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Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby jb » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:04 pm

fairvis wrote:Hell, if it doesn't work, the Cavs spent 6 million this year they would've used on a couple of scrubs.



Perspective: This is the Luke Walton budget line.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby jb » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:35 pm

Lost in all the hate here is the "what if" should these guys stay health.

What if Waiters develops more and Bennett is a solid player as a rook and has upside?

What if Carrick really has cat-like quickness and can play 4th gurad and perimeter D?

What if Bynum can play 20 - 25 solid minutes rotating with Andy and TT at the 5 and can close games?

What if Kyree can do the same at 30 - 35 with Jack and Waiters spelling in a rotation?

I see no reason we shouldn't expect a 6th seed behind Miami, Indy, NY, Chicago and Brooklyn this coming season with health. And we have upside. What is Sergey van supply shar shooting in a couple years? Future forward if the Heat breaks up and Kyree, Waiters and Bennett actualize to reasonable potential I see no reason why there isn't conference contention in 2 years with or without Bron. If he has a crazy legacy dream to right his one wrong there is dynasty potential.

Hate all you want, but this is the 2nd best potential roster we've had without Bron, and it is better than what we had with Bron if you take him out of the mix. And if Bennett hits freakish upside? Probably better than the 90's roster.

But yeah, let's all justr be the typical TCF "shit on everything" knee jerk cynics.

So there.

/
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby OldDawg » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:58 pm

If there were "no risk" with Bynum, Bynum would not be signing with the Cavs. He'd be signing elsewhere. He'd be signing with a contender to take that team to "the next level." That being said, this scenario might be the only way the Cavs make such a FA signing.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:06 pm

jb wrote:Lost in all the hate here is the "what if" should these guys stay health.

But yeah, let's all justr be the typical TCF "shit on everything" knee jerk cynics.

/


Forgive me if I missed it in the shuffle, but the majority of the posts here have been positive.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:42 pm

It's great pick-up for just about any team at that price, and considering the Cavs are in a place where NOBODY historiaclly chooses to go, makes it that much better.

My only reservation, with it being the Cavs and all, is that Bynum went to those interviews with both knees missing, and Cavs brass somehow overlooked that fact.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby jb » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:34 pm

OldDawg wrote:If there were "no risk" with Bynum, Bynum would not be signing with the Cavs. He'd be signing elsewhere. He'd be signing with a contender to take that team to "the next level." That being said, this scenario might be the only way the Cavs make such a FA signing.



No one ever said "no risk/sure thing".

Just "what if" a best case scenario actually were to occur.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby jb » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:34 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:
jb wrote:Lost in all the hate here is the "what if" should these guys stay health.

But yeah, let's all justr be the typical TCF "shit on everything" knee jerk cynics.

/


Forgive me if I missed it in the shuffle, but the majority of the posts here have been positive.



No no. You've been told.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby OldDawg » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:45 pm

jb wrote:
OldDawg wrote:If there were "no risk" with Bynum, Bynum would not be signing with the Cavs. He'd be signing elsewhere. He'd be signing with a contender to take that team to "the next level." That being said, this scenario might be the only way the Cavs make such a FA signing.



No one ever said "no risk/sure thing".

Just "what if" a best case scenario actually were to occur.


Hey jb, I wan't referring to your post. Just making a general comment. I am hopeful about this signing.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:42 pm

Maybe Kyrie will be inspired to continue his recruiting efforts next year. I wonder if there might be any good free agents to be pursued?
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:42 pm

Fuck me the Nets are scary. How many rubles is Prok slipping AK47 under the table?
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby bookelly » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:52 pm

I glad there's optimism, but it shouldn't be because we got Bynum. If he plays three games I'll eat my shoe. He simply has no motivation or desire to play basketball. And I've watched him play 100 games. The comp I'd give him? Master-Blaster from Beyond Thunderdome...he really is just a child.

That said, they have a nice roster with a ton of flexibility. A ton of upside. Add in Brown's defense and we might have something.

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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:15 pm

Wait, wait, wait... Danny Ferry gave 32 yr old Kyle Korver a 4yr/$24mil deal recently?

Did Donyell Marshall say no?

ETA:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2111786

Marshall agrees to four-year contract

"Coming off the bench last season, the 32-year-old Marshall..."

Bwah!
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby OldDawg » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:03 pm

bookelly wrote:Add in Brown's defense and we might have something.


Pardon my ignorance, but who is supposed to be the offensive guru on Brown's staff?
Bickerstaff (who was on his Lakers' staff)? Boylan?? I hope he has one.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:30 am

bookelly wrote:I glad there's optimism, but it shouldn't be because we got Bynum. If he plays three games I'll eat my shoe. He simply has no motivation or desire to play basketball. And I've watched him play 100 games. The comp I'd give him? Master-Blaster from Beyond Thunderdome...he really is just a child.


Its Bynum's Sheed In Detroit / Artest In Sactown moment.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:57 am

jb wrote:Lost in all the hate here is the "what if" should these guys stay health.

What if Waiters develops more and Bennett is a solid player as a rook and has upside?

What if Carrick really has cat-like quickness and can play 4th gurad and perimeter D?

What if Bynum can play 20 - 25 solid minutes rotating with Andy and TT at the 5 and can close games?

What if Kyree can do the same at 30 - 35 with Jack and Waiters spelling in a rotation?

I see no reason we shouldn't expect a 6th seed behind Miami, Indy, NY, Chicago and Brooklyn this coming season with health. And we have upside. What is Sergey van supply shar shooting in a couple years? Future forward if the Heat breaks up and Kyree, Waiters and Bennett actualize to reasonable potential I see no reason why there isn't conference contention in 2 years with or without Bron. If he has a crazy legacy dream to right his one wrong there is dynasty potential.

Hate all you want, but this is the 2nd best potential roster we've had without Bron, and it is better than what we had with Bron if you take him out of the mix. And if Bennett hits freakish upside? Probably better than the 90's roster.

But yeah, let's all justr be the typical TCF "shit on everything" knee jerk cynics.

So there.

/


^^^^^

Long time Browns fan....

We're all idiots for being cynical around here what with the historical perspective that just mandates you not be.

Mark it down, Fanbois. 82 games between the three of them and I said in spite of that Grant did a great job...
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby jb » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:03 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
bookelly wrote:I glad there's optimism, but it shouldn't be because we got Bynum. If he plays three games I'll eat my shoe. He simply has no motivation or desire to play basketball. And I've watched him play 100 games. The comp I'd give him? Master-Blaster from Beyond Thunderdome...he really is just a child.


Its Bynum's Sheed In Detroit / Artest In Sactown moment.



Truth. If he can get past this being Walton's moment in San Diego.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:14 am

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Lost in all the hate here is the "what if" should these guys stay health.

What if Waiters develops more and Bennett is a solid player as a rook and has upside?

What if Carrick really has cat-like quickness and can play 4th gurad and perimeter D?

What if Bynum can play 20 - 25 solid minutes rotating with Andy and TT at the 5 and can close games?

What if Kyree can do the same at 30 - 35 with Jack and Waiters spelling in a rotation?

I see no reason we shouldn't expect a 6th seed behind Miami, Indy, NY, Chicago and Brooklyn this coming season with health. And we have upside. What is Sergey van supply shar shooting in a couple years? Future forward if the Heat breaks up and Kyree, Waiters and Bennett actualize to reasonable potential I see no reason why there isn't conference contention in 2 years with or without Bron. If he has a crazy legacy dream to right his one wrong there is dynasty potential.

Hate all you want, but this is the 2nd best potential roster we've had without Bron, and it is better than what we had with Bron if you take him out of the mix. And if Bennett hits freakish upside? Probably better than the 90's roster.

But yeah, let's all justr be the typical TCF "shit on everything" knee jerk cynics.

So there.

/


^^^^^

Long time Browns fan....

We're all idiots for being cynical around here what with the historical perspective that just mandates you not be.

Mark it down, Fanbois. 82 games between the three of them and I said in spite of that Grant did a great job...


jb raises a legitimate point in that the additions of Jack, Bennett, Clark, and maybe Karasev means that Brown has the luxury of limiting the minutes of Bynum, Kyrie, and Andy. IOW, he doesn't have to play them 36 minutes a night. He's especially stacked at center with Bynum, Andy, Zeller and TT (against certain teams) all able to play the position. He can divvy up the minutes, keep everybody fresh, and minimize the chances of injury.

Does this mean Kyrie, Andy, and AB will all play 82 games? No, but I think there is a better chance they will make it through the season and be healthy for the playoffs if their minutes are more along the lines of say 25-28 per game. I expect there will be a significant number of blowouts where all three of these guys can skip the 4th quarter.

OTOH, peeker is correct in that TCE is alive and well and all three of these players have a recent history of chronic injuries. But I think they all have a fighting chance of surviving the season due to the team's newfound depth.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:43 am

With Andy and Kyrie it's not so much they wear down as that their bodies aren't big enough and built enough for their styles.

Will fewer minutes because of added depth help that? Sure it will. But negligibly IMO.

Andy's diving all over the floor from the jump and Kyrie is going to the rim through all those big bodies too. And Andy can't get much bigger and stronger while Kyrie has never cared enough about a weight room to try.

Add up the last three seasons (strike shortened one as well) and Varejao hasn't played in a total of 82 games. He's actually played only 35% of Cavs games in the past three years. Thankfully he's over 30 now so that should get better and he should be healthier with those years under his belt.

Kyrie hasn't been able to lace 'em up >25% of the time in the NBA.

And we all know about Bynum.

But yeah, let JB go TCE-slapping. He's right as often as Varejao plays ;-) ;) :wink:

Even with all of that above, Grant has done a tremendous job in getting Bynum and Jack here and I like the Clark addition as well.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby kman_holla8 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:19 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Fuck me the Nets are scary. How many rubles is Prok slipping AK47 under the table?



I think the Bulls are more scary, just by getting Derrick Rose back. The Nets will be good but they can't have any depth, and I wonder how there going to split up the ball enough to get everybody enough shots to be productive. DWill/ Pierce are used to having the ball in there hands and JJohnson was feuding with DWill last year over not getting the ball enough. Kidd could really have his hands full coaching players who see him as a buddy and equal...
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby kman_holla8 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:28 pm

I really like the offseason moves ang give credit to chris grant. JJack is exactly the veteran player we needed for the backcourt. Bynam is a great signing, dispite his baggage. My hope with earl clark is he doesn't have to play at the 4 with our frontcourt depth. I think 46 wins is a good soft low-ball target, given the history of our fragile players (and the depth we have that should keep them healthier longer.)
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:10 am

peeker643 wrote:With Andy and Kyrie it's not so much they wear down as that their bodies aren't big enough and built enough for their styles.

Will fewer minutes because of added depth help that? Sure it will. But negligibly IMO.

Andy's diving all over the floor from the jump and Kyrie is going to the rim through all those big bodies too. And Andy can't get much bigger and stronger while Kyrie has never cared enough about a weight room to try.

I understand your point but Andy's injuries weren't due to him being weak or having the wrong body type. Two years ago he was hurt when a guy tomahawked his wrist trying to knock the ball out. It was a wrist or thumb injury, nothing to do with diving on the floor or not being big enough. Could have happened to anybody.

Last year he was hurt when a guy kneed him in the leg, just above the knee, and split the muscle. It was a freak injury and compounded by surgical complications of a blood clot. It had nothing to do with his lack of size for his position or style of play.

I agree that as long as Kyrie continues to drive the lane and banging into much bigger bodies he's susceptible to getting hurt. But like MJ, I think he'll start taking more outside shots, especially now with Bynum posting up on the block. Or driving and dishing off more often to strong finishers like Bynum, Andy, Clark, or TT, thereby avoiding the hard contact at the rim.


Add up the last three seasons (strike shortened one as well) and Varejao hasn't played in a total of 82 games. He's actually played only 35% of Cavs games in the past three years. Thankfully he's over 30 now so that should get better and he should be healthier with those years under his belt.

I don't think his age had much if anything to do with his injuries the last couple of years. It's not like he has bad knees that get worse each year, for example.

Kyrie hasn't been able to lace 'em up >25% of the time in the NBA.

He's played 110 of 162 possible games, or 68%.

And we all know about Bynum.

I really don't expect him to make it through the season, although he just had surgery on both knees, so maybe if the foreign bodies or whatever have been removed he can make it through the season if he doesn't have to play too many minutes.

But yeah, let JB go TCE-slapping. He's right as often as Varejao plays ;-) ;) :wink:

Even with all of that above, Grant has done a tremendous job in getting Bynum and Jack here and I like the Clark addition as well.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby JJN » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:01 am

kman_holla8 wrote:I really like the offseason moves ang give credit to chris grant. JJack is exactly the veteran player we needed for the backcourt. Bynam is a great signing, dispite his baggage. My hope with earl clark is he doesn't have to play at the 4 with our frontcourt depth. I think 46 wins is a good soft low-ball target, given the history of our fragile players (and the depth we have that should keep them healthier longer.)


I think 45 games is close to this team's ceiling if everyone remains healthy and Bynum is back to old form.

Our division is deep. Indy and Chicago are playoff locks and probably the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the East. Detroit and Milwaukee can probably us about even. That's 16 games right there that we should maybe win 6-8 of.

We won 24 games last year. Is this team 20 games better? I don't think so, not until I see Bynum in action.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:24 pm

kman_holla8 wrote:
CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Fuck me the Nets are scary. How many rubles is Prok slipping AK47 under the table?



I think the Bulls are more scary, just by getting Derrick Rose back. The Nets will be good but they can't have any depth, and I wonder how there going to split up the ball enough to get everybody enough shots to be productive. DWill/ Pierce are used to having the ball in there hands and JJohnson was feuding with DWill last year over not getting the ball enough. Kidd could really have his hands full coaching players who see him as a buddy and equal...


Rose has played exactly 39 games in the past two season, 0 of them in the most recent season, so does the Bulls getting him back make them scary with the logic peeker presented about Kyrie relative to the Cavs?

Rose is arguably as fragile or more so than KI, and is he THAT much better than KI, if at all?
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:29 pm

FUDU wrote:
kman_holla8 wrote:
CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Fuck me the Nets are scary. How many rubles is Prok slipping AK47 under the table?



I think the Bulls are more scary, just by getting Derrick Rose back. The Nets will be good but they can't have any depth, and I wonder how there going to split up the ball enough to get everybody enough shots to be productive. DWill/ Pierce are used to having the ball in there hands and JJohnson was feuding with DWill last year over not getting the ball enough. Kidd could really have his hands full coaching players who see him as a buddy and equal...


Rose has played exactly 39 games in the past two season, 0 of them in the most recent season, so does the Bulls getting him back make them scary with the logic peeker presented about Kyrie relative to the Cavs?

Rose is arguably as fragile or more so than KI, and is he THAT much better than KI, if at all?


Rose has had basically one injury. He played 81. 78, and 81 games his first three years. And he played his full college season. Kyrie's been day to day his entire basketball existence - at least from college on. Not sure about high school, but he might have missed three weeks cause he dropped a yearbook on his toe.

It's be a very wise bet to wager that Rose will play more games than Kyrie.

And to the scary point, the point that he's waaay better than Kyrie factors in.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby FUDU » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:44 pm

Better, it's a fair comment, waaay better, pfft.

But whatever.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:15 pm

FUDU wrote:Better, it's a fair comment, waaay better, pfft.

But whatever.


In the clubhouse - waaay better.

Potentially Kyrie can close the gap, but, to the point, you gotta play.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby kman_holla8 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:42 am

leadpipe wrote:
FUDU wrote:
kman_holla8 wrote:
CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Fuck me the Nets are scary. How many rubles is Prok slipping AK47 under the table?



I think the Bulls are more scary, just by getting Derrick Rose back. The Nets will be good but they can't have any depth, and I wonder how there going to split up the ball enough to get everybody enough shots to be productive. DWill/ Pierce are used to having the ball in there hands and JJohnson was feuding with DWill last year over not getting the ball enough. Kidd could really have his hands full coaching players who see him as a buddy and equal...


Rose has played exactly 39 games in the past two season, 0 of them in the most recent season, so does the Bulls getting him back make them scary with the logic peeker presented about Kyrie relative to the Cavs?

Rose is arguably as fragile or more so than KI, and is he THAT much better than KI, if at all?


Rose has had basically one injury. He played 81. 78, and 81 games his first three years. And he played his full college season. Kyrie's been day to day his entire basketball existence - at least from college on. Not sure about high school, but he might have missed three weeks cause he dropped a yearbook on his toe.

It's be a very wise bet to wager that Rose will play more games than Kyrie.

And to the scary point, the point that he's waaay better than Kyrie factors in.


Rose is the last man to hoist the MVP trophy sandwiched by LBJ's 4. His MVP year the team finished with 62wins and the next year (50wins strike shortened season) after when he got hurt in the playoffs there winning% was even higher. Both years they had a better regular season record and higher seed then Miami. I know, I know that miami beat them in the playoffs...but I'm just sayin'.
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I think the bigger question with Chicago is how many of those guys want to give there all to play with them after they ALL played hurt this past year in the playoffs and he just sat there while being medically cleared to play since March and answered questions daily about his health like his return was imminent. Then he comes out during the finals and said if his team had a game TODAY he would play.

We all think very highly of KI, but if he can't play more than 70 games he will have a tough time being considered for MVP, even if he averages a triple-double for the year.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:58 am

jb wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
bookelly wrote:I glad there's optimism, but it shouldn't be because we got Bynum. If he plays three games I'll eat my shoe. He simply has no motivation or desire to play basketball. And I've watched him play 100 games. The comp I'd give him? Master-Blaster from Beyond Thunderdome...he really is just a child.


Its Bynum's Sheed In Detroit / Artest In Sactown moment.


Truth. If he can get past this being Walton's moment in San Diego.


True that too.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby rk » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:01 pm

OldDawg wrote:
bookelly wrote:Add in Brown's defense and we might have something.


Pardon my ignorance, but who is supposed to be the offensive guru on Brown's staff?
Bickerstaff (who was on his Lakers' staff)? Boylan?? I hope he has one.


Why does he need an offensive guru?

Kyrie, Waiters, Bennett, and Karasev are all offense no defense (well I'm assuming Karasev can't play D because no Euro/Ruskie can). TT and Andy are always going to have their hustle game on offense but never focal points on plays. Bynum should be able to produce just off feeds from Waiters/Irving. Zeller could use some coaching and gameplanning but if you're gameplanning in Zeller with any 3 of the guys with high offensive talent then you're doing it wrong.

Just seems like the need for an offensive genius is overstated. This isn't Lebron and 4 shmoes where someone had to figure out the best way to use a unique talent (ie. convince the dumbass to play off the ball and occasionally with his back to the rim). Cavs have plenty of guys who can score and a point guard who is going to be able to manage them.

PS EDIT: A little birdie pointed out that this is the offensive guru.

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-cav ... f-1.401641
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby OldDawg » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:34 pm

rk wrote:
OldDawg wrote:
bookelly wrote:Add in Brown's defense and we might have something.


Pardon my ignorance, but who is supposed to be the offensive guru on Brown's staff?
Bickerstaff (who was on his Lakers' staff)? Boylan?? I hope he has one.


Why does he need an offensive guru?

Kyrie, Waiters, Bennett, and Karasev are all offense no defense (well I'm assuming Karasev can't play D because no Euro/Ruskie can). TT and Andy are always going to have their hustle game on offense but never focal points on plays. Bynum should be able to produce just off feeds from Waiters/Irving. Zeller could use some coaching and gameplanning but if you're gameplanning in Zeller with any 3 of the guys with high offensive talent then you're doing it wrong.

Just seems like the need for an offensive genius is overstated. This isn't Lebron and 4 shmoes where someone had to figure out the best way to use a unique talent (ie. convince the dumbass to play off the ball and occasionally with his back to the rim). Cavs have plenty of guys who can score and a point guard who is going to be able to manage them.

PS EDIT: A little birdie pointed out that this is the offensive guru.

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-cav ... f-1.401641


Guru Igor Kokoskov, huh?
Image
They need an "offensive guru" because Mike Brown is known as a D guy and not as a particularly sound offensive guy. They need an "offensive guru" to make sure the Cavs can play offense with only one basketball. They need an "offensive guru" to make the pieces mesh. They need an "offensive guru" because even though those guys you mention might all be offense first guys, they are still not more offensively potent than your better NBA teams. You need an "offensive guru" because I watched the Cavs summer league game yesterday (cue Eye rant on summer league means nothing) and DWaiters has no idea whatsoever on what a good shot is. They need an offensive guru because he coached an all-star team at LA and still struggled to flow on offense. I know many folks think that NBA coaches just let them play on offense, but there is a decent amount of coaching done regarding spacing, reads, screening options/reads, cutting reads, double-team options, etc.

Edit: Bill Belichek is considered a football genius and failed as his own OC when coaching the Browns (BB is a D guy as well).
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby rk » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:20 pm

OldDawg wrote:You need an "offensive guru" because I watched the Cavs summer league game yesterday (cue Eye rant on summer league means nothing) and DWaiters has no idea whatsoever on what a good shot is.


Summer league means nothing.

It's like being at the golf range or a batting cage. He's just trying out things he's worked on, remembering the feel of the game, and not worried about anything 'team' related. Like everyone else in the summer league with a guaranteed contract.

The reality of the NBA is that when coaches force players to play defense they necessarily suffer on the offensive side because of fewer fast breaks, less energy later in the game, and

Also no one can tell Lebron or Kobe how to play. Had Lebron listened to MB and executed when he was here the Cavs would have had a much better shot of wining. He began to execute in Miami not because of Spoelstra's offensive acumen but because of the players around him convincing him to execute.

Same here. Offensive guru or not if Andrew Bynum doesn't feel like playin on days that end in a Y then some Russian dude with a chalkboard isn't going to help.

Kyrie Irving, otoh, can help. Either by throwing the ball in the back of Bynums skull on a random night when he's not paying attention or, more likely, just by not giving it to AB unless he's the best option.

Also I'm going to ignore the Belichick bait other than to note that he has been the single most innovative offensive HC in the game over the past 10 years and has done little or nothing innovative on the defensive side. He has reinvented his offense multiple times in the last 5 years and most recently had the best, most balanced offense in the league.

If you are using him as an example of a HC with a preference for one aspect of the game growing into the most respected, well rounded coach in his game well you must think very highly of MB.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby OldDawg » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:42 pm

I am just not convinced that MB is a good offensive coach. I think he needs offensive coaching help. You're not going to convince me otherwise.

BTW, good defense should lead to more fast breaks. If you block shots, or if you create turnovers or bad shots, those tend to lead to fast break opportunities. Poor defense tends to lead to taking the ball out of bounds before you can fast break.

I agree that team leadership within the team (hopefully KI) can help your offense. But there certainly needs to be a sound structural foundation within which your offense operates. This foundation puts your players in the best places for them to succeed with respect to their individual abilities. It puts the defense in situations where they have tough decisions to make (do I help out on LeBron's penetration, leaving Battier open to go 6 for 8 on the 3-point line). A creative offensive coach creates these situations.

NBA offense is all about pick and roll, spacing, penetrate and pitch. Its how you create the best opportunities for those.

Often when watching an NBA game, you will see a few early offense cuts, screens and action that seemingly accomplish nothing... the offense makes little or no attempt to score off that action. However, you can bet your bottom dollar there is a reason for that movement. Maybe its to get the defense to shift slightly to one side as you prepare to attack the other. Or to make the D spread out. Or maybe its to create an isolation in the post at the end. That kind of action does not happen by accident just because the players want to. A sound offensive mind puts it together. Its all about details.

Edit: I also believe/agree that LeBron was part of the answer and part of the problem on offense with the Cavs. When MB had him post up, he'd still be 17' from the post because he refused to fight for post position. He'd rather step out off the block and face up. Also LeSettle was a huge problem as well. He'd also carry the team for stretches and consequently, no one else had a chance to be in the flow (darned if you do, darned if you don't). An offensive coach who earns the respect of his players contributes to players "doing what they are told."
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby OldDawg » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:08 pm

rk wrote:Also I'm going to ignore the Belichick bait other than to note that he has been the single most innovative offensive HC in the game over the past 10 years and has done little or nothing innovative on the defensive side. He has reinvented his offense multiple times in the last 5 years and most recently had the best, most balanced offense in the league.

If you are using him as an example of a HC with a preference for one aspect of the game growing into the most respected, well rounded coach in his game well you must think very highly of MB.


Hoodie evolved into a good offensive coach over time. When he was with the Browns, he had a great defensive mind and didn't hire an OC, he was the OC. In his first HC job, a) that was too much, and b) he wasn't ready to be an OC at the same time. I believe that was one of his undoings in Cleveland. If I recall, he has as much as admitted that. When he got the Pats gig, he hired an OC.

Don't get me wrong, being a great defensive coach helps one be a good offensive coach. A great defensive coach asks, "what is hard to defend," then employs that scheme as an offensive coach. However, the defensive coach might not understand all the details and nuances of that scheme as much as the offensive coach does.

I have heard Keith Dambrot of Akron say "we try to take advantage of a team's defensive strengths." In other words, if an opponent defends a situation well (double team the pick and roll, for example), they create that situation and constantly attack with counters.

EDIT: Either one of us suggesting MB's defensive mind is as good as Hoodie's is a stretch. He has a good D reputation, but his rep on D wasn't as hailed as much as Hoodie's was as a DC in the NFL. Suggesting that MB has evolved on offense as much as Hoodie has is an even bigger stretch.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:14 pm

Masfresco (CJ) was tweeting at the FtS guys that he had seen Kyrie in the gym, and that he's noticeably stronger now than last season. He's still just a yoot, there's a chance he bulks up a little bit to address some of those problems.

I'm hoping that some work in the offseason and less minutes keeps Kyrie in the 60 game range, which would be fine given the quality of depth behind him. (Dion did fine running the point last season, and JJ is a solid contributor)
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby googleeph2 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:33 pm

Boy, Irving sure didn't look very big while sitting between Steve Kerr and Reggie Miller during the summer league game the other day.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:46 pm

Boy, that's a great indicator of strength in a point guard.....bigness.
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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:47 pm

FWIW, the John Hnat column on the home page pointed out that Andy never got hurt coming off the bench but went down three years in a row once he started playing starter's minutes. If Bynum can play Andy will be back to coming off the bench.

Hnat sees at least 50 wins this year, mainly due to the elimination of thousands of minutes played by Boobie, Miles, Walton, Casspi, Gee, and Zeller, and those minutes being replaced by Bynum, Clark, Jack, Bennett, and Varajao.

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Re: Cavs / NBA 2013 Free Agency

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:38 am

Oden taking his talents to South Beach. reportedly signing for $1 million.

http://tracking.si.com/2013/08/02/greg- ... &eref=sihp
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