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Come the Gold Rush

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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:18 am

If a QB looks like a horse and plays for a team named after a horse FUDU gets wood!
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:34 am

Pfft, I've always hated Elway.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:08 am

Hiko : Hurr:: Hiko : Durr

What do you know from petty insults?
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:40 am

FUDU wrote: That offense is as much about the run as it is the pass, and the NFL is about the pass.


Not really. The NFL is about big chunks of yardage and scoring points. Today (well, at least before Monday night) nearly everyone believed you had to pass to take advantage of The Manning Rules and the easiest way to make big plays and score was to wing it around. Which means you needed a top tier QB, or at least a decent QB who got hot at the right time (Flacco).

Now, maybe not so much. The point is not whether this is new and revolutionary (I mean maybe it is and maybe it isn't - who cares?) the point is

jb wrote:Again, to the point that there can now be more than one way to skin a cat without sucking and praying a franchise QB drops from the heavens.


and

e0y2e3 wrote:You don't need Braxton/RG3 to run these spread concepts. The entire point of the Meyer spread is to create numbers advantages by forcing the defense to have to account for multiple players in each look. Kelly's concepts aren't that different. If you have a QB athletic enough to keep the backside DE at home you have a QB that can run the spread.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby pup » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:56 am

We need to stop acting like the QB's that have been and will continue to be successful with the "new thing" aren't capable of standing in the pocket and beating you. They can all throw the ball just as well as they can run it.

Colt McCoy is athletic enough to occupy the defensive end. Tim Tebow is athletic enough to occupy the defensive end.

This isn't some magic potion to mitigate the importance of the QB.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:02 am

pup wrote:We need to stop acting like the QB's that have been and will continue to be successful with the "new thing" aren't capable of standing in the pocket and beating you. They can all throw the ball just as well as they can run it.

Colt McCoy is athletic enough to occupy the defensive end. Tim Tebow is athletic enough to occupy the defensive end.

This isn't some magic potion to mitigate the importance of the QB.

I'm not sure anyone is actually saying that, I'd say most (of us) are actually recognizing the fact that almost all of these young athletic QB in the game right now CAN just stand back there and throw the football.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:18 am

pup wrote:We need to stop acting like the QB's that have been and will continue to be successful with the "new thing" aren't capable of standing in the pocket and beating you. They can all throw the ball just as well as they can run it.

Colt McCoy is athletic enough to occupy the defensive end. Tim Tebow is athletic enough to occupy the defensive end.

This isn't some magic potion to mitigate the importance of the QB.


You still have to be able to throw it - as SF did against GB last week when 85 year old Dom Capers figured out how to stop Kaepernick's running but couldn't quite stop him from throwing it to Bolden. Yes, and you need talent too.

But maybe, just maybe, you can now find a guy in Round 2 or Round 3 as opposed to needing to tank a season or trade 2 1st Round picks to get a franchise savior.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:48 am

jb wrote:Hiko : Hurr:: Hiko : Durr

What do you know from petty insults?


Thank you, that gave me a good laugh. :thumb up:
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:11 am

pup wrote:We need to stop acting like the QB's that have been and will continue to be successful with the "new thing" aren't capable of standing in the pocket and beating you. They can all throw the ball just as well as they can run it.

Colt McCoy is athletic enough to occupy the defensive end. Tim Tebow is athletic enough to occupy the defensive end.

This isn't some magic potion to mitigate the importance of the QB.


If your QB can't throw and the entire secondary is playing on the line of scrimmage that whole numbers advantage thing get kinda thrown out the window.

The point is to force the D to have to account for everyone on the field at all times (thus the immediate bubble screen checks, etc). Kinda need a QB that can do both for that.

And when you can spread the D out and they have to account for a QB with running ability you open up the inside/outside zone plays and you get a performance like Shady had Monday night. That's the entire crux of the concept.

This is why the lack of weapons and Brax's lack in throwing development last year had OSU running a pro-based scheme out of spread formations instead of a true Meyer spread.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:14 am

mattvan1 wrote:
FUDU wrote: That offense is as much about the run as it is the pass, and the NFL is about the pass.


Not really. The NFL is about big chunks of yardage and scoring points. Today (well, at least before Monday night) nearly everyone believed you had to pass to take advantage of The Manning Rules and the easiest way to make big plays and score was to wing it around. Which means you needed a top tier QB, or at least a decent QB who got hot at the right time (Flacco).

Now, maybe not so much. The point is not whether this is new and revolutionary (I mean maybe it is and maybe it isn't - who cares?) the point is

jb wrote:Again, to the point that there can now be more than one way to skin a cat without sucking and praying a franchise QB drops from the heavens.


and

e0y2e3 wrote:You don't need Braxton/RG3 to run these spread concepts. The entire point of the Meyer spread is to create numbers advantages by forcing the defense to have to account for multiple players in each look. Kelly's concepts aren't that different. If you have a QB athletic enough to keep the backside DE at home you have a QB that can run the spread.


This is a good summary.

Also clearly points out why I think it's not long for the NFL - I don't think any offense not predicated around excellent QB play will be sustainable. The reason that the offensive concepts from the dawn of football went out of vogue in the first place is that teams realized that the forward pass was a much more effective way to get from point A to point B, and if they had a QB that could throw it well instead of just run, then they could use that to their advantage.

And using a hurry-up offense to maximize the number of plays run and keep the D off-balance is as old a concept as the human soul.

But I'm sure that the reason I don't buy into Chip "revolutionizing" the NFL is because I'm Amish.

I'm glad it's here since it will be an interesting contrast to most of today's offenses, even though I doubt it has staying power beyond a couple years at this level.

I also think it'll be successful in Philly so long as Vick stays healthy since Vick IS a talented QB, especially when he's running an offense that doesn't require him to think a lot. That offense won't be successful with an army of mobile, crap-QB's like Tebow.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:16 am

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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:21 am

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
FUDU wrote: That offense is as much about the run as it is the pass, and the NFL is about the pass.


Not really. The NFL is about big chunks of yardage and scoring points. Today (well, at least before Monday night) nearly everyone believed you had to pass to take advantage of The Manning Rules and the easiest way to make big plays and score was to wing it around. Which means you needed a top tier QB, or at least a decent QB who got hot at the right time (Flacco).

Now, maybe not so much. The point is not whether this is new and revolutionary (I mean maybe it is and maybe it isn't - who cares?) the point is

jb wrote:Again, to the point that there can now be more than one way to skin a cat without sucking and praying a franchise QB drops from the heavens.


and

e0y2e3 wrote:You don't need Braxton/RG3 to run these spread concepts. The entire point of the Meyer spread is to create numbers advantages by forcing the defense to have to account for multiple players in each look. Kelly's concepts aren't that different. If you have a QB athletic enough to keep the backside DE at home you have a QB that can run the spread.


This is a good summary.

Also clearly points out why I think it's not long for the NFL - I don't think any offense not predicated around excellent QB play will be sustainable. The reason that the offensive concepts from the dawn of football went out of vogue in the first place is that teams realized that the forward pass was a much more effective way to get from point A to point B, and if they had a QB that could throw it well instead of just run, then they could use that to their advantage.

And using a hurry-up offense to maximize the number of plays run and keep the D off-balance is as old a concept as the human soul.

But I'm sure that the reason I don't buy into Chip "revolutionizing" the NFL is because I'm Amish.

I'm glad it's here since it will be an interesting contrast to most of today's offenses, even though I doubt it has staying power beyond a couple years at this level.

I also think it'll be successful in Philly so long as Vick stays healthy since Vick IS a talented QB, especially when he's running an offense that doesn't require him to think a lot. That offense won't be successful with an army of mobile, crap-QB's like Tebow.


You're an apple butter eating barn raiser. You don't wear zippers.

Admit it.

That's the part IO find .... IDK.... amusing.

Its working and I hear it won't work.

It works with the puppies.

It works on Fridays.

It dominates saturdays.

I've seen elements gingerly adopted on Sunday for 2 seasons now, and they've worked.

Chip went whole hog and lo and behold it worked.

At some point the evidence will be irrefutable. Up to one to judge where they fall on the scale of what constitutes that.

The only thing we're really talking about anymore is one's position on the adoption curve.

used to be the ONLY way to win was rushing and defense. Then it became franchise QB flag football. This is the alternative to havcing a franchise QB or not applying.

Does anyone, even Eye, this Wilson is better in a vacuum than Andrew Luck? Seriously?

You have the equalizer. You are seeing it and not beliving your eyes out of bias.

Circling back, if you are the Browns and you have maybe 3 or 4 serviceable offensive players and you have to tear down/rebuild, why the hell WOULDN'T you go this route?
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:21 am

Hikohadon wrote:Also clearly points out why I think it's not long for the NFL - I don't think any offense not predicated around excellent QB play will be sustainable. The reason that the offensive concepts from the dawn of football went out of vogue in the first place is that teams realized that the forward pass was a much more effective way to get from point A to point B, and if they had a QB that could throw it well instead of just run, then they could use that to their advantage.


This is the most amish view of the spread offense ever written, so yeah JB's right.

You're just nuts if you think a concept based on running if not enough players are in the box, passing if the safety cheats up, passing if the LB cheats out, etc is going to fade anytime soon.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:25 am

If Russell WIlson were three inches taller he'd have been considered the exact same prospect as horse-face.

Seriously? Did anyone watch Horse Face play last year? Pick every 1.1 attempts. When he stops doing that you can all talk about how awesome he is.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:27 am

e0y2e3 wrote:If Russell WIlson were three inches taller he'd have been considered the exact same prospect as horse-face.

Seriously? Did anyone watch Horse Face play last year? Pick every 1.1 attempts. When he stops doing that you can all talk about how awesome he is.



He is awesome because he's Ollie Luck's kid, so let's just get that established.

But seriously, no BS, if you had a choice for the next decade of Drew or Russ, you;re going with Russ?
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:31 am

Right now if I have to win a game I take Russ and don't even blink.

Horse Face has great upside (mainly because he's taller than Russ and stuff) and obviously he's the higher ceiling prospect because of such, but I honestly haven't seen enough out of him to show that his upside overcomes Russ' general winning. I probably go horse-face because Russ is almost 25 or some crap and I'd hate to see Peeker have another QB's age keep him up at night.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:33 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Right now if I have to win a game I take Russ and don't even blink.

Horse Face has great upside (mainly because he's taller than Russ and stuff) and obviously he's the higher ceiling prospect because of such, but I honestly haven't seen enough out of him to show that his upside overcomes Russ' general winning. I probably go horse-face because Russ is almost 25 or some crap and I'd hate to see Peeker have another QB's age keep him up at night.



Height no longer matters. They aren't prospects anymore. They are NFL players.

Russ? PLAYA!No denigration intended at all.

Drew is still better.

The system makes the difference. Russ has a better system to show his talents.

More open dudes.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:34 am

I will say this about this pistol spread stuff we're seeing right now. It is legit to question the impact and longevity of this approach if these QB run too much and cannot stay on the field. It's not a huge issue right now, and who knows if it will be. But you take these specific QBs currently residing over those said offenses out of the game and those offenses will flatten out big time.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:35 am

Yeah, Sydney Rice and Golden Tate strike fear in the heart of secondaries everywhere.....

Luck would have thrown a pick every .5 attempts with those two as his WR.

You're really going to rip on the Ariens spread now? LOL. Big Ben never had Luck's throw 55,000 picks in a year problems.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:36 am

e0y2e3 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Also clearly points out why I think it's not long for the NFL - I don't think any offense not predicated around excellent QB play will be sustainable. The reason that the offensive concepts from the dawn of football went out of vogue in the first place is that teams realized that the forward pass was a much more effective way to get from point A to point B, and if they had a QB that could throw it well instead of just run, then they could use that to their advantage.


This is the most amish view of the spread offense ever written, so yeah JB's right.

You're just nuts if you think a concept based on running if not enough players are in the box, passing if the safety cheats up, passing if the LB cheats out, etc is going to fade anytime soon.


Yes, like that's not the concept of every fucking offense ever.

There will be a handful of teams with QB's capable of running this offense, and they already run versions of it in SF, SEA, and WAS (well, they did run it in WAS until their star QB got leveled and now they want to protect him).

There are a bunch of teams that have more drop-back passer types at QB, and they would be stupid to run it since it doesn't fit their skill set. No need to have the Aaron Rodgers and Tom Bradys of the world risk themselves to present the "threat" of the run when the "threat" of their pass is more than enough.

When/if the QB's that can both pass and run effectively (in any offense) start going down on routine running plays because players that can actually catch/hurt them exist in the NFL (the type they never had to face on Fridays or Saturdays) then we'll see how long teams keep using it.

Because I continue to maintain that no matter how mobile he is, a QB that isn't also a good passer will not last. And QB's that are both good runners and passers aren't a dime a dozen because then everyone would have one or two. And then, yes, everyone would run a hybrid of this offense.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:37 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Yeah, Sydney Rice and Golden Tate strike fear in the heart of secondaries everywhere.....

Luck would have thrown a pick every .5 attempts with those two as his WR.



Image

Really - I got nothing else on this....
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:37 am

jb wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Right now if I have to win a game I take Russ and don't even blink.

Horse Face has great upside (mainly because he's taller than Russ and stuff) and obviously he's the higher ceiling prospect because of such, but I honestly haven't seen enough out of him to show that his upside overcomes Russ' general winning. I probably go horse-face because Russ is almost 25 or some crap and I'd hate to see Peeker have another QB's age keep him up at night.



Height no longer matters. They aren't prospects anymore. They are NFL players.

Russ? PLAYA!No denigration intended at all.

Drew is still better.

The system makes the difference. Russ has a better system to show his talents.

More open dudes.


Um not to mention Drew wins. Dude took an unknown team to 11 wins.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:40 am

Hikohadon wrote:Because I continue to maintain that no matter how mobile he is, a QB that isn't also a good passer will not last. And QB's that are both good runners and passers aren't a dime a dozen because then everyone would have one or two. And then, yes, everyone would run a hybrid of this offense.



I stand in awe of your genius.

Show me where anyone suggests retard robinson uses this offense to win on Sunday? Sum zero is the last bastian position of the Amish.

If Vick could hit the broad side of a bard Philly woulda hung 60.

There are more BCS programs running spread to pro by what? A 10 to 1 margin? Maybe 20 - 1.

The pipeline is wide open for prospects that can both run and pass. Now every racial barrier is overturned finally and you have kids playing QB that as recent as less than a decade ago aren't playing QB. AND there is less competition for them in the NFL. Or at least there was until RG3.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:41 am

FUDU wrote:
jb wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Right now if I have to win a game I take Russ and don't even blink.

Horse Face has great upside (mainly because he's taller than Russ and stuff) and obviously he's the higher ceiling prospect because of such, but I honestly haven't seen enough out of him to show that his upside overcomes Russ' general winning. I probably go horse-face because Russ is almost 25 or some crap and I'd hate to see Peeker have another QB's age keep him up at night.



Height no longer matters. They aren't prospects anymore. They are NFL players.

Russ? PLAYA!No denigration intended at all.

Drew is still better.

The system makes the difference. Russ has a better system to show his talents.

More open dudes.


Um not to mention Drew wins. Dude took an unknown team to 11 wins.



Didn't Seattle win 12 games?

Donny, you're out of your element.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:43 am

Despite FUDU's slurrping last year's Colts team was about as impressive as the 2007 Borwns except with way more talent at WR.

I honestly gotta ask, has anyone in this forum watched a full Colts game? Like ever?
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:56 am

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Because I continue to maintain that no matter how mobile he is, a QB that isn't also a good passer will not last. And QB's that are both good runners and passers aren't a dime a dozen because then everyone would have one or two. And then, yes, everyone would run a hybrid of this offense.



I stand in awe of your genius.

Show me where anyone suggests retard robinson uses this offense to win on Sunday? Sum zero is the last bastian position of the Amish.

If Vick could hit the broad side of a bard Philly woulda hung 60.

There are more BCS programs running spread to pro by what? A 10 to 1 margin? Maybe 20 - 1.

The pipeline is wide open for prospects that can both run and pass. Now every racial barrier is overturned finally and you have kids playing QB that as recent as less than a decade ago aren't playing QB. AND there is less competition for them in the NFL. Or at least there was until RG3.


What, not all the spread QB's are gonna have the throwing ability of Aaron Rodgers? Shucks.

You need to relax on the reacharound you're giving the Eagles right now - when Washington stopped turning the ball over and going three and out, they looked downright ordinary.

You may be right about the pipeline - maybe 10 years from now the league will be just chock-full of RG3's. Naturally, that would change the overall scheme of attack, especially if you have a couple RG3's in reserve if your first RG3 gets hurt (which he will).

In the end, one of the beauties about RG3 is that he can run ANY offense well, so if you're populating the league with RG3's it won't have much to do with the spread.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:01 am

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Because I continue to maintain that no matter how mobile he is, a QB that isn't also a good passer will not last. And QB's that are both good runners and passers aren't a dime a dozen because then everyone would have one or two. And then, yes, everyone would run a hybrid of this offense.



I stand in awe of your genius.

Show me where anyone suggests retard robinson uses this offense to win on Sunday? Sum zero is the last bastian position of the Amish.

If Vick could hit the broad side of a bard Philly woulda hung 60.

There are more BCS programs running spread to pro by what? A 10 to 1 margin? Maybe 20 - 1.

The pipeline is wide open for prospects that can both run and pass. Now every racial barrier is overturned finally and you have kids playing QB that as recent as less than a decade ago aren't playing QB. AND there is less competition for them in the NFL. Or at least there was until RG3.


What, not all the spread QB's are gonna have the throwing ability of Aaron Rodgers? Shucks.

You need to relax on the reacharound you're giving the Eagles right now - when Washington stopped turning the ball over and going three and out, they looked downright ordinary.

You may be right about the pipeline - maybe 10 years from now the league will be just chock-full of RG3's. Naturally, that would change the overall scheme of attack, especially if you have a couple RG3's in reserve if your first RG3 gets hurt (which he will).

In the end, one of the beauties about RG3 is that he can run ANY offense well, so if you're populating the league with RG3's it won't have much to do with the spread.



here's where we are missing on not on wavelength.

I see the innovations changing the pre-requisite of the standard of QB required for a highly functioning offense changing with this new scheme.

I still read about needing an Aaron Rogers.

Not suere there's any ground uncovered.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:01 am

hiko the point is that if Dennis Dixon (pre knee-shredded variety) comes out in 2014 he gets a legit shot in the NFL. He doesn't get to sit and rot behind Big Ben in Pitt and then end up out of the league.

Plenty of Dennis Dixon types have been ignored by teh No Fun League and now they won't be.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:01 am

I've watched plenty of Colts games last year, which is again why it is that much more impressive what Drew brings to the table.

Hiko, Kaeper is just as capable of running ANY offense as well, or have you not seen him sit back and pick defenses apart in the past 11 months?
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:03 am

^ liar
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:08 am

e0y2e3 wrote:^ liar


You're the one who claims I'm a Colts fan...
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:08 am

e0y2e3 wrote:hiko the point is that if Dennis Dixon (pre knee-shredded variety) comes out in 2014 he gets a legit shot in the NFL. He doesn't get to sit and rot behind Big Ben in Pitt and then end up out of the league.

Plenty of Dennis Dixon types have been ignored by teh No Fun League and now they won't be.



But they will be, at least for the next several years in the adoption cycle by the Hiko sect of the Amish resisting the change and drafting the next round of Brandon Weedons and reaching on average pocket passers.

The window of opportunity is now open on the adoption curve.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:13 am

Hell, next years QB class is as good a class as we've seen outside of RGIII/Wilson/HorseFace and the dual threat to pocket passer ratio is at least 3:1.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:14 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Hell, next years QB class is as good a class as we've seen outside of RGIII/Wilson/HorseFace and the dual threat to pocket passer ratio is at least 3:1.



I'm tryin to tell yah.... somewhere Conledge Holloway is watching like Moses watching the Isaraelites crossing the river Jordan.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby Triple-S » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:18 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Hell, next years QB class is as good a class as we've seen outside of RGIII/Wilson/HorseFace and the dual threat to pocket passer ratio is at least 3:1.


Who are you liking best?

Is Boyd worth a damn?

Trying to pick out who's going to be the 2nd best option out there because a.) The Jags are getting the first pick. b.) They are not sticking to Blaine Gabbert as their starting QB.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:20 am

Triple-S wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Hell, next years QB class is as good a class as we've seen outside of RGIII/Wilson/HorseFace and the dual threat to pocket passer ratio is at least 3:1.


Who are you liking best?

Is Boyd worth a damn?

Trying to pick out who's going to be the 2nd best option out there because a.) The Jags are getting the first pick. b.) They are not sticking to Blaine Gabbert as their starting QB.



5 years ago Mariotta is converted to WR. This year he's a 1st rounder.

Taj is the shit.

Gimme either in a spread over the goofs from bama & uga.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:20 am

Boyd, Hundley, Mariotta...

Just not Johnny Needs Kicked In The Dick
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby Triple-S » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:37 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Boyd, Hundley, Mariotta...


Good. We have 3 possible alternative plans to Ted. (Assuming he's the best QB in this draft..)

I don't want to settle for the 2nd or 3rd choice this time. I want to settle for 1A., 1B, or 1C.

Don't go cheap. Don't go for the Weeds option. I don't care if you have give up 3 first rounders. Get me one of those guys and we can start talking about something other than who's our starting QB.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:38 am

FUDU wrote:I've watched plenty of Colts games last year, which is again why it is that much more impressive what Drew brings to the table.

Hiko, Kaeper is just as capable of running ANY offense as well, or have you not seen him sit back and pick defenses apart in the past 11 months?


I stated that same thing earlier. He can run any system, they choose to use him in a pass-first system where he has probably only 2-3 designed runs per game. He would probably be fine in a more traditional spread or a drop-back don't-leave-the-pocket offense too.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:41 am

I hear Hiko is a big Derek Carr fan....

just sayin'
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:41 am

e0y2e3 wrote:hiko the point is that if Dennis Dixon (pre knee-shredded variety) comes out in 2014 he gets a legit shot in the NFL. He doesn't get to sit and rot behind Big Ben in Pitt and then end up out of the league.

Plenty of Dennis Dixon types have been ignored by teh No Fun League and now they won't be.


Not sure I buy that, if you can play, most teams will find a way to use you. Dixon maybe got drafted by the wrong team, or maybe he just didn't have the passing skills.

Why do we give a shit about the Dennis Dixons of the world again?
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:46 am

Hikohadon wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:hiko the point is that if Dennis Dixon (pre knee-shredded variety) comes out in 2014 he gets a legit shot in the NFL. He doesn't get to sit and rot behind Big Ben in Pitt and then end up out of the league.

Plenty of Dennis Dixon types have been ignored by teh No Fun League and now they won't be.


Not sure I buy that, if you can play, most teams will find a way to use you. Dixon maybe got drafted by the wrong team, or maybe he just didn't have the passing skills.

Why do we give a shit about the Dennis Dixons of the world again?


Because you can draft them in the 5th round?

If you have the foresight and balls to run "a college offense" in the NFL.

Which the Browns do not and Norv will not/cannot so yeah, I guess we really don't care.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:47 am

Dixon doesn't tear his knee in half he wins the heisman that year and in a 2014 world is a top two round prospect.

But your point holds in that you don't have to trade 55 first round picks and draft The Guy at #2 overall.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:48 am

jb wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:hiko the point is that if Dennis Dixon (pre knee-shredded variety) comes out in 2014 he gets a legit shot in the NFL. He doesn't get to sit and rot behind Big Ben in Pitt and then end up out of the league.

Plenty of Dennis Dixon types have been ignored by teh No Fun League and now they won't be.



But they will be, at least for the next several years in the adoption cycle by the Hiko sect of the Amish resisting the change and drafting the next round of Brandon Weedons and reaching on average pocket passers.

The window of opportunity is now open on the adoption curve.


You make it sound like I wouldn't want one of those guys. I'd give my right... pinky toenail... to have a QB like Kap. I'd love to have a legit running threat at QB.

Hell, 13 years ago I was all over the Spurgeon Wynn Potential train since I was glad we "finally" got a running threat QB. But dude couldn't hit water if he fell out of fucking boat. Fail.

See, I still believe that guys like Kap are special talents rather than about to become the norm. A lot of those guys that you bemoan not getting a chance just aren't very good passers.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:51 am

<-- just had some weird Dante Culpepper flashback experience
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:53 am

mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:hiko the point is that if Dennis Dixon (pre knee-shredded variety) comes out in 2014 he gets a legit shot in the NFL. He doesn't get to sit and rot behind Big Ben in Pitt and then end up out of the league.

Plenty of Dennis Dixon types have been ignored by teh No Fun League and now they won't be.


Not sure I buy that, if you can play, most teams will find a way to use you. Dixon maybe got drafted by the wrong team, or maybe he just didn't have the passing skills.

Why do we give a shit about the Dennis Dixons of the world again?


Because you can draft them in the 5th round?

If you have the foresight and balls to run "a college offense" in the NFL.

Which the Browns do not and Norv will not/cannot so yeah, I guess we really don't care.


Well then you people should stop making such a big deal about them so we can keep drafting them in the 5th. Then run a college offense that won't work because if the guy had any passing ability he would've been drafted in the 1st or 2nd.

It's sneaky genius! And no one in the NFL except Chip Kelly is smart enough to see it!
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:53 am

e0y2e3 wrote:<-- just had some weird Dante Culpepper flashback experience


he was a runner just like Sperg.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:58 am

Hikohadon wrote:Well then you people should stop making such a big deal about them so we can keep drafting them in the 5th. Then run a college offense that won't work because if the guy had any passing ability he would've been drafted in the 1st or 2nd.

It's sneaky genius! And no one in the NFL except Chip Kelly is smart enough to see it!


This must be why I don't read any of you and Peeker's fights.

Well this and not caring anymore about The Ginger than I do junk mail.
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:58 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Dixon doesn't tear his knee in half he wins the heisman that year and in a 2014 world is a top two round prospect.

But your point holds in that you don't have to trade 55 first round picks and draft The Guy at #2 overall.


Yep. I'm not naive enough to say that all the "mobile" QB's got fair shots, but it's also not like Steve McNair was a 5th round pick. It's more common now, but I don't think there was ever a time that teams shunned good passers because they could run.

(Enter Warren Moon to set me straight... even though he couldn't really run.)
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Re: Come the Gold Rush

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:58 am

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:hiko the point is that if Dennis Dixon (pre knee-shredded variety) comes out in 2014 he gets a legit shot in the NFL. He doesn't get to sit and rot behind Big Ben in Pitt and then end up out of the league.

Plenty of Dennis Dixon types have been ignored by teh No Fun League and now they won't be.


Not sure I buy that, if you can play, most teams will find a way to use you. Dixon maybe got drafted by the wrong team, or maybe he just didn't have the passing skills.

Why do we give a shit about the Dennis Dixons of the world again?


Because you can draft them in the 5th round?

If you have the foresight and balls to run "a college offense" in the NFL.

Which the Browns do not and Norv will not/cannot so yeah, I guess we really don't care.


Well then you people should stop making such a big deal about them so we can keep drafting them in the 5th. Then run a college offense that won't work because if the guy had any passing ability he would've been drafted in the 1st or 2nd.

It's sneaky genius! And no one in the NFL except Chip Kelly is smart enough to see it!


Why weren't Wilson and Kaepernick drafted higher then? Both can throw, obviously.
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