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SEC overrated this year?

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SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby furls » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:34 am

Let me start by saying I hate Doyel, but I think he might have a point with this article:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... -this-year

After watching Louisville shred UF in all aspects of the game, I reflected on what I have seen so far this bowl season from the SEC and I found myself thoroughly unimpressed. We all agreed that this was an epicly bad B1G this year, probably the worst we had ever seen, but did they look out of place yesterday against the SEC? Nope, granted they went 1-2, but the B1G was certainly competitive in every game.

I have said all year that I think 'Bama is the best team in the country, and I still believe that, but I think the SEC is living off its reputation (and the best team in the country this year). Thoughts?

FWIW, I think 'Bama houses ND Monday, but I am not as certain now as I was a couple of days ago.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:25 am

This is where I've been all year, particularly in regards to UF, UGA and LSU. It's tough to gauge because most the SEC teams play such patsies OOC [though in the Gators cause, the OOC games were the primary indicator.] So I back pedaled a bit when UF and USC won their rivalry games against quality opponents, but after the bowl season I'm back to where I was mid-season.

The SEC is still the best conference, but it's the best conference because it has the most good teams NOT because those teams are clearly better than the rest of the good teams around the country. Sometimes I think we/the media get this confused. And to add to that, with the dilution of the conference and the split scheduling even the 'most good teams' doesn't mean as much, as they have as many terrible teams as other conferences as well. Even in God's conference, Bama's 3rd best win is Michigan. [Just like ND]

FWIW I think ND has a good chance, but I'm a pretty big Brian Kelly fan, so that may have a lot to do with it.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:18 am

Dan Wetzel ‏@DanWetzel
So when the SEC dominates, it's bc the SEC is dominant. But when the SEC gets dominated, it's bc it wasn't motivated to play. Is that it?


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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:25 am

Definitely a down year for the SEC overall. Arkansas fell off the map after having a very good 2011 season, LSU slid, Carolina slid, Auburn and Tennessee were terrible.

Georgia has been solid the last two years, and obviously Bama is what it is (fuck those guys, btw).

I think in the next 5 years you'll continue to see the West put together 3 solid teams. Bama isn't going anywhere. LSU will continue to muddle between 9 and 10 wins per year due solely to a mind-boggling amount of in-state talent. Texas A&M will grow into a formidable national power (LSU has always pulled Texas kids due to conference affiliation). With Mack Brown slowing down and A&M having the ability to give these kids a chance to "have it all" - SEC team in Texas, they're gonna flourish.

In the East, Georgia takes the reigns by being a very good (not great) football team. Nothing elite on that side, and no reason to think that will change.
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Re: SEC overrated this year

Unread postby furls » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:46 am

I think you underestimate LSU (anti-homer bias?), but I agree with the premise of your post. I just feel like the conference is living off the reputation created by a couple of very good teams every year.

The media and the rednecks on the Finebaum show seem to conveniently forget that Vandy, Ole Miss, Auburn, MSU, Arkansas and TN are in the SEC too. I think Muschamp is in way over his head in FL., contrary to what FL fans would lead you to believe, Meyer did not leave the cupboards bare. USCe will continue to be what they have been for 20 years, a nice 9-10 win team (and 2-3rd place finisher in the east) and UGA wins by default.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby pup » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:56 am

While the $EC may be down...nobody else is up.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:02 am

You ever meet one of those Redneck TN fans? Pretty sure they think they could win the B10 and are only terrible because the SEC is so tough. I think the reason we're calling the SEC 'over-rated' is that the media swayed toward this kind notion just a little too much, [driven largely by ESPN, which has ample reason to promote it as such].
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:28 am

pup wrote:While the $EC may be down...nobody else is up.


Somehow the ACC went 2-0 in BCS bowls against the SEC.

While I agree they ACC isn't up, expect to read about that plenty going into next year (Even though Clemson and FSU had already been beaten by SEC schools and Louisville didn't play anyone worth a damn).
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby noles1 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:34 am

SEC's offenses for the most part are numbly basic and borderline hideous at times.

Defensively they are still far and away the best overall conference when it comes to that area.

I think overall the SEC title game had it right in that those are the two most balanced teams the league had to offer this year and they are both pretty damn good when totally right. That said, agree with many in the thread that the conference was overrated this year. They are still a favorite to win it all but that is more an indictment of all of college football this year being really even (and many ways average)
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:44 am

The SEC was bailed out all bowl-season long by their offenses because their defense blew ass.

And of course there was the SEC Championship game....
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Re: SEC overrated this year

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:17 pm

furls wrote:I think you underestimate LSU (anti-homer bias?), but I agree with the premise of your post. I just feel like the conference is living off the reputation created by a couple of very good teams every year.

The media and the rednecks on the Finebaum show seem to conveniently forget that Vandy, Ole Miss, Auburn, MSU, Arkansas and TN are in the SEC too. I think Muschamp is in way over his head in FL., contrary to what FL fans would lead you to believe, Meyer did not leave the cupboards bare. USCe will continue to be what they have been for 20 years, a nice 9-10 win team (and 2-3rd place finisher in the east) and UGA wins by default.



I'm sure I'll calm down as the offseason progresses, but fuck Les Miles. This is Bear Bryant vs Charlie Mac all over again. I just hope that Saban retires or dies before my sons come of age and really start following it like their ol man.


And yeah - Vandy, Kentucky, Auburn, the 2 Mississippi schools and Mizzou won't ever contribute much to the concept of being a league full of powerhouses.

Auburn, Arkansas, and Tennessee have potential, however I'm not sure any of them pulled the right strings in regards their coaching vacancies. Those teams will not sustain on in-state recruiting (Arkansas and Tennessee due to lack of talent, Auburn due to Bama having their pick), therefore they have to have the right guy in place to transcend.

Georgia, Florida, LSU and A&M are schools that have next-level capability. Only one is currently taking advantage of that. Time will tell.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby TribeinLA » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:52 pm

Yes, the SEC was overrated, but it was obviously the best conference easily. It will only get better. Texas A&M is going to turn into a titan much like it was in the mid to late 90's. The Houston and SE Texas area will be huge battling betwen LSU and A&M.

Auburn will be back. They always are. They will need 2 years.

Tennessee has NO in-state recruiting base. They will remain at the bottom until the university gets out from all of the Kiffin and Dooley debt and hire a bad ass coach. In the meantime, Vanderbilt is going to maul them for the next 3 years.

SC is who they are. They find good talent and they lose good talent, but they still have the best offensive-minded coach in the SEC.

LSU will continue to get freaks of nature and win 10-11 games, but with Les Miles, those games are going to be teeter totter as you saw in the Chic Fil A Bowl vs. Clemson. If LSU hired someone like Rich Rod (and Rich Rod matured his ass a bit), you would see some great, great offensive firepower. Next to Bama, LSU is easily the most sexy team.

Arkansas will have to rely on Springdale and come into north LA and northeast TX if they wanna play big boy ball again. Ole Miss -- same pilosophy with a differenrt recruiting realm.

Miss State is hot and cold. They have a good offensive system in play, but they're never going to win an SEC title unless they find a Cam Newton. They're basically still a doormat, as they've pretty much always been.

Georgia and Florida will continue to have big time recruiting wars and some amazing games. The two teams basically get the same amount of talent. WHoever wins that hame in '13 is going to have a legit shot at the national title pending SEC title.

Mizzou...meh.

Kentucky is about to be the most horrible SEC team to ever suit up. Those dudes just suck and they have had very subpar coaching and effort to try and place the program on the map. You beat LSU in 2007 and you would think they'd be a semi-legit 7-8 win team. No. Not even close.

The SEC will be abouot as good if not better as it was last year. It's a gauntlet...not many make it through undefeated.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby furls » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:48 pm

TribeinLA wrote:Yes, the SEC was overrated, but it was obviously the best conference easily. It will only get better. Texas A&M is going to turn into a titan much like it was in the mid to late 90's. The Houston and SE Texas area will be huge battling betwen LSU and A&M.

Auburn will be back. They always are. They will need 2 years.

Tennessee has NO in-state recruiting base. They will remain at the bottom until the university gets out from all of the Kiffin and Dooley debt and hire a bad ass coach. In the meantime, Vanderbilt is going to maul them for the next 3 years.

SC is who they are. They find good talent and they lose good talent, but they still have the best offensive-minded coach in the SEC.

LSU will continue to get freaks of nature and win 10-11 games, but with Les Miles, those games are going to be teeter totter as you saw in the Chic Fil A Bowl vs. Clemson. If LSU hired someone like Rich Rod (and Rich Rod matured his ass a bit), you would see some great, great offensive firepower. Next to Bama, LSU is easily the most sexy team.

Arkansas will have to rely on Springdale and come into north LA and northeast TX if they wanna play big boy ball again. Ole Miss -- same pilosophy with a differenrt recruiting realm.

Miss State is hot and cold. They have a good offensive system in play, but they're never going to win an SEC title unless they find a Cam Newton. They're basically still a doormat, as they've pretty much always been.

Georgia and Florida will continue to have big time recruiting wars and some amazing games. The two teams basically get the same amount of talent. WHoever wins that hame in '13 is going to have a legit shot at the national title pending SEC title.

Mizzou...meh.

Kentucky is about to be the most horrible SEC team to ever suit up. Those dudes just suck and they have had very subpar coaching and effort to try and place the program on the map. You beat LSU in 2007 and you would think they'd be a semi-legit 7-8 win team. No. Not even close.

The SEC will be abouot as good if not better as it was last year. It's a gauntlet...not many make it through undefeated.


I agree on A&M, but you also forgot about the implosion in Austin that will help them as well. ATM is now the sexiest team in the state, partly due to the SEC move, but also because Mack Brown's program is falling apart.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby pod2dawg » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:35 pm

SEC may have been down this year, but I just watched a whole bunch of SEC dudes in the Pro-Bowl.*

* I only watched the starting lineups then I turned it back to the History Channel.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:21 pm

While the SEC was not as strong top to bottom, they were still the best by a pretty wide margin.

A couple things: On A&M...it's not so much about A&M getting stronger cause of UT's recent problems....for SEC haters the real problem is A&M opening that state wider to the entire SEC.

And in regard to ACC (or other conferences) beating SEC teams in bowl games...I think a better measure would be the games which actually mean something, better said, the games when the teams are still playing for a bigger prize. That weekend in late November when FSU was supposed to get Florida and Clemson was supposed to get South Carolina. Not that these SEC teams are above anything, but you are getting a differently motivated LSU team in November than you are once they realize they gotta drag their asses to the Chik-Fil-A bowl that nobody gives a shit whether they win or lose.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby furls » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:31 pm

leadpipe wrote:While the SEC was not as strong top to bottom, they were still the best by a pretty wide margin.

A couple things: On A&M...it's not so much about A&M getting stronger cause of UT's recent problems....for SEC haters the real problem is A&M opening that state wider to the entire SEC.

And in regard to ACC (or other conferences) beating SEC teams in bowl games...I think a better measure would be the games which actually mean something, better said, the games when the teams are still playing for a bigger prize. That weekend in late November when FSU was supposed to get Florida and Clemson was supposed to get South Carolina. Not that these SEC teams are above anything, but you are getting a differently motivated LSU team in November than you are once they realize they gotta drag their asses to the Chik-Fil-A bowl that nobody gives a shit whether they win or lose.


I disagree. The SEC was considerably better at the very top, 'Bama. I was unimpressed with the rest of the league. You mean to tell me that UF was not up for its BCS bowl? I watched every SEC bowl game and they were not amazing.

Is it the best league? Yes, obviously. Is every team in the SEC capable crushing the champs from every league like some would have you believe? No.

We all know that this scUM team was not good and they should've beaten USCe. MSU played very well with UGA too. If this was one or two games, then it would be ignorable as wild data, but when coupled with the ACC and Big East wins, it sends the message that God's chosen conference was not quite as good as everyone made it out to be.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:05 pm

furls wrote:
leadpipe wrote:While the SEC was not as strong top to bottom, they were still the best by a pretty wide margin.

A couple things: On A&M...it's not so much about A&M getting stronger cause of UT's recent problems....for SEC haters the real problem is A&M opening that state wider to the entire SEC.

And in regard to ACC (or other conferences) beating SEC teams in bowl games...I think a better measure would be the games which actually mean something, better said, the games when the teams are still playing for a bigger prize. That weekend in late November when FSU was supposed to get Florida and Clemson was supposed to get South Carolina. Not that these SEC teams are above anything, but you are getting a differently motivated LSU team in November than you are once they realize they gotta drag their asses to the Chik-Fil-A bowl that nobody gives a shit whether they win or lose.


I disagree. The SEC was considerably better at the very top, 'Bama. I was unimpressed with the rest of the league. You mean to tell me that UF was not up for its BCS bowl? I watched every SEC bowl game and they were not amazing.

Is it the best league? Yes, obviously. Is every team in the SEC capable crushing the champs from every league like some would have you believe? No.

We all know that this scUM team was not good and they should've beaten USCe. MSU played very well with UGA too. If this was one or two games, then it would be ignorable as wild data, but when coupled with the ACC and Big East wins, it sends the message that God's chosen conference was not quite as good as everyone made it out to be.


Certainly it wasn't as strong, I'm just sayin' I believe Florida, for example (along with any team from any conference that had NC/Conf. Champ. aspirations) is going to give you a better game in November than they are going to give you going to a Bowl which is a step down from were they thought/wished/aspired to be.

Some middle ground here I think. Certainly not a year to "blow" the SEC for their greatness, but I'd still bet on quite a few of those teams if the season was one big conference.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby furls » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:36 pm

FWIW, lots in the B1G are butthurt over Meyer calling out the conference on its poor 2013 recruiting effort. Truth stings. When you look at what the rest of the B1G (outside of tOSU and scUM) brought in for 2013, the future of the conference does not look good.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby kman_holla8 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:56 pm

Sea Foam Green wrote: I think the reason we're calling the SEC 'over-rated' is that the media swayed toward this kind notion just a little too much, [driven largely by ESPN, which has ample reason to promote it as such].


Remember when tOSU and Tress had our 33gm winning streak snapped by Urb-dog and then the next year when LSU beat us at (their house)NGC. After that the media has been tOSU-biased. Media doesn't want to cover tOSU or the boring vest for 3rd striaght year. IMO that's when the hard-on for the SEC started. ESPN and CBS having tv deals with them doesn't help things. Now try to find any given sunday when there AREN'T 3 SEC teams in the top 10. When ranked any-state U in the nation loses on saturday they drop between 6 to 12 spots in the polls on average...When SEC team loses, they drop between 1 and 5 spots!?! (Excuses, are made on there behalf)It's disgusting. It's like Mike Slive has media pollsters on the payroll.

SEC has been over-rated the past couple of years if you ask me. The whole league play weak out of conference schedule. For Example 'Bama is still really good and deserves it's oppotunitys to play in NGC. But It's easy to play for NCG when you truly line-up cupcakes with your Out of Conference schedule,
2011: Kent St and Georiga Southern
2012: scUM (nice change of pace for them )Western KY and Western Carolina
This year upcoming:Oct 5 vs Georiga St and Nov 23 vs Chattanoga
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby furls » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:03 am

I disagree with your take, but there are some elements of truth to it.

1. The teams in the SEC that lose to each other don't fall as far because of the perception of the league it is counted as a "good loss." That inherently biases the SEC's position in the polls, like Doyel said in the article that linked.

2. There is no vast conspiracy to keep others down, just a lot of lazy folks that don't do a lot of game watching. Most of these guys get their info 2nd-3rd hand from other guys that watched the games. You just cannot watch all of college football (no matter how hard I try). This creates an environment where journalists are relying on other journalists and networks to do their work for them. I have long contended that the southern bias exists elsewhere as well in NCAAF, particularly recruiting. Why do you think tOSU did so well for so long on a combination of 3-4 star recruits? Because the recruits were underrated to start with, conversely, Southeastern recruits tend to be a bit overrated. Seriously, step back and listen to the media talk about "Southern Speed." It is like they are talking about a different species of human being. Athletes across the US share very similar DNA, the SouthEast is not so geographically isolated that specitation has occurred over the last 3 decades.

3. OSU DID NOT HAVE A 33 GAME WINNING STREAK IN 2006. OSU HAS NEVER HAD A 33 GAME WINNING STREAK. THE CLOSEST THEY HAVE HAD WAS 22 FROM 2001-2003. OSU lost 2 games in 2005, Texas and PSU.

Like I said, the SEC is the best conference in NCAAF, but the margin is not as great as the media would have you believe.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:30 pm

kman_holla8 wrote:
Sea Foam Green wrote: I think the reason we're calling the SEC 'over-rated' is that the media swayed toward this kind notion just a little too much, [driven largely by ESPN, which has ample reason to promote it as such].


Remember when tOSU and Tress had our 33gm winning streak snapped by Urb-dog and then the next year when LSU beat us at (their house)NGC. After that the media has been tOSU-biased. Media doesn't want to cover tOSU or the boring vest for 3rd striaght year. IMO that's when the hard-on for the SEC started. ESPN and CBS having tv deals with them doesn't help things. Now try to find any given sunday when there AREN'T 3 SEC teams in the top 10. When ranked any-state U in the nation loses on saturday they drop between 6 to 12 spots in the polls on average...When SEC team loses, they drop between 1 and 5 spots!?! (Excuses, are made on there behalf)It's disgusting. It's like Mike Slive has media pollsters on the payroll.

SEC has been over-rated the past couple of years if you ask me. The whole league play weak out of conference schedule. For Example 'Bama is still really good and deserves it's oppotunitys to play in NGC. But It's easy to play for NCG when you truly line-up cupcakes with your Out of Conference schedule,
2011: Kent St and Georiga Southern
2012: scUM (nice change of pace for them )Western KY and Western Carolina
This year upcoming:Oct 5 vs Georiga St and Nov 23 vs Chattanoga


You've got a couple token out of conference games each year for a few teams.

Playing cupcakes out of conference is college football.

For every conference. Clearly.

The bulk of the year is in conference. It's the best conference, thus the toughest schedule.

So, really, because Alabama played easy out of conference (like everyone else) it made it "easy" to get to the NCG by having to face Tex. A&m, UGA and LSU the last month of the season.

OK.

Much "easier" gauntlet than say, MSU, PSU and....whomever.

And My God, who do you want the TV deals to be with? Might be a good idea to cover the best football. I'd assume that's why they went there.

Look, overrated fine, but enough with the biases and all the other bullshit as reasons for their success. Producing national championships - which were earned, not talked about, and shitloads of premium players is how the reputation has been built.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby kman_holla8 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:53 pm

Okay I made a mental mistake on the 33/22 game winning streak.

Who are the 2nd and 3rd best teams in SEC?
LSU? LSU has only 351 yards of total offense vs Auburn team that finished 3-9 overall. And gave up 463 yards versus a 6-6 OleMiss team.

What about UF?
They should've lost the games vs BGSU and Mizzou, both on there home field. Games they should've won by 30.

Texas A&M
Pretty Solid Year definatly earned there Reputation

Georiga
A 5 point win vs Kentucky team winless in SEC play, and Giving up 44 to Tenneesee in Athens.

USC
Destroyed by Florida, Beaten by LSU, Didn't have to play 'Bama or Texas A&M, Gave up 35 to a 1-7 team in there own conference (Tenn). And Oh yeah possibly have top 2 picks in the nfl draft next year in Jave' Clowney and Marcus Lattimore.


I'm pointing out there flaws to show the gap the media says SEC creates is not as big as it seems. My beef is really more with the media coverage and the 24/7 news coverage where people make stuff up to talk about to fill time.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:24 pm

kman_holla8 wrote:Okay I made a mental mistake on the 33/22 game winning streak.

Who are the 2nd and 3rd best teams in SEC?
LSU? LSU has only 351 yards of total offense vs Auburn team that finished 3-9 overall. And gave up 463 yards versus a 6-6 OleMiss team.

What about UF?
They should've lost the games vs BGSU and Mizzou, both on there home field. Games they should've won by 30.

Texas A&M
Pretty Solid Year definatly earned there Reputation

Georiga
A 5 point win vs Kentucky team winless in SEC play, and Giving up 44 to Tenneesee in Athens.

USC
Destroyed by Florida, Beaten by LSU, Didn't have to play 'Bama or Texas A&M, Gave up 35 to a 1-7 team in there own conference (Tenn). And Oh yeah possibly have top 2 picks in the nfl draft next year in Jave' Clowney and Marcus Lattimore.


I'm pointing out there flaws to show the gap the media says SEC creates is not as big as it seems. My beef is really more with the media coverage and the 24/7 news coverage where people make stuff up to talk about to fill time.



Show me ANY big conference team that doesn't have a game or 2 per season that they barely squeak by. tOSU had 2 in their championship season they barely won, Cincy and Purdue. This is not helping your arguement.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby kman_holla8 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:11 pm

I got a taste of respect from the national media when we won it all 10 years ago. I have a bit too much pride for the Buckeyes team grew up following. Since the NCG loses to UF and LSU, I've been frustrated for years at media bias saying were not as good as the other (SEC or whoever) teams. Again, my beef is with the pro-media bias for SEC. It pains me to say this, but they are better then I WANT to give them credit for. I hate the SEC entitlement attitude.

But, I can't see a situation in the future where there isn't 3 SEC teams in the Top 10 at all times. Now they've won something like 7 titles in a row, It seems like it's damn near impossible to keep them from the NCG no-matter what.
"Cocaine is a hell of a drug" - Originated from a famous skit in Dave Chappelle's "Chappelle's Show". The skit would portray Rick James, usually high on cocaine, preforming doing crazy and stupid things, such as smacking Charlie Murphy in the face. Rick James would frequently explain away his actions by saying "Cocaine is a hell of a drug".
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby pup » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:32 pm

I have an idea. It is crazy, but it just might work.

Somebody beat them. Until then, there is nothing to talk about because spot for spot they are better than any other conference. Their #1 is better than any other #1 and their worst is better than anyone else's worst.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:57 pm

Perhaps they have 3 teams in the top ten annually because those three teams deserve to be in the top ten.

Crazy thought.
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:42 pm

How in the fuck is this argument still going on?
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby pup » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:23 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:How in the fuck is this argument still going on?


Fer fucksake, something we agree on.

Is that something for Ripley's or Guiness?
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Re: SEC overrated this year?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:50 pm

Wasn't sure where to put this so I'll just leave it here.

http://offthebench.nbcsports.com/2013/02/15/ohio-state-fan-pulled-over-when-police-mistake-buckeye-sticker-for-drug-symbol/

I figure the with all of the ridiculousness already in this thread it'll fit right in there.
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