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6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

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6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:09 pm

What a poetic moment during our current slide:

Ballpark Sinkhole Cancels Indians, Rangers BP in Texas

Pitchers: Corey Kluber - #28 RHP 3-4, 4.56 ERA VS Derek Holland - #45 LHP 5-2, 2.82 ERA

Wanted to start today's thread just so I could post that article. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby ClevelandFanInNewYork » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:15 pm

Maybe the sinkhole should have come after last night's game in front of the exit to our locker room.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:24 pm

If baseball had a Wonderlic, would Carlos Santana even be able to get the points for spelling his name correctly?
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby ClevelandFanInNewYork » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:29 pm

He is just Carlos being Manny....
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:15 pm

I don't want to jinx him or anything but Kluber has only allowed one ball hit out of the infield in the first four innings. He usually gets a lot of K's but tonight he's been a ground ball machine with no K's at all. He's averaging 9 pitches per inning.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:16 pm

They're on the verge of letting out a lot of frustration.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:25 pm

Lost in all of this is how Rick Manning called Drew Stubbs "a good offspeed hitter" earlier in the inning.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Tribe winning 4-0 and no Pabo............
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:31 pm

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Tribe winning 4-0 and no Pabo............


He's busy kicking his dog around the backyard.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby Pabo » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:40 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Tribe winning 4-0 and no Pabo............


He's busy kicking his dog around the backyard.


Funny...I'm here. I don't want to jinx it. There is still plenty of time for the Rangers to blow us out.
Bottom 4th: Cleveland
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- A. Cabrera doubled to deep left
- N. Swisher doubled to center, A. Cabrera scored
- J. Giambi doubled to deep right center, N. Swisher to third, N. Swisher out at home
- J. Giambi caught stealing, catcher to third

1 run, 3 hits, 0 errors
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:41 pm

I'm not really supposed to like "productive outs" as a sabrist, but I'm very happy with that Gomes at bat. Every run is magnified in this park.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:43 pm

Aaaaannnnnnd that's why. Aviles with a horrible at bat.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby ClevelandFanInNewYork » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:45 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Aaaaannnnnnd that's why. Aviles with a horrible at bat.


It looked like that ball was over his head!
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:50 pm

ClevelandFanInNewYork wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Aaaaannnnnnd that's why. Aviles with a horrible at bat.


It looked like that ball was over his head!


A 2-1 pitch too. Trying to do too much.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:55 pm

Nothing quite like trying to tag from 2B on a fly ball to LF in a 4-0 game.

Great throw. Great pick.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby ClevelandFanInNewYork » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:56 pm

Wow was that a sweet DP on that line out / throw out at third! Brantley with an alert play and a great throw.
Last edited by ClevelandFanInNewYork on Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:57 pm

Awesome job by Kluber covering 1B. Really heads up work there. Far too often pitchers stand there dumbfounded and clueless.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:00 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Tribe winning 4-0 and no Pabo............


He's busy kicking his dog around the backyard.



:thumb up:
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:07 pm

This is a must win if there is such a thing in June.
Bring the NHL to C-Town.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby bookelly » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:16 pm

Everytime they talk about Kluber they jinx him.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby tastybrownies » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:20 pm

I've been more impressed with Kluber as of late. And it's great to see anyone do well after seeing SUCK with guys such as Hagadone (still don't know why he is at the major league level at all), Cody Allen, Rich Hill.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby Pabo » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:27 pm

tastybrownies wrote:I've been more impressed with Kluber as of late. And it's great to see anyone do well after seeing SUCK with guys such as Hagadone (still don't know why he is at the major league level at all), Cody Allen, Rich Hill.


The reason Hagadone is still here is very simple: They don't have anyone better in the entire organization.
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- A. Cabrera doubled to deep left
- N. Swisher doubled to center, A. Cabrera scored
- J. Giambi doubled to deep right center, N. Swisher to third, N. Swisher out at home
- J. Giambi caught stealing, catcher to third

1 run, 3 hits, 0 errors
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby ClevelandFanInNewYork » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:31 pm

Pabo wrote:
tastybrownies wrote:I've been more impressed with Kluber as of late. And it's great to see anyone do well after seeing SUCK with guys such as Hagadone (still don't know why he is at the major league level at all), Cody Allen, Rich Hill.


The reason Hagadone is still here is very simple: They don't have anyone better in the entire organization.


Kinda sucks when you realize that we really don't have a better option.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby Pabo » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:32 pm

Johnny Mac at third. God, I hope no one hits one down there.
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- A. Cabrera doubled to deep left
- N. Swisher doubled to center, A. Cabrera scored
- J. Giambi doubled to deep right center, N. Swisher to third, N. Swisher out at home
- J. Giambi caught stealing, catcher to third

1 run, 3 hits, 0 errors
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm

tastybrownies wrote:I've been more impressed with Kluber as of late.


Kluber's advanced stats indicated serious improvement on the horizon. Maybe they made an adjustment to give him some more tilt and make it easier to work down in the zone. If he can keep inducing ground balls at a high rate, thus limiting home runs, he'll be in great shape the rest of the way.

Ground ball guys who can K 20+% of hitters are a rare breed.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby ClevelandFanInNewYork » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm

Alright...let's turn two here and take it to the 9th!
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby ClevelandFanInNewYork » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:39 pm

Nice effort by Stubbs on that 64 degree wedge shot by Murphy.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:41 pm

What a phenomenal effort from Corey Kluber tonight. He was good in New York except for that one inning that killed him, but a great bounceback start. Simply brilliant tonight. Showed a good changeup, really buried that cutter/slider in to LHB. Good life on the fastball. Really impressive.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby ClevelandFanInNewYork » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:44 pm

Kluber at 103....who pitches the 9th?
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby Pabo » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:45 pm

skatingtripods wrote:What a phenomenal effort from Corey Kluber tonight. He was good in New York except for that one inning that killed him, but a great bounceback start. Simply brilliant tonight. Showed a good changeup, really buried that cutter/slider in to LHB. Good life on the fastball. Really impressive.


Not only that, but did you notice how he didn't even appear to be sweating at all? In 91º heat! Somehow that makes pitchers easier to watch. I still have nightmares about watching sweat dripping off the bill of Carmona's hat while he's walking the bases loaded in the first inning of an April game at Minnesota.
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- N. Swisher doubled to center, A. Cabrera scored
- J. Giambi doubled to deep right center, N. Swisher to third, N. Swisher out at home
- J. Giambi caught stealing, catcher to third

1 run, 3 hits, 0 errors
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby ClevelandFanInNewYork » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:48 pm

Just noticed that every starter got a hit tonight.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:54 pm

ClevelandFanInNewYork wrote:Kluber at 103....who pitches the 9th?


Coming back from commercial, so it's an easy answer, but Joe Smith. He was already throwing and hasn't pitched in a while.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby ClevelandFanInNewYork » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:00 pm

Do we have to go to My Cousin Vinnie?
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby tastybrownies » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:05 pm

THE INDIANS WIN IT!!!
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby bookelly » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:06 pm

Finally got off the snide.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:12 pm

Yay Tribe wins! Now I have to make sure I remember to start tomorrow's thread...
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby RickNashEquilibrium » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:25 am

skatingtripods wrote:Kluber's advanced stats indicated serious improvement on the horizon. Maybe they made an adjustment to give him some more tilt and make it easier to work down in the zone. If he can keep inducing ground balls at a high rate, thus limiting home runs, he'll be in great shape the rest of the way.

Ground ball guys who can K 20+% of hitters are a rare breed.


If he keeps improving upon the control of that nasty slider he was chucking last night, we might have found something.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby bookelly » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:53 am

RickNashEquilibrium wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:Kluber's advanced stats indicated serious improvement on the horizon. Maybe they made an adjustment to give him some more tilt and make it easier to work down in the zone. If he can keep inducing ground balls at a high rate, thus limiting home runs, he'll be in great shape the rest of the way.

Ground ball guys who can K 20+% of hitters are a rare breed.


If he keeps improving upon the control of that nasty slider he was chucking last night, we might have found something.


It might be part of Yan's catching, but that ump was calling a pretty low strike last night. For both teams. Though Kluber really was throwing some sick breaking shit.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:58 am

Kluber gets a lot of love from Carson Cistulli over at Fangraphs, like here, here, and here. Eno Sarris of Fangraphs and Rotoworld was also tweeting about him last night.

He's a really interesting sabermetric case, mostly because of a high BABIP and pretty hefty HR rate. But he has a BB/9 under 2, a K/9 of almost 9, and the 9th-lowest rate of contact in the strike zone by the Fangraphs metrics (26th by PITCHf/x data). Yet his career ERA is 4.76. But his FIP is 3.87 and his xFIP is 3.60. His SIERA is 3.54. All of the advanced metrics say he's a very quality pitcher. The results haven't translated just yet.

He has periodic command issues that plague him for entire innings at a time where things snowball. If he can start limiting those, he'll be in great shape. I'm trying to track down his career stats on runs against. I don't think he's had very many innings where he has only given up one run. Usually, he runs into multi-run innings.

A little bit of a small sample size issue too, since he's thrown just 124.1 innings over parts of three seasons. But, it would appear that he's going to continue to improve and there's always room for a guy who doesn't walk people, misses bats, and gets ground balls. It's just a matter of consistency at this point.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby bookelly » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:29 am

skatingtripods wrote:Kluber gets a lot of love from Carson Cistulli over at Fangraphs, like here, here, and here. Eno Sarris of Fangraphs and Rotoworld was also tweeting about him last night.

He's a really interesting sabermetric case, mostly because of a high BABIP and pretty hefty HR rate. But he has a BB/9 under 2, a K/9 of almost 9, and the 9th-lowest rate of contact in the strike zone by the Fangraphs metrics (26th by PITCHf/x data). Yet his career ERA is 4.76. But his FIP is 3.87 and his xFIP is 3.60. His SIERA is 3.54. All of the advanced metrics say he's a very quality pitcher. The results haven't translated just yet.

He has periodic command issues that plague him for entire innings at a time where things snowball. If he can start limiting those, he'll be in great shape. I'm trying to track down his career stats on runs against. I don't think he's had very many innings where he has only given up one run. Usually, he runs into multi-run innings.

A little bit of a small sample size issue too, since he's thrown just 124.1 innings over parts of three seasons. But, it would appear that he's going to continue to improve and there's always room for a guy who doesn't walk people, misses bats, and gets ground balls. It's just a matter of consistency at this point.


What I saw last night was a guy who only lost focus when he got squeezed (inside and outside) on those two lead-off walks. At one point as he walked two guys in a row (7th?), Yan came out and calmed him down. But he was really locked-in for about 97% of his batters faced.

Guy had "Eye of the Tiger." Justin was giving him props/grief for it when he came out in the 8th. Only then did Kluber allowed himself to finally relax and crack a smile. All game long he looked like a pitcher who simply refused to lose.

/And he got some pretty good defense too. One play, as you mentioned, where he alertly covered first on a ground ball hit into the teeth of the shift. And the Brantley DP obviously.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:38 am

bookelly wrote:What I saw last night was a guy who only lost focus when he got squeezed (inside and outside) on those two lead-off walks. At one point as he walked two guys in a row (7th?), Yan came out and calmed him down. But he was really locked-in for about 97% of his batters faced.


Gotta give him credit in the Andrus at bat. He came back from 3-0 and Andrus fouled off a good 3-2 pitch before walking on the seventh pitch. That's the sign of a pitcher who is growing up.

/And he got some pretty good defense too. One play, as you mentioned, where he alertly covered first on a ground ball hit into the teeth of the shift. And the Brantley DP obviously.


That DP upped the Tribe's win expectancy by 12% last night. Biggest play of the entire ballgame.

It's interesting that Kluber was so effective and only had four swings and misses. He had 13 in his last start against the Yankees and 14 in that start against Boston. He had really good stuff in that long rain delay game against Tampa too. That strange routine affected him (and Matt Moore) in his next start. We could very easily be talking about a pitcher with six straight quality starts and a 37/6 K/BB ratio in that span.
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby RickNashEquilibrium » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:08 pm

skatingtripods wrote:It's interesting that Kluber was so effective and only had four swings and misses. He had 13 in his last start against the Yankees and 14 in that start against Boston. He had really good stuff in that long rain delay game against Tampa too. That strange routine affected him (and Matt Moore) in his next start. We could very easily be talking about a pitcher with six straight quality starts and a 37/6 K/BB ratio in that span.


This might be overly simplifying things a bit - but if his trend of high KK and GBO are sustainable that certainly has to imply, or at the very least correlate to a pitcher with unbelievable command of the strike zone yes? A great righty who comes to mind is Adam Wainwright, though Kluber has a higher BB/9 ratio and a much higher BABIP. If those normalize out is Wainwright a legitimate comparable?
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Re: 6-11-13: Tribe @ Rangers ~ Sinkhole Edition

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:58 pm

Shameless plug, but I wrote about Kluber for the front page: http://www.theclevelandfan.com/clevelan ... rey-kluber

Regarding a Wainwright comp....I don't see it. I don't think he'll ever have Wainwright's HR rate and I don't think he'll be an innings horse like Waino. Kluber's not going to be a GB pitcher to the rate that Wainwright induces GBs either. I'd be curious to see how Wainwright would do in the AL, but I think it'd still be noticeably better than Kluber.

Kluber's GB rate at 44% is league average.

You'd be hard pressed to find a comp for Kluber that didn't really start pitching regularly in the bigs until 27 with similar numbers. Josh Beckett could be in the ballpark as a comp with a 3.94 ERA, 3.74 FIP, 3.66 xFIP, 8.34 K/9 and 2.74 BB/9. 43% GB rate. But Beckett was in the Show at 21. Maybe Ben Sheets, but he, too, was in the Show by 22.
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