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Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

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Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:19 am

It is as I told y'all well before it went down. By and large, Fans are in full apocalyptic melt mode after two non blow out losses. The level of freak out is nowhere near proportionate to performance but rather expectations.

To expect a change in results what is the prerequisite?

Change in input variables.

What did the Browns change in the off season? The Browns made two major changes. They overturned the entire coaching staff and retooled the D front 7 to play 3-4. End of list.

When you retool the coaching staff and install new systems you don't play better out of the gate in most cases. The exception may be if you have a strategic Xs & Os advantage. Chud, Norv & Horton bring absolutely nothing new to the table there and have a young team that also contains fatal flaws. They are playing a known set of systems on 101 level.

Fans convinced themselves Pat Shurmur was stupid and scapegoated him and that X Season was "vanilla".

Other than that, except for the emergence of JC & Gordon out plus 1 backup OL man this is the same O. You're getting about the same results on the curve of a new system. Shocking.

The D front is playing well. This is where the talent infusion went this offseason. Shocking. Causality you don't say?

In hindsight Miami was aggressive in the offseason , had some continuity in key areas of developing talent and I expect them to win 9 or 10 games. Good team.

B-more has issues and is in transition but has more than enough positives to win 9 or 10 games.

The Browns played with both teams and made fatal execution errors and areas of unaddressed weakness were exploited. They lost 2 boring but winnable teams to good teams. This is hardly surprising nor tragic.

The talk shows and big forums are an excellent microcosm of hard core Browns fans left. It is in a rage of melt like we lost 49-0 simply due to expectations. This rage should have been going on in the off season. Now the watch is wound; the die is cast. This remains a 5 - 6 win team with health. I got August giddy myself & thought 7.

There are many high picks left on the roster in years 2 & 3 of their careers. They have brand new systems to learn and execute and camp is now watered down to glorified Saturday walk thru thanks to the NFLPA & Goodel choosing his battles based on revenue.

The FO was right to evaluate these young players rather than jump to conclusions. The evaluation is skewed do to coaching change. But it was the right path. Here's their fatal mistake: They botched the evaulation conditions by allowing a few holes that hve created fatal flaws to actually evaluate. That's what FA's are for - to solidly fill any area you can not address over the long haul so you can evaluate the alleged talent. Solidify the right way and you can see if you can really evaluate. Otherwise, your evaluation process will be flawed and you can't really tell what you have.

First test: set up the correct year one evaluation scenario so you can actually evaluate. Fail.

The problem is the fan base was sold by Banner & Haslam on immediate improvement when we're on another 5 win trajectory in year 1 of what will be a rebuild. That was never a question, only the magnitude .

Long story short: when you lie & deceive people get angry.

This seems to be the MO of the new guys and there is a track record of such.

So fans are in a rage. This will play out the rest of the season as the evaluation & development continues.

The old adage applies to anyone a fan since 99: fool me once shame on you... You know the rest.

Hope is a dangerous thing.

Your move Mr Banner.

3 more years to wait and see.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:54 am

Good post.

Let's start with MY expectations for the 2013 Cleveland Browns.

I expected the team to first and foremost, look and play like an actual NFL team. Too often in the past, we've been completely out-classed and inept in completing even the most mundane tasks of an NFL team. I expected, based mostly on Banner's commentary, that while we wouldnt be "good" per se, we'd at least be competitive and would look like we're playing the same sport as we flip the channels between games.

This has been a major disappointment. We look the same as we did under Romeo, Mangini, Shurmur, etc. If you squint your eyes, you can't the tell difference between Chud and Patty. Dropped passes, blown assigments, DELAY OF GAME PENALTIES!!!!, curious play calling, REALLY curious play calling (Cousins pulling to block Suggs????), etc.

I didn't expect a winning season. Maybe, as you say, that puts me in the minority. But, not trying to be obtuse....who cares? Who cares if the fans get "angry"?

They are working their plan towards the ultimate goal -- sustained success and a Super Bowl.

Can they do it? Who the hell knows...early returns look less than promising.

I have many concerns. The fans getting mad aint one of them.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:32 am

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:
I didn't expect a winning season. Maybe, as you say, that puts me in the minority. But, not trying to be obtuse....who cares? Who cares if the fans get "angry"?



There's another word for fans. They are called "customers".

Randy cared what fans thought- a lot. He changed course, coaches, GM's, you name it several times based on fan reaction. he even "unfired" Phil savage.

Remains to be seen how Haslam and banner react.... or to your point, do not.

The irony is as to the Browns you should not care one iota. ray Charles should have seen this coming. These are brand new systems and young players.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby pod2dawg » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:55 am

They man up and put their 11 against ours. Team with the best 11 usually wins.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:17 pm

jb wrote:Here's their fatal mistake: They botched the evaulation conditions by allowing a few holes that hve created fatal flaws to actually evaluate. That's what FA's are for - to solidly fill any area you can not address over the long haul so you can evaluate the alleged talent. Solidify the right way and you can see if you can really evaluate. Otherwise, your evaluation process will be flawed and you can't really tell what you have.


Almost unforgivable lack of foresight and execution.

Honestly, their almost stubborn inaction in areas of clear need can only be explained in one way that makes them seem competent - they're tanking so they can get "their" QB.

Otherwise, they're just boobs. Not the good kind, either.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:14 pm

jb wrote:It is as I told y'all well before it went down. By and large, Fans are in full apocalyptic melt mode after two non blow out losses. The level of freak out is nowhere near proportionate to performance but rather expectations.

To expect a change in results what is the prerequisite?

Change in input variables.

What did the Browns change in the off season? The Browns made two major changes. They overturned the entire coaching staff and retooled the D front 7 to play 3-4. End of list.

When you retool the coaching staff and install new systems you don't play better out of the gate in most cases. The exception may be if you have a strategic Xs & Os advantage. Chud, Norv & Horton bring absolutely nothing new to the table there and have a young team that also contains fatal flaws. They are playing a known set of systems on 101 level.

Fans convinced themselves Pat Shurmur was stupid and scapegoated him and that X Season was "vanilla".

Other than that, except for the emergence of JC & Gordon out plus 1 backup OL man this is the same O. You're getting about the same results on the curve of a new system. Shocking.

The D front is playing well. This is where the talent infusion went this offseason. Shocking. Causality you don't say?

In hindsight Miami was aggressive in the offseason , had some continuity in key areas of developing talent and I expect them to win 9 or 10 games. Good team.

B-more has issues and is in transition but has more than enough positives to win 9 or 10 games.

The Browns played with both teams and made fatal execution errors and areas of unaddressed weakness were exploited. They lost 2 boring but winnable teams to good teams. This is hardly surprising nor tragic.

The talk shows and big forums are an excellent microcosm of hard core Browns fans left. It is in a rage of melt like we lost 49-0 simply due to expectations. This rage should have been going on in the off season. Now the watch is wound; the die is cast. This remains a 5 - 6 win team with health. I got August giddy myself & thought 7.

There are many high picks left on the roster in years 2 & 3 of their careers. They have brand new systems to learn and execute and camp is now watered down to glorified Saturday walk thru thanks to the NFLPA & Goodel choosing his battles based on revenue.

The FO was right to evaluate these young players rather than jump to conclusions. The evaluation is skewed do to coaching change. But it was the right path. Here's their fatal mistake: They botched the evaulation conditions by allowing a few holes that hve created fatal flaws to actually evaluate. That's what FA's are for - to solidly fill any area you can not address over the long haul so you can evaluate the alleged talent. Solidify the right way and you can see if you can really evaluate. Otherwise, your evaluation process will be flawed and you can't really tell what you have.

First test: set up the correct year one evaluation scenario so you can actually evaluate. Fail.

The problem is the fan base was sold by Banner & Haslam on immediate improvement when we're on another 5 win trajectory in year 1 of what will be a rebuild. That was never a question, only the magnitude .

Long story short: when you lie & deceive people get angry.

This seems to be the MO of the new guys and there is a track record of such.

So fans are in a rage. This will play out the rest of the season as the evaluation & development continues.

The old adage applies to anyone a fan since 99: fool me once shame on you... You know the rest.

Hope is a dangerous thing.

Your move Mr Banner.

3 more years to wait and see.



SD:

Overly simplified fingerpointing , on the wrong party.

If your QB simply plays upto a DA level Brain cramp with this defense your looking at a 2-0 record vs two teams who will compete for division honors .

as it is he sucks , and you might as well start your pool for when Hoyer starts , because Campbell is no answer either .

Meantime the only QB I said was worth a fuck in that entire 2012 shit draft for QB is the stud at Buffalo , so nobody can point a finger here and say Banners philosophy with an eye toward this 2014 rich QB laden draft was ill played when there wasn't one QB in the entire 2013 pick worh a top 15 selection .

Hell I said the guy who went to Buffalo didn't even begin to have value to the bottom third of that draft .

This is Karma banging us back in the butt for hiring that lard ass Holmgren to fuck us in the ass and get paid for it .

Take it like a man , because ain't shit we can do about it until we either trade for Cousins , or grab one of Bridgewater Tahge , or possibly the Pac twelve dandies at Oregon or UCLA , that is unless you like your toast buttered with Manzel in the morning .

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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:15 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Here's their fatal mistake: They botched the evaulation conditions by allowing a few holes that hve created fatal flaws to actually evaluate. That's what FA's are for - to solidly fill any area you can not address over the long haul so you can evaluate the alleged talent. Solidify the right way and you can see if you can really evaluate. Otherwise, your evaluation process will be flawed and you can't really tell what you have.


Almost unforgivable lack of foresight and execution.

Honestly, their almost stubborn inaction in areas of clear need can only be explained in one way that makes them seem competent - they're tanking so they can get "their" QB.

Otherwise, they're just boobs. Not the good kind, either.


I hope this is right. But like JB said, Hope is a dangerous thing.

I think the reason for the collective Cleveland meltdown after these first 2 games isn't that people were expecting them to be good. I think it's a reaction to, not only the same ineptitude that we are so accustom to, but also the complete and total lack of progress from year after year of ineptitude.

And I think it really boils down to Weeden. It's become apparent that he just, well, sucks. There is and will never be progress there.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:22 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:Take it like a man , because ain't shit we can do about it until we either trade for Cousins , or grab one of Bridgewater Tahge , or possibly the Pac twelve dandies at Oregon or UCLA , that is unless you like your toast buttered with Manzel in the morning .

SoulDawg



Unfortunately, I think the defense is too good, and as bad as the O has looked, there is too much potential with guys like JC, Gordon and (yes) TRich to suck our way to the top this year. Again. :pb:

What do you think of Manziel SD?
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:27 pm

Randy cared what fans thought- a lot. He changed course, coaches, GM's, you name it several times based on fan reaction. he even "unfired" Phil savage.

Remains to be seen how Haslam and banner react.... or to your point, do not.


I think it is more dangerous to make moves / changes to appease the fans than to ignore the fans.

These fans aren't leaving. If losing the team and 14 years of suck doesnt break the fan-base, nothing will.

Besides, Banner views himself as the smartest guy in the room -- he won't waver from his Plan.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:51 pm

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Besides, Banner views himself as the smartest guy in the room -- he won't waver from his Plan.


On this we agree 100%.


The caveat is they all waiver when they feel their jobs are in doubt. With an absentee owner involved in his own scandle this essentially guarantees 2 seasons.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:54 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:

SD:

Overly simplified fingerpointing , on the wrong party.

If your QB simply plays upto a DA level Brain cramp with this defense your looking at a 2-0 record vs two teams who will compete for division honors .

as it is he sucks , and you might as well start your pool for when Hoyer starts , because Campbell is no answer either .

Meantime the only QB I said was worth a fuck in that entire 2012 shit draft for QB is the stud at Buffalo , so nobody can point a finger here and say Banners philosophy with an eye toward this 2014 rich QB laden draft was ill played when there wasn't one QB in the entire 2013 pick worh a top 15 selection .

Hell I said the guy who went to Buffalo didn't even begin to have value to the bottom third of that draft .

This is Karma banging us back in the butt for hiring that lard ass Holmgren to fuck us in the ass and get paid for it .

Take it like a man , because ain't shit we can do about it until we either trade for Cousins , or grab one of Bridgewater Tahge , or possibly the Pac twelve dandies at Oregon or UCLA , that is unless you like your toast buttered with Manzel in the morning .

SoulDawg



Heh - the oversimplification charge gets followed up with "it's 100% about the QB".

I like irony.

Relax Hoss. This isn't an elaborate Weeden defense.

we need a new one a them, too.

The bitch is IDK about propping T Rich up and how many more WR's we need either.

Having just one of those functiing parts so we could tell if ANYONE can play would help evaluate.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:56 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:SD:

Overly simplified fingerpointing , on the wrong party.

If your QB simply plays upto a DA level Brain cramp with this defense your looking at a 2-0 record vs two teams who will compete for division honors .

as it is he sucks , and you might as well start your pool for when Hoyer starts , because Campbell is no answer either .

Meantime the only QB I said was worth a fuck in that entire 2012 shit draft for QB is the stud at Buffalo , so nobody can point a finger here and say Banners philosophy with an eye toward this 2014 rich QB laden draft was ill played when there wasn't one QB in the entire 2013 pick worh a top 15 selection .

Hell I said the guy who went to Buffalo didn't even begin to have value to the bottom third of that draft .

This is Karma banging us back in the butt for hiring that lard ass Holmgren to fuck us in the ass and get paid for it .

Take it like a man , because ain't shit we can do about it until we either trade for Cousins , or grab one of Bridgewater Tahge , or possibly the Pac twelve dandies at Oregon or UCLA , that is unless you like your toast buttered with Manzel in the morning .

SoulDawg


You call his analysis over-simplified then lay all the blame on Weeden? Last I remember, DA didn't run out and catch the ball for his receivers too. And he had a shell of running game.

Yes, Weeden has been bad. So has Richardson. The O Line has been terrible, they can't run block or pass block, and that's mostly on them, not the guy behind them, b/c they were decent last year with the same QB. The WR's are laughable. The Fullback is unaddressed. So is starting Corner. Safety is a trainwreck. How about a #2 TE?

ALL that shit needs fixed.

The stink of neglect is all over this team.

Totally am down with they need a QB first and foremost and only then can you begin hoping for real improvement. But this team needs a lot more work than just that.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby Triple-S » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:53 pm

Look.

You need to get the QB first before we can even remotely discuss the other things.

A good to great QB can survive with a couple of "meh" targets.

Tom Brady won rings with guys like Troy Brown, Deion Branch and David Patten

Drew Brees broke records with guys like Robert Meachem, Marques Colston,and Devery Henderson.

A good QB would have gotten us two wins by now. This team has a defense that can at least keep us in games. (outside of a terrible secondary, but that's for a different time). Do you really think that RYAN TANNEHILL is some elite talent that can win against the best QB's in the league? HELL NAW.

If the Browns were starting some cloned version of Aaron Rodgers, we're all having making fun of the guy and calling him the 2nd coming of Chad Henne. Instead we had to listen to idiots on twitter pissed that we didn't draft the guy, and morons like Solomon Wilcots crowning him the heir apparent to Dan Marino.

I'll give you Joe Flacco maybe, but even then the Ravens looked like a winnable game.

Get me a QB first before we discuss anything else. Shore up the offensive line too, and make sure we never have some idiot like ONeil Cousins taking snaps. But QB is the number one priority right now.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:20 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Here's their fatal mistake: They botched the evaulation conditions by allowing a few holes that hve created fatal flaws to actually evaluate. That's what FA's are for - to solidly fill any area you can not address over the long haul so you can evaluate the alleged talent. Solidify the right way and you can see if you can really evaluate. Otherwise, your evaluation process will be flawed and you can't really tell what you have.


Almost unforgivable lack of foresight and execution.

Honestly, their almost stubborn inaction in areas of clear need can only be explained in one way that makes them seem competent - they're tanking so they can get "their" QB.

Otherwise, they're just boobs. Not the good kind, either.


I hope this is right. But like JB said, Hope is a dangerous thing.

I think the reason for the collective Cleveland meltdown after these first 2 games isn't that people were expecting them to be good. I think it's a reaction to, not only the same ineptitude that we are so accustom to, but also the complete and total lack of progress from year after year of ineptitude.

And I think it really boils down to Weeden. It's become apparent that he just, well, sucks. There is and will never be progress there.


Yep this is what it is for most fans. So much front office change, so many personnel changes, every new regime with a "new philosophy", all trying to achieve culture change, yet we get the same results. Not just the same W-L results either, we achieve those W-L results in the same manner with the same boneheadedness year in and year out. It's mind numbing.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby Govbarney » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:30 pm

SoulDawg[/quote]
Unfortunately, I think the defense is too good, and as bad as the O has looked, there is too much potential with guys like JC, Gordon and (yes) TRich to suck our way to the top this year. Again. :pb:

What do you think of Manziel SD?[/quote]

The true art of the Tank is to still lose when you have that talent to theoretically win. I'm putting all my misplaced faith in the Haslem/Banner/Lombardi holy trinity... My hope is this team will finish last out of a careful well planned design, like Indy did in '12 and not out of simple ineptitude like say Detroit for most of the last 50 years.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:09 pm

Govbarney wrote:SoulDawg

Unfortunately, I think the defense is too good, and as bad as the O has looked, there is too much potential with guys like JC, Gordon and (yes) TRich to suck our way to the top this year. Again. :pb:

What do you think of Manziel SD?[/quote]

The true art of the Tank is to still lose when you have that talent to theoretically win. I'm putting all my misplaced faith in the Haslem/Banner/Lombardi holy trinity... My hope is this team will finish last out of a careful well planned design, like Indy did in '12 and not out of simple ineptitude like say Detroit for most of the last 50 years.[/quote]

It is more conceivable that the Browns could perform a "planned tank" than the Colts. Let us not forget that their tank cost the coaching staff their jobs. So I hardly think the coaching staff was in on it, and if they weren't in on it, then neither were the players, so it can hardly be termed a tank.

But Chud/Norv/Horton? You know they survive this year even with a 2-14 record. So it's not beyond comprehension that they could be cool with such a move if it gets Chud his Cleveland Cam.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:26 pm

OK, JB ,for discussions sake. Let's say we earn one of the top two picks in the 2014 draft, and we get one of the sure fire can't miss QB prospects.

Do you think Chud/Norv can actually utilize this franchise savior in such a way as to finally make a difference and put us on the map? Do you think they can adapt an offense for this stud so the team can survive and succeed in the new NFL? Or are they just gonna plug him into what we have now, and work out his bugs over 2 years?
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jerryroche » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:51 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Totally am down with they need a QB first and foremost and only then can you begin hoping for real improvement. But this team needs a lot more work than just that.

Agreed, Weeden is not the only problem, not by a long shot. But the QB position is problematic.

Being the old fart that I am, I prefer the traditional pocket passer like Weeden. But looking at the current OL and back at the Browns' QBs and OLs from 1999 to 2012, it's pretty evident that -- for this team to contend -- the QB has to be ready, willing and able to move around back there and occasionally run his ass off, or he'll lose it. And old stone-feet simply ain't that guy.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Pass to Cameron yesterday.

1ST and goal at the 6.

I'm gonna leave Weeds out of it. I'm not even gonna whine (again) as to the fact if you trade up to number 4 for a horse back, you'd better be able to ride him here.

I'd like to know who composes a fucking roster devoid of not only a blocking fullback, but ALSO no blocking TE.

Christ, you ought to have both of these things. Having neither....makes ZERO sense.

Team continues to be a joke. Ledging after 2 games IS nonsense. Watching a laughingstock for a dozen or so years, and pointing out negatives ain't all that irrational.

Want less heat?

Do something right.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby justmebd » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:27 pm

leadpipe wrote:Pass to Cameron yesterday.

1ST and goal at the 6.

I'm gonna leave Weeds out of it. I'm not even gonna whine (again) as to the fact if you trade up to number 4 for a horse back, you'd better be able to ride him here.

I'd like to know who composes a fucking roster devoid of not only a blocking fullback, but ALSO no blocking TE.

Christ, you ought to have both of these things. Having neither....makes ZERO sense.

Team continues to be a joke. Ledging after 2 games IS nonsense. Watching a laughingstock for a dozen or so years, and pointing out negatives ain't all that irrational.

Want less heat?

Do something right.

Yes.

I don't want to start piling on the FO/coaching staff this early, but facts are facts and the product on the field isn't telling tales out of school.

My ONE hope going into this season was we wouldn't be saddled with a FO with a personal agenda trumping winning. Now I'm not so sure. Unless that agenda is to get the No. 1 overall pick, which I hope to Odin it is.

Coaching: Still appalled at the lack of creativity and just how easy it was to predict for the Ravens defense.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby bookelly » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:50 pm

People are pissed because we were fed false hope and swallowed it like a Pastrami Rueben. Like it or not, they are tanking. Let's hope they can at least lose correctly.

As far as the average fan goes...exercise your capitalist right and don't give these guys a single dime of your money. I know I never will. Go to a Tribe game or back the Cavs. Both those teams are gonna be pretty damn good for the next 3-4 years. Fuck the Browns.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:04 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:SD:

Overly simplified fingerpointing , on the wrong party.

If your QB simply plays upto a DA level Brain cramp with this defense your looking at a 2-0 record vs two teams who will compete for division honors .

as it is he sucks , and you might as well start your pool for when Hoyer starts , because Campbell is no answer either .

Meantime the only QB I said was worth a fuck in that entire 2012 shit draft for QB is the stud at Buffalo , so nobody can point a finger here and say Banners philosophy with an eye toward this 2014 rich QB laden draft was ill played when there wasn't one QB in the entire 2013 pick worh a top 15 selection .

Hell I said the guy who went to Buffalo didn't even begin to have value to the bottom third of that draft .

This is Karma banging us back in the butt for hiring that lard ass Holmgren to fuck us in the ass and get paid for it .

Take it like a man , because ain't shit we can do about it until we either trade for Cousins , or grab one of Bridgewater Tahge , or possibly the Pac twelve dandies at Oregon or UCLA , that is unless you like your toast buttered with Manzel in the morning .

SoulDawg


You call his analysis over-simplified then lay all the blame on Weeden? Last I remember, DA didn't run out and catch the ball for his receivers too. And he had a shell of running game.

Yes, Weeden has been bad. So has Richardson. The O Line has been terrible, they can't run block or pass block, and that's mostly on them, not the guy behind them, b/c they were decent last year with the same QB. The WR's are laughable. The Fullback is unaddressed. So is starting Corner. Safety is a trainwreck. How about a #2 TE?

ALL that shit needs fixed.

The stink of neglect is all over this team.

Totally am down with they need a QB first and foremost and only then can you begin hoping for real improvement. But this team needs a lot more work than just that.



SD:

Agreed we have some other problems what team doesn't ,

But look at us witha a Kap. Wilson Luck or Rg3 and tell me you still feel the same hopelessness set in.

Look at those teams with Flynn Colt gross man or. Curtis Painter manning the helm instead of the studs they got,

Those guys are Bell cows we trot out tinker bell.

You want to know how much better this team would be witha real QB

Just look at how. Weeden looked like Joe Montanna when compared to Campbell's missives.

That's the difference to which I speak everybody is better witha guy who can raise your game from the coaching to the water boy your entire team steps up.

Conversely with one of these anchors it drags everybody down from special teams to the fan base .

Right now the only way this season is watchable is they get lucky with Hoyer , that he can run this offense. With live bullets the way he did verse the UPS backups.

Weeden has turned the most QB friendly system you can run into a monkey fucking a football ,

They've got it so dumbed down now for Weeden to execute it, DA would be likened to a RHodes scholar.

This ain't baseball. , guys have to stand up and lead , and young teams have to be led.

We are lost in the wilderness without Moses.


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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:41 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Agreed we have some other problems what team doesn't ,

But look at us witha a Kap. Wilson Luck or Rg3 and tell me you still feel the same hopelessness set in.


This is the truth


SoulDawg74 wrote:Weeden has turned the most QB friendly system you can run into a monkey fucking a football ,

They've got it so dumbed down now for Weeden to execute it, DA would be likened to a RHodes scholar.


And this is just horseshit. Look, I don't like Weeden, you don't like Weeden, no one likes Weeden.

The offense is limited because you have a RT who should be playing RG, the starting RG who should be driving a truck, a Number 1 WR who might be lucky to land a spot on a CFL roster, no FB and not a single TE who can block. And a rookie HC who seems incapable of making ANY in game adjustments with respect to pass pro. It probably doesn't help that the OL coach makes Jim Bollman look like Alex Gibbs.

So scapegoat Weeden all you want, but if you think Bridgewater or Boyd or the ghost of Kelly Unitas are coming in here next year to wave a magic wand and fix this horrendous shit sandwich of an offense you've lost your mind.

ETA - Oh yeah, the early 1990's called Norv. They want their offense back.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:47 pm

Who's Kelly Unitas?
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:09 am

motherscratcher wrote:Who's Kelly Unitas?


gloss for Kelly Holcomb, who when compared to Tim Couch "played like Johnny Unitas"

At least according to some peeps back in the day.

Right Soul? ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:20 am

Well, with Weeden apparently out, those who for some reason wanted to see Jason Campbell will get their opportunity. And with Josh Gordon in tow to boot.

Something tells me that other than hair color, you won't be able to tell the difference.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:49 am

Hikohadon wrote:Well, with Weeden apparently out, those who for some reason wanted to see Jason Campbell will get their opportunity. And with Josh Gordon in tow to boot.

Something tells me that other than hair color, you won't be able to tell the difference.


I would prefer to see Hoyer, actually. Campbell is a relatively known quantity. As long as we're gonna waste a year to see what we've got, might as well check out all 45/53
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby comish » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:25 am

This is an orchestrated tank job...and it's a beaut!

This isn't the fat Walrus collecting bags of money running this thing....these dudes want to show everyone they are the smartest people in the room (League). They (the brass)have warts, but no way could they possibly look at that roster and NOT FIX some gaping holes.....particularly since they had the war chest to do so.

The circumstantial evidence is there to see.

How else can you explain their draft strategy? Stupidity? Maybe? OR a plan to stockpile picks for the following year when they are gonna get "Their Guy"

Interesting to see how many impact players (not that we have many) begin to get shelved for injuries throughout the year.

The scenario is perfect for them....no fear of getting run out of town, no fear of turning off a fan base that will queue up for tickets no matter what, no fear of getting zapped by an owner who is probably well aware of "the plan"....even Chud is bullet proof.

They are tanking in a way that would make the Black Sox proud.

I say GO FOR IT...tank it HUGE and stop the decade and a half mess that is this franchise.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:29 am

mattvan1 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
Agreed we have some other problems what team doesn't ,

But look at us witha a Kap. Wilson Luck or Rg3 and tell me you still feel the same hopelessness set in.


This is the truth


SoulDawg74 wrote:Weeden has turned the most QB friendly system you can run into a monkey fucking a football ,

They've got it so dumbed down now for Weeden to execute it, DA would be likened to a RHodes scholar.


And this is just horseshit. Look, I don't like Weeden, you don't like Weeden, no one likes Weeden.

The offense is limited because you have a RT who should be playing RG, the starting RG who should be driving a truck, a Number 1 WR who might be lucky to land a spot on a CFL roster, no FB and not a single TE who can block. And a rookie HC who seems incapable of making ANY in game adjustments with respect to pass pro. It probably doesn't help that the OL coach makes Jim Bollman look like Alex Gibbs.

So scapegoat Weeden all you want, but if you think Bridgewater or Boyd or the ghost of Kelly Unitas are coming in here next year to wave a magic wand and fix this horrendous shit sandwich of an offense you've lost your mind.

ETA - Oh yeah, the early 1990's called Norv. They want their offense back.


SD:

My mothers dead Husband could come in here and do better , Weeden looked better Sunday , just like Dos looked better than all that shit previously , but I'm talking XP .

Your just happy to see printing that isn't written on stone in Caves and lauding about how modern you look .

The dynamics of team building and espri de corp , don't start with the likes of Beetle Bailey .


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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:45 am

mattvan1 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Who's Kelly Unitas?


gloss for Kelly Holcomb, who when compared to Tim Couch "played like Johnny Unitas"

At least according to some peeps back in the day.

Right Soul? ;-) ;) :wink:


SD:

Let me tell ya something , and its just between us , and the prissy pants cherries in aisle three, for the record.

Way back when you was still shittin yalla in a galaxy far far away , some numbnuts in this universe dared challenged my eye on the issue of QB's in particular on one Timothee Couch, and these heathens just about busted a gut holding their pee in glee when I authored the heresy prior to our last Playoff game , that the offense would not only be fine under Holcomb , that we would see a far superior effort of execution and efficiency due to his familiarity with Arians system .

That was on the eve of the game before the game .

So to their regret , , they had to eat shit and like it when Holcomb far exceeded my praise , and launched the most prolific expose of timing and touch passes before receivers made their break to spots on the field defeating a defense under tremendous pressure , which hadn't been displayed to such refinement since the great Johnny Unitas .

, Kelley Unitas is their terse derisive rejoinder to me calling out their idol Couch before the game as a Nekid Bitch emperor , it made em feel better and took their mind off the fact they ate their own shit, while they returned their heads to their holes in the ground or up their own asses , whichever they could reach first , with the same nonsensical rejoiners you want to use as an excuse for Weedens shit QB play.

We can't tell how bad he is because of all the other problems .

Child Puhleeze .


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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:24 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I am the greatest QB talent elevator blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

with the same nonsensical rejoiners you want to use as an excuse for Weedens shit QB play.

We can't tell how bad he is because of all the other problems .

Child Puhleeze .


SoulDawg


Reading is fundamental, dude. I know your modding your ass off over at the other place, where Pure Football died about 10 years ago and has now been overtaken by posters (a few notable exceptions) who hang on every word that comes outta Chuck Booms mouth, but over here I have yet to read a single post by anyone who is using that dumpster fire of an offense as an excuse to try and salvage hope that Weeden is the man.

My point - The indictment is on the entire O, including pretty much every position AND the coaches.

Weeden is such an easy target, but the problems run far far deeper than the ginger headed one. Don't let your hatred of #3 blind you to just how bad that offense is right now.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:51 am

motherscratcher wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:Take it like a man , because ain't shit we can do about it until we either trade for Cousins , or grab one of Bridgewater Tahge , or possibly the Pac twelve dandies at Oregon or UCLA , that is unless you like your toast buttered with Manzel in the morning .

SoulDawg



Unfortunately, I think the defense is too good, and as bad as the O has looked, there is too much potential with guys like JC, Gordon and (yes) TRich to suck our way to the top this year. Again. :pb:

What do you think of Manziel SD?


SD:

Impressive College numbers against College DB's .

Average arm , with a good , not great deep ball .

Has a punky leadership demeanor likened to Jim McMahon, and is one of those guys you can't fully explain , because they get the job done , when they are set up to fail .

Lacks discipline , but has the ability to make plays , (at this level ) not convinced he can do it consistently with a bullet like a Russell Wilson at the next level , because of that lack of discipline , but mostly because of that lack of a legit NFL arm .

He could operate a Chinese fire drill offense , with big fast targets to throw too when things broke down and a fast running backs to bail him out, can't entirely rule him out with the NFL rules change , and the Chip Kelley invasion still taking place .

Prefer four other guys ahead of him , right now , myself and wouldn't be at all upset if the Browns passed on Tebow light in as far as the publicity is concerned.

Can only hope Jacksonville gets suckered into that dust leaving us Bridgewater .

Yeah that's gonna happen.


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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:06 am

mattvan1 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I am the greatest QB talent elevator blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

with the same nonsensical rejoiners you want to use as an excuse for Weedens shit QB play.

We can't tell how bad he is because of all the other problems .

Child Puhleeze .


SoulDawg


Reading is fundamental, dude. I know your modding your ass off over at the other place, where Pure Football died about 10 years ago and has now been overtaken by posters (a few notable exceptions) who hang on every word that comes outta Chuck Booms mouth, but over here I have yet to read a single post by anyone who is using that dumpster fire of an offense as an excuse to try and salvage hope that Weeden is the man.

My point - The indictment is on the entire O, including pretty much every position AND the coaches.

Weeden is such an easy target, but the problems run far far deeper than the ginger headed one. Don't let your hatred of #3 blind you to just how bad that offense is right now.


SD:

Two things .

Don't ever edit one of my posts .

You want to comment on it do so , but you have no license to change even a comma or a misspelled word i author.

Number two .

I don't hate Weeden it ain't his fault he's a useless putz , dude should never have been drafted , because Tanneyhill was the clear correct choice after the RG3 missive .

Weeds had no value before the third round, as an option unless you should be shut out from QB's not able to draw their social security before there first game check.

Point three , I clearly stated if the front office was so stupid as to be predisposed to make such a stoopid pick as an ex Hill billy failed baseball player , that was 103 years old on the day you draft him , said pick should be hedged with the follow up choice of Russell Wuilson in the third , .

This insanity is nothing new , it goes back to Rottenberger being passed along to the inbred, while were waiting in year three for Gaycia and Tims lightbulb to come on .

What happened to that team when they played him and Cowher sat his luv child Kordelia down.

Fuck .............

But we coulda had Mike Vick for nothing ............

Just stop it already.

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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:16 am

FUDU wrote:OK, JB ,for discussions sake. Let's say we earn one of the top two picks in the 2014 draft, and we get one of the sure fire can't miss QB prospects.

Do you think Chud/Norv can actually utilize this franchise savior in such a way as to finally make a difference and put us on the map? Do you think they can adapt an offense for this stud so the team can survive and succeed in the new NFL? Or are they just gonna plug him into what we have now, and work out his bugs over 2 years?



Really FUDU - I don't have a clue.

I think Chud can. He did some stuff with Cam. IDK from Norv but my guess is that the spread is just X's and O's and principles that he's smart enough to incorporate if he wants/is directed. His kid may be a Kyle Shanahan sort.

I think the bigger challenge would be the position coaches and if the players fit the scheme. They'd have to be taught. Thee OLmen have to be quick and have stamina. The skilled players stupid speed.

Trent doesn't fit but Lewis did.

Need new WRs.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:19 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Who's Kelly Unitas?


gloss for Kelly Holcomb, who when compared to Tim Couch "played like Johnny Unitas"

At least according to some peeps back in the day.

Right Soul? ;-) ;) :wink:


SD:

Let me tell ya something , and its just between us , and the prissy pants cherries in aisle three, for the record.

Way back when you was still shittin yalla in a galaxy far far away , some numbnuts in this universe dared challenged my eye on the issue of QB's in particular on one Timothee Couch, and these heathens just about busted a gut holding their pee in glee when I authored the heresy prior to our last Playoff game , that the offense would not only be fine under Holcomb , that we would see a far superior effort of execution and efficiency due to his familiarity with Arians system .

That was on the eve of the game before the game .

So to their regret , , they had to eat shit and like it when Holcomb far exceeded my praise , and launched the most prolific expose of timing and touch passes before receivers made their break to spots on the field defeating a defense under tremendous pressure , which hadn't been displayed to such refinement since the great Johnny Unitas .

, Kelley Unitas is their terse derisive rejoinder to me calling out their idol Couch before the game as a Nekid Bitch emperor , it made em feel better and took their mind off the fact they ate their own shit, while they returned their heads to their holes in the ground or up their own asses , whichever they could reach first , with the same nonsensical rejoiners you want to use as an excuse for Weedens shit QB play.

We can't tell how bad he is because of all the other problems .

Child Puhleeze .


SoulDawg



Daddy, tell us the story of Charlie Frye having "it" again. Plllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?

We love that one!
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:22 am

mattvan1 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I am the greatest QB talent elevator blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

with the same nonsensical rejoiners you want to use as an excuse for Weedens shit QB play.

We can't tell how bad he is because of all the other problems .

Child Puhleeze .


SoulDawg


Reading is fundamental, dude. I know your modding your ass off over at the other place, where Pure Football died about 10 years ago and has now been overtaken by posters (a few notable exceptions) who hang on every word that comes outta Chuck Booms mouth, but over here I have yet to read a single post by anyone who is using that dumpster fire of an offense as an excuse to try and salvage hope that Weeden is the man.

My point - The indictment is on the entire O, including pretty much every position AND the coaches.

Weeden is such an easy target, but the problems run far far deeper than the ginger headed one. Don't let your hatred of #3 blind you to just how bad that offense is right now.



Booms?

I thought it was Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter...
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:24 am

mattvan1 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:Weeden has turned the most QB friendly system you can run into a monkey fucking a football ,

They've got it so dumbed down now for Weeden to execute it, DA would be likened to a RHodes scholar.


And this is just horseshit. Look, I don't like Weeden, you don't like Weeden, no one likes Weeden.

The offense is limited because you have a RT who should be playing RG, the starting RG who should be driving a truck, a Number 1 WR who might be lucky to land a spot on a CFL roster, no FB and not a single TE who can block. And a rookie HC who seems incapable of making ANY in game adjustments with respect to pass pro. It probably doesn't help that the OL coach makes Jim Bollman look like Alex Gibbs.

So scapegoat Weeden all you want, but if you think Bridgewater or Boyd or the ghost of Kelly Unitas are coming in here next year to wave a magic wand and fix this horrendous shit sandwich of an offense you've lost your mind.

ETA - Oh yeah, the early 1990's called Norv. They want their offense back.


SSDD.

Change the QB and all is magically better.

The multiple choice "all of the above" remains elusive going on decade 2.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:28 am

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:
Randy cared what fans thought- a lot. He changed course, coaches, GM's, you name it several times based on fan reaction. he even "unfired" Phil savage.

Remains to be seen how Haslam and banner react.... or to your point, do not.


I think it is more dangerous to make moves / changes to appease the fans than to ignore the fans.

These fans aren't leaving. If losing the team and 14 years of suck doesnt break the fan-base, nothing will.

Besides, Banner views himself as the smartest guy in the room -- he won't waver from his Plan.


http://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/index.ssf/2013/09/city_anticipates_cleveland_bro.html

heh.

Double Heh.

They'd better start worrying about vox populi. As sure as SD spews about QB as panacea there will be a smart pol pandering to the angry Browns fans masses. You take it from there.

If the org wants to max revenue they'd better strat winning. And these changes aren't for "fan experience". They will be to max revenue.

Would love to see Polencik or some dooosh like that pass a law that says no discretionary funds outside of what is contractually due without a playoff appearance.

That person coule run for County Commish and win on that platform alone.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:37 am

jb wrote:Here's their fatal mistake: They botched the evaulation conditions by allowing a few holes that hve created fatal flaws to actually evaluate. That's what FA's are for - to solidly fill any area you can not address over the long haul so you can evaluate the alleged talent. Solidify the right way and you can see if you can really evaluate. Otherwise, your evaluation process will be flawed and you can't really tell what you have.


FAs like Kruger, Bryant, and Bess?

The meltdown is easy. We thought Heckert had left them with a stocked roster, it turned out that he left a half-empty six-pack in the fridge and that there were more reasons than SHUR that this team couldn't get past the five win hurdle. Sure, the brain trust should have brought in a few more blockers, and they shouldn't have been left with Lauvao and Marecic to begin with. The roster has more holes than the Costa Concordia and it took 18 months to get that sucker upright.

So instead they puff up the team's chances because Lee Elia never sold tickets and cross their fingers that a Weeden-led offense can paper over the holes. Well, whoops, that ain't happening. Oh well. Teddy Bridgewater here we come!
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:44 am

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
jb wrote:Here's their fatal mistake: They botched the evaulation conditions by allowing a few holes that hve created fatal flaws to actually evaluate. That's what FA's are for - to solidly fill any area you can not address over the long haul so you can evaluate the alleged talent. Solidify the right way and you can see if you can really evaluate. Otherwise, your evaluation process will be flawed and you can't really tell what you have.


FAs like Kruger, Bryant, and Bess?

The meltdown is easy. We thought Heckert had left them with a stocked roster, it turned out that he left a half-empty six-pack in the fridge and that there were more reasons than SHUR that this team couldn't get past the five win hurdle. Sure, the brain trust should have brought in a few more blockers, and they shouldn't have been left with Lauvao and Marecic to begin with. The roster has more holes than the Costa Concordia and it took 18 months to get that sucker upright.

So instead they puff up the team's chances because Lee Elia never sold tickets and cross their fingers that a Weeden-led offense can paper over the holes. Well, whoops, that ain't happening. Oh well. Teddy Bridgewater here we come!



Dre - I thought about this. I really did.

The roster, such as it blows chunx, is now a Holmgren / Mangini situation.

Banner was here for a full season last year. So was Lombardi. they now own the roster of underperforming players. If they chose to make 2013 their evaluation year rather than the 2012 season they were here, you know, watching these guys, it's theirs.

Kruger was a good signing and brought into transition the D to a 3 - 4. same with Mug Shot. End reult of letting Juqua and moving Shear in the 3 - 4 = stasis.

Bess is a guy the 'phins no longer wanted because they actually upgraded their receivers.

Don't hold up Chancey Stucky II as a pivotal FA signing.

If lavao and Pink were actually good, solid NFL starters I'd be far more sympathetic to injuries causing the OL issues. If they went into 2013 relying on thiose guys even at perfect health? No pass from me. They aren't even "meh". They were Cousins lite.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:47 am

Bess was traded for if I recall correctly. Draft pick to Dolphins.

Not that it matters overall, but for integrity's sake.... ;-)
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:00 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Don't ever edit one of my posts .

You want to comment on it do so , but you have no license to change even a comma or a misspelled word i author.


SoulDawg


Duly noted.

In turn, all I ask is that when you respond directly to one of my posts, you stop misrepresenting my POV.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:13 am

jb wrote:
JacksonDysonJackson wrote:
Randy cared what fans thought- a lot. He changed course, coaches, GM's, you name it several times based on fan reaction. he even "unfired" Phil savage.

Remains to be seen how Haslam and banner react.... or to your point, do not.


I think it is more dangerous to make moves / changes to appease the fans than to ignore the fans.

These fans aren't leaving. If losing the team and 14 years of suck doesnt break the fan-base, nothing will.

Besides, Banner views himself as the smartest guy in the room -- he won't waver from his Plan.


http://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/index.ssf/2013/09/city_anticipates_cleveland_bro.html

heh.

Double Heh.

They'd better start worrying about vox populi. As sure as SD spews about QB as panacea there will be a smart pol pandering to the angry Browns fans masses. You take it from there.

If the org wants to max revenue they'd better strat winning. And these changes aren't for "fan experience". They will be to max revenue.

Would love to see Polencik or some dooosh like that pass a law that says no discretionary funds outside of what is contractually due without a playoff appearance.

That person coule run for County Commish and win on that platform alone.


What a joke.

Leash gets shorter in year two.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:17 am

mattvan1 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
Don't ever edit one of my posts .

You want to comment on it do so , but you have no license to change even a comma or a misspelled word i author.


SoulDawg


Duly noted.

In turn, all I ask is that when you respond directly to one of my posts, you stop misrepresenting my POV.



For the record, if anyone wants to correct my misspellings, have at it.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:46 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Who's Kelly Unitas?


gloss for Kelly Holcomb, who when compared to Tim Couch "played like Johnny Unitas"

At least according to some peeps back in the day.

Right Soul? ;-) ;) :wink:


SD:

Let me tell ya something , and its just between us , and the prissy pants cherries in aisle three, for the record.

Way back when you was still shittin yalla in a galaxy far far away , some numbnuts in this universe dared challenged my eye on the issue of QB's in particular on one Timothee Couch, and these heathens just about busted a gut holding their pee in glee when I authored the heresy prior to our last Playoff game , that the offense would not only be fine under Holcomb , that we would see a far superior effort of execution and efficiency due to his familiarity with Arians system .

That was on the eve of the game before the game .

So to their regret , , they had to eat shit and like it when Holcomb far exceeded my praise , and launched the most prolific expose of timing and touch passes before receivers made their break to spots on the field defeating a defense under tremendous pressure , which hadn't been displayed to such refinement since the great Johnny Unitas .

, Kelley Unitas is their terse derisive rejoinder to me calling out their idol Couch before the game as a Nekid Bitch emperor , it made em feel better and took their mind off the fact they ate their own shit, while they returned their heads to their holes in the ground or up their own asses , whichever they could reach first , with the same nonsensical rejoiners you want to use as an excuse for Weedens shit QB play.

We can't tell how bad he is because of all the other problems .

Child Puhleeze .


SoulDawg



I can tell this is the high point of your entire life.
Fuck the Browns...
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:54 am

mattvan1 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
Luuuuuuuuuuuke! Luke Mc-COWN! I coulda been your FAH-THA!

SoulDawg


Duly noted.

Apropos of nothing, I recall something I once learned when conversing with the great Daryll Clark. I'd told him about someone on the internet who tried to revoke my God given internet rights to joshing discourse--I believe the precise issue was the classic quotey-switcheroo, pretty standard stuff, really--and Daryll told me, "Fuck that shit, Matty Toes. You stick that shit right back in his eye." "Even in an 'adult conversation' thread?" I asked. "Yeah, even the fuck there," he insisted. "And by the way, in case you've forgotten, Mr. Toes, I went undrafted in the NFL, and I never made an NFL roster as a UDFA. I was not a good QB. Also, who the fuck spells Daryll this way? No wonder I sucked."


^what Matty Toes meant to type.
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...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:58 am

HoodooMan wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
Luuuuuuuuuuuke! Luke Mc-COWN! I coulda been your FAH-THA!

SoulDawg


Duly noted.

Apropos of nothing, I recall something I once learned when conversing with the great Daryll Clark. I'd told him about someone on the internet who tried to revoke my God given internet rights to joshing discourse--I believe the precise issue was the classic quotey-switcheroo, pretty standard stuff, really--and Daryll told me, "Fuck that shit, Matty Toes. You stick that shit right back in his eye." "Even in an 'adult conversation' thread?" I asked. "Yeah, even the fuck there," he insisted. "And by the way, in case you've forgotten, Mr. Toes, I went undrafted in the NFL, and I never made an NFL roster as a UDFA. I was not a good QB. Also, who the fuck spells Daryll this way? No wonder I sucked."


^what Matty Toes meant to type.


Oh snap...
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:10 am

Another question JB, would you agree that the NFL has pretty much dictated the requirements of a college QB if he wanted life in the NFL (I assume you'd agree), for say the last infinity years?

If you do agree then I would imagine you'd have to agree that tide has turned and it appears that now college is dictating what type of QB the NFL should be looking for.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:13 am

FUDU wrote:Another question JB, would you agree that the NFL has pretty much dictated the requirements of a college QB if he wanted life in the NFL (I assume you'd agree), for say the last infinity years?

If you do agree then I would imagine you'd have to agree that tide has turned and it appears that now college is dictating what type of QB the NFL should be looking for.



Yep.

I think college OCs are the new soon-to-be hot commodity.
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Re: Let's have an adult conversation about the Browns

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:28 am

So then it only makes sense that a team, like ours, gets on board with an offense that best fits what college is putting out as a QB product.

IOW, at least IMO bye bye Norv, and get your degree Weedens of the world.
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