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Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

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Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue May 07, 2013 4:48 pm

What's the deal with the Indians? They have an exciting, interesting, fun, and improved team, yet hardly anyone in Cleveland wants to come to see them.

The Indians spent more on free agents than anyone outside Los Angeles. Yet, they are last in baseball in drawing fans -- by a wide margin.

The 15-14 Indians lead baseball in home runs (44, tied with the Braves) and have the highest OPS (.817) for every team not playing home games at Coors Field. Yet, they have drawn 20 percent fewer fans than the second worst-drawing team, the Royals, another interesting, vastly improved team that's looking to catch on in KC.

The Indians' average attendance is 14,764, down 3.9 percent from last year, and not even within shouting distance of KC, which is averaging 18,498.

The Indians are by far baseball's most disappointing draw so far, bringing in tiny crowds despite a lot of offense, vastly improved play, and new, colorful personalities. A so-so first few weeks didn't help, but they've now won seven of eight -- scoring at least six runs in all seven victories -- and it's not picking up yet. They drew 9,500 for their game with the A's on Monday night, a 7-3 victory.


http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-h ... ne-at-gate
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby pup » Tue May 07, 2013 4:52 pm

I have long been on the don't blame the fans for not coming brigade.

It is a lot harder to bang that drum right now.

This...is... embarrassing.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue May 07, 2013 5:07 pm

Weather was an excuse over the White Sox and Red Sox series. It hasn't been a valid excuse since. It's been beautiful at the ballpark the last nine days.

I think factors like downtown construction and the absurd cost of parking are doing a lot of damage.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Squints » Tue May 07, 2013 5:39 pm

It would be interesting to know what the tv and radio ratings are. I always thought that should be included in the "Why do/don't the Fans Support this Team" argument. If they are pulling a high rating/share then you know the support is there in some shape or form.

It's hard for me to go. If I still lived in the area, it would still be hard for me to go. Got a family, one child old enough to be involved in a shit load of activities, every day- not leaving the wife to take care of all of the chauffeuring plus everything else, she is also in the 5th month of a complicated pregnancy. Shit needs planned, would love to be able to go to a game on a whim but it isn't possible. Even on a rare day where there is nothing planned, got shit to do around the house and in the yard. And I know that this does not only pertain to me.

But that doesn't mean that I don't support this team. I listen and catch a few innings each night, make sure to tune in at the end of the game if it is close. Sure the attendance sucks right now, but that doesn't mean that there are only 9000 true Tribe fans out there. Many more support this team who can't go- for whatever reason. Douchebags like cbsports.com guy need to recognize this
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue May 07, 2013 6:03 pm

Squints wrote: Sure the attendance sucks right now, but that doesn't mean that there are only 9000 true Tribe fans out there. Many more support this team who can't go- for whatever reason. Douchebags like cbsports.com guy need to recognize this


Not disagreeing with you and there are obviously a few thousand reasons (miles) as to why I can't go either but, isn't the point that the same no doubt applies for the other 29 teams fans?

There are no doubt fans in those areas who can't go for the same reasons as you or I.

The question is why is the attendance worse than smaller markets and/or worse/less interesting teams. Assuming the demographics of the fan bases are similar, this team should be drawing more fans than a LOT of teams in MLB.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Tue May 07, 2013 6:05 pm

They're a .500 team coming off years of losing.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue May 07, 2013 6:19 pm

GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:They're a .500 team coming off years of losing.


This.

Talk to me in mid July.

If they're still playing well then, I might consider making the trek up to have my wallet raped.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Squints » Tue May 07, 2013 6:53 pm

And there's that too. Didn't want to mention the actual product on the field. Better starts the last 2 years and we know how that finished. Fans taking the wait-and-see approach, don't blame them nor will I chastise them.

But, at least the public can't just blame management this time.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Squints » Tue May 07, 2013 7:14 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
Squints wrote: Sure the attendance sucks right now, but that doesn't mean that there are only 9000 true Tribe fans out there. Many more support this team who can't go- for whatever reason. Douchebags like cbsports.com guy need to recognize this


Not disagreeing with you and there are obviously a few thousand reasons (miles) as to why I can't go either but, isn't the point that the same no doubt applies for the other 29 teams fans?

There are no doubt fans in those areas who can't go for the same reasons as you or I.


It just gets under my skin when I read some jag with a computer write about why Cleveland fans don't do this or act a certain way or tell me what to do and how I should feel. Like he is talking directly to me. It's not just that piece. I tuned in Reghi after Sunday's game through tune-in radio and he was going on about the same thing. Turned it right off, don't need another one-sided lecture. I thought- beautiful day, get stuff done outside while listening to the game.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue May 07, 2013 7:39 pm

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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby 7foot3 » Tue May 07, 2013 7:49 pm

Squints wrote:And there's that too. Didn't want to mention the actual product on the field. Better starts the last 2 years and we know how that finished. Fans taking the wait-and-see approach, don't blame them nor will I chastise them.

But, at least the public can't just blame management this time.


I'm not telling you how to feel, as you seem sensitive enough about that, but how the team played late in each of the last two seasons will effect how you feel about watching the team at the park tonight? Huh? Yeah, they'll probably end up .500 team that won't make the playoffs, but they're playing good, entertaining ball right now. Worry about a potential August collapse when it actually happens.

And somebody pointing out that having shit to do isn't unique to the Cleveland fan base isn't a one-sided lecture.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue May 07, 2013 9:50 pm

Frank Herrmann on Twitter


I would never tell people how to spend their hard earned disposable income but sub 10,000 fans back to back nights to see the hottest team..

In baseball is not getting it done. I am going to provide my own little stimulus package and give out two tickets to tomorrow nights game.

I will announce winner noon tomorrow. Contest is: Best Original Nickname for a current Tribe player. 1-it must be original 2-in good taste


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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby justmebd » Tue May 07, 2013 10:29 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:They're a .500 team coming off years of losing.


This.

Talk to me in mid July.

If they're still playing well then, I might consider making the trek up to have my wallet raped.

I second this, and I will add I still do NOT trust the front office or the ownership. They went out and spent some money this offseason, huzzah!! If the team starts to fall apart in July, history tells me they'll hold another fire sale.

I'm hopeful Francona won't let this team implode like Manny Acta routinely did, but this team will still have to be in contention in August for me to start thinking about actually spending money at the ballpark.

Too many years of bad management putting an inferior product on the field, and even worse, putting one out the last few years that came out to hot starts before disappearing before the start of August.

Loving all the winning lately, I'll enjoy it while it lasts -- from the comfort of my living room.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue May 07, 2013 10:38 pm

I have no idea why the attendance sucks. Maybe it will improve with consistent winning across a few seasons, but the bottom line is that we are the worst in baseball. Excuses are like assholes. The simple truth is that this city just probably isn't as chock full of awesome sports fans as we like to pretend.

Pup's right. It's embarrassing.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue May 07, 2013 10:41 pm

What say we help the cause with a trip down to Progressive Field sometime in the near future?

Worst case scenario we watch a ballgame a down a few oat soda's with some good guys.


Best case scenario we might even find Rattail's keys.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue May 07, 2013 10:55 pm

I really think it just comes down to money. There are less dollars to go around.
It's the reason I dont get to 12 -14 games a year anymore. Im lucky now if I can get up for one weekend series a year now for the last 3 years.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Govbarney » Tue May 07, 2013 11:20 pm

Anyone know the North East Ohio census figures for caucassian males age 18-35? My guess is its pretty low compared to many other Major League markets. Problem is a huge chunk of this demographic had to move away to get a job in the last 15 yrs, and that right there is a Demo with a decent amount of disposable income that happens to still be baseball fans.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Squints » Tue May 07, 2013 11:42 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Best case scenario we might even find Rattail's keys.


Still funny.


7'3"- Like I said, I am not the only one who's got shit to do, never said it was unique to me or the fan base. Just saying that there are people out there, like me, who would love to go to more games than we actually get to. As far as Reghi lecturing the listeners, turned it right off. We can get into the hows and whys, reasons, costs that may be keeping more fans away and all that but it's the same stuff that that's been going around the past few years. Cheers to you and yours.

Who knows, once school's out and things slow down I can get up to the Jake. Would love to find Rat Tail's keys or maybe stand at the home run porch while listening to Adam talk about sabermetrics- not really kidding.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby bookelly » Tue May 07, 2013 11:43 pm

I'll fly back for a weekend to catch a couple games, but I'm gonna be damn sure its warmer than it is now.

Attendance historically does a lot better when the kiddies get out of school.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby GodHatesClevelandSport » Wed May 08, 2013 1:22 am

No one owes the Indians a trip to the ballpark.

People who criticize others for not going to games exude an attitude that says otherwise.

Baseball fans will go to the games. Others will go on special occasions. 1994-2001 were several of those occasions.

Apart from those years, Indians attendance has been near the bottom of the league since the 1950s.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Commodore Perry » Wed May 08, 2013 9:51 am

Replace the word 'fans' with the word 'customers' and this debate becomes silly.

Anyone in business knows that once you lose a customer, it takes an awful lot of time and money to get them back. It doesn't happen over night just because you spent a lot of money and hit a bunch of homeruns. Its going to happen slowly over the course of seasons.

And having your media shills browbeat your customer base isn't going to bring the 'fans' back any faster. If anything, it makes customers just tune you out.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed May 08, 2013 10:15 am

Commodore Perry wrote:Replace the word 'fans' with the word 'customers' and this debate becomes silly.

Anyone in business knows that once you lose a customer, it takes an awful lot of time and money to get them back. It doesn't happen over night just because you spent a lot of money and hit a bunch of homeruns. Its going to happen slowly over the course of seasons.


But doesn't that still not answer the question of "why so much worse in Cleveland"?

There's been worse teams providing worse products to their customers over a longer period who aren't last in the world in attendance.

I don't really have an opinion one way or another other than, even with all the things mentioned in this post - lack of trust in the front office, years of losing, the weather, personal matters - this team shouldn't probably be last in baseball in fans through the gates because, if those factors really determine attendance in general around the game, then there should probably be at least a few teams drawing much worse.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby 7foot3 » Wed May 08, 2013 10:47 am

Squints wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
Best case scenario we might even find Rattail's keys.


Still funny.


7'3"- Like I said, I am not the only one who's got shit to do, never said it was unique to me or the fan base. Just saying that there are people out there, like me, who would love to go to more games than we actually get to. As far as Reghi lecturing the listeners, turned it right off. We can get into the hows and whys, reasons, costs that may be keeping more fans away and all that but it's the same stuff that that's been going around the past few years. Cheers to you and yours.

Who knows, once school's out and things slow down I can get up to the Jake. Would love to find Rat Tail's keys or maybe stand at the home run porch while listening to Adam talk about sabermetrics- not really kidding.


I'm just trying to understand. Like has been said many times here, all the factors people are using for why Clevelanders aren't showing up apply to a lot of other fanbases who are showing up. It's not a one-sided lecture, and it's odd that you get so defensive so quickly.

And, still trying to understand, why does a potential late season collapse effect how much you can enjoy the team now? Especially when that collapse hasn't happened yet.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Wed May 08, 2013 10:51 am

skatingtripods wrote:Weather was an excuse over the White Sox and Red Sox series. It hasn't been a valid excuse since. It's been beautiful at the ballpark the last nine days.

I think factors like downtown construction and the absurd cost of parking are doing a lot of damage.


Construction is a complete clusterf*ck, I agree. But I paid $12 in the East Garage last night, which is as close as it gets. Seems reasonable. And traffic still moved as I was coming in off 77 before the game. There really isn't much of an excuse anymore. A lot of the debate in this thread would apply if they were drawing 18-20 a night instead of selling out like the Tigers do. But these pathetic Municipal Stadium-esque crowds just don't make sense. Goes to show you how hard it can be to overcome a negative perception.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed May 08, 2013 11:00 am

Actually going to games will be obsolete in about 20 years anyhow. In that time, they'll sell you season tickets, but instead of sitting in your seat, you'll watch in live 3D in your own living room from any point of the field or stadium, from behind the plate, to the dugout.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed May 08, 2013 12:43 pm

7foot3 wrote:
Squints wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
Best case scenario we might even find Rattail's keys.


Still funny.


7'3"- Like I said, I am not the only one who's got shit to do, never said it was unique to me or the fan base. Just saying that there are people out there, like me, who would love to go to more games than we actually get to. As far as Reghi lecturing the listeners, turned it right off. We can get into the hows and whys, reasons, costs that may be keeping more fans away and all that but it's the same stuff that that's been going around the past few years. Cheers to you and yours.

Who knows, once school's out and things slow down I can get up to the Jake. Would love to find Rat Tail's keys or maybe stand at the home run porch while listening to Adam talk about sabermetrics- not really kidding.


I'm just trying to understand. Like has been said many times here, all the factors people are using for why Clevelanders aren't showing up apply to a lot of other fanbases who are showing up. It's not a one-sided lecture, and it's odd that you get so defensive so quickly.

And, still trying to understand, why does a potential late season collapse effect how much you can enjoy the team now? Especially when that collapse hasn't happened yet.


Not sure I understand this either.

Maybe there's a difference between being a baseball fan and an Indians fan?

Throw out Opening Day if ya want, but I still love going down there now like I loved riding the 39B down there when I was 13 or 14.

It's baseball at the highest level they play it.

Every game's a puzzle, every pitch a piece. Can't imagine not going down there for games regardless of the month.

Sat through the Snow Opener in '07 with my oldest who was 12. She graduates high school this season and she's been to more games this season than I have (4 to 3). Completely hooked and pretty knowledgeable about the game too. Been to games where the Indians were 25 games out in September and saw a Stieb no-hitter for the effort, almost exactly two years to the day as when I was down there watching Julio Franco break up another Stieb no-hitter w/2-outs in the 9th (on a bad-hop single).

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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed May 08, 2013 2:38 pm

I'm over the whole attendance thing. I'm done having any expectations for Cleveland fans.

I've already been to half of the home games (8/15 - not going tonight) and I don't know how many times I've heard "Who's this guy?" or "Where's Sizemore?"

If they win, the bandwagon will fill back up. If they don't, the Dolans could have a $150M payroll and people still won't show.

To echo Peeker. I like baseball, but I love Indians baseball. There's nothing better than a night at the yard. People who call baseball boring don't understand it. They don't understand the game's intricacies. It makes it so much more enjoyable to guess along with the hitter. Guess what the pitcher's going to throw. Wonder if a runner is taking off or not. It enhances the experience.

And Squints, if I could find anybody to talk sabermetrics with on the Porch, I'd be stunned. I'm lucky if the guy next to me knows who's playing left field.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby 1Perry » Wed May 08, 2013 9:22 pm

It's not like many haven't noted that this is where the Indians were headed the last few years. You can't blame the fans for everything that went wrong and not expect this kind of reaction.

I hope to make the trip up Monday.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Wed May 08, 2013 11:05 pm

Kingpin74 wrote:Construction is a complete clusterf*ck, I agree. But I paid $12 in the East Garage last night, which is as close as it gets. Seems reasonable....


Parking near Fenway is pricey. ONE lot at $20, ONE at $25, TWO at $30 and the rest are $35 and up. Even street parking is $22. IF you can find it. We've never been to Fenway, even though it is historic and all. And don't even get me started on driving in Bahstun. I miss Cleveland...
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Boog » Thu May 09, 2013 12:07 pm

peeker643 wrote:If you love the game and love watching live baseball you go. You just do.


^^This. I'm with Peek on this one.

Forget the fan's problems with ownership/front office. The Tribe is playing solid ball, and they deserve to have fans there to back them. The fact that the Toledo Mud Hens, the local triple a club, routinely brings in 10k+ fans makes the attendance at the Prog even more of a joke.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby cozmeesah » Thu May 09, 2013 5:28 pm

7foot3 wrote:
Squints wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
Best case scenario we might even find Rattail's keys.


Still funny.


7'3"- Like I said, I am not the only one who's got shit to do, never said it was unique to me or the fan base. Just saying that there are people out there, like me, who would love to go to more games than we actually get to. As far as Reghi lecturing the listeners, turned it right off. We can get into the hows and whys, reasons, costs that may be keeping more fans away and all that but it's the same stuff that that's been going around the past few years. Cheers to you and yours.

Who knows, once school's out and things slow down I can get up to the Jake. Would love to find Rat Tail's keys or maybe stand at the home run porch while listening to Adam talk about sabermetrics- not really kidding.


I'm just trying to understand. Like has been said many times here, all the factors people are using for why Clevelanders aren't showing up apply to a lot of other fanbases who are showing up. It's not a one-sided lecture, and it's odd that you get so defensive so quickly.

And, still trying to understand, why does a potential late season collapse effect how much you can enjoy the team now? Especially when that collapse hasn't happened yet.


This. Just... yes.

I live an hour away and usually don't leave work until 7 or after or I'd be there a few times a homestand. It doesn't have to cost you a lot of money. You can bring in your own single-serving food & water, bleacher tix are $10, you can park for $5-$10 at E.14th St and the weather is gorgeous. I don't care if they don't win a game in the 2nd half. It's my favorite place on Earth to be. The sights, the sounds, the smells... there's nothing like it.

But oh well. I figure it's their loss. I'll just have every right to roll my eyes at them when they finally do jump on the bandwagon and throw several idiotic statements out, such as (like Adam said) "Who is that?1?" or "Where's Grady?" Both of which I've heard way too often already.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Govbarney » Thu May 09, 2013 7:21 pm

Well I decided to do my civic duty and take the road trip up to my hometown this weekend and catch the two for one special on Monday before returning back to the BuS (it also doesn't hurt that I will get some brownie points for taken me Ma' to brunch Sunday). Anyone know who the pitchers will be? I am hoping Bauer gets called up for a spot start , but I haven't heard anything yet.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu May 09, 2013 8:04 pm

Govbarney wrote:Well I decided to do my civic duty and take the road trip up to my hometown this weekend and catch the two for one special on Monday before returning back to the BuS (it also doesn't hurt that I will get some brownie points for taken me Ma' to brunch Sunday). Anyone know who the pitchers will be? I am hoping Bauer gets called up for a spot start , but I haven't heard anything yet.


Masterson will start one game and I'd say it's a 99% chance Bauer starts the other.

Bauer was held back in AAA this week by a day to put him closer to in line to pitch on Monday.

There just isn't really any other options than Bauer at this point (with Carrasco suspended) and, with the 26th man allowed for a DH, you can call him up without having to send anyone out.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby 1Perry » Thu May 09, 2013 9:49 pm

To catch Masterson and Bauer in a real double header against the Yankee's would make a small crowd hard to defend for anyone.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu May 09, 2013 10:21 pm

1Perry wrote:To catch Masterson and Bauer in a real double header against the Yankee's would make a small crowd hard to defend for anyone.


Well, a lot of people have to work on Monday afternoon. But of the four Athletics games, the day game drew the most people, so who knows.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby 1Perry » Thu May 09, 2013 10:30 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
1Perry wrote:To catch Masterson and Bauer in a real double header against the Yankee's would make a small crowd hard to defend for anyone.


Well, a lot of people have to work on Monday afternoon. But of the four Athletics games, the day game drew the most people, so who knows.


Many will have to work but I would think that would be a draw for even casual fans.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Fri May 10, 2013 9:27 am

skatingtripods wrote:Well, a lot of people have to work on Monday afternoon.


Not in Cleveland. (insert rim shot emoticon here.)
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Govbarney » Fri May 10, 2013 10:32 am

Que Lee Elia's rant.

I love day games b/c it gives me something to listen to at work, or it's a great excuse to play hookey. The one negative is parking and traffic is a bitch during day games, which makes Thursdays attendance spike odd because one of the main reasons I keep hearing for the shit attendance is parking/traffic ( which honestly I never understood, compared to other major league cities parking/traffic in Ctown has always been a breeze)
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby statmasta » Fri May 10, 2013 6:59 pm

Commodore Perry wrote:Replace the word 'fans' with the word 'customers' and this debate becomes silly.

Anyone in business knows that once you lose a customer, it takes an awful lot of time and money to get them back. It doesn't happen over night just because you spent a lot of money and hit a bunch of homeruns. Its going to happen slowly over the course of seasons.

And having your media shills browbeat your customer base isn't going to bring the 'fans' back any faster. If anything, it makes customers just tune you out.

Then explain the MARLINS averaging about 4,500 more fans per game than the Indians.

I'm struggling to come to any conclusion other than the fans suck. Everybody in Miami hates the Marlins, the team is dreadful, they have the worst owner in sports, and they still get far more fans than the Indians.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Commodore Perry » Sat May 11, 2013 11:08 am

statmasta wrote:
Commodore Perry wrote:Replace the word 'fans' with the word 'customers' and this debate becomes silly.

Anyone in business knows that once you lose a customer, it takes an awful lot of time and money to get them back. It doesn't happen over night just because you spent a lot of money and hit a bunch of homeruns. Its going to happen slowly over the course of seasons.

And having your media shills browbeat your customer base isn't going to bring the 'fans' back any faster. If anything, it makes customers just tune you out.

Then explain the MARLINS averaging about 4,500 more fans per game than the Indians.




2 World Series titles in the last 16 years, and a brand new stadium.


Do you honestly think the Indians wouldn't be drawing if they had won the series in 95 and then again in 07, and then moved into a new stadium last year? If that were true,what kind of attendence do you think they'd be drawing? Do you still think they would be in last place? Be honest.

The Marlins are a well run business in a really bad market. The Indians are a very poorly run business in a decent market. Maybe the recent money spent was a good business move. If so, it will gradually show up in attendence numbers. But no business turns around on a dime.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Commodore Perry » Sat May 11, 2013 11:13 am

statmasta wrote:I'm struggling to come to any conclusion other than the fans suck.


That's certainly the message the Indians are putting out there through their media connections.

They've got a stadium full of empty seats and instead of doing customer friendly things like offering buy one get one tickets or giving away sections of tickets to local companies, they've just decided to push the message that you are a horrible human being for not coming to the games.

Good luck with that.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sat May 11, 2013 3:44 pm

I'm with Commodore on this. Fuck you, don't try and guilt trip me or shame me into supporting your product. Put a decent one on display for more than 2 months, and I might consider throwing a few bones your way, because i'm so generous.

The cunty media, other fans, or pieces of shit like Chris Perez trying to guilt people into coming out, makes me want to do it less.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby FUDU » Sat May 11, 2013 7:24 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:They're a .500 team coming off years of losing.


This.

Talk to me in mid July.

If they're still playing well then, I might consider making the trek up to have my wallet raped.

Exactly, I don't think this is that hard to figure out.

Should it be higher just b/c, OK sure, but what maybe 4-5K a game higher?

This whole notion that the Jake should have 35K in it every game is ridiculous. The past ten years of baseball in this town has sucked ass, with exception of two little blips on the radar screen. Is what it is.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sat May 11, 2013 8:19 pm

FUDU wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:They're a .500 team coming off years of losing.


This.

Talk to me in mid July.

If they're still playing well then, I might consider making the trek up to have my wallet raped.

Exactly, I don't think this is that hard to figure out.

Should it be higher just b/c, OK sure, but what maybe 4-5K a game higher?

This whole notion that the Jake should have 35K in it every game is ridiculous. The past ten years of baseball in this town has sucked ass, with exception of two little blips on the radar screen. Is what it is.


I don't think anyone is suggesting that there should be 35K a night down there. But we surely shouldn't be dead last in attendance, no matter the circumstance. Especially for a self-defined "great sports town".
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat May 11, 2013 8:31 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
FUDU wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:They're a .500 team coming off years of losing.


This.

Talk to me in mid July.

If they're still playing well then, I might consider making the trek up to have my wallet raped.

Exactly, I don't think this is that hard to figure out.

Should it be higher just b/c, OK sure, but what maybe 4-5K a game higher?

This whole notion that the Jake should have 35K in it every game is ridiculous. The past ten years of baseball in this town has sucked ass, with exception of two little blips on the radar screen. Is what it is.


I don't think anyone is suggesting that there should be 35K a night down there. But we surely shouldn't be dead last in attendance, no matter the circumstance. Especially for a self-defined "great sports town".


Exactly.

People seem to be taking this article from Heyman and morphing it something that it isn't.

Heyman's point is simple and it's one I agree with..... this team shouldn't be LAST in attendance.

Attendance isn't going to be 3m+ fans a year for many of the reasons listed above, but it shouldn't be rock bottom.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby FUDU » Sat May 11, 2013 9:49 pm

Great sports town is of course a bit self defined, but, and not to start this whole debate again, this is not that great a baseball town. It was, with a generation from the past, but not anymore. The whole Era of Champions and 455 streak had a lot to do with the Indians being the IN thing to do and wasn't based in pure baseball love from this city.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun May 12, 2013 8:05 am

<sigh>

Like buzzards to Hinckley, this topic becomes an eagerly awaited annual event. While the average fan gets scolded, onesies and twosies have almost nothing to due with the issue.

It's all about advanced season ticket sales and corporate $$$. Last time I tried to find the numbers it was almost impossible, but IIRC the season ticket base is down something like -15,000 from the 455 days. No amount of walk up/ day of game sales will make up for that.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Sun May 12, 2013 11:43 am

Yeah, I don't think there's too much science to this. Past two years were great starts followed by epic collapses.

Someone above mentioned what the Indians "deserve" No business ever "deserves" anything. You get what you get, and until they prove that they're worth a shit and capable of making a Playoff push, they're just not going to get much.

Also of note: You've got your people that really like to watch the games on STO (me) and you've got your people that really enjoy Tom Hamilton. When you factor in the between innings hoopla and the every 30 second-view obstruction, sometimes staying at home to catch the game is just plain old better.
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby southernflyer » Sun May 12, 2013 10:10 pm

With three minor league affiliates within 100 miles with newer stadiums and an unaffiliated team in Lorain and the Mud Hens in Toledo, I'm not sure unless the team is 30 games above .500 that you will see 30k plus on a regular basis.

With the glory years of the mid 90's to early 00's, most of us didn't have HDTV's as big as our fridges to watch the game on. Projection tv's weren't in the same class. Five years ago a 50" set would have been $1,200+, now you can drop $500 for the same tv and enjoy the game from your sofa. That's what, maybe three live games for a family of four? I can stream any game to my laptop or cell phone now. I don't have to make the extra effort to go to the park and watch the game.

I was in Colorado last weekend and their live crowds were the same as the Indians, cold weather (56 at start and 45 by the end) and around 15k showed up (30.5k official paid attendance). I was able to grab two tickets for less than face of one an hour before the game. It isn't just a "Cleveland" thing. The White Sox are off to a slow start, but they are barely getting 20k a game in a market twice as big as Cleveland. Yes, I know the Cubs will split their fans. Seattle, with a dome, can barely get 50% capacity on a regular basis. Baltimore, after their run last year, can barely fill half their seats.

Maybe the "162 games on tv" is sabotaging a few hundred people from showing up each game. How about for what the team considers "premium games", they not show the game live locally? Even if it is hot dog night, or Saturday or firework nights? Cut it down to 120 games shown, make an incentive for fans to actually drive and see it live.

How about a premium team-specific package for those that stream? Media interviews, programming that isn't available to the general public? Throw in a buy one, get one free ticket coupon with the package for a weekday game or buy two tickets, get free parking?
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Re: Jon Heyman - First in HRs, Last in fans

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm

southernflyer wrote:With three minor league affiliates within 100 miles with newer stadiums and an unaffiliated team in Lorain and the Mud Hens in Toledo, I'm not sure unless the team is 30 games above .500 that you will see 30k plus on a regular basis.

With the glory years of the mid 90's to early 00's, most of us didn't have HDTV's as big as our fridges to watch the game on. Projection tv's weren't in the same class. Five years ago a 50" set would have been $1,200+, now you can drop $500 for the same tv and enjoy the game from your sofa. That's what, maybe three live games for a family of four? I can stream any game to my laptop or cell phone now. I don't have to make the extra effort to go to the park and watch the game.

I was in Colorado last weekend and their live crowds were the same as the Indians, cold weather (56 at start and 45 by the end) and around 15k showed up (30.5k official paid attendance). I was able to grab two tickets for less than face of one an hour before the game. It isn't just a "Cleveland" thing. The White Sox are off to a slow start, but they are barely getting 20k a game in a market twice as big as Cleveland. Yes, I know the Cubs will split their fans. Seattle, with a dome, can barely get 50% capacity on a regular basis. Baltimore, after their run last year, can barely fill half their seats.

Maybe the "162 games on tv" is sabotaging a few hundred people from showing up each game. How about for what the team considers "premium games", they not show the game live locally? Even if it is hot dog night, or Saturday or firework nights? Cut it down to 120 games shown, make an incentive for fans to actually drive and see it live.

How about a premium team-specific package for those that stream? Media interviews, programming that isn't available to the general public? Throw in a buy one, get one free ticket coupon with the package for a weekday game or buy two tickets, get free parking?


Not sure you as an individual fan who has a big screen TV and other options (The Captains?? really??) is the issue. Unless you were a season ticket holder who did not renew. It matters not whether you decide to buy a mini package or go to fireworks night or whatever the lame Bill Veeck inspired promo they might run.

It's all about a season ticket base and a lot of that is driven by hardcore baseball fans and corporations. Both of which are dying off at an alarming rate in NEO.

You might want to re-read what you wrote about the Rockies. They announced 30,500 paid, and less than half showed up due to the weather. But the Rockies still got their $$$ regardless. Sure, they lost out on concessions and parking, but the point isn't whether there is a body in the seat - the point is whether that seat is paid for. When the weather is nice in Denver they'll pull 40,000, because they have a nice season ticket base. The Indians do not. There are a limited number of walk up sales that can be expected in ANY city. I still don't understand how peeps think that better promos will draw enough fans to fill the park. Sure, promos are good, especially those that allow families to go without dropping a couple of hundy, but long term sustainable success is not driven by walk ups or promos.

Shit, even Bud Shaw gets it

Not only can't the season-ticket base get rebuilt in one winter of Terry Francona, Michael Bourn, Mark Reynolds and Nick Swisher, it wouldn't be a good bet over two winters. Not when the season ticket base slipped by nearly 20,000 over the last decade.


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