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Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

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Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby jb » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:58 am

Anyone feeling optimistic?
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:14 am

^^^^

Middle aged guy who has heart attack, survives, dedicates 6 months to eating right, exercising, etc. Time passes, guy forgets the pain, gets fat, eats like shit, has heart attack.

Lather, rinse, repeat on the "optimism" thread in July.

Oh... in case I didn't answer the question: No.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby googleeph2 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:30 am

I am confident they will be interesting. Baby steps.

If it were the off. and def. coordinators who handed me the Kool Aid, I'd be doing shooters.

Maybe jello shots off of, I mean with, the Bone Lady.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby jb » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:43 am

Mixing the drank for list:

Weeds playing well and emerging as a solid QB; best we've had since 94
Little taking the next step to "good" NFL WR
T Rich stopping his Denny Terrio Tribute
Owens at outside CB playing serviceable ball, not slot as in ATL
Krueger not just a function of playing in purple with T-Rex
The DL
Haden taking it up to elite
Norv getting this bunch to look like pros


Wake me up when September ends list:

TRich staying healthy
The emergence of Shaun Lauvao
Josh Gordon staying clean and playing consistently
Shrine's technique improvement
Mingo doing anything but a handful of speed plays
The Sheard Kennard Lang transition
Tae Gibson or Johnson Addibisi resembling a quality NFL FS
Ray Horton as anything but Rob Ryan
The OL equaling the sum of it's parts in run blocking
TJ ward and quality pass coverage

The sooper-meh list:

Jordan Cameron not knowing where to be
Therefore, using the TE
Any depth at all other than DL and surviving injuries
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:26 am

I am interested enough to pay attention.

I just feel like there are too many unanswered questions. Not all of them will have a positive answer as the season kicks into gear. This is probably a 6 win team.

Mindless optimism (or pessimism) is fun and all, but I acknowledge that it is fundamentally useless. I don't have to be optimistic to want to watch these games.

And any Deney Terrio reference gets a :clap:
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:44 am

Hikohadon wrote:I am interested enough to pay attention.

I just feel like there are too many unanswered questions. Not all of them will have a positive answer as the season kicks into gear. This is probably a 6 win team.

Mindless optimism (or pessimism) is fun and all, but I acknowledge that it is fundamentally useless. I don't have to be optimistic to want to watch these games.

And any Deney Terrio reference gets a :clap:


So as I look at my TCF wall calendar and cross reference it with my Cleveland sports lunar cycle map, that means you're approximately 12 weeks away for your "I don't care anymore" stage and your give-a-shit being busted, correct?

;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby jb » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:53 am

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:I am interested enough to pay attention.

I just feel like there are too many unanswered questions. Not all of them will have a positive answer as the season kicks into gear. This is probably a 6 win team.

Mindless optimism (or pessimism) is fun and all, but I acknowledge that it is fundamentally useless. I don't have to be optimistic to want to watch these games.

And any Deney Terrio reference gets a :clap:


So as I look at my TCF wall calendar and cross reference it with my Cleveland sports lunar cycle map, that means you're approximately 12 weeks away for your "I don't care anymore" stage and your give-a-shit being busted, correct?

;-) ;) :wink:


I can't wait until Weeden is a top 15 QB this year and you have to back peddle on all you words you sardonic son of a bitch.

Woof woof Ginger.

Woof woof Chud.

Woof wood me.


:nanner:

(How's that for proof of the lunar cycle?)
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:02 pm

Well, I truly believe the best Weeds you're ever gonna see is this year's Weeds. He's at the tail end of his physical prime and he has a staff that's got a history of making more of a QB than others.

It's just hard to elevate 'dim' to 'elite' IMO.

So if 6-10 or 7-9 followed by 8-8 or 9-7 is what optimism is all about, there's that.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:54 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:I am interested enough to pay attention.

I just feel like there are too many unanswered questions. Not all of them will have a positive answer as the season kicks into gear. This is probably a 6 win team.

Mindless optimism (or pessimism) is fun and all, but I acknowledge that it is fundamentally useless. I don't have to be optimistic to want to watch these games.

And any Deney Terrio reference gets a :clap:


So as I look at my TCF wall calendar and cross reference it with my Cleveland sports lunar cycle map, that means you're approximately 12 weeks away for your "I don't care anymore" stage and your give-a-shit being busted, correct?

;-) ;) :wink:


Giveashit's still broken. I said I was interested to watch them, not excited. There are many teams that I'm interested to watch. I'm interested to see how EJ Manuel does in Buffalo. If he blows goats, it won't really affect me one way or the other.

I'll get excited about the Browns when/if they're 6-4 or better.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:59 pm

peeker643 wrote:He's at the tail end of his physical prime


Peeks musta started popping Viagra and Geritol at 32.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:11 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:He's at the tail end of his physical prime


Peeks musta started popping Viagra and Geritol at 32.


Nah... I'm sure Weeds defies science and physiology given he's a Browns guy. He'd be old and on the down side if he was in KC or Philadelphia or somewhere.

The good news is that with an uber-athlete like Weeden or Vick, even their downside athletically is heads and tails above most other guys in the league.

Even then he should be able to rely on that off the charts football IQ for years after his athletic prime.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:33 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:He's at the tail end of his physical prime


Peeks musta started popping Viagra and Geritol at 32.


Nah... I'm sure Weeds defies science and physiology given he's a Browns guy. He'd be old and on the down side if he was in KC or Philadelphia or somewhere.

The good news is that with an uber-athlete like Weeden or Vick, even their downside athletically is heads and tails above most other guys in the league.


^^^^ The Sharknado of posts. Stupid, makes no sense, but entertaining nonetheless.

Tom Brady turned 30 in 2007. Drew Brees at the end of the 2008 season. Peyton Manning in 2006. Kurt Warner in 2001. Favre in 2000. Why did no one tell these men that they were at the tail end of their careers? Woulda saved them lots of embarrassing seasons.

Weeden wouldn't be old and on the downside if he was anywhere - he's been in the league one year and he's a pocket QB. I start to worry about QB's like him - ALL QB's, not just him - losing their arm around 35 or so.

At 30, my reservations with him are all about his head, not his arm. I think he will fail because of mental shortcomings. Physically, he's fine.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby jb » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:48 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:He's at the tail end of his physical prime


Peeks musta started popping Viagra and Geritol at 32.


Nah... I'm sure Weeds defies science and physiology given he's a Browns guy. He'd be old and on the down side if he was in KC or Philadelphia or somewhere.

The good news is that with an uber-athlete like Weeden or Vick, even their downside athletically is heads and tails above most other guys in the league.


^^^^ The Sharknado of posts. Stupid, makes no sense, but entertaining nonetheless.

Tom Brady turned 30 in 2007. Drew Brees at the end of the 2008 season. Peyton Manning in 2006. Kurt Warner in 2001. Favre in 2000. Why did no one tell these men that they were at the tail end of their careers? Woulda saved them lots of embarrassing seasons.

Weeden wouldn't be old and on the downside if he was anywhere - he's been in the league one year and he's a pocket QB. I start to worry about QB's like him - ALL QB's, not just him - losing their arm around 35 or so.

At 30, my reservations with him are all about his head, not his arm. I think he will fail because of mental shortcomings. Physically, he's fine.


Like I tried to tell peeker. Lot's of effective pocket QB's play until they are 40.

(I just did that to be as a$$.)
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:07 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:He's at the tail end of his physical prime


Peeks musta started popping Viagra and Geritol at 32.


Nah... I'm sure Weeds defies science and physiology given he's a Browns guy. He'd be old and on the down side if he was in KC or Philadelphia or somewhere.

The good news is that with an uber-athlete like Weeden or Vick, even their downside athletically is heads and tails above most other guys in the league.


^^^^ The Sharknado of posts. Stupid, makes no sense, but entertaining nonetheless.

Tom Brady turned 30 in 2007. Drew Brees at the end of the 2008 season. Peyton Manning in 2006. Kurt Warner in 2001. Favre in 2000. Why did no one tell these men that they were at the tail end of their careers? Woulda saved them lots of embarrassing seasons.

Weeden wouldn't be old and on the downside if he was anywhere - he's been in the league one year and he's a pocket QB. I start to worry about QB's like him - ALL QB's, not just him - losing their arm around 35 or so.

At 30, my reservations with him are all about his head, not his arm. I think he will fail because of mental shortcomings. Physically, he's fine.


Reading is hard.

I never said he was on the downside of his career. I said he was on the downside of his physical prime which is generally considered 25-32. To be fair, he was on the downside of that factor when he was drafted so it was no fault of his own. Actually, in general terms it's no one's fault ever that they decline physically. It's natural. It's also why many teams eschew the nearly 30-yr old draftees, fwiw.

And it's nice to see Weeden mentioned in the same breath as Brady, Brees, Manning, Warner and Favre. I could get used to that.

So, to sum up, he is on the downside physically and I agree that that pesky little mental side of things is an even bigger issue. Just wish there would have been some way to know about those things when he was coming out of school...

But ya know what? I don't even want to go down the road much traveled again. We'll know soon enough what he is and whether it's enough. He's going to get every opportunity to be what he can be. Hopefully it's more Kurt Warner than Werner Klemperer.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:08 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:He's at the tail end of his physical prime


Peeks musta started popping Viagra and Geritol at 32.


Nah... I'm sure Weeds defies science and physiology given he's a Browns guy. He'd be old and on the down side if he was in KC or Philadelphia or somewhere.

The good news is that with an uber-athlete like Weeden or Vick, even their downside athletically is heads and tails above most other guys in the league.


^^^^ The Sharknado of posts. Stupid, makes no sense, but entertaining nonetheless.

Tom Brady turned 30 in 2007. Drew Brees at the end of the 2008 season. Peyton Manning in 2006. Kurt Warner in 2001. Favre in 2000. Why did no one tell these men that they were at the tail end of their careers? Woulda saved them lots of embarrassing seasons.

Weeden wouldn't be old and on the downside if he was anywhere - he's been in the league one year and he's a pocket QB. I start to worry about QB's like him - ALL QB's, not just him - losing their arm around 35 or so.

At 30, my reservations with him are all about his head, not his arm. I think he will fail because of mental shortcomings. Physically, he's fine.


Speaking of jumping the Sharknado

You just compared 10 or so Super Bowl appearances to a guy who, just last year, had to be taught how to take a snap from under center? Is that what I just read?

In order to have diminishing skills as you age you need to have had skills at one point in your career. :hide:
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:14 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:He's at the tail end of his physical prime


Peeks musta started popping Viagra and Geritol at 32.


Nah... I'm sure Weeds defies science and physiology given he's a Browns guy. He'd be old and on the down side if he was in KC or Philadelphia or somewhere.

The good news is that with an uber-athlete like Weeden or Vick, even their downside athletically is heads and tails above most other guys in the league.


^^^^ The Sharknado of posts. Stupid, makes no sense, but entertaining nonetheless.

Tom Brady turned 30 in 2007. Drew Brees at the end of the 2008 season. Peyton Manning in 2006. Kurt Warner in 2001. Favre in 2000. Why did no one tell these men that they were at the tail end of their careers? Woulda saved them lots of embarrassing seasons.

Weeden wouldn't be old and on the downside if he was anywhere - he's been in the league one year and he's a pocket QB. I start to worry about QB's like him - ALL QB's, not just him - losing their arm around 35 or so.

At 30, my reservations with him are all about his head, not his arm. I think he will fail because of mental shortcomings. Physically, he's fine.


Speaking of jumping the Sharknado

You just compared 10 or so Super Bowl appearances to a guy who, just last year, had to be taught how to take a snap from under center? Is that what I just read?

In order to have diminishing skills as you age you need to have had skills at one point in your career. :hide:


I thought it was solely because Chris Weinke, John Beck and Josh Booty didn't fit the argument Hiko was trying to make.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:24 pm

Sorry, this is what I was referring to with those seemingly random names above. Saw this before the draft this year but the Browns weren't in danger of grabbing a QB again that I cared about.

Again, just food for thought.

http://rotoviz.com/index.php/2013/04/3122/

http://rotoviz.com/index.php/2013/04/fu ... prospects/
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby jb » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:35 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:He's at the tail end of his physical prime


Peeks musta started popping Viagra and Geritol at 32.


Nah... I'm sure Weeds defies science and physiology given he's a Browns guy. He'd be old and on the down side if he was in KC or Philadelphia or somewhere.

The good news is that with an uber-athlete like Weeden or Vick, even their downside athletically is heads and tails above most other guys in the league.


^^^^ The Sharknado of posts. Stupid, makes no sense, but entertaining nonetheless.

Tom Brady turned 30 in 2007. Drew Brees at the end of the 2008 season. Peyton Manning in 2006. Kurt Warner in 2001. Favre in 2000. Why did no one tell these men that they were at the tail end of their careers? Woulda saved them lots of embarrassing seasons.

Weeden wouldn't be old and on the downside if he was anywhere - he's been in the league one year and he's a pocket QB. I start to worry about QB's like him - ALL QB's, not just him - losing their arm around 35 or so.

At 30, my reservations with him are all about his head, not his arm. I think he will fail because of mental shortcomings. Physically, he's fine.


Reading is hard.

I never said he was on the downside of his career. I said he was on the downside of his physical prime which is generally considered 25-32. To be fair, he was on the downside of that factor when he was drafted so it was no fault of his own. Actually, in general terms it's no one's fault ever that they decline physically. It's natural. It's also why many teams eschew the nearly 30-yr old draftees, fwiw.

And it's nice to see Weeden mentioned in the same breath as Brady, Brees, Manning, Warner and Favre. I could get used to that.

So, to sum up, he is on the downside physically and I agree that that pesky little mental side of things is an even bigger issue. Just wish there would have been some way to know about those things when he was coming out of school...

But ya know what? I don't even want to go down the road much traveled again. We'll know soon enough what he is and whether it's enough. He's going to get every opportunity to be what he can be. Hopefully it's more Kurt Warner than Werner Klemperer.



Dude, with that monicle he could really see the small NFL windows down field.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:36 pm

peeker643 wrote:I thought it was solely because Chris Weinke, John Beck and Josh Booty didn't fit the argument Hiko was trying to make.


They fit just fine. They were just as bad at 35 as they were at 25. They didn't fail because they turned 30 and their arms fell off and they hit some magical physical prime wall.
Last edited by Hikohadon on Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:40 pm

mattvan1 wrote:Speaking of jumping the Sharknado

You just compared 10 or so Super Bowl appearances to a guy who, just last year, had to be taught how to take a snap from under center? Is that what I just read?

In order to have diminishing skills as you age you need to have had skills at one point in your career. :hide:


I would've hoped that was obvious. I wasn't "comparing" any of those QB's to Weeden, just using them as data points that 30 isn't a physical cliff. Not many QB's get to start into their mid-30's unless they're pretty good in the first place, so there aren't a ton of opportunities for me to say "Clearly, Derek Anderson's arm was just as strong as it ever was well into his 30's".

But, if you like, I'm sure that Jeff George's inaccurate arm wasn't noticeably weaker at 35 than at 25. That might be a more apt comparison if you feel the need to compare the QB's I mention to Weeds.

My only point was that if Weeden is going to become good, then there's no reason he shouldn't remain at that physical level into his mid 30's at least. If he is to remain meh as many of us suspect, it won't matter. I was just pointing out that the whole age thing that Brian likes to bring up is stupid and useless, much like Brian himself. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby jb » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:43 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:Speaking of jumping the Sharknado

You just compared 10 or so Super Bowl appearances to a guy who, just last year, had to be taught how to take a snap from under center? Is that what I just read?

In order to have diminishing skills as you age you need to have had skills at one point in your career. :hide:


I would've hoped that was obvious. I wasn't "comparing" any of those QB's to Weeden, just using them as data points that 30 isn't a physical cliff. Not many QB's get to start into their mid-30's unless they're pretty good in the first place, so there aren't a ton of opportunities for me to say "Clearly, Derek Anderson's arm was just as strong as it ever was well into his 30's".

But, if you like, I'm sure that Jeff George's inaccurate arm wasn't noticeably weaker at 35 than at 25. That might be a more apt comparison if you feel the need to compare the QB's I mention to Weeds.

My only point was that if Weeden is going to become good, then there's no reason he shouldn't remain at that physical level into his mid 30's at least. If he is to remain meh as many of us suspect, it won't matter. I was just pointing out that the whole age thing that Brian likes to bring up is stupid and useless, much like Brian himself. ;-) ;) :wink:



Those who harp on Weeds age miss the point: the first time the Zombie Browns have a decent QB for 4 seasons will be 3 1/2 more seasons than ever, even if it is only 4. With "4" being a wholly unscientific and arbitrary number pulled out my corn hole.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:45 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:Speaking of jumping the Sharknado

You just compared 10 or so Super Bowl appearances to a guy who, just last year, had to be taught how to take a snap from under center? Is that what I just read?

In order to have diminishing skills as you age you need to have had skills at one point in your career. :hide:


I would've hoped that was obvious. I wasn't "comparing" any of those QB's to Weeden, just using them as data points that 30 isn't a physical cliff. Not many QB's get to start into their mid-30's unless they're pretty good in the first place, so there aren't a ton of opportunities for me to say "Clearly, Derek Anderson's arm was just as strong as it ever was well into his 30's".

But, if you like, I'm sure that Jeff George's inaccurate arm wasn't noticeably weaker at 35 than at 25. That might be a more apt comparison if you feel the need to compare the QB's I mention to Weeds.

My only point was that if Weeden is going to become good, then there's no reason he shouldn't remain at that physical level into his mid 30's at least. If he is to remain meh as many of us suspect, it won't matter. I was just pointing out that the whole age thing that Brian likes to bring up is stupid and useless, much like Brian himself. ;-) ;) :wink:



Those who harp on Weeds age miss the point: the first time the Zombie Browns have a decent QB for 4 seasons will be 3 1/2 more seasons than ever, even if it is only 4. With "4" being a wholly unscientific and arbitrary number pulled out my corn hole.


Shee-it, I'll take 2 at this point. 2 years in a row with good QB play would be incomprehensible. Not putting money on even that.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:03 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:Speaking of jumping the Sharknado

You just compared 10 or so Super Bowl appearances to a guy who, just last year, had to be taught how to take a snap from under center? Is that what I just read?

In order to have diminishing skills as you age you need to have had skills at one point in your career. :hide:


I would've hoped that was obvious. I wasn't "comparing" any of those QB's to Weeden, just using them as data points that 30 isn't a physical cliff. Not many QB's get to start into their mid-30's unless they're pretty good in the first place, so there aren't a ton of opportunities for me to say "Clearly, Derek Anderson's arm was just as strong as it ever was well into his 30's".

But, if you like, I'm sure that Jeff George's inaccurate arm wasn't noticeably weaker at 35 than at 25. That might be a more apt comparison if you feel the need to compare the QB's I mention to Weeds.

My only point was that if Weeden is going to become good, then there's no reason he shouldn't remain at that physical level into his mid 30's at least. If he is to remain meh as many of us suspect, it won't matter. I was just pointing out that the whole age thing that Brian likes to bring up is stupid and useless, much like Brian himself. ;-) ;) :wink:



Those who harp on Weeds age miss the point: the first time the Zombie Browns have a decent QB for 4 seasons will be 3 1/2 more seasons than ever, even if it is only 4. With "4" being a wholly unscientific and arbitrary number pulled out my corn hole.


Been through all of this. There's no one behind this keyboard missing that point. There's no one behind this keyboard who doesn't put the QBs arm and fact he's nearly 30 well behind the fact that he's a dim fucking bulb and he better get smarter faster than he gets older.

It's simply not missing the point to understand the fact the Browns QBs have blown and yet to laugh at and be skeptical of what they've done and who they've acquired to 'rectify' that. Maybe it's simply my fault for not having faith in the guys that paid Jake Delhomme Warren Buffet money to blow here and then drafted Coltastic in thinking that their ~30 yr old, dumb kid is going to pan out.

Maybe this is the one thing that Holmgren nailed!!! Because we want it to be!!! :thumb up:

Try and simplify the concept for you by telling you that my old, German grandfather had a little sign on the wall heading down to his basement. It said: "Ve Get Too Soon Oldt, und Too Late Schmardt".

And some people never get there.

Time will tell. Would I take 2-4 years of top flight QB play? Fuck yes.

What that has to do with Brandon Weeden? I have absolutely no freaking clue.

I hate you trolls ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:15 pm

The biggest factor as to whether Weeds will be playing between the ages of 35-40 boils down to if he's good. If he ends up being at least good, he can play for 10 years, as long as he gets a modicum of protection.

His age is kind of irrelevant really, at least when talking about wins and losses and on field results. Plus to be fair and accurate let's remember he has a few years less of hits on him than most NFL QBs his age.

He'll be what he is going to be, it's just a matter of if it is sooner or later.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:27 pm

FUDU wrote:The biggest factor as to whether Weeds will be playing between the ages of 35-40 boils down to if he's good. If he ends up being at least good, he can play for 10 years, as long as he gets a modicum of protection.

His age is kind of irrelevant really, at least when talking about wins and losses and on field results. Plus to be fair and accurate let's remember he has a few years less of hits on him than most NFL QBs his age.

He'll be what he is going to be, it's just a matter of if it is sooner or later.


It's a factor. It's not as big a factor as other factors. But I have far more faith that a 21 or 22 yr old can be more than what he is and develop either leadership tendencies and make more intelligent decisions than I do that a 30 yr old will develop those tendencies or make more intelligent decisions.

IMO Weeden has a fatal flaw that will forever limit him and I'm simply not sure whether it's intelligence, leadership or balls. The lack of any of the three is probably going to doom any QB and it's something that bothers me when you watch him play or listen to him speak.

I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:33 pm

peeker643 wrote:
FUDU wrote:The biggest factor as to whether Weeds will be playing between the ages of 35-40 boils down to if he's good. If he ends up being at least good, he can play for 10 years, as long as he gets a modicum of protection.

His age is kind of irrelevant really, at least when talking about wins and losses and on field results. Plus to be fair and accurate let's remember he has a few years less of hits on him than most NFL QBs his age.

He'll be what he is going to be, it's just a matter of if it is sooner or later.


It's a factor. It's not as big a factor as other factors. But I have far more faith that a 21 or 22 yr old can be more than what he is and develop either leadership tendencies and make more intelligent decisions than I do that a 30 yr old will develop those tendencies or make more intelligent decisions.

IMO Weeden has a fatal flaw that will forever limit him and I'm simply not sure whether it's intelligence, leadership or balls. The lack of any of the three is probably going to doom any QB and it's something that bothers me when you watch him play or listen to him speak.

I hope I'm wrong.

The argument can be made that his age is actually a plus in terms of turning into a leader and making better on field decisions. A 30yo in any walk of life is more mature and wiser than a 21yo (at least 99% of the time, I assume you agree), so just b/c we're specifically talking about NFL QBs doesn't and shouldn't change that.

As far as Weeds not having balls, I think that is an unfair generalization based on incomplete data, simply b/c we don't know if he has had such a green light (enter Shurmur?). If Chud/Norm are as aggressive as advertised then I think the end of this season would be fair for you to judge that.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby bac5665 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:48 pm

I think the playcalling was so atrociously bad last year that it was impossible to evaluate Weeds.

It was clear the coaching staff wasn't coaching him well enough, and it was unclear whether that was his fault or their fault. I'm more inclined to assume that Childress was incompetent than I am Weeds.

Basically, last year was a lost year. Weeds showed flashes of suck and flashes of awesome. And he did it among some truly terrible circumstances, given the horrible, horrible, playcalling.

Weeds has this year. If he's good, awesome, if he's not fuck.

But no one knows which he's going to be. And pretending you do is just sad.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby jb » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:18 pm

FUDU wrote:The biggest factor as to whether Weeds will be playing between the ages of 35-40 boils down to if he's good. If he ends up being at least good, he can play for 10 years, as long as he gets a modicum of protection.

His age is kind of irrelevant really, at least when talking about wins and losses and on field results. Plus to be fair and accurate let's remember he has a few years less of hits on him than most NFL QBs his age.

He'll be what he is going to be, it's just a matter of if it is sooner or later.



Key-rhyst. Now I'm reduced to agreeing with FUDU.

The issue isn't age so much as competence.

Now that we're there the next logical step is recognizing that it takes new QBs entering the NFL who aren't those that make plays on athleticism or surrounded by talent a year or two to see what's what. Last year we saw some ups and downs. This year we'll be able to better evaluate. By year 4 we'll know what Weeds is or is not. Not year two. Year two we'll at least know enough to know whether there ought to be a year three.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby jb » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:21 pm

peeker643 wrote:
IMO Weeden has a fatal flaw that will forever limit him



We're aware of that.

You pointed it out pre-draft.

You pointed it out on draft night (I think. Shots and all....)

And you've pointed it out every day since.

We ll know you made your mind up about Weeds the first second you watched tour 4th you tube clip and read Joe Billies' draft preview site.

You've never had an open mind toward whether or not he could play, improve; whatever.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:33 pm

Peeker, do you think Brandon Weeden can be "the guy" for the Browns this season?

I'll hang up and listen.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:07 pm

FUDU wrote:His age is kind of irrelevant really,.


Of course it is. The age argument is as ignorant as they come. Nothing makes me turn the station faster than some mouth breather calling in to play the old man card.

There are plenty enough reasons to have your doubts about Weeden without making shit up.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:09 pm

jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:The biggest factor as to whether Weeds will be playing between the ages of 35-40 boils down to if he's good. If he ends up being at least good, he can play for 10 years, as long as he gets a modicum of protection.

His age is kind of irrelevant really, at least when talking about wins and losses and on field results. Plus to be fair and accurate let's remember he has a few years less of hits on him than most NFL QBs his age.

He'll be what he is going to be, it's just a matter of if it is sooner or later.



Key-rhyst. Now I'm reduced to agreeing with FUDU.

The issue isn't age so much as competence.

Now that we're there the next logical step is recognizing that it takes new QBs entering the NFL who aren't those that make plays on athleticism or surrounded by talent a year or two to see what's what. Last year we saw some ups and downs. This year we'll be able to better evaluate. By year 4 we'll know what Weeds is or is not. Not year two. Year two we'll at least know enough to know whether there ought to be a year three.


If I agree with the last paragraph, then how the hell is age not a factor for a 29 year old rookie on the 4 year plan?

Again, bigger factor is what he brings to the table, however, developing a guy just in time for physical declination....that's gotta count for something.

And the reason Hiko brought up all kinda big names as gar as mid-late 30's success is cause the list of guys that blew from 22 on never make it to 30. Not a whole lotta comparables here. Which is kinda the point.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:17 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
IMO Weeden has a fatal flaw that will forever limit him



We're aware of that.

You pointed it out pre-draft.

You pointed it out on draft night (I think. Shots and all....)

And you've pointed it out every day since.

We ll know you made your mind up about Weeds the first second you watched tour 4th you tube clip and read Joe Billies' draft preview site.

You've never had an open mind toward whether or not he could play, improve; whatever.


Not gonna speak for Peeker, but sincin' I had the same opinion on draft night....not anything to do with having an "open mind," for me it has a whole lot to do with discounting basically everything he did collegiately in that joke of a conference. Weeden, Colty, Geno...any of the 9,000 guys TTech ran out there to break records, K State feau Heisman canidates, Chase Daniel.....Not really sure what Brandon Weeden showed more than ANY of the above, save perhaps better pro size/strength.

With an NFL passing game that's predicated on quick analyzations and decisions, sitting back there and throwing to your first option open by 20 yards ain't really preparin' you for what's coming.

BEST case scenario was a 28/29 year old PROJECT.

My mind is open, if he plays well. I'm all for it. What kind of evidence ANYONE could have of this happening at the pro level....I guess that's what they are paid for.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:20 pm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GannRi00.htm

I think Rich Gannon is an under used example of a lot of what we argue about RE Weeds, in terms of surrounding circumstances (talent, coaching, system) and "getting it" and how quickly.

I don't recall the scouting report on him out of Delaware in terms of his athleticism, but I do know he was surviving in the NFL making all his plays with his legs. Dude was physically past his prime when he finally hit his peak and became a legit NFL QB that could hurt you.

Just sayin. Weeds has enough physical tools to survive in this league, and I don't think anybody anywhere would ever suggest he could progress to a top level without help.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby jb » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:21 pm

leadpipe wrote:If I agree with the last paragraph, then how the hell is age not a factor for a 29 year old rookie on the 4 year plan?


I'll type slower Piper.

We haven't had a run of good QB play worth a shit for more than a half season since 1994.


Let's say Weed take 4 years to hit peak and started here at 29. The ramp up to peak will have to be "good" starting this year for him to keep a lease on life. In 4 years he'll be what, 33? let's say to Hiko's point his style of QB play allows him to play well until he's 36 and that's 3 seasons.

Name me the last time we had a QB play here who played well for 5 or 6 seasons?

I can worry about his replacement in 6 years so long as he can play worth a damn. You don't have to limit your QB search to a guy who is there for a decade or more.

The question remains whether he can play or not.

My OPINION, and that's just it, is that he was rated highly enough and has enough tools so that he has a legitimate shot, as opposed to a 3rd round flier. I'll keep an open mind given what he showed last season rather than fatally writing him off.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:27 pm

leadpipe wrote:If I agree with the last paragraph, then how the hell is age not a factor for a 29 year old rookie on the 4 year plan?

Again, bigger factor is what he brings to the table, however, developing a guy just in time for physical declination....that's gotta count for something.


I will agree that age is probably a factor when it comes to "how many years the front office gives you", especially when said front office didn't draft you. There is no 4 year plan. Course Blaine Gabbert ain't gettin' a 3rd season either, and he's 23. So maybe your window is just narrow as shit in the NFL.

If Weeden were to reach NFL peak after 4 years and that peak was actually good, then he's still only 32 and if someone offered me a 32 year old Brady/Brees etc. I'd take them in a heartbeat and just assume the window of opportunity is 3-4 years. Unless he's showing signs of physical declination, I'd never assume a 32 year old will be falling off a cliff anytime soon.

This isn't a kick returner or a corner, this is a pocket passer, gents.

The age question doesn't matter anyway - he doesn't improve (a lot) this year, he's gone. If he does improve (a lot), then you ride that wave even if it hits shore earlier than you'd like. No one knows when that physical declination will be. Bernie hit his around 28 (apparently). Brady's 36 and is still going strong. Whether Weeden's good or not is the only factor that matters.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:32 pm

jb wrote:
leadpipe wrote:If I agree with the last paragraph, then how the hell is age not a factor for a 29 year old rookie on the 4 year plan?


I'll type slower Piper.

We haven't had a run of good QB play worth a shit for more than a half season since 1994.


Let's say Weed take 4 years to hit peak and started here at 29. The ramp up to peak will have to be "good" starting this year for him to keep a lease on life. In 4 years he'll be what, 33? let's say to Hiko's point his style of QB play allows him to play well until he's 36 and that's 3 seasons.

Name me the last time we had a QB play here who played well for 5 or 6 seasons?

I can worry about his replacement in 6 years so long as he can play worth a damn. You don't have to limit your QB search to a guy who is there for a decade or more.

The question remains whether he can play or not.

My OPINION, and that's just it, is that he was rated highly enough and has enough tools so that he has a legitimate shot, as opposed to a 3rd round flier. I'll keep an open mind given what he showed last season rather than fatally writing him off.

Yep.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:39 pm

leadpipe wrote:Not really sure what Brandon Weeden showed more than ANY of the above, save perhaps better pro size/strength.


That's all you need.

Prototypical size, above average arm strength, performed well in big games, good stats... that's enough to make him a high-end NFL prospect. RG3 came out of the B12. Bradford came out of the B12. The B12 guys you mentioned that failed did so because they lacked requisite physical qualities, qualities that a lot of college QB's from every conference don't have but Weeden did.

Someone's always gonna look at that and say "I am brilliant enough to harness that power!"

Whether the coaches are actually brilliant enough to use him properly, whether he's intelligent enough to read the NFL game, whether he'll be able to process information quickly enough and make the correct decisions... those are things that can't be known. You can guess at them, but since they aren't known factors, talent evaluators will still take chances.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby bookelly » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:29 pm

It was touched on briefly above; but considering the level of absolute suck that was Pat Shurmer and the fact that the Browns actually stayed in most of the games they played last year...I'm optimistic this will be a better squad.

That said, an entirely new defense with gapping holes in an already stretched secondary does not bode well. They've really only built one half of this defense. An injury to Ward or Haden and this ship will sink like a rock.

I do think the offense will be greatly improved though (no more SHUR) so there is a chance they do something special...like play .500 ball. Hell, if they really catch a break and the O-line and secondary stay healthy, maybe 9-7 and we're sniffing a WC spot.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:43 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Not really sure what Brandon Weeden showed more than ANY of the above, save perhaps better pro size/strength.


That's all you need.

Prototypical size, above average arm strength, performed well in big games, good stats... that's enough to make him a high-end NFL prospect. RG3 came out of the B12. Bradford came out of the B12. The B12 guys you mentioned that failed did so because they lacked requisite physical qualities, qualities that a lot of college QB's from every conference don't have but Weeden did.

Someone's always gonna look at that and say "I am brilliant enough to harness that power!"

Whether the coaches are actually brilliant enough to use him properly, whether he's intelligent enough to read the NFL game, whether he'll be able to process information quickly enough and make the correct decisions... those are things that can't be known. You can guess at them, but since they aren't known factors, talent evaluators will still take chances.


I would argue that they failed because they were operating in an environment that wasn't CLOSE to an NFL Sunday as much as them lacking the physical qualities. Therefore, it's not necessarily the physical qualities - it's, as you mention, the fact that they are waaay behind the curve in the processing department. The "Texas Tech" argument - the fact that these guys were systems QB's.....it seems to be a-ok with some people when it spreads conference wide. That's all the big 12 has been for the last 4 years or so, a GD Texas Tech circus, with no semblance of defense, and nothing resembling pro football. Not sure why this is an unresonable reason to be skeptical.

Nothing personal against Weeds, I just didn't want to touch him with the same 10 foot pole I didn't want to touch Geno Smith with. He seems to have these "Pro Physical traits," - but I saw what happened to him from the moment teams started changing defenses at the line..... we'll see what happens.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:53 pm

jb wrote:
leadpipe wrote:If I agree with the last paragraph, then how the hell is age not a factor for a 29 year old rookie on the 4 year plan?


I'll type slower Piper.

We haven't had a run of good QB play worth a shit for more than a half season since 1994.


Let's say Weed take 4 years to hit peak and started here at 29. The ramp up to peak will have to be "good" starting this year for him to keep a lease on life. In 4 years he'll be what, 33? let's say to Hiko's point his style of QB play allows him to play well until he's 36 and that's 3 seasons.

Name me the last time we had a QB play here who played well for 5 or 6 seasons?

I can worry about his replacement in 6 years so long as he can play worth a damn. You don't have to limit your QB search to a guy who is there for a decade or more.

The question remains whether he can play or not.

My OPINION, and that's just it, is that he was rated highly enough and has enough tools so that he has a legitimate shot, as opposed to a 3rd round flier. I'll keep an open mind given what he showed last season rather than fatally writing him off.


I'll type even slower...

I already acknowledged that whether he can play or not is the biggest factor.

I'm just offering my OPINION, that if you've got a project guy starting at 29, you've got an age issue.

Especially a pure pocket guy. Brady gets rid of the ball in about record time. Then there's the fact he's great. We'll get him to damn near 40 allright.

Not sure how many more immobile guys you're gonna get there as the game continues to change. Anyone wanna bet me the NFL record for total sacks gets broken this year? Cause it will. The % of pass plays will go up, and teams are hoarding anyone that can get to the QB cause they understand it's about the only way to legally defend the pass anymore. Immobile QB's are gonna have a harder time as the next few years pass, unless they can analyze and process fast. Real fast.

Which brings me full circle to my OPINION. Nothing that I'VE SEEN, from watching the Big 12, to seeing the performances of modern QB's from the Big 12, suggest they are getting a shred of preparation for the storm that's a comin' on Sundays. And if they can adjust IT WILL TAKE TIME, cause they are starting basically at square one.

We'll take the same thing JB, hell, I'll take 4 good years of QB play, and then send him behind the barn smiling. But damn man, I admire your confidence that the guy can get there conidering where he's been, what we've seen, and..ahem...the late start in life.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:06 pm

I
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:05 pm

leadpipe wrote:I would argue that they failed because they were operating in an environment that wasn't CLOSE to an NFL Sunday as much as them lacking the physical qualities. Therefore, it's not necessarily the physical qualities - it's, as you mention, the fact that they are waaay behind the curve in the processing department.


Don't disagree with that. But 30 years from now coaches/FO types will still be taking chances on Big 12 guys that have the necessary physical traits since they see them passing for 4000 yards and figure they - in their wisdom - can mold that raw talent into an NFL gem.

It only takes one Big 12 QB to be good for people to say "Yeah, but so and so came from the B12..."
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:51 am

jb wrote:
FUDU wrote:The biggest factor as to whether Weeds will be playing between the ages of 35-40 boils down to if he's good. If he ends up being at least good, he can play for 10 years, as long as he gets a modicum of protection.

His age is kind of irrelevant really, at least when talking about wins and losses and on field results. Plus to be fair and accurate let's remember he has a few years less of hits on him than most NFL QBs his age.

He'll be what he is going to be, it's just a matter of if it is sooner or later.



Key-rhyst. Now I'm reduced to agreeing with FUDU.

The issue isn't age so much as competence.

Now that we're there the next logical step is recognizing that it takes new QBs entering the NFL who aren't those that make plays on athleticism or surrounded by talent a year or two to see what's what. Last year we saw some ups and downs. This year we'll be able to better evaluate. By year 4 we'll know what Weeds is or is not. Not year two. Year two we'll at least know enough to know whether there ought to be a year three.


SD:

Your both only half right.

Regardless of record , due to his age the Browns will draft another QB next year , .

The record Weeden produces this year will determine if that pick will be a developmental choice or a number one replacement slot .

The future is now , and Weeds future is long past noon.

Banner has done an excellent job filling the roster instead of gutting and starting over , but anybody who thinks they view Weeds as the long term answer regardless of this years outcome , is smoking something you can't get at the local drive through.


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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:42 am

::doh::

Desperation pick by a desperate leadership group. Bad choice from the jump.

Nothing but vitriol and hate from the boards regarding Holmgren's tenure and yet the sheep bleat from BW and I gotta hear some half-assed gangsta poet tell me it's because of youtube and draft columns. THIS is the one Holmgren got right.

I'm sure it is.

Because apparently gangsta poet can't fucking see through his own bias and desperation while he screams about mine.

Age don't matter
Brains don't matter

He's tall
He throws hard
He was selected by Holmgren who clearly knows exactly WTF he's doing in putting together teams and building QBs

I'm done talking about this. In two years we can let you pretend you were just open minded about a a big, tall guy your team took instead of ignorant and color-blind. To answer your question posed in the thread again: I'm not, but I know a few guys who are.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby jb » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:12 am

peeker643 wrote:::doh::

Desperation pick by a desperate leadership group. Bad choice from the jump.

Nothing but vitriol and hate from the boards regarding Holmgren's tenure and yet the sheep bleat from BW and I gotta hear some half-assed gangsta poet tell me it's because of youtube and draft columns. THIS is the one Holmgren got right.

I'm sure it is.

Because apparently gangsta poet can't fucking see through his own bias and desperation while he screams about mine.

Age don't matter
Brains don't matter

He's tall
He throws hard
He was selected by Holmgren who clearly knows exactly WTF he's doing in putting together teams and building QBs

I'm done talking about this. In two years we can let you pretend you were just open minded about a a big, tall guy your team took instead of ignorant and color-blind. To answer your question posed in the thread again: I'm not, but I know a few guys who are.



IDK about anyone else but I'm glad we all got this out of the way for the start of the season.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby jb » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:21 am

leadpipe wrote:
jb wrote:
leadpipe wrote:If I agree with the last paragraph, then how the hell is age not a factor for a 29 year old rookie on the 4 year plan?


I'll type slower Piper.

We haven't had a run of good QB play worth a shit for more than a half season since 1994.


Let's say Weed take 4 years to hit peak and started here at 29. The ramp up to peak will have to be "good" starting this year for him to keep a lease on life. In 4 years he'll be what, 33? let's say to Hiko's point his style of QB play allows him to play well until he's 36 and that's 3 seasons.

Name me the last time we had a QB play here who played well for 5 or 6 seasons?

I can worry about his replacement in 6 years so long as he can play worth a damn. You don't have to limit your QB search to a guy who is there for a decade or more.

The question remains whether he can play or not.

My OPINION, and that's just it, is that he was rated highly enough and has enough tools so that he has a legitimate shot, as opposed to a 3rd round flier. I'll keep an open mind given what he showed last season rather than fatally writing him off.


I'll type even slower...

I already acknowledged that whether he can play or not is the biggest factor.

I'm just offering my OPINION, that if you've got a project guy starting at 29, you've got an age issue.

Especially a pure pocket guy. Brady gets rid of the ball in about record time. Then there's the fact he's great. We'll get him to damn near 40 allright.

Not sure how many more immobile guys you're gonna get there as the game continues to change. Anyone wanna bet me the NFL record for total sacks gets broken this year? Cause it will. The % of pass plays will go up, and teams are hoarding anyone that can get to the QB cause they understand it's about the only way to legally defend the pass anymore. Immobile QB's are gonna have a harder time as the next few years pass, unless they can analyze and process fast. Real fast.

Which brings me full circle to my OPINION. Nothing that I'VE SEEN, from watching the Big 12, to seeing the performances of modern QB's from the Big 12, suggest they are getting a shred of preparation for the storm that's a comin' on Sundays. And if they can adjust IT WILL TAKE TIME, cause they are starting basically at square one.

We'll take the same thing JB, hell, I'll take 4 good years of QB play, and then send him behind the barn smiling. But damn man, I admire your confidence that the guy can get there conidering where he's been, what we've seen, and..ahem...the late start in life.



So about all this BS about quarterbacks from the Big 12....

It isn't the college. It isn't the conference. Hell, it's questionable it is the system rather than the mechanics.

Who came after Marrk Rypien and Drew Bledsoe and played for Mike Price from the all might PAC 10?

Who came after Heath Shuler and preceded T Martin in the venerable SEC?

Hell, I'm probably missing someone patently obvious, but the SEC has long been the gold standard of college football. Much pro set I style offense run there. I can think of one family that has produced QB's worth spit in the last half decade from the pro style teams in that conference that produces stars at every other position on the field. The only other successful SEC QB starting now is a spread offense product doing so based on his immense physical talent. The irony...

Edit - I forgot Cutler. Does vandy even count as the SEC? More irony.

If Brandon Weedon struggles and fails it will be because of Brandon Weedon. The rest is sophistry.

Here's you list of QB;s:

Rk Tm Age G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD
1 Matthew Stafford DET 24 16 15 4-12-0 435 727 59.8 4967 20 2.8 17 2.3 57 6.8 6.3 11.4 310.4 79.8 58.93 29 212 6.29 5.81 3.8 3 3
2 Drew Brees* NOR 33 16 16 7-9-0 422 670 63.0 5177 43 6.4 19 2.8 80 7.7 7.7 12.3 323.6 96.3 67.86 26 190 7.17 7.17 3.7 1 2
3 Tony Romo DAL 32 16 16 8-8-0 425 648 65.6 4903 28 4.3 19 2.9 85 7.6 7.1 11.5 306.4 90.5 62.74 36 263 6.78 6.35 5.3 5 5
4 Tom Brady* NWE 35 16 16 12-4-0 401 637 63.0 4827 34 5.3 8 1.3 83 7.6 8.1 12.0 301.7 98.7 77.05 27 182 7.00 7.48 4.1 1 2
5 Andrew Luck IND 23 16 15 11-5-0 339 627 54.1 4374 23 3.7 18 2.9 70 7.0 6.4 12.9 273.4 76.5 64.99 41 246 6.18 5.66 6.1 4 7
6 Matt Ryan* ATL 27 16 15 13-3-0 422 615 68.6 4719 32 5.2 14 2.3 80 7.7 7.7 11.2 294.9 99.1 74.5 28 210 7.01 7.03 4.4 5 7
7 Peyton Manning*+ DEN 36 16 16 13-3-0 400 583 68.6 4659 37 6.3 11 1.9 71 8.0 8.4 11.6 291.2 105.8 84.11 21 137 7.49 7.89 3.5 3 3
8 Carson Palmer OAK 33 15 15 4-11-0 345 565 61.1 4018 22 3.9 14 2.5 64 7.1 6.8 11.6 267.9 85.3 44.72 26 199 6.46 6.14 4.4 2 2
9 Josh Freeman TAM 24 16 16 7-9-0 306 558 54.8 4065 27 4.8 17 3.0 95 7.3 6.9 13.3 254.1 81.6 53.13 26 161 6.68 6.30 4.5 1 1
10 Aaron Rodgers* GNB 29 16 16 11-5-0 371 552 67.2 4295 39 7.1 8 1.4 73 7.8 8.5 11.6 268.4 108.0 72.48 51 293 6.64 7.33 8.5 2 3
11 Sam Bradford STL 25 16 16 7-8-1 328 551 59.5 3702 21 3.8 13 2.4 80 6.7 6.4 11.3 231.4 82.6 51.56 35 233 5.92 5.64 6.0 4 3
12 Matt Schaub* HOU 31 16 15 12-4-0 350 544 64.3 4008 22 4.0 12 2.2 60 7.4 7.2 11.5 250.5 90.7 62.57 27 216 6.64 6.47 4.7 2 2
13 Eli Manning* NYG 31 16 16 9-7-0 321 536 59.9 3948 26 4.9 15 2.8 80 7.4 7.1 12.3 246.8 87.2 67.39 19 136 6.87 6.59 3.4 3 3
14 Joe Flacco BAL 27 16 16 10-6-0 317 531 59.7 3817 22 4.1 10 1.9 61 7.2 7.2 12.0 238.6 87.7 46.82 35 227 6.34 6.33 6.2 4 4
15 Andy Dalton CIN 25 16 16 10-6-0 329 528 62.3 3669 27 5.1 16 3.0 59 6.9 6.6 11.2 229.3 87.4 50.73 46 229 5.99 5.68 8.0 1 3
16 Philip Rivers SDG 31 16 16 7-9-0 338 527 64.1 3606 26 4.9 15 2.8 80 6.8 6.5 10.7 225.4 88.6 40.57 49 311 5.72 5.45 8.5
17 Brandon Weeden CLE 29 15 15 5-10-0 297 517 57.4 3385 14 2.7 17 3.3 71 6.5 5.6 11.4 225.7 72.6 26.6 28 186 5.87 4.98 5.1 1 1
18 Ryan Fitzpatrick BUF 30 16 15 6-10-0 306 505 60.6 3400 24 4.8 16 3.2 68 6.7 6.3 11.1 212.5 83.3 45.77 30 161 6.05 5.61 5.6 0 1
19 Cam Newton CAR 23 16 16 7-9-0 280 485 57.7 3869 19 3.9 12 2.5 82 8.0 7.6 13.8 241.8 86.2 54.22 36 244 6.96 6.65 6.9 1 1
20 Ryan Tannehill MIA 24 16 16 7-9-0 282 484 58.3 3294 12 2.5 13 2.7 80 6.8 6.1 11.7 205.9 76.1 52.28 35 234 5.90 5.23 6.7 1 1
21 Christian Ponder MIN 24 16 16 10-6-0 300 483 62.1 2935 18 3.7 12 2.5 65 6.1 5.7 9.8 183.4 81.2 53.77 32 184 5.34 4.99 6.2 1 2
22 Mark Sanchez NYJ 26 15 15 6-9-0 246 453 54.3 2883 13 2.9 18 4.0 66 6.4 5.2 11.7 192.2 66.9 23.37 34 209 5.49 4.36 7.0 1 1
23 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 30 13 13 7-6-0 284 449 63.3 3265 26 5.8 8 1.8 82 7.3 7.6 11.5 251.2 97.0 62.75 30 182 6.44 6.77 6.3 2 3
24 Jay Cutler CHI 29 15 15 10-5-0 255 434 58.8 3033 19 4.4 14 3.2 60 7.0 6.4 11.9 202.2 81.3 51.91 38 250 5.90 5.37 8.1 1 1
25 Robert Griffin III* WAS 22 15 15 9-6-0 258 393 65.6 3200 20 5.1 5 1.3 88 8.1 8.6 12.4 213.3 102.4 71.41 30 217 7.05 7.47 7.1 3 2
26 Russell Wilson SEA 24 16 16 11-5-0 252 393 64.1 3118 26 6.6 10 2.5 67 7.9 8.1 12.4 194.9 100.0 69.59 33 203 6.84 7.01 7.7 4 5
27 Michael Vick PHI 32 10 10 3-7-0 204 351 58.1 2362 12 3.4 10 2.8 77 6.7 6.1 11.6 236.2 78.1 46.03 28 153 5.83 5.27 7.4 3 3
28 Jake Locker TEN 24 11 11 4-7-0 177 314 56.4 2176 10 3.2 11 3.5 71 6.9 6.0 12.3 197.8 74.0 48.07 25 151 5.97 5.10 7.4 0 1
29 Chad Henne JAX 27 10 6 1-5-0 166 308 53.9 2084 11 3.6 11 3.6 81 6.8 5.9 12.6 208.4 72.2 29.9 28 169 5.70 4.88 8.3
Rk Tm Age G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD
30 Blaine Gabbert JAX 23 10 10 1-9-0 162 278 58.3 1662 9 3.2 6 2.2 80 6.0 5.7 10.3 166.2 77.4 40.94 22 158 5.01 4.71 7.3 1 1
31 Matt Cassel KAN 30 9 8 1-7-0 161 277 58.1 1796 6 2.2 12 4.3 46 6.5 5.0 11.2 199.6 66.7 36.54 19 101 5.73 4.31 6.4 1 1
32 Nick Foles PHI 23 7 6 1-5-0 161 265 60.8 1699 6 2.3 5 1.9 46 6.4 6.0 10.6 242.7 79.1 45.33 20 131 5.50 5.13 7.0 1 1
33 Matt Hasselbeck TEN 37 8 5 2-3-0 138 221 62.4 1367 7 3.2 5 2.3 37 6.2 5.8 9.9 170.9 81.0 48.49 14 103 5.38 5.02 6.0 2 2
34 Colin Kaepernick SFO 25 13 7 5-2-0 136 218 62.4 1814 10 4.6 3 1.4 57 8.3 8.6 13.3 139.5 98.3 76.79 16 112 7.27 7.55 6.8 2 2
35 Alex Smith SFO 28 10 9 6-2-1 153 218 70.2 1737 13 6.0 5 2.3 55 8.0 8.1 11.4 173.7 104.1 70.09 24 137 6.61 6.76 9.9
36 John Skelton ARI 24 7 6 1-5-0 109 201 54.2 1132 2 1.0 9 4.5 40 5.6 3.8 10.4 161.7 55.4 13.89 15 98 4.79 3.10 6.9 1 1
37 Brady Quinn KAN 28 10 8 1-7-0 112 197 56.9 1141 2 1.0 8 4.1 57 5.8 4.2 10.2 114.1 60.1 27.4 21 123 4.67 3.20 9.6
38 Kevin Kolb ARI 28 6 5 3-2-0 109 183 59.6 1169 8 4.4 3 1.6 46 6.4 6.5 10.7 194.8 86.1 37.96 27 159 4.81 4.93 12.9 2 2
39 Ryan Lindley ARI 23 7 4 1-3-0 89 171 52.0 752 0 0.0 7 4.1 28 4.4 2.6 8.4 107.4 46.7 9.82 12 91 3.61 1.89 6.6
40 Charlie Batch PIT 38 3 2 1-1-0 45 70 64.3 475 1 1.4 4 5.7 43 6.8 4.5 10.6 158.3 64.9 34.76 3 12 6.34 4.15 4.1 1 1
41 Brian Hoyer ARI 27 2 1 0-1-0 30 53 56.6 330 1 1.9 2 3.8 53 6.2 4.9 11.0 165.0 65.8 37.66 4 30 5.26 4.04 7.0
42 Byron Leftwich PIT 32 2 1 0-1-0 25 53 47.2 272 0 0.0 1 1.9 37 5.1 4.3 10.9 136.0 54.9 34.02 3 24 4.43 3.63 5.4 0 0
43 Jason Campbell CHI 31 6 1 0-1-0 32 51 62.7 265 2 3.9 2 3.9 45 5.2 4.2 8.3 44.2 72.8 23.49 6 49 3.79 2.91 10.5
44 Kirk Cousins WAS 24 3 1 1-0-0 33 48 68.8 466 4 8.3 3 6.3 77 9.7 8.6 14.1 155.3 101.6 72.69 3 27 8.61 7.53 5.9 1 1
45 Matt Leinart OAK 29 2 0 16 33 48.5 115 0 0.0 1 3.0 20 3.5 2.1 7.2 57.5 44.4 11.31 1 9 3.12 1.79 2.9
46 Thaddeus Lewis CLE 25 1 1 0-1-0 22 32 68.8 204 1 3.1 1 3.1 23 6.4 5.6 9.3 204.0 83.3 58.63 3 14 5.43 4.71 8.6
47 Greg McElroy NYJ 24 2 1 0-1-0 19 31 61.3 214 1 3.2 1 3.2 30 6.9 6.1 11.3 107.0 79.2 45.17 11 71 3.40 2.81 26.2 1 1
48 Terrelle Pryor OAK 23 3 1 0-1-0 14 30 46.7 155 2 6.7 1 3.3 38 5.2 5.0 11.1 51.7 70.8 59.66 0 0 5.17 5.00 0.0
49 Tyrod Taylor BAL 23 6 0 17 29 58.6 179 0 0.0 1 3.4 25 6.2 4.6 10.5 29.8 62.3 45.01 3 30 4.66 3.25 9.4
50 Matt Moore MIA 28 10 0 11 19 57.9 131 1 5.3 0 0.0 37 6.9 7.9 11.9 13.1 96.6 59.73 2 9 5.81 6.76 9.5
51 Colt McCoy CLE 25 3 0 9 17 52.9 79 1 5.9 0 0.0 21 4.6 5.8 8.8 26.3 85.2 13.1 4 25 2.57 3.52 19.0
52 Shaun Hill DET 32 1 0 10 13 76.9 172 2 15.4 0 0.0 46 13.2 16.3 17.2 172.0 157.9 76.75 0 0 13.23 16.31 0.0
53 Bruce Gradkowski CIN 29 3 0 5 11 45.5 65 0 0.0 0 0.0 44 5.9 5.9 13.0 21.7 64.6 54.68 0 0 5.91 5.91 0.0 1 1
54 Kyle Orton DAL 30 1 0 9 10 90.0 89 1 10.0 0 0.0 21 8.9 10.9 9.9 89.0 137.1 99.38 0 0 8.90 10.90 0.0
55 T.J. Yates HOU 25 4 0 4 10 40.0 38 0 0.0 1 10.0 19 3.8 -0.7 9.5 9.5 11.7 2.07 1 0 3.45 -0.64 9.1
56 Matt Flynn SEA 27 3 0 5 9 55.6 68 0 0.0 0 0.0 27 7.6 7.6 13.6 22.7 79.9 23.36 0 0 7.56 7.56 0.0
57 Tim Tebow NYJ 25 12 2 6 8 75.0 39 0 0.0 0 0.0 23 4.9 4.9 6.5 3.3 84.9 17.6 2 7 3.20 3.20 20.0
58 Dan Orlovsky TAM 29 1 0 4 7 57.1 51 0 0.0 0 0.0 24 7.3 7.3 12.8 51.0 80.1 34.91 0 0 7.29 7.29 0.0
59 Rusty Smith TEN 25 1 0 3 5 60.0
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:39 am

jb wrote:IDK about anyone else but I'm glad we all got this out of the way for the start of the season.


Exactly- That should be the end of it in all likelihood.

Weird it keeps coming up and yet no one is budging on their opinions.

Fuckin' Youtube, man.
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:41 am

Image
Fuck the Browns...
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Re: Well, anyone sniffing or sip[ping the Kool Aid?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:59 am

peeker643 wrote:::doh::

.....I gotta hear some half-assed gangsta poet....


Wait, I'm confused. Is that JB, Hiko, SoulDawg? 'Cause "half-assed gansta poet" (or HAG Poet) is a pretty nice handle - I just need to know to whom it refers.
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