2014 Recruiting

[furls]

Finally got around to tossing a sticky on this thread. I just hate doing it because it is like acknowledging that I am a year older. I am going to leave the 2013 stickied until the end of camp so we can track the rumors on who is doing what heading into the season.

[pod2dawg]

How long until Saban, Les, Muschamp, Hoke (lol) and others try to flip him? Ohio kid so hopefully less drama than the EzE saga.

Throw in Kelley & Kiffin too. Recruiting is off the hook as the $takes are bigger than ever ($$$$).

It is "big boy pants " time. Urban getting reintroduced into the soup has made it "hotter" than ever.

There is no etiquette. WAR.

Flippin is "in."

Don't matter who you are , who your childhood dream team has been, who you verbaled to...if the big boys think you have the skills , THEY WILL COME......it's worth a try.

I don't like Hoke. But don't be too hasty in underestimating his recruiting ability. Take a look at his "O" line "gets" this year. And as we celebrate our class this year, let's not forget scUM was ahead of us all the way till the "Bell" sounded, and we nipped them.

It's 10;55 am on the 18th and Mich. still sucks.

[neoleo]

I don't like Hoke. But don't be too hasty in underestimating his recruiting ability. Take a look at his "O" line "gets" this year. And as we celebrate our class this year, let's not forget scUM was ahead of us all the way till the "Bell" sounded, and we nipped them.

It's 10;55 am on the 18th and Mich. still sucks.

Their class ranking was propped up by o-lineman and an overrated QB. Of course lineman are important but they got like 7 of them.

They've lacked in offensive playmakers for almost a decade now (outside of Robinson) and the only one they got was a big back that OSU passed on in Green (potential to be very good, but his weight will always be a concern and he's not a gamebreaker).

They stole Thomas out of Alliance on D, but outside of him they don't really have anybody that Meyer wanted. Just look at the Ohioans they took, Charlton, McCray, Douglas - none of them had OSU offers. I believe Gedeon did (and I would have taken him), but he was lower on the list for OSU and I wouldn't trade him for either of the LB's we ended up landing.

It sounds like sour grapes coming from an OSU fan I guess, but to me nothing much has changed with their recruiting this year. Take a bunch of regional recruits and beat the rest of the Big 10 for the Ohioans that OSU didn't offer. That's not gonna cut it. They need to get back to having national draw and beating OSU for the top Ohioans if they ever want to get back to national relevance.

[e0y2e3]

Hoke straight up beat Meyer on Gedeon (similar to Ferns in 2014).

Meyer would have loved to have had Thomas and McCray did eventually get a very committable offer. Outside of that the only overlap in the class was Conley and some O-Line offers. Also I recently saw an article on Rivals where it showed how like the first 10 commits for Hoke were top 100 in the nation kids and almost every single one of them dropped 50+ spots during their senior year. Only Dawson moved up.

[danwismar]

Two straight years now Michigan has killed it with O-Line recruiting...the Buckeyes wish they had half that much depth. But you can only play five guys. And they have clearly upgraded what has been a bad linebacking situation for them with the help of Ohioans like Gedeon and Ferns and McCray. Still I don't see the speed at LB that OSU has brought in with the likes of Perkins, Johnson, Mitchell etc. And their DB's and DL recruits aren't the equal of OSU's, as far as I can see from film and rankings.

Lee is right about their kids dropping in the rankings, but to be fair, part of that is the annual and predictable drop that happens with a lot of early commits. Late in the recruiting season, uncommitted kids rise up the rankings and long-committed kids drop. It's good for business.

Meyer made the point in his post-signing day press conference. Imagine if Marshall or Bosa or Burrows had waited till Feb 6 to announce on TV. You would have had a ticker-tape parade in Columbus for that.

[e0y2e3]

True, some committed kids drop just because they are out of the spotlight, that said you could make a very strong argument that their biggest drop (Morris from 16 to 81 on Rivals) should have fallen even further. It's pretty hard to imagine someone having a worse senior season/All Star Game performance while still staying in the top 100.

[furls]

I am going to go ahead an chime on scUM's class too. In the interest of full disclosure, please have a look at my avatar; it is not new. I have had the same avatar for about 5 years here. I hate them and I dislike their recruiting class too.

scUM is recruiting an offense that mirror's Wisco's. It is nice for winning 6 conference games per year and beating crappy noncons, but not much else.
-OL: They are recruiting some mammoth, plodding guys. Most would be recruited as guards by tOSU. That does not stack up well against elite pass rushers. At the NCAA level, elite outside rushers dominate big OL. See the 2006 NCG, the difference is even more pronounced than college.
-RB: They have successfully recruited two RBs with completely overlapping skill sets this year. Both have a ceiling in the ball park of Montee Ball. Nice celing, but again, unless you can get the ball to playmakers you are stuck being Wisco. Still no game breaker at RB. Green is a nice back but the fact that OSU led for him and just stopped recruiting him tells the story about him.
-WR: Wisco's best WR was a walk on (Abrederis is on schollie now) and scUM is recruiting WRs that make that a possibility for them as well. They have no viable outside threat.
-QB: Speight is very similar in size and mobility and arm strength to Ryan Mallett. I actually like that addition.

All in all their 2013, class just doesn't have a single guy that you put the ball in his hands and worry about seeing him in the endzone 80 yards later. They are going to be playing within 10 yards of the LOS all game, a strategy that CANNOT work against the top NCAA D's.

Defensively, I like some of their players, but don't love any of them from except Thomas. Thomas will make plays for scUM. It would be interesting to see where he would have fit into tOSU's secondary. I like Jayme Thompson, but I may have traded Thompson or Worley for him. That said, word on the street is that tOSU has a very real shot at landing Quinn Blanding, a guy that is actually probably better than Vonn Bell!

-Their DL recruiting is ordinary. I will say, Charlton did put together a hell of a senior season. He was the "anti-Shane Morris." Not the kind of guys that make you worried about them getting a pass rush with 4 for sure.
-LB recruiting was good not great. Nice players. My favorite of the group Lee mentioned is Gedeon. I think there is a Jake Ryan feel to him. I think McCray is overrated. I like Ferns, but I would not trade him for any of the guys that tOSU leads for in 2014 (McMillan, Garrett, Booker and Berger), but he would be #5 on my list and I would not be upset if he flipped to tOSU.
-Secondary recruiting was awful except Thomas. Losing Conley was a bigger deal for scUM than gaining him was for tOSU (by far).

So if you look at it, as objectively as I can, you have an O that wins by physically dominating smaller, weaker teams (see Wisconsin) but has very little capacity for big plays against teams at parity. You have an ordinary D with a susceptiblity to the big play due to a weak secondary and poorish pass rush. I just reeks of Wisconsin to me.

As for the recruits dropping, i found that very interesting this year.
-Jalin Marshall was a 5* early but dropped like a rock due to a bad 40 at the opening (4.60) and he did come up some based on some great returns on the National All Star CKT.
-Shane Morris was awful anytime he played against decent competition. St. Ignatius made him their bitch. He was AWFUL at the all star game and in practice. He was also embarrassed at the Elite 11 camps. Malik Zaire, ND commit was extremely impressive at the same camps and is still below Morris. My scUM friend, who follows recruiting very closely, has already given up on Morris and is now hoping for a Gardner medical RS for 2014 and Speight after that.
-There is a very strong tendency for recruit rankings to change based on a players commitment status. If Bosa is still uncommitted in Feb, he is a 5*. If Bell commits in April he likely falls to 4*. It is garbage, but it is the truth, the hype drives the rankings and once a recruit commits (solidly) the hype often dies.

Interesting thing to look at in the rankings is how many guys are at the 4* to 5* thresh-hold (very high 4*'s). 247 uses a 100 point scale and ranks 5* as 98 or better, 4* 90 to 97. 247 uses a composite system to aggregate the rankings and it is IMO the best overall ranking. Here are the top tOSU guys:
-98: Jalin Marshall
Vonn Bell
Joe Bosa
-97: Cam Burrows
Eli Apple
Zeke Elliot
Mike Mitchell
Dontre Wilson
-96: Evan Lisle
Marcus Baugh

I cannot remember a year when tOSU landed so many guys that were that highly rated. This also does not account for a couple of guys that committed before the hype and didn't hit the camp circuit that hard like Billy Price and Tracy Sprinkle.

[e0y2e3]

I generally agree, but Bosa dropped due to the concussions ruining half of his senior season and not doing enough at the ASG to make up for it, ehereas Bell was so good at the UA Game Rivaks had to bump hik roughly 100 spots

[jb]

I generally agree, but Bosa dropped due to the concussions ruining half of his senior season and not doing enough at the ASG to make up for it, ehereas Bell was so good at the UA Game Rivaks had to bump hik roughly 100 spots

He should have risen by now going as "Joe" rather than "Joey".

Any grown man that goes by "Joey" is either a Guido or has the IQ of a ground squirrel. If there is a difference in that distinction.

[pod2dawg]

Why not just call him jb? :)

[jb]

Why not just call him jb? :)

cause, like, there's no 6 star rating.

[pod2dawg]

^^^^^ Touche!!

[jclvd_23]

Per Bill Greene, Alabama has just offered the Glenville "Big Three" of Jones, Smith, and Lattimore.

The Urban and Saban war will be fun these next couple of years.

[pod2dawg]

^^^^^ Oh boy, Big Boy Pants time.

Anybody have any predictions on how this one rolls?

[danwismar]

Jones, of course, is already committed(FWIW) and it would be a shocker if Lattimore ended up anywhere but Columbus. I have no idea where Smith's preferences are, but most people are penciling him in as a Buckeye too.

[e0y2e3]

All three are Buckeyes

[e0y2e3]

Also, yall can kill the Blanding dream. He's announcing 2/27 and hasn't visited yet.

Meyer finished a solid #2 here, but yeah, it was #2 for the best DB recruit in three years.

[Love child of shawn kemp]

I was at a scouting combine/showcase thing in Cincinnati this past weekend and got to see Jamarco Jones, Malik McDowell, Dylan Thompson, Clifton Garrett and others in action. Was fun to see some one on ones with Dylan and Malik against Jamarco. Dylan Thompson is a big dude, and very quick off the ball. Alot of his one on one reps ended up being ball is snapped, he launches, sidestep past the lineman and hits the cone/QB. Although Jamarco and Dylan were pretty even in their battles.

[furls]

Also, yall can kill the Blanding dream. He's announcing 2/27 and hasn't visited yet.

Meyer finished a solid #2 here, but yeah, it was #2 for the best DB recruit in three years.

Given last year's epic national DB class (and this year's which is almost as good) that is a strong, but true statement. Blanding was probably the real #1 player in 2014. The DE will get the ranking but Blanding is as good as it gets. UVA is lucky to get him.

Jones is going to be a good one and right now the Bucks are probably out to a decent lead. Haven't seen much on Thompson yet, but the reviews from the combine were good. McDowell is supposed to be a good one as well, but is supposed to be pretty an inconsistent effort guy. Garrett was supposedly very impressive as well.

[jclvd_23]

Also, yall can kill the Blanding dream. He's announcing 2/27 and hasn't visited yet.

Meyer finished a solid #2 here, but yeah, it was #2 for the best DB recruit in three years.

Any thoughts on the DB from NJ, Peppers? I've heard several say he would have been the top DB in last years class and he might have a shot at overtaking Hand for the overall #1 spot this year.

Thought a Peppers/Webb/Nicholson/Blanding/Smith DB class would have been off the charts. Could also add Lattimore to that if you see him as a DB.....that's a crazy amount of talent, especially if added to this year's class of DB's.

[danwismar]

That would be a sick secondary even without Blanding or Peppers. Peppers says his top five is Stanford, OSU, Alabama, Michigan and ND. Here's some of what he said in a recent interview:

“I love the academic standpoint of it (Stanford),” Peppers said. “If something does happen that I do get injured, with a degree from Stanford I could pretty much do whatever I want to do and live happily and support my family for the rest of my life, not to mention they proved they could play with the big boys.

“They’re constantly a top 25 team in the country, and you can’t go wrong. It’s out in Cali. I’m taking a visit out there.”

For many of the reasons Peppers likes Stanford, he is also giving Notre Dame a lot of consideration.

“Notre Dame is basically the same as Stanford,” Peppers said. “It’s life after football. The people you’re going to meet there, the people who went there …and the numbers don’t lie. They had a bit of an off night in the national championship game, but the numbers don’t like.”

Peppers wasn’t giving Ohio State a long look until recently, which is when the Buckeyes increased their pursuit of him.

“It’s true what they say about coach Urban Meyer,” Peppers said. “He knows what he’s doing, he’s a proven winner, it’s a prestigious campus, one of the biggest campuses we have in the country, one of the top alumni bases.

“I really like the secondary coach in coach Kerry Coombs. He seems like a real good guy. He reminds me of my old secondary coach, Bill Tierney, when I was at Don Bosco. They are constantly reaching out to me and showing me love. Their fans are showing me love. It’s going to be interesting.”

Ironically, Peppers is giving Ohio State a strong look despite it being the rival of the program he few up following.

“I grew up a Michigan fan,” he said. “Michigan is always going to be in the mix.”

However, Peppers added his fondness for Michigan while growing up will not be a factor.

[jb]

That would be a sick secondary even without Blanding or Peppers. Peppers says his top five is Stanford, OSU, Alabama, Michigan and ND. Here's some of what he said in a recent interview:

“I love the academic standpoint of it (Stanford),” Peppers said. “If something does happen that I do get injured, with a degree from Stanford I could pretty much do whatever I want to do and live happily and support my family for the rest of my life, not to mention they proved they could play with the big boys.

“They’re constantly a top 25 team in the country, and you can’t go wrong. It’s out in Cali. I’m taking a visit out there.”

For many of the reasons Peppers likes Stanford, he is also giving Notre Dame a lot of consideration.

“Notre Dame is basically the same as Stanford,” Peppers said. “It’s life after football. The people you’re going to meet there, the people who went there …and the numbers don’t lie. They had a bit of an off night in the national championship game, but the numbers don’t like.”

Peppers wasn’t giving Ohio State a long look until recently, which is when the Buckeyes increased their pursuit of him.

“It’s true what they say about coach Urban Meyer,” Peppers said. “He knows what he’s doing, he’s a proven winner, it’s a prestigious campus, one of the biggest campuses we have in the country, one of the top alumni bases.

“I really like the secondary coach in coach Kerry Coombs. He seems like a real good guy. He reminds me of my old secondary coach, Bill Tierney, when I was at Don Bosco. They are constantly reaching out to me and showing me love. Their fans are showing me love. It’s going to be interesting.”

Ironically, Peppers is giving Ohio State a strong look despite it being the rival of the program he few up following.

“I grew up a Michigan fan,” he said. “Michigan is always going to be in the mix.”

However, Peppers added his fondness for Michigan while growing up will not be a factor.

This kid is way too balanced and has far too mature of a perspective to be any good.

[e0y2e3]

Any thoughts on the DB from NJ, Peppers? I've heard several say he would have been the top DB in last years class and he might have a shot at overtaking Hand for the overall #1 spot this year.

Thought a Peppers/Webb/Nicholson/Blanding/Smith DB class would have been off the charts. Could also add Lattimore to that if you see him as a DB.....that's a crazy amount of talent, especially if added to this year's class of DB's.

Peppers is a freak and will be a stud according to, well, everyone. I'm just still hung up on Blanding showing up at The Opening (the most prestigious camp event of the year) as one of three juniors invited and locking down players at corner.

I haven't seen Peppers in that kind of an environment, so who knows....

(Hand also showed up and was a monster, I'd like to personally thank scUMs D-Line coach, a bonafide recruiting stud, for heading to Oklahoma, the him and Mattison combo was an issue)

[jclvd_23]

Quin Blanding verballed to Virginia today. Multiple sources reporting tOSU finished second.

I'm pretty sure it's not over at this point, with him being such an early verbal. A lot of very good recruits in Virginia this year I'd like to see tOSU in on. Definitely a player Urban will keep recruiting until the end, and with Urban, there's always a chance.

[e0y2e3]

Blanding is extremely solid. Only way he goes is if London gets fired after next year (which isn't out of the realm of possibility).

[furls]

So I finally had some time to watch some Jalen Hurd highlights, like really watch them not just "skim" them as I had in the past.

My initial impression was that he was a very fast runner with some power and basically outran angles. I really liked him, but did not love him. He kind of reminded me of Ty Isaacs. That wasn't far from accurate, but it really falls short.

Here are my updated observations:
-The kid is BIG already, but is really thin. He has the frame to easily (and probably will) add 20lbs without losing any athleticism. When you watch his film, he doesn't look like his listed 225, he looks like he is about 190. I know coaches and recruits lie, but the lowest listed height/weight I could find on the kid was 6'3 210. He may actually outgrow RB (at least in the classical sense)!
-He cuts at full speed, does not slow down going in or coming out of his preferred/featured cut, the jump cut (L1/R1 on Madden). He just explodes into and out of the cut.
-He hits the hole, no matter how small hard and shows great vision.
-Shows good hands and actually caught a lot of passes.
-He is fast as hell. He claims a 4.37 and I am skeptical of that number, but 4.4 is probably not off by much.
-He accelerates like Robert Smith and rewatching his highlights very closely, that is who he reminds me of; except he will be much larger than Smith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfsP9fFfzv4

I really like the run that starts about 3:50 where he basically makes about 4 dudes miss while cutting at full speed. Something else that is interesting about this kid, is that for such a tall RB he hits the hole with great pad level. Most of the time when I hear about a 6'3 back, I am expecting to see an Eddie George or Eric Dickerson upright runner. Not in this case. He does get upright, when he is streaking down the field at max speed, but when he is anticipating contact he gets those pads low!

I am definitely pretty excited that tOSU looks to be leading this race by a large margin. Hurd would be a great compliment to 'Zeke. It is pretty obvious why this kid is a top 15 in the nation recruit on every board.

[furls]

More information on Jalen Hurd, cut and pasted from 11W:

247Sports Rank #2 RB and Composite #3 RB. Rivals Rank: #15 overall player. Jalen rushed for a state record 3,357 yards and 43 touchdowns in 2012 while his Yards Per Carry: 10.59 and Rushing Yards Per Game: 239.8 and was named "Mr. Football" in Tennessee.

[furls]

Interesting stuff from Rivals:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/video/recruitin ... er-1113365

Woody Wommack says, "tOSU could be the team to beat."

That would be nice. I have heard they are in early, but I have no idea if they are the team to beat. Sure would be nice! Tell you what, if tOSU jumps out to a 25-0 start and a NCG berth we will see tOSU recruiting in 2014/15 go to an even higher level (and it is pretty ridiculous now). Looking at next year's schedule, I don't think 13-0 is outrageous.

[e0y2e3]

OSU has only offered three kids at that school....

The first step to getting Carter is to get Autry locked up (which hopefully happens shortly after his spring visit). Then you let him finish the work on Carter.

The fact that it is incredibly obvious Paris Cambell is going to outgrow the slot position before he steps foot on campus leaves room for Autry.

[Bayou Tribe]

DeShone Kizer, QB
Toledo, OH
6'4" 205

What's the consensus on this kid? LSU and Bama have offered him in the last two weeks. Actually, he was the first QB that Cam Cameron offered since he took the OC job at LSU. Is he any good?

[furls]

DeShone Kizer, QB
Toledo, OH
6'4" 205

What's the consensus on this kid? LSU and Bama have offered him in the last two weeks. Actually, he was the first QB that Cam Cameron offered since he took the OC job at LSU. Is he any good?

Good player. Very Athletic. Surprisingly, he is nowhere near tOSU's RADAR. Most are speculating that the offers are committable pending throwing there in person or that they are actually looking at Kizer as a WR (whether Kizer knows that or not). He has a decent arm, but is still a pretty one dimensional running QB right now. If he were Braxton Miller mobile that would be one thing, but who is? I think there are alot better options for LSU.

The Buckeyes are all in on Deshaun Watson right now with Barker and Henderson likely to get offers if they throw well in camps this summer and tOSU starts giving up on flipping Watson. I think JT Barrett is giving the freedom to go big or hold out at QB.

[e0y2e3]

Kizer is Swoopes Jr.

Lower ceiling than Swoopes, meh to feh passer, not very impressive on film and very athletic.

He's in OSU's third group of QB candidates and won't even sniff an offer. This Bama offer is in no way committable. Reminds me of when Trubisky had OSU and Bama offers and ended up at NC. That wasn't by choice....

[furls]

Lee is spot on. I think Kizer could be a decent MAC QB, but could be a BCS level WR. It would be a project to get him there, that is why the 'Bama/LSU stuff is a bit perplexing. He is a good player, just not for a school with a lot of options. I think he would be a nice pick up for Purdue/NW/IU maybe even Wisco or Sparty, but LSU or 'Bama? They don't have to gamble on a kid like this.

[Bayou Tribe]

"Perplexing" is a great word for LSU's recent history at QB, so it all makes sense in its own completely unsensible way now.

[danwismar]

Revised Scout 100 for 2014

http://recruiting.scout.com/2/1272514.html

[furls]

Scout's national stuff is a joke. They have some decent guys in the midwest, but their national stuff has really suffered and is becoming laughable. Their 2013 team rankings that have 'Bama #8? With that class? Seriously?

scUM #1? Shane Morris is the #3 QB? Derrick Green #1 RB, yet no one was willing to hold a scholly for him after October? Scout is about as bad as ESPN now nationally.

[e0y2e3]

I'm fine w/ Green at #1.

That said, yeah, Scout is in danger of being passed by ESPN nationally. It's amazing that their Mid-West group is so good but their other regions so bad (whoever does their Mid-Atlantic scouting is seemingly non-existent, as their per-capita for not even bothering to rank kids from ND to NC is unreal).

Every service has strong regions and week regions (pre-Givler Rivals was terrible in Ohio for example), but man, Scout just has some HUGE holes.

[furls]

Teams just don't fill up at RB and leave the #1 guy in the country out there. Door closed all around Derrick Green all year as teams liked other guys better.

[furls]

Drake Harris (top 50 WR) decommits from Sparty today. He was trending away from Sparty, and he does have strong interest in tOSU. My dream WR set is Harris and Thompson, but there are many others that favor the Bucks more.

[furls]

Jalen Hurd to Tennessee in what has to be considered a shocker, not just for location but also for timing. I would've thought he would've taken more visits, but in the end, I guess he knew what he wanted and picked it.

[furls]

Urban Meyer doing work today. Knox and Gresham (UT commits) in Columbus on an unofficial despite Mack Brown's no visit policy. I would say this is a pretty big deal. Knox is a top 50-100 player at OG/OT. Gresham is a bit of a "meh" guy.

Oh yeah, and Dylan Thompson committed today. Thompson is a 3-4* DT recruit, but I am not really concerned about the number of stars. The fact that he had a committable offer from Meyer this early in the year is all you really need to know. They have been recruiting the kid hard for a while, so he is obviously at the top of their board.

[danwismar]

The Scout insiders are saying that Kyle Berger's visit went very well, and his decision to commit early bodes well for OSU.

[pod2dawg]

The Scout insiders are saying that Kyle Berger's visit went very well, and his decision to commit early bodes well for OSU.

Wis, any more info on the Berger "watch" ?

[danwismar]

Looks like it will come down to OSU or Michigan. Too soon to tell. There are so many LB's in play that they like (Booker, McMillan, Garrett, now Winovich) and they already have one (Hubbard) in the class...so any one of them isn't crucial...although they'd love to keep the Iggy kid at home.

[e0y2e3]

Don't count Hubbard as an LB. He's coming in strictly as an athlete that they will sort out where to put later (per his own words). Could play anywhere from Star to DE to Flex TE.

OSU had a GREAT week last week with the Georgia kids, FWIW.

Also, Berger is holding steady on a May announcement. Looks like one more visit for OSU and scUM before he pulls the trigger (Winovich strikes me as a Berger hedge offer).

[e0y2e3]

Well, Berger just said on Twitter he committed. So that seems to be that.

[furls]

Nice. Got a feeling about that kid.

[jb]

Nice. Got a feeling about that kid.

I will say again, he's very similar to Jake Ryan in HS.

[furls]

Nice. Got a feeling about that kid.

I will say again, he's very similar to Jake Ryan in HS.

I have heard/seen on highlights that he is a better athlete. To me he looks more like McVey, who would have probably been a pretty good player if not for the chronic injuries.

The kids TFL (44 against St. Iggy's schedule?) numbers last year are ridiculous and there are rumors that he was #2 on the staff's board at LB, second only to Raekwon.

[jb]

Nice. Got a feeling about that kid.

I will say again, he's very similar to Jake Ryan in HS.

I have heard/seen on highlights that he is a better athlete. To me he looks more like McVey, who would have probably been a pretty good player if not for the chronic injuries.

The kids TFL (44 against St. Iggy's schedule?) numbers last year are ridiculous and there are rumors that he was #2 on the staff's board at LB, second only to Raekwon.

McVey was more of a bullet. definately a back 7 / 8 player. He was a competitive state-level sprint athlete in track and when you run down Glenville kids you have big time wheels. I always saw McVey transitioning to star at tOSU. bergetr has a much bigger frame. In a different defensive system, I could see him growing into a hybred OLB/DE much like Ryan.

I think Berger's a little faster than Ryan and has potentially more upside. He lacks McVey's top end speed and play making ability past the LOS. Berger is a REALLY effective pass rush blitzer in Kyle's 4 - 4 / 3 - 5. Make great plays behind the LOS. His game is more like Ryan's and he has that same frame. As you note, he may be a beter athlete speed-wise and reaction-wise in space than Jake.

My $ 0.02.