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FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu May 30, 2013 9:28 pm

They (especially the coaching staff) are only lame duck if the new owner gets handed a "helper" by the NFL and defers all decisions to him which include insisting on bringing in all their "own" guys.

Not at all saying that Shurmur, Heckert, and especially Holmgren didn't need shown the door, but they never had a shot right from the beginning. Every rumor about who Haslam was going to bring in came true months later, which meant the people in power were replaced before Jimmy even bought the team.

They were the "Major League" Indians, except, you know, without the winning.

The owner I want actually considers everything on its own merit before making decisions.

If the next guy comes in and cleans house for the sake of cleaning house, then this circle will never end.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby Spin » Fri May 31, 2013 11:24 am

Hikohadon wrote:Jimmy's running the show just the same way Lerner did - take (almost sight unseen) the schmoe the NFL is pushing on you and give him de facto control over the organization while you're off attending to more pressing matters.


Agreed. I was with Jimmy until he hired Banner, and Banner started micromanaging everything, making everyone below him puppet boys. I have no faith in Joe Banner. And not sold on Chud either.

I'm all for pressing the RESET button one more time,
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:10 pm

Hikohadon wrote:They (especially the coaching staff) are only lame duck if the new owner gets handed a "helper" by the NFL and defers all decisions to him which include insisting on bringing in all their "own" guys.

Not at all saying that Shurmur, Heckert, and especially Holmgren didn't need shown the door, but they never had a shot right from the beginning. Every rumor about who Haslam was going to bring in came true months later, which meant the people in power were replaced before Jimmy even bought the team.

They were the "Major League" Indians, except, you know, without the winning.

The owner I want actually considers everything on its own merit before making decisions.

If the next guy comes in and cleans house for the sake of cleaning house, then this circle will never end.



The Eagles offense will make a HUGE statement about Shurmur as a coach. IDK if he was really that dull or if he had directive to run the show with training wheels.

What is clear in the post season haze are these three things:

- Holmgren was a total and complete fraud in all facits of his job. The Browns were more rudderless than we knew at the top.

- The players didn't quit on Shurmur on the field but they never fully bought in. Enough statements have come out about the players' reactions to Chud and new the staff.

- The Browns' systems on O and D were antiquated. IDK the reasons for this exactly but I have hypotheses.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby AttackOffense » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:34 am

I think the Browns coaching staff is vastly improved. I liked Jauron, though, but I thought Shurmer was terrible, especially trying to force-feed Weeden in a way that played to his weaknesses instead of his strengths. He should much better now that he is back in the shotgun and with a more vertical offense to work with. It won't surprise me if Weeden takes a nice step forward this season. Then, if Weeden is successful, I'll be anxious to see what Lombardi does with those all draft picks next year and if he still pursues a #1 QB.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:15 am

AttackOffense wrote:I think the Browns coaching staff is vastly improved. I liked Jauron, though, but I thought Shurmer was terrible, especially trying to force-feed Weeden in a way that played to his weaknesses instead of his strengths. He should much better now that he is back in the shotgun and with a more vertical offense to work with. It won't surprise me if Weeden takes a nice step forward this season. Then, if Weeden is successful, I'll be anxious to see what Lombardi does with those all draft picks next year and if he still pursues a #1 QB.



I think what Philly does on O this season will be fascinating as far as evaluating Paddy.

I really don't know if he was forced to run a training wheels offense becasue H&H wanted player development > wins or if he was really that obtuse.

Agree the O gows as the Ginger goes.

But be very careful on this borad giving Weeds a faor shake. Apparently that is criminal. He was a bust as of 4/16/12. ;-)
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby AttackOffense » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:26 am

Weeden was horrific last season. But I just shook my head and was puzzled, thinking back to the guy who was so good in some big games against teams like Stanford and Oklahoma. He was so confident as a college QB, the opposite as a first year pro QB. But that's more the norm than the exception and I figure that the success of Griffin and Luck last year skewed our normal views of expectations for first year QBs.

Speaking of Philly, I, too, am anxious to see what the new offense looks like with Shurmur having a hand in that. We really have no idea what to expect from all of that.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:06 pm

If the Jags had taken Weeden and he'd had the kind of year last year that he did have here, the board would rightfully be calling him a joke and a bust. Some just said it in real time, immediately.

Now, as one who said that, I also believe that the very best Weeden can and will ever be as an NFL QB will be in this offensive system under this coordinator. And I'd absolutely live what whatever that is this season, all season.

My biggest issue is that I see his highest side as serviceable, not elite, not a game changer, not enough of a difference maker to get a team beyond mediocre with his game, head or leadership skills.

I truly believe he'll be better than he was in that soup sandwich of a system he played in last season. But at the end of the day that's still not going to be good enough.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:25 pm

AttackOffense wrote:Weeden was horrific last season. But I just shook my head and was puzzled, thinking back to the guy who was so good in some big games against teams like Stanford and Oklahoma. He was so confident as a college QB, the opposite as a first year pro QB. But that's more the norm than the exception and I figure that the success of Griffin and Luck last year skewed our normal views of expectations for first year QBs.

Speaking of Philly, I, too, am anxious to see what the new offense looks like with Shurmur having a hand in that. We really have no idea what to expect from all of that.



At times he made horrific plays.

At times he made very good plays.

A rookie QB in surrounded by young players.

to charaterize his overall level of play as horrific?

Can't see it.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby bac5665 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:34 pm

jb wrote:
AttackOffense wrote:Weeden was horrific last season. But I just shook my head and was puzzled, thinking back to the guy who was so good in some big games against teams like Stanford and Oklahoma. He was so confident as a college QB, the opposite as a first year pro QB. But that's more the norm than the exception and I figure that the success of Griffin and Luck last year skewed our normal views of expectations for first year QBs.

Speaking of Philly, I, too, am anxious to see what the new offense looks like with Shurmur having a hand in that. We really have no idea what to expect from all of that.



At times he made horrific plays.

At times he made very good plays.

A rookie QB in surrounded by young players.

to charaterize his overall level of play as horrific?

Can't see it.


Exactly.

If we believe that Shurmur was really that bad last year, evaluating last year as anything other than a lost year seems to me to be foolish.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:01 pm

peeker643 wrote:If the Jags had taken Weeden and he'd had the kind of year last year that he did have here, the board would rightfully be calling him a joke and a bust. Some just said it in real time, immediately.




Some wrote it before he took a rookie camp ota snap & never acknowledged any good data points where he made plays we've only seen in the Zombie Browns Era by "good" DA. But you know, 220, 225, whatever it takes.

If he were a Jag most'd say something akin to showed flashes both ways, probably doesn't make it long-term based on teh arc of what we say but the jury is still out, partocularly with mitigating circumstances. This year will tell the story and approach it with an open mind.

Kinda like most are doing now.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby AttackOffense » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:53 pm

peeker643 wrote:If the Jags had taken Weeden and he'd had the kind of year last year that he did have here, the board would rightfully be calling him a joke and a bust. Some just said it in real time, immediately.

Now, as one who said that, I also believe that the very best Weeden can and will ever be as an NFL QB will be in this offensive system under this coordinator. And I'd absolutely live what whatever that is this season, all season.

My biggest issue is that I see his highest side as serviceable, not elite, not a game changer, not enough of a difference maker to get a team beyond mediocre with his game, head or leadership skills.

I truly believe he'll be better than he was in that soup sandwich of a system he played in last season. But at the end of the day that's still not going to be good enough.


Some really interesting observations in your post. I wonder how many people out there think like me that gee, Weeden, has such a cannon arm, can he be coached up to see the field better and excel at decision-making, get rid of the ball quicker, and throw more accurately downfield in the pros. Again, I saw him make a lot of great long throws in college, but I guess in the pros and the speed of the game you really need to perfectly pinpoint passes. I'm pleased to read that Weeden is working hard to get rid of the ball faster. He had so many passes knocked down last year, it drove me crazy.

Can Weeden become an elite QB? My view is closer to yours, I seem him as NFL starter average or slightly above average at some point, but not much more than that. Sadly, as we all know, Weeden is in his second year and Father Time is already working against him. If he was 23 with many years to develop and get a lot of better, we all might be more positive about the situation. Let's hope we can get a few good years out of him and maybe make the playoffs. But he's under a lot of pressure this year as Lombardi watches closely and then looks at Teddy Bridgewater and other QBs on that 2014 draft board.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:04 pm

AttackOffense wrote:
peeker643 wrote:If the Jags had taken Weeden and he'd had the kind of year last year that he did have here, the board would rightfully be calling him a joke and a bust. Some just said it in real time, immediately.

Now, as one who said that, I also believe that the very best Weeden can and will ever be as an NFL QB will be in this offensive system under this coordinator. And I'd absolutely live what whatever that is this season, all season.

My biggest issue is that I see his highest side as serviceable, not elite, not a game changer, not enough of a difference maker to get a team beyond mediocre with his game, head or leadership skills.

I truly believe he'll be better than he was in that soup sandwich of a system he played in last season. But at the end of the day that's still not going to be good enough.


Some really interesting observations in your post. I wonder how many people out there think like me that gee, Weeden, has such a cannon arm, can he be coached up to see the field better and excel at decision-making, get rid of the ball quicker, and throw more accurately downfield in the pros. Again, I saw him make a lot of great long throws in college, but I guess in the pros and the speed of the game you really need to perfectly pinpoint passes. I'm pleased to read that Weeden is working hard to get rid of the ball faster. He had so many passes knocked down last year, it drove me crazy.

Can Weeden become an elite QB? My view is closer to yours, I seem him as NFL starter average or slightly above average at some point, but not much more than that. Sadly, as we all know, Weeden is in his second year and Father Time is already working against him. If he was 23 with many years to develop and get a lot of better, we all might be more positive about the situation. Let's hope we can get a few good years out of him and maybe make the playoffs. But he's under a lot of pressure this year as Lombardi watches closely and then looks at Teddy Bridgewater and other QBs on that 2014 draft board.



My $ 0.02 - I think it is utterly impossible to arc Weeds right now. He could be anything from bust to Flacco at this point. I think the key is to have an open mind. A big caveat to me is that the whole age thing is a crock to me. Let's say for S&G Weeds takes 3 full seasons to peak. That makes him, what, 33? He's got no wheels in the first place. Good passers can play until they're 40. When was the last time we had a solid, good, QB in place for 7 complete seasons?

I ask in complete sincereity; was it literally Otto Graham?

BK was 85 - 93 in his time but missed alsmot all of 88 and was "meh" near the end. IDK he had 7 quality seasons.

Sipe went from what, 76 - 82? that's 7.

the rest were short term band aids or dog food.

In the garnd scheme I'd take it and groom the next guy in about 3 - 4 years. The key isn't how long Weeds can be good it's IF he can be good at all. I'mopen minded and honestly don't know.

If you held a Glock sideways at me here's my odds on scale:

- Bust gone after this season: 50%
- "Meh" and starts as serviceable for 2 - 3 seasons & biounces around the NFl for 5 more years as a spot starter/backup: 20%
- Very good; good enough to win a title in the right system and team (top 15 but not top 5 elite): 25%
- Elite: 5%
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:11 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:If the Jags had taken Weeden and he'd had the kind of year last year that he did have here, the board would rightfully be calling him a joke and a bust. Some just said it in real time, immediately.



Some wrote it before he took a rookie camp ota snap & never acknowledged any good data points where he made plays we've only seen in the Zombie Browns Era by "good" DA. But you know, 220, 225, whatever it takes.

Well, some guys hugged other guys when Brady Quinn was selected. ;-) ;) :wink:

And some guys were fine with Weeden ONLY after the Browns took him. Which is why it must be difficult to understand how people who wanted no part of Weeden pre-draft or that night didn't like the pick afterward either.

So yeah, 220/221.


If he were a Jag most'd say something akin to showed flashes both ways, probably doesn't make it long-term based on teh arc of what we say but the jury is still out, partocularly with mitigating circumstances. This year will tell the story and approach it with an open mind.

If you didn't get that from what I wrote above then let me know what language works best for ya.

Terrible, desperate, wasted, limited upside pick when it was made. Bad fit, wrong guy, the whole 9 yards of bad choice. Let us pray for serviceable and be done with it. :cheers:


Kinda like most are doing now.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:17 pm

jb wrote: Good passers can play until they're 40. When was the last time we had a solid, good, QB in place for 7 complete seasons?

.....

- Bust gone after this season: 50%
- "Meh" and starts as serviceable for 2 - 3 seasons & biounces around the NFl for 5 more years as a spot starter/backup: 20%
- Very good; good enough to win a title in the right system and team (top 15 but not top 5 elite): 25%
- Elite: 5%


Can I ask what "good passers" are playing right now at 40?

Not "good passers" who played at 40 ten or twenty or forty years ago, but now. I can think of a few 'Great' ones who are in mid to late 30's but I'm not coming up with too many good ones in this era who are 40.

And of course age isn't an issue. It's a just a number.

Like completion percentage and TD/INT ratio.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:33 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote: Good passers can play until they're 40. When was the last time we had a solid, good, QB in place for 7 complete seasons?

.....

- Bust gone after this season: 50%
- "Meh" and starts as serviceable for 2 - 3 seasons & biounces around the NFl for 5 more years as a spot starter/backup: 20%
- Very good; good enough to win a title in the right system and team (top 15 but not top 5 elite): 25%
- Elite: 5%


Can I ask what "good passers" are playing right now at 40?

Not "good passers" who played at 40 ten or twenty or forty years ago, but now. I can think of a few 'Great' ones who are in mid to late 30's but I'm not coming up with too many good ones in this era who are 40.

And of course age isn't an issue. It's a just a number.

Like completion percentage and TD/INT ratio.



Isn't some of career longevity a matter of hits and beatings taken?

Not gonna get into a thread about the dif between 38, 39 and 40.

I'm not Hiko.

Point is Weeds' gane, to the extent he may or may not have one, IDK (unlike you who are certain he doesn't, won't, ndn never will and have been since 4/26/12 without any sort of open mind) isn't predicated by the things that deteriorate with age. He's not gonna fall off the ledge at age 35.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:52 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote: Good passers can play until they're 40. When was the last time we had a solid, good, QB in place for 7 complete seasons?

.....

- Bust gone after this season: 50%
- "Meh" and starts as serviceable for 2 - 3 seasons & biounces around the NFl for 5 more years as a spot starter/backup: 20%
- Very good; good enough to win a title in the right system and team (top 15 but not top 5 elite): 25%
- Elite: 5%


Can I ask what "good passers" are playing right now at 40?

Not "good passers" who played at 40 ten or twenty or forty years ago, but now. I can think of a few 'Great' ones who are in mid to late 30's but I'm not coming up with too many good ones in this era who are 40.

And of course age isn't an issue. It's a just a number.

Like completion percentage and TD/INT ratio.



Isn't some of career longevity a matter of hits and beatings taken?

Not gonna get into a thread about the dif between 38, 39 and 40.

I'm not Hiko.

Point is Weeds' gane, to the extent he may or may not have one, IDK (unlike you who are certain he doesn't, won't, ndn never will and have been since 4/26/12 without any sort of open mind) isn't predicated by the things that deteriorate with age. He's not gonna fall off the ledge at age 35.


Of course you won't. It's just a number, albeit one you chose to make some rounded point of some sort. Never mind asking you to dissect good v. great or actually name the 38,39 and 40 yr olds in the NFL that fall into either of those buckets.

And I agree with you in that he will not fall off a ledge at 35. You can probably figure out why.

I've also said multiple times in this thread and another that the very best Weeds will be the Weeds under Norv (with Gordon, Little, Bess, Nelson, TRich in power run game). Serviceable. That's what I've got, that's what Ive said and yes, I understand that like with the numbers and ages and good v. great thing that that doesn't fit your agenda or argument.

But I'm not sure there's much I can do about that when you put your head and wanna get where you're going.

It was a bad choice then, bad option today. But it's going to be as good as it ever will be now. And that's fine. But when the credits roll there ain't no Hangover Vegas Picture funny stuff. That's all there is.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:07 pm

Peeker, how is saying I'm keeping an open mind to anything between a continuum of bust of very good but not elite QB an agenda or even a predtermined position?

Honest to Pete Prisco, IDK what Weeds can do.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:13 pm

jb wrote:Peeker, how is saying I'm keeping an open mind to anything between a continuum of bust of very good but not elite QB an agenda or even a predtermined position?

Honest to Pete Prisco, IDK what Weeds can do.


::doh::


Is it unlike me being accused of being closed minded and a hater when I say I expect Weeden to be serviceable and enjoy his best year(s) under Norv?? :group:
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:13 pm

jb wrote:Isn't some of career longevity a matter of hits and beatings taken?

Not gonna get into a thread about the dif between 38, 39 and 40.

I'm not Hiko.

Point is Weeds' gane, to the extent he may or may not have one, IDK (unlike you who are certain he doesn't, won't, ndn never will and have been since 4/26/12 without any sort of open mind) isn't predicated by the things that deteriorate with age. He's not gonna fall off the ledge at age 35.


You purposely engage in an offseason QB discussion which has about as much chance of going anywhere as the Titanic and yet see fit to disparage me?

Harumph.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:14 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Peeker, how is saying I'm keeping an open mind to anything between a continuum of bust of very good but not elite QB an agenda or even a predtermined position?

Honest to Pete Prisco, IDK what Weeds can do.



Is it unlike me being accused of being closed minded and a hater when I say I expect Weeden to be serviceable and enjoy his best year(s) under Norv??



Well, that's such a left handed compliment only Snake SDtabler and Rick Leach would say "Thanks!".
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:19 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Peeker, how is saying I'm keeping an open mind to anything between a continuum of bust of very good but not elite QB an agenda or even a predtermined position?

Honest to Pete Prisco, IDK what Weeds can do.



Is it unlike me being accused of being closed minded and a hater when I say I expect Weeden to be serviceable and enjoy his best year(s) under Norv??



Well, that's such a left handed compliment only Snake SDtabler and Rick Leach would say "Thanks!".



Sorry. I see greatness in his future.

Good?

Sweet. :thumb up: :thumb up:

Jesus. I said he can be serviceable. Hopefully in a few short years he can join the pantheon of other good QBs who are ~ 40.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:33 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Peeker, how is saying I'm keeping an open mind to anything between a continuum of bust of very good but not elite QB an agenda or even a predtermined position?

Honest to Pete Prisco, IDK what Weeds can do.



Is it unlike me being accused of being closed minded and a hater when I say I expect Weeden to be serviceable and enjoy his best year(s) under Norv??



Well, that's such a left handed compliment only Snake SDtabler and Rick Leach would say "Thanks!".



Sorry. I see greatness in his future.

Good?

Sweet. :thumb up: :thumb up:

Jesus. I said he can be serviceable. Hopefully in a few short years he can join the pantheon of other good QBs who are ~ 40.



How about IDK? He was a rookie last season whose arc doesn't inspire one to see greatness but this year will tell the tale?

Now don't make me get angry like a 42 year old Warren Moon at his wife. ;-)
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:35 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Isn't some of career longevity a matter of hits and beatings taken?

Not gonna get into a thread about the dif between 38, 39 and 40.

I'm not Hiko.

Point is Weeds' gane, to the extent he may or may not have one, IDK (unlike you who are certain he doesn't, won't, ndn never will and have been since 4/26/12 without any sort of open mind) isn't predicated by the things that deteriorate with age. He's not gonna fall off the ledge at age 35.


You purposely engage in an offseason QB discussion which has about as much chance of going anywhere as the Titanic and yet see fit to disparage me?

Harumph.



Well, you probably would get into a debate over whether 38 or 40 is a huge non-arbitrary line.... :hide:
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:42 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Isn't some of career longevity a matter of hits and beatings taken?

Not gonna get into a thread about the dif between 38, 39 and 40.

I'm not Hiko.

Point is Weeds' gane, to the extent he may or may not have one, IDK (unlike you who are certain he doesn't, won't, ndn never will and have been since 4/26/12 without any sort of open mind) isn't predicated by the things that deteriorate with age. He's not gonna fall off the ledge at age 35.


You purposely engage in an offseason QB discussion which has about as much chance of going anywhere as the Titanic and yet see fit to disparage me?

Harumph.



Well, you probably would get into a debate over whether 38 or 40 is a huge non-arbitrary line.... :hide:


I'm not even mentioning his name until August since it's a useless and horribly abused topic. The guy's just not interesting enough right now for me to bother having an opinion one way or the other, and no amount of reports from OTA's will change that.

And his age is the least interesting thing about him.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby AttackOffense » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:42 pm

In the garnd scheme I'd take it and groom the next guy in about 3 - 4 years. The key isn't how long Weeds can be good it's IF he can be good at all. I'mopen minded and honestly don't know.

If you held a Glock sideways at me here's my odds on scale:

- Bust gone after this season: 50%
- "Meh" and starts as serviceable for 2 - 3 seasons & biounces around the NFl for 5 more years as a spot starter/backup: 20%
- Very good; good enough to win a title in the right system and team (top 15 but not top 5 elite): 25%
- Elite: 5%[/quote]

Chud and Norv have to be enjoying themselves in a bizarre way knowing the have the challenge of trying to convert Weeden from an ugly ducking into a fairy princess -- reminded me of Sandra Bullock going from dorkly FBI agent to Miss America candidate in Miss Congeniality!
Last edited by AttackOffense on Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:45 pm

AttackOffense wrote:My $ 0.02 - I think it is utterly impossible to arc Weeds right now. He could be anything from bust to Flacco at this point. I think the key is to have an open mind. A big caveat to me is that the whole age thing is a crock to me. Let's say for S&G Weeds takes 3 full seasons to peak. That makes him, what, 33? He's got no wheels in the first place. Good passers can play until they're 40. When was the last time we had a solid, good, QB in place for 7 complete seasons?

I ask in complete sincereity; was it literally Otto Graham?

BK was 85 - 93 in his time but missed alsmot all of 88 and was "meh" near the end. IDK he had 7 quality seasons.

Sipe went from what, 76 - 82? that's 7.

the rest were short term band aids or dog food.

In the garnd scheme I'd take it and groom the next guy in about 3 - 4 years. The key isn't how long Weeds can be good it's IF he can be good at all. I'mopen minded and honestly don't know.

If you held a Glock sideways at me here's my odds on scale:

- Bust gone after this season: 50%
- "Meh" and starts as serviceable for 2 - 3 seasons & biounces around the NFl for 5 more years as a spot starter/backup: 20%
- Very good; good enough to win a title in the right system and team (top 15 but not top 5 elite): 25%
- Elite: 5%


Chud and Norv have to be enjoying themselves in a bizarre way knowing they have this big challenge of making converting Weeden from an ugly ducking into a fairy princess -- reminded of Sandra Bullock going from dorkly FBI agent to Miss America candidate in Miss Congeniality![/quote]


Replace sandra with Jessica Chastin and I think you have something here.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:46 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Isn't some of career longevity a matter of hits and beatings taken?

Not gonna get into a thread about the dif between 38, 39 and 40.

I'm not Hiko.

Point is Weeds' gane, to the extent he may or may not have one, IDK (unlike you who are certain he doesn't, won't, ndn never will and have been since 4/26/12 without any sort of open mind) isn't predicated by the things that deteriorate with age. He's not gonna fall off the ledge at age 35.


You purposely engage in an offseason QB discussion which has about as much chance of going anywhere as the Titanic and yet see fit to disparage me?

Harumph.



Well, you probably would get into a debate over whether 38 or 40 is a huge non-arbitrary line.... :hide:



He'd probably name some of those good/not great 38-40 yr olds too. Or he wouldn't pull something nebulous out of his ass and then complain about peple asking about it. :nanner:

"...in addition to the number of girls in the Niagara Falls area..."
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby AttackOffense » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:47 pm

Love it!
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:53 pm

Great- had to google that chick from here at work.

She's too good looking for the Weeden analogy and she ain't that good looking.

If they just turn him from Carrot Top to Molly Ringwald I'll be thrilled.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:56 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Isn't some of career longevity a matter of hits and beatings taken?

Not gonna get into a thread about the dif between 38, 39 and 40.

I'm not Hiko.

Point is Weeds' gane, to the extent he may or may not have one, IDK (unlike you who are certain he doesn't, won't, ndn never will and have been since 4/26/12 without any sort of open mind) isn't predicated by the things that deteriorate with age. He's not gonna fall off the ledge at age 35.


You purposely engage in an offseason QB discussion which has about as much chance of going anywhere as the Titanic and yet see fit to disparage me?

Harumph.



Well, you probably would get into a debate over whether 38 or 40 is a huge non-arbitrary line.... :hide:



He'd probably name some of those good/not great 38-40 yr olds too. Or he wouldn't pull something nebulous out of his ass and then complain about peple asking about it. :nanner:

"...in addition to the number of girls in the Niagara Falls area..."



Listen here, butt munch, just becasue we wre in a trough where their aren't QB's aren't in their upper 30's like we were a few seasons ago doesn't mean we won't be again when the entrenched Mannings (37 & 32), Brees (34), and Brady (35) are still playing at a high level pushing or even over 40. All are capable of playing at a high level until then like Favre if they aren't bored. they key is to first actually be good and entrenched and then be durable. Since Weeds lacks milage his real challenge is to actually be good first. i don't see age as a key variable.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby AttackOffense » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:57 pm

peeker643 wrote:Great- had to google that chick from here at work.

She's too good looking for the Weeden analogy and she ain't that good looking.

If they just turn him from Carrot Top to Molly Ringwald I'll be thrilled.


After this discussion, looking at Brandon Weeden will never be the same!
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:59 pm

peeker643 wrote:Great- had to google that chick from here at work.

She's too good looking for the Weeden analogy and she ain't that good looking.

If they just turn him from Carrot Top to Molly Ringwald I'll be thrilled.



Bridgewater. Stat.

Image
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby swerb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:59 pm

Image
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:02 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Isn't some of career longevity a matter of hits and beatings taken?

Not gonna get into a thread about the dif between 38, 39 and 40.

I'm not Hiko.

Point is Weeds' gane, to the extent he may or may not have one, IDK (unlike you who are certain he doesn't, won't, ndn never will and have been since 4/26/12 without any sort of open mind) isn't predicated by the things that deteriorate with age. He's not gonna fall off the ledge at age 35.


You purposely engage in an offseason QB discussion which has about as much chance of going anywhere as the Titanic and yet see fit to disparage me?

Harumph.



Well, you probably would get into a debate over whether 38 or 40 is a huge non-arbitrary line.... :hide:



He'd probably name some of those good/not great 38-40 yr olds too. Or he wouldn't pull something nebulous out of his ass and then complain about peple asking about it. :nanner:

"...in addition to the number of girls in the Niagara Falls area..."



Listen here, butt munch, just becasue we wre in a trough where their aren't QB's aren't in their upper 30's like we were a few seasons ago doesn't mean we won't be again when the entrenched Mannings (37 & 32), Brees (34), and Brady (35) are still playing at a high level pushing or even over 40. All are capable of playing at a high level until then like Favre if they aren't bored. they key is to first actually be good and entrenched and then be durable. Since Weeds lacks milage his real challenge is to actually be good first. i don't see age as a key variable.


Right. So what you're saying is there aren't any of what you were talking about.

But maybe, some day, possibly in a few years there might be . But only if they're still good (but not great), still healthy and not bored with all the money they made?

Got it. Thanks for the clarification. :salute:
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:05 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Great- had to google that chick from here at work.

She's too good looking for the Weeden analogy and she ain't that good looking.

If they just turn him from Carrot Top to Molly Ringwald I'll be thrilled.



Bridgewater. Stat.




That pic wasn't cool, dude. Not cool at all. Jumped right off the screen and attacked my face.

But yeah...if Weeds was a chick that'd be about right. I mean, there were times she wasn't hideous and that she was entertaining. But mostly, umm.... ughhh... :group:
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:05 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Isn't some of career longevity a matter of hits and beatings taken?

Not gonna get into a thread about the dif between 38, 39 and 40.

I'm not Hiko.

Point is Weeds' gane, to the extent he may or may not have one, IDK (unlike you who are certain he doesn't, won't, ndn never will and have been since 4/26/12 without any sort of open mind) isn't predicated by the things that deteriorate with age. He's not gonna fall off the ledge at age 35.


You purposely engage in an offseason QB discussion which has about as much chance of going anywhere as the Titanic and yet see fit to disparage me?

Harumph.



Well, you probably would get into a debate over whether 38 or 40 is a huge non-arbitrary line.... :hide:



He'd probably name some of those good/not great 38-40 yr olds too. Or he wouldn't pull something nebulous out of his ass and then complain about peple asking about it. :nanner:

"...in addition to the number of girls in the Niagara Falls area..."



Listen here, butt munch, just becasue we wre in a trough where their aren't QB's aren't in their upper 30's like we were a few seasons ago doesn't mean we won't be again when the entrenched Mannings (37 & 32), Brees (34), and Brady (35) are still playing at a high level pushing or even over 40. All are capable of playing at a high level until then like Favre if they aren't bored. they key is to first actually be good and entrenched and then be durable. Since Weeds lacks milage his real challenge is to actually be good first. i don't see age as a key variable.


Right. So what you're saying is there aren't any of what you were talking about.

But maybe, some day, possibly in a few years there might be . But only if they're still good (but not great), still healthy and not bored with all the money they made?

Got it. Thanks for the clarification. :salute:



I conclude Hiko is wiser than I.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:10 pm

jb wrote:I conclude Hiko is wiser than I.


Well, I can feel good that it wasn't me who turned this car down that road.

And you & Hiko? Pretty much a dead heat, really.

So you got that going for you...
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby pup » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:02 pm

Really. A giant fucking Molly Ringwald image. Followed by Proud to be an American Weeden.

What did my eyes do to deserve that kind of punishment?
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:57 pm

This is one ugly thread.

I'm just hoping for a new ownership group since I don't like Jimmay and Banner. How entertaining would it be to see Jimmay and Banner crash and burn and a new owner bring back Heckert. I am not saying Heckert was awesome (I do think he was good) but I would love to see him ignore and then fire the guy who just ignored and fired him last year.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby Govbarney » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:08 am

YahooFanChicago wrote:This is one ugly thread.

I'm just hoping for a new ownership group since I don't like Jimmay and Banner. How entertaining would it be to see Jimmay and Banner crash and burn and a new owner bring back Heckert. I am not saying Heckert was awesome (I do think he was good) but I would love to see him ignore and then fire the guy who just ignored and fired him last year.


Yes because its so "entertaining" to watch the Browns suck. I would think you would have had enough of that form of entertainment the past decade and a half.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby AttackOffense » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:24 am

Well, I understand your feelings about Joe Banner but I think a lot of Browns fans just want a little bit of stability for a change. But as you point out, with Haslam under investigation et al, that may not happen. The team, though, thank god, seems not to be too distracted by Haslam's business problems. And that is good!

Re Heckert, he did a decent job for the Browns. I am not a Lombardi fan at all but his few 2013 draft picks may turn out mostly OK and we signed a few decent UDFAs like Faulk from LSU . Who knows at this point. I wonder if Slaughter will make an impac this season, though, coming off a major injury.

My biggest disappointment with Lombardi and Banner is that we should have kept the 4th and 5th round picks
-- some good players were still available that would have rally helped in 2013 and could have grown with this young team, other teams like Pitts. went out to get the deep talent in lower rounds -- and we didn't get a quality TE or CB in free agency, even though we had plenty of money.

To me there is an extreme sense of urgency to get a lot better -- NOW -- not two to three years down the road. I think we could have done more to make that happen beginning in 2013.

For example, Weeden needs a quality TE to help make him better in the passing game, and we are not better there. Cameron is largely unproven and seems to be injury prone and his backups have hardly come here with rave reviews as impact pass receivers.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:38 am

Govbarney wrote:
YahooFanChicago wrote:This is one ugly thread.

I'm just hoping for a new ownership group since I don't like Jimmay and Banner. How entertaining would it be to see Jimmay and Banner crash and burn and a new owner bring back Heckert. I am not saying Heckert was awesome (I do think he was good) but I would love to see him ignore and then fire the guy who just ignored and fired him last year.


Yes because its so "entertaining" to watch the Browns suck. I would think you would have had enough of that form of entertainment the past decade and a half.



+ 1

That post didn't even make sense.

Best case is they win now, keep continuity in the FO & on the field, and the schemin' slick southerner goes back to Dixie on a rail in an orange jump suit and we get a new owner.

But enough of rudderless suck as a means to an end.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:48 am

AttackOffense wrote:Well, I understand your feelings about Joe Banner but I think a lot of Browns fans just want a little bit of stability for a change. .


I too want stability, but stability under the wrong guy(s) is not going to lead to what we really want.

At this point, however, I'm more interested in the coaching staff and the team and hoping they can provide us with something slightly less nauseating than the past.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:50 am

AttackOffense wrote:Well, I understand your feelings about Joe Banner but I think a lot of Browns fans just want a little bit of stability for a change. But as you point out, with Haslam under investigation et al, that may not happen. The team, though, thank god, seems not to be too distracted by Haslam's business problems. And that is good!

Re Heckert, he did a decent job for the Browns. I am not a Lombardi fan at all but his few 2013 draft picks may turn out mostly OK and we signed a few decent UDFAs like Faulk from LSU . Who knows at this point. I wonder if Slaughter will make an impac this season, though, coming off a major injury.

My biggest disappointment with Lombardi and Banner is that we should have kept the 4th and 5th round picks
-- some good players were still available that would have rally helped in 2013 and could have grown with this young team, other teams like Pitts. went out to get the deep talent in lower rounds -- and we didn't get a quality TE or CB in free agency, even though we had plenty of money.

To me there is an extreme sense of urgency to get a lot better -- NOW -- not two to three years down the road. I think we could have done more to make that happen beginning in 2013.

For example, Weeden needs a quality TE to help make him better in the passing game, and we are not better there. Cameron is largely unproven and seems to be injury prone and his backups have hardly come here with rave reviews as impact pass receivers.



AO, I'm glad you're here. You're takes have knowledge and the gene pool here is waaaaay too small for good discussion 6 days out of 7. We need more cats like you. But I'm strating to see a pattern here so it's time to welcome you to the family.

Now, given the abysmal player development program of past FO's you may be sopt on.

But you keep tellin' me how we didn't get any better and sorts at position groupings a new systems.

We'e not better at TE? How do you know? You haven't even seen these guys play in the here and now in this circumstance.

The pattern I'm seeing is that if the FO didn't draft "your" guys we're not better. You know, the Brian McPeek jilted drafnik phenominon. (inlove)

I know every year these guys suck. But Fred davis is a GD head case off injury. I'm not crying. It seems JC can't stay healthy. I know Kellen can't catch. But IDK what Barnidge can do. None likely have the potential to be elite, but maybe they can be enough to improve over a concussed Ben Watson missing games & Alex Smith, who is essentially a smaller Kellen. So I conclude functional mediocrity > injured and suck.

Football is the ultimate TEAM sport. It is damn near impossible to take one single variable, point to it and say "taht's it"! Maybe like if you add a Peyton manning or something in his system. But we really don't know what we have. Role players can make a difference in this sport in the rightsystem like no other. Just becasue they didn't add your players you can't say we didn't improve until you see a few games. It also doesn't mean we did. It means the potential is there for marginal improvement (truth -> we didn't add elite talent) or meh. IDK. Neither do you.

Hope this is taken the right way. Welcome to the family! Fire away back.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:32 am

AO- Another helpful hint:

If someone disagrees with your opinion you should just say "I just don't know/Let's wait and see what we actually gots".

Because clearly these boards are not to be used for opinion or speculation. Only the review of actual performances and facts are discussed here.

Their opinions and rationale matter.

Yours are baseless and speculative and reek of jilted disappointment and some type of agenda.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:34 am

peeker643 wrote:AO- Another helpful hint:

If someone disagrees with your opinion you should just say "I just don't know/Let's wait and see what we actually gots".

Because clearly these boards are not to be used for opinion or speculation. Only the review of actual performances and facts are discussed here.

Their opinions and rationale matter.

Yours are baseless and speculative and reek of jilted disappointment and some type of agenda.



It also helps to bring lot's of tissue. :nanner:
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:41 am

peeker643 wrote:AO- Another helpful hint:

If someone disagrees with your opinion you should just say "I just don't know/Let's wait and see what we actually gots".

Because clearly these boards are not to be used for opinion or speculation. Only the review of actual performances and facts are discussed here.

Their opinions and rationale matter.

Yours are baseless and speculative and reek of jilted disappointment and some type of agenda.


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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby AttackOffense » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:18 pm

jb wrote:
AttackOffense wrote:
AO, I'm glad you're here. You're takes have knowledge and the gene pool here is waaaaay too small for good discussion 6 days out of 7. We need more cats like you. But I'm strating to see a pattern here so it's time to welcome you to the family.

Now, given the abysmal player development program of past FO's you may be sopt on.

But you keep tellin' me how we didn't get any better and sorts at position groupings a new systems.

We'e not better at TE? How do you know? You haven't even seen these guys play in the here and now in this circumstance.

The pattern I'm seeing is that if the FO didn't draft "your" guys we're not better. You know, the Brian McPeek jilted drafnik phenominon. (inlove)

I know every year these guys suck. But Fred davis is a GD head case off injury. I'm not crying. It seems JC can't stay healthy. I know Kellen can't catch. But IDK what Barnidge can do. None likely have the potential to be elite, but maybe they can be enough to improve over a concussed Ben Watson missing games & Alex Smith, who is essentially a smaller Kellen. So I conclude functional mediocrity > injured and suck.

Football is the ultimate TEAM sport. It is damn near impossible to take one single variable, point to it and say "taht's it"! Maybe like if you add a Peyton manning or something in his system. But we really don't know what we have. Role players can make a difference in this sport in the rightsystem like no other. Just becasue they didn't add your players you can't say we didn't improve until you see a few games. It also doesn't mean we did. It means the potential is there for marginal improvement (truth -> we didn't add elite talent) or meh. IDK. Neither do you.

Hope this is taken the right way. Welcome to the family! Fire away back.


Well, if you want facts, just go examine some of the performance data and fan comments re Davis and Barnidge. Davis had some big-time drops for the Bears last year (why some called him "Stone Hands") and, according to posts by fans, also missed some key blocks in critial situations.

He is not rated very highly as a TE and was pretty much run out of town in Chicago (fans cheered online when they learned he was gone, same with Atlanta fans re CB Owens who the Browns signed). Barnidge played for Chud for several years in Carolina (he was out with an injury all 2011) but was never much of a factor on offense. Most see him more as a blocker here but maybe he'll play a larger role. But you'd think that playing for Carolina last year and their attack offense with a good QB that if Barnidge was a real asset as a receiver, they would have taken advantage of that more.

On balance, I just wish we had found a way to add a more sure handed, more explosive type of TE as a receiver so we could keep defenses off balance more. All I'm saying. I wish we had been more strategic in looking at the off-season and gotten a CB like Grimes in FA so we could have used that third pick for a tight end in the draft, and there were a bunch of good ones available.

Cameron has been with the Browns two years and in my estimation is very much an unknown factor. You'd that after two years we'd know what we have there. But we don't.

I think TE is a very important receiving position in the modern day NFL offense. And that's especially true of Chud's offense. I hope it all works out.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby jb » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:04 pm

AttackOffense wrote:
jb wrote:
AttackOffense wrote:
AO, I'm glad you're here. You're takes have knowledge and the gene pool here is waaaaay too small for good discussion 6 days out of 7. We need more cats like you. But I'm strating to see a pattern here so it's time to welcome you to the family.

Now, given the abysmal player development program of past FO's you may be sopt on.

But you keep tellin' me how we didn't get any better and sorts at position groupings a new systems.

We'e not better at TE? How do you know? You haven't even seen these guys play in the here and now in this circumstance.

The pattern I'm seeing is that if the FO didn't draft "your" guys we're not better. You know, the Brian McPeek jilted drafnik phenominon. (inlove)

I know every year these guys suck. But Fred davis is a GD head case off injury. I'm not crying. It seems JC can't stay healthy. I know Kellen can't catch. But IDK what Barnidge can do. None likely have the potential to be elite, but maybe they can be enough to improve over a concussed Ben Watson missing games & Alex Smith, who is essentially a smaller Kellen. So I conclude functional mediocrity > injured and suck.

Football is the ultimate TEAM sport. It is damn near impossible to take one single variable, point to it and say "taht's it"! Maybe like if you add a Peyton manning or something in his system. But we really don't know what we have. Role players can make a difference in this sport in the rightsystem like no other. Just becasue they didn't add your players you can't say we didn't improve until you see a few games. It also doesn't mean we did. It means the potential is there for marginal improvement (truth -> we didn't add elite talent) or meh. IDK. Neither do you.

Hope this is taken the right way. Welcome to the family! Fire away back.


Well, if you want facts, just go examine some of the performance data and fan comments re Davis and Barnidge. Davis had some big-time drops for the Bears last year (why some called him "Stone Hands") and, according to posts by fans, also missed some key blocks in critial situations.

He is not rated very highly as a TE and was pretty much run out of town in Chicago (fans cheered online when they learned he was gone, same with Atlanta fans re CB Owens who the Browns signed). Barnidge played for Chud for several years in Carolina (he was out with an injury all 2011) but was never much of a factor on offense. Most see him more as a blocker here but maybe he'll play a larger role. But you'd think that playing for Carolina last year and their attack offense with a good QB that if Barnidge was a real asset as a receiver, they would have taken advantage of that more.

On balance, I just wish we had found a way to add a more sure handed, more explosive type of TE as a receiver so we could keep defenses off balance more. All I'm saying. I wish we had been more strategic in looking at the off-season and gotten a CB like Grimes in FA so we could have used that third pick for a tight end in the draft, and there were a bunch of good ones available.

Cameron has been with the Browns two years and in my estimation is very much an unknown factor. You'd that after two years we'd know what we have there. But we don't.

I think TE is a very important receiving position in the modern day NFL offense. And that's especially true of Chud's offense. I hope it all works out.



Don't get me wrong - I would have loved a quality TE prospect and if we had the next Russ francis at the position, huzzah.

But keep in mind the up thread Molly Ringwold threashold. We are talking Alex Smith and a concussed Ben Watson. The bar ain't real high here. The issue isn't whether we'll have a premier TE attack. We won't. It's whether we'll be better than lastyear.

Kellen Davis can't catch a cold. But he is huge and can block. Word from OTA's in that in the 2 WR base he's lining up at H-back as a starter. As a blocker, davis > Smith in all liklihood.

So now we're looking at whether JC can ever stay healthy. In his playing time last year I thought a JC for 16 games in an evolved offesne that send the TE into the seem would be an upgrade over Ben Watson as a one off trade. Kid can flat out motor and has very nice hands as a receiver. the question is whether he can stay healthy. Right now he looks like Evan Mooreon the bike.

This leaves us with T-Rex arms Barnige. He's a young player with some upside the staff really seems to like. He's shown well in shorts and shells season but we all know what that is worth. The fact was that he wasn't gonna take plays away from a Greg Olson. IDK if that means he can't be a contributor.

So if the threashold is "improvemnet" I think that while they couldn't prioritize & close on adding TE talent as they did pass run they did "improve".

We went from Molly Ringwold to debbie Gibson (modern day). But we still don't have a hayden panatierre. But you know, one thing at a time.

This bunch is still an off season or two away from real contension with the Bengals and ravens.
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Re: FBI Locks Down Flying J Headquarters

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:16 pm

With or without JC I think the Browns will exploit the seams this season. Between Little, Gordon and Nelson and with Bess/Benjamin/B Jackson and Dion Lewis, they'll be able to do so in one way or another.

IF JC gets/stays healthy they're even more dangerous. But let's be honest: TEs like Moore and to an extent Watson were basically guys too fast for LBs and too big for DBs. They have that w/Little/Gordon and Nelson.

If the O can create some matchup issues and Weeds can recognize them, they'll be fine.

Obviously that's the biggest caveat, but if it happens I like this offense as much as any they've put on the field here since '99.

YMMV.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

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