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As Expected...

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As Expected...

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:07 pm

Kluber up, Carrasco down.

CarCar better grow the fuck up in a hurry.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby jerryroche » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:13 pm

It's been a long time since I've so many fat tomatoes served up as in Carrasco's 3-2/3rds last night. Stuff wasn't all that bad, but the location sucked. The boy needs some work.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby swerb » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:30 am

jerryroche wrote:It's been a long time since I've so many fat tomatoes served up as in Carrasco's 3-2/3rds last night. Stuff wasn't all that bad, but the location sucked. The boy needs some work.

Million dollar arm, ten cent head.

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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:02 am

It wasn't his lack of command that bothered me, it was his poor judgement in hitting someone the day after serving a 6 game suspension for, well, hitting someone.

Coming back after TJ surgery, you'd expect his command to be less than stellar. In a perfect world, he'd have made that first start in Columbus, but being that our starting staff kinda sucks, it was necessary to put him out there. Doesn't excuse his total lack of smarts for what he did. I'd bet he got a lecture from multiple folks in the organization prior to packing his bags.

He's getting a reputation, one that will not serve him well with umpires. They will not hesitate to toss him on pitches that even smell like retaliation now. He may as well roll the first pitch to the batter after a guy takes him yard because if is anywhere near the batter, he's gonna get tossed.

Benefit of the doubt is gone.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:21 am

WiscTribeFan wrote:It wasn't his lack of command that bothered me, it was his poor judgement in hitting someone the day after serving a 6 game suspension for, well, hitting someone.

Coming back after TJ surgery, you'd expect his command to be less than stellar. In a perfect world, he'd have made that first start in Columbus, but being that our starting staff kinda sucks, it was necessary to put him out there. Doesn't excuse his total lack of smarts for what he did. I'd bet he got a lecture from multiple folks in the organization prior to packing his bags.

He's getting a reputation, one that will not serve him well with umpires. They will not hesitate to toss him on pitches that even smell like retaliation now. He may as well roll the first pitch to the batter after a guy takes him yard because if is anywhere near the batter, he's gonna get tossed.

Benefit of the doubt is gone.


+1. I like having Carrasco in this organization. Next to Bauer, he's probably got the most electric arm of all our prospects, even if he's slightly graduated from that distinction. In fact, he's one of the key pieces over the next few years...if we're going to do anything, he's going to have to be a big part of that process. His lack of command was to be expected (although of course we were hoping it wouldn't be THAT bad), but it should come back with time. It's his lack of composure that's concerning. Gotta get that turned around pronto. Five years ago, he probably would have gotten his ass buried in the minors and never returned, but luckily the front office and managerial staff seems more open-minded and willing to work with "problem cases" than in the past, if the potential is there. And it certainly is there.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:28 am

Agree with the pitching side for Carrasco. He has the stuff.

But comportment and demeanor and maturity are a big part of it. Some guys are mature when they get here, some mature more slowly and some never mature at all. The Indians are in trouble if Carrasco is in that last group and right now, especially after Tuesday, it's hard to reach any conclusion other than he's definitely in Group 2 and you pray he he's not a lifetime member of Group 3.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:08 pm

Carrasco gets an 8 game suspension.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:16 pm

Hard to see him back in Cleveland before September now. They can't sit with a 24-man roster for eight days while this loser serves his suspension.

It's a shame. When Jimenez and Myers come out of this rotation sometime this summer, it'll be hard for them to turn to Carrasco, even though he's probably the most MLB-ready once he shakes off the rust.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:23 pm

Tom Withers ‏@twithersAP 27s
#Indians recall LHP Nick Hagadone, activate 1B Jason Giambi, place RHP Matt Albers on paternity list, option RHP Corey Kluber to Columbus.


I always just thought Albers was fat. I didn't know he was pregnant.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:07 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
I always just thought Albers was fat. I didn't know he was pregnant.


:lmfao: Now thats a good one
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:56 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Hard to see him back in Cleveland before September now. They can't sit with a 24-man roster for eight days while this loser serves his suspension.

It's a shame. When Jimenez and Myers come out of this rotation sometime this summer, it'll be hard for them to turn to Carrasco, even though he's probably the most MLB-ready once he shakes off the rust.


Yep...... he's screwed himself.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:00 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Hard to see him back in Cleveland before September now. They can't sit with a 24-man roster for eight days while this loser serves his suspension.

It's a shame. When Jimenez and Myers come out of this rotation sometime this summer, it'll be hard for them to turn to Carrasco, even though he's probably the most MLB-ready once he shakes off the rust.



I don't think they have a choice. The way our pitching is, we have to try and get CarCar up and going in the middle of our rotation ASAP. There is no alternative.

Just pick a spot with no interleague play for a while and when we're healthy.

But I think we have to have Carassco in our rotation ASAP or this season is going to get ugly fast.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:45 pm

Little CC got pretty lucky with just 8 games. I would've suspended him at least 30 days. Think about it: throws at guy-gets 5 game suspension, serves suspension and on 1st game back hits another guy. If I was comish...I'd have thrown him in the clink a lot longer than 8 days.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:00 pm

bookelly wrote:Little CC got pretty lucky with just 8 games. I would've suspended him at least 30 days. Think about it: throws at guy-gets 5 game suspension, serves suspension and on 1st game back hits another guy. If I was comish...I'd have thrown him in the clink a lot longer than 8 days.


In this situation, 8 games is more like 5 months. There's almost no way he comes up until September. That's punishment enough for him and us. He'll keep pitching in AAA, but he's not a viable option until we can burn a roster spot for 8 straight games.

I get the overall point you're making, but the context of this particular situation is different.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby pup » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:06 pm

You realize one off day let's you bring him up, right?

1. Masty
2. Myers
3. McCalister
4. Kazmir
Day off Skip Carasco
5. Masty
6. Myers
7. McCalister
8. Kazmir
Carasco.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:21 pm

pup wrote:You realize one off day let's you bring him up, right?

1. Masty
2. Myers
3. McCalister
4. Kazmir
Day off Skip Carasco
5. Masty
6. Myers
7. McCalister
8. Kazmir
Carasco.


And you waste a 25-man roster spot for 8 games?
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:22 pm

pup wrote:You realize one off day let's you bring him up, right?

1. Masty
2. Myers
3. McCalister
4. Kazmir
Day off Skip Carasco
5. Masty
6. Myers
7. McCalister
8. Kazmir
Carasco.


Agree. If the Indians are in contention, and they think that CC is one of the best 5 starters available (and it's tough to see how he won't be) they will have to suck it up and bring him back before September. I don't see how they can avoid it.

And better that they do before they are forced to due to injuries. If they have a few guys go down it will make it that much harder to work around the suspension.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:26 pm

If they want to go that route, that's their prerogative. With this rotation, I'd find it real difficult to sacrifice a bullpen arm for more than a week just so Carrasco can serve his suspension. The 10-day rule also makes it harder to call-up and send down relievers to keep fresh arms.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby pup » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:30 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
pup wrote:You realize one off day let's you bring him up, right?

1. Masty
2. Myers
3. McCalister
4. Kazmir
Day off Skip Carasco
5. Masty
6. Myers
7. McCalister
8. Kazmir
Carasco.


And you waste a 25-man roster spot for 8 games?


In place of the 8th reliever? Yes.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:38 pm

pup wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
pup wrote:You realize one off day let's you bring him up, right?

1. Masty
2. Myers
3. McCalister
4. Kazmir
Day off Skip Carasco
5. Masty
6. Myers
7. McCalister
8. Kazmir
Carasco.


And you waste a 25-man roster spot for 8 games?


In place of the 8th reliever? Yes.


Fair enough. I'm sure they've looked at every possible scenario and the timing with which they can do this.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby bookelly » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:56 am

So now...when he comes back can he throw inside? Without fearing the repercussion? This is gonna get ugly. Hell. it already is.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:32 am

skatingtripods wrote:
pup wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
pup wrote:You realize one off day let's you bring him up, right?

1. Masty
2. Myers
3. McCalister
4. Kazmir
Day off Skip Carasco
5. Masty
6. Myers
7. McCalister
8. Kazmir
Carasco.


And you waste a 25-man roster spot for 8 games?


In place of the 8th reliever? Yes.


Fair enough. I'm sure they've looked at every possible scenario and the timing with which they can do this.


When everyone gets back (albers, Kazmir, Santana) to full health/availability we're only going to have a 7-man pen.

I find it very hard to believe they'd leave themselves short for over a week with only 6 relievers with the high "blowout" chance these starters have.

And, like Tripods said, the 10-day rule stops you using a AAA-MLB shuffle of relievers to keep everyone fresh.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby pup » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:34 am

Any idea ifhey have to be served consecutively?
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:15 am

pup wrote:Any idea ifhey have to be served consecutively?



Don't think so.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby 1Perry » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:28 am

bookelly wrote:So now...when he comes back can he throw inside? Without fearing the repercussion? This is gonna get ugly. Hell. it already is.


This is something the Indians have to be concerned with. On the one hand they will likely need him as a starter. On the other what happens the very first time he throws inside and gets called on it by the ump?

Does he fluff it off, have the next pitch leave the yard, or get him suspended 30 days?
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:53 am

1Perry wrote:
bookelly wrote:So now...when he comes back can he throw inside? Without fearing the repercussion? This is gonna get ugly. Hell. it already is.


This is something the Indians have to be concerned with. On the one hand they will likely need him as a starter. On the other what happens the very first time he throws inside and gets called on it by the ump?

Does he fluff it off, have the next pitch leave the yard, or get him suspended 30 days?


Well, a valid concern.

I would state that had he not been a raging, immature asshole he wouldn't (like 98% of the pitchers in the game) have to worry about that.

But that short leash is one he keeps removing links from himself so it's on him.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:19 am

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
pup wrote:Any idea ifhey have to be served consecutively?



Don't think so.


Lastoria tweeted that they do. I'm not sure. I'd imagine that they do.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:42 am

Is now the time to play roster shuffle with Carrasco with Myers hurt?

The musing's are that Myers may need to miss his next start at least and is getting his arm checked out in Cleveland, so you could say it's a likely DL situation?

So, Kluber's in line to start on Weds on 3 days rest you assume, not a big deal after pitching only 4 innings yesterday.

So, if you DL Myers now and call up Carrasco then you're not playing shorthanded!

Carrasco can serve the full 8 games before he's needed, the first 4 games of his suspension until Kluber starts on Weds, then you send down Kluber and bring back a reliever to get back to full strength in the pen (maybe Albers will be due back then) and, with the off day on Thurs, Carrasco can serve the final 4 games of his suspension whilst the other 4 starters pitch on regular rest.

You could say this leaves them shorthanded for the next four games but, if they're going to spot start Kluber on Weds anyway and keep Myers on the roster, they'd be shorthanded in any case for those 4 games.

So, the rotation would be as follows: -

Today - Jimenez
Mon - Masterson
Tues - McAllister
Weds - Kluber
Fri - Kazmir
Sat - Masterson
Sun - McAllister
Mon - Jimenez
Tues - Carrasco

Job done! Although, granted, this is prefaced on the idea that they're prepared to DL Myers straight away.
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Re: As Expected

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:56 am

Well, Fernando Nieve has been called up and Myers placed on the DL.

That's a wasted opportunity in my eyes.

With Myers hurt and Jimenez & Kazmir major question marks, the sooner you can get Carrasco back as an option the better.... I thought this was a great chance to do it.
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Re: As Expected

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:03 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Well, Fernando Nieve has been called up and Myers placed on the DL.

That's a wasted opportunity in my eyes.

With Myers hurt and Jimenez & Kazmir major question marks, the sooner you can get Carrasco back as an option the better.... I thought this was a great chance to do it.


Needed somebody in case Jimenez gives you 2.2 IP today.

Might see them send Nieve down, activate Albers, and bring up Carrasco tomorrow.
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Re: As Expected

Unread postby noles1 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:08 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Well, Fernando Nieve has been called up and Myers placed on the DL.

That's a wasted opportunity in my eyes.

With Myers hurt and Jimenez & Kazmir major question marks, the sooner you can get Carrasco back as an option the better.... I thought this was a great chance to do it.


Agree. Was even wondering if they could just wait thru this game and then retroactive Myers with Carrasco's call up, although I am not sure that would have worked out for Carrasco's suspension till he was actually up.

Huge start for Ubaldo today. No clue what they do if he bombs against a garbage Houston lineup.
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Re: As Expected

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:10 pm

noles1 wrote:Huge start for Ubaldo today. No clue what they do if he bombs against a garbage Houston lineup.


I guess. I might actually think it's worse if that shit lineup doesn't do much with his 90mph slop and someone assumes he's actually improving.

Because it will happen if he wins 5-2 with absolutely nothing changing except the hitters.
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Re: As Expected

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:20 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
dazindiansfanuk wrote:Well, Fernando Nieve has been called up and Myers placed on the DL.

That's a wasted opportunity in my eyes.

With Myers hurt and Jimenez & Kazmir major question marks, the sooner you can get Carrasco back as an option the better.... I thought this was a great chance to do it.


Needed somebody in case Jimenez gives you 2.2 IP today.

Might see them send Nieve down, activate Albers, and bring up Carrasco tomorrow.


Problem with that is, calling Carrasco up tomorrow instead of today means they'd need Kluber for a 2nd start and thus would be playing shorthanded for the full 8 games and not just 4.

I don't see them going with the 6 man pen for 8G, or the 3-man bench (especially with AC banged up).
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:31 pm

Not that we have a lot of options, and not bashing anybody wanting to bring Carrasco back up but are we really going to put ourselves in a vulnerable position for a kid who has proven that as of right now just doesnt get it. Should we expect him to have had a sudden change of heart/brain/maturity in like a week that all of a sudden the team can actually rely on him. Then again I mean he cant be that dumb to do it again can he? Its not like he has ever hit somebody & got suspended then came up and hit somebody right after the suspension....oh wait ;-) ;) :wink:

Plus if we bring him right back up, there are no immediate ramifications to his actions.....well that is outside of the next guy he hits cleaning his clock. I mean we need to do something to try to get through to him, maybe forcing him to stay down in triple A can get through to him somehow(however small a chance there is of that happening.


Then again if we actually want to try to win, he is better than Ubaldo& prob Myers and Kluber right now too(at least he has a higher ceiling than they do)
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Re: As Expected

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:33 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Problem with that is, calling Carrasco up tomorrow instead of today means they'd need Kluber for a 2nd start and thus would be playing shorthanded for the full 8 games and not just 4.

I don't see them going with the 6 man pen for 8G, or the 3-man bench (especially with AC banged up).


They've been extremely smart with the roster decisions so far. I have full trust in them to get this right at the best possible time.
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Re: As Expected

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:35 pm

peeker643 wrote:
noles1 wrote:Huge start for Ubaldo today. No clue what they do if he bombs against a garbage Houston lineup.


I guess. I might actually think it's worse if that shit lineup doesn't do much with his 90mph slop and someone assumes he's actually improving.

Because it will happen if he wins 5-2 with absolutely nothing changing except the hitters.


This.

Even if he pitched a good game against Detroit or somebody, it wouldn't change a thing. He has to string together four or five consistently good outings, no matter who they're against, before it means anything. And even then, all it takes is one inning for him to completely fall apart and start throwing BP.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:20 pm

Great thing about Ubaldo starts is that if you've got some running around to do and you don't get in front of the TV till an hour and a half after the start, you still only miss an inning or two.

Look, ring me when Ubaldo is throwing an "easy" 94-95, and touches 96-97. Until then it's a waste of time.

It's really that simple.

Francona is saying what he has to say, but really, there's nothing anyone needs to "figure out" here. Arm comes back good. Status quo horrible.

And based on how these things go....
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:39 pm

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Not that we have a lot of options, and not bashing anybody wanting to bring Carrasco back up but are we really going to put ourselves in a vulnerable position for a kid who has proven that as of right now just doesnt get it. Should we expect him to have had a sudden change of heart/brain/maturity in like a week that all of a sudden the team can actually rely on him. Then again I mean he cant be that dumb to do it again can he? Its not like he has ever hit somebody & got suspended then came up and hit somebody right after the suspension....oh wait ;-) ;) :wink:

Plus if we bring him right back up, there are no immediate ramifications to his actions.....well that is outside of the next guy he hits cleaning his clock. I mean we need to do something to try to get through to him, maybe forcing him to stay down in triple A can get through to him somehow(however small a chance there is of that happening.


Then again if we actually want to try to win, he is better than Ubaldo& prob Myers and Kluber right now too(at least he has a higher ceiling than they do)



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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:36 am

Yeah, they don't want to bring him up now. The only reason he was up before was because Kazmir got hurt.

If Ubaldo continues to implode, or if Kazmir proves he's toast, or if Myers' injury turns into a long term deal, then they almost have no choice but to bring up Kluber, Bauer, or Carrasco, and they very likely will need more than one. So what's worse - going with 7 relievers instead of 8 for eight games, or watching your starting pitcher get hammered every fifth day?
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:12 am

Look, you guys are missing the point on Carrasco.

Not only is he an immature prick, but he's not capable of pitching at the ML level right now. Is he a better option to "figure it out" topside than someone like Nieve or Kluber? Maybe. But right now, you're going to get similar results with all 3 of them until Carrasco gets his actual baseball shit together.

He needs to stay in AAA, regain his form, and then come up and serve the suspension mid season. No point in taking your poison pill just to have him go out and blow up the bullpen when he's not pitching well and has been sitting for 10 days.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:22 am

Nieve DFA'd. Fat Albers back with the ballclub.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby 7foot3 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:44 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:he's not capable of pitching at the ML level right now. ...He needs to stay in AAA, regain his form


Except it looks like he's too good for AAA right now. It's only 10 innings, but he's struck out 12 and only allowed 3 baserunners.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:02 am

Myers will be out at least a month. Kazmir struggled in his first start and nobody knows if he can pitch in the majors. We'll find out soon. Kluber has good stuff but hasn't been consistent.

They may not have the luxury of waiting until July to bring up Carrasco and/or Bauer.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:13 pm

Carrasco was struck in the elbow by a line drive and is said to be "in considerable pain." Was taken to the hospital for x-rays, but there is no word yet as to the results. Can't say it sounds promising, though. :pb:
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:16 pm

Adverb Harry wrote:Carrasco was struck in the elbow by a line drive and is said to be "in considerable pain." Was taken to the hospital for x-rays, but there is no word yet as to the results. Can't say it sounds promising, though. :pb:


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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:56 am

Cavs hire Mike Brown
Browns new owner under federal investigation
Indians get their 2nd best SP prospect lasered by baseball

What's next?

Browns trade up to take Geno and/or T'eo?
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:21 am

A comment from Tony Lastoria in response to one of his articles about the injury

""Tony
April 25, 2013 - 11:50 PM EDT
I've heard some pretty gruesome reports. Some saying it is the worst non-head injury on the mound they have ever seen. I am hopeful that this is all just a big injury scare. He threw a 96 MPH fastball that came right back at him and got him squarely on the elbow....and heard it bent back awkwardly. Might be a dislocation, fracture since his arm was dangling badly after. Or, it could (hopefully) be nothing. Let's hope for the best.""

Does not sound good.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:11 am

dazindiansfanuk wrote:A comment from Tony Lastoria in response to one of his articles about the injury

""Tony
April 25, 2013 - 11:50 PM EDT
I've heard some pretty gruesome reports. Some saying it is the worst non-head injury on the mound they have ever seen. I am hopeful that this is all just a big injury scare. He threw a 96 MPH fastball that came right back at him and got him squarely on the elbow....and heard it bent back awkwardly. Might be a dislocation, fracture since his arm was dangling badly after. Or, it could (hopefully) be nothing. Let's hope for the best.""

Does not sound good.


That's awesome stuff as usual from Tony.

He has it pinned down to either catastrophic or nothing. He's perfect for STO/Fox, really. I mean, perfect.

Oh... and as to to Carrasco? Karma.

Actually funny to me. I like to believe there's ultimately a cost to being an immature, head-hunting asshole and I have to imagine there are a lot of AL players laughing a little bit this morning over the news.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:18 am

Seems like we don't have to worry about that suspension any time soon.
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Re: As Expected...

Unread postby skatingtripods » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:34 am

Indians reporting it as a "deep bruise", presumably a bone bruise. Pretty lucky, since Lastoria had us believing Carrasco's arm nearly fell off and spontaneously burst into flames.

Of course, it'll be a few days until the swelling goes down and they'll have to take another look then.
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