations have turned out I no longer think they are probation vulnerable. Given what they will do to pay coaches I think they have an up on most of the rest of the nation not names Texas or Ohio State. The Big 10 is perceived as a lessor BCS major for good reason. It is. The legacy programs other than tOSU are terrible. When and if that turns there can be more conference equillibrium.

Your telling me how it should be.

If you want to go down the path of how it should be, kewl.

This is all a bunch of BCS.

Take the top 16 and play it out over the four whole agonizing weeks it'd take these scholar athletes to destroy the integrity of college athletics, missing all those classes and such. Everything else is complete crap. That's how it should be. Its an athletic contest for cryin out loud. Those have been determined on the field since there was nekkit Greeks a wrasslin.

I bet the AP had the Persians as 10,000 casualty favorites at the Marathon, too.

This is all so clear to me IDK how there's even a thread, really.

The real thread is this: what is the damage with those thinking this is all vast mark may-wing anti-OSU konspiracy? What could the national motivation possibly be that would be any different than say, anti-Oklahoma?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:20 pm

jb wrote:Take the top 16 and play it out over the four whole agonizing weeks it'd take these scholar athletes to destroy the integrity of college athletics, missing all those classes and such. Everything else is complete crap. That's how it should be.


Anyone hear Stan Van Gundy on the LeBatard Show?

Integrity?

A sizable majority of college hoops One & Dones attend fall classes to the extent that they stay eligible to play in the Spring semester. Then they attend no classes in the Spring because grades aren't in til after the tourney.

Integrity of the NCAA indeed.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:48 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Take the top 16 and play it out over the four whole agonizing weeks it'd take these scholar athletes to destroy the integrity of college athletics, missing all those classes and such. Everything else is complete crap. That's how it should be.


Anyone hear Stan Van Gundy on the LeBatard Show?

Integrity?

A sizable majority of college hoops One & Dones attend fall classes to the extent that they stay eligible to play in the Spring semester. Then they attend no classes in the Spring because grades aren't in til after the tourney.

Integrity of the NCAA indeed.


Did you miss that Eng 101 lecture of sarcasm/satire hungover freshman year at BG?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:20 pm

FUDU wrote:I can't help but again point to a middle of the road Big 12 team in Missouri and they're having their way with the SECE. Big bad SEC? 24/7/365?


The SEC this year has turned into 'Bama and a pile of Meh. As long as the Tide rolls and keeps winning in January, though, nobody's taking the halo from them or the conference and rightfully so.

That said, imagine if Baylor jumps tOSU, the Tide craps the bed against Auburn, and FSU makes into January at #1. What better way to send off the BCS than following up 'Bama running the train on ND with the 'Noles running the train on the Bears?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:09 pm

I love this, kind of proves that this conspiracy is not just in my head.

Image
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:24 pm

29 is much higher and impressive than 25.

And that's not manipulating outcomes with 2 words, it's very true. OSU did survive the trip home, they're safe and sound.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:26 pm

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you JB, other than no need for 16 team playoff, 8 is fine, traditionally nobody outside of top ten has EVER had an argument to be included in title chase.

I've said this a million times, NCAA = Det. Alonzo Harris.

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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:02 pm

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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:02 pm

furls wrote:I love this, kind of proves that this conspiracy is not just in my head.

Image


I saw this making the rounds on Saturday. But before they had the juxtaposition of the Baylor adn OSU headlines next to each other, it was going around that when the OSU recap was first posted, ESPN had a headline along the lines of OSU Rolls (or something similar). It was posted Saturday for around an hour before the headline changed to the current OSU Survives headline.

I didn't see it so I can't confirm but I saw it referred to a few times. If true, it's hard to argue against the ESPN driven narrative against OSU. Whatever the reason would be for that I'm not sure, other than the enormous gaping conflict of interest ESPN has in making money off of some of the football that it unbiasedly covers. But other than that...
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:05 pm

According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:13 pm

motherscratcher wrote:


:pb:

I can't make it through that entire stupid shitshow.



It's Gil Brandt. You may disagree. I just think there's reasons for the low perception of the Big 10 rather than a vast conspiracy.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:23 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
furls wrote:I love this, kind of proves that this conspiracy is not just in my head.

Image


I saw this making the rounds on Saturday. But before they had the juxtaposition of the Baylor adn OSU headlines next to each other, it was going around that when the OSU recap was first posted, ESPN had a headline along the lines of OSU Rolls (or something similar). It was posted Saturday for around an hour before the headline changed to the current OSU Survives headline.

I didn't see it so I can't confirm but I saw it referred to a few times. If true, it's hard to argue against the ESPN driven narrative against OSU. Whatever the reason would be for that I'm not sure, other than the enormous gaping conflict of interest ESPN has in making money off of some of the football that it unbiasedly covers. But other than that...


I saw the headline and I was surprised... it said "OSU Blows by the Illini" then it was changed to OSU rides Hyde (or something) then to OSU Survives. It was ridiculous.

JB,

I will not debate that overall talent is down in the B1G and perception of B1G talent as a whole is down, but that shit with the OSU headlines is ridiculous. There are also a lot of underrated guys that slide under the RADAR that are doing pretty damn well in the NCAA, guys like Kurt Coleman and Jim Cordle. There are others from other teams, but I can't think of them off the top of my head because I don't watch that much NFL ball. Every game I watch though, I am surprised that random player X from Purdue or Iowa is still in the league and doing well.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:48 pm



I'm not going to try and discredit that whole article, but he's got some bias IMO, simply by the fact that he says "the Big Ten will always be", when comparing them to other conferences, IOW he has made up his mind.

He makes lots of good and valid points, but gets really carried away with others, like that for every Gordon Wiscy has Baylor has 5, that's retarded. Baylor while good, and very quick, is NOT that deep at one position let alone 3 or 4.

Plus he gives no mention to Meyer's scheme, and Miller being behind center. Nor does he lend an credence to Hyde's possible biggest attribute, size and strength. He might not break 2 50yd runs verse a "Baylor", but he most certainly would take his toll on them.

While OSU is no lock to take out a Baylor, Baylor's offense is that good IMO, for him to state it as the Buckeyes wouldn't stand a chance is absurd, and completely dissing the Buckeyes offense.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:04 pm

FUDU wrote:


I'm not going to try and discredit that whole article, but he's got some bias IMO, simply by the fact that he says "the Big Ten will always be", when comparing them to other conferences, IOW he has made up his mind.

He makes lots of good and valid points, but gets really carried away with others, like that for every Gordon Wiscy has Baylor has 5, that's retarded. Baylor while good, and very quick, is NOT that deep at one position let alone 3 or 4.

Plus he gives no mention to Meyer's scheme, and Miller being behind center. Nor does he lend an credence to Hyde's possible biggest attribute, size and strength. He might not break 2 50yd runs verse a "Baylor", but he most certainly would take his toll on them.

While OSU is no lock to take out a Baylor, Baylor's offense is that good IMO, for him to state it as the Buckeyes wouldn't stand a chance is absurd, and completely dissing the Buckeyes offense.


He is defending his decision to jump Baylor over tOSU, so he needs to claim Baylor is the better team. Agree that the hyperbole doesn't help make the article seem objective.

But, the rest of the story is pretty much spot on. The Big 10 needs to evolve or become irrelevant - the current state of the conference is so pathetic that tOSU is being grossly and unfairly penalized.

For all the peeps who want to "settle it on the field" - take a look at the Big 10 record in BCS games. Outside of tOSU it's a fucking embarrassment.

tOSU is a very very good to almost great team stuck in a shit sandwich of a conference. And that, unfortunately, is not going to change anytime soon.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:26 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Take the top 16 and play it out over the four whole agonizing weeks it'd take these scholar athletes to destroy the integrity of college athletics, missing all those classes and such. Everything else is complete crap. That's how it should be.


Anyone hear Stan Van Gundy on the LeBatard Show?

Integrity?

A sizable majority of college hoops One & Dones attend fall classes to the extent that they stay eligible to play in the Spring semester. Then they attend no classes in the Spring because grades aren't in til after the tourney.

Integrity of the NCAA indeed.


Did you miss that Eng 101 lecture of sarcasm/satire hungover freshman year at BG?


Nope. I just heard him say that last week and shook my head. I knew you were being sarcastic.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:03 pm

FANTASTIC READ from Ramzy.

He says it perfectly right here. If I would've just waited till today, I could have not had a single original thought or typed a word and just pasted this link. It would have saved thousands of bytes of memory on the server!

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2013/11/2 ... ckeyes-bcs
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:08 pm

jb wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:


:pb:

I can't make it through that entire stupid shitshow.



It's Gil Brandt. You may disagree. I just think there's reasons for the low perception of the Big 10 rather than a vast conspiracy.


Maybe I'll go back and read the whole thing. just stopped after it started out with basically "The B1G is slow and therefore OSU is slow and therefore Baylor would beat them and it wouldn't be close". Because that's simple and ridiculous. That is critical thinking the level of most callers who mkae it through onto the Bull and Fox show.

The B1G sucks. This is not news. But the B1G sucking doesn't automatically meant that Baylor is good. And just because Purdue sucks doesn't mean that the Buckeyes suck by some kind of football osmosis when they come in contact with each other.

The Buckeyes do not suck. ANd they certainly do not suck becuase they are slow. It's fucking lazy bullhit.

Yeah, the B1G is slow. Remember all of the Buckeyes stik in the mud lugging around those pianos in the Rose Bowl against Oregon a few years back? Take that slow ass team and add in all of the slow ass monopedal hopping motherfuckers that Urbs has brought in from the northern peninsula the last few years and you have a team that would get run over by Baylor. 'Cuz fast and stuff.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:35 pm

Nice link furls. I learned that we've had two byes as well, LOL.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:46 pm

One of the most frustrating things in all of this is the lack of credit Meyer and the team are getting for their 22 game winning streak.

Even great, dynasty level teams frequently lose one game during the course of the season. "Any given day" and all of that on top of the whole injury variable, individudal match-up issues, travel/bye week schedules, etc.. OSU has won every game put in front of them for close to 2 years. That is amazing but no one in the media is even giving any credit for that.

Statistically speaking, even if the better team should win each individual game 90% of the time the chance of going undefeated in a 12 or 13 game season is only 25%-30%. The chance of doing it 2 years in a row is like 5-10%

Hell, even the dynasty 1970's Steelers used to lose to our mediocre 1970's Browns sometimes. The consistency and accomplishments of Meyer and the team are amazing but it is being sabotaged by those media deuch bags.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:02 pm

If you are 90% likely to win every game the probability of winning 22 in a row is only 9%. The actual odds of winning their 22 in a row are significantly lower because their are actually several games in there that they would have been only 60-70% likely to win (maybe even lower). Wisconsin this year, @ Wisconsin last year, @MSU last year, @Nebraska last year.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:45 am

furls wrote:I love this, kind of proves that this conspiracy is not just in my head.

Image


Don't have a screen grab, the headline last Friday for the Clemson wins was similar, 'Clemson Crushes GT' for a similar score as the two listed here.

I mention this also to show that the geniuses at ESPN do in fact know at least 2 adjectives for winning by a large margin, which is not evident in the Baylor Screencap.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Govbarney » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:37 am



This is just lazy... He compared the speed of Baylor to the speed of the B1G by comparing a game he was on the sidelines for, to watching a game on TV. Let me tell you, from the sidelines prospective a JV High School game looks fast compared to a NFL game on TV. I once had the pleasure of watching a OSU game from the sidelines, cool, but by far the worst seats in the house from a spectators perspective, due to the staggering speed of the game (and we where playing Iowa). Its the reason most coordinators watch the game from the very top of the stadium.

And I love this statement: "Running back Carlos Hyde, a good player with great balance, scored five touchdowns in the game, two from beyond 50 yards. But what got my attention is how a slow defensive Illini team was able to catch him from behind on a 26-yard run at the end of the first quarter. It's a small thing, but very telling of his lack of speed and quickness."

He is 240LBS ran for 246 yards (including the mentioned 50+ yard runs) and avg. 10 YPC. but no he is slow because on one 26 yard running play he was caught from behind... Why is he slow... because the slow Illinois 190LB DBs got lucky and caught him from behind on one play... I am not saying he is Usain Bolt, But to say he is faster or slower then any other 240lbs RB at any level of football based off this play seems like a bit of a stretch.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:50 pm

Govbarney wrote:


This is just lazy... He compared the speed of Baylor to the speed of the B1G by comparing a game he was on the sidelines for, to watching a game on TV. Let me tell you, from the sidelines prospective a JV High School game looks fast compared to a NFL game on TV. I once had the pleasure of watching a OSU game from the sidelines, cool, but by far the worst seats in the house from a spectators perspective, due to the staggering speed of the game (and we where playing Iowa). Its the reason most coordinators watch the game from the very top of the stadium.

And I love this statement: "Running back Carlos Hyde, a good player with great balance, scored five touchdowns in the game, two from beyond 50 yards. But what got my attention is how a slow defensive Illini team was able to catch him from behind on a 26-yard run at the end of the first quarter. It's a small thing, but very telling of his lack of speed and quickness."

He is 240LBS ran for 246 yards (including the mentioned 50+ yard runs) and avg. 10 YPC. but no he is slow because on one 26 yard running play he was caught from behind... Why is he slow... because the slow Illinois 190LB DBs got lucky and caught him from behind on one play... I am not saying he is Usain Bolt, But to say he is faster or slower then any other 240lbs RB at any level of football based off this play seems like a bit of a stretch.



Don't mistake my passing it along s an endorsement.

All I'm saying is that it's pone thing for Mediots like Mark may to be whackjobs with agenda. I know Gil Bradt was born with spurs on and I know where baylor is but he's a pretty decent media source.

The perception is out there that the Big 10 is so crappy there is literally nothing the Buckeyes can do in conference to get ahead in the minds of the voters. That's how far it's gone.

The company we keep is killing us in the perceptions of the voters.

And yes, I understand the unfairness and bias that the Big 12 sucks worse.

I'm just rooted in their reality. It ain't lookin' good for us.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby bac5665 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:30 pm

On SI, Mandel was saying that while there is bias, the computers are still down on us. Fuels, or anyone else, is there any reasonable way to argue against the computers? I see it as pretty unlikely that Baylor would be better than us in the computers, but if it is, that's pretty damning for us.
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