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Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

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Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby furls » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:58 pm

Its been a long time since I have wasted 10 minutes on a poorly researched piece of shit article as bad Knight's piece of dogshit on the front page right now.

I wish guys who have no idea how college sports economics and scheduling work would shut the fuck up. Does Knight realize that the real role of a football schedule is not to entertain the masses or game the system to championship, but it is to actually make enough money to offset the costs of the entire athletic budget?

Here is a quick lesson for Knight, should he read this post. Ohio State student tickets sell for about 36.00 each and they sell about 25K tickets to students for a per game revenue of 900K. 1,500 platinum seats bring in 675K per game, 1,000 gold seats bring in 312.5K per game, leaving 78K Public Tickets are 75-85 each, (call it 80) for another $6.24M. Add it all together and OSU's take from a home game is ~$8.13M (+ or - $.5MM or so).

When you schedule MAC (and other similar) teams, you do so from a position of advantage and you dictate terms. Therefore, OSU can offer Buffalo $1MM to play in Ohio Stadium and then Buckeyes can keep the rest of that money, so effectively OSU Nets $7.13M from the gate. If OSU plays VaTech (like it does next year) then they have to offer a home and home, costing the team 8.13 in revenue during the "road" year. Effectively making the gate from that series only worth $4M or so compared to $7M. Which makes more sense when you are trying to offset a $100MM athletic department budget? No shit, huh.

Next, scheduling... did you know that OSU had Vandy scheduled this year and that Vandy backed out at the last minute? Probably not. Did you know that the OSU/Cal home and home was scheduled when Aaron Rodgers was still the QB at Cal, Jeff Tedford was a rising coaching star and it looked like Cal was going to be a perennial powerhouse? Major home and homes are scheduled literally a decade in advance. Did you know that OSU is playing VaTech in 2014-15, Oklahoma 2016-2017, TCU 2018-2019, Oregon (and Boston College) 2020-2021 and Texas 2022-2023?

Probably not. Ohio State goes out of its way to try to schedule at least one elite national home and home every year. That is more than most schools do, the problem is that none of us has any idea how good Texas (or OSU for that matter) will be in 2022-2023.

Scheduling is ALL ABOUT $$$ not wins.
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Re: Crappy Article

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:02 pm

Not to mention the schedule gets noticeably tougher in the future (North Carolina, Cincy, Tulsa, all make appearances along with all the teams Furls mentioned) as Gene Smith is trying to game the playoff "commission". The BCS supported teams playing just for gate money, now teams have incentive to make the playoffs and get that big ass payout.

Scheduling has started and will continue to change all around.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby furls » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:08 pm

It was just a very bad article. The premise is flawed and easily refuted. There is no fact to it or even supporting detail. It is just a rambling, ill informed hatchet job by a guy who obviously has a very flawed impression of how NCAA sports are actually run.

I am saddened by the fact that I used to write on the same web page that posted this ill-informed drivel.

You know why OSU can toss Buffalo that relatively paltry sum and they will jump all over it? Because that is about 3X what they would've made off a home game against some other crappy team that would've demanded a home and home in exchange for it.

It is literally the worst article I have read in my 7 years contributing to this site either on the boards or on the front page. It is also the first time I have been publicly critical of an article on this site.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby furls » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:12 pm

Wonder if Knight knows that a single home game is actually worth more money to OSU than a national championship in terms of gate. I don't know what the licensing revenue would look like.

Last year's BCS champs got a $23.6MM payout. In the B1G (and most other conferences) that $23.6MM goes into a "Bowl Fund" from which each member gets a cut. So a BCS NCG appearance for OSU is only worth $2MM. Which is about $6MM less than OSU's total take for a home game including concessions, parking and misc.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:13 pm

It's a good thing you aren't an NBA fan then, because Amico (now starring at Fox Sports Ohio!) took suck to new levels.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:17 pm

Furls, you're always welcome to write an article that responds to something you see here. Your contributions would be welcome.

Hell, it doesn't have to be in response to anything. That kind of information you provided is welcome here in the forums but would be best served on the front page.

I know time is a consideration (believe me I know), but don't think your input isn't welcomed or wanted.

Nothing further from the truth.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:24 pm

The talk of getting OU for a home & home was going on back in 2004 & 2005 even before the kickoff of the first game v. Texas.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby furls » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:03 pm

It generally takes 10+ years to get a major team on the docket.

Actually, Andy Geiger is to be applauded for getting OSU on this path long ago when he kind of kicked this off with the University of Washington home and home (we got the home in 2003, they didn't get their game until 2007). That game was scheduled early in Geiger's tenure ~1994 when the Huskies were a legit power in the PAC 10. Since then, OSU has always tried to have a marquee game:

2003 UW
2004 supposed to be @UW, still got @NCSU
2005 UT
2006 @UT
2007 @UW
2008 @USC
2009 USC
2010 Miami
2011 @Miami
2012 Cal
2013 @Cal
2014 VT
2015 @VT (at night on Labor Day!)
2016 Oklahoma
2017 @Oklahoma, UNC
2018 @UNC, TCU
2019 @TCU
2020 Oregon
2021 @Oregon
2022 Texas
2023 @Texas

OSU had UGA on the slate at one point but that fell through (2018-19 I think). They were trying to get Tennessee in the late 90s but luckily that fell through (or the Buckeyes would be getting penalized for playing patsies). Very few schools have been as dedicated as OSU has been in developing these big games, unfortunately, at the time the games are being scheduled the kids that will play in them are still in 2nd-5th grade.

Next year they kick off with a neutral site game against Navy (Baltimore) then they have UCincy and VT at home. That is a decent schedule too, but who knows if VaTech will be a top 15 team. All you can do is schedule teams and hope for the best.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby danwismar » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:47 pm

You guys are tired of hearing me say it, I know...but as Furls has demonstrated...OSU has to take a back seat to NO ONE in terms of scheduling national powers in September non-conference games....for the decade leading up to today...and for almost a decade out into the future. Tressel was leading the way in this regard long before other elite programs were forced...(often tempted by big TV money to stage marquee September matchups like UM-Bama last year) to upgrade the non-con slate.

JK might have compared OSU's non-con schedule with that of other elite programs (Bama played VaTech...OSU plays Va Tech the next two years...did Bama give VaTech a home and home series...hell no)

He apparently had no idea our schedule for this year originally included an SEC team (Vandy) and Cincinnati, which dismantled Purdue yesterday. In that regard, the piece was uninformed.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby furls » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:55 pm

When OSU scheduled Cal, this year's "Marquee" game, they were a power as well. Seriously, how pissed would be if we were playing Texas this year? You never know how good these teams are going to be when you schedule them (a decade before you actually play them). For all we know Oregon may return to pre 2000 levels before the Buckeyes play them in 2020something, but that game looks good now. What else can they do?
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:09 pm

I enjoy being told what I should enjoy.

Especially when it's from someone who didn't bother to do even the most minimal of research.

Furls and Dan said it better than I can.

Fuck it, i'm STILL excited for the season. Maybe that's because I still see some great games a head. Northwestern at night, on the road. That's good CFB to those who enjoy the game.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby fairvis » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:41 pm

I had the same reaction as you, Furls. Vandy backing out and Cal being down the past few years has not helped this year's schedule one bit. But it was (at one time) very competitive. If it was his intent to get a rise out of us, it certainly worked.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:38 am

SO SOMEONE WRITE THE STORY THAT REFUTES THIS!!!!!

It should be written.

And btw, I'd run JK's story again today.

The guy can write his ass off and people read it. You may get pissed, you may decide it was done for clicks and reads. That's fine.

As someone who wants clicks and reads on the site I'm fine with it.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby furls » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:14 pm

peeker643 wrote:SO SOMEONE WRITE THE STORY THAT REFUTES THIS!!!!!

It should be written.

And btw, I'd run JK's story again today.

The guy can write his ass off and people read it. You may get pissed, you may decide it was done for clicks and reads. That's fine.

As someone who wants clicks and reads on the site I'm fine with it.


The fact that you'd run it again doesn't make it a good story. He may be able to write, I don't read his stuff (I generally only read Dan's). I prefer the back and forth of the boards to the random BS email from an English teacher to tell me that I used the wrong version of they're, there or their.

During my TCF career I got some interesting email responses from folks like the Harley family for my piece on Chic as the greatest Buckeye, one from a band member and a couple from family members of recruits and players, but in general I like the dialog with guys who know the team and the game (Lee, Dan, CDT, etc.) more than tossing articles into the internet vacuum.

I have clearly refuted his factually incorrect article here. He obviously has no idea how the business of NCAAF actually works, so he should stick to what he knows, whatever that is.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:06 pm

furls wrote:
peeker643 wrote:SO SOMEONE WRITE THE STORY THAT REFUTES THIS!!!!!

It should be written.

And btw, I'd run JK's story again today.

The guy can write his ass off and people read it. You may get pissed, you may decide it was done for clicks and reads. That's fine.

As someone who wants clicks and reads on the site I'm fine with it.


The fact that you'd run it again doesn't make it a good story. He may be able to write, I don't read his stuff (I generally only read Dan's). I prefer the back and forth of the boards to the random BS email from an English teacher to tell me that I used the wrong version of they're, there or their.

During my TCF career I got some interesting email responses from folks like the Harley family for my piece on Chic as the greatest Buckeye, one from a band member and a couple from family members of recruits and players, but in general I like the dialog with guys who know the team and the game (Lee, Dan, CDT, etc.) more than tossing articles into the internet vacuum.

I have clearly refuted his factually incorrect article here. He obviously has no idea how the business of NCAAF actually works, so he should stick to what he knows, whatever that is.


I didn't say the fact I'd run it again made it anything. ;-) ;) :wink: I just said I'd run it again.

I'll check your syntax if you wanna write. Not that I don't occasionally butcher shit.

I'm just saying that the scheduling thing is an interesting topic and I'd like to see it from the side you're taking. If not you, then Dan.

And I get the draw of the boards over the writing. It's instant conversation when you have time for it.

Although I have no idea why anyone would want to discuss anything with CDT.

Guy's a know-nothing tool box. :nanner:
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:21 pm

Not true, CDT knows brats.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:41 pm

I hate everything OSU stands for and even I'll admit that their high end nonconference scheduling is up there with anyone, at least at the time the game is scheduled. They've even scheduled decent midrange games with Marshall, Cincy, Navy, etc. Its not their fault the Big Ten has been mostly terrible the last 5-6 years.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby danwismar » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:35 pm

Kingpin74 wrote:I hate everything OSU stands for and even I'll admit that their high end nonconference scheduling is up there with anyone


Take of the Month, my man....awesome.

For my part, I'd love to see stuff on the front page from Furls. This topic just seems so well-trod...by me if no one else...in my Buckeye Leaves column or in here...that I've got 20 other topics I'd rather write about than this one.

The same schedule critics came out when OSU was favored to repeat in 2007, and they had Kent, Akron and YSU on the schedule (also at Wash). What they ignored was that it was a fluke off-year between 2-year home and home series with Texas and USC. No pleasing some people.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby furls » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:00 pm

Furthermore Dan, that "off year" was a reschedule of the 2004 Washington away game (OSU played their share in 2003). The game was set up in like 1994 when UWash was a perennial power in the PAC-10 (or was it 8 then?).

You cannot predict college football 10 years in the future, but that is when you must schedule the big games. I will give OSU even more credit.... they let VaTech move the game @ VaTech to a Night Game on Labor day in 2015. That may not sound like a big deal, but night road games are fucking tough. Just ask UGA. That is why many of us are kind of leery about the NW game this year. If it were a noon kick, I wouldn't be anywhere near as concerned.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:00 pm

I would rather see it discussed here, instead of having dueling articles on the front page. It kinda looks bad, ya know?
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:18 pm

I mean you can get on a team's case for refusing to take less than 7 home games, but that's just about every big time team in college football. Like Furls said, that's free money they're not going to turn down, nor can they probably afford to when it comes to funding other sports. Plus the cost of a respectable one-off home game keeps rising. I think Michigan paid Air Force $1.1 Mill last year.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby furls » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:31 pm

Yep, Buffalo cost OSU $1MM. OSU is going to spend $3MM on its three non con home games this year. Only way teams will stop scheduling Buffalo and FA&M is if people stop going. Folks will not stop going because there is no better sporting event than big time NCAAF.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:29 am

furls wrote:I am partially responsible for the fact that I used to write on the same web page that posted this ill-informed drivel.


Fixed. ;-)
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:30 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Not true, CDT knows brats.



Yeah. I think he might.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:33 am

jb wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Not true, CDT knows brats.



Yeah. I think he might.


Meh. Just because he and his wife just had a kid doesn't mean he knows brats. Not yet.

I have three teen daughters. I KNOW BRATS.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:00 pm

furls wrote:Yep, Buffalo cost OSU $1MM. OSU is going to spend $3MM on its three non con home games this year. Only way teams will stop scheduling Buffalo and FA&M is if people stop going. Folks will not stop going because there is no better sporting event than big time NCAAF.



But bit bit..... it's about the individual players that are there that year. They deserve gobs of jack. They're why the fans pay and go to games.
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Re: Embarassingly Bad Article on the Front Page

Unread postby furls » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:22 pm

I am not sure if this is premium or not, but this is a long but excellent article that outlines some of the struggles OSU has in their non conference scheduling.

Key points: OSU wants at least 7 home games per year because they are worth 7-10MM per, pretty much exactly what I said, but there are a lot of quotes in there from the guys that actually do the scheduling.

http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Article/ ... ade-148751
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