Text Size

College Sports Arena

YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Talk Buckeye football and hoops, Viking hoops, as well as all other discussion on college sports in here.

Moderators: peeker643, swerb, danwismar, furls

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby pod2dawg » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:04 am

I'm starting to think the NCAA just has a "thing" against tattoos.
User avatar
pod2dawg
Warrior Poet aka Thread Killer
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:34 pm
Favorite Player: Phil Gordon
Least Favorite Player: Lane Kiffin

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby pup » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:42 pm

pod2dawg wrote:I'm starting to think the NCAA just has a "thing" against tattoos.


Or holier than thou perfect saints lying to them and covering it up...
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:39 pm

pup wrote:
pod2dawg wrote:I'm starting to think the NCAA just has a "thing" against tattoos.


Or holier than thou perfect saints lying to them and covering it up...


Jim Tressel paid for his failure to report minor NCAA violations by a handful of players with his job and the loss of more than $15 million. Maybe you don't consider that severe enough sanction.

Characterizing him as "holier than thou" suggests he portrayed himself that way. Please give me one example of this, if you can. His reputation as a good man was earned with deeds over decades...not by words. Also, find me ONE statement by ANY former player saying that this image and reputation of his was in any way phony.

As for "perfect saint", again...your words...sarcastic though they are...He never tried to portray himself as either perfect...or a saint. If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.
"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Dan's OSU Links - http://bit.ly/1o9DwFo
danwismar
 
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:40 pm

The thing that sucks is Miami was smarter about their self punishing than we were, they spanked themselves when it didn't matter. The punishment Gene Smith administered most likely cost us a NC last season.
Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect.
"I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

2011 TCF Stratomatic Champ
User avatar
FUDU
 
Posts: 13358
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:02 am
Favorite Player: Me
Least Favorite Player: You

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby furls » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:50 pm

FUDU wrote:The thing that sucks is Miami was smarter about their self punishing than we were, they spanked themselves when it didn't matter. The punishment Gene Smith administered most likely cost us a NC last season.


What you say may or may not be true, but Miami certainly benefited from the fucked up NCAA investigation. If the NCAA had dropped the hammer, you can rest assured that the U would've started suing, and that would've gone very badly for the NCAA after all the scandals associated with their investigation. The NCAA wanted to make this go away as quickly and quietly as possible.

In the end, I really don't give a fuck. The NCAA is a ridiculous organization. Cam Newton, Johnny Football, Oregon, USC, PSU, UNC, Ohio State, 'Bama etc. There has been 0 consistency in how they have dealt with these things (except Newton and Manziel where they turned a blind eye after a 15 minute investigation). I still have to laugh at the insanity that surrounded the OSU program for a year. The fact that all the independent investigations only found tatt gate and Bobby D is remarkable.

The NCAA cannot do anything unless your HC is stupid enough to email things from his work email at a state school which is subject to FoIA requests.
Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

-Kingpin74
User avatar
furls
Buckeye Insider
 
Posts: 6445
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Chic Harley
Least Favorite Player: Desmond Howard

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby pup » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:45 am

danwismar wrote:
pup wrote:
pod2dawg wrote:I'm starting to think the NCAA just has a "thing" against tattoos.


Or holier than thou perfect saints lying to them and covering it up...


Jim Tressel paid for his failure to report minor NCAA violations by a handful of players with his job and the loss of more than $15 million. Maybe you don't consider that severe enough sanction.

Characterizing him as "holier than thou" suggests he portrayed himself that way. Please give me one example of this, if you can. His reputation as a good man was earned with deeds over decades...not by words. Also, find me ONE statement by ANY former player saying that this image and reputation of his was in any way phony.

As for "perfect saint", again...your words...sarcastic though they are...He never tried to portray himself as either perfect...or a saint. If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.



Image
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby fairvis » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:36 pm

The inconsistencies in which the NCAA attacks certain things is still amazing. Going to lunch with a celebrity is legal and not a violation. Lying about going to lunch with someone gets you suspended for 4 games.

Selling your own jersey gets you suspended for 4 games (AJ Green), trading your personal swag for tattoos gets you more. Being overpaid by $3.07 can get you suspended for 5 games (see Posey, DeVier). But Johnny Football signs 1500 items and it's OK?

Get rid of it, make it a semi-pro minor league with fringe benefits, allow the inmates to run the asylum. Because the NCAA's lost.
User avatar
fairvis
 
Posts: 901
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:21 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Favorite Player: Braxton Miller
Least Favorite Player: Joakim Noah

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:51 pm

pup wrote:
danwismar wrote:
pup wrote:
pod2dawg wrote:I'm starting to think the NCAA just has a "thing" against tattoos.


Or holier than thou perfect saints lying to them and covering it up...


Jim Tressel paid for his failure to report minor NCAA violations by a handful of players with his job and the loss of more than $15 million. Maybe you don't consider that severe enough sanction.

Characterizing him as "holier than thou" suggests he portrayed himself that way. Please give me one example of this, if you can. His reputation as a good man was earned with deeds over decades...not by words. Also, find me ONE statement by ANY former player saying that this image and reputation of his was in any way phony.

As for "perfect saint", again...your words...sarcastic though they are...He never tried to portray himself as either perfect...or a saint. If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.



Image


So, he published a book called "The Winners Manual" That he is "a winner" himself is rather obvious and irrefutable.

That he put into book form the program that he lived with, and required of his players for many years, and which was essentially his formula for helping turn boys into responsible men, is commendable...as others outside the OSU football program might benefit from it as well.

How this stands as an example of JT portraying himself as "perfect" or a "saint", or "holier than thou", escapes me. But whatever, pup. In the absence of an argument, you post a picture.

Your feelings on this are well documented here. You think that every good deed and every kindness and every example set for young men that he did in his life is rendered a joke, and he is rendered a phony and a hypocrite, because he failed to report trivial NCAA violations by a few players (a couple years before everyone started rooting for NCAA rules violators to get away with it). Anyone who has ever known the man, or played for the man would laugh at the suggestion.

Some people love it when a person who is held up as a "good" person is brought low by some incident that reveals their humanity...which is to say, their flaws and their self-interestedness...and their mistakes. It makes them feel better about themselves. I'll just chalk you up as one of them.
"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Dan's OSU Links - http://bit.ly/1o9DwFo
danwismar
 
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby pup » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:25 pm

danwismar wrote:
pup wrote:
danwismar wrote:
pup wrote:
pod2dawg wrote:I'm starting to think the NCAA just has a "thing" against tattoos.


Or holier than thou perfect saints lying to them and covering it up...


Jim Tressel paid for his failure to report minor NCAA violations by a handful of players with his job and the loss of more than $15 million. Maybe you don't consider that severe enough sanction.

Characterizing him as "holier than thou" suggests he portrayed himself that way. Please give me one example of this, if you can. His reputation as a good man was earned with deeds over decades...not by words. Also, find me ONE statement by ANY former player saying that this image and reputation of his was in any way phony.

As for "perfect saint", again...your words...sarcastic though they are...He never tried to portray himself as either perfect...or a saint. If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.



Image


So, he published a book called "The Winners Manual" That he is "a winner" himself is rather obvious and irrefutable.

That he put into book form the program that he lived with, and required of his players for many years, and which was essentially his formula for helping turn boys into responsible men, is commendable...as others outside the OSU football program might benefit from it as well.

How this stands as an example of JT portraying himself as "perfect" or a "saint", or "holier than thou", escapes me. But whatever, pup. In the absence of an argument, you post a picture.

Your feelings on this are well documented here. You think that every good deed and every kindness and every example set for young men that he did in his life is rendered a joke, and he is rendered a phony and a hypocrite, because he failed to report trivial NCAA violations by a few players (a couple years before everyone started rooting for NCAA rules violators to get away with it). Anyone who has ever known the man, or played for the man would laugh at the suggestion.

Some people love it when a person who is held up as a "good" person is brought low by some incident that reveals their humanity...which is to say, their flaws and their self-interestedness...and their mistakes. It makes them feel better about themselves. I'll just chalk you up as one of them.


I guess we won't go back into the YSU offenses.

I don't need to bring down The Vest to make myself feel any differently about myself. I am cool with exactly who and how I am.

Plenty of people do the right thing in the public eye, but are dealing crank out the back door. But hey, 10 rights make up for each wrong.

The man played everyone for a fool, with his awe shucks and good old boy routines, all while creating a laundry list of just misses.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby danwismar » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:40 pm

Right, pup. He's a con man. Hiding his evil designs behind an "aw shucks" false front.

My point was not to suggest he never did anything wrong...just that he never portrayed himself as a saint. You have presented nothing that shows he did portray himself that way..ever. The way he was perceived by the public was a result of portrayals of him by others...notably those around him, who knew him and played for him.

But what would they know?

Sorry if I got too personal before. That was out of line.
"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Dan's OSU Links - http://bit.ly/1o9DwFo
danwismar
 
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:22 am

First off, congrats to Pod for his single post!

But Buckeye Fan needs to move on.

It's over for one.

But here's the obvious difference.

Miami had a rotten booster. Asst coaches were complicit. Higher ups had to hear the rumors & look the other way. But Tressel knew, covered up, and lied about it. The HEAD COACH. It was not the infraction. It was the cover up. The Bucks were perceived as arrogant not self imposing a bowl ban & miscalculated. The program is lucky it didn't get hammered worse.

Then again, I'm the guy that thinks State Perv earned a combination death penalty & trip to nonschollie FCS for a decade to clean out the sick organizational culture and refuse to buy into this being the action/inaction of 4 men so what do what do I know?

But yeah let's focus blame on a voluntary self governance agreement these universities create themselves rather than their cheaters and liars. Sounds about right to me.
Last edited by jb on Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:24 am

FUDU wrote:The thing that sucks is Miami was smarter about their self punishing than we were, they spanked themselves when it didn't matter. The punishment Gene Smith administered most likely cost us a NC last season.



Or a 55 - 21 humiliation that crushed Myer's program build.

Pool. Pond. Either is fine.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:28 am

danwismar wrote:
pup wrote:
danwismar wrote:
pup wrote:
pod2dawg wrote:I'm starting to think the NCAA just has a "thing" against tattoos.


Or holier than thou perfect saints lying to them and covering it up...


Jim Tressel paid for his failure to report minor NCAA violations by a handful of players with his job and the loss of more than $15 million. Maybe you don't consider that severe enough sanction.

Characterizing him as "holier than thou" suggests he portrayed himself that way. Please give me one example of this, if you can. His reputation as a good man was earned with deeds over decades...not by words. Also, find me ONE statement by ANY former player saying that this image and reputation of his was in any way phony.

As for "perfect saint", again...your words...sarcastic though they are...He never tried to portray himself as either perfect...or a saint. If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.



Image


So, he published a book called "The Winners Manual" That he is "a winner" himself is rather obvious and irrefutable.

That he put into book form the program that he lived with, and required of his players for many years, and which was essentially his formula for helping turn boys into responsible men, is commendable...as others outside the OSU football program might benefit from it as well.

How this stands as an example of JT portraying himself as "perfect" or a "saint", or "holier than thou", escapes me. But whatever, pup. In the absence of an argument, you post a picture.

Your feelings on this are well documented here. You think that every good deed and every kindness and every example set for young men that he did in his life is rendered a joke, and he is rendered a phony and a hypocrite, because he failed to report trivial NCAA violations by a few players (a couple years before everyone started rooting for NCAA rules violators to get away with it). Anyone who has ever known the man, or played for the man would laugh at the suggestion.

Some people love it when a person who is held up as a "good" person is brought low by some incident that reveals their humanity...which is to say, their flaws and their self-interestedness...and their mistakes. It makes them feel better about themselves. I'll just chalk you up as one of them.



Wiz, as always you make me think.

But couldn't I replace the proper noun Tressel with Paterno and your pov is that of a Jopalogist ?

Or does the nature of the cause mitigate and change ur pov?

BTW ever see the film City Hall?
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:08 am

jb wrote:Wiz, as always you make me think.

But couldn't I replace the proper noun Tressel with Paterno and your pov is that of a Jopalogist ?

Or does the nature of the cause mitigate and change ur pov?

BTW ever see the film City Hall?


Maybe one of the differences is that what Tressel did, while indefensible, is something that most of us suspect or assume many, if not all, D1 coaches would do in similar circumstances. Do we really think Saban or Miles immediately self report and sit a few of their star players as soon as the dumbasses sign some sneakers for Call of Duty 5 and a case of Natty? Hell no. The only difference is that they aren't so stupid leaving a trail as they brush that shit aside.

But turning a blind eye to over a decade of known/suspected child abuse and sodomy? I can't believe that ANY of them would let that go on.

I guess that's all assumption influenced by a HUGE amount of homerism on my part, but that's how I feel. What Tressel did was what everyone does. What PSU did was monsterous. I don't see how you can compare the two.

And I agree with everything that Dan has written.

I'll take my deserved reprimand for being a stupid homer now.
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7748
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby pup » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:15 am

danwismar wrote:Right, pup. He's a con man. Hiding his evil designs behind an "aw shucks" false front.

My point was not to suggest he never did anything wrong...just that he never portrayed himself as a saint. You have presented nothing that shows he did portray himself that way..ever. The way he was perceived by the public was a result of portrayals of him by others...notably those around him, who knew him and played for him.

But what would they know?

Sorry if I got too personal before. That was out of line.


That line is the rub of the disagreement. Those are EXACTLY the people he was basically teaching as "do as I say, not as I do". Be honest. Be forthright. Be true to yourself and those around you. Meanwhile he is lying and covering up illegal (you can chose to place whatever level of his transgressions versus the word illegal you want) activities in multiple situations over multiple years at multiple programs. If you don't think the 2A thought back to the YSU "escape" when they punished tOSU, I think you are mistaken.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby danwismar » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:54 pm

jb wrote:Wiz, as always you make me think.

But couldn't I replace the proper noun Tressel with Paterno and your pov is that of a Jopalogist ?

Or does the nature of the cause mitigate and change ur pov?

BTW ever see the film City Hall?


Obviously, as moscratch points out, there are vast differences in both type and scale of the wrongdoing. Paterno's complicity not only worked to ignore, and obstruct justice for, the CRIMINAL activity that had happened in the past...it enabled even more abuse to go on for YEARS...a direct result of his inaction.

I have avoided even comparing the two situations from the outset, because to do so trivializes child abuse...but since we're going there, start by considering the near complete absence of "victims" in Columbus, and the long horrific list of them in Happy Valley.

All that aside...and more in response to pup...it is amazing that people make the leap from one incident IN A DECADE in which Tressel was found to have sloughed off reports of minor violations...to assume, in the absence of any evidence at all...that he was lying and cheating and covering up all along, and as such, his message to his charges was effectively "do as I say, not as I do". Cynicism on stilts.

To do this, one must not only believe in something that is not supported by evidence...but also to ignore the mountains of evidence that cuts against that belief...the word of hundreds of players and staff who revere him...the many, many good works and kindnesses and charitable acts and donations of time and money that he did...while taking pains to avoid drawing public and media attention to them.

Taking a bullet (in the form losing his dream job and the millions he would have received in it) for not only the players he chose to protect (fruitlessly, as it turned out) but also for his superiors, notably Gene Smith and Gordon Gee, was the act of a loyal, if not a completely selfless man.

It is common knowledge in OSU circles, now that some time has passed, that Gee and Smith and Archie and everybody else in the OSU athletic department knew about the situation, and Tressel acted as the good soldier and took the rap for all of them. Even if he was somehow compensated for doing so (it was rumored ???)...it wouldn't have come close to the millions he lost. (His official severance was a mid-five figure sum, IIRC)

I am not intimate with the details of the YSU situation, but as I understand it, a player taking money from a booster was the most serious of the allegations. According to pup, Tressel somehow engineered an "escape" from a situation that didn't involve the coaching staff. Whatever.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I'll reiterate my position that Tressel didn't portray himself as perfect or a saint. After this scandal broke, he was called a "hypocrite"...but mostly by people who don't understand what that widely overused and misunderstood word means.

The lessons he taught young people about the importance of an "attitude of gratitude", and all the other values he imparted to others, are no less valuable, valid and important because the man who espoused them had a lapse in judgment.

It's not like I took it easy on Tressel in the aftermath of this thing. The first article I wrote after the disastrous press conference in June of 2011 should demonstrate that. I reread it recently, and if I do say so, I think it holds up pretty well. If you don't feel up to slogging through the whole thing, just check out the first few, and the last few paragraphs...then come back here and tell me if you think I made excuses for the guy, or minimized the severity of his violations.

What I didn't do, then or now, was write him off as a fraud.

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/ohio-sta ... of-tressel
"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Dan's OSU Links - http://bit.ly/1o9DwFo
danwismar
 
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby danwismar » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:03 pm

Just went back and read what I wrote here on 6/4/11, in an article called OSU: Reaching for the Bottom. Yeah, it sounds much like what I said above....

Holding himself up? : To paraphrase various commentators in recent days on Tressel’s resignation...”it’s embarrassing, especially for a man who promotes himself as “squeaky clean”...or, describing Tressel as someone....”who holds himself up as better than other coaches”. These seem to me unfair characterizations of Tressel as the framer of his own reputation.

Reputations are not garnered in a vacuum, or on the basis of what one says about oneself. They are gained, good or bad, by what employees, colleagues, associates, competitors and other outside observers say about a person. In college football, that would include players, opposing players, fans and media as well.

So it’s fair to say that Tressel had something of a reputation for being squeaky clean, or as a guy who “did things the right way”, just as you can now say that this reputation was, at least in part, a lie, because he was dishonest and cheated in order to win. But if anyone can find any evidence that this is the way he characterized or promoted himself, I’d like to see it.

Much has been made of the fact that Tressel’s has a book called “The Winner’s Manual”, a summary of the program he has used for years with players on his teams that emphasizes balancing sports with other important priorities in life, such as family and education, and teaches other positive life values like gratitude, and putting concern for others above self...or even taking personal responsibility for your actions. In other words, a book about “doing things the right way”.

Since Tressel has now been caught doing things the wrong way, some have suggested this makes a mockery or a fraud of his program of positive life values. But if these lessons are worth teaching...and Tressel’s success with young people over two decades suggests that they are...then they are no less worth teaching now that the teacher has proven to have character flaws...like the rest of humanity.
"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Dan's OSU Links - http://bit.ly/1o9DwFo
danwismar
 
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby jb » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:35 am

Dan, I think we're approaching this on different planes.

Cutting to chase: I see nothing incongruous with Tressel being both a man who had positive core values and help out young men often with boated egos and weak life skills AND turning a blind eye, and proven worse, when it came to the ability to compete and win in a sport. His core values conveniently put blinders on. There's not a damn thing noble in his motivations to lie and cover up. This is where your position fails.

In short he's human. Neither good nor bad.

No Need to vilify or canonize. He's a man not a cartoon character.

City Hall was a good examination of this human conflict reality.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby danwismar » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:27 am

Don't disagree with a thing you say, jb, other than "your position fails"...because my position doesn't canonize him or try to minimize or excuse his failings. It just says that he never promoted HIMSELF as "perfect", saint-like, or "holier than thou". I await any evidence that he did.

We are saying the same thing. He proved himself human.

If one takes the position pup seems to be taking, no person ever can promote "positive life values", because no one is himself perfect...which to me is pure nonsense.
"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Dan's OSU Links - http://bit.ly/1o9DwFo
danwismar
 
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby danwismar » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:13 am

jb wrote:There's not a damn thing noble in his motivations to lie and cover up. This is where your position fails.


From my article "The Tainting of Tressel", linked above:

There is no way to get around the fact that Tressel has lied, both by omission and by commission, and that he signed documents that he knew to be false. He can rationalize what he did by claiming to have acted in his players’ interests, but as honest observers of his actions, we can attribute no more lofty motive to them than the one driving every major college football coach. Winning. Because if the coach’s private notion of what constitutes “the players’ best interests” can serve as an excuse for misconduct by that coach, then anything goes.
"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Dan's OSU Links - http://bit.ly/1o9DwFo
danwismar
 
Posts: 2554
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: YahooSports Publishes Miami Story

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:23 pm

danwismar wrote:Don't disagree with a thing you say, jb, other than "your position fails"...because my position doesn't canonize him or try to minimize or excuse his failings. It just says that he never promoted HIMSELF as "perfect", saint-like, or "holier than thou". I await any evidence that he did.

We are saying the same thing. He proved himself human.

If one takes the position pup seems to be taking, no person ever can promote "positive life values", because no one is himself perfect...which to me is pure nonsense.



Fair enough. I understand.

Go download City Hall. :-)
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Previous

Return to College Sports Arena

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests