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Brian Hoyer is for real"............

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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:54 pm

scrambler wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:I turn on the radio and they are comparing Hoyer to Tom Brady, then I come here and we are trading a 1st rounder for Kirk Cousins (or someone slightly worse) and throwing a 4th rounder to sweeten the deal, just in case Washington was like "I'm not sure a 1st round draft pick is going to get it done for our backup QB there Spanky, what else ya got?"

And then over there you got JB making Nena references and e0y hating Star Trek for no apparent reason.

The only thing that hasn't happened is the only thing I was sure would happen...FUDU talking up Stratego.

All in the Brian Hoyer thread that SD made which, 2 years later, mirrors almost exactly the same thread he made about Colt McCoy. Before he turned on him a week and a half later.

This place, man.


Quite frankly it's not even fare to compare HOyer to WEeden this year. Weeden has had zero opportunities this year to play with the only skilled skill position player the Browns have in Josh Gordon (although I think Cameron has also made it to that point). I'm not convinced that isn't the only difference between Hoyer and Weeden this year. Hoyer got to play with Gordon and Weeden didn't.



Huge playin with Drahnk Dude.

But in isolation, the ball comes out from Hoyer and he makes a read and decision quickly. That's the single one big thing.

Having mobility and pocket awareness, and hitting a WR in a position to get YAC is also a difference, but the ball leaving the QB's hand on time in tempo is The One Big Thing.

Don't matter if his WR is Josh Grobin or Josh Gordon.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:05 pm

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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:12 pm

motherscratcher wrote:I turn on the radio and they are comparing Hoyer to Tom Brady, then I come here and we are trading a 1st rounder for Kirk Cousins (or someone slightly worse) and throwing a 4th rounder to sweeten the deal, just in case Washington was like "I'm not sure a 1st round draft pick is going to get it done for our backup QB there Spanky, what else ya got?"

And then over there you got JB making Nena references and e0y hating Star Trek for no apparent reason.

The only thing that hasn't happened is the only thing I was sure would happen...FUDU talking up Stratego.

All in the Brian Hoyer thread that SD made which, 2 years later, mirrors almost exactly the same thread he made about Colt McCoy. Before he turned on him a week and a half later.

This place, man.


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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:06 pm

Don't matter if his WR is Josh Grobin or Josh Gordon.


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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:52 pm

scrambler wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:I turn on the radio and they are comparing Hoyer to Tom Brady, then I come here and we are trading a 1st rounder for Kirk Cousins (or someone slightly worse) and throwing a 4th rounder to sweeten the deal, just in case Washington was like "I'm not sure a 1st round draft pick is going to get it done for our backup QB there Spanky, what else ya got?"

And then over there you got JB making Nena references and e0y hating Star Trek for no apparent reason.

The only thing that hasn't happened is the only thing I was sure would happen...FUDU talking up Stratego.

All in the Brian Hoyer thread that SD made which, 2 years later, mirrors almost exactly the same thread he made about Colt McCoy. Before he turned on him a week and a half later.

This place, man.


Quite frankly it's not even fare to compare HOyer to WEeden this year. Weeden has had zero opportunities this year to play with the only skilled skill position player the Browns have in Josh Gordon (although I think Cameron has also made it to that point). I'm not convinced that isn't the only difference between Hoyer and Weeden this year. Hoyer got to play with Gordon and Weeden didn't.


Actually, it's pretty fair.

What receiver is adept at reeling in the 120mph high swing pass?

What's any receiver in the league gonna do to help Weeden understand your are allowed to rush the QB in the NFL, and that guy...the one coming right in front of your face, that guy ain't make believe.

What receiver has 10 minutes to wait for th ball to come out.

Again, as with the other QB's people felt the Browns "runied" or "didn't get a fair shake" the proof will be in the fact Weeden will never have a real job in the league again, same as Couch, Frye and all the others. Unless I'm missing someone the Browns released who turned around and became a good QB.

And I'm with Mo, I ain't giving nearly what they'll want for Kirk Cousins. For the love of Scott Mitchell.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:28 am

Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Also, Captain Kirk references are no longer oxygen worthy.

Now if you'll excuse me I have some Miley twerking Youtubes to watch.....


Heh...we know this is bullshit because you need to actually have an ass to twerk

So, you're either lying or watching her cuz you like her voice


FMB's twerk hand is strong.

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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:03 pm

scrambler wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:I turn on the radio and they are comparing Hoyer to Tom Brady, then I come here and we are trading a 1st rounder for Kirk Cousins (or someone slightly worse) and throwing a 4th rounder to sweeten the deal, just in case Washington was like "I'm not sure a 1st round draft pick is going to get it done for our backup QB there Spanky, what else ya got?"

And then over there you got JB making Nena references and e0y hating Star Trek for no apparent reason.

The only thing that hasn't happened is the only thing I was sure would happen...FUDU talking up Stratego.

All in the Brian Hoyer thread that SD made which, 2 years later, mirrors almost exactly the same thread he made about Colt McCoy. Before he turned on him a week and a half later.

This place, man.


Quite frankly it's not even fare to compare HOyer to WEeden this year. Weeden has had zero opportunities this year to play with the only skilled skill position player the Browns have in Josh Gordon (although I think Cameron has also made it to that point). I'm not convinced that isn't the only difference between Hoyer and Weeden this year. Hoyer got to play with Gordon and Weeden didn't.

Some validity to that.

But it doesn't matter. The results are what they are. And even if Weeden plays about the same as Hoyer in those 2 games, it still isn't that good and certainly not worth debating.

Ride Hoyer til he loses. Decide then which crap QB to put back out there, the results will likely be similar.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:49 am

Honest question:

When was the last time we had a QB with the in-game IQ and pocket presence of Hoyer? Have we had any since the return?
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:53 am

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Honest question:

When was the last time we had a QB with the in-game IQ and pocket presence of Hoyer? Have we had any since the return?


I don't know, I haven't seen their IQ scores nor been in their heads to know if their failure was due to mental or physical issues.

When the play calls for you to quick throw a 5 yard pass, you're gonna look decisive whether you really are or not.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:08 am

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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:13 am

Hikohadon wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Honest question:

When was the last time we had a QB with the in-game IQ and pocket presence of Hoyer? Have we had any since the return?


I don't know, I haven't seen their IQ scores nor been in their heads to know if their failure was due to mental or physical issues.

When the play calls for you to quick throw a 5 yard pass, you're gonna look decisive whether you really are or not.


IDK from what I've seen of Weedon.

I used to have an office where I'd have the receptionist put out 2 bowls of candy; Smarties and Dum-Dums. I'd let the staff have fun watching which visitors took which and who "got it". I'm evil like that.

So If I had to guess, here's who would take what:

Dum Dum's:
Couch
Dilfer (no matter what he thinks about himself)
Frye ( reallllly had to think hard here. snort.)
DA
Colt
Weedon

Smarties:
Detmer
Holcomb
Garcia
BQ


Let's play logic 101. Not all dum dums had talent but none of the smarties have except MAYBE Garcia, and ISDK what really happened in 04 anyway.

Does Hoyer have borderline talent?
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:53 am

I'd move Quinn to the other list, there were too many deer in headlights moments to consider him a 'Smartie.'

The stat I caught that stands out to me is that Hoyer's leading the league in average time from snap to throw: 2.8 seconds. Now consider he's making his reads before the snap, after the snap, doing his progressions, -and- he's making the throws in crunch time.

I think Hoyer's talent between his ears puts him above borderline. Whether or not its enough to put him at or above Alex Smith, let alone Drew Brees, I'm not sure yet.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:35 am

Hikohadon wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Honest question:

When was the last time we had a QB with the in-game IQ and pocket presence of Hoyer? Have we had any since the return?


I don't know, I haven't seen their IQ scores nor been in their heads to know if their failure was due to mental or physical issues.

When the play calls for you to quick throw a 5 yard pass, you're gonna look decisive whether you really are or not.




Actually throwing it with proper pace and to proper spot makes it seem a whole lot more decisive.

So I agree that doesn't necessarily mean Hoyer is more decisive (although I absolutely think he is) but, like you said, I do know it looks more decisive when the catch is made.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:36 am

Agree with Madre, I think BQ had just enough talent to be effective if he had ever "got it".

Not sure if Holcomb is a DumDum or a Smartie either.

To answer you other question, JB, yes, I think Hoyer has almost enough talent to possibly someday be a franchise QB if everything went right. Almost.

We got plenty of time the rest of the season to see if we should be on or off the Hoyer Lift. Not gonna stop scouting guys that I know have enough talent.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:45 am

Hikohadon wrote:We got plenty of time the rest of the season to see if we should be on or off the Hoyer Lift.


:thumbup
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:08 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Honest question:

When was the last time we had a QB with the in-game IQ and pocket presence of Hoyer? Have we had any since the return?


I don't know, I haven't seen their IQ scores nor been in their heads to know if their failure was due to mental or physical issues.

When the play calls for you to quick throw a 5 yard pass, you're gonna look decisive whether you really are or not.




Actually throwing it with proper pace and to proper spot makes it seem a whole lot more decisive.

So I agree that doesn't necessarily mean Hoyer is more decisive (although I absolutely think he is) but, like you said, I do know it looks more decisive when the catch is made.


True as well.

Combine a lot of short quick passes with throwing those passes accurately, it looks smart.

I submit that any pass play of his over 15 yards looks both much less decisive and much less accurate.

But he's got plenty of time to win me over.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:09 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:I'd move Quinn to the other list, there were too many deer in headlights moments to consider him a 'Smartie.'

The stat I caught that stands out to me is that Hoyer's leading the league in average time from snap to throw: 2.8 seconds. Now consider he's making his reads before the snap, after the snap, doing his progressions, -and- he's making the throws in crunch time.

I think Hoyer's talent between his ears puts him above borderline. Whether or not its enough to put him at or above Alex Smith, let alone Drew Brees, I'm not sure yet.



BQ is obviously smart. He graduated from ND. It's not Hopkins but its up there.

Tony Rice says so.

But yeah, Hoyer's key is timing. The ball comes out. This was Weed's achilles heel for all the talk of pocket presence. Guy was like my wife in Nordstrom's shoe department.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:39 pm

Quinn graduated under Fat Charlie who the Catholics decided didn't have to uphold any of the academic standards they held Ty Willingham to because fat white Irish guys get free run at ND.

I mean fuck, Teo has an ND degree too and he dated a fake girl for how long?

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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:44 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Agree with Madre, I think BQ had just enough talent to be effective if he had ever "got it".

Not sure if Holcomb is a DumDum or a Smartie either.

To answer you other question, JB, yes, I think Hoyer has almost enough talent to possibly someday be a franchise QB if everything went right. Almost.

Verbatim could have been said about Brady during most of his first season of action with the Pats. Just sayin.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:00 pm

jb wrote:Dum Dum's:
Couch
Dilfer (no matter what he thinks about himself)
Frye ( reallllly had to think hard here. snort.)
DA
Colt
Weedon

Smarties:
Detmer
Holcomb
Garcia
BQ


Only ones debatable for me are Colt & BQ. I certainly wouldn't call Colt a smartie, but I'd say he was more physically overmatched than a dum dum. I wouldn't really call BQ a dum dum, either. Just irreversibly robotic thanks to Cha'lie.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:12 pm

FUDU wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Agree with Madre, I think BQ had just enough talent to be effective if he had ever "got it".

Not sure if Holcomb is a DumDum or a Smartie either.

To answer you other question, JB, yes, I think Hoyer has almost enough talent to possibly someday be a franchise QB if everything went right. Almost.

Verbatim could have been said about Brady during most of his first season of action with the Pats. Just sayin.


Did they also verbatim call Brady vagina-arm?

Brady always had the arm to be a franchise QB. That's the big diff between Brady in '01 and Hoyer right now.

Again, there are many that claim that Hoyer's arm is/will be fine, and I'm keeping an open mind to that concept, but everything I've seen so far leaves me unconvinced.

And this is early. Come December, he'll throw that ball and it'll blow back and hit him in the facemask. ;)
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:15 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
FUDU wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Agree with Madre, I think BQ had just enough talent to be effective if he had ever "got it".

Not sure if Holcomb is a DumDum or a Smartie either.

To answer you other question, JB, yes, I think Hoyer has almost enough talent to possibly someday be a franchise QB if everything went right. Almost.

Verbatim could have been said about Brady during most of his first season of action with the Pats. Just sayin.


Did they also verbatim call Brady vagina-arm?

Brady always had the arm to be a franchise QB. That's the big diff between Brady in '01 and Hoyer right now.

Again, there are many that claim that Hoyer's arm is/will be fine, and I'm keeping an open mind to that concept, but everything I've seen so far leaves me unconvinced.

And this is early. Come December, he'll throw that ball and it'll blow back and hit him in the facemask. ;)


To be fair, I've never heard anyone other than you call Hoyer "Vagina-Arm". ;-) ;) :wink:

Hell, I never heard anyone Colt "Vagina-Arm".

You know why?

Because it invokes awful, horrible images. (cache)
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:29 pm

You're right, if anyone is Vagina-Arm, it's Colty.

Hoyer can just be Hot Fruit Rollup Arm.

BTW - I do NOT recommend googling "Vagina-Arm".
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:48 pm

Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:18 pm

Hikohadon wrote:TW - I do NOT recommend googling "Vagina-Arm".


I do.

An images search is especially fruitful.

(And I think donald is right about Brady's arm...ETA: but we're past the point of hoping an NFL strength & conditioning program is going to change anything for Hoyer, so it really isn't a fair comparison)
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:19 pm

FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.


Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

All you need to do is watch them to see the difference.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:25 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:TW - I do NOT recommend googling "Vagina-Arm".


I do.

An images search is especially fruitful.

(And I think donald is right about Brady's arm)


I did the image search too. All I can ask is WHY?

Again, I don't think Brady's arm is "special" either. But it's "solid, good enough to not be a detriment to his overall play", and Hoyer's is. AFAIC, at least.

On a scale 1-10 where Jamarcus Russell is a 10 and 6 is the Hiko minimum acceptable strength for an effective NFL QB, Hoyer is like a 5.

Colt is a 2, right below my 10 year old daughter who has a 2.5.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:39 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.


Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

All you need to do is watch them to see the difference.


I did watch him, and them, and I'm only slightly disagreeing RE Brady, not disagreeing RE Hoyer.

BTW Brady didn't sling it around as much as people think he did, never has really. Frankly nobody does, but certainly not him. Yeah he had that really nice YPA, but 42% of his passing yards were YAC, right in the middle of the pack, same as his % of air yards (58%)(AYpA 4.82).

It would be interesting to see Hoyer given a legit shot on a team with few holes though IMHO, especially if he was 3 years younger.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:49 pm

FUDU wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.


Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

All you need to do is watch them to see the difference.


I did watch him, and them, and I'm only slightly disagreeing RE Brady, not disagreeing RE Hoyer.

BTW Brady didn't sling it around as much as people think he did, never has really. Frankly nobody does, but certainly not him. Yeah he had that really nice YPA, but 42% of his passing yards were YAC, right in the middle of the pack, same as his % of air yards (58%)(AYpA 4.82).

It would be interesting to see Hoyer given a legit shot on a team with few holes though IMHO, especially if he was 3 years younger.


I didn't necessarily mean YOU watch him, just that watching them demonstrates the diff.

I think Brady had an insane YPA in 2007 that wasn't all YAC, but he's always been good at picking teams apart with the short game as well, which Hoyer is good at too. Except teams had to respect the Brady deep ball because he could throw it (really accurately too), so he would take what they gave him. I'm afraid teams will take away the short stuff from Hoyer, and he won't have the weaponry to make them pay.

PS - Hoyer has THIS shot, and this is a mediocre team, so if he's gonna get it done this'll be the best chance he'll ever get.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:23 pm

Hikohadon wrote:You're right, if anyone is Vagina-Arm, it's Colty.

Hoyer can just be Hot Fruit Rollup Arm.

BTW - I do NOT recommend googling "Vagina-Arm".



I did. I clicked Feeling Lucky.

It's Human Cetepded unseeable .
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby jb » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:46 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:We got plenty of time the rest of the season to see if we should be on or off the Hoyer Lift.


:thumbup



Words fail me to express how much I hate you guys for these posts.

I hold you completely accountable. :thud:
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:14 pm

FUDU wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.


Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

All you need to do is watch them to see the difference.


I did watch him, and them, and I'm only slightly disagreeing RE Brady, not disagreeing RE Hoyer.

BTW Brady didn't sling it around as much as people think he did, never has really. Frankly nobody does, but certainly not him. Yeah he had that really nice YPA, but 42% of his passing yards were YAC, right in the middle of the pack, same as his % of air yards (58%)(AYpA 4.82).

It would be interesting to see Hoyer given a legit shot on a team with few holes though IMHO, especially if he was 3 years younger.


The Raiders game...the one which Vinty made the greatest kick of all-time....Christ if Brady didn't display to the world what an arm he had rifling the ball in those conditions....

I don't think his arm is what it was 5 years ago, but it was far from "ok" at that time.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:38 am

leadpipe wrote:
FUDU wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.


Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

All you need to do is watch them to see the difference.


I did watch him, and them, and I'm only slightly disagreeing RE Brady, not disagreeing RE Hoyer.

BTW Brady didn't sling it around as much as people think he did, never has really. Frankly nobody does, but certainly not him. Yeah he had that really nice YPA, but 42% of his passing yards were YAC, right in the middle of the pack, same as his % of air yards (58%)(AYpA 4.82).

It would be interesting to see Hoyer given a legit shot on a team with few holes though IMHO, especially if he was 3 years younger.


The Raiders game...the one which Vinty made the greatest kick of all-time....Christ if Brady didn't display to the world what an arm he had rifling the ball in those conditions....

I don't think his arm is what it was 5 years ago, but it was far from "ok" at that time.


SD:

Weeden has an Arm , no brain , no touch , no location , and no clock in his head which tells him to get rid of the ball .

Other than those deal breakers he's just great .

http://nfl.si.com/2013/10/04/cleveland- ... topstories

""""Weeden has a great arm, but he’s historically had problems when asked to make more than one read. So, the Browns’ coaching staff set routes that had their receivers winning one-on-one battles downfield, and that was the key.""""

Quick what happens with a one trick pony when he can't find the plate.

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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:11 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
FUDU wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
FUDU wrote:Nobody was talking about a franchise arm with Brady. His arm got little recognition till his 2nd-3rd year of success. His arm was OK but never praised that early on. Frankly any talk of Brady's arm is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Other than accuracy it's nothing special.

But so far I agree on Hoyer for now, have not seen anything about his arm that excites me.


Brady's arm is underrated, as evidenced by how he slung the ball around during the 2007 season. And while it never was "Day-um, look at his arm!", it was also never "That boy throws like his arm is a hot fruit rollup!", which people say about Hoyer all the time.

All you need to do is watch them to see the difference.


I did watch him, and them, and I'm only slightly disagreeing RE Brady, not disagreeing RE Hoyer.

BTW Brady didn't sling it around as much as people think he did, never has really. Frankly nobody does, but certainly not him. Yeah he had that really nice YPA, but 42% of his passing yards were YAC, right in the middle of the pack, same as his % of air yards (58%)(AYpA 4.82).

It would be interesting to see Hoyer given a legit shot on a team with few holes though IMHO, especially if he was 3 years younger.


The Raiders game...the one which Vinty made the greatest kick of all-time....Christ if Brady didn't display to the world what an arm he had rifling the ball in those conditions....

I don't think his arm is what it was 5 years ago, but it was far from "ok" at that time.


SD:

Weeden has an Arm , no brain , no touch , no location , and no clock in his head which tells him to get rid of the ball .

Other than those deal breakers he's just great .

http://nfl.si.com/2013/10/04/cleveland- ... topstories

""""Weeden has a great arm, but he’s historically had problems when asked to make more than one read. So, the Browns’ coaching staff set routes that had their receivers winning one-on-one battles downfield, and that was the key.""""

Quick what happens with a one trick pony when he can't find the plate.

SoulDawg


The one trick pony will be slinging it for another 11 games before he goes to the CFL, so we get to see what happens soon enough. You're gonna start pimping Freeman in 3, 2, 1...........
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:16 am

I'd take Freeman over Weeden and throw in one of your kidneys. And I don't necessarily think Freeman is a sustainable long term answer either.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:27 am

peeker643 wrote:I'd take Freeman over Weeden and throw in one of your kidneys. And I don't necessarily think Freeman is a sustainable long term answer either.


Feh. No doubt he's a much better QB and Greg Sciano will be coaching a DII program pretty soon, but do you really want to muddy the waters any further? I mean the only reason you grab him is if you think you won't need to draft a first round QB next year. Otherwise I'm all for letting Weeds put the final nail in his own coffin. Like we've never been through a 5 win season before? :pb: :pb:
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:41 am

mattvan1 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:I'd take Freeman over Weeden and throw in one of your kidneys. And I don't necessarily think Freeman is a sustainable long term answer either.


Feh. No doubt he's a much better QB and Greg Sciano will be coaching a DII program pretty soon, but do you really want to muddy the waters any further? I mean the only reason you grab him is if you think you won't need to draft a first round QB next year. Otherwise I'm all for letting Weeds put the final nail in his own coffin. Like we've never been through a 5 win season before? :pb: :pb:


SD:

Fuck That.

Why settle for that shit , when you have a defense who can play anybody in the league .

We're already out of the Bridgewater bowl , because the Jagoffs traded their Left tackle to the inbred to make sure there is no chance anybody knocks them off from their oh fer 16 march to infamy .

Nope better to try and win and get in and see what happens , then use our draft pick power to upgrade the QB spot and enjoy the best of both Worlds.

You don't start winning until you start winning.

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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:38 am

mattvan1 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:I'd take Freeman over Weeden and throw in one of your kidneys. And I don't necessarily think Freeman is a sustainable long term answer either.


Feh. No doubt he's a much better QB and Greg Sciano will be coaching a DII program pretty soon, but do you really want to muddy the waters any further? I mean the only reason you grab him is if you think you won't need to draft a first round QB next year. Otherwise I'm all for letting Weeds put the final nail in his own coffin. Like we've never been through a 5 win season before? :pb: :pb:


It would be different if we were talking about investing picks to trade for him, but I think picking him up off waivers for the deal he is likely to get (extremely short term and cheap, IMO) I'm not sure he can muddy the waters all that much.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:54 am

If they pick up Freeman to play over a healthy Weeden they might as well just cut the ginger. I can't imagine he'd take to kindly to that development.

Not that I think it would matter or anyone should care, but I don't know how big of a clubhouse problem he might be.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:10 pm

motherscratcher wrote:If they pick up Freeman to play over a healthy Weeden they might as well just cut the ginger. I can't imagine he'd take to kindly to that development.

Not that I think it would matter or anyone should care, but I don't know how big of a clubhouse problem he might be.


Kinda my point. Hypothetically you sign JF Saturday or Sunday. So then he needs to learn the offense, get timing down with the WRs, etc etc. To do that he needs reps - lotsa lotsa reps - which he gets where, exactly? If you sign him you almost gotta plan on playing him right away against the Lions. The bye week is 4 games from now, so I guess if you want to sign him and give him 20% of the very limited practice reps for the next 4 weeks and make the move during the week off then maybe I can see it.

You don't do this as a stop gap. You do it if you think he could be The One.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby jb » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:31 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:If they pick up Freeman to play over a healthy Weeden they might as well just cut the ginger. I can't imagine he'd take to kindly to that development.

Not that I think it would matter or anyone should care, but I don't know how big of a clubhouse problem he might be.


Kinda my point. Hypothetically you sign JF Saturday or Sunday. So then he needs to learn the offense, get timing down with the WRs, etc etc. To do that he needs reps - lotsa lotsa reps - which he gets where, exactly? If you sign him you almost gotta plan on playing him right away against the Lions. The bye week is 4 games from now, so I guess if you want to sign him and give him 20% of the very limited practice reps for the next 4 weeks and make the move during the week off then maybe I can see it.

You don't do this as a stop gap. You do it if you think he could be The One.


There's lot's of definitions of "The One".

Miss Right Now.

Miss Fun for a While

Miss Right.

Hoo Doo, who is responsible for all of this, makes a good point. May be hard to get him at 3 - 2. But sign him and give him the reigns for 13 ala Rypien if campbell eally is a non-option.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:31 pm

mattvan1 wrote:Kinda my point. Hypothetically you sign JF Saturday or Sunday. So then he needs to learn the offense, get timing down with the WRs, etc etc. To do that he needs reps - lotsa lotsa reps - which he gets where, exactly? If you sign him you almost gotta plan on playing him right away against the Lions. The bye week is 4 games from now, so I guess if you want to sign him and give him 20% of the very limited practice reps for the next 4 weeks and make the move during the week off then maybe I can see it.


How is that any different from any other FA QB we can bring in to be our 3rd QB on the roster right now?

As much as I hate it, Weeden is obviously starting in 9 days against Detroit. And if he's bad enough to get pulled, it's going to be Campbell. But unless an entire team's QB depth chart dies in a horrible explosion or something, this is every team's situation right now, so Freeman's options are kind of limited, and I'd tend to think the chances of Weeden & Campbell being bad enough over the next four games to justify another starter after the bye week are at least as good here as they are anywhere else.

From our perspective, he's immediately a warm body, and possibly one with legit starter upside.

From his perspective, our QBs are terrible, and he might get a chance to play. "And if they could make that scrub Hoyer look good..."
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:59 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:Kinda my point. Hypothetically you sign JF Saturday or Sunday. So then he needs to learn the offense, get timing down with the WRs, etc etc. To do that he needs reps - lotsa lotsa reps - which he gets where, exactly? If you sign him you almost gotta plan on playing him right away against the Lions. The bye week is 4 games from now, so I guess if you want to sign him and give him 20% of the very limited practice reps for the next 4 weeks and make the move during the week off then maybe I can see it.


How is that any different from any other FA QB we can bring in to be our 3rd QB on the roster right now?

As much as I hate it, Weeden is obviously starting in 9 days against Detroit. And if he's bad enough to get pulled, it's going to be Campbell. But unless an entire team's QB depth chart dies in a horrible explosion or something, this is every team's situation right now, so Freeman's options are kind of limited, and I'd tend to think the chances of Weeden & Campbell being bad enough over the next four games to justify another starter after the bye week are at least as good here as they are anywhere else.

From our perspective, he's immediately a warm body, and possibly one with legit starter upside.

From his perspective, our QBs are terrible, and he might get a chance to play. "And if they could make that scrub Hoyer look good..."


Uh, cause we (at least the GMs on this board) aren't bringing him in as 3rd choice. And JF is not going to come here as 3rd choice. We're bringing him into start. But to start him means he needs reps, which means taking reps away from the guy that is going to start until JF is ready.

Unless you want to sign him and not promise him anything (wink wink, nudge nudge) and see what happens. This has the added effect of having Weeden looking over his shoulder every second of every day, which would hasten his departure.

So maybe it would work. ;-) ;) :wink:

Not saying don't do it, just that's it not quite as simply as picking up a left handed relief pitcher at the deadline.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:20 pm

mattvan1 wrote:Uh, cause we (at least the GMs on this board) aren't bringing him in as 3rd choice. And JF is not going to come here as 3rd choice. We're bringing him into start.


I don't see the necessity for such a commitment.

Actual possible course of action:

-Sign Freeman

-Start Weeden against Detroit, leave him in the game as long as things are going well, but if/when things take a bad turn and BW plays a part in it, pull him for Campbell. Repeat as necessary, week to week.

-At that point prep Freeman as much as you can with a target Start 1 of the first game after the bye.

Maybe you never get to Step 3 there, because BW takes off, or Campbell looks better than expected. (Note: these things probably won't happen.) Just give me the option to fall back on.

ETA: though my much preferred, but I assume impractical, course of action would be to just start Campbell now and begin prepping Freeman for the starting job immediately.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:03 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:Uh, cause we (at least the GMs on this board) aren't bringing him in as 3rd choice. And JF is not going to come here as 3rd choice. We're bringing him into start.


I don't see the necessity for such a commitment.

Actual possible course of action:

-Sign Freeman

-Start Weeden against Detroit, leave him in the game as long as things are going well, but if/when things take a bad turn and BW plays a part in it, pull him for Campbell. Repeat as necessary, week to week.

-At that point prep Freeman as much as you can with a target Start 1 of the first game after the bye.

Maybe you never get to Step 3 there, because BW takes off, or Campbell looks better than expected. (Note: these things probably won't happen.) Just give me the option to fall back on.

ETA: though my much preferred, but I assume impractical, course of action would be to just start Campbell now and begin prepping Freeman for the starting job immediately.


I think the commitment is important because otherwise why would the guy sign to be inactive every game and get no reps in practice? You're not talking a journeyman type of guy- JF is bonafide with proven success. "Josh, we love you and think you have a bright future here and an opportunity to resurrect your career."
"Great. Can't wait to get started. How do plan on working me in?"
"We don't. Not at first."
"Uh, Ok. Where am I on the depth chart?"
"You're 3rd, behind Weeden and Campbell"
"Those stiffs!?!? Have you lost your mind?"

I thinks it's got be your much preferred option- bring the guy with a plan on when he starts. Wait and see what happens might not cut it. One thing going for the Browns is the guy will sit whoever he goes, at least for awhile, so why not here?
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:47 pm

You guys are so funny. Josh Freeman? The guy who's thrown 42 interceptions in his last 34 games? The guy the lowly Buccaneers cut?
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:00 pm

jerryroche wrote:You guys are so funny. Josh Freeman? The guy who's thrown 42 interceptions in his last 34 games? The guy the lowly Buccaneers cut?
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:



Yep the same one whose QBR rating was 20 points higher Weedens, even as he was flogged outta Tampa


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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:01 pm

In 2 out of 4 seasons, he's cleared a QB Rating of 80+, including one over 90.

In 1 out of 14 seasons, our QBs have cleared a QB rating of 80+.

And he's 25 years old.

Why not?
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:21 pm

Thanks to Hoyer we are seeing a few things showing us just how fine the line is for being a capable QB to being a meh one, and to an offense fulfilling some of its potential.

On time and on target delivery, its a thing of freakin beauty in this town. It actually allows your play makers to....make plays. Which brings me to Gordon, let's not ignore the impact he has had on this offense in two games. Him and Hoyer have really complimented each other in their limited time together.
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Re: Brian Hoyer is for real"............

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:24 pm

Weeden doesn't have timing with the WRs, yet he still plays, and will continue to.
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