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Julian Assange

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Julian Assange

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:40 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281492

The UK government is going to extreme lengths to arrest a man wanted for ‘questioning’ over, clearly spurious, sexual assault allegations and for skipping his bail. Why does the UK Foreign Office wish to jeopardise its relations with the countries of Latin America and completely alienate Ecuador over this man? As editor-in-chief of Wikileaks he broke no law (even in the US) when he released over 250,000 diplomatic cables. Yet William Hague is still steadfast in his desire to have him arrested and extradited to Sweden on, in my opinion, fabricated sexual assault charges. Like any other politician who seeks to do something that is only in his government’s, or the governments of his allies, interests he is hiding behind the international laws that call on European nations to extradite those who are wanted by other European states, but it is becoming clear that this huge effort is at the instigation of America. President Obama has been virulent in his condemnation of Wikileaks and its editor-in-chief, Assange. Sweden already has a history of handing over asylum seekers to the CIA for extraordinary rendition; since the USA won’t be able to – or at least shouldn’t be able to, due to European and human rights laws – apply for his extradition to the US given that he could face the death penalty on charges of espionage, it is likely that Sweden will do the same again and hand him over. I believe the charges are farcical, and simply a pretext for the USA to circumvent the restrictions imposed on any desire for extradition. Assange would not receive a fair trial given the nature of the confidential and secret US diplomatic cables he leaked. Any case against him will portray him as a terrorist, and his actions as a breach of national security etc (you know all the clever manipulation of language that America uses to get its populace on side and hysterical.) And….well it’s America.

I’m embarrased at the UK government’s attempts at coercion and its conduct towards Ecuador and even more infuriated that they are doing the USA’s bidding. We are not mercenary State that you can just hire out to do America's dirty and illegal work.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:18 pm

I agree we should just bomb the shit outta Eucuador until they volunteer to hand him over. Show them what "murica is all about.

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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:49 pm

Swerb,

Does TCF have an "ignore specific poster" feature?
Please let me know when you have a chance. Thanks.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:02 pm

I'm torn here...

I'm not sure if I'd rather see him shot in the head, hung or spending the rest of his life in fucking Ecuador.....

<<---- thinks for a moment.....

I decide to go with hung....maybe his head will snap off

Seriouslytho, go fuck yourself with your anti America bullshit, pansy
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:43 pm

Good for Ecuador.

I may not agree with Assange on a lot, but I do love a good thumb in the eye of power...... and he is that.

America wasn't harmed by Wikileaks, just embarrassed. But she can't take it.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:04 pm

Gee, hate to see America's government embarrassed.

As in if you're America, you don't bother with embarrassment. You're supposed to be able to say "Yeah, wish that didn't come out. What's it to you?"
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:55 am

I was expecting insular and vacuous comments on this. I forgot that Americans prefer to be both deaf and blind.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:58 am

Americans never forget that Limeys are uppity fags that don't know their place

You should be more concerned with Muslims taking over your country than what Americans think about Assange

...but hey, if he wants to live in a mud hut and raise chickens for the rest of his life like Adolph Eichman, who are we to judge ...
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby danwismar » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:12 am

Whatever else you can say about Assange, two things are hardly debatable:

He's a dick.

He hates America.

BP has one good point. The sex charges, unfounded or justified, seem like a convenient pretext to punish the little dick for something.

His tactics are dangerous though, even if nobody has been killed yet...that we know of. When you release hundreds of thousands of supposedly confidential documents without knowing what's in them, diplomats and sources and others are potentially put in danger.

What is satisfying to me is that his project blew up in his face.

First, he set out to embarrass and shame America. What the diplomatic cables reveal though, for the most part, is that career American foreign service people are smart, capable and principled, and they are excellent writers and communicators.

The last point this silly little narcissist doesn't get is this. He purports to be anti-war...natch...and the art of diplomacy is what civilized countries undertake in order to avoid conflict, armed and otherwise. His "work" undermines the necessary confidentiality and secrecy that diplomats rely on. He makes diplomats and governments less likely to engage in the kinds of behind closed doors frankness and honesty that makes diplomacy work. He undermines diplomacy through his actions, thus making conflict and/or war more, not less likely.

Thanks, dick.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby gotribe31 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:26 am

British_Pharaoh wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281492

The UK government is going to extreme lengths to arrest a man wanted for ‘questioning’ over, clearly spurious, sexual assault allegations and for skipping his bail. Why does the UK Foreign Office wish to jeopardise its relations with the countries of Latin America and completely alienate Ecuador over this man? As editor-in-chief of Wikileaks he broke no law (even in the US) when he released over 250,000 diplomatic cables. Yet William Hague is still steadfast in his desire to have him arrested and extradited to Sweden on, in my opinion, fabricated sexual assault charges. Like any other politician who seeks to do something that is only in his government’s, or the governments of his allies, interests he is hiding behind the international laws that call on European nations to extradite those who are wanted by other European states, but it is becoming clear that this huge effort is at the instigation of America. President Obama has been virulent in his condemnation of Wikileaks and its editor-in-chief, Assange. Sweden already has a history of handing over asylum seekers to the CIA for extraordinary rendition; since the USA won’t be able to – or at least shouldn’t be able to, due to European and human rights laws – apply for his extradition to the US given that he could face the death penalty on charges of espionage, it is likely that Sweden will do the same again and hand him over. I believe the charges are farcical, and simply a pretext for the USA to circumvent the restrictions imposed on any desire for extradition. Assange would not receive a fair trial given the nature of the confidential and secret US diplomatic cables he leaked. Any case against him will portray him as a terrorist, and his actions as a breach of national security etc (you know all the clever manipulation of language that America uses to get its populace on side and hysterical.) And….well it’s America.

I’m embarrased at the UK government’s attempts at coercion and its conduct towards Ecuador and even more infuriated that they are doing the USA’s bidding. We are not mercenary State that you can just hire out to do America's dirty and illegal work.


The UK trade with Ecuador will be crippled! The special relationship that has existed between the UK and Ecuador is doomed I tell you, doomed! How will the British economy survive this hardship???? Where is Winston Churchill when you need him? THIS IS A CRISIS PEOPLE! WAAAAYUWAUAE!#%!#%!#%!!@%!&!

As far as your claim that he violated no laws, check out 18 USC 739. I think you'll find that covers it pretty clearly. On one hand you say he's broken no laws, but on the other hand you say he'd be facing the death penalty in the US? Which is it? I'd also love for you to provide examples of people that have claimed asylum in Sweden that the Swedes have handed over to the CIA for extraordinary rendition.

I'm also unclear as to why you think this US-UK relationship is so one-sided. The Brits do stuff for us, and we do stuff for them all the time. It's a two-way street, and it works pretty well for both govts for the most part. Ditch the inferiority complex already, it's so 1820s.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:42 am

British_Pharaoh wrote:I was expecting insular and vacuous comments on this. I forgot that Americans prefer to be both deaf and blind.


I prefer to be just deaf.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:05 am

18 USC 739


I copy/paste the exact numbers and Google came back with a bunch of nothing. Some shit about bank robbery.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby gotribe31 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:18 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
18 USC 739


I copy/paste the exact numbers and Google came back with a bunch of nothing. Some shit about bank robbery.



Sorry, should have been 793. Also 798 and even 794. It's the blind and deaf American in me coming out, the one that likes to hide behind my firearms.

There's really no case law/precedent on it, but it covers the disclosure of classified information to "unauthorized persons" or foreign govts who could use it against the US. Since Assange basically gave it to everyone, I'd assume unauthorized persons and foreign govts would be included.

Personally, I think that until we prosecute all of the shitbag congressmen, staffers and other people in the US who are leaking information in direct violation of their security clearances and non-disclosure agreements, we should leave this turd alone.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:25 am

You can't stop leaks.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby gotribe31 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:37 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:You can't stop leaks.


Agreed. You can't stop murders. We still try to punish those responsible. And a lot of muderers are actually tough guys who don't mind prison. Congressman are not. You throw one of them in a no-shit prison for even a month, their buddies would take notice.

I'm fine with whistleblowers who call the govt on overcollection and violations of the law. I'm not fine with some congressman from one party leaking stuff to make the other party look bad. Or some staffer trying to make his boss look better by telling the NYT about a classifed collection platform. Things that can compromise sources (human or other) and get people killed. For example, the leaks in the NY Subway plot a couple years ago nearly derailed the entire investigation.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby exiledbuckeye » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:58 am

Here's a link to those U.S. Code sections, for your reading pleasure.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-37
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:51 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:You can't stop leaks.


Dumbass.

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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby pup » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:49 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:You can't stop leaks.


Dumbass.

Image



Talk about dumb. Let's see Leak Ender 2000 do this!


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Dude, that is a god damn screen door on the bottom of the boat. Pffffft. Leak Ender 2000? It is 2012, I suggest you get with the times.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:30 am

danwismar wrote:Whatever else you can say about Assange, two things are hardly debatable:

He's a dick.

He hates America.

BP has one good point. The sex charges, unfounded or justified, seem like a convenient pretext to punish the little dick for something.

His tactics are dangerous though, even if nobody has been killed yet...that we know of. When you release hundreds of thousands of supposedly confidential documents without knowing what's in them, diplomats and sources and others are potentially put in danger.

What is satisfying to me is that his project blew up in his face.

First, he set out to embarrass and shame America. What the diplomatic cables reveal though, for the most part, is that career American foreign service people are smart, capable and principled, and they are excellent writers and communicators.

The last point this silly little narcissist doesn't get is this. He purports to be anti-war...natch...and the art of diplomacy is what civilized countries undertake in order to avoid conflict, armed and otherwise. His "work" undermines the necessary confidentiality and secrecy that diplomats rely on. He makes diplomats and governments less likely to engage in the kinds of behind closed doors frankness and honesty that makes diplomacy work. He undermines diplomacy through his actions, thus making conflict and/or war more, not less likely.

Thanks, dick.


My friend, the military and defence information that was released (regarding movements, operations etc) was over 3 years old. The issue that America, and other nations, suffered huge embarrassment, not that the publishing of the secret cables disclosed anything that would compromise national security or soldiers lives. He knew exactly what was contained in the documents as he vetted them before their release.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby gotribe31 » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:25 am

Yes, no doubt he read all 250,000 of those cables. Right.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:46 pm

gotribe31 wrote:Yes, no doubt he read all 250,000 of those cables. Right.


He was probably briefed on which cables were pointless and which ones will be talked about. Assange is not liked by most of his co-workers, some called him the "Slave Driver" before leaving to start their own leak sites OpenLeaks or LeakSpin.

Nobody cares about the cable about how one of the diplomats from Turkmenistan has bad breath.

People do care about killing of journalists in the "Collateral Murder" video, and that 15,000 more Iraqi civilians died than we told.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:18 pm

gotribe31 wrote:Yes, no doubt he read all 250,000 of those cables. Right.


And our congress doesn't even read the bills they vote for, tell me which is worse for the country.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Orenthal » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:27 pm

Any chance the fame of the leaks went to his head, ego inflated he thought he could do anything he wanted, and some chick called him on it? I do not know the timeline, but perhaps it is not all some American setup.

I know if all the sudden I became someone I might to to exert that power!
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:07 pm

British_Pharaoh wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281492

I’m embarrased at the UK government’s attempts at coercion and its conduct towards Ecuador and even more infuriated that they are doing the USA’s bidding. We are not mercenary State that you can just hire out to do America's dirty and illegal work.


Yes, you pretty much are. And you do so quite willingly. Obama says jump and David Cameron asks "how high, Mr. President?"

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/19/a_demented_detention_at_heathrow_airport
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:59 am

gotribe31 wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:You can't stop leaks.


And a lot of muderers are actually tough guys who don't mind prison. Congressman are not. You throw one of them in a no-shit prison for even a month, their buddies would take notice.

.


Certainly going off on a tangent from the limey's original post but do you think Congressman would really take notice??

I believe that politicians must be wired differently from everyone else. This is based on living in Illinois a long time. Going back for decades our top politicians have bribed, stolen, looted and broken a wide-assortment of laws for personal gain. One after another have been tried, convicted and hauled-off to jail. Most recently George Ryan, Rod Blagojevich, Jesse Jackson Jr. and a never-ending parade of Chicago City officials. After decades of this I am always amazed that they never stop and never learn. Maybe an ego thing??? - - they are "too smart" to get caught. I think you could impose death sentances and politiicans would still do what they do.

I think you in Ohio also have a lot of experience with these crooked politicians.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:23 am

deleted--double post
Last edited by YahooFanChicago on Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:27 am

British_Pharaoh wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281492

The UK government is going to extreme lengths to arrest a man wanted for ‘questioning’ over, clearly spurious, sexual assault allegations and for skipping his bail. Why does the UK Foreign Office wish to jeopardise its relations with the countries of Latin America and completely alienate Ecuador .


Why do you like to come on here with your bullshit wingeing all the time.? Can you just once change the channel and bitch about something else? You limey's are great at finding crap to whine about...can't you just slouch your way down to the local pub for some warm pints of beer and winge to some other poms about the Frogs and German's reserving all of the pool lounge chairs or something?

You're a tiny country with a tiny population and an increasingly insignificant economy. You have been relegated and it's time to get used to it. You're not even a top 5 country in terms of GDP and you will soon be passed-up by Rusia, Brazil and India as well. The UK's days of punching above their weight class are long over. You're living in the past if you think otherwise. In 10-20 more years the UK may not even have a seat at the table.

The UK will continue to do as they are told by the US in order to get a small voice at the adult's table. The other option is you can try and cozy-up to the EU but I don't think that's going to happen either. Enjoy the relegation and decline....
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby googleeph2 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:46 am

Yet we remain so alike, don't we.

The assertion of moral superiority through faux humility thing.
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:43 am

YahooFanChicago wrote:
British_Pharaoh wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281492

The UK government is going to extreme lengths to arrest a man wanted for ‘questioning’ over, clearly spurious, sexual assault allegations and for skipping his bail. Why does the UK Foreign Office wish to jeopardise its relations with the countries of Latin America and completely alienate Ecuador .


Why do you like to come on here with your bullshit wingeing all the time.? Can you just once change the channel and bitch about something else? You limey's are great at finding crap to whine about...can't you just slouch your way down to the local pub for some warm pints of beer and winge to some other poms about the Frogs and German's reserving all of the pool lounge chairs or something?

You're a tiny country with a tiny population and an increasingly insignificant economy. You have been relegated and it's time to get used to it. You're not even a top 5 country in terms of GDP and you will soon be passed-up by Rusia, Brazil and India as well. The UK's days of punching above their weight class are long over. You're living in the past if you think otherwise. In 10-20 more years the UK may not even have a seat at the table.

The UK will continue to do as they are told by the US in order to get a small voice at the adult's table. The other option is you can try and cozy-up to the EU but I don't think that's going to happen either. Enjoy the relegation and decline....



Heh... :thumb up:
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Re: Julian Assange

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:44 am

YahooFanChicago wrote:
British_Pharaoh wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281492

The UK government is going to extreme lengths to arrest a man wanted for ‘questioning’ over, clearly spurious, sexual assault allegations and for skipping his bail. Why does the UK Foreign Office wish to jeopardise its relations with the countries of Latin America and completely alienate Ecuador .


Why do you like to come on here with your bullshit wingeing all the time.? Can you just once change the channel and bitch about something else? You limey's are great at finding crap to whine about...can't you just slouch your way down to the local pub for some warm pints of beer and winge to some other poms about the Frogs and German's reserving all of the pool lounge chairs or something?

You're a tiny country with a tiny population and an increasingly insignificant economy. You have been relegated and it's time to get used to it. You're not even a top 5 country in terms of GDP and you will soon be passed-up by Rusia, Brazil and India as well. The UK's days of punching above their weight class are long over. You're living in the past if you think otherwise. In 10-20 more years the UK may not even have a seat at the table.

The UK will continue to do as they are told by the US in order to get a small voice at the adult's table. The other option is you can try and cozy-up to the EU but I don't think that's going to happen either. Enjoy the relegation and decline....



Heh... :thumb up:
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