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Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:54 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:Paul: "And John Collins will be your team pres."

Randy: "Alrighty."

Rog: "And Banner will be your team pres."

Jimmuh: "Alrighty."


So Collins being some marketing / MBA flunkie and Banner being Lurie's right-hand / hatchet man has no bearing on this discussion?


No, because the owner just took the guy the NFL told him to take, sight unseen.

No mad props to Jimmy that he was luckier than Randy. Like congratulating someone sitting at a slot machine that just won $20 on a "well-pulled handle".
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby rbm0183 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:11 pm

7-9 or 8-8 seems like a very realistic probability, with the caveat already mentioned multiple times: if Campbell stays healthy. But regardless, it makes me very happy that this team has finally beaten Joe frickin' Flacco. And the fact that Bess served up this little beauty gives a nice little keepsake to remember it by, too.

Image
---"It was great training being there. They do it with character and intelligence. They run that organization the right way. They build through the draft. They're patient. It's just the right way to do it. It was a tremendous opportunity to be with them." Jimmy Haslam on why he'd model the Browns after the Steelers, 10/16/12
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:17 pm

rbm0183 wrote:7-9 or 8-8 seems like a very realistic probability, with the caveat already mentioned multiple times: if Campbell stays healthy. But regardless, it makes me very happy that this team has finally beaten Joe frickin' Flacco. And the fact that Bess served up this little beauty gives a nice little keepsake to remember it by, too.

Image


7 - 9 at WORST at this point.

The tough part of the schedule is past. 3 tough games left, 3 cake games, and a toss up.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:05 pm

HoodooMan wrote:Paul: "And John Collins will be your team pres."

Randy: "Alrighty."

Rog: "And Banner will be your team pres."

Jimmuh: "Alrighty."


Sounds like a corollary to "The Bob LaMonte Conspiracy Theory"
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:22 pm

jb wrote:You don't go from abject hopeless rudderless suck to the 85 Bears overnight, but there is a path to get there.

For some y'all to miss out on understanding the path and enjoying the journey is a damn shame for y'all.


What is there to understand? Seriously, not picking a fight. The only path I see is pretty much the only one that exists.

(competent management) + (competent coaching) + (average to above average talent) + ( barely marginal QB play) = meh.

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy watching real football. Yesterday's game was actually fun. But just remember what Morpheus said to Neo - sooner or later you're going to realize just as I did that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:31 pm

Triple-S wrote:Said it before, this team right now is like getting drunk with your friends.

You know when you wake up in the morning, you're going to regret it, but in the short term? Give me another Labatt Blue please, and let me put some bucks in the jukebox so I can sing along to "Wonderwall" while intoxicated. Hey are we going to Sheetz later?

In the back of mind I keep thinking, "Damn..we're playing ourselves out of drafting a good QB this year, Tampa/Jax is going to c-block us from that", but then on other hand "tired of sucking...This team needs to start winning damnit. I don't care anymore..let's get try to get that playoff spot"


You get drunk on Labatt Blue?
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:43 pm

That's the frustrating part.

I imagine management when building this team wasn't thinking they'd be 4-5 at the break. Banner was playing the role of Rachel Phelps, Lombardi the role of "Charlie", and Chud as Lou Brown. I imagine the plan was to get a franchise QB next year, and then work for the playoffs then.

We're past the point of no return though. There's no way in hell we can out suck Jacksonville and Tampa at this point. The Jags could very well go "defeated". "tanking" at this point would damage the culture that's been built over this season as well.

There's nothing we can really do at this point, except enjoy the ride. We're not getting one of the top prospects, that's out of the question barring some freak of nature trade.

My advice is to ride with Hoyer/Campbell, and draft a Russell Wilson/EJ Manuel/Colin Kaepernick/Geno Smith type in the late 1st to 4th rounds. Some type of guy that'll be overlooked because he's "short" or something of that nature.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:48 pm

mattvan1 wrote:You get drunk on Labatt Blue?


I have no idea why, but I did once.
Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.


Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:57 pm

Triple-S wrote:That's the frustrating part.

I imagine management when building this team wasn't thinking they'd be 4-5 at the break. Banner was playing the role of Rachel Phelps, Lombardi the role of "Charlie", and Chud as Lou Brown. I imagine the plan was to get a franchise QB next year, and then work for the playoffs then.

We're past the point of no return though. There's no way in hell we can out suck Jacksonville and Tampa at this point. The Jags could very well go "defeated". "tanking" at this point would damage the culture that's been built over this season as well.

There's nothing we can really do at this point, except enjoy the ride. We're not getting one of the top prospects, that's out of the question barring some freak of nature trade.

My advice is to ride with Hoyer/Campbell, and draft a Russell Wilson/EJ Manuel/Colin Kaepernick/Geno Smith type in the late 1st to 4th rounds. Some type of guy that'll be overlooked because he's "short" or something of that nature.


Lombardi is more like Otis to Lex Luthor.

PS - Why the fuck you put Geno Smith on that list of competent QB's?
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:20 am

mattvan1 wrote:
jb wrote:You don't go from abject hopeless rudderless suck to the 85 Bears overnight, but there is a path to get there.

For some y'all to miss out on understanding the path and enjoying the journey is a damn shame for y'all.


What is there to understand? Seriously, not picking a fight. The only path I see is pretty much the only one that exists.

(competent management) + (competent coaching) + (average to above average talent) + ( barely marginal QB play) = meh.

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy watching real football. Yesterday's game was actually fun. But just remember what Morpheus said to Neo - sooner or later you're going to realize just as I did that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path



Did you really just drop a Matrix take on me?

My disillusion is strong.

If you don't want to believe your Lyin eyes think about this.

Last time a Browns D was in the top 10 in the 2nd half of the season was?

Last time we beat the division leaders & 2nd place team was?

Last time we were in the top half of the division 9 games in was?

Last time the D led the NFL in yards per play was?

You can call JCs QB play meh. Well, the Rats were giving up 16 pts a game the last several games leading in. JC put TDs on the board with the likes of Bess & Little. SOMEONE has to get the credit. It's either them or him. They won with RBs that should be working at Lowes. They essentially ran out the last 6 minutes to close out. SOMEONE is doing SOMETHING more than meh. Of anyone thinks a rook is playing better at that level not named Teddy or Marcus they spliefted.

It's happening right before our eyes right now. But ehrone be all harrumph grumble grumble.

This is now a bona fide NFL team. After a half decade of 4-12 s and unwatchable football it is what it is.

Bus load of cap room, 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. Young players stepping up. Hard caught division wins. A D that was strong, exposed, and adjusted back to strong.

The journey is well underway.

You can be Ferris or Cam but don't look now but we're the sausage kings of Chicago and all logical, realistic signs point to it getting better.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:39 am

JB I'm shocked at how far you are from realizing just how bad we we've been in the past 5-13 years. Everything you are talking about just proves how fine a line there is in the NFL between non-competitive and meh/competitive, and the most significant way to impact that fine line is the QB.

So we go 8-8, BFD, that isn't the goal. Is it better than 3-13/5-11, well duh. What matters most is the play on the field for now, then the record. They are playing better overall this year, we all know where the hole is and what COULD be if that hole didn't exist. The record matters more to the players now than it does to the fans b/c of the balance of a losing culture and what a W-L record can mean to that.

There's a reason to watch right now, OK, we all agree.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby General » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:53 am

We are headed for a middle of the round pick. I am going to say it and sit back and enjoy the beatings that will come with this premise, draft AJ McCarron. Not sexy like the Oregon, Clemson, and Louisville guys or even the Texas AM disaster but IMHO he will be a solid franchise QB that will deliver the coveted ring. Add in the fact that his girlfriend and his mom are easy on the eyes and you have a recipe for success. Just one guys opinion so go ahead and smash it like an overripe melon. :hide:
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:20 am

FUDU wrote:JB I'm shocked at how far you are from realizing just how bad we we've been in the past 5-13 years. Everything you are talking about just proves how fine a line there is in the NFL between non-competitive and meh/competitive, and the most significant way to impact that fine line is the QB.

So we go 8-8, BFD, that isn't the goal. Is it better than 3-13/5-11, well duh. What matters most is the play on the field for now, then the record. They are playing better overall this year, we all know where the hole is and what COULD be if that hole didn't exist. The record matters more to the players now than it does to the fans b/c of the balance of a losing culture and what a W-L record can mean to that.

There's a reason to watch right now, OK, we all agree.



FUDU there's no fine line between Jville & SF. There's I80 Jersey barriers.

In a draft that falls right? amen get me a franchise QB. But winning organizations don't get desperate & reach.

You can't force what ain't there. Even u know this or you'd be stalking Diane Lane.

I've learned my lesson from the Weeden reach.

This team is making huge strides. It ain't there yet 8-8 is not the goal. To get to the Gleam you draft value and build a great team. You don't reach.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:47 am

jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:JB I'm shocked at how far you are from realizing just how bad we we've been in the past 5-13 years. Everything you are talking about just proves how fine a line there is in the NFL between non-competitive and meh/competitive, and the most significant way to impact that fine line is the QB.

So we go 8-8, BFD, that isn't the goal. Is it better than 3-13/5-11, well duh. What matters most is the play on the field for now, then the record. They are playing better overall this year, we all know where the hole is and what COULD be if that hole didn't exist. The record matters more to the players now than it does to the fans b/c of the balance of a losing culture and what a W-L record can mean to that.

There's a reason to watch right now, OK, we all agree.



FUDU there's no fine line between Jville & SF. There's I80 Jersey barriers.

In a draft that falls right? amen get me a franchise QB. But winning organizations don't get desperate & reach.

You can't force what ain't there. Even u know this or you'd be stalking Diane Lane.

I've learned my lesson from the Weeden reach.

This team is making huge strides. It ain't there yet 8-8 is not the goal. To get to the Gleam you draft value and build a great team. You don't reach.


Holy shitballs if you think non-competitive : meh/competitive :: Jacksonville : SF.

You're too hung up on the slang we use around here. SF isn't meh or meh/competitive. SF is arguably one of the best 3-4 teams in the league. ::doh::

The fine line exists between our 2011/2012 Browns and our 2013 Browns. The fine line exists between 2013 Browns and a 2014 Browns WC/Division winner. Very fine lines, so fine that an Ignatius QB named Hoyer might be the only difference in the here and now.

We're one big piece away from being a legit post season contender (define that as you will), if a possible franchise QB is there to be had you take him, but you don't trade all your draft resources to do it. But you don't avoid taking a QB just for the sake of being too patient and not reaching. If a guy falls to you in the 1st you jump all over him, and IMO hell take another in the 3rd, but if you need to use two picks to move up to get a legit guy you sure as hell give it serious consideration.
Last edited by FUDU on Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:50 am

FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:JB I'm shocked at how far you are from realizing just how bad we we've been in the past 5-13 years. Everything you are talking about just proves how fine a line there is in the NFL between non-competitive and meh/competitive, and the most significant way to impact that fine line is the QB.

So we go 8-8, BFD, that isn't the goal. Is it better than 3-13/5-11, well duh. What matters most is the play on the field for now, then the record. They are playing better overall this year, we all know where the hole is and what COULD be if that hole didn't exist. The record matters more to the players now than it does to the fans b/c of the balance of a losing culture and what a W-L record can mean to that.

There's a reason to watch right now, OK, we all agree.



FUDU there's no fine line between Jville & SF. There's I80 Jersey barriers.

In a draft that falls right? amen get me a franchise QB. But winning organizations don't get desperate & reach.

You can't force what ain't there. Even u know this or you'd be stalking Diane Lane.

I've learned my lesson from the Weeden reach.

This team is making huge strides. It ain't there yet 8-8 is not the goal. To get to the Gleam you draft value and build a great team. You don't reach.


Holy shitballs if you think non-competitive : meh/competitive :: Jacksonville : SF.

You're too hung up on the slang we use around here. SF isn't meh or meh/competitive. SF is arguably one of the best 3-4 teams in the league. ::doh::

We're one big piece away from being a legit post season contender (define that as you will), if a possible franchise QB is there to be had you take him, but you don't trade all your draft resources to do it. But you don't avoid taking a QB just for the sake of being too patient and not reaching. If a guy falls to you in the 1st you jump all over him, and IMO hell take another in the 3rd, but if you need to use two picks to move up to get a legit guy you sure as hell give it serious consideration.



UR so conditioned to scrappin' yo don't even realize when we are agreeing aren't you?

If I had to be with your money today I'd say it'll be McCarron in round 2.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:52 am

Hikohadon wrote:No, because the owner just took the guy the NFL told him to take, sight unseen.

No mad props to Jimmy that he was luckier than Randy. Like congratulating someone sitting at a slot machine that just won $20 on a "well-pulled handle".


And again we know this how? That it was just random amazing luck that the NFL offered Jammies a string of dumpster fires and Haslam gets the guy with real experience?

Yeah, the NFL offered Banner to Haslam. And I'm sure Haslam told them before hand he ain't taking no Collins, Mangini, or Holmgren, give him a guy who knows his stuff. You don't go into this stuff blind, not unless you're only here because dear old dad obligated you to cart his guilt-laden albatross around for a decade.

And I'm saying this as a guy who isn't that fond of Captain Cost-Plus to begin with.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:53 am

JB's right.

I know, I know. It makes me as sick as you all.

But that don't mean it ain't so.

To add to what he said and to tell you why I have more faith than others in the front office is that these guys saw the 2012 draft as bed shitting desperation and they fixed it as soon as they were able.

They also noted the DBs/LBs were weak and that the NFL these days demands pass rushing so they killed two birds with one stone in acquiring a shit load of DL/pass rushing depth. Getting after the QB like they do makes Buster Skrine look a lot better than Buster Skrine is. As opposed to last year when Skrine looked a lot worse than Skrine is.

Some folks here don't like Jimmy. I really don't give a fuck about the guy. It's the guys making the football decisions that need to be right and they have been more often than not in the last 18 months.

Competent QB play, getting to the passer and a couple building block guys. They got that. Now they need more. S, CB, ILB, RB, WR, OG, depth, depth, depth.

And don't package fucking picks for the 3rd GD QB on the board.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:00 am

jb wrote:The journey is well underway.

You can be Ferris or Cam but don't look now but we're the sausage kings of Chicago and all logical, realistic signs point to it getting better.


How's the song go? "Actin' like a dog that's been beat too much?"
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:01 am

jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:JB I'm shocked at how far you are from realizing just how bad we we've been in the past 5-13 years. Everything you are talking about just proves how fine a line there is in the NFL between non-competitive and meh/competitive, and the most significant way to impact that fine line is the QB.

So we go 8-8, BFD, that isn't the goal. Is it better than 3-13/5-11, well duh. What matters most is the play on the field for now, then the record. They are playing better overall this year, we all know where the hole is and what COULD be if that hole didn't exist. The record matters more to the players now than it does to the fans b/c of the balance of a losing culture and what a W-L record can mean to that.

There's a reason to watch right now, OK, we all agree.



FUDU there's no fine line between Jville & SF. There's I80 Jersey barriers.

In a draft that falls right? amen get me a franchise QB. But winning organizations don't get desperate & reach.

You can't force what ain't there. Even u know this or you'd be stalking Diane Lane.

I've learned my lesson from the Weeden reach.

This team is making huge strides. It ain't there yet 8-8 is not the goal. To get to the Gleam you draft value and build a great team. You don't reach.


Holy shitballs if you think non-competitive : meh/competitive :: Jacksonville : SF.

You're too hung up on the slang we use around here. SF isn't meh or meh/competitive. SF is arguably one of the best 3-4 teams in the league. ::doh::

We're one big piece away from being a legit post season contender (define that as you will), if a possible franchise QB is there to be had you take him, but you don't trade all your draft resources to do it. But you don't avoid taking a QB just for the sake of being too patient and not reaching. If a guy falls to you in the 1st you jump all over him, and IMO hell take another in the 3rd, but if you need to use two picks to move up to get a legit guy you sure as hell give it serious consideration.



UR so conditioned to scrappin' yo don't even realize when we are agreeing aren't you?

If I had to be with your money today I'd say it'll be McCarron in round 2.


No not at all. You're the one who completely misunderstood what I said by a fine line, with your Jax:SF reply.

I just think you are so beaten down that this improvement in play and record looks like the conquering of Mt. Everest to. To me it's just the natural progression that actually happens when you get even the slightest level of competence from the QB AND game planning and play calling.

Hoyer isn't the second coming for sure, but damn if, IMO, we aren't a game or maybe two better in the W-L column this year if he played every snap.

In order to lose 11 games in this league nearly year in and year out you have to really suck. It isn't that hard to win 7-8 games in this league, again, IMO.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:03 am

FUDU wrote:JB I'm shocked at how far you are from realizing just how bad we we've been in the past 5-13 years. Everything you are talking about just proves how fine a line there is in the NFL between non-competitive and meh/competitive, and the most significant way to impact that fine line is the QB.

So we go 8-8, BFD, that isn't the goal. Is it better than 3-13/5-11, well duh. What matters most is the play on the field for now, then the record. They are playing better overall this year, we all know where the hole is and what COULD be if that hole didn't exist. The record matters more to the players now than it does to the fans b/c of the balance of a losing culture and what a W-L record can mean to that.

There's a reason to watch right now, OK, we all agree.


Despite what this board appears to collectively believe, this isn't the NBA. You're allowed to enjoy this.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:07 am

FTR McCarron doesn't excite me very much at all. Nothing special about him, even if he does make quick decisions, part of the reason is b/c he comes from a machine that has arguably an unprecedented process and maintenance program. He faces very little adversity even in the SEC, he has as close to everything around him as any other college QB does in any given year outside of the NFL versions of the U. Regardless of how many peeps hate these type of perspectives, but name me all those legit NFL QBs from Saban's Bama, hell name me all the offensive NFL standouts from Saban's era?
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:11 am

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:No, because the owner just took the guy the NFL told him to take, sight unseen.

No mad props to Jimmy that he was luckier than Randy. Like congratulating someone sitting at a slot machine that just won $20 on a "well-pulled handle".


1) And again we know this how? That it was just random amazing luck that the NFL offered Jammies a string of dumpster fires and Haslam gets the guy with real experience?

2) Yeah, the NFL offered Banner to Haslam. And I'm sure Haslam told them before hand he ain't taking no Collins, Mangini, or Holmgren, give him a guy who knows his stuff. You don't go into this stuff blind, not unless you're only here because dear old dad obligated you to cart his guilt-laden albatross around for a decade.

And I'm saying this as a guy who isn't that fond of Captain Cost-Plus to begin with.


1) I'm going to assume it since Jimmuh's a doosh.

2) Yeah, I'm sure Jimmuh told the NFL he ain't takin' no Collinses.

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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:11 am

I do enjoy it bow, I'm just not sitting on the edge of my seat, dialing up the post season tix hotline or pretending this is a level of football that people outside of NEO haven't seen before.

I'll be much more confident after seeing what we do in the upcoming draft and FA. For the umpteenth time it will be "the most important off-season since the return".
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:25 am

They lose 3 in a row, squeak by a poor 3-5 Ravens team at home, and suddenly the claims of growth and progress wake up for their monthly glass of water.

I ain't believing in anything I'm not forced to, and I certainly ain't mustering up a batch of giveashitt for this team until they have a QB that I have more than vague interest in.

I agree in the idea that you don't desperately reach for a QB because that can be disastrous, but I also look forward to another season of Hoyer/Campbell flaccid-nous like I look forward to watching a season of Saved By The Bell on Netflix.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:29 am

Hikohadon wrote:I ain't believing in anything I'm not forced to, and I certainly ain't mustering up a batch of giveashitt for this team until they have a QB that I have more than vague interest in.


^thinks this is the NBA.

After a nightmarish 13 years, Chud looks like he might be our Marvin Lewis.

And yes, I believe that's something worthy of excitement.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:37 am

All I know is I see a better team, a better coach and a better process by which talent is accrued. I see a plan. That plan is still affected by a lack of overall talent at some critical positions. But nothing I've seen from the talent evaluators tells me that they're as clueless as the last regime that brought you that thrilling draft night of trading a total of four picks to move up one spot for TRich and then got the shitty RB his shitty QB an hour and a half later.

This team is better and the people running it have at least some clue of what they want to do and how they want to do it.

If you want more than that then get your Patriots gear out.

None of us who see 'better' overall see 'good' overall.

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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:42 am

HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:I ain't believing in anything I'm not forced to, and I certainly ain't mustering up a batch of giveashitt for this team until they have a QB that I have more than vague interest in.


^thinks this is the NBA.

After a nightmarish 13 years, Chud looks like he might be our Marvin Lewis.

And yes, I believe that's something worthy of excitement.


God I hope not, I hope he's head & shoulders better than Marvin ".506 WP% never won a playoff game have had a bunch of knuckle heads in the locker room" Lewis.

Chud is one to be excited about without any Marvin Lewis comparisons thank you.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:47 am

FUDU wrote:God I hope not, I hope he's head & shoulders better than Marvin ".506 WP% never won a playoff game have had a bunch of knuckle heads in the locker room" Lewis.

Chud is one to be excited about without any Marvin Lewis comparisons thank you.


1. Don't discount what Marvin Lewis has meant to the Bungles. 1991 to Marvin was even worse than 1999 to Chud. From that to .500+ and relevance as a franchise is a pretty significant turnaround.

2. Don't be so literal. Sure, I hope he can take us farther than Marvin's taken Cincinnati. But if all he ends up being is the guy who came in and won right away and shook us out of our own 1999-2012 nightmare a la Marvin & The Bungles, then thank you, Chud.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:50 am

HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:I ain't believing in anything I'm not forced to, and I certainly ain't mustering up a batch of giveashitt for this team until they have a QB that I have more than vague interest in.


^thinks this is the NBA.

After a nightmarish 13 years, Chud looks like he might be our Marvin Lewis.

And yes, I believe that's something worthy of excitement.


I don't watch the NBA, so clearly I have more faith in the ability of NFL teams to actually build into winners sans super star carrying said team.

It's the Browns I have no faith in. I don't care if it is irrational etc., I refuse to invest hope in that team for the 7 zillionth time until I have viable proof that said hope won't disappear in yet another Bagley Street Crash.

I will be excited when it's mid-December and they still have a viable playoff shot. But doubt even that will engender long term excitement - the lessons of 2007/2008 are not forgotten.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:53 am

Again, sure, nobody here is arguing what we have now isn't better than what we've had for too long. But again, look how it has influenced our ability to reason, and become infatuated with the next thing that walks by and gives us the time of day.

Your ML comparison speaks more to just how bad those Bungles and our Brownies were, not to how superior the HCs are.

FTR, I like Chud for a long haul.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:55 am

peeker643 wrote:All I know is I see a better team, a better coach and a better process by which talent is accrued. I see a plan. That plan is still affected by a lack of overall talent at some critical positions. But nothing I've seen from the talent evaluators tells me that they're as clueless as the last regime that brought you that thrilling draft night of trading a total of four picks to move up one spot for TRich and then got the shitty RB his shitty QB an hour and a half later.

This team is better and the people running it have at least some clue of what they want to do and how they want to do it.

If you want more than that then get your Patriots gear out.

None of us who see 'better' overall see 'good' overall.

People who shop at Big Lots think Kohl's looks like a nice place.


Not interested in that mentality.

Jason Campbell being better than Brandon Weeden does not equal me wanting to watch Jason Campbell. I have no choice but to watch him since that's the only option, but I'm not excited about Burger King just cuz it ain't McDonald's.

When it's at least Chili's, then I'll take note.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:06 pm

FUDU wrote:Your ML comparison speaks more to just how bad those Bungles and our Brownies were...


Well, sure. But that's kind of the point. You don't take an organization that's so deeply mired in shit as the 1990s Bungles & 2000s Browns were and say, OK...

Step 1, we're going to suck really, really, really bad again in our first year.

Step 2, we're going to draft our savior at QB, and spend the next two years developing him and surrounding him with talent.

Step 3, maybe by year three or four, we'll have a winning record or something.

You have a roster full of Hikos* who've been beaten down by losing season after losing season and they've seen regime after regime try and fail at Steps 1-3 above, and they don't fucking believe you any more than the last guy. The players aren't buying into that. The fans aren't buying into that.

When you're as bad as the Bungles were and as bad as we've been, for that long, there's one way out of it. One.

Winning.

That turns heads and wakes up a beaten-down organization & city.

And, by my faith in the health of Jason Campbell's ribs, it looks like that might be exactly what's happening. 7 or 8 wins will do. Mediocrity is a long way from suck.

*-of course, the actual Hiko is so beaten down and cynical that he's not interested in this, either; but you have to hope he's the extreme exception. And really, I doubt there are any players in the locker room with his outlook.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:10 pm

They're closer to Chili's than McDonalds. And look, I'm in no danger if wanting to get my season tickets back today or even next year, but they're on the right track IMO. I will say Id like to see fewer Leon McFadden picks where guy can't find the field with a map in a team that ain't crawling with quality DBs.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:20 pm

Wow the Browns at 4 and 5, I feel so full of...what's the opposite of shame?
Pride?
No, not that far from shame.
Less shame?
Yeah...

Browns season in a nutshell.

I'm at least excited we're not complaining about how bad the play calling is, how bad (this) regimes draft picks look, etc.

The team is at least "watchable". I'm not feeling like I have to go find the remote and watching some form of auto racing to keep me pre-occupied.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:24 pm

Hikohadon wrote:They lose 3 in a row, squeak by a poor 3-5 Ravens team at home, and suddenly the claims of growth and progress wake up for their monthly glass of water.

I ain't believing in anything I'm not forced to, and I certainly ain't mustering up a batch of giveashitt for this team until they have a QB that I have more than vague interest in.

I agree in the idea that you don't desperately reach for a QB because that can be disastrous, but I also look forward to another season of Hoyer/Campbell flaccid-nous like I look forward to watching a season of Saved By The Bell on Netflix.



That's one hell of an analysis for a guy who admits he hasn't watched much of the last 2 games. :dingle:

You did see JC;s QB rating? If that's flaccid, I'd hate to see your expectations of a hard on.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby bac5665 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:27 pm

If Hoyer ends the season as our starting QB next year, then the year will have been a waste (unless we're somehow in the in playoffs, but that seems pretty damn unlikely.)

Hoyer can start next year while our rookie gets ready. But our rookie needs to be starting next year, at some point.

But I don't get how you can not be excited about beating the Ravens for the first time in far too long. That's just a nice, cathartic, win.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:31 pm

bac5665 wrote:But I don't get how you can not be excited about beating the Ravens for the first time in far too long. That's just a nice, cathartic, win.


We've never beaten the Steelers, Ravens, and Bengals in the same season.

It'd take a disaster close-out to the season to keep that from happening in Chud's first year.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:32 pm

FUDU wrote:FTR McCarron doesn't excite me very much at all. Nothing special about him, even if he does make quick decisions, part of the reason is b/c he comes from a machine that has arguably an unprecedented process and maintenance program. He faces very little adversity even in the SEC, he has as close to everything around him as any other college QB does in any given year outside of the NFL versions of the U. Regardless of how many peeps hate these type of perspectives, but name me all those legit NFL QBs from Saban's Bama, hell name me all the offensive NFL standouts from Saban's era?



OK. I can buy into that. I tend to feel the same way. random Bama QBis all Jay barket to me anyway.

So if a McCarron is meh, why bother drafting him at all? Consensus says he's at about a 2nd round grade.

If there is a franchise QB, take him. But I'm seeing 2 in this draft assuming Hundley stays in school and we ain't getting Teddy or Marcus.

McCarron is arguably the better among the various JAGs left unless you think Mettenberger, Carr, Murray or Taj are up to the task of being franchise QBs. Personally I see them as projects at best and each has his share of potentially fatal flaws. They are all Weedenesque prospects. They have plusses but they have red flags.

Ergo, you don't draft a QB and devalue the pick. For the pick of a JAG QB that will likey be no better than JC or Hoyer for a couple seasons you can probably draft the best RB or ILB in the draft, a decade long starter at OG or S, or a starting quality CB.

Yes the QB is the queen on the NFL chess board. No one can legitimately argue otherwise. But you can't create a franchise QB out of fairy dust.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:34 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
FUDU wrote:Your ML comparison speaks more to just how bad those Bungles and our Brownies were...


Well, sure. But that's kind of the point. You don't take an organization that's so deeply mired in shit as the 1990s Bungles & 2000s Browns were and say, OK...

Step 1, we're going to suck really, really, really bad again in our first year.

Step 2, we're going to draft our savior at QB, and spend the next two years developing him and surrounding him with talent.

Step 3, maybe by year three or four, we'll have a winning record or something.

You have a roster full of Hikos* who've been beaten down by losing season after losing season and they've seen regime after regime try and fail at Steps 1-3 above, and they don't fucking believe you any more than the last guy. The players aren't buying into that. The fans aren't buying into that.

When you're as bad as the Bungles were and as bad as we've been, for that long, there's one way out of it. One.

Winning.

That turns heads and wakes up a beaten-down organization & city.

And, by my faith in the health of Jason Campbell's ribs, it looks like that might be exactly what's happening. 7 or 8 wins will do. Mediocrity is a long way from suck.

*-of course, the actual Hiko is so beaten down and cynical that he's not interested in this, either; but you have to hope he's the extreme exception. And really, I doubt there are any players in the locker room with his outlook.



Huzzah.

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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:37 pm

Hikohadon wrote: - the lessons of 2007/2008 are not forgotten.


I think this is a great point.

Common factors to flash in the pan season?

Easy Schedule

Differences?

07 we caught damn near every break imaginable except that bad OOB call on Souljah.

07 was a quick team band aided on vets after Savage got fired for the first time. It was 3 seasons into Opie.

This is a very young team where it matters. There are many young, developed players stepping up. The FA's are in prime.

This sucka is built to last.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:39 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
Step 1, we're going to suck really, really, really bad again in our first year.

Step 2, we're going to draft our savior at QB, and spend the next two years developing him and surrounding him with talent.

Step 3, maybe by year three or four, we'll have a winning record or something.



But but but that's how Indy got Perfect Peyton and he's so dreamy!
- FUDU
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:39 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
jb wrote:The journey is well underway.

You can be Ferris or Cam but don't look now but we're the sausage kings of Chicago and all logical, realistic signs point to it getting better.


How's the song go? "Actin' like a dog that's been beat too much?"


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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:40 pm

Well again, as this has been hashed out in the past around here, define winning. Winning seems to be redefined for convenience of argument more than our weather changes.

Winning = winning it all?
Winning = winning more than you lose, as in WP%?
Winning = winning more than you have in the past?
Winning = Charlie Sheen?

I get your point completely bow, but how do you think players really define winning? As a fan I certainly hope they've bought into this season's success (when we have a semblance of competence behind center) and I believe their body language has given us clues to as to when they do and when they don't this year.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:44 pm

HoodooMan wrote:*-of course, the actual Hiko is so beaten down and cynical that he's not interested in this, either; but you have to hope he's the extreme exception. And really, I doubt there are any players in the locker room with his outlook.


Of course not - they still have hope because they might get traded or leave in Free Agency. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:45 pm

bac5665 wrote:But I don't get how you can not be excited about beating the Ravens for the first time in far too long. That's just a nice, cathartic, win.


I disagree. I'm not wrapped up in the fact it was the ratbirds.

It was a physical game. The Browns outplayed B-more far more than the score indicated and gave up a cheapie TD courtesy of a blown assignment at the end of the half.

A good QB lifted B-more and kept them in the game. They had nothing on us.

And the 4th quarter end..... when have you seen a Zombie Browns team nut up and essentially run out the clock (ignoring Chud not going for it on 4th and goal with 17 seconds at the 3 being the wrong decision)

That was a tough division game and with a banged up undermanned offense we'll surly add playmakers to this off season we came away with a W. Sorry but after the bengals win it matters.

I said it last week and was scoffed at by the hatas. The 2nd half of the KC game was the season turnaround.

I see this season much more thorugh the lens of the second half of 84 than 07.
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:45 pm

FUDU wrote:Well again, as this has been hashed out in the past around here, define winning. Winning seems to be redefined for convenience of argument more than our weather changes.

Winning = winning it all?
Winning = winning more than you lose, as in WP%?
Winning = winning more than you have in the past?
Winning = Charlie Sheen?

I get your point completely bow, but how do you think players really define winning? As a fan I certainly hope they've bought into this season's success (when we have a semblance of competence behind center) and I believe their body language has given us clues to as to when they do and when they don't this year.


"Winning. Like it's better than losing.'
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:47 pm

jb wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
Step 1, we're going to suck really, really, really bad again in our first year.

Step 2, we're going to draft our savior at QB, and spend the next two years developing him and surrounding him with talent.

Step 3, maybe by year three or four, we'll have a winning record or something.



But but but that's how Indy got Perfect Peyton and he's so dreamy!
- FUDU


3 or 4 years, shiiiiiiit.

Don't piss down my back and tell me it's Great Lakes XMas Ale.

Get real, 1 year worst to first, 10 game turnaround, harrumph!

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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:48 pm

FUDU wrote:I get your point completely bow, but how do you think players really define winning? As a fan I certainly hope they've bought into this season's success (when we have a semblance of competence behind center) and I believe their body language has given us clues to as to when they do and when they don't this year.


7/8 wins is a long way from 4/5. You're a competitive football team. And I can't imagine the players don't feel the difference between that and getting their asses handed to them every week.

And RE: 2007/2008 vs. 2013/2014, to me the biggest difference is that it's Chud Year 1 vs. Romeo Year 3. It's culture change. And it isn't whoa-hey-lucked-into-some wins in what was likely the last year of your regime. Banner & Chud have time to do this the right way. Whether they succeed... Either way, we're taking important, difficult steps in the right direction, finally.
Last edited by HoodooMan on Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby jb » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:48 pm

FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
Step 1, we're going to suck really, really, really bad again in our first year.

Step 2, we're going to draft our savior at QB, and spend the next two years developing him and surrounding him with talent.

Step 3, maybe by year three or four, we'll have a winning record or something.



But but but that's how Indy got Perfect Peyton and he's so dreamy!
- FUDU


3 or 4 years, shiiiiiiit.

Don't piss down my back and tell me it's Great Lakes XMas Ale.

Get real, 1 year worst to first, 10 game turnaround, harrumph!

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm



So if you're not set up to get the next manning, what's Plan B?
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Re: Baltimore @ Cleveland - Welcome back Weeden edition

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:50 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:They lose 3 in a row, squeak by a poor 3-5 Ravens team at home, and suddenly the claims of growth and progress wake up for their monthly glass of water.

I ain't believing in anything I'm not forced to, and I certainly ain't mustering up a batch of giveashitt for this team until they have a QB that I have more than vague interest in.

I agree in the idea that you don't desperately reach for a QB because that can be disastrous, but I also look forward to another season of Hoyer/Campbell flaccid-nous like I look forward to watching a season of Saved By The Bell on Netflix.



That's one hell of an analysis for a guy who admits he hasn't watched any of the last 2 games. :dingle:


Like I need to watch the Cleveland Browns to know their pattern.

I didn't watch the last 2 episodes of A-Team either, but pretty sure Murdock was wacky and the team threw together some random trash from a garage to form a defensive arsenal that thwarted the mean bikers.

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