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09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

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09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:56 pm

It's about time we got the game threads going again..... I've been lurking on the site whilst watching the games the past week or so, reluctant to start a game thread because I've had a pretty poor record starting them.

But, we need to pick up the activity around these parts..... I take full responsibility if we lose.

Kazmir Vs Wheeler

Let's go Tribe!
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:59 pm

Brantley scratched from the starting lineup due to the impending birth of his child.

CF Bourn
1B Swisher
2B Kipnis
DH Santana
LF Kubel
SS Cabrera
C Gomes
3B Chisenhall
RF Stubbs

LHP Kazmir
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:49 pm

Sac flies in the first two innings puts the Tribe on top 2-0.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby cappy1920 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:18 pm

What's up Daz?

I've been keeping up and missing the threads; it's like nobody cares any longer.

Nevertheless, I'm resigned to the fact that we just don't have enough of the pieces in place and this won't be the end of our World Series drought. This has been an enjoyable year in comparison to the last few...
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:21 pm

Nah we're not gonna win it all, but at least September is actually interesting for the first time in 6 years.

If we do what we should do with this remaining schedule, then maybe we can sneak into the post-season and see how it all shakes out.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby cappy1920 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:34 pm

I'd be cool to go on one of those winning streaks at the right time.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:59 pm

Kazmir cruising along and Ks the side in the 6th to give him a season high 12 on the night.

Be interesting to see if he's back out for the 7th at 97 pitches.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby cappy1920 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:15 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Be interesting to see if he's back out for the 7th at 97 pitches.



Guess not.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:21 pm

Kazmir the first Indians LHP to have 12Ks and 0BBs in a game for 22 years (Swindell in '91).
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:53 pm

Slam for Swisher to break the game open!!

Just minutes after Napoli slammed the Yankees to tie the Bos-NY game at 8.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby hebner20 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:57 pm

Nice performance by Kazmir. How many in the prog tonight enjoying dollar dog night and a good performance by the tribe?
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:04 pm

Ballgame..... 8-1 Tribe win.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:09 pm

hebner20 wrote:Nice performance by Kazmir. How many in the prog tonight enjoying dollar dog night and a good performance by the tribe?


15,962...... on a Friday night with dollar dogs against a team from NY..... that's still pitiful!
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby hebner20 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:36 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
hebner20 wrote:Nice performance by Kazmir. How many in the prog tonight enjoying dollar dog night and a good performance by the tribe?


15,962...... on a Friday night with dollar dogs against a team from NY..... that's still pitiful!

I agree that is a lame attendance figure. Oh well Friday night H.S. football might be taking its toll. Probably on their way to mid to upper 80 wins, good for them.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:40 pm

Kazmir was outstanding. Indians missed a lot of chances early in the game, but Swisher finally put it out of reach.

In other news, I'm 95% sure that this won't happen, but Francona needs to consider sitting Cabrera down and going with Aviles. From what I recall, Cabrera made three outs with runners on base off of the first pitch. I could be wrong and I'll double check when Fangraphs/B-Ref put up the play-by-play from the game, but that's inexcusable. He's been worth 0.2 WAR this season. There's a stat called "WPA", which stands for Win Probability Added. It's a metric that shows how much a player helped him team on an individual play basis. Entering tonight, Cabrera's was -1.74. That's the 9th-worst mark among 174 qualified players. The annual average is around 1.0.

Fangraphs describes WPA as a "storytelling" statistic, since it has little predictive value to the future (debunking the myth about players being "clutch"), but it accurately shows how much or how little a player helped in big situations. I've said numerous times to friends and I've probably said it on here that Cabrera is killing this team. There's the statistical proof.

I'm sure it would ruffle some feathers in the clubhouse and that's the last thing Francona wants to do right now, but at least Aviles plays with energy and does the little things (productive outs). Cabrera and Aviles entered tonight with identical wOBAs. That's not good for Cabrera, considering Aviles has never really been able to hold down a starting gig.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:56 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Kazmir was outstanding. Indians missed a lot of chances early in the game, but Swisher finally put it out of reach.

In other news, I'm 95% sure that this won't happen, but Francona needs to consider sitting Cabrera down and going with Aviles. From what I recall, Cabrera made three outs with runners on base off of the first pitch. I could be wrong and I'll double check when Fangraphs/B-Ref put up the play-by-play from the game, but that's inexcusable. He's been worth 0.2 WAR this season. There's a stat called "WPA", which stands for Win Probability Added. It's a metric that shows how much a player helped him team on an individual play basis. Entering tonight, Cabrera's was -1.74. That's the 9th-worst mark among 174 qualified players. The annual average is around 1.0.

Fangraphs describes WPA as a "storytelling" statistic, since it has little predictive value to the future (debunking the myth about players being "clutch"), but it accurately shows how much or how little a player helped in big situations. I've said numerous times to friends and I've probably said it on here that Cabrera is killing this team. There's the statistical proof.

I'm sure it would ruffle some feathers in the clubhouse and that's the last thing Francona wants to do right now, but at least Aviles plays with energy and does the little things (productive outs). Cabrera and Aviles entered tonight with identical wOBAs. That's not good for Cabrera, considering Aviles has never really been able to hold down a starting gig.


Not sure this is worth the trouble when you need Aviles to avoid a cipher at third base.

The argument in this scenario ILO, isn't whether Aviles will outperform Cabrera this month, it's whether Cabrera will outperform third base.

Taking a step back, it ain't all that great that Mike Friggin' Aviles is the lead dog in this debate.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:00 am

leadpipe wrote:Not sure this is worth the trouble when you need Aviles to avoid a cipher at third base.

The argument in this scenario ILO, isn't whether Aviles will outperform Cabrera this month, it's whether Cabrera will outperform third base.

Taking a step back, it ain't all that great that Mike Friggin' Aviles is the lead dog in this debate.


Agree on all counts. Francona just has to do whatever will give them any kind of edge. Given Cabrera's performance, Aviles might be an upgrade. Sad state of affairs, but now's not the time to worry about being in that position. Just do what's best.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:07 am

At this point, I'm thinking that maybe this offseason, they should make Aviles the everyday SS and trade Cabrera for whatever it takes, even if his value is so seriously diminished that it doesn't net the team any significant prospects or pieces...i.e., salary relief. The ship sailed on getting a good return when they decided to keep him last offseason. Now, with his extremely sucky season and looming free agency, he's not worth nearly as much in a trade (and if he's traded anytime after next season starts, his acquiring team can't get a compensatory pick thanks to the CBA), further limiting our leverage. Lindor's coming soon, we've got Aviles, Droobs is a black hole of suck who will be gone in one year regardless, etc. I hate to sell low, but there's no way at this point to sell high. He's making 10 million next season...maybe his biggest contribution can be in using that money to bring in a bat or extend Masterson, two bigger needs. The team would probably have to pick up some of that to help him on his way, but whatever it takes.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:39 pm

Thanks for starting a thread daz. You got us a win - now keep it up. ;-) ;) :wink: I started the last one for the entire Detroit series, and you know what happened there...Image



cappy1920 wrote:What's up Daz?

I've been keeping up and missing the threads; it's like nobody cares any longer.

Nevertheless, I'm resigned to the fact that we just don't have enough of the pieces in place and this won't be the end of our World Series drought. This has been an enjoyable year in comparison to the last few...

I said basically the same thing in the "John Heyman" thread:

Just look at THIS place! We used to have a thread for every game, lots of posts, some of them actually quality comments...and now? Nothing. Not even a thread per series. I don't know about the rest of you (all three that will look at this thread) but I listen to nearly every game all game. But it's not worth coming around here for every game if the people who can add informative comments in-game don't come around - I'm usually here just to read and suck up a little knowledge.

Unless they go completely into the toilet in the next 3.5 weeks they'll have an above-.500 season. Haven't been at .500 or above for since 2006. Plus this team is actually pretty likeable. And even die-hard Tribe fans can't gather to share in the excitement. Sad state of affairs for this team and their hometown...


I listen all the time, but I'm usually busy making supper or cleaning up or something. I'm making a big dish of shepherd's pie tonight (with beef) so you'll all welcome to come over and eat. :pop:
I've tried 'em all, I really have, and the only church that truly feeds the soul, day in, day out, is the Church of Baseball.~~~Annie Savoy-"Bull Durham"
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:30 pm

Cabrera may have a career year next season since he's playing for a contract. That laziness he exhibits on a nightly basis will miraculously be gone.

Keep him. He has plenty of value to rebuild. Think he has a huge year. Let him walk afterwards.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby Dellucci TailGator » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:09 am

skatingtripods wrote:Cabrera may have a career year next season since he's playing for a contract. That laziness he exhibits on a nightly basis will miraculously be gone.

Keep him. He has plenty of value to rebuild. Think he has a huge year. Let him walk afterwards.


Agree completely. Here's my amateur psychology take on him: he got mad when there was talk of trading him. Next year, he'll be playing to get out of here. His approach with RISP is the worst I've seen of any player this year. Seems like he'd figure out after an entire season that they're going to throw him a change-up five feet off the plate and he'd put the bat on his shoulder just once.

WHen he's going good, he was a guy who was a good two-strike hitter who fouled off good pitches. Now he seems petrified of even getting down 0-1 in the count...which he is anyways after he flails at that change-up.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:18 am

Dellucci TailGator wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Cabrera may have a career year next season since he's playing for a contract. That laziness he exhibits on a nightly basis will miraculously be gone.

Keep him. He has plenty of value to rebuild. Think he has a huge year. Let him walk afterwards.


Agree completely. Here's my amateur psychology take on him: he got mad when there was talk of trading him. Next year, he'll be playing to get out of here. His approach with RISP is the worst I've seen of any player this year. Seems like he'd figure out after an entire season that they're going to throw him a change-up five feet off the plate and he'd put the bat on his shoulder just once.

WHen he's going good, he was a guy who was a good two-strike hitter who fouled off good pitches. Now he seems petrified of even getting down 0-1 in the count...which he is anyways after he flails at that change-up.


The question would be, if you go down this route, would you then offer him a qualifying offer to get FA Draft Pick compensation?

If he has a great year, he'd be looking for a multi-year deal, so part of you thinks he won't take it. But, if he does then the Indians would be on the hook for paying him ~$13.5m in 2015 in a year when they're going to want to probably move on to Lindor.

Obviously, if you don't offer it, then you get nothing in return when he leaves.

If he has a great year next year then I think I probably would offer it on the basis that he'll hopefully hit the market looking for 4 years+ at $10m+ per year.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:13 am

dazindiansfanuk wrote:The question would be, if you go down this route, would you then offer him a qualifying offer to get FA Draft Pick compensation?

If he has a great year, he'd be looking for a multi-year deal, so part of you thinks he won't take it. But, if he does then the Indians would be on the hook for paying him ~$13.5m in 2015 in a year when they're going to want to probably move on to Lindor.

Obviously, if you don't offer it, then you get nothing in return when he leaves.

If he has a great year next year then I think I probably would offer it on the basis that he'll hopefully hit the market looking for 4 years+ at $10m+ per year.


If he has a 3+ WAR season, his last four seasons would be 3.5, 2.8, ~0 (currently -0.2, so a below average player), and 3. In that span, 11 other SS would have accumulated 9+ WAR. That's going by Fangraphs. So he still should have value to a team in need of a SS. WAR in FA tends to be around 5M per win. Since Cabrera is inconsistent, injury prone, and lazy, we'll assume that teams would peg him somewhere between 2.5 and 3 WAR over a multi-year deal, so right around that $12-13M mark with the concerns about him.

I think you'd take the chance of offering him compensation for the draft pick because he'll find a multi-year deal on the market. If he takes it, you can always trade him to a team looking for a one-year stop gap at SS and let them figure it out the following year.

Since Lindor's not ready yet, you keep him and hope he bounces back. If he doesn't, you simply cut ties and let him sink or swim in FA. If he does, extend the qualifying offer and hope like hell somebody gives him 3/36.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:42 pm

Oh, I fully expect him to bounce back nicely next year, even more so if we went and traded him. I was speculating mostly from a financial standpoint. Next year, Reynolds and Myers are obviously off the books, Ubaldo most likely also will be, and very possibly Perez, as well. If Cabrera leaves via trade as well, that starts to leave pretty decent amount of money to play with. There will be raises--Swisher and Bourn both get a bump, along with our arbitration eligible players--but it would still leave a sizable amount. After the fans failed to really come out this year, I don't know that the Dolans would extend next year's payroll as high, but there still could be room to extend someone like Masterson and bring in a player via trade, since next year's free agent market isn't too impressive. (Then again, there's this Cuban kid, Jose Abreu, who could be something special. He's attracting all kinds of attention and could very easily be out of our price range, but he could be a real steal for us if we managed to nab him.)

This is what I meant by trading Cabrera, even if it is a case of selling low. It would give the team a chance to reshuffle the financial deck a little, and allocate some money toward players who look to be here after next year, which clearly isn't Cabrera. I'm just saying there's advantages to both ways they would approach Cabrera in the off-season.
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Re: 09/06/2013 - Indians host Mets - Need a sweep

Unread postby hebner20 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:39 pm

hebner20 wrote:
dazindiansfanuk wrote:
hebner20 wrote:Nice performance by Kazmir. How many in the prog tonight enjoying dollar dog night and a good performance by the tribe?


15,962...... on a Friday night with dollar dogs against a team from NY..... that's still pitiful!

I agree that is a lame attendance figure. Oh well Friday night H.S. football might be taking its toll. Probably on their way to mid to upper 80 wins, good for them.


Wow, 14 games over .500in sept. and heading for 92 wins. Over 162 game schedule that is very impressive. Swisher was a non factor and Bourne disappointed but some nice surprises. Ubaldo? What is up with that. Kazmir, arm dangling by a thread and looking impressive none the less. What happens in 2014? Regression to 82 wins or another 90 win season? Thoughts?
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