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Whither Cultural Critics?

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Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:34 pm

Written by Dr. LiC of Freedarko basketball fame, this is awesome. He's an MIT PHD that teaches psychish things at Kellog Business school now. Just a great comment on the state of internet influences re: culture.

http://www.psmag.com/culture/the-value- ... art-62131/
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:59 pm

Nice. I always like reading smart people write about well thought out things. It's just too bad that so many more people end up reading the things that guys like David Brooks fart into their keyboards.

Thanks for posting.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:05 pm

What exactly did you guys find so interesting?

The internet has democratized criticism (among other forms of expertise--see: journalism/this website, see: law/everything Zimmerman-trial-related...), and everyone thinks their opinions have worth, when most of them don't. Oh, and the internet can often be something of a tardmob.

I suppose it was articulately stated, even if kind of obvious?
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:02 pm

My exact comment to him was that it was an obvious fact far too many people hide from the reality of.

*You* get that fact, most don't (even most smart people these days).
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:03 am

Also, the call out for critics with personal instead of mass-fed beliefs was interesting. Not many want that in this lemming style world.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:21 am

tl; dr and I wouldn't understand it anyway cause like it's 2013 and like there's social media and like everyone's opinion is as good and is as valid as anyone elses. It's all relative and subjective casue now I am EMPOWERED!

(Decent read. Solid premise. Not sure about the conclusion that critics have been relagated to hype and affirmation of Tweets. Shallott was there way before Al Gore. )
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:07 am

I agree a worthwhile read, but in terms of his idea of expertise I don't see how long term hands on experience (in whatever, anything) isn't possibly still the trump card relating to the notion of being an "expert".
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:41 am

FUDU wrote:I agree a worthwhile read, but in terms of his idea of expertise I don't see how long term hands on experience (in whatever, anything) isn't possibly still the trump card relating to the notion of being an "expert".



I didn't think the writer was talking about "liong-term, hand-on experience" so much as real knowledge vs sitting in the cheap seats spouting "IlikeIthinkIlikeIthink".

To wit, had a debate about the merits/drawbacks of the new Soldier Field design. the thread wen somthing like this.

Me: Here's an archetectural review from The Times archetecture crtitic. Its favorable. Then again, here is Blair Kamen hating it. But I think Kamen is a purest not understanding modern NFL revenue needs and Chicago found a creative way to bridge the gap. Kamin is ultimately on the wrong side as the alternative was some post moder U of Phoenix monstrosity dropped in the iconic museum campus or an empty park. The way the new SF played off of the neo-classic facade incoproration fit the museum campus perfectly and the perhaps unfortunate modern amenities drove the new structure, which balanced the McCormack place design and the skyline in a bold and creative manner. So ultimately, the Times' critic carriesthe day over Kamin an dthe detractors that insisted upon complete authenticity and faithfulness to the original SF design, which was of course an impossibility.

Interwebs; bawhahaha! the NY Times are a mouthpiece for the socialist party and the Kenyan. The whol rag is worthless. And lots of people hate the design and it's butt ugly. I'm right shut up. / thread.

I think that's the world the author is hinting at as deeply flawed, along with the critics bowing to that mentality, in part due to a change in the way initial access to the works has evolved.

I think that the iron worker nd the archetect bring different vantage points that have value, esp when you compare it to Joe Bagadonuts on the interwebs. The myth of opined subjectivity and hence absolute reletivity was alive and well before AlGor mailed out his first round of "free" AOL access on a 3.5 floppy. But technology has spread that thinking and to some populists even given rise to misguidedly bolstering that argument. The grater danger is the conduct in on line communities definately leads to group-think and buidliong a virtual bubble when it comes to diversity of opinion. It breeds tribalism and often times a Lord of the Flies virtual community that exacerbates that flaw.

Having said that, the archetect and the iron worker are NOT equal in what they evaluate
in terms of building structures depending uppon the subject at hand. The anti-intellectualism of dismissing legitimate education and experience on a matter at hand has never been and will never be validated except in the misguided minds of those who would inject a broader philosophical discussion and agenda.

DeTouquville is still relevant as ever.

As for the critic? There have always been critics of popular work that relied on slanted views for their own exposure, particularly in film. They review a rotton tomatoe positively and their names are picked up. They are then recognized and used more frequently. They then are syndicated due to popularity. Call it the "randy Jackson Dawg Syndrome". Gene Shallot always comes to mind. I swear he thought "the Best Little Whorehouse in Texas" was a musical on par with "West Side Story". Critical work is often as much an inditry as advertizing.

No realy suprise here, just an evolution via new media and even more crappy egalitarianism power to the people tripe.

But then again, I found Judge Smails to be a sympothetic figure.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:04 am

From Adam Waytz: "Cultural critics now have an opportunity to provide a real service by reviving objectivity, and giving people an informed opinion rooted in legitimate and honest contemplation. At the same time, it’s harder than ever for them to do that because of all the noise."

Sorry, Adam. Objectivity never existed. Ever. (And this from a longtime newspaperman, back in the days when we at least believed we were making an honest attempt at objectivity.)

What's fun, in this Internet World, is reading and listening to everyone's opinions, from the "informed" to the "noise," and trying to decide which is which -- always a subjective and very personal choice.

From the Desiderata: "...listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story."
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:56 am

jerryroche wrote:From the Desiderata:



Nuh -uh. You really didn't just do that.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:13 pm

jb wrote:Interwebs; bawhahaha! the NY Times are a mouthpiece for the socialist party and the Kenyan. The whol rag is worthless. And lots of people hate the design and it's butt ugly. I'm right shut up. / thread.

I think that's the world the author is hinting at as deeply flawed, along with the critics bowing to that mentality, in part due to a change in the way initial access to the works has evolved.


Ironically, you were the person that came to mind most when reading this because you have some prior underground critical experience and you were interwebbing when the interwebbs were giant room-sized computers ran by Reents and Oberle while you sat at some terminal in the other room, drank bud and yelled at them about the Browns finally joining the NFL.

Anyhow, I think you're dancing on the exact point here, but I also think a lot of this is about critics writing to the populace now to rise above the noise while at the same time the populace is writing to the critics to make the noise. The problem with today's interweb is you have so much critical writing and so much of it is absorbed (fuck, look at all of the gawd damn Mad Men revues) that critics end up letting their opinions morph toward the side of the populace (consciously, subconsciously, whatever) because that is what is heard in the self-affirming world of internet NOISE! and readers let their opinions become that of the critics because they think seek that early internet era expertise born from access while in reality they just want to be a part of the noise.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:30 pm

Let's put it this way, Community is constantly one of the most commented on reviews at the AV Club (well, it was with Harmon). This is in part because the online critical community loves Community, but also because Community grew up with the online critical community. Anyhow, the interesting part is that Todd, who is probably my favorite TV critic, will often know the exact reaction a grade he gives is going to get and write to that damn reaction before even getting into the review. Now I like to think Todd still keeps his personal bias above the fact that he is so conscious of the known coming reaction, but I can't honestly believe he isn't partially writing to that noise subconsciously.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:21 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Let's put it this way, Community is constantly one of the most commented on reviews at the AV Club (well, it was with Harmon). This is in part because the online critical community loves Community, but also because Community grew up with the online critical community. Anyhow, the interesting part is that Todd, who is probably my favorite TV critic, will often know the exact reaction a grade he gives is going to get and write to that damn reaction before even getting into the review. Now I like to think Todd still keeps his personal bias above the fact that he is so conscious of the known coming reaction, but I can't honestly believe he isn't partially writing to that noise subconsciously.


Hidden in that post is one real impact of the internet on culture, and it isn't the trifling disenfranchisement of some cultural gatekeepers. It's the elevation of disposable entertainment to full-fledged culture. What does it even mean today to create something of enduring value? It survives more than one news cycle before it's forgotten? But who can blame us for forgetting when OOOH LOOK KITTENS DOING THINGS!

Literary fiction, for example, has survived pop culture in many different forms for quite some time (though, the more insulated it becomes, the more detached and irrelevant it becomes, too), but "tl;dr" is dangerous.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:21 pm

I guess the question I have is why post this? Seems to me to be either creating more noise, preaching to the choir or spitting into the wind.

Meaning anyone who understands or agrees with you doesn't need you to tell them and anyone that doesn't ain't gonna figure it out from this.

So it's either an attempt to set oneself above others or a waste of time.

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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:27 pm

jb wrote:
jerryroche wrote:From the Desiderata:


Nuh -uh. You really didn't just do that.


Yer right. Definitely too Jimmy Carter era-ish. Kumbaya, brother.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:40 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Let's put it this way, Community is constantly one of the most commented on reviews at the AV Club (well, it was with Harmon). This is in part because the online critical community loves Community, but also because Community grew up with the online critical community. Anyhow, the interesting part is that Todd, who is probably my favorite TV critic, will often know the exact reaction a grade he gives is going to get and write to that damn reaction before even getting into the review. Now I like to think Todd still keeps his personal bias above the fact that he is so conscious of the known coming reaction, but I can't honestly believe he isn't partially writing to that noise subconsciously.


Hidden in that post is one real impact of the internet on culture, and it isn't the trifling disenfranchisement of some cultural gatekeepers. It's the elevation of disposable entertainment to full-fledged culture. What does it even mean today to create something of enduring value? It survives more than one news cycle before it's forgotten? But who can blame us for forgetting when OOOH LOOK KITTENS DOING THINGS!

Literary fiction, for example, has survived pop culture in many different forms for quite some time (though, the more insulated it becomes, the more detached and irrelevant it becomes, too), but "tl;dr" is dangerous.


Yeah, but are we going to be able to discuss this question before Sharknados wipe everything out, because maaaan we don't have the needed perspective to do so yet.

Except for that isolated literary fiction world. Those ten dudes are good dudes. Good thing Dan Brown keeps the libraries and book stores and kindles open for them. Shit, wait, Dan Brown is old news right? What is it now? Hunger Games? Fuck, no. I don't know. Where's hiko?
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:04 pm

You walk a dangerous path trying to use me as a cultural barometer.

Dan Brown. Pfft. Didn't he just come out with a new book? I liked the one where the dude jumped out of the helicopter but lived because he used his jacket as a parachute, thus escaping the pope-murdering bishop (or whatever). I found that whole situation eminently believable OOOH LOOK KITTENS DOING THINGS!
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:36 pm

peeker643 wrote:I guess the question I have is why post this?



Validation to ignore your opinions?

:group:
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:38 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Let's put it this way, Community is constantly one of the most commented on reviews at the AV Club (well, it was with Harmon). This is in part because the online critical community loves Community, but also because Community grew up with the online critical community. Anyhow, the interesting part is that Todd, who is probably my favorite TV critic, will often know the exact reaction a grade he gives is going to get and write to that damn reaction before even getting into the review. Now I like to think Todd still keeps his personal bias above the fact that he is so conscious of the known coming reaction, but I can't honestly believe he isn't partially writing to that noise subconsciously.



So all of this is about Todd?

:thud:

Seriously, I don't consider a blogger a "critic". I consider a blogger a POV of a fan/observer via an open medium. I give it no weight without credentials. But I'm an elitist - basterd.

To wit, when one Mansfield Lucas would forffer a rant, that was in no way on par with Tony Grossi. Even though TG is biased and doesn't share any of the real inside dope until he can write a book and spill 2 decades after the news ocurred. Same with gary Benz and Sheldon Oker or Jerry and Joe Gabrielle.

Jerry's point about there never having been a bias-free era is spot on though.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:40 pm

jerryroche wrote:
jb wrote:
jerryroche wrote:From the Desiderata:


Nuh -uh. You really didn't just do that.


Yer right. Definitely too Jimmy Carter era-ish. Kumbaya, brother.



If we're going to san Francisco....

(I get a visual of JEJ as Terrence Mann with his bug sprayer.)
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:57 pm

jb wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Let's put it this way, Community is constantly one of the most commented on reviews at the AV Club (well, it was with Harmon). This is in part because the online critical community loves Community, but also because Community grew up with the online critical community. Anyhow, the interesting part is that Todd, who is probably my favorite TV critic, will often know the exact reaction a grade he gives is going to get and write to that damn reaction before even getting into the review. Now I like to think Todd still keeps his personal bias above the fact that he is so conscious of the known coming reaction, but I can't honestly believe he isn't partially writing to that noise subconsciously.



So all of this is about Todd?

:thud:

Seriously, I don't consider a blogger a "critic". I consider a blogger a POV of a fan/observer via an open medium. I give it no weight without credentials. But I'm an elitist - basterd.

To wit, when one Mansfield Lucas would forffer a rant, that was in no way on par with Tony Grossi. Even though TG is biased and doesn't share any of the real inside dope until he can write a book and spill 2 decades after the news ocurred. Same with gary Benz and Sheldon Oker or Jerry and Joe Gabrielle.

Jerry's point about there never having been a bias-free era is spot on though.


These days sites like The AV Club and Hitfix are far more influential TV critics than any paper.

Movies you still have some power in the print realm, but that gap is closing too. Music, way more electronic.

Don't be a dinosaur.

Also, all of these types are credentialed now, go to all the events, get all the early review copies, all of it. They are not Mansfield Lucas.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:02 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
jb wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Let's put it this way, Community is constantly one of the most commented on reviews at the AV Club (well, it was with Harmon). This is in part because the online critical community loves Community, but also because Community grew up with the online critical community. Anyhow, the interesting part is that Todd, who is probably my favorite TV critic, will often know the exact reaction a grade he gives is going to get and write to that damn reaction before even getting into the review. Now I like to think Todd still keeps his personal bias above the fact that he is so conscious of the known coming reaction, but I can't honestly believe he isn't partially writing to that noise subconsciously.



So all of this is about Todd?

:thud:

Seriously, I don't consider a blogger a "critic". I consider a blogger a POV of a fan/observer via an open medium. I give it no weight without credentials. But I'm an elitist - basterd.

To wit, when one Mansfield Lucas would forffer a rant, that was in no way on par with Tony Grossi. Even though TG is biased and doesn't share any of the real inside dope until he can write a book and spill 2 decades after the news ocurred. Same with gary Benz and Sheldon Oker or Jerry and Joe Gabrielle.

Jerry's point about there never having been a bias-free era is spot on though.


These days sites like The AV Club and Hitfix are far more influential TV critics than any paper.

Movies you still have some power in the print realm, but that gap is closing too. Music, way more electronic.

Don't be a dinosaur.

Also, all of these types are credentialed now, go to all the events, get all the early review copies, all of it. They are not Mansfield Lucas.



Well, you's talking apples and lugnuts my man.

I thought we were talking about validity and not power.

You can be a critic and use a media outside a fishwrap to be sure. You can be a blogger and use the same media. It blurs lines like as if Robyn Thicke. Up to the user to discern.

No different from reading whack nut's take on climate change from random URL or seeing if it is the result of a peer review process and valid study. Caveat emptor.

Isn't that why you went to Hopkins?

To wit; when I knew Hiko had some background from film school, I started paying more attention to his takes on those subjects and TV. I realize they have a basis mine do not.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:07 pm

Well come on, I mentioned Todd and you took it to Mansfield Lucas. Todd's a guy that goes to all those stupid TV things, has power, etc. He's probably one of the five or six most influential TV writers anywhere and he has background in writing, etc. Just not sure what your point is. I'm certainly not talking about the guy at http://www.myblog.com, but in the same regard that guy is showing up as part of the populace that is influencing the critics in the cyclical mess. My point was simply the blur between the noise and one of the most respected TV writers out there and how you can see it impacting his writing, you took it down this strange path. I mean hell, Sepinwall, Simmon's little TV critic buddy that everyone listens to because Bill! Simmons! left a paper to go to Hitfix.

I mean, I'm just confused. Do you have to have been a TV writer now to be a TV critic? You can't just have spent your entire life studying TV? (a kinda sad thing to study, but people like Todd and Sepinwall that have risen to the top of those sites in fact did this).

BTW: JB, if you didn't notice a sports blogger worked his way up to blogging for ESPN and is now the blogging GM of the Memphis Grizzlies.

Just sayin'
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:23 pm

jb wrote:To wit; when I knew Hiko had some background from film school, I started paying more attention to his takes on those subjects and TV. I realize they have a basis mine do not.


Because I took some classes?

Your takes on the meaning of doors in Mad Men is far more film-schoolian/insightful than anything I throw out there these days.

My takes have no more merit than anyone else's on the subject, especially as far removed as I am from the world now. But even some of my friends who work and are successful in the business have generally awful takes/taste. The most successful guy I know, if he tells me to watch a movie, I avoid it like it's rat poison.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:28 pm

e0y2e3 wrote: Just not sure what your point is.



If I have offened your sensibilities by projecting a bias against certain forms of media, mea culpa and all that sort. That wasn't my intent. I know papers are dead/dying. I get that.

You can find bona fide critics with the background, knowledge, and education in any media.

I thought the point was:

a) what is the role of the critic and validity of them in the shoft in media and

b) has changes in media brought about a shift where they used to set the tone and now they react to it with empowered users and social electronic communication elminitaing the timeframe and scope and scale of audience reaction?

My point was there are still those who are legit and those users/essentially consumers who are spewing out cornholes. They are not equal. They are not subjective and relative in merits of opinion any differently than were pete Franklin's callers and hal lebowicz in 1974. The fact that a dude named "Todd" is now Gene Siskel and Peter Travers just made me sniker casue I'm mentally 14 years old.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:29 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:To wit; when I knew Hiko had some background from film school, I started paying more attention to his takes on those subjects and TV. I realize they have a basis mine do not.


Because I took some classes?



Yes.

In summation?

Yes.

Education and legit background matters.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:30 pm

Hikohadon wrote: But even some of my friends who work and are successful in the business have generally awful takes/taste. The most successful guy I know, if he tells me to watch a movie, I avoid it like it's rat poison.



But again, wrenches and oranges. That's personal taste, not a review.

Starship Troopers is like, the most awesome film ever for me. I doubt it got any oscars.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:33 pm

Hikohadon wrote:OOH LOOK KITTENS DOING THINGS!


AREN'T THEY AMAZING!
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:33 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:To wit; when I knew Hiko had some background from film school, I started paying more attention to his takes on those subjects and TV. I realize they have a basis mine do not.


Because I took some classes?



Yes.

In summation?

Yes.

Education and legit background matters.


In aerospace engineering, maybe.

Any fool can watch TV.

Just because I know what a graduated filter or the 180 degree rule is doesn't mean I have any merit as a critic.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:41 pm

The only meaningful credential for a critic is good taste.

Informed good taste > uninformed good taste, Good taste with perspective > good taste without perspective, but the rest is just parasitic look-at-me bullshit.
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:42 pm

HoodooMan wrote:The only meaningful credential for a critic is good taste.

Informed good taste > uninformed good taste, Good taste with perspective > good taste without perspective, but the rest is just parasitic look-at-me bullshit.


Well....

I want good writing skills too.

But yeah, this.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:54 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote: But even some of my friends who work and are successful in the business have generally awful takes/taste. The most successful guy I know, if he tells me to watch a movie, I avoid it like it's rat poison.



But again, wrenches and oranges. That's personal taste, not a review.

Starship Troopers is like, the most awesome film ever for me. I doubt it got any oscars.


http://www.metacritic.com/movie/starshi ... ic-reviews
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:56 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote: But even some of my friends who work and are successful in the business have generally awful takes/taste. The most successful guy I know, if he tells me to watch a movie, I avoid it like it's rat poison.



But again, wrenches and oranges. That's personal taste, not a review.

Starship Troopers is like, the most awesome film ever for me. I doubt it got any oscars.


I too love that movie, far far more than many Best Picture Winners.

And to further debunk my credibility:

2012 - Argo - Saw it, pretty good, not great.
2011 - The Artist - Never saw it.
2010 - The King's Speech - Never saw it.
2009 - The Hurt Locker - Never saw it.
2008 - Slumdog Millionaire - Never saw it.
2007 - No Country For Old Men - Saw it, good.
2006 - The Departed - Pretty sure I saw it, don't recall it being anything special.
2005 - Crash - Never saw it.
2004 - Million Dollar Baby - Never saw it.
2003 - The Return of The King - the theatrical version is crap.

Of the 68 movies nominated for Best Picture since 2003, I have seen only 29. I doubt there's anyone reading this that has seen less.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:01 pm

Also, Starship Troopers is the ONLY movie that stops me instantly if I see it on cable. I once kept on a DVR for two years.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:02 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote: But even some of my friends who work and are successful in the business have generally awful takes/taste. The most successful guy I know, if he tells me to watch a movie, I avoid it like it's rat poison.



But again, wrenches and oranges. That's personal taste, not a review.

Starship Troopers is like, the most awesome film ever for me. I doubt it got any oscars.


http://www.metacritic.com/movie/starshi ... ic-reviews


63% on Rotten Tomatoes, not too shabby.

And the 37% probably write for the Village Voice.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:03 pm

Yeah, I grabbed metacritic because the RT review crowd was... sparse... and JB only wants to read big paper guys.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:08 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Of the 68 movies nominated for Best Picture since 2003, I have seen only 29. I doubt there's anyone reading this that has seen less.


Oh no. You're not going to out out-of-touch me, Mister.

23.

Only 8 since 2007, one of which was forced upon me by my mother in law.
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:10 pm

3 <--whopping number I'd have really been missing out on, if I hadn't seen them.
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:11 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Of the 68 movies nominated for Best Picture since 2003, I have seen only 29. I doubt there's anyone reading this that has seen less.


Oh no. You're not going to out out-of-touch me, Mister.

23.

Only 8 since 2007, one of which was forced upon me by my mother in law.


Damn you and your hermitic ways!

Can't believe I lost that.

Money on MoScratch being north of 55.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:20 pm

HoodooMan wrote:3 <--whopping number I'd have really been missing out on, if I hadn't seen them.


I "liked" more than that number, but "really" missing out on, probably only Black Swan, No Country, and Sideways? [shrug]
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:27 pm

1) No Country, 2) Inglourious Basterds, and 3) The Departed (for a mob movie, I enjoyed it a lot, though I haven't felt the need to re-watch it yet, either.).

Black Swan's been on my cheapskate waiting for it to drop in price on Amazon list for a while now, but I'll now have to bump its priority since you went to a good film school.

[This is where I'd place an emoticon for JB, but most of these are terrible. I really enjoy this guy --> :gah: though, so I'll have him stand in for :ONLY JOSHING YOU, JB]
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:34 pm

LOST IN TRANSLATION ASSHATS!
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:38 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Of the 68 movies nominated for Best Picture since 2003, I have seen only 29. I doubt there's anyone reading this that has seen less.


Oh no. You're not going to out out-of-touch me, Mister.

23.

Only 8 since 2007, one of which was forced upon me by my mother in law.


Damn you and your hermitic ways!

Can't believe I lost that.

Money on MoScratch being north of 55.


28.

Really been cutting movies down since the 10 banger noms. There have been some crazy shitty movies since then.

And yes, all of bow's three are awesome, including The Departed. I've watched all multiple times.

Either way, this number will go up when I finish off the 2012 noms I've wanted to see like Zero Dark, etc. I'll end this year probably around 32/34.
Last edited by e0y2e3 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:38 pm

FUCK, nevermind. 29, I forgot I was drug to Les Mis and blacked it out. Gawdamnit.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:58 pm

HoodooMan wrote:The only meaningful credential for a critic is good taste.

Informed good taste > uninformed good taste, Good taste with perspective > good taste without perspective, but the rest is just parasitic look-at-me bullshit.



No no no a thousand times no.

Taste is always informed. Taste always inplies perspective. These can not be parsed as such.

What ur seeking is a recommendation that fits ur preferences, not a critique.

Again. Totally different concepts.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:04 pm

jb wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:The only meaningful credential for a critic is good taste.

Informed good taste > uninformed good taste, Good taste with perspective > good taste without perspective, but the rest is just parasitic look-at-me bullshit.



No no no a thousand times no.

Taste is always informed. Taste always inplies perspective. These can not be parsed as such.

What ur seeking is a recommendation that fits ur preferences, not a critique.

Again. Totally different concepts.


The Two and a Half Men writers went to film school.

Why is there opinion better than someone that has studied and watched TV for a two decades while developing taste through that process. Oil floats or whatever.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:05 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:To wit; when I knew Hiko had some background from film school, I started paying more attention to his takes on those subjects and TV. I realize they have a basis mine do not.


Because I took some classes?



Yes.

In summation?

Yes.

Education and legit background matters.


In aerospace engineering, maybe.

Any fool can watch TV.

Just because I know what a graduated filter or the 180 degree rule is doesn't mean I have any merit as a critic.



Any fool does watch TV hence Mork & Mindy. Ave schmuck says " I like that shot". You know what went into it and WHY it is quality art.

Your knowledge matters.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:07 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:LOST IN TRANSLATION ASSHATS!


That's on my "good" list. Almost put it up with the 3. The best of the rest.

Inglorious Basterds was like most Tarantino films, some great scenes, some meh scenes, like a conglomeration of short films. I liked it a lot, but it was no Pulp Fiction.

I just don't remember much about The Departed. Might need to watch it again.
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:08 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
jb wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:The only meaningful credential for a critic is good taste.

Informed good taste > uninformed good taste, Good taste with perspective > good taste without perspective, but the rest is just parasitic look-at-me bullshit.



No no no a thousand times no.

Taste is always informed. Taste always inplies perspective. These can not be parsed as such.

What ur seeking is a recommendation that fits ur preferences, not a critique.

Again. Totally different concepts.


The Two and a Half Men writers went to film school.

Why is there opinion better than someone that has studied and watched TV for a two decades while developing taste through that process. Oil floats or whatever.



That's why Two & a Half Men was hilarious. That & hot chicks.

You buy into the democratization of talent so much why do you diss Akron U as a diploma mill?
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Re: Whither Cultural Critics?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:11 pm

The point is that plenty of educated film students are Akron types. They are no different than you or me.

Writing is one thing, also, where I think education matters more in the writing style than the content. Writing and critical writing is almost more gift and long term effort than anything else.

Akron U is churning out communications majors that shouldn't even be there and giving them diplommas that don't match their skills.

I learned more about how to learn at Hopkins than I did the shit I studied.
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