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The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:59 pm

Not a huge Robinson fan and was happy when they didn't draft him at 4, but I do think he's better than anything we could get at 19.


Agree 100%

Interesting to see what, if anything, this says about TT in a future trade.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby ajunior148 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:24 pm

pup wrote:
ajunior148 wrote:Taking Karasev will be a wasted draft pick. The guy is going to immediately become the most unathletic guy on the roster of whatever team drafts him. He won't be able to see the floor to use his shooting ability.

I don't think he ever finds his way into a significant role on a NBA rotation. Just too poor of an athlete.

Take Bullock instead.


Seen a lot of Russian games have ya?


I have seen Karasev play. Have you?
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:26 pm

Well, whatever your opinion of the guy Woj has the Cavs trying hard to get to the 13 to get him and says "that may not be high enough".
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby pup » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:29 pm

ajunior148 wrote:
pup wrote:
ajunior148 wrote:Taking Karasev will be a wasted draft pick. The guy is going to immediately become the most unathletic guy on the roster of whatever team drafts him. He won't be able to see the floor to use his shooting ability.

I don't think he ever finds his way into a significant role on a NBA rotation. Just too poor of an athlete.

Take Bullock instead.


Seen a lot of Russian games have ya?


I have seen Karasev play. Have you?


Nope.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:31 pm

OldDawg wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:There is no dramatic change, which is your failure.
Eye, I really respect your knowledge of NBA basketball. And you are certainly known for your strong stances and your taking to task when posters change their tune. You know, I don't really care that you changed your stance. I really don't. The only reason I brought it up is that is ironic because you always call others out on things like this. I kinda think its a little comical. However, I am sorry, but your stance on Len going from
e0y2e3 wrote:Fuck Len, soft as motherscratcher. There is one thing the Cavs could do to ruin my semblance of faith in them. That thing is drafting Len.
to
e0y2e3 wrote:As for Len and Noel, meh.,, here's to the right MRI winning!
is clearly quite a drastic change. Both guys were injured when you made you initial comments as well.

Wow. Its no biggie to me. But that's a change of stance. Going from no way they should draft Len to its a toss-up on MRIs is a change.
But you're inability to admit that this is a change is your failure. Your calling it my failure is your greater failure.

Again, I don't really care. It is what it is.



Do both of you guys see that lil "PM" button on the upper right corner?

' sayin'.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:37 pm

He was trolling trying to catch me in something I never said JB, that stuff doesn't get PM'd.

As I said again yesterday, picking Len over a healthy Noel would be an atrocity and would be done because Gilbert wants playoffs next year rather than to wait. That would be a disgusting failure. If Noel's not healthy I don't give a fuck what they do, but going for a substitute 7 footer just because you aren't patient would be disgusting.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby ajunior148 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:42 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Well, whatever your opinion of the guy Woj has the Cavs trying hard to get to the 13 to get him and says "that may not be high enough".


I saw that. Would be a mistake, IMO. Please let somebody grab this guy before us.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:23 pm

This Pelicans deal is certainly interesting. #1 for #6 (whoever is left of Noel, Len, Porter, Peedo, McLemore and Bennet), an unprotected #1 next year and Grevis Vazquez who is actually a damn good PG.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:27 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:This Pelicans deal is certainly interesting. #1 for #6 (whoever is left of Noel, Len, Porter, Peedo, McLemore and Bennet), an unprotected #1 next year and Grevis Vazquez who is actually a damn good PG.


They would give up an unprotected first in the Wiggins sweepstakes? For someone in this turd sandwich of a draft?
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:27 pm

New Orleans would have to be on crack to make that deal, highly doubt it without at least Top 5 protection on next year's pick. And even then it would be dumb. #1 through #6 looks as interchangeable as ever, you get to pay the pick a little less, and Vazquez is a legitimate asset like you said.

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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:33 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:He was trolling trying to catch me in something I never said JB, that stuff doesn't get PM'd.



Raise yer hands if you wish it would.

But back to the line about 'bazz at top of round 2.

What kills me is that there WILL ultimatey nd up being a player or two out of this draft that makes it and is better than solid. The problem is anyone's guess is as good as anyone's as to who it is.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:36 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:This Pelicans deal is certainly interesting. #1 for #6 (whoever is left of Noel, Len, Porter, Peedo, McLemore and Bennet), an unprotected #1 next year and Grevis Vazquez who is actually a damn good PG.


It was swell of the Cavaliers to remind me that there is an NBA team named the Pelicans.

However, I see no other practical benefit to anyone for taking the time to make this offer.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:37 pm

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:
Not a huge Robinson fan and was happy when they didn't draft him at 4, but I do think he's better than anything we could get at 19.


Agree 100%

Interesting to see what, if anything, this says about TT in a future trade.



What is the consesnus on why Robinson hasn't made it?
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:38 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:This Pelicans deal is certainly interesting. #1 for #6 (whoever is left of Noel, Len, Porter, Peedo, McLemore and Bennet), an unprotected #1 next year and Grevis Vazquez who is actually a damn good PG.


It was swell of the Cavaliers to remind me that there is an NBA team named the Pelicans.

However, I see no other practical benefit to anyone for taking the time to make this offer.


I think I might even trade down from 1 to 6 just for Vazquez. That's how much this draft sucks.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:39 pm

The King situation was an abortion, can't really hold that again him too much. And Houston acquired him with the sole intent of flipping him in the future, not to keep him. His ceiling certainly isn't what it was thought to be last year but T-Rob has absolutely not been in ideal situations to develop.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:45 pm

The honest truth is I've never been less interested in a draft than this year's. So yeah, I'd probably do 1 for 6 and Greivis just to get a great quality top guard behind Kyrie and Waiters.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:49 pm

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 4m
One of the primary targets of Oklahoma City's pursuit of a Top 5 pick on Thursday, sources tell Y! Sports: Maryland 7-footer Alex Len.


You know, Sam, you could've told us this before you traded Harden.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:51 pm

Well, if there is one position Sam Presti has a shitty track record with it's fugly centers ranging from Cole Aldrich to BJ Mullens to Perk.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:12 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Well, if there is one position Sam Presti has a shitty track record with it's fugly centers ranging from Cole Aldrich to BJ Mullens to Perk.



Its no longer "BJ". It's Byron, thank you.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:16 pm

That last part seems of importance... Don't see why the Pels take that deal...

No word on whether New Orleans has expressed interest in such a deal.

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Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/cavaliers-off ... LkmEtwr.99
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:19 pm

Noel and Unibrow would be an insane front court though.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:32 pm

Oh and the craziest rumor out there today is Mike Browns loving Bennet, who can score for sure but is undersized to play the four and too slow to guard SFs. Guy is going to be a major defensive headache to whoever takes him.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby StewieG » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:50 pm

Yeah, I think that Bennet thing is a bunch of BS.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:09 pm

If the Pelican deal is legit, it'd be done already if it were me. No question whatsoever. That's a steal in my opinion.

UNLESS

They checked out Noel and are supremely confident in his rehab and future.

To not do the deal for Alex fuckin Len would be nothing short of a disaster. And I'm not sold that Bennett is the one that's there at 6.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:13 pm

Local hack on local radio says the Cavaliers will take Len. This was probably on WKNR and was Joe Kotoch.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:18 pm

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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:20 pm

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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:27 pm

AMICO ALERT OJ
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby OldDawg » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:27 pm

I just heard talk of Cavs trade #1 for #4 and Kidd-Gilchrest.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby OldDawg » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:34 pm

I've been wondering since the day of the lottery if the Cavs were too eager to say they were shopping the #1 pick. Did that eagerness devalue the pick and make people lowball them in trade offers.

At the same time, what I have read is that the Cavs have asked for too much for it and over-valued the pick's worth.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:42 pm

OldDawg wrote:I just heard talk of Cavs trade #1 for #4 and Kidd-Gilchrest.


You serious Clark?
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby OldDawg » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:00 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
OldDawg wrote:I just heard talk of Cavs trade #1 for #4 and Kidd-Gilchrest.


You serious Clark?


Clark?
It was one of the trade rumors thrown out on the 6:00 news. First and only time I'd heard it.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby JJN » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:19 pm

OldDawg wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
OldDawg wrote:I just heard talk of Cavs trade #1 for #4 and Kidd-Gilchrest.


You serious Clark?


Clark?
It was one of the trade rumors thrown out on the 6:00 news. First and only time I'd heard it.


In his chat today, Ford said that MKG wasn't being shopped.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:44 pm

OldDawg wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
OldDawg wrote:I just heard talk of Cavs trade #1 for #4 and Kidd-Gilchrest.


You serious Clark?


Clark?
It was one of the trade rumors thrown out on the 6:00 news. First and only time I'd heard it.


I don't doubt for a second that it was thrown out there by someone somewhere. It just seemed completely ridiculous. Like it was dreamed up by Costanza or something. I mean, if MKG was coming out this year, wouldn't he be by far the #1 pick?
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:56 pm

motherscratcher wrote:I mean, if MKG was coming out this year, wouldn't he be by far the #1 pick?


No.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:57 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:I mean, if MKG was coming out this year, wouldn't he be by far the #1 pick?


No.


Wow, did he shit the bed that bad last year? Was not aware of that.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:04 pm

I liked MKG less than others, but I think you're getting a little caught up in e0's hyperbole.

Nerlens Noel is a fine pick at #1 if his knees aren't made out of mashed potatoes. Oladipo & Porter are both really nice players. I'd put McLemore ahead of MKG too, but only because I liked Barnes more than MKG last year, and McLemore basically =s Barnes at SG, IMO.

This doesn't have to be a situation where we all jump off a building if Nerlens' knee is a complete mess.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:12 pm

In my defense, e0 does have a sweet sweet hyperbole, does he not?

And, even if you've like MKG less than others, it does seem a little silly for a team to just give him away to move up 3 spots for Noel.

Doesn't matter anyway because it's not happening.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:43 pm

The interesting aspect of this draft, to me, is that it is well known that the advanced draft analytics have played a huge role in the Cavs drafts under Grant. This year all of the analytics have Noel at one and pretty much hate Len, yet we seem to be looking at the Cavs taking Len.

Woot!

(analytics also hate McLemore)
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:49 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:The interesting aspect of this draft, to me, is that it is well known that the advanced draft analytics have played a huge role in the Cavs drafts under Grant. This year all of the analytics have Noel at one and pretty much hate Len, yet we seem to be looking at the Cavs taking Len.

Woot!

(analytics also hate McLemore)


Encouraging!

I don't subscribe to ESPN Insidaz anymore, and I'm pretty sure the guy who did those rankings left anyway--do you know how The Maths like Oladipo & Porter?
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:53 pm

Relevant WARP predictions from the guy that replaced Hollinger stolen by Google leading me to RCF:

1. NERLENS NOEL, C, 3.6
2. OTTO PORTER, SF, 2.7
3. KENTAVIOUS CALDWELL-POPE, SG, 2.6
4. CODY ZELLER, PF, 2.5
5. C.J. MCCOLLUM, PG, 2.5
6. LUCAS NOGUEIRA, C, 2.4
7. TREY BURKE, PG, 2.2
8. ANTHONY BENNETT, PF, 2.1
9. MICHAEL CARTER-WILLIAMS, PG, 2.0
10. SERGEY KARASEV, SG, 2.0
11. STEVEN ADAMS, C, 1.9
12. GLEN RICE JR., SF, 1.6
13. SHANE LARKIN, PG, 1.6
14. TONY MITCHELL, PF, 1.5
15. ALLEN CRABBE, SG, 1.1
16. KELLY OLYNYK, PF, 1.1
17. VICTOR OLADIPO, SG, 1.1
18. BEN MCLEMORE, SG, 1.1
.....
23. ALEX LEN, C, 0.3
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:58 pm

It should be noted that these analytics take the entire college career into considerations and weight more success at earlier ages high, which really hurts PEEDO.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:00 am

Were the mathy rankings from the last two drafts that coincidentally seemed to match Grant's board based on WARP, though? I don't remember. I do remember that Hollinger had separate rankings for smalluns & bigguns.

Either way, I'd be pretty content with Otto Porter as a surprise pick if Nerlens' knee is just too sketchy.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby JJN » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:28 am

e0y2e3 wrote:The interesting aspect of this draft, to me, is that it is well known that the advanced draft analytics have played a huge role in the Cavs drafts under Grant. This year all of the analytics have Noel at one and pretty much hate Len, yet we seem to be looking at the Cavs taking Len.

Woot!

(analytics also hate McLemore)


This is what I have used to convince myself that we aren't taking Len (who I actually wouldn't mind later in the lotto). This team has made all its high draft choices based on analytics, and I have yet to see a system that rates Len highly with analytics.

Without the ACL, Noel is far and away the number 1 pick in this draft. Easy choice.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby OldDawg » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:31 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Relevant WARP predictions from the guy that replaced Hollinger stolen by Google leading me to RCF:

1. NERLENS NOEL, C, 3.6
2. OTTO PORTER, SF, 2.7
3. KENTAVIOUS CALDWELL-POPE, SG, 2.6

23. ALEX LEN, C, 0.3


Crap! It's not too far of a stretch at all that we could draft 2 of the top 3 analytics by staying pat. I once joked on here about drafting Kentavious Caldwell-Pope because he must be a cousin of Barkevious Mingo, who the Brownies drafted in the 1st round. It seems that KCP's stock has risen during the past couple months, though. Many early mocks had him going right around our #19 pick, while more recent mocks having him not making it that far.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby OldDawg » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:33 am

JJN wrote:Without the ACL, Noel is far and away the number 1 pick in this draft. Easy choice.

Noel blows everyone away by these analytics.

Has anyone ever done a study to find out if these analytics are a good predictor of NBA success?
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby OldDawg » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:00 am

SI's Chris Mannix has the Cavs drafting Noel at #1 and Giannis Adetokunbo at #19 (a 6'9" SF from Greece) and stashing him overseas for a couple years.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba-dr ... =uk_t11_a7

What I like about that is that Noel might be shelved for the year and if we stash #19, we are back in the Wiggins sweepstakes with a decent number of ping pong balls. Although at some point during the rest of my lifetime I hope to be pulling for a championship and not for more ping pong balls.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:13 am

Lloyd, who is the only Cavs beat reporter at all connected said earlier that Cavs have zero interest in Giannis. Mannix has also changed his tune since this afternoon toward Len.
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby OldDawg » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:17 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Mannix has also changed his tune since this afternoon toward Len.

How so?
Does that mean that Mannix had us taking Noel and now thinks we're taking Len????
I hope not!!
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Re: The Cavs pick(s) in the first round

Unread postby StewieG » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:17 am

This feels like Noel or Porter to me. We haven't heard anything at all about Porter and the Cavs, and if there's one thing Grant likes to do it's spread disinformation around. I don't think the Cavs are all that serious about Len...I think it's just Grand spreading BS.
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