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Browns roster talent level 2013

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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby gameface » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:21 pm

I've read this forum for years, I read the Tap Room and ATI and OBR Football. I see your posts all the time and still enjoy your smarts and wit. But if you think I'm stalking you, you flatter yourself.

And I dig you taking the high road, just bring a GPS because its' prolly uncharted territory for ya.

You quipped, I quipped back. If I need a membership card to post here, let me know and I'll fill out an application.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:49 pm

gameface wrote:And I dig you taking the high road, just bring a GPS because its' prolly uncharted territory for ya.



OK, now that is funny.

Post wherever / whenever you want. I reserve the right to be an ass on line like as in the Constitution as my right.

Like I said, I really don't want to get drug down into the past. So I want to let all the banter on this go. I've addressed, poked, and that's all you'll get from me on gary's, errrr, your forum. ;-)
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby gameface » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:28 pm

Fair enough. And thanks for the lovely parting gift.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby pod2dawg » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:48 pm

GF, Bros don't let JB get under your skin. Get thicker skin. JB is an arrogant condescending f%^^cking genius. Often time I have to look shit up when he goes off on a tirade. He knows his shit and is funny as Hell. Don't take nothing personal here man.

Its all good. We are on the same team. Sure we have no kicker, Guards, best receiver chuggin dank, QB on stilts with tunnel vision, only one Corner and a Safety which woulda been good in the 60"s....but it's entertainment.

Hang in there stir the pot.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby gameface » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:56 pm

pod2dawg wrote:GF, Bros don't let JB get under your skin. Get thicker skin. JB is an arrogant condescending f%^^cking genius. Often time I have to look shit up when he goes off on a tirade. He knows his shit and is funny as Hell. Don't take nothing personal here man.

Its all good. We are on the same team. Sure we have no kicker, Guards, best receiver chuggin dank, QB on stilts with tunnel vision, only one Corner and a Safety which woulda been good in the 60"s....but it's entertainment.

Hang in there stir the pot.


Appreciate the advice, but you're preaching at the choir. JB and I go way back. I don't need google to understand his posts, just a rap discogrpahy. Not melting, more like amused by it all.

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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:00 pm

I can't remember so much roster maneuvering in the week leading up to an opener. Probably has happened before but I can't think of when.

I was truly surprised with the release of Brandon Jackson, TE Kellen Davis and LJ Fort.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/browns-rel ... --nfl.html

Dennis Johnson- http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ ... id=2539936

BOTTOM LINE Despite being overshadowed by teammate Knile Davis for a large portion of his career, Johnson made a name for himself whenever he was given the opportunity to fill-in as the starter before eventually overtaking Davis at the top. Despite having a bit of a bowling-ball look to his game, Johnson’s burst and strength as a ball carrier not only helps him get tough yards as a runner (averaged 5.9 yards per carry in his career) but also break off chunks of real estate as a returner and receiver, which means he could prove to be a valuable mid-round pick as a regular contributor on offense and special teams. He may be the best third down back in college football.


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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:22 am

peeker643 wrote:I can't remember so much roster maneuvering in the week leading up to an opener. Probably has happened before but I can't think of when.

I was truly surprised with the release of Brandon Jackson, TE Kellen Davis and LJ Fort.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/browns-rel ... --nfl.html

Dennis Johnson- http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ ... id=2539936

BOTTOM LINE Despite being overshadowed by teammate Knile Davis for a large portion of his career, Johnson made a name for himself whenever he was given the opportunity to fill-in as the starter before eventually overtaking Davis at the top. Despite having a bit of a bowling-ball look to his game, Johnson’s burst and strength as a ball carrier not only helps him get tough yards as a runner (averaged 5.9 yards per carry in his career) but also break off chunks of real estate as a returner and receiver, which means he could prove to be a valuable mid-round pick as a regular contributor on offense and special teams. He may be the best third down back in college football.


Bobby Rainey- http://www.profootballweekly.com/prospe ... -rainey-3/



This is goin waaaaay back butt Lombardi & BB did the same thing for the first couple years in Lombardi V 1.0. I can't recall how many times cedric Figero was signed, cut, signed, cut.

I don't think we just released Cris Carter or jas Harrison. But my takeaway is anyone who bought into Slick Jimmuh's "we're gonna win now" raps is about to get a really loud alarm clock in 3...2...1.

The Browns are wafer thin and have already absorbed injuries. There is no depth. Jacskon was slow, but he knew the blitz pick ups and the hot routes. Fort knew where he was supposed to be on punt coverage. davis had stone hands but he'd played in many real NFL games. In the stead of these vets come what, 17 1st or 2nd year UDFA's with no clue about systems and schemes from OTAs or a TC here. Now we're in season. All reps are for game planning and scout team work. Injuries are inevitable in the NFL. It is only a matter of time until some depth players see live bullets. Odds are pretty likely these guys are going to be what they are: UDFA's with no experience and limited knowledge of the schemes and their assignments.

Now maybe Lombardi hits on a few in this revolving door. Great. But as far as on the fgield in 2013? Odds are good one of these chumps is going to blow a game, or worse, get a QB or TRich killed, when they see action inevitably.

If one can read this, this is a statement about where thsi team is and a willingness to flush 2013.

Win now my ass.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:05 am

I don't know how I'd feel if I experienced a front office that actually was trying to win now. It would be so irresponsible.

We are again building for the glorious future with the present as sacrificial virgin. And we've got the dynamic duo of Banner & Lombardi buying the groceries. Not sure how this plan could fail.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:41 am

Opie
ManKok
Walrus with Mangini

everybody gets a do-over, or at least the ability to use that excuse to "change the culture", "bring in their guys", "implement a new scheme" blah blah blah blah fucking blah

why should the current bunch of clowns be any different than the previous bunch of clowns?
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:56 am

mattvan1 wrote:Opie
ManKok
Walrus with Mangini

everybody gets a do-over, or at least the ability to use that excuse to "change the culture", "bring in their guys", "implement a new scheme" blah blah blah blah fucking blah

why should the current bunch of clowns be any different than the previous bunch of clowns?


They aren't. That's what's so depressing.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby pod2dawg » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:57 am

It is difficult to undo a decade of sheer idiocy. There is no quick fix....except maybe Teddy Bridgewater.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:19 pm

pod2dawg wrote:It is difficult to undo a decade of sheer idiocy. There is no quick fix....except maybe Teddy Bridgewater.


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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:18 pm

^to be followed by "Makey the Bedpoo for Jaboo" in 2014 and "SHOULDN'T BERNIE KOSAR HAVE A QB SON OF AGE BY NOW?!?!" thereafter.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:25 pm

pod2dawg wrote:It is difficult to undo a decade of sheer idiocy. There is no quick fix....except maybe Teddy Bridgewater.



We've been saying that shit for over a decade and we're still perpetually 3 years away.

So when does the clock start on that? Has it started yet?
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:27 pm

I'll say it again: Bridgewater, Boyd, Clowney...there's no way the Browns aren't picking 4th next year.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby pup » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:51 pm

Fer fricksake.

Cutting the last 4 clowns on a 53 and replacing them with someone else's clowns is reason to sound the alarm?

Stop it. They might go 5-11, but that isn't because Brandon Jackson was released.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:05 pm

pup wrote:Fer fricksake.

Cutting the last 4 clowns on a 53 and replacing them with someone else's clowns is reason to sound the alarm?

Stop it. They might go 5-11, but that isn't because Brandon Jackson was released.



When some damn fool rook UDFA gets the starting QB or TRich hospitalized I'm bringing this post back up, mmmkay McClain? :dingle:
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:40 pm

I like it. Even if there were some surprises, I like it.

Lombardi and Banner are clearly committed to improving the bottom of the roster, with the upside of potentially unearthing a diamond from the rough.

JB outlined the downside, but I'm with the Browns' thinking in my cost/benefit analysis.

But yea, it'd be a shame if Richardson missed any time this year ;)
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:06 pm

Personally, I could give a fuck less about flushing Brandon Jackson. If Hardesty & Lewis are healthy, he doesn't make the team anyway. Sure it was a surprise, but he's hardly a loss, and replacing him with some undrafted guy that has more potential is actually a good move (in the long run, of course, your #2 and #3 RB's have had the playbook for a week, so that first game might be kind of ugly with them understanding blocking assignments, etc.)

My beef with them is and has been that despite having a cap surplus they haven't even attempted to adequately address 2nd CB, 2nd S, 2nd TE, 2nd G, FB, P, & K. There's no way a team that is vying for the playoffs enters a season with such a shitload of project/developmental types at such key positions.

Oh, and their draft was incredibly underwhelming and clearly set up to benefit the team in the future.

So it's another year sacrificed to development.

Hard to drum up the excitement for that anymore.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:41 am

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:I like it. Even if there were some surprises, I like it.

Lombardi and Banner are clearly committed to improving the bottom of the roster, with the upside of potentially unearthing a diamond from the rough.

JB outlined the downside, but I'm with the Browns' thinking in my cost/benefit analysis.

But yea, it'd be a shame if Richardson missed any time this year ;)


My main concern is I think with the taint of stink not on this bunch they should have sold the farm to win now.

You can't place yet another regieme behind the 8 ball of rebuilding slowly. The few decent vets are going to turtle if there is a slow start and you won't get a bead on whathever talent may be there anyway because it won't develop.

Ortodoxy will only bring more of the same. They needed to change culture and you only get one chance. They are wasting it.

IDK BJ helps you do that, although in his last year with GB he's YPC was higher than TRich - just sayin' - but I know having UDFA rooks on the 2 deep and 17 on the roster while the team is waffer thin and already sustaining mid-season injuries won't.

The fan melt is always directly tied to expectations. This year is gonna be bad.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby justmebd » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:25 am

All I see is Banner lifting his leg and marking his territory on this roster.

That doesn't mean he made it better.

On paper, the Browns look like they could get seven wins because the AFC East is going to be a glorious disaster. We'll see what happens once the games start.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:03 pm

My main concern is I think with the taint of stink not on this bunch they should have sold the farm to win now.

You can't place yet another regieme behind the 8 ball of rebuilding slowly. The few decent vets are going to turtle if there is a slow start and you won't get a bead on whathever talent may be there anyway because it won't develop.


Maybe I'm not following, but are you talking about the cuts to 53 or the offseason that didnt net many solid vets?

Ortodoxy will only bring more of the same. They needed to change culture and you only get one chance. They are wasting it.


Oh, come on. Winning changes team culture and true leaders emerge. Signing Willie McGinest doesn't do squat except excite PD reporters to write puff pieces.

IDK BJ helps you do that, although in his last year with GB he's YPC was higher than TRich - just sayin' - but I know having UDFA rooks on the 2 deep and 17 on the roster while the team is waffer thin and already sustaining mid-season injuries won't.


I think you are talking about two different things. (1) Vet leadership and (2) talent. Not sure about #1 but Jackson doesn't have #2.

Rooks will give you bonehead plays, I agree, but I'll roll with some early season mistakes if the upside is actually netting a playa from the heap. You and I value different things.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:04 pm

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:
My main concern is I think with the taint of stink not on this bunch they should have sold the farm to win now.

You can't place yet another regieme behind the 8 ball of rebuilding slowly. The few decent vets are going to turtle if there is a slow start and you won't get a bead on whathever talent may be there anyway because it won't develop.


Maybe I'm not following, but are you talking about the cuts to 53 or the offseason that didnt net many solid vets?

Ortodoxy will only bring more of the same. They needed to change culture and you only get one chance. They are wasting it.


Oh, come on. Winning changes team culture and true leaders emerge. Signing Willie McGinest doesn't do squat except excite PD reporters to write puff pieces.

IDK BJ helps you do that, although in his last year with GB he's YPC was higher than TRich - just sayin' - but I know having UDFA rooks on the 2 deep and 17 on the roster while the team is waffer thin and already sustaining mid-season injuries won't.


I think you are talking about two different things. (1) Vet leadership and (2) talent. Not sure about #1 but Jackson doesn't have #2.

Rooks will give you bonehead plays, I agree, but I'll roll with some early season mistakes if the upside is actually netting a playa from the heap. You and I value different things.


Signing Willie Mc Ginnest is a waste.

Backing the Brinks truck up to the driveway of Courtland Finnegan like Corey Fuller until he cant say "no" (like Krueger) isn't.

Yes, winning changes culture. Not scrubs that used to win. That's why to start neither willie McGinnes.... or Taeshaun Toast Gibson.

The one common mistake I've seen the Re-boot FO's ALL make starting with Butch 2.0, Phil, mangini and H&H is that they all have years to change the culture and winning comes down the road after player development. Then by year 2 they are all hosed.

They needed to jump start. They blinked. But this time the fan base really bought into Jimmuh, Banner, Chud, the coordinators..... Joe Fan is gonna scream this time rather than be apathetic. The melt and butt hurt will be huge if they don't win in 2013. This board is different JMJ. It's jaded and negative. It ain't like that out there with the other fans.

They all think they can weather the storm. None actually do. The taint of stink gets attached and like to BO in Seinfeld's car there's nothing they can do.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:14 pm

Boy, I'd love to have Finnegan on this team. He embodies everything you want in a defensive player - speed, smarts, swag, and that nasty streak.

I get you now. I think Banner and Lombardi can be criticized for not doing more in FA. I would have liked another CB and another WR. Then again, it's not like they did nothing...

So what if the fans melt? You mean the stadium won't be full at kick-off? :) I don't understand why it matters what the fans think...if they win 6 games this year and jump to 9 or 10 next, all the hand wringing and teeth gnashing will be forgotten. As far as the team's culture? That can't be manufactured by murals in Berea or even off-season moves that bring in high profile players (remember 08 with Shawn Rodgers and Cory Williams). Flirt with or make the playoffs next year? There's your culture shift.

Winning cures all -- Banner and Lombardi have a plan to get there. Jury out, Proof in pudding, and all that stuff.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:09 pm

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Boy, I'd love to have Finnegan on this team. He embodies everything you want in a defensive player - speed, smarts, swag, and that nasty streak.

I get you now. I think Banner and Lombardi can be criticized for not doing more in FA. I would have liked another CB and another WR. Then again, it's not like they did nothing...

So what if the fans melt? You mean the stadium won't be full at kick-off? :) I don't understand why it matters what the fans think...if they win 6 games this year and jump to 9 or 10 next, all the hand wringing and teeth gnashing will be forgotten. As far as the team's culture? That can't be manufactured by murals in Berea or even off-season moves that bring in high profile players (remember 08 with Shawn Rodgers and Cory Williams). Flirt with or make the playoffs next year? There's your culture shift.

Winning cures all -- Banner and Lombardi have a plan to get there. Jury out, Proof in pudding, and all that stuff.


You are correct that if Banner & Co build it, the fans will come.

Might take a little while for them to buy in, as with the Tribe, but they'll eventually come back.

Now whether or not you have any faith that Banner & Co are remotely capable of achieving that is up to the individual.

PS to JB - not sure as many people "bought in" to the whole Jimmy/Joey/Mikey/Chud league of justice as you think. I personally thought they sucked from the beginning and expect nothing but more of the same from them, so the anger and burning that you expect might be replaced with mass yawning and sighing.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:27 pm

jb wrote:
This board is different JMJ. It's jaded and negative. It ain't like that out there with the other fans.


So other fans out there are more delusional and fucked up than we?

Totally sweet.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:52 am

mattvan1 wrote:
jb wrote:
This board is different JMJ. It's jaded and negative. It ain't like that out there with the other fans.


So other fans out there are more delusional and fucked up than we?

Totally sweet.


You are like Tosh O aren't you?

Trying to goad me into another throwaway comment and what's next? A blast out of the blue here from T-Dog on me? ;-) ;) :wink:

What I am saying is I wouldn't gage the level of cynicism from this board. I think Browns Nation is buying into expected change as a whole far more than this sample size here.

AND THATS ALL I'M SAYING (memo to lurkers). (inlove)
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:21 pm

jb wrote: What I am saying is I wouldn't gage the level of cynicism from this board. I think Browns Nation is buying into expected change as a whole far more than this sample size here.


And I think Browns Nation have lost touch with reality. Cynicism is the new pragmatism.

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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:20 pm

Uhhhh... just noticed that with Josh Gordon out, the Browns have only Greg Little, Devone Bess, Travis Benjamin, and Josh fucking Cooper at WR.

Yuuuuuuck.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:17 am

Not as good as Denver's.

Wowsa what a night from Sir Manning the GOAT
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:15 am

Erie Warrior wrote:Not as good as Denver's.

Wowsa what a night from Sir Manning the GOAT


SD:

The name is Joe Montana , the dude who has yet to throw a pick in the biggest of the biggest game.

4 - 0 vs Mr. 1 and done.


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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:27 am

Hikohadon wrote:Uhhhh... just noticed that with Josh Gordon out, the Browns have only Greg Little, Devone Bess, Travis Benjamin, and Josh fucking Cooper at WR.

Yuuuuuuck.



Greg Little is almost as good a Julio Jones.

Really, the WR situation is damn near unforgivable.

I hat eto go here, but what is Weeds supposed to do with..... this?
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:08 am

Straight from the horsey's pie hole:


Q: I've heard talk about a 3-5-year program, but Browns fans are sick of more long-term pledges. So what should people know about what you're doing here, and how soon should they expect to have a winning franchise?

Banner: "I think it's going to be obvious so that once we get playing, they won't need to ask the question. I think they'll see improvement immediately, though nobody realistically thinks we're ready to win a Super Bowl. And, at the risk of crossing the line, there have been a lot of people here over a lot of years who talked about long-term plans, but I haven't seen anybody who actually implemented that. They've been filling needs year by year, sometimes with expensive players who aren't that good. Everybody talked about a long-term plan, but when's the last time the team traded for a future draft pick? When's the last time the team said, 'We may not have position 'X' with the best player this year because there's nobody in the marketplace who's that good, and we don't want to waste all the future cap money just so we win six games instead of five?' So there's been a lot of cheap talk about long-term plans here, and I'm not talking last year. You go back 15 years through different administrations. They all have basically been trying to win now."

Q: So, then, are you asking fans to be patient?

Banner: "No. We are not asking for a free pass this year or any year. They should expect the team to be better. They should expect the team to play hard. They should expect it to be obvious that things are different. I'm happy being held to that standard, and I'm happy having everybody held to that standard. Listen, we were one of the most active teams in free agency this year in the league. That's not a long-term three-to-five-year plan. Now we did it with players who were 26-and-27-years old, so in two or three years when we're hoping to be really good they're still going to be good players. We didn't do it with 31-or-32-year-old players who, when we begin to get good, are going to be gone. For me, it's where are you in the continuum? If you're in the relatively early stages of building a Super Bowl-caliber team it doesn't make much sense to invest in 31-and-32-year-old players. We're going to have a three-to-five-year plan that doesn't mean you have to go back to winning two games to build it. We're going to do things so that, as the team really gets good two to three years from now, we're adding to the nucleus."


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/22286051/qa-joe-banner-ambitious-browns-ceo-attacks-challenging-rebuild

I'm not sure how a rational person can't buy into this.

Now -- execution of the plan? I'm Missouri.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:12 am

Wait, so if I'm to understand this correctly, what I've been watching for the last 15 years has been a "win now" approach to team building?

Shudders.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:58 am

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Straight from the horsey's pie hole:


Q: I've heard talk about a 3-5-year program, but Browns fans are sick of more long-term pledges. So what should people know about what you're doing here, and how soon should they expect to have a winning franchise?

Banner: "I think it's going to be obvious so that once we get playing, they won't need to ask the question. I think they'll see improvement immediately, though nobody realistically thinks we're ready to win a Super Bowl. And, at the risk of crossing the line, there have been a lot of people here over a lot of years who talked about long-term plans, but I haven't seen anybody who actually implemented that. They've been filling needs year by year, sometimes with expensive players who aren't that good. Everybody talked about a long-term plan, but when's the last time the team traded for a future draft pick? When's the last time the team said, 'We may not have position 'X' with the best player this year because there's nobody in the marketplace who's that good, and we don't want to waste all the future cap money just so we win six games instead of five?' So there's been a lot of cheap talk about long-term plans here, and I'm not talking last year. You go back 15 years through different administrations. They all have basically been trying to win now."

Q: So, then, are you asking fans to be patient?

Banner: "No. We are not asking for a free pass this year or any year. They should expect the team to be better. They should expect the team to play hard. They should expect it to be obvious that things are different. I'm happy being held to that standard, and I'm happy having everybody held to that standard. Listen, we were one of the most active teams in free agency this year in the league. That's not a long-term three-to-five-year plan. Now we did it with players who were 26-and-27-years old, so in two or three years when we're hoping to be really good they're still going to be good players. We didn't do it with 31-or-32-year-old players who, when we begin to get good, are going to be gone. For me, it's where are you in the continuum? If you're in the relatively early stages of building a Super Bowl-caliber team it doesn't make much sense to invest in 31-and-32-year-old players. We're going to have a three-to-five-year plan that doesn't mean you have to go back to winning two games to build it. We're going to do things so that, as the team really gets good two to three years from now, we're adding to the nucleus."


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/22286051/qa-joe-banner-ambitious-browns-ceo-attacks-challenging-rebuild

I'm not sure how a rational person can't buy into this.

Now -- execution of the plan? I'm Missouri.


They should expect it to be obvious that things are different. I'm happy being held to that standard, and I'm happy having everybody held to that standard.


I'm not sure how a rational person can buy into this.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:59 am

motherscratcher wrote:Wait, so if I'm to understand this correctly, what I've been watching for the last 15 years has been a "win now" approach to team building?

Shudders.


Right on.

BS.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby pup » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:07 pm

jb wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Wait, so if I'm to understand this correctly, what I've been watching for the last 15 years has been a "win now" approach to team building?

Shudders.


Right on.

BS.


Not sure what is BS in there. Isn't that exactly what each regime has done? Didn't everyone freak when Mangini filled the roster with vets that knew his way?

Wasting breath and all. Everyone thinks what they want to think. At least now we have an organization where the players aren't all first time doing their gig. Everything they have said they would do, they have done.

If Weeden is half as good as you were spewing on about 3 weeks ago, they will win 8 games. And set themselves up to improve on that going forward.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:12 pm

jb wrote:
I hat eto go here, but what is Weeds supposed to do with..... this?


Just win and make them better than the sum of their parts.

That's what legit, 1st RD NFL QBs do.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:22 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
I hat eto go here, but what is Weeds supposed to do with..... this?


Just win and make them better than the sum of their parts.

That's what legit, 1st RD NFL QBs do.



No, that's what franchise QB's do.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:19 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
I hat eto go here, but what is Weeds supposed to do with..... this?


Just win and make them better than the sum of their parts.

That's what legit, 1st RD NFL QBs do.



No, that's what franchise QB's do.


Then he should whine and cry that life ain't fair. Maybe make a shitload of excuses.

Or is that what his supporters and Browns fans in general will do?

He puts throws on hands and does what good QBs do, I think he'll be given a walk on that 'talent around him' thing. Seems to me people are more than willing to do that for the guy.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby Triple-S » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:50 pm

I've had enough of blaming talent.

There's more talent on this roster than anytime we've had since 1999.

It's on his shoulders and his shoulders alone. If he's not able to at least, he's done.

I don't think this is a BAD football team. It's just one (potentially) lacking the most important position in pro football. A good to great QB can mask a terrible secondary, bad guards or a whole number of problems on the team.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:57 pm

Not following you JB.

Banner says they (and "we" fans) should expect and see improvement in year 1 and continued improvement in years 2, 3, .....

He expects to be held accountable.

What's wrong with this thinking?

Were you expecting playoffs this year?
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:13 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
I hat eto go here, but what is Weeds supposed to do with..... this?


Just win and make them better than the sum of their parts.

That's what legit, 1st RD NFL QBs do.



No, that's what franchise QB's do.


Then he should whine and cry that life ain't fair. Maybe make a shitload of excuses.

Or is that what his supporters and Browns fans in general will do?

He puts throws on hands and does what good QBs do, I think he'll be given a walk on that 'talent around him' thing. Seems to me people are more than willing to do that for the guy.


EZ Hoss.

I'm no banging the drum Weeds is That Guy. I don't think he's shown he can be. I see him as more a high performing cog at ceiling -- if he hits that.

Tom Brady makes guys better. Brees exponentially builds up the sum of part.Ole Barndon's ceiling if he's lucky would be Matt Schaub.

You think those expectations are in place for him?

Really, other than Gordon, our WR's suuuuuuuuuuuuuck 'cept for maybe Bess -- we'll see. I have hope for him. Little? Bust. can't get open and can't catch. Benji? One trick pony -- if he give enough of a shit to make a play when ball in in the air. . Hatin' on Weedon; knob-gobbling on weedon; neither matters nothin. All is neutral.

You put a cog type QB in that and cast matters. What would say, dalton, look like with those guys instead of his WR'TE's?

See what I'm sayin? Thoughts?
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:25 pm

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Not following you JB.

Banner says they (and "we" fans) should expect and see improvement in year 1 and continued improvement in years 2, 3, .....

He expects to be held accountable.

What's wrong with this thinking?

Were you expecting playoffs this year?


Obvious that he's doing something differently.


What they doing differently?
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby pup » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:28 pm

jb wrote:
JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Not following you JB.

Banner says they (and "we" fans) should expect and see improvement in year 1 and continued improvement in years 2, 3, .....

He expects to be held accountable.

What's wrong with this thinking?

Were you expecting playoffs this year?


Obvious that he's doing something differently.


What they doing differently?


Acquiring picks instead of giving them away.
Not signing filler to make marginal improvements...and then not improving.

The front office is better.
The coaching staff is better.
The talent is better.

Where has this team gotten worse? Kicker? Playa please.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby jb » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:45 pm

pup wrote:
jb wrote:
JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Not following you JB.

Banner says they (and "we" fans) should expect and see improvement in year 1 and continued improvement in years 2, 3, .....

He expects to be held accountable.

What's wrong with this thinking?

Were you expecting playoffs this year?


Obvious that he's doing something differently.


What they doing differently?


Acquiring picks instead of giving them away.
Not signing filler to make marginal improvements...and then not improving.

The front office is better.
The coaching staff is better.
The talent is better.

Where has this team gotten worse? Kicker? Playa please.



I'm talking about 2013.

How does not picking players help?

How does Mike Lombardi improve any FO? Don't give me he's replacing heckert. Suck = suck even tho I don't buy into heckert = suck.

They cut FA's they signed like 3 months ago themselves. Not a great statement.

You have zero idea if they added filler or prospects. They dumped experience for UDFAs. Hope that works out for us long term becasue short term it doesn't.

I believe the coaching staff will be better on O. IDK about D. See also the Browns D vs the cards D last year, incl sacks. I need to see Big Bow Wow > Jauron. I need to see Chud coach one game as HC. Doubt he's worse than SHUR! but IDK if he's better.

Heckert:

Built for the long term via the draft even if he was aggressive in what he considered good drafts.

Sign very few FA's and leave a crapload of cap space.


Lombardi:

Built for the long term via the draft even if he was aggressive in what he considered good drafts.

Sign very few FA's and leave a crapload of cap space.

Really, zero different in approach.

All yah got is faith new guys are so much smarter than the old guys. Hope that work out for us.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:59 pm

Ledging before Game 1 is an interesting development.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:55 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
The name is Joe Montana , the dude who has yet to throw a pick in the biggest of the biggest game.

4 - 0 vs Mr. 1 and done.


Blasphemer. Manning is the GOAT.

And the Browns stink, but are favored on Sunday.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:07 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
I hat eto go here, but what is Weeds supposed to do with..... this?


Just win and make them better than the sum of their parts.

That's what legit, 1st RD NFL QBs do.



No, that's what franchise QB's do.


Then he should whine and cry that life ain't fair. Maybe make a shitload of excuses.

Or is that what his supporters and Browns fans in general will do?

He puts throws on hands and does what good QBs do, I think he'll be given a walk on that 'talent around him' thing. Seems to me people are more than willing to do that for the guy.


EZ Hoss.

I'm no banging the drum Weeds is That Guy. I don't think he's shown he can be. I see him as more a high performing cog at ceiling -- if he hits that.

Tom Brady makes guys better. Brees exponentially builds up the sum of part.Ole Barndon's ceiling if he's lucky would be Matt Schaub.

You think those expectations are in place for him?

Really, other than Gordon, our WR's suuuuuuuuuuuuuck 'cept for maybe Bess -- we'll see. I have hope for him. Little? Bust. can't get open and can't catch. Benji? One trick pony -- if he give enough of a shit to make a play when ball in in the air. . Hatin' on Weedon; knob-gobbling on weedon; neither matters nothin. All is neutral.

You put a cog type QB in that and cast matters. What would say, dalton, look like with those guys instead of his WR'TE's?

See what I'm sayin? Thoughts?


I'm not trying to be combative.

All I'm saying is that we'll be able to see if Weeden has improved or has a chance to be the guy here for any length of time regardless of what he's got around him. If he's making the right reads and getting in and out of sets/audibles/etc we'll see that.

I want to see him exert some form of leadership. I WANT to see a couple drops and see how he handles it. I want to see an OL miss an assignment and see how he handles it. We'll be able to see that regardless of whether(and more so IF) Little rounds off a route that results in an INT. Hopefully we'll see throws that only Cameron can catch regardless of whether he actually does or not.
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Re: Browns roster talent level 2013

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:44 pm

Great QB's make everyone on the team better to the point of being able to take a pack of Littles, Benjamins, Besses, and Coopers and win with them. There aren't many of those.

Middle of the pack QB's (the Daltons and Schaubs and, oh, a shit ton of other guys, lots of them first round picks) need really good talent around them to be effective. They don't win consistently with Littles, Benjamins, Besses, and Coopers.

Weeden isn't even middle of the pack yet, so handing him that deck of cards isn't conducive to anything except shitting the bed for Ted. Unless Richardson is transcendent, something I'll need to see to believe.

Gordon can't get back soon enough.
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