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Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

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Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:29 pm

Thought that's what I read on the screen at racquetball?
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:41 pm

Yeah. Blaming it on codeine in cough medicine prescribe by MD for strep throat in February.

Nt sure I buy that completely, but if true it's an epically stupid policy.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby General » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:51 pm

Is uloric a banned substance? In case my operations career goes south.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:52 pm

Joe Haden, Josh Gordon .... who will it be next year?

What a wonderful present from you for Browns fans Josh!!!! This will really help another season get off to a good start, kinda like last year!!!????

You better be real good when you return, Mr. Gordon, or you are going to experience the wrath of tens of thousands of fans in the stadium and online.

Thanks for nothing for dropping a bomb on the optimism coming out of Browns camp. Selfish idiots like you are just one man wrecking crews, aren't you? But this is what happens often when teams take a chance on self-destruct characters like Gordon.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby fairvis » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:50 pm

Codeine based cough syrup. A prime ingredient in purple drank, but can be legitimate. Must've had some paperwork so that the NFL only gave him 2 games instead of the 4 they could have.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:57 pm

Purple draaaaaaaaank!!!!
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:28 pm

peeker643 wrote:Purple draaaaaaaaank!!!!


Purple Drank and a quack Doctor to write a script after he got tested is my guess. Shouldn't the team Doctors write EVERY script for EVERY player? If not, that is all kinds of stupid on the Browns part.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:41 am

That's a really good point you raise about the role of the team doctor. He should have been consulted.

You'd think after the Haden incident last year the whole team, including Gordon, would be up on the rules. But maybe Gordon knew he was skirting dangerous territory and didn't care. Amazing. The kid has so much promise and a lot of people trying to help and he still screws up. This casts a cloud over him for sure -- some learn from mistakes, others just keep repeating them.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby General » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:28 pm

These guys are million dollar idiots
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:28 pm

AttackOffense wrote:That's a really good point you raise about the role of the team doctor. He should have been consulted.

You'd think after the Haden incident last year the whole team, including Gordon, would be up on the rules. But maybe Gordon knew he was skirting dangerous territory and didn't care. Amazing. The kid has so much promise and a lot of people trying to help and he still screws up. This casts a cloud over him for sure -- some learn from mistakes, others just keep repeating them.


Maybe the whole "prescription codeine" thing is bullshit.

The players can say the violation is anything they want to say it was. League/Team can't say anything about the specifics. Gordon putting it off on someone else or as an innocent mistake stinks to high heaven. Those three failed college drug tests were earned and I'd bet this was one was too.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:15 pm

peeker643 wrote:
AttackOffense wrote:That's a really good point you raise about the role of the team doctor. He should have been consulted.

You'd think after the Haden incident last year the whole team, including Gordon, would be up on the rules. But maybe Gordon knew he was skirting dangerous territory and didn't care. Amazing. The kid has so much promise and a lot of people trying to help and he still screws up. This casts a cloud over him for sure -- some learn from mistakes, others just keep repeating them.


Maybe the whole "prescription codeine" thing is bullshit.

The players can say the violation is anything they want to say it was. League/Team can't say anything about the specifics. Gordon putting it off on someone else or as an innocent mistake stinks to high heaven. Those three failed college drug tests were earned and I'd bet this was one was too.


How bout once in your life being responsible.

Team Doctor not there to hold your hand? Christ.

Every single one of these guys, that ain't either A. A Liar or B. A God damned moron knows EXACTLY what they are putting in their bodies, and the ramifications.

Blindly go to GNC and pop something from a bottle you didn't read? Moron.

Medicate yourself without knowing the ingredients? Moron.

Most of these guys getting caught knew exactly what they are doing and try to bullshit their way out.

The rest are morons.

Those are your two choices. That simple.

Think about if you had a job paying high six figures to millions, predicated on random drug tests. What would you call the co - worker who ingests things he's either unaware, or knows nothing about.

Chrisdity Christ Christ.

Cough mnedicine my balls.

Now shake it off and go catch some footballs.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:23 am

Really excellent response from you that sums up the feelings of a lot of Browns fans.

Geez. Browns have some real problems with high draft picks -- Winslow, Edwards, the NT from Florida, Haden.

I think if Gordon does it again and gets suspended a year by the NFL that the Browns should just dump him.

If I were the Browns, I'd look to draft a quality WR in next year's draft as an insurance policy.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:25 am

General wrote:These guys are million dollar idiots


That's the best, most succinct comment I have read yet about the Gordon situation! Really good one! Sad, but true.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:36 pm

AttackOffense wrote:You better be real good when you return, Mr. Gordon, or you are going to experience the wrath of tens of thousands of fans in the stadium and online.


Do that many people really care? If Josh Gordon was eaten alive by a pack of flying piranha tomorrow, I couldn't be less interested.

I saw it on the ticker, made a snarky remark to no one in particular about "if the offense could possibly get worse", then continued with whatever it was I was doing.

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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby BruceK » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:42 pm

Is he the one who races around town in a camoflauged-colored Porsche?

If so, I saw him Wednesday coming up out of the Flats
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:53 pm

First 2 games of the 2013 season

Without Josh Gordon
Loss to Miami
Loss at Baltimore

With Josh Gordon
Loss to Miami
Loss at Baltimore
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:40 am

mattvan1 wrote:First 2 games of the 2013 season

Without Josh Gordon
Loss to Miami
Loss at Baltimore

With Josh Gordon
Loss to Miami
Loss at Baltimore


They always beat Miami, which is a meh team at best, but conversely they always lose the opener, so there are two immovable forces at play.

Whether or not Josh Gordon is playing probably won't be the deciding factor.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby justmebd » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:02 am

So let's review here:

1. We have a quarterback who probably won't be the quarterback by the end of the season.
2. We have a running back who has a snowball's chance in hell of staying healthy for an entire season.
3. We've switched our defensive scheme AGAIN.
4. We have an owner who probably won't be an owner by the end of the season.

How is Josh Gordon missing two games the key to our season? I'm taking it as a given he's going to smoke/purple drank himself out of the league.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:21 am

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:First 2 games of the 2013 season

Without Josh Gordon
Loss to Miami
Loss at Baltimore

With Josh Gordon
Loss to Miami
Loss at Baltimore


They always beat Miami, which is a meh team at best, but conversely they always lose the opener, so there are two immovable forces at play.

Whether or not Josh Gordon is playing probably won't be the deciding factor.


Not sure if I agree with that. I think Gordon's presence in stretching defenses will makes a bigger difference in 2013 than 2012 because the kid and the QB are more experienced.

One of the things that dismays me about the whole Gordon thing is that this adds another distraction for a very young team trying to get good that needs to be focused.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:32 am

AttackOffense wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:First 2 games of the 2013 season

Without Josh Gordon
Loss to Miami
Loss at Baltimore

With Josh Gordon
Loss to Miami
Loss at Baltimore


They always beat Miami, which is a meh team at best, but conversely they always lose the opener, so there are two immovable forces at play.

Whether or not Josh Gordon is playing probably won't be the deciding factor.


Not sure if I agree with that. I think Gordon's presence in stretching defenses will makes a bigger difference in 2013 than 2012 because the kid and the QB are more experienced.

One of the things that dismays me about the whole Gordon thing is that this adds another distraction for a very young team trying to get good that needs to be focused.


The thing that matters in this league ain't who's catching it - it's who's getting it to him.

If he stinks, you stink.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:03 am

Weeden showed last year he can get plenty of balls to Gordon. Neither will "stink", far too simplistic.

Gordon will get his share of stats.

The problem is that Weeden will likely get plenty of balls to the opposition as well, and the D won't be good enough to win it by themselves. Oh, and the run game will not provide much support.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:04 am

BruceK wrote:Is he the one who races around town in a camoflauged-colored Porsche?

If so, I saw him Wednesday coming up out of the Flats


Yes. And it's a tight race as to whether drugs derail his career or he Bobby Phil's himself in that car.

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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby pod2dawg » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:53 am

^^^^^^^^^^ :lmfao:
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:55 am

Look for th Browns to draft a receiver in 2014.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:04 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Weeden showed last year he can get plenty of balls to Gordon. Neither will "stink", far too simplistic.

Gordon will get his share of stats.

The problem is that Weeden will likely get plenty of balls to the opposition as well, and the D won't be good enough to win it by themselves. Oh, and the run game will not provide much support.


Didn't say Gordon stinks. Said he's a liar, dumb as a stump - or more likely, a combination of the two.

Weeden stinks.

And the run game not providing support - why do you think I was practically punching myself in the face at the Wright Place last year?
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:34 pm

AttackOffense wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:First 2 games of the 2013 season

Without Josh Gordon
Loss to Miami
Loss at Baltimore

With Josh Gordon
Loss to Miami
Loss at Baltimore


They always beat Miami, which is a meh team at best, but conversely they always lose the opener, so there are two immovable forces at play.

Whether or not Josh Gordon is playing probably won't be the deciding factor.


Not sure if I agree with that. I think Gordon's presence in stretching defenses will makes a bigger difference in 2013 than 2012 because the kid and the QB are more experienced.

One of the things that dismays me about the whole Gordon thing is that this adds another distraction for a very young team trying to get good that needs to be focused.


How exactly is this a distraction? Guy goes all of camp and plays in all of the X games, then sits out 2. i really don't see the big deal. Travis Benjamin steps up and problem solved.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:49 pm

leadpipe wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Weeden showed last year he can get plenty of balls to Gordon. Neither will "stink", far too simplistic.

Gordon will get his share of stats.

The problem is that Weeden will likely get plenty of balls to the opposition as well, and the D won't be good enough to win it by themselves. Oh, and the run game will not provide much support.


Didn't say Gordon stinks. Said he's a liar, dumb as a stump - or more likely, a combination of the two.

Weeden stinks.

And the run game not providing support - why do you think I was practically punching myself in the face at the Wright Place last year?


I was speaking to your assertion that Gordon will "stink" because Weeden "stinks". Even with a "stinky" QB, Gordon had a good year last year, and will likely have a better one this season (even with the 2 game suspension).

I know it's semantics, but if Weeden "stinks", what term do you use for the Colt McCoys/Brady Quinns/Charlie Fryes of the world? Does the scale go Awesome, Really Good, Serviceable, Meh, Stinks, Sucks, Better Off Dead?
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:51 pm

I think the scale goes playa, stinks.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:37 pm

motherscratcher wrote:I think the scale goes playa, stinks.


There is a pretty wide space for mediocre.

Unfortunately, if we are going to argue the merits of Browns quarterbacks over the last 15 years, we'll be doing it well below the stink line.

Being better than Colt McCoy ain't good enough to get you out.

And if they could find a mediocre one, pehaps he'd stick in the starters role for longer than a month - hence not having the need for 9,000 different starters since they've come back.

At the end of the day, the differences between Colt, Quinn, Chazzy and Weeds may be dicernable - or may not be. The one thing that will be clear is you ain't gonna win with any one of them.

Cause they stink.

And Gordon won't stink because Weeds does - the team will stink because Weeds does.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:46 pm

Really, I was just looking for a creative new slur for Colt. Something like "I would rank Colt as Anal Fungus."

The merits and rankings of Browns QB's (and QB's in general) is a horse too dead to beat. I agree that our current QB stinks until further evidence is revealed. And I also agree that "Better Than Anal Fungus" isn't necessarily a compliment.

I think that if there's any point I'm trying to make it's that Colt should burn in Hell.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:24 pm

If I saw a camo painted Porsche, I would immediately assume the driver is a Codeine addict.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:48 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:If I saw a camo painted Porsche, I would immediately assume the driver is a Codeine addict.



Well that's the point of the camo Porsche.

You won't see it and therefore won't know about the driver.

Gordon is a genius to go with the camo. He could actually have weed sitting on the hood and it's impossible to know.

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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby jb » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:03 pm

The truth about JG's sincereity will be revealed in time.

But I actually feel kind of bad for the kid if his version is on the up and up.

used to LOVE me some codeine boliermaker and Maker's Mark when I was sick & got that scrip...
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:44 pm

Apparently, purple drank and Xanax is the big thing now.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:58 pm

quote]

How exactly is this a distraction? Guy goes all of camp and plays in all of the X games, then sits out 2. i really don't see the big deal. Travis Benjamin steps up and problem solved.[/quote]

Don't think for a moment that Browns players don't read and hear the hundreds of thousands of words of gloom and doom surrounding the Gordon fiasco and its impact on the team to start the season. And they'll be asked about it over and over by the media as the summer progresses. Yes, it is a distraction, especially when one considers the same kind of thing happened last year and, breathlessly, killed the team's effort to create a positive vibe from the get-go. Do you think the 2013 version of the Haden incident is any different?

Knowing that maybe your biggest offensive and defense-stretching threat won't be there for the first two games due to human error, not injury, is a big blow.

The psyche does play a role in success or failure in team sports. Just ask the Indians. The Browns have a dark cloud hanging over their collecitve psyche, thanks to the selfish and irresponsible Gordon.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:09 pm

AttackOffense wrote:quote]

How exactly is this a distraction? Guy goes all of camp and plays in all of the X games, then sits out 2. i really don't see the big deal. Travis Benjamin steps up and problem solved.


Don't think for a moment that Browns players don't read and hear the hundreds of thousands of words of gloom and doom surrounding the Gordon fiasco and its impact on the team to start the season. And they'll be asked about it over and over by the media as the summer progresses. Yes, it is a distraction, especially when one considers the same kind of thing happened last year and, breathlessly, killed the team's effort to create a positive vibe from the get-go. Do you think the 2013 version of the Haden incident is any different?

Knowing that maybe your biggest offensive and defense-stretching threat won't be there for the first two games due to human error, not injury, is a big blow.

The psyche does play a role in success or failure in team sports. Just ask the Indians. The Browns have a dark cloud hanging over their collecitve psyche, thanks to the selfish and irresponsible Gordon.[/quote]




LP

15 years of suck has nothing to to with psyche or any other intangibles.

The fact most years you couldn't find a single GD pro-bowler is where you might start.

And the Indians aren't the Tigers cause of 3-4-5 and who's on the mound.

I wouldn't have to bring PLAYAS up so much if people stopped inventing reasons why the Cleveland teams blow.

Get some playas, win some games. No need to rack your brains.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:29 am

Your viewpoint is one a lot of people share.

But there have been a lot of teams in the history of sports with a lot of good players ... that were mediocre or worse.

Ask Andy Reid about the Eagles. Or ask Jerry Jones about the Cowboys.

Re pro bowlers, that's often a PR/awareness contest in my judgment. There have been many seasons where individialBrowns players had a better year than someone who made the pro bowl team. Kruger is way overrated, in my view, because of the success the Ravens had in the playoffs.

Of course you need good players to win, but in my judgment, there have been many situations where the Steelers and Ravens were outplayed by the Browns only to come back and win because they had the collective confidence as a team to win and Cleveland did not.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:57 am

AttackOffense wrote:Of course you need good players to win, but in my judgment, there have been many situations where the Steelers and Ravens were outplayed by the Browns only to come back and win because they had the collective confidence as a team to win and Cleveland did not.


There's merit to that.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:40 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
AttackOffense wrote:Of course you need good players to win, but in my judgment, there have been many situations where the Steelers and Ravens were outplayed by the Browns only to come back and win because they had the collective confidence as a team to win and Cleveland did not.


There's merit to that.


Name a Raven or Steeler team with a worse roster than the Browns in the last 15 years.

Intangibles might be the difference between two teams equally talented, but it's not close to the difference between a talented team, and a team with zero talent.

The Eagles had a guy who stinks at the most important position on the field. As do the Browns. They both lost. Give one of those teams talent at that position, and give the other team intangibles, and see who comes out on top.

By far.

The Dodgers new corner outfielder is a loose cannon. He's gonna overthrow the cut-off man, he's gonna run you out of some innings. But he's a PLAYA. The Tribe has a fundamentally sound Michael Brantley. Who would 32 teams take to help them win?

Really, again...get some players, win some games.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:50 pm

AttackOffense wrote:
Don't think for a moment that Browns players don't read and hear the hundreds of thousands of words of gloom and doom surrounding the Gordon fiasco and its impact on the team to start the season. And they'll be asked about it over and over by the media as the summer progresses. Yes, it is a distraction, especially when one considers the same kind of thing happened last year and, breathlessly, killed the team's effort to create a positive vibe from the get-go. Do you think the 2013 version of the Haden incident is any different?

Knowing that maybe your biggest offensive and defense-stretching threat won't be there for the first two games due to human error, not injury, is a big blow.

The psyche does play a role in success or failure in team sports. Just ask the Indians. The Browns have a dark cloud hanging over their collecitve psyche, thanks to the selfish and irresponsible Gordon.


Poor babies. Boo fucking hoo. Wow. Is this a team of NFL professionals or a CYO team of 6th graders?

Yes, attitude, confidence, and belief all play a significant role in success. And that is driven by the staff and the idea that the team is stronger as a unit who have each others backs and the notion that someone will step up when a guy goes down. So if anyone on this Browns team is going to lose their shit because Gordon is going to miss two games then those players need to pack their bags now. Real NFL teams overcome injuries and suspensions all the time. They don't whine and cry about someone being out, regardless of the reason.

To try and paint Gordon's 2 game suspension as some type of catastrophic event is absurd. But at least you'll have a built in excuse to bitch about.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:58 pm

leadpipe wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
AttackOffense wrote:Of course you need good players to win, but in my judgment, there have been many situations where the Steelers and Ravens were outplayed by the Browns only to come back and win because they had the collective confidence as a team to win and Cleveland did not.


There's merit to that.


Name a Raven or Steeler team with a worse roster than the Browns in the last 15 years.

Intangibles might be the difference between two teams equally talented, but it's not close to the difference between a talented team, and a team with zero talent.

The Eagles had a guy who stinks at the most important position on the field. As do the Browns. They both lost. Give one of those teams talent at that position, and give the other team intangibles, and see who comes out on top.

By far.

The Dodgers new corner outfielder is a loose cannon. He's gonna overthrow the cut-off man, he's gonna run you out of some innings. But he's a PLAYA. The Tribe has a fundamentally sound Michael Brantley. Who would 32 teams take to help them win?

Really, again...get some players, win some games.


So every time a Browns team got a lead on Ravens or Steelers and then blew it in the end it was all because of talent. The Steelers and Ravens knowing a team like the Browns would fold under pressure had nothing to do with it. Got it.

I agree that MOST of the disparity is due to the talent gap. But it is foolish to say that team psyche is a non-factor.

The most talented NFL team entering the season very rarely wins the Super Bowl. Tons of factors outside sheer talent level.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:48 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
AttackOffense wrote:Of course you need good players to win, but in my judgment, there have been many situations where the Steelers and Ravens were outplayed by the Browns only to come back and win because they had the collective confidence as a team to win and Cleveland did not.


There's merit to that.


Name a Raven or Steeler team with a worse roster than the Browns in the last 15 years.

Intangibles might be the difference between two teams equally talented, but it's not close to the difference between a talented team, and a team with zero talent.

The Eagles had a guy who stinks at the most important position on the field. As do the Browns. They both lost. Give one of those teams talent at that position, and give the other team intangibles, and see who comes out on top.

By far.

The Dodgers new corner outfielder is a loose cannon. He's gonna overthrow the cut-off man, he's gonna run you out of some innings. But he's a PLAYA. The Tribe has a fundamentally sound Michael Brantley. Who would 32 teams take to help them win?

Really, again...get some players, win some games.


So every time a Browns team got a lead on Ravens or Steelers and then blew it in the end it was all because of talent. The Steelers and Ravens knowing a team like the Browns would fold under pressure had nothing to do with it. Got it.

I agree that MOST of the disparity is due to the talent gap. But it is foolish to say that team psyche is a non-factor.

The most talented NFL team entering the season very rarely wins the Super Bowl. Tons of factors outside sheer talent level.


Where did I say it had nothing to do with it. Said it pales in comparison BY A LONGSHOT.

The most talented teams compete for the Super Bowl every year - and again, as I stated, perhaps intangibles could be a difference between them.

The least talented teams NEVER compete for a Super Bowl - in any season, no matter how chalk full of intangibles they are. Which is to the point.

And you could also draw a pretty good correlation to "folding under pressure" and "not being that good."

So yeah, I "get it" - but the Browns are trying to build a respectable team. If you want the foundation to build toward winning you'd better fill it with TALENT, and worry about all the other shit later.

As far as the one game samples in regard to the Browns not being able to hold a lead because some intangible situation. All well and good. The overall record vs. those two teams over the last 15 years - those ain't "intangible" indicators. That's two teams knowing how to draft and aquire talent - and one that doesn't. Period.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:15 pm

leadpipe wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
AttackOffense wrote:Of course you need good players to win, but in my judgment, there have been many situations where the Steelers and Ravens were outplayed by the Browns only to come back and win because they had the collective confidence as a team to win and Cleveland did not.


There's merit to that.


Name a Raven or Steeler team with a worse roster than the Browns in the last 15 years.

Intangibles might be the difference between two teams equally talented, but it's not close to the difference between a talented team, and a team with zero talent.

The Eagles had a guy who stinks at the most important position on the field. As do the Browns. They both lost. Give one of those teams talent at that position, and give the other team intangibles, and see who comes out on top.

By far.

The Dodgers new corner outfielder is a loose cannon. He's gonna overthrow the cut-off man, he's gonna run you out of some innings. But he's a PLAYA. The Tribe has a fundamentally sound Michael Brantley. Who would 32 teams take to help them win?

Really, again...get some players, win some games.


So every time a Browns team got a lead on Ravens or Steelers and then blew it in the end it was all because of talent. The Steelers and Ravens knowing a team like the Browns would fold under pressure had nothing to do with it. Got it.

I agree that MOST of the disparity is due to the talent gap. But it is foolish to say that team psyche is a non-factor.

The most talented NFL team entering the season very rarely wins the Super Bowl. Tons of factors outside sheer talent level.


Where did I say it had nothing to do with it. Said it pales in comparison BY A LONGSHOT.

The most talented teams compete for the Super Bowl every year - and again, as I stated, perhaps intangibles could be a difference between them.

The least talented teams NEVER compete for a Super Bowl - in any season, no matter how chalk full of intangibles they are. Which is to the point.

And you could also draw a pretty good correlation to "folding under pressure" and "not being that good."

So yeah, I "get it" - but the Browns are trying to build a respectable team. If you want the foundation to build toward winning you'd better fill it with TALENT, and worry about all the other shit later.

As far as the one game samples in regard to the Browns not being able to hold a lead because some intangible situation. All well and good. The overall record vs. those two teams over the last 15 years - those ain't "intangible" indicators. That's two teams knowing how to draft and aquire talent - and one that doesn't. Period.


Which does nothing to change my assertion that there is some merit to team psyche contributing to said team's performance.

The percentage of talent vs. psyche isn't what I was debating when you quoted me, and it's not what I'm debating now. If you said "Talent is THE most important aspect of a team winning", I would say "There's merit to that."

BTW - The Ravens weren't even in the top 5 most talented teams in the NFL this year. They got a combination of hot at the right time, good matchups, and lucky. Were they infinitely more talented than the Browns? Yes. But most teams not named Buffalo or Jacksonville can say that.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:44 am

Really, again...get some players, win some games.[/quote]


I understand your viewpoint, but remember some of those Steelers and Ravens wins occurred when they had their QBs and other key players hurt. And some of those Ravens QBs weren't so hot, really. We still lost.

Remember the playoff game where Holcomb had the team up 33-17 vs. Pittsburgh, but the Browns still lost. Another game where one team immediately folded with just a touch of adversity and the other team, always confident, came back and won.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:54 am

[quote

The most talented teams compete for the Super Bowl every year - and again, as I stated, perhaps intangibles could be a difference between them.

The least talented teams NEVER compete for a Super Bowl - in any season, no matter how chalk full of intangibles they are. Which is to the point.

And you could also draw a pretty good correlation to "folding under pressure" and "not being that good."

So yeah, I "get it" - but the Browns are trying to build a respectable team. If you want the foundation to build toward winning you'd better fill it with TALENT, and worry about all the other shit later.

As far as the one game samples in regard to the Browns not being able to hold a lead because some intangible situation. All well and good. The overall record vs. those two teams over the last 15 years - those ain't "intangible" indicators. That's two teams knowing how to draft and aquire talent - and one that doesn't. Period.[/quote]


Very true and the other teams in the division have just killed the Browns in the draft. The Bengals are back up there due to good picks. Ravens and Steelers have done it for years (Ex: Why did Pitts. see the promise in Mike Wallace and made him a third round pick and Cleveland saw nothing in him?).

I think one of the most telling things in the 2013 draft was when Pittsburgh traded its third round pick next year with Cleveland to get a shot at safety Shamarko Thomas with the fourth round pick. Meanwhile, Lombardi passed on the 4th and 5th rounds thisyear, saying the draft wasn't all that great, while our division rivals jumped at opportunities in the later rounds, because they, unlike Lombardi, saw a lot of quality depth still on the board in the 4th and 5th rounds. We'll see who is right.

Personally, I think Shamarko Thomas is going to be a good player, even though he is short, he is very fast for the position.

If the Browns had participated in the 4th and 5th rounds, they could have gotten players like Safety Philip Thomas, who led the nation in interceptions and was first team all america, or BW Webb, the fine corner prospect from William and Mary, or Bacari Rambo from Georgia, who was first team all america in 2011.

Whether you like Tashaun Gipson or Leon McFadden or not, the Browns lack qualit ydepth in the secondary. These kinds of guys available in the 4th or 5th rounds would have provided valuable secondary depth for the Browns and challenged for starting positions. Philip Thomas, for example, has a real shot to start at safety for Washington.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:15 am

AttackOffense wrote:Really, again...get some players, win some games.



I understand your viewpoint, but remember some of those Steelers and Ravens wins occurred when they had their QBs and other key players hurt. And some of those Ravens QBs weren't so hot, really. We still lost.

Remember the playoff game where Holcomb had the team up 33-17 vs. Pittsburgh, but the Browns still lost. Another game where one team immediately folded with just a touch of adversity and the other team, always confident, came back and won.[/quote]

I thought I already made my point on individual games - in that it's wiser to take the whole - plus there's sooo much conjecture here. The Steelers "confidence" didn't make the comeback, their talent did. Northcut didn't make a play that Hines Ward would've. One's a rummy, one a HOFer.

I'm about done here. Good holy Christ, the DEARTH of talent here the last 15 years is almost without presidence. THAT's why they blow. No other reason. When they get some talent AND THEN guys start doing things that could be deemed intangibly detrimental, then we can pretend that it means something. Until them, blaming the trails of the Browns on things other than not having enough guys around that can PLAY is laughable.

And bringing up Kelly Holcomb - the fact there was a huge QB controversy between Kelly Holcomb and your overall number one franchise draft pick pretty much epitomizes what's gone on here.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby pod2dawg » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:13 pm

leadpipe wrote:
I'm about done here. Good holy Christ, the DEARTH of talent here the last 15 years is almost without presidence.


You need to delete "almost" from the above statement.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby General » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:02 am

Start planning now for the inevitable 1 year (or more) suspension. Gordon is a druggie; if he didn't have the physical traits and abilities that he possesses currently he would be hanging around the Hayden-Shaw neighborhood or some equivalent of it waiting for his own fatal OD/shooting or an incarceration. The Clowns will be starting over at both WR and QB again in 2014. Awesome.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:17 am

Yep, Lee, the terrific receiver for USC, likely will be available for the Browns when they draft in the top 10 in the draft again next year.

I hope you are enjoying Pensacola. Excellent beach et al.
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Re: Josh Gordon Suspended 2 Games?

Unread postby AttackOffense » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:21 am

pod2dawg wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
I'm about done here. Good holy Christ, the DEARTH of talent here the last 15 years is almost without presidence.


You need to delete "almost" from the above statement.


Browns haven't had a single GM capable of being called "good" at the draft.
Heckert was the best among the whole group going back to Lombardi, the Original, and I'd rate Tom average.

What's puzzling is that a team that desperately needs to add depth in some key spots passed on the 4th and 5th rounds in the draft while other teams fed at the trough. Lombardi thinks he'll use those two extra picks wisely next year. I'll be amazed if that happens.
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