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Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:39 pm

jb wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
jb wrote:The ACC if far better than the Bog 10. Clemson bets Wisky by. 21. The Big 10 is like the 40 year old former jock at the bar that is fat bloated and out of shape talking about over how he won state in wrestling over two dozen wings on his 5th beer.


Wings are good. Beer is good. And if you ever won state in wresting, that's pretty fucking impressive. Especially in ohio.



Well that's the point genius. In the 80s & 90s & Otts the an big 10 was in a renaissance after being down in the 70s with the annual PAC 10 beat down. It was the state rasslin champ. Now it's Purdue getting beat up by the MAC.

The ACC is The Conference of Tomorrow on the side of demographics.


Well, then I'm with you fellas.

Why did the B1G drop off so much? Is it all about recruiting?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:52 pm

jb wrote:Sparty is meh. Wisky is meh .

The Bucks are now elite.

The rest of the Big 10 is the MAC.

Clemson : FSU :: Oregon : Stanford

Clemson spent time in the elite this season. Wisky is meh.



Here is where we disagree. I have seen nothing out of Clemson that leads me to believe that they are good. Where is the good win on that schedule? There are a couple of bad wins. I've watched them, they don't pass the look test. I have seen their outcomes, those don't pass the sniff test. Clemson is a team living for a long time off of win over a "big" win over a very meh UGA team and a bowl game that got them started high in the rankings.

The only good team they played this year KILLED them. I expect them to lose handily to a very average USCe team too. I am thinking 2 TDs.

By no means am I saying that Wisconsin is elite, just that I think they are as good or better than Clemson. I tend to agree with Sparty being meh, because the O is crap.

You still never got around to telling me who else is good in the ACC aside from FSU or Clemson.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:56 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
jb wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
jb wrote:The ACC if far better than the Bog 10. Clemson bets Wisky by. 21. The Big 10 is like the 40 year old former jock at the bar that is fat bloated and out of shape talking about over how he won state in wrestling over two dozen wings on his 5th beer.


Wings are good. Beer is good. And if you ever won state in wresting, that's pretty fucking impressive. Especially in ohio.



Well that's the point genius. In the 80s & 90s & Otts the an big 10 was in a renaissance after being down in the 70s with the annual PAC 10 beat down. It was the state rasslin champ. Now it's Purdue getting beat up by the MAC.

The ACC is The Conference of Tomorrow on the side of demographics.


Well, then I'm with you fellas.

Why did the B1G drop off so much? Is it all about recruiting?


Coaching is huge in NCAAF and the B1G ADs are so cheap that it blows my mind. It is more about coaching than anything else, but the B1G recruiting is certainly a factor too. Who are the elite B1G coaches? Meyer and then who? Dantonio does a lot with little. Ferentz is OK. Who else is good?

Kevin Wilson is a prime example of the value of coaching. He took a crap roster at Indiana and turned it into an exciting offense, he still has a ways to go on D, but the point is clear... good coaches find a way to get it done with 2-3* talent.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:59 pm

I have no idea how Ferentz still has a job.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:12 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have no idea how Ferentz still has a job.


Who the fuck else is Iowa going to get? Have you seen Ferentz's contract? If they fired him it would bankrupt the entire state of Iowa.

Ferentz is under contract until 2020 and his buyout right now is ~18.8MM. His annual salary is much higher due to the bonuses that he is not paid on a buyout.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:17 am

Jerry Kill is doing good things up in Minnesota - if he can stay healthy it could be interesting to watch them in the next few years. The guy did good things and NIU and now seems to be making strides in Minnesota also.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:41 am

I almost feel like JB directed that wrestling remark at me.

I lost count somewhere around the 19th or 20th.

BTW while we're talking B10, um what's the deal with NW, 0 conference wins...?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:55 am

FUDU wrote:I almost feel like JB directed that wrestling remark at me.

I lost count somewhere around the 19th or 20th.

BTW while we're talking B10, um what's the deal with NW, 0 conference wins...?


Well, NW still hasn't played scUM yet, so that should get them one!

Holy shit, have you ever seen an offense worse than their's? Seriously. -69 yards rushing the last two weeks. They single-handedly made MSU look like the 85 Bears. MSU has a good defense, but it is not as good as scUM made it look. Nebraska's D is horrible, and they still had -21 yards rushing yesterday.

How bad is that going to look against tOSU?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:05 am

Ferentz has a lifetime job. Hawkeye fan loves him and the fan base has no expectations.

They will always return the loyalty he showed before he was cold product.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:12 am

FUDU wrote:I almost feel like JB directed that wrestling remark at me.

I lost count somewhere around the 19th or 20th.

BTW while we're talking B10, um what's the deal with NW, 0 conference wins...?



Cheddar Bob you again shoot yourself.

You miss the apt analogy even after I explain it.

The ACC isn't the SEC or even PAC whatever. But Clemson has better players by far than Sparty & Wisky. Real draft prospects & playmakers. You can diss the UGA win but that was a different team when healthy. Yeah, they all have the Wakes and Purdoodoos but I still like Miami & Va Techs over Meatchicken & NWern.

Now Baylor & the Big French ? Crap.

Again tho I think we take this conference stuff & SOS too far. None of it means the Bucks aren't an elite team and FSU is a bit better.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Govbarney » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:21 am

FUDU wrote:I almost feel like JB directed that wrestling remark at me.

I lost count somewhere around the 19th or 20th.

BTW while we're talking B10, um what's the deal with NW, 0 conference wins...?


That loss against OSU crushed NWs soul. Until the week following that game I felt they where the second or third best team in the B1G, after that defeat to OSU they where a shell of their former selfs , and have yet to recover.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:30 pm

jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:I almost feel like JB directed that wrestling remark at me.

I lost count somewhere around the 19th or 20th.

BTW while we're talking B10, um what's the deal with NW, 0 conference wins...?



Cheddar Bob you again shoot yourself.

You miss the apt analogy even after I explain it.

The ACC isn't the SEC or even PAC whatever. But Clemson has better players by far than Sparty & Wisky. Real draft prospects & playmakers. You can diss the UGA win but that was a different team when healthy. Yeah, they all have the Wakes and Purdoodoos but I still like Miami & Va Techs over Meatchicken & NWern.

Now Baylor & the Big French ? Crap.

Again tho I think we take this conference stuff & SOS too far. None of it means the Bucks aren't an elite team and FSU is a bit better.


Yeah, well you were nice enough to compare the 3rd and 4th best teams in the ACC to the 8th and 9th best team in the B1G, I like that better too. Number of draft prospects is not really indicative of the best conference unless you are an NFL GM.

I disagree about UGA. They were overrated from day 1. Sure, injuries have made things worse, but they were not great on day. That "elite" Clemson struggled with a terrible NCSU team and BC. They are not elite.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:32 pm

jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:I almost feel like JB directed that wrestling remark at me.

I lost count somewhere around the 19th or 20th.

BTW while we're talking B10, um what's the deal with NW, 0 conference wins...?



Cheddar Bob you again shoot yourself.

You miss the apt analogy even after I explain it.

The ACC isn't the SEC or even PAC whatever. But Clemson has better players by far than Sparty & Wisky. Real draft prospects & playmakers. You can diss the UGA win but that was a different team when healthy. Yeah, they all have the Wakes and Purdoodoos but I still like Miami & Va Techs over Meatchicken & NWern.

Now Baylor & the Big French ? Crap.

Again tho I think we take this conference stuff & SOS too far. None of it means the Bucks aren't an elite team and FSU is a bit better.



Even if I conceded that Clemson could beat any team in the B1G not named OSU (which I haven't) you still have yet to show a viable 3rd, 4th, or 5th best team in that conference. Once you get past Clemson that league is GARBAGE (aside from VaTech's D).
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:47 pm

jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:I almost feel like JB directed that wrestling remark at me.

I lost count somewhere around the 19th or 20th.

BTW while we're talking B10, um what's the deal with NW, 0 conference wins...?



Cheddar Bob you again shoot yourself.

You miss the apt analogy even after I explain it.

The ACC isn't the SEC or even PAC whatever. But Clemson has better players by far than Sparty & Wisky. Real draft prospects & playmakers. You can diss the UGA win but that was a different team when healthy. Yeah, they all have the Wakes and Purdoodoos but I still like Miami & Va Techs over Meatchicken & NWern.

Now Baylor & the Big French ? Crap.

Again tho I think we take this conference stuff & SOS too far. None of it means the Bucks aren't an elite team and FSU is a bit better.


I was simply referring to the wrestling comment, nothing more nothing less, in RE to our long term HS smack, you know b/c we've won 30 million state and national titles.

IMO, one particular reason why the Big 10 has fallen off nationally is simply the QB position. Despite our Buckeyes landing two stud athletes back to back (TP, BM) and scum doing the same with dumb and dumber this conference just doesn't land stand out QBs and IMO it has a lot to do with the Big 10 coaches, their schemes and in small part the climate that does dictate a portion of how teams are built in the conference.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:12 pm

Goddamn Swerb jinxed that game last night, right before that LSU fumble heading into the end zone. It's clearly all his fault.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:27 pm

Who's Swerb?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:37 pm

Good point on the QBs. I also blame Michigan for sucking so bad as a contributing factor for the B1G being down. If scUM was "elite" like they are supposed to be, you would have: OSU scUM as elites. Wisco and MSU as strong quality depth instead of relying on either of those schools to beat the SEC's #2 team.

Don't get me wrong, I love scUM being terrible. I hope they are 0-12 every year. The price we pay for the week to week joy of watching scUM lose is dealing with the media perception of the conference. I am OK with that trade. Unfortunately, their fans generally enter their season with a ton of optimism and talk a lot of shit from February to October. I would prefer they just spare us all, STFU about football and talk about how great their academics are all year long instead of just from November until LOI Signing day (when they win their next 4 national championships every year).
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:05 pm

Do Brady Hoke and Bo Pelini watch any football? Cause Im no coach, but the only type of offense Nebraska has stopped in the last 5 years is the one Hoke gave him. Keep the bunched sets and pro formations going Brady. Nice job.

And Pelini is a moron beyond belief, but him yanking out his young QB yesterday after two successful drives, and then not scoring again until the final minutes is a move that's par for the course for that hump.

Holy Christ the Big 10 needs some coaches. Meyer can win these games himself unless O'Brien and Fitzgerald collect some talent.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:26 pm

leadpipe wrote:Do Brady Hoke and Bo Pelini watch any football? Cause Im no coach, but the only type of offense Nebraska has stopped in the last 5 years is the one Hoke gave him. Keep the bunched sets and pro formations going Brady. Nice job.

And Pelini is a moron beyond belief, but him yanking out his young QB yesterday after two successful drives, and then not scoring again until the final minutes is a move that's par for the course for that hump.

Holy Christ the Big 10 needs some coaches. Meyer can win these games himself unless O'Brien and Fitzgerald collect some talent.


Hoke is an idiot. It is clear he has nothing to do with the offensive or defensive play calling so what does he actually do all day on gameday. How does he know what the actual outcome of the play was supposed to be if he isn't even listening to the play call?

I think they are going to retain him at least through next year, which just means scUM is bad for at least another year. They really need to put a call in to Charlie Strong's agent and see what it would take to move him North. This is a bad year to be looking for a coach as scUM will be at best the 3rd best job open (Texas and USC).
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:12 pm

Already rumors USC is going to target Kevin Sumlin.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:54 pm

Penn State is as much to blame as Michigan for the demise of the Big 10. So is Nebraska. The legacy programs have failed miserably.

Iowa no longer being occasionally good is a blow. As were Illinois and Purdue going from being cyclically competitive to dog crap also gutted the middle of the conference. Only Wisky has kept up the program. Sparty has consistently been inconsistent Sparty.

But it's the legacy programs' failure that is to blame. OSU is stuck in a cycle of competing with itself.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:59 pm

furls wrote:
FUDU wrote:I almost feel like JB directed that wrestling remark at me.

I lost count somewhere around the 19th or 20th.

BTW while we're talking B10, um what's the deal with NW, 0 conference wins...?


Well, NW still hasn't played scUM yet, so that should get them one!

Holy shit, have you ever seen an offense worse than their's? Seriously. -69 yards rushing the last two weeks. They single-handedly made MSU look like the 85 Bears. MSU has a good defense, but it is not as good as scUM made it look. Nebraska's D is horrible, and they still had -21 yards rushing yesterday.

How bad is that going to look against tOSU?


Know any links to any *good* Michigan message boards? Curious if they are wondering the same thing.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:11 am

Sure...

I have been enjoying the schadenfreude all day:

http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard

http://michigan.247sports.com/Board/Mic ... orum-59424
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:29 am

furls wrote:Sure...

I have been enjoying the schadenfreude all day:

http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard

http://michigan.247sports.com/Board/Mic ... orum-59424


Thanks.

There really is no more pathetic "insult" than calling the Buckeyes "Ohio".

Tee hee! We called them Ohio!

When Hoke broke that out last season, I knew he was nothing but a fat retard.

PS - Most of the takes I've read have been pretty realistic, props to them.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:45 am

Yeah, reality can hit like a ton of bricks. For some reason they thought Gardner was going to be the next Kapernick going into the season. They also thought they were going to compete for the B1G title even after a bloated 8-5 record. They really are bad enough to almost lose to UConn and Akron, that was not a bad day... that is who they are. I still can't believe that there are some that think they can solve all their problems by firing the OL coach and OC.

I hate scUM, I think my avatar (that I have been using here for about 5 years makes that pretty clear), and I try to temper my opinions with that in mind. That said, they are a slow, fat, out of shape soft, sorry excuse for a team. Look at their marquee recruiting event, BBQ at the Big House and compare that to Meyer's marquee event, Friday Night Lights.

Meyer's event is all about competitive excellence, it is a night camp where the best face off against the best in a camp in the 'Shoe that is open to the public and draws 5-10K spectators. Hoke's event is a bbq where recruits and their families circle jerk and talk about the family environment at scUM. One is about comfort, the other is about competition. What is interesting is that Meyer's approach is going to be much more attractive to the players he wants... competitors. Hoke's is going to be much more attractive to players seeking comfort. I think it is interesting as an indication of the relative cultures of the schools. Which do you think is more conducive to winning?

The only way to fix that mess up there is with a Stalinesque purge of the staff. The culture is rotten and stale. I don't even know how many of the players you could salvage from the culture. If you replace Hoke and start implementing a Meyer-like environment a lot of "comfortable" players are going to leave.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:59 am

I'm sure this is painfully obvious, but I think it's as easy as "which program will best prepare me for the NFL"?

That family-shit will work on some recruits, but your top, 5-star recruits, they want to be at big programs that play lots of prime time games and compete for national championships because they want as much exposure as they can get to elevate their draft stock.

OSU, like Michigan, is a Top 20 elite program, but Urban Meyer is a huge recruiting draw and, honestly, I think Hoke hurts the school's image.

Having 2 such boner coaching hires in a row at a supposedly elite program is what turns heated rivalries into railroads. On one hand, I enjoy Michigan's suffering and reduction to Notre Dame status. On the other, I've never known until recently a time where I disregarded Michigan as a serious opponent, and it feels weird.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:22 am

Those hires were WHIFFS. Rich Rod made sense from an X and O standpoint, he was a hot commodity, but no one thought to check to see if he was a cultural fit with the university. I'll tell you what, they would love to have him back now.

Hoke was so grossly unqualified for that position. I am not going to regurgitate his bio, but it is so unimpressive that I cannot believe that their fans thought he was a slam dunk hire.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:48 am

Furls, didn't Meatchicken try the whole culture change with Dick Rod? It blew up in their face and I think they've lost their way.

Now the person Rod is had a ton to do with it given how abrasive he is and his arrogance even for a FB coach. It wasn't long at all before the "Michigan Men " we're taking public shots at him subverting anything the could have been positive to the extent it was. So like any threatened culture they ran back to what they knew that was comfortable & they deluded themselves. From a sociology standpoint this is totally understandable.

This is also why every single day Bucks fans should fall on their knees for Urbs. The lucky and freakish nexus of a change agent being culturally one of their own who also has a track record is nothing short of a bolt out of the blue.

Michigan is up a creek. Harbaugh ain't taking the paycut. They have to land Miles or they're on a long road to being a Nebraska. If they hire a young up n comer even if he's talented I think it will be an impossible lift. The culture will subvert him during the inevitable early struggles and he'll start out so far behind Myer he'll never catch up.

It's Les or ingrained mediocrity.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:49 am

furls wrote:
I think they are going to retain him at least through next year, which just means scUM is bad for at least another year. They really need to put a call in to Charlie Strong's agent and see what it would take to move him North. This is a bad year to be looking for a coach as scUM will be at best the 3rd best job open (Texas and USC).


After that loss to Vandy, I think Muschamp is gone too. I wouldn't be surprised if the UF AD was on the phone to Charlie Strong immediately following the game.

I thought Muschamp would get an extra year, but if he loses out to USCe and FSU, no way they can keep him with a sub 500 record in the 3rd year.

UF would be another big opening to compete with.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:04 am

I think reality is its Texas & everyone else.

Even SC has a funky situation in some ways.

I wonder if Saban would really make the jump?

I still think Riles ends up in Austin.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby gnati » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:09 am

jb wrote:
I still think Riles ends up in Austin.


the question is, can he lure Magic, Worthy and Kareem to walk through that door with him?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:33 am

gnati wrote:
jb wrote:
I still think Riles ends up in Austin.


the question is, can he lure Magic, Worthy and Kareem to walk through that door with him?



Damn mobile phone keys!

And wish you would post. Basterd. :)
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:31 am

jb wrote:Furls, didn't Meatchicken try the whole culture change with Dick Rod? It blew up in their face and I think they've lost their way.

Now the person Rod is had a ton to do with it given how abrasive he is and his arrogance even for a FB coach. It wasn't long at all before the "Michigan Men " we're taking public shots at him subverting anything the could have been positive to the extent it was. So like any threatened culture they ran back to what they knew that was comfortable & they deluded themselves. From a sociology standpoint this is totally understandable.

This is also why every single day Bucks fans should fall on their knees for Urbs. The lucky and freakish nexus of a change agent being culturally one of their own who also has a track record is nothing short of a bolt out of the blue.

Michigan is up a creek. Harbaugh ain't taking the paycut. They have to land Miles or they're on a long road to being a Nebraska. If they hire a young up n comer even if he's talented I think it will be an impossible lift. The culture will subvert him during the inevitable early struggles and he'll start out so far behind Myer he'll never catch up.

It's Les or ingrained mediocrity.


I agree with every portion of that take. The only thing I will add is that there are some pretty good guys out there at the mid level that could well at scUM if their alumni could meet these guys halfway from a culture standpoint. They aren't "Michigan Men," but seriously, it has been a long time since scUM has had a culture that was worth preserving. Michigan has not enjoyed anything that resembles OSU's on the field success under Tressel since the early/mid 70s. They have been an 8-4/9-3 team for a long time, and that really is the "culture of excellence" that they are trying to preserve up there with their "Michigan-Men."

Ohio State on the other hand has had double digit wins every year since 2002 with the exception of 2004 and 2011 (the "Fickell Failure"). They need some excellence from the outside, and they are much closer to ND than Nebraska. They are well on their way to being one of those programs that used to be good and they are only "elite" because they keep telling themselves they are.

They could do well backing the Brinks truck up and going after Charlie Strong or Kevin Sumlin (I think Sumlin will be almost impossible to get, but you have to try). They could also take a shot at Art Briles (Baylor). There are some pretty good coaches out there, they have to just depart from this "Michigan Man" thing and get a guy that can coach, will bring in great assistants and develop talent. It will be pricey, but slipping any further will also be costly.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:35 am

I don't think Saban leaves 'Bama. I think all this posturing is just Nick getting a pay raise. Texas offers 0 advantage over 'Bama except maybe easier recruiting in Texas. Saban is doing just fine in recruiting and has a booster/AD base that will cannonize him. They support everything he does, any other job would be a step down even though technically it may be a step up.

There are a lot of very good openings this year.... UF is another one. To me it is:

1. UT

2. USC







3. UF

4. UM

scUM is going to have to pay some money to get a great guy this year or wait until next year. Narduzzi is another guy that might be worth a flyer, the risk there is the question of whether those great defenses at MSU are on Narduzzi or Dantonio or the synergy between the two. Dantonio was a great DC in his own right.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby googleeph2 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:57 pm

This thread is way more interesting than its title, which by now even I can answer depending on what happens nationally.

Someone sure needs to be talking to the Glenville boys about the 'uncertainty' at Alabama.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:11 pm

googleeph2 wrote:This thread is way more interesting than its title, which by now even I can answer depending on what happens nationally.

Someone sure needs to be talking to the Glenville boys about the 'uncertainty' at Alabama.


Meyer was at Glenville Friday, for whatever that's worth.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby googleeph2 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:01 pm

Meyer has called the other Big 10 schools to task over their football recruiting. Have they grown lax, or has the intensity picked up, passing much of the Big 10 by? I loved Tressel, but he wasn't 'cutting edge' at much of anything, was he? He seemed to recruit well. His FL recruiting wasn;t anything unique, right?

Has the NCAA's limiting scholarships for all football programs finally caught up to the Big 10?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:10 pm

furls wrote:
jb wrote:Furls, didn't Meatchicken try the whole culture change with Dick Rod? It blew up in their face and I think they've lost their way.

Now the person Rod is had a ton to do with it given how abrasive he is and his arrogance even for a FB coach. It wasn't long at all before the "Michigan Men " we're taking public shots at him subverting anything the could have been positive to the extent it was. So like any threatened culture they ran back to what they knew that was comfortable & they deluded themselves. From a sociology standpoint this is totally understandable.

This is also why every single day Bucks fans should fall on their knees for Urbs. The lucky and freakish nexus of a change agent being culturally one of their own who also has a track record is nothing short of a bolt out of the blue.

Michigan is up a creek. Harbaugh ain't taking the paycut. They have to land Miles or they're on a long road to being a Nebraska. If they hire a young up n comer even if he's talented I think it will be an impossible lift. The culture will subvert him during the inevitable early struggles and he'll start out so far behind Myer he'll never catch up.

It's Les or ingrained mediocrity.


I agree with every portion of that take. The only thing I will add is that there are some pretty good guys out there at the mid level that could well at scUM if their alumni could meet these guys halfway from a culture standpoint. They aren't "Michigan Men," but seriously, it has been a long time since scUM has had a culture that was worth preserving. Michigan has not enjoyed anything that resembles OSU's on the field success under Tressel since the early/mid 70s. They have been an 8-4/9-3 team for a long time, and that really is the "culture of excellence" that they are trying to preserve up there with their "Michigan-Men."

Ohio State on the other hand has had double digit wins every year since 2002 with the exception of 2004 and 2011 (the "Fickell Failure"). They need some excellence from the outside, and they are much closer to ND than Nebraska. They are well on their way to being one of those programs that used to be good and they are only "elite" because they keep telling themselves they are.

They could do well backing the Brinks truck up and going after Charlie Strong or Kevin Sumlin (I think Sumlin will be almost impossible to get, but you have to try). They could also take a shot at Art Briles (Baylor). There are some pretty good coaches out there, they have to just depart from this "Michigan Man" thing and get a guy that can coach, will bring in great assistants and develop talent. It will be pricey, but slipping any further will also be costly.


You are spot on. and they have the ND expectation syndrome exacerbated by the whole Michigan Man obsession.

Clearly they need change. Will they and would they give new guy a fair shot before Rick Leach is dissing him between bong hits?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:40 pm

googleeph2 wrote:Meyer has called the other Big 10 schools to task over their football recruiting. Have they grown lax, or has the intensity picked up, passing much of the Big 10 by? I loved Tressel, but he wasn't 'cutting edge' at much of anything, was he? He seemed to recruit well. His FL recruiting wasn;t anything unique, right?

Has the NCAA's limiting scholarships for all football programs finally caught up to the Big 10?


The Glenville kids are Ohio State locks at this point. It is one of the worst kept secrets in recruiting right now. FWIW, Erick Smith is REALLY coming on right now. You could actually debate which is the better prospect (Smith or Lattimore). IMO it is Lattimore.

As for the rest of the B1G recruiting.... it is a joke right now. It is OSU, scUM then everyone else. Problem is that scUM can't develop talent now. It is year 3 of Hoke, and I have it on good report from a scUM source (pretty well connected guy) that he will be retained for 2014 and Al Borges is likely to resign (be fired). I actually have a pretty decent connection for scUM inside info, she is a pretty important Alumnus and sits in the fancy boxes with the fancy people a couple of games per year.

The B1G needs to start flexing its "financial muscle" generated by its TV contracts and spend some money on coaches. Conservative estimates say that once the B1G television contract is renegotiated B1G teams will earn about 10-15MM per year in TV revenue more than even their SEC counterparts. They need to dump this money into hiring the Charlie Strong's, Les Miles, Kevin Sumlin, Art Briles, etc. of the world. Coaching is CRITICAL in NCAAF. It is huge. I thought Hoke was a questionable hire 3 years ago... now I am pissed at myself for just thinking it was questionable. THe guy is a career .500 coach at mid majors and has never done anything that has made it seem like he was a good hire at scUM. Listen to him talk, he is a dufus.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:58 pm

scum would be better of with DickRod right now, I mean they run a scheme that is more Dickish than Hokey anyway. IMO DickRod seem indifferent to the OSU rivalry for one, and that had to play some part in his quick departure.

I agree with furls, I think scum is a step ahead in returning to glory if DickRod was HMFIC.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby googleeph2 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:59 pm

I saw Ted Ginn Sr. on a recent feature on TV, I think, where he came off as quite happy/proud to have Alabama scouting his kids. I realize some of that is for the sake of courting exposure.

How does the current Glenville/Buckeye pipeline compare to when Jim Tressel was the HC circa Ginn Jr.?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:23 pm

It is still the elite collection of talent that would otherwise be squandered in the Cleveland Senate League if not for Charter Schools and No Child Left Behind. Basically the best kids in Cleveland Public Schools go to Glenville. I love Ginn Sr. What he has done there for those kids is absolutely remarkable. He doesn't have to do what he does, he does it to influence the lives of young, disadvantaged kids. Not all of them have faired well, but he has given at least a few kids a better shot than they would've had otherwise. He is a tireless promoter for his kids, and as a matter of procedure 'Ville kids commit very late to keep recruiters coming to campus where they may happen into other kids. For instance, FSU was in town last year scouting a player, I forget who, and they ran into Chris Worley in the halls. They were so blown away by Worley's build they asked for his tape and offered the next day. Worley, of course is at OSU, but the point remains, keep the kids uncommitted, keep 'Bama, FSU and scUM (among others coming) so they can see your other kids too.

Lattimore is an elite WR or CB. Smith is an elite safety prospect or a very good WR prospect. Marcelys Jones was a camp MVP this year at a significant Midwestern camp. Pretty solid accomplishment for an interior OL. Jones is an absolute monster and I think he will be at least a 2 year starter at guard.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:33 pm

Ginn Sr does sound like an extraordinary individual, but he's not much a coach from what I keep hearing. With the talent he's had for the better part of a decade he should have won some state titles by now, yes plural.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby furls » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:04 pm

He certainly leads OH in DIV I scholarships awarded. Glenville reminds me of those great Cleveland Heights and Euclid BBall teams that used to dominate the regular season was in HS. Then when the state tournament began they always bowed out early to some suburban, well coached hoops team that sent exactly 0 kids to play college ball.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:38 pm

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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:35 pm

googleeph2 wrote:I saw Ted Ginn Sr. on a recent feature on TV, I think, where he came off as quite happy/proud to have Alabama scouting his kids. I realize some of that is for the sake of courting exposure.



First and foremost, Ginn is about opportunity for his kids. The bama exposure just gets more and more cololege reps to Glenville and he can also filter non-athletic attention to Ginn Academy.

For years since the demise of the old 60's Senate CPS HS football would lose by embarrassing scores and it was humiliating for the few kids that cared enough to play. Ted Ginn changed tha. Now you also have John Hay as a playoff team. Its so good for Cleveland.

None of these guys is as pure as the driven snow, except for St Chico of course. He had to go in and beat St Ed's at it's own game on the east side. Glenville essentially reduced former parochial state powers Joes and Bennies to also rans, as did lake catholic. But on balance Ted Ginn has made a huge impact on the lives of hundreds of young men. He should have a statue built and it'd be great to see a first class stadium for CPS to share. He's also had some good guys help him that are lessor known like Matt Chinchar who does most of the on-field work.

Hard to find people with much bad to say about Ted Ginn.

Here's hoping the ville can bring home state for him.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:08 pm

LOL, you can't BS a BSer huh JB.

Ignatius wrote the book on bringing in "football players" within the last 25 years. It's not even a well kept secret anymore. I know what grades Ignatius used to hold as a standard and I know what grades some of their newly found playas had when their program was at critical mass. They should just call the school Ignatius moving forward, you know drop the Saint.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:11 pm

BTW JB Glenville doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell this year.
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:40 pm

FUDU wrote:BTW JB Glenville doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell this year.



In D 2?

Who they got? Assillon and Winton Woods?

Do you know what the ville is gonna do if they run into a Madison?
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Re: Does an undefeated OSU team make the NCG?

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:41 pm

FUDU wrote:LOL, you can't BS a BSer huh JB.

Ignatius wrote the book on bringing in "football players" within the last 25 years. It's not even a well kept secret anymore. I know what grades Ignatius used to hold as a standard and I know what grades some of their newly found playas had when their program was at critical mass. They should just call the school Ignatius moving forward, you know drop the Saint.


They tested well.

hey, I was a legacy. Do you know what MY grades were? LOL.
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