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Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

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Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby Pabo » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:30 pm

Indians up 7-1 after 4. It's now 8-6 in the 7th. I think the writing is pretty much on the wall.
Bottom 4th: Cleveland
- J. Kipnis grounded out to shortstop
- A. Cabrera doubled to deep left
- N. Swisher doubled to center, A. Cabrera scored
- J. Giambi doubled to deep right center, N. Swisher to third, N. Swisher out at home
- J. Giambi caught stealing, catcher to third

1 run, 3 hits, 0 errors
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:34 pm

Pabo wrote:Indians up 7-1 after 4. It's now 8-6 in the 7th. I think the writing is pretty much on the wall.


You're not predicting a final score in this one?!

I never understand not putting the contact play on when you've got speed on 3B - epsecially when there's another runner in scoring position - Kip would've scored easily on Santana's grounder.

Rich Hill coming on to face Pierzynski..... hold onto your hats!
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:00 pm

Smitty gives it up..... he's really been struggling lately - now allowed 8 runs (7 earned) in his last 6.2IP..... 11 hits, 5 walks and ZERO Ks over that span.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby Pabo » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:00 pm

Well, I predict an Indians loss. It's 8-8 as I write this. I'll go with 11-8 in 10.
Bottom 4th: Cleveland
- J. Kipnis grounded out to shortstop
- A. Cabrera doubled to deep left
- N. Swisher doubled to center, A. Cabrera scored
- J. Giambi doubled to deep right center, N. Swisher to third, N. Swisher out at home
- J. Giambi caught stealing, catcher to third

1 run, 3 hits, 0 errors
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:01 pm

Smith gets up 0-2 and throws the FB right over the middle/outside of the plate. Santana has GOT to set up further outside on that pitch so Smith knows what his target should be. Inexcusable. That is just horrible defense by Santana.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby pup » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:08 pm

bookelly wrote:Smith gets up 0-2 and throws the FB right over the middle/outside of the plate. Santana has GOT to set up further outside on that pitch so Smith knows what his target should be. Inexcusable. That is just horrible defense by Santana.


Look, I understand a lot of the hate for Carlos Santana behind the plate. And maybe I am just not getting what people are meaning tonight, but christ if Joe Smith throwing a cock shot up 0-2 is his fault because he didn't set up far enough outside? Heard them all now.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:16 pm

pup wrote:
bookelly wrote:Smith gets up 0-2 and throws the FB right over the middle/outside of the plate. Santana has GOT to set up further outside on that pitch so Smith knows what his target should be. Inexcusable. That is just horrible defense by Santana.


Look, I understand a lot of the hate for Carlos Santana behind the plate. And maybe I am just not getting what people are meaning tonight, but christ if Joe Smith throwing a cock shot up 0-2 is his fault because he didn't set up far enough outside? Heard them all now.


He not only wasn't set-up outside...he was inside on that pitch. As if he didn't even know what sign he just gave.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby pup » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:26 pm

bookelly wrote:
pup wrote:
bookelly wrote:Smith gets up 0-2 and throws the FB right over the middle/outside of the plate. Santana has GOT to set up further outside on that pitch so Smith knows what his target should be. Inexcusable. That is just horrible defense by Santana.


Look, I understand a lot of the hate for Carlos Santana behind the plate. And maybe I am just not getting what people are meaning tonight, but christ if Joe Smith throwing a cock shot up 0-2 is his fault because he didn't set up far enough outside? Heard them all now.


He not only wasn't set-up outside...he was inside on that pitch. As if he didn't even know what sign he just gave.


That is the most confusing thing ever.

You say he called for an outside fastball and set up on the inner half? and you think it is because he is bad, stupid, lazy or all of the above?

No idea in this case, but some times this is done intentionally. Especially for a guy like Smith. Hitter already expects something away and if Santana sets up away the hitter gets an edge. Maybe they know the guy checks where catchers set up? Of course, Santana is most of the things I said above so maybe you are right.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:36 pm

Never really thought of the batter checking the catcher. I had heard that this is nearly impossible to do as it changes your focal point and then you can't pick up the pitch. But it very well could be that Santana thought the guy on 2nd was stealing the signs/set-up. Good point.

And the truth is it was a really fucking shitty pitch for an 0-2 count.

Edit: a werd
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:48 pm

I think we can all agree THAT was terrible defense.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby 1Perry » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:01 pm

Pabo wrote:Well, I predict an Indians loss. It's 8-8 as I write this. I'll go with 11-8 in 10.


So close.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:02 pm

Well...that was cool. I can't wait to hear the Hammy call.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:04 pm

Pabo wrote:Well, I predict an Indians loss. It's 8-8 as I write this. I'll go with 11-8 in 10.


You were close. 11-8 in 11. Oh yeah and the Tribe WON. Disappointed, aren' ya? Image
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby Prosecutor » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:27 pm

The horrible relief pitching continues. Rich Hill was brought in to get Pierzynski and gives up a screaming line drive that fortunately was right at Swisher. Allen and Smith both give up two runs in one inning. Yeah, something is definitely wrong with Smith. 11 hits, 5 walks and 0 strikeouts in his last 6 innings? I think both him and Pestano have dead arms or something.

Gotta hand it to Perez and Albers for three scoreless innings to set up the win. They surprised me.

Gutsy call by Francona to take off the bunt and let Raburn swing away. If he grounds into a DP and the Tribe loses the second guessing would have been brutal. But Raburn was locked in. He already had three hits and a line drive to the left fielder, so Tito let him swing away with the infield playing for the bunt. Smart call.

Great game by Brantley. Three hits, a walk, a line drive to the first baseman, and he threw two guys out on the bases. Except he only got credit for one because Santana screwed up the tag and dropped the ball. He's so bad defensively in every phase, but especially blocking balls in the dirt and tagging out runners at the plate. He even let a guy go from first to third on a strikeout.

Michael Bourn got caught stealing - again. That's 8 times against only 13 steals, if I'm not mistaken. Is this the same guy that stole 62 bases two years ago? He's really having trouble adjusting to the American League pitchers.
Last edited by Prosecutor on Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby 1Perry » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:32 pm

The Raburn HR got out about as quick as any you'll see.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:56 pm

So Mike Aviles doesn't bunt in the 4th with 1B, 2B & 0 out. He singles. Indians plate four.

Ryan Raburn doesn't bunt in the 11th (though I will admit that it's the one spot where I wanted to see a bunt), he hits a walk-off.

Nice to see the offense show up. Antonetti has to get this bullpen some help.


Oh, yeah, and blaming Santana for Smith's mistake is foolish. Smith's been making mistakes over the middle of the plate all year. He just stopped getting away with them over the last month or so.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:53 am

Am I Here Again? wrote:
Pabo wrote:Well, I predict an Indians loss. It's 8-8 as I write this. I'll go with 11-8 in 10.


You were close. 11-8 in 11. Oh yeah and the Tribe WON. Disappointed, aren' ya? Image



:thumb up:
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby cappy1920 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:31 am

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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby cappy1920 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:34 am

I wonder if Brantley has a leg injury or something. I thought he was fast, but he didn't cut off that ball to left and he let a bloop drop in front of him and he's not stealing bases at all.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby pup » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:40 am

skatingtripods wrote:So Mike Aviles doesn't bunt in the 4th with 1B, 2B & 0 out. He singles. Indians plate four.

Ryan Raburn doesn't bunt in the 11th (though I will admit that it's the one spot where I wanted to see a bunt), he hits a walk-off.

Nice to see the offense show up. Antonetti has to get this bullpen some help.


Oh, yeah, and blaming Santana for Smith's mistake is foolish. Smith's been making mistakes over the middle of the plate all year. He just stopped getting away with them over the last month or so.


Shall I start posting every time they don't bunt in a bunting situation and bounce into a 6-4-3 or hit three straight fly balls or K?
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:51 am

pup wrote:Shall I start posting every time they don't bunt in a bunting situation and bounce into a 6-4-3 or hit three straight fly balls or K?


If you want to, go right ahead. I'm not stopping you.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:56 am

pup wrote:
bookelly wrote:
pup wrote:
bookelly wrote:Smith gets up 0-2 and throws the FB right over the middle/outside of the plate. Santana has GOT to set up further outside on that pitch so Smith knows what his target should be. Inexcusable. That is just horrible defense by Santana.


Look, I understand a lot of the hate for Carlos Santana behind the plate. And maybe I am just not getting what people are meaning tonight, but christ if Joe Smith throwing a cock shot up 0-2 is his fault because he didn't set up far enough outside? Heard them all now.


He not only wasn't set-up outside...he was inside on that pitch. As if he didn't even know what sign he just gave.


That is the most confusing thing ever.

You say he called for an outside fastball and set up on the inner half? and you think it is because he is bad, stupid, lazy or all of the above?

No idea in this case, but some times this is done intentionally. Especially for a guy like Smith. Hitter already expects something away and if Santana sets up away the hitter gets an edge. Maybe they know the guy checks where catchers set up? Of course, Santana is most of the things I said above so maybe you are right.


I particularly enjoyed his lazy dropped third strike that hit him where he was holding the glove and his lazier slow jog to the backstop on the next passed ball that allowed a guy to go 1b to 3b.

He's special back there. Perfect embodiment of this team's defensive approach.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:58 am

Pabo wrote:Indians up 7-1 after 4. It's now 8-6 in the 7th. I think the writing is pretty much on the wall.


You're getting boring. Might wanna mix in a changeup to your typical and brutal efforts.

Please.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:35 am

Edit: Reading comprehension failure
Last edited by skatingtripods on Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby jerryroche » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:41 am

skatingtripods wrote:How can he get left handed hitters out when nearly 67% of his pitches to lefties are down and in? Most lefties like the ball down there.

Am I missing something? That chart says it's from the CATCHER's point of view, not the pitcher's. Which means that Smitty's keeping the ball down and away from lefties, not down and in. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:46 am

jerryroche wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:How can he get left handed hitters out when nearly 67% of his pitches to lefties are down and in? Most lefties like the ball down there.

Am I missing something? That chart says it's from the CATCHER's point of view, not the pitcher's. Which means that Smitty's keeping the ball down and away from lefties, not down and in. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Yeah, you're right. Makes it even worse than LHB are slugging .493 off him when he's working down there.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:52 am

Lefties have a .843 OPS against Smith versus .552 against right-handed hitters. Francona may think of Smith as a guy who can get both out, but the numbers prove that's not the case. A nearly 300 point differential can't be ignored.

The problem is that we have no effective left-handed relievers so Tito has to go with Smith against lefties. We really need to trade one of our middle infield prospects that's blocked by Lindor and Kipnis for a decent lefty out of the pen. Rich Hill is horrible.

Smith's ERA by months:

April 0.00
May 1.80
June 3.65
July 8.22 (.355 BAA)

He's fallen off the cliff. There must be something wrong with his arm.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:57 am

Prosecutor wrote:He's fallen off the cliff. There must be something wrong with his arm.


Velo is fine. K% and BB% right in line with last season, both above 2011.

Control has been all over the place all season: http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?pl ... eason=2013

Biggest thing is that hitters aren't chasing as much leading to better contact. His line drive rate is up 7% this season, part of the reason why his ground ball rate is down 12%. Has a career 2.4 GB/FB ratio. This season, it's 1.56. Bad things happen on line drives and fly balls.

Maybe he misses Allie LaForce.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:43 pm

Smith has regressed since 2011.

Take HR/9 for example:

2011 0.13
2012 0.54
2013 0.95

Or percentage of fly balls that leave the yard:

2011 2.2%
2013 12.5%

Or ground ball percentage, which is critical for Smith:

2011 56.6%
2013 46.7%

He's giving up 10% more fly balls, and those fly balls are 6-7 times more likely to be home runs than two years ago.

FIP ERA:

2011 2.91
2013 4.26

He's not close to being the pitcher he was in 2011, despite what his K and BB rate says.

The last two years he's appeared in 71 and 72 games. I wonder if that was too many.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby 1Perry » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:00 pm

Smith just missed blowing tonight's (Saturday) game.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:30 am

What is wrong with Chris Perez? Two uneventful appearances. Two perfect innings Friday with only 18 pitches made. A one-two-three 9th inning save on Saturday, throwing only 6(!) pitches, 5 for strikes. Not complaining though.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:20 am

Am I Here Again? wrote:What is wrong with Chris Perez? Two uneventful appearances. Two perfect innings Friday with only 18 pitches made. A one-two-three 9th inning save on Saturday, throwing only 6(!) pitches, 5 for strikes. Not complaining though.


I thought it was obvious. They took away his weed. He's concentrating much better now.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:00 pm

I give Jimenez a ton of shit, but he was solid today. Good to see him smiling and laughing in the postgame interview. It's been a rough three years for him.

I'll blame the Profar bunt for the Rangers being shut out. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:19 pm

skatingtripods wrote:I give Jimenez a ton of shit, but he was solid today. Good to see him smiling and laughing in the postgame interview. It's been a rough three years for him.

I'll blame the Profar bunt for the Rangers being shut out. ;-) ;) :wink:


The crazy thing is, we're one solid Ubaldo start (5 scoreless IP) away from our entire starting rotation having an ERA under 4..... who would've thought that before the season started.
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Re: Rangers at Tribe Friday 7/26

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:47 pm

skatingtripods wrote:I give Jimenez a ton of shit, but he was solid today. Good to see him smiling and laughing in the postgame interview. It's been a rough three years for him.


Yep. He was and it was.

I said earlier he seems like a guy you want to root for. I actually feel for him at times because I don't dislike him.

But that's not to say I still don't think it's smoke and mirrors. But I'll be thrilled if he keeps smoking and mirroring them :thumb up:
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