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PED suspensions

Unread postby OldDawg » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:30 pm

I didn't see another thread on this. I don't know about you, but in a way, I kinda hope that A-Rod gets out of his suspension. I would hate to see the Yankees get out of the rest of his contract. The way they simply outspend everyone without hesitation, they deserve to eat the rest of his contract. It would suck that as soon as A-Rod's skills seem to be diminishing, that all of a sudden they don't have to pay him. And then that frees up all that cash to outspend the rest of us all over again without it even hurting a bit.

Edit: Don't get me wrong. I am NOT an A-Rod fan at all. It wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if he doesn't get paid. It hurts my feelings that the Yankees get bailed out.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:45 pm

I'd like to see him skate a bit for the reason you mention. Also because I no longer particularly give a shit who did/didn't do PEDs.

Just give him 50 games like you give anyone else with a positive test. You know, like was collectively bargained?
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:02 pm

motherscratcher wrote:Just give him 50 games like you give anyone else with a positive test. You know, like was collectively bargained?


Odds are, they'll use the same "Labor Agreement Violation" they used on Ryan Braun, but stronger. I wonder how long Braun is ostracized for, especially by other players around the league.

I could care less what happens to A-Rod. He's a shell of the player he used to be, whether that's PED-related or not. I'd like the Yankees to remain tied to the contract, but I am enjoying the fact that they gave CC a monster extension after the 2011 season and he's barely hitting 92 anymore.

I still wish MLB would take some accountability for the major umpiring problem that they have instead of going on these PED witch hunts.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:46 pm

I still wish MLB would take some accountability for the major umpiring problem that they have instead of going on these PED witch hunts.


Selig will never do it, but I hope that the next commish has the balls to threaten the umpires with electronic ball and strike meters. The technology is there, and it could be done. But mostly, I hope the threat would cause the umpires to get in line and start acting like they have some professional pride.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:51 pm

bac5665 wrote:
I still wish MLB would take some accountability for the major umpiring problem that they have instead of going on these PED witch hunts.


Selig will never do it, but I hope that the next commish has the balls to threaten the umpires with electronic ball and strike meters. The technology is there, and it could be done. But mostly, I hope the threat would cause the umpires to get in line and start acting like they have some professional pride.


Just have a board that conducts performance reviews every couple of years. Set parameters that must be met based on calling balls/strikes compared to PITCHf/x data and percentages for right calls on the basepaths. Exams on the rules. Simulated scenarios.

Unless you commit a major crime or retire, you're an umpire for life. Put some watchdogs in place and these guys will start taking some accountability.

If any one of us were as incompetent as Angel Hernandez, Joe West, Bob Davidson, CB Bucknor, etc., etc. are at our jobs, we'd all be fired on the spot. These guys have been umpires for a long, long time.

There are no repercussions for umpshows. There should be. We're long past the need for the human element. There's way too much technology for the human element to have as big of an impact as it does. If a guy blows a call every now and then, shit happens. But the guys who continually blow calls need to be reprimanded.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:06 pm

I really do want as much automation as can be possible. Look at how tennis does it. Give each player about 2 challenges a game, reviews take 10 seconds, and accuracy is greatly increased. The same technology tennis uses could be used for everything in baseball from homeruns, to baserunning, to balls and strikes.

It would add less than 5 minutes a game and umpires would have a record of just how often they are wrong.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:31 pm

motherscratcher wrote:I'd like to see him skate a bit for the reason you mention. Also because I no longer particularly give a shit who did/didn't do PEDs.

Just give him 50 games like you give anyone else with a positive test. You know, like was collectively bargained?


It seems like kind of a consensus that nobody gives a shit, and people are sick of the constant PED talk, yet a late case like Ryan Braun gets talked about 20 times as much as Miggy Cabrera winning the first triple crown in 4,000 years.

People just love waiting for the ax to swing. Once it swings on A-Rod, they'll turn to someone else, even if Chris Davis hits 80 dingers.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:01 pm

To their credit, the talking heads seem to actually have started talking about the AL Central today, and other positive storylines. We'll see how long that lasts.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby 7foot3 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:56 pm

leadpipe wrote:It seems like kind of a consensus that nobody gives a shit, and people are sick of the constant PED talk, yet a late case like Ryan Braun gets talked about 20 times as much as Miggy Cabrera winning the first triple crown in 4,000 years.

People just love waiting for the ax to swing. Once it swings on A-Rod, they'll turn to someone else, even if Chris Davis hits 80 dingers.



It does get talked a lot about for something people are considered sick of, but it was hard to turn on anything baseball related down the stretch last year without hearing about Cabrera and the triple crown.

My issue is that Selig is intent on dragging everyone, and the game, through the mud to get revenge on Braun and Rodriguez. As scratcher said above, if a guy tests positive, pop him. If you've got damn good evidence that Rodriguez bought banned substances, lets see it. But buying a drug dealer's testimony and going around the punishments agreed upon in the JDA, I have to think this will shine an even worse light on MLB.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:23 pm

OldDawg wrote:I didn't see another thread on this. I don't know about you, but in a way, I kinda hope that A-Rod gets out of his suspension. I would hate to see the Yankees get out of the rest of his contract. The way they simply outspend everyone without hesitation, they deserve to eat the rest of his contract. It would suck that as soon as A-Rod's skills seem to be diminishing, that all of a sudden they don't have to pay him. And then that frees up all that cash to outspend the rest of us all over again without it even hurting a bit.

Edit: Don't get me wrong. I am NOT an A-Rod fan at all. It wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if he doesn't get paid. It hurts my feelings that the Yankees get bailed out.


I'm totally with you on this...couldn't have said it better myself. I was thinking the exact same thing. I think the optimal outcome is that he gets his douchey pretty-boy washed-up ass suspended for the rumored 200 games we're hearing, and then attempts to come back at age 40 as an even bigger shell of the already shell of his former self. Would love to see the Yankees have to foot the $30 million for two or three years after that, because I don't see him walking away from that kind of money (who would?).

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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:46 pm

7foot3 wrote:
leadpipe wrote:It seems like kind of a consensus that nobody gives a shit, and people are sick of the constant PED talk, yet a late case like Ryan Braun gets talked about 20 times as much as Miggy Cabrera winning the first triple crown in 4,000 years.

People just love waiting for the ax to swing. Once it swings on A-Rod, they'll turn to someone else, even if Chris Davis hits 80 dingers.



It does get talked a lot about for something people are considered sick of, but it was hard to turn on anything baseball related down the stretch last year without hearing about Cabrera and the triple crown.

My issue is that Selig is intent on dragging everyone, and the game, through the mud to get revenge on Braun and Rodriguez. As scratcher said above, if a guy tests positive, pop him. If you've got damn good evidence that Rodriguez bought banned substances, lets see it. But buying a drug dealer's testimony and going around the punishments agreed upon in the JDA, I have to think this will shine an even worse light on MLB.


I'm lead to believe they've got a ton of evidence, based on the fact that the strongest union known to man is seemingly willing to cut deals. As far as Selig dragging this along....I'm not sure the guy knows how to handle it. The only reason Braun's case is in the rear view is HE called MLB to get a deal cut - which is another reason I think there is big time evidence against these guys. But again, if the evidence is that big, this should be done already.

By the way, MLB even screwed up Braun's penalty. Christ, the rest of this season - a season in which the team stinks, Braun is already struggling through games with the elbow issue, and then he comes back ready for a higher salaried season. If it weren't for the public shame of lying, this would be a dream come true.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:40 am

Any chance I guy who's going to end up in the neighborhood of 700 career HR's doesn't get into the HOF?

I suppose if a guy with more hits than Ty Cobb and who never took PED's can't get in, anything's possible.

I also wonder if the Yankees have legal justification for terminating his contract if he's found guilty of abusing PED's based on convincing evidence, whether he admits it or not.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:08 am

Prosecutor wrote:Any chance I guy who's going to end up in the neighborhood of 700 career HR's doesn't get into the HOF?

I suppose if a guy with more hits than Ty Cobb and who never took PED's can't get in, anything's possible.

I also wonder if the Yankees have legal justification for terminating his contract if he's found guilty of abusing PED's based on convincing evidence, whether he admits it or not.


Dude, a guy with nearly 800 ain't gettin' in this year.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:15 am

But will he get in eventually? Is not getting in as soon as he's eligible the price to be paid for steroid abuse, or is the price going to be much higher?
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:44 am

I don't give a shit. Put whatever you want into your body and hit the ball 600 feet 50 times a year.

The HoF stuff means even less to me. Any place that says "Ty Cobb is fine, but no juicers" isn't worth the dirt it's built on.

I'll say it again, any player that went into the HoF before integration, should have his plaque removed and thrown into the trash. Biggest. Competitive. Advantage. Ever.

But baseball is populated with gutless hypocrites and romantics stuck in a time warp.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:39 am

leadpipe wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:I'd like to see him skate a bit for the reason you mention. Also because I no longer particularly give a shit who did/didn't do PEDs.

Just give him 50 games like you give anyone else with a positive test. You know, like was collectively bargained?


It seems like kind of a consensus that nobody gives a shit, and people are sick of the constant PED talk, yet a late case like Ryan Braun gets talked about 20 times as much as Miggy Cabrera winning the first triple crown in 4,000 years.

People just love waiting for the ax to swing. Once it swings on A-Rod, they'll turn to someone else, even if Chris Davis hits 80 dingers.

I think there are a couple reasons for that. First I'd bet many people don't buy Cabrera is 100% legit himself, as fair or unfair as that is. Second, none of the recent PED perps are endangering the hallowed HR record like ARod was on a collision course with.

Another reason for the lack of concern over PEDs is probably due to the young generations of fans not knowing any other eras in the game than the PED era.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:42 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I'll say it again, any player that went into the HoF before integration, should have his plaque removed and thrown into the trash. Biggest. Competitive. Advantage. Ever.

But baseball is populated with gutless hypocrites and romantics stuck in a time warp.


That's a fair point, but it wasn't the players of those times fault. They still accomplished what they accomplished.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:53 pm

A-Rod basically stating that the Yankees hope he never plays again...

A-Rod: "I will say this... There's more than one party that benefits from me not ever stepping back on the field. That's not my teammates. And it's not the Yankee fans."

Reporter: "Who is it? Who benefits?"

A-Rod: Chuckling "I can't tell you that right now... I think it's pretty self-explanatory. I think that's the pink elephant in the room.... People are finding creative ways to cancel your contract and stuff like that, I think that's concerning for me, that's concerning for the president and I think that should be concerning for future players as well..


From post game interview yesterday.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_ ... ees-monday

Oh, and btw, the Yankees still owe him over $100 million on his contract.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:11 pm

OldDawg wrote:Oh, and btw, the Yankees still owe him over $100 million on his contract.


Ban or not, they should still be on the hook for that contract, just for being stupid enough to give it to him.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:15 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:
OldDawg wrote:Oh, and btw, the Yankees still owe him over $100 million on his contract.


Ban or not, they should still be on the hook for that contract, just for being stupid enough to give it to him.


I saw on the tube that the Yankees only owe him $90 million. But I believe they still owe him $13 million yet this year, so it is over $100 mill.

Reports are saying a 214 game suspension.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby bookelly » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:06 pm

OldDawg wrote:
Adverb Harry wrote:
OldDawg wrote:Oh, and btw, the Yankees still owe him over $100 million on his contract.


Ban or not, they should still be on the hook for that contract, just for being stupid enough to give it to him.


I saw on the tube that the Yankees only owe him $90 million. But I believe they still owe him $13 million yet this year, so it is over $100 mill.

Reports are saying a 214 game suspension.
http://tracking.si.com/2013/08/03/repor ... =mlb_t2_a2


Better be with pay. Or the Players Union should have a shit fit. Think about all the bad contracts out there. Now imagine a team being able to get out of said contract by drumming up a PED charge (true or not) and voiding the contract. If I'm a clean player, I'd STILL have to be on the side of A-Rod getting his money. Otherwise it sets a horrible precedent.

EDIT: Hell, if I'm the Indians I'd be screaming if the Yankees don't have to pay him. They took the risk, they deserve the penalty. Maybe this will teach the big markets to not hand out these stupid contracts and medium and small market teams will eventually keep their own superstars.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:39 pm

bookelly wrote:If I'm the Indians I'd be screaming if the Yankees don't have to pay him. They took the risk, they deserve the penalty. Maybe this will teach the big markets to not hand out these stupid contracts and medium and small market teams will eventually keep their own superstars.


+ a bunch
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:42 pm

bookelly wrote:Better be with pay. Or the Players Union should have a shit fit. Think about all the bad contracts out there. Now imagine a team being able to get out of said contract by drumming up a PED charge (true or not) and voiding the contract. If I'm a clean player, I'd STILL have to be on the side of A-Rod getting his money. Otherwise it sets a horrible precedent.

Probably depends on the MLB negotiated agreement and A-Rods contract. Like K2s motorcyle accident. I believe the Browns could have used a "being a stupid idiot" clause written in K2's contract
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:37 pm

We've all been deciding which is worse, letting A-Rod come back after a long suspension or kick him out and let the Skankees win with a bunch of new money. Bud Showalter put it very simply: “If Bud lets them get away with that, they’re under the luxury tax,” Showalter told USA TODAY Sports. “If they can reset, they can spend again and I guarantee you in two years Matt Wieters is in New York.”.....
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:38 am

This is the dumbest thread ever.

If he violated his contract the Yankees should be able to get out from under it and every fan, team, GM and coach should support that. Forcing a team illegally to pay for a violated contract would not only ruin the sport, it would be the most egregious means of giving players the right to do whatever they want ever seen.

Christ anyone bitching about the Yankees getting money out of this while ignoring that if a contract was violated it legally should not be paid is not just an effing dipshit, they are also a whiny bitch.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:47 am

e0y2e3 wrote:This is the dumbest thread ever.


Hyperbole much?

You've been around here long enough to know that this isn't even close to the dumbest thread ever.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:53 am

I don't know man, talking about forcing a team to potentially illegally pay a player because "WAAAAH YANKEES, WAHHH!!!" is really, really bad.

Like really bad.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:31 am

IDK eye. PED consequences were collectively bargained. Is there a precedent set for a team voiding a contract due to a PED violation? They aren't hitting him for a positive test, though.

Not sure what to think here.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:34 am

motherscratcher wrote:IDK eye. PED consequences were collectively bargained. Is there a precedent set for a team voiding a contract due to a PED violation? They aren't hitting him for a positive test, though.

Not sure what to think here.


Precedent doesn't matter, the specific wording of his contract does.

And honestly if teams didn't build PED violation out clauses into post McGwire era contracts they deserve to pay them.

This is very simple, if there is an out clause that will hold up in court they don't pay if they are dumb and didn't have one they do.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:52 am

e0y2e3 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:IDK eye. PED consequences were collectively bargained. Is there a precedent set for a team voiding a contract due to a PED violation? They aren't hitting him for a positive test, though.

Not sure what to think here.


Precedent doesn't matter, the specific wording of his contract does.

And honestly if teams didn't build PED violation out clauses into post McGwire era contracts they deserve to pay them.

This is very simple, if there is an out clause that will hold up in court they don't pay if they are dumb and didn't have one they do.


There clearly two factors involved. The bargaining agreement and the individual contract.

Like I said earlier, the Browns had a clause in K2s contract about taking unnecessary risks off the field. "Hazardous activities" clause.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/s ... id=2053831
They did not invoke that clause after the motorcyle wheelie accident.

Conversely, I remember hearing in Michael Jordan's early contracts, he had a "love of the game" clause, which stated the Bulls could not prevent MJ from playing ball in pick up type games and risking potential injury.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1170 ... ory/page/6

Here's to hoping the Yankees eat the entire contract. Let ARod lose money through endorsements. If that makes me a whiner, eye, so be it.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby bookelly » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:27 am

e0y2e3 wrote:I don't know man, talking about forcing a team to potentially illegally pay a player because "WAAAAH YANKEES, WAHHH!!!" is really, really bad.

Like really bad.


Ya know, when you wanna step into my turf and call me a whiner using logical fallacies as your argument points you lose all credibility.

Go haunt your Cavs boards. At least you know 50% of what you talk of there. Here you got 0% asshole. :fu:
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:53 am

bookelly wrote:EDIT: Hell, if I'm the Indians I'd be screaming if the Yankees don't have to pay him. They took the risk, they deserve the penalty. Maybe this will teach the big markets to not hand out these stupid contracts and medium and small market teams will eventually keep their own superstars.


Reading, it isn't hard.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby bookelly » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:14 am

e0y2e3 wrote:
bookelly wrote:EDIT: Hell, if I'm the Indians I'd be screaming if the Yankees don't have to pay him. They took the risk, they deserve the penalty. Maybe this will teach the big markets to not hand out these stupid contracts and medium and small market teams will eventually keep their own superstars.


Reading, it isn't hard.


My mistypes are far more insightful than your misplaced commas. If syntax and grammar are your arguement in pedandantiatricitiy...you win.

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Edit: thought this thread was about PED's. You obviously haven't taken yours.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:21 am

e0y2e3 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:IDK eye. PED consequences were collectively bargained. Is there a precedent set for a team voiding a contract due to a PED violation? They aren't hitting him for a positive test, though.

Not sure what to think here.


Precedent doesn't matter, the specific wording of his contract does.

And honestly if teams didn't build PED violation out clauses into post McGwire era contracts they deserve to pay them.

This is very simple, if there is an out clause that will hold up in court they don't pay if they are dumb and didn't have one they do.


Well, yeah, if there's a PED out clause. But I haven't heard anything about a specific PED out in his contract. Maybe I just missed it, but doesn't that seem like a thing that sportswriters would be shouting from the mountaintops?

It just seems strange that with all of the players who have been caught and suspended for PEDs I have never heard of any having their contract voided. Who knows, maybe there is an out in all of the contracts and ARod is just the first player that the team actually wants to use it on.

But, unless a breach clause is there, I don't know how ARod can be treated as a special case and void his contract just because everyone on earth thinks he's an insufferable asshole.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:23 am

How many of those players were overpaid to the point they were killing their team and were aging at a rate they were useless?

Fuck, the Indians could have gotten out of Fausto's contract but even he had enough worth to keep around.

A-Rod is an instance where if there is a legal way to get out of it they will (it'll be some abstract language that can include PEDs).

Again, this isn't fucking rocket science.

BTW: I do wonder if insurance won't just pick up his contract while he's suspended too, which would essentially mean you all can WAAAHMBULANCE over that instead.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:55 am

motherscratcher wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:IDK eye. PED consequences were collectively bargained. Is there a precedent set for a team voiding a contract due to a PED violation? They aren't hitting him for a positive test, though.

Not sure what to think here.


Precedent doesn't matter, the specific wording of his contract does.

And honestly if teams didn't build PED violation out clauses into post McGwire era contracts they deserve to pay them.

This is very simple, if there is an out clause that will hold up in court they don't pay if they are dumb and didn't have one they do.


Well, yeah, if there's a PED out clause. But I haven't heard anything about a specific PED out in his contract. Maybe I just missed it, but doesn't that seem like a thing that sportswriters would be shouting from the mountaintops?

It just seems strange that with all of the players who have been caught and suspended for PEDs I have never heard of any having their contract voided. Who knows, maybe there is an out in all of the contracts and ARod is just the first player that the team actually wants to use it on.

But, unless a breach clause is there, I don't know how ARod can be treated as a special case and void his contract just because everyone on earth thinks he's an insufferable asshole.

The contract is guaranteed and most likely due to CBA it's an iron clad agreement. There's already a stipulated penalty for ARod's PED use, 50 games. I don't see how anything other than a 50 game suspension AND a full honoring of his contract can take place. Unless some questionable backroom stuff starts happening.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:09 am

e0y2e3 wrote:How many of those players were overpaid to the point they were killing their team and were aging at a rate they were useless?

Fuck, the Indians could have gotten out of Fausto's contract but even he had enough worth to keep around.

A-Rod is an instance where if there is a legal way to get out of it they will (it'll be some abstract language that can include PEDs).

Again, this isn't fucking rocket science.

BTW: I do wonder if insurance won't just pick up his contract while he's suspended too, which would essentially mean you all can WAAAHMBULANCE over that instead.


Who's making it rocket science? Of ourse if there is a legal way to get out of it they will, and should. And I'm not cryin about the Yankees. I could give a shit whether they pay him or not. It will not make one damn bit of difference to baseball as a whole or the Indians in particular. So I don't care.

All I'm saying is that I I don't think there is a specific PED clause that voids his contract, be ause that would be iron clad and I think we would already know that. So, like you said, it will have to be voided using a more general nonspecific clause interpreted in a way to wiggle through. Which means a long court case if thy try it.

I only hope it's interesting.

As to your first point, yeah, that's what I said.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:12 am

FUDU wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:IDK eye. PED consequences were collectively bargained. Is there a precedent set for a team voiding a contract due to a PED violation? They aren't hitting him for a positive test, though.

Not sure what to think here.


Precedent doesn't matter, the specific wording of his contract does.

And honestly if teams didn't build PED violation out clauses into post McGwire era contracts they deserve to pay them.

This is very simple, if there is an out clause that will hold up in court they don't pay if they are dumb and didn't have one they do.


Well, yeah, if there's a PED out clause. But I haven't heard anything about a specific PED out in his contract. Maybe I just missed it, but doesn't that seem like a thing that sportswriters would be shouting from the mountaintops?

It just seems strange that with all of the players who have been caught and suspended for PEDs I have never heard of any having their contract voided. Who knows, maybe there is an out in all of the contracts and ARod is just the first player that the team actually wants to use it on.

But, unless a breach clause is there, I don't know how ARod can be treated as a special case and void his contract just because everyone on earth thinks he's an insufferable asshole.

The contract is guaranteed and most likely due to CBA it's an iron clad agreement. There's already a stipulated penalty for ARod's PED use, 50 games. I don't see how anything other than a 50 game suspension AND a full honoring of his contract can take place. Unless some questionable backroom stuff starts happening.


DU , I think the problem is the way I was discovered. 50 game pop comes with a positive test. These guys didn't tes positive. That's why this is different and Bud is goin rogue with the lengths.

I think
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:16 am

motherscratcher wrote:Of course if there is a legal way to get out of it they will, and should.


And none of your posts in this thread set me off.

The complete and utter stupidity and the select few whiners did.

This thread could have been one post:

"I don't like the Yankees and I hope they don't have a legal way to get out of paying A-Rod."

BOOM, discussion over! HUZZAH!!! GET EXCITED! GREAT TOPIC AND AWESOME DISCOURSE!

We even got Cable TV Lawyer FUDU Grace to drop in and smack us with some MLB CBA knowledge now!
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:29 am

motherscratcher wrote:I could give a shit whether they pay him or not. It will not make one damn bit of difference to baseball as a whole or the Indians in particular. So I don't care.

I'll be honest, I kinda care. I know how hard it is for the Tribe (and others) to build a contender. It's never been a level playing field for the Yankees. So if you ask me if I want the Yankees to have another spare $20+ million per year laying around to play around with for the next 4 years, I'm gonna say "no." I would guess 80% of mlb fans would feel the same way.

And I agree, scratcher, you don't hear people saying ARod's contract will be voided. You hear speculation, even from ARod, that the Yankees are trying to get out of the contract. I would think in this day and age of our media, if something like that were in his contract, it would be common knowledge by now.

And your "never tested positive" angle is interesting. You can't REALLY say that about Braun, but the others....
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:39 am

e0y2e3 wrote:This thread could have been one post:

"I don't like the Yankees and I hope they don't have a legal way to get out of paying A-Rod."

I guess we should have locked it after the first post, huh?

Eye, I really enjoy some of your perspectives and input on issues.

Its just a good thing you're not a mod. Threads would be locked down and members would be banned by the minute.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:09 pm

Threads like this shouldn't be locked, they should be left open for you to bitch about the Yankees potentially using the law to get more money (legally, ya know, because a contract is a legal document and they can't get money back if it's not.... well.... legal).

What's next? "The Steelers should start giving up draft picks because of how much better historically they are at developing them than the Browns and that's mean!"
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:09 pm

He'll get a PED suspension for certain. Only question is if it's longer than normal because of his attempts to cover it up with a lot of money.

Selig won't use the 'best interests' clause. Not going to happen.

But think of how staggering and overwhelming the evidence has to be for the hard-ass union to shut up and let the chips fall where they may on these cases.

This is a negotiation. I've said a million times before how it goes when each party makes a ridiculous demand or offer to kick it off. The 'lifetime' thing is MLB's ridiculous demand. They'll work something out that's likely > of games than what guys who cheated but didn't offer bribes and cash and other inducements to try and weasel out of it got but that's not close to a lifetime ban.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:49 pm

FUDU wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I'll say it again, any player that went into the HoF before integration, should have his plaque removed and thrown into the trash. Biggest. Competitive. Advantage. Ever.

But baseball is populated with gutless hypocrites and romantics stuck in a time warp.


That's a fair point, but it wasn't the players of those times fault. They still accomplished what they accomplished.



It was partly their fault for being gutless cowards. They accomplished what they did against inferior competition.

I'll go get the garbage truck, back it right up to HoF and you go in and get the plaques, start with Cobb. And if anyone gives you any lip you have my permission to smack them.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:00 pm

Well I think you're being a bit extreme in placing too much blame on everyone and anyone who lived and played in those days. Plus, their accomplishments were against plenty of incredible ball players. HOFers played against HOFers you know.

If we do this though are we gonna wear any cool masks or anything? Martin Van Buren and Rutherford B. Hayes maybe?
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:16 pm

I just find baseball, the HoF voters in particular to be a cabal of unfathomable hypocrites. If you're going to use "competitive advantage" or the laughable "integrity of the game" as a reason to keep players out.... but maybe being a vicious racist that stabs people doesn't hurt the game's integrity. Especially if it never really existed in the first place.


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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:34 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:they should be left open for you to bitch about the Yankees potentially using the law to get more money (legally, ya know, because a contract is a legal document and they can't get money back if it's not.... well.... legal).


Ha.

Forgive me and anyone else who would enjoy the poetic justice of seeing one of the Yankees way-overpaid contracts come back to bite them in the butt big time. The point in this thread has been partly about the legality of it (what ARod's contract states, etc), but also about the gratification to Yankee haters if the Yankees have to pay $100 mill to a washed up and now suspended former all-star. For that matter, as much as I am not an ARod fan, I would actually wish that ARod would not have been caught. I would rather him play out his contract in his washed up manner and cost the Yankees what they signed him for. Screw the PEDs.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:22 am

e0y2e3 wrote:BTW: I do wonder if insurance won't just pick up his contract while he's suspended too, which would essentially mean you all can WAAAHMBULANCE over that instead.


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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby 1Perry » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:19 am

e0y2e3 wrote:This is the dumbest thread ever.

If he violated his contract the Yankees should be able to get out from under it and every fan, team, GM and coach should support that. Forcing a team illegally to pay for a violated contract would not only ruin the sport, it would be the most egregious means of giving players the right to do whatever they want ever seen.

Christ anyone bitching about the Yankees getting money out of this while ignoring that if a contract was violated it legally should not be paid is not just an effing dipshit, they are also a whiny bitch.


The Yankee's knew he was a PED user when they signed him up.
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Re: PED suspensions

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:20 am

bookelly wrote:
OldDawg wrote:
Adverb Harry wrote:
OldDawg wrote:Oh, and btw, the Yankees still owe him over $100 million on his contract.


Ban or not, they should still be on the hook for that contract, just for being stupid enough to give it to him.


I saw on the tube that the Yankees only owe him $90 million. But I believe they still owe him $13 million yet this year, so it is over $100 mill.

Reports are saying a 214 game suspension.
http://tracking.si.com/2013/08/03/repor ... =mlb_t2_a2


Better be with pay. Or the Players Union should have a shit fit. Think about all the bad contracts out there. Now imagine a team being able to get out of said contract by drumming up a PED charge (true or not) and voiding the contract. If I'm a clean player, I'd STILL have to be on the side of A-Rod getting his money. Otherwise it sets a horrible precedent.


Braun's suspension was without pay, as I'm sure all of these will. Kinda defeats the purpose of suspending someone if you continue to pay them. That's called vacation.

As has been mentioned, the player's union is one of the strongest unions in the universe, and they aren't pushing back very hard. These clowns must have really left a nice trail of evidence for all to see if they are all willing to take a 50 game suspension without balking.

They deserve what they get. I can't feel bad for them, considering most of them make more in one season that probably all of us do in our lifetime.
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