New TCF Project - Best Cleveland Athletes at Every Uniform #

[swerb]

Little project we're running on the site. Running a series of 100 columns that will examine and annoint the most prolific Cleveland sports figure to wear every single uniform #, starting with 0 and going up to 99.

Want to post the options at each # in here to solicit fan feedback for the writers that will be penning these columns. Like four #'s at a time.

Here's what we got for 0 through 3.

#0/00

Indians - Junior Ortiz/Paul Dade

Cavaliers - Jeff McInnis/Darnell Jackson/CJ Miles

Dade edges Ortiz? CJ Miles wins among the Cavaliers? Dade is the choice? BRUTAL options!

#1

A decidedly weak field ...seems like a no-brainer for Avila, when the next best guy we can come up with is Casey Blake. Thinking maybe a Tribe manager of note wore #1...any help there? How many notable Tribe managers have there been in the last 50 years?

Bobby Avila - Indians - 2B - 1949-1958 - Played 10 years for the Indians, mostly at second base. His best year was in the pennant winning season of 1954, when he won the American League batting title with an BA of .341. That year he had an .880 OPS, a 6.7 WAR (3rd in AL), and finished 3rd in the AL MVP voting. Finished 2nd in AL in runs scored in 1952, and 3rd in 1954. He was a 3-time All-Star (‘52, ‘54, ‘55), and he also finished 10th in MVP voting in 1951(.304 BA, .783 OPS)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... bo01.shtml

Here’s Greg’s excellent “Blast” on Avila: http://www.theclevelandfan.com/clevelan ... obby-avila

Casey Blake - Indians - 3B - 2003-2008 - Six seasons as Indians 3B/1B/OF...batted .266, with 116 homers and 417 RBI (avg. season - 19 HR, 70 RBI). Steady, durable player, who came to be respected more by Tribe fans after he left the organization and became a valuable contributor to the Dodgers, although his offensive production for them was down from his CLE numbers.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players ... =blakeca01

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ca01.shtml

Also-rans:

Terrell Brandon - Cavaliers - PG - 1991-92 - 1996-97 - (wore #1 for first two seasons) http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... dte01.html


Daniel Gibson - Cavs – current - http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... oda01.html
Going for the cheap laugh:

Glenallen Hill - Indians – OF - http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players ... p=hillgl01

#2

Leaning towards Kyrie Irving. It's of course more of a future pick than anything, but I'm sure 2 years into his career we'd have given old #23 the nod, and we saw how that turned out. However, his 1+ season of production combined with his public embracing of the city has me leaning that direction. Plus, the other candidates are pretty underwhelming.

Other options are:

Tim Couch-always thought Couch got a raw deal here, and for the most part played his ass off while he was in town in front of the worst offensive line in the history of the NFL.

Brett Butler-only in Cleveland for 4 years (I know, two longer than Kyrie, but bear with me here). Two of those were played at an all-star level though (albeit without actually making the team). Fan favorite while he was in town.

Jhonny Peralta - Sleepwalking issues and all, he was a pretty productive SS for a couple of years there. Still, a distant 4th for me in this discussion.

#3

In the discussions of whether or not to retire a certain former Cavalier's number in Cleveland, some national pundits mocked the numbers in the rafters at the Q, as if they don't belong to exclusive enough players. The joke was that Craig Ehlo, known nationally for nothing but defending a Michael Jordan series-clinching jumper in 1989, should be next. So, for #3, we might have to do better than Ehlo.

From Ehlo to Bobby Sura to Jeff Trepagnier, right on down to Ramon sessions, and now Dion Waiters, our greatest hardwood heroes weren't assigned the number 3.

Until Derek Anderson came to town, the Browns were mostly just throwing the number at kickers. Mark Moseley wore it for three regular season games and two playoff games in 1986, and as much as he might appear to be the 2 OT hero against the Jets in the playoffs, he was 3-for-6 on 3 point attempts in that one. Special mention is due to the scabs of 1987, Brian Franco and Swedish product Goran Lingmerth.

Matt Stover makes a more interesting case than either of the big arm quarterbacks; he was here for the entire Belichick era. Truth be told, he was about as average as average gets, but he was on in 1994 with a Dawson-like 26-for-28, a playoff season. He was less than perfect in the playoffs, and never good from beyond 50.

The obvious answer here is Earl Averill. The Indians know as much, and have retired the number 3, making this a short list for the Indians. He was a .322 hitter in his 11 years with the Tribe, a 6-time All-Star who finished in the Top 4 of the MVP vote 3 times. He was also good for about 20 bombs and 100 RBI in his 11 years with the club.

[gotribe31]

First off, this is the single greatest idea I've ever heard of. Pure genius.

Second, I'd like to cast a vote for Otto Orf for his time as #00 for the championship-winning Cleveland Crunch.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Great concept. Here's some more Indians for discussion, most of them obvious.
5 Boudreau
7 Kenny
8 Belle
9 Baerga
12 Robbie
13 Omar
14 Doby
15 Sandy
19 Feller
21 Lemon
24 Manny
25 Thome
28 Blyleven
33 Murray
35 Niekro
36 Gaylord
37 Eck

[gotribe31]

Great concept. Here's some more Indians for discussion, most of them obvious.
5 Boudreau
7 Kenny
8 Belle
9 Baerga
12 Robbie
13 Omar
14 Doby
15 Sandy
19 Feller
21 Lemon
24 Manny
25 Thome
28 Blyleven
33 Murray
35 Niekro
36 Gaylord
37 Eck

So much for going 4 #'s at a time...

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

My bad, missed that part.

[gotribe31]

My bad, missed that part.

Haha, I know, I was just kidding. But it is easier to keep track if we slow-roll it.

[exiledbuckeye]

Came in here to toss out #00 Otto Orf for consideration, but see that I was beaten to it.

[googleeph2]

You are a funny guy, Al.

Great tips on Otto Orf. Naive question: assuming 00 stood for his initials?

Jersey trivia: There was a White Sox player in the 70s, Carlos May. His birthday was May 17. He wore # 17 so his birth month and day was on his jersey (May 17).

[skatingtripods]

Why isn't Luis Valbuena listed under #1?

Orf, Avila, Kyrie, Averill for me.

Think we should definitely pay homage to guys like Orf for what they did in this city. Shouldn't keep this to just the three major sports teams, though it'll be hard to find anybody other than Orf to add because guys like Jock Callander (#15), Hector Marinaro (#21) and Dave Michayluk (#27) have more common numbers. No way Callander beats out Sandy Alomar; Marinaro doesn't beat out Bob Lemon or Eric Metcalf, and I'm sure there's a #27 that would easily be above Michayluk that I can't think of right now.

[FUDU]

Even thought Feller is a HOFer, can't/shouldn't 19 belong to Bernie? I mean Feller was kind of a dick, even just a few years ago.

[gotribe31]

Even thought Feller is a HOFer, can't/shouldn't 19 belong to Bernie? I mean Feller was kind of a dick, even just a few years ago.

I love Bernie, probably more than most. But Feller is one of the best RHP of all time.

Also, you suck at going 4 at a time.

[Squints]

The only real debate her is at #2. Do you go with Kyrie's short body of work and potential, versus Butler's numbers that he did put up plus his defense. Albiet Butler is remembered as a Dodger or Brave before an Indian, but he was a productive while here and the catalyst for the only decent/memorable Tribe team of my youth. Unfortunately, I think Kyrie will be remembered for wearing another uniform beside the one he is wearing now.

Orf, Avila, Butler, Averill

[Squints]

Even thought Feller is a HOFer, can't/shouldn't 19 belong to Bernie? I mean Feller was kind of a dick, even just a few years ago.

I love Bernie, probably more than most. But Feller is one of the best RHP of all time.

Also, you suck at going 4 at a time.

It's tough not to think ahead, like the debate for #25, but I will wait.

[DrPoove]

Browns no-brainers, IMHO. And by no-brainers I mean there is no one else who played for the Browns who I think you can consider.

4 - Phil Dawson
9 - Matt Bahr
12 - Don Cockroft
13 - Frank Ryan
14 - Otto Graham (also wore 60)
17 - Brian Sipe
19 - Bernie Kosar
21 - Eric Metcalf
27 - Thom Darden
29 - Hanford Dixon
30 - Bill Willis (also wore 60)
31 - Frank Minnifield
32 - Jim Brown
33 - Reggie Rucker
34 - Greg Pruitt / Kevin Mack
36 - Marion Motley (also wore 76)
42 - Paul Warfield
43 - Mike Pruitt (honorable mention to Fair Hooker, for obvious reasons)
44 - Leroy Kelly
46 - Lou Groza (also wore 76)
49 - Bobby Mitchell
51 - Eddie Johnson
52 - Frank Gatski
56 - Dante Lavelli (also wore 86) / Chip Banks
57 - Clay Matthews
59 - Mike Johnson
60 - Otto Graham (also wore 14) / Bill Willis (also wore 30)
61 - Mike Baab
63 - Cody Risien
64 - Joe DeLamielleure
66 - Gene Hickerson
71 - Walter Johnson
72 - Jerry Sherk
73 - Joe Thomas
74 - Mike McCormack
76 - Marion Motley (also wore 36) / Lou Groza (also wore 46)
77 - Dick Schafrath
80 - Len Ford
82 - Ozzie Newsome
83 - Ricky Feacher
84 - Webster Slaughter
85 - Dave Logan
86 - Dante Lavelli (also wore 56)
88 - Reggie Langhorne
89 - Milt Morin
92 - Michael Dean Perry
99 - Orpheus Roye

Cavs:
2 - Kyrie Irving
4 - Ron Harper
5 - Steve Kerr
7 - Bingo Smith
11 - Zydrunas Ilgauskas
14 - Bobby Phills
17 - Anderson Varejao
19 - Lenny Wilkins
22 - Larry Nance
23 - LePoop
25 - Mark Price
34 - Austin Carr
42 - Nate Thurmond
43 - Brad Daugherty

I won't touch on the Tribe since someone already has.

Just for consideration.

My 10 pesos.

Dr. P

[DrPoove]

Little project we're running on the site. Running a series of 100 columns that will examine and annoint the most prolific Cleveland sports figure to wear every single uniform #, starting with 0 and going up to 99.

Want to post the options at each # in here to solicit fan feedback for the writers that will be penning these columns. Like four #'s at a time.

Here's what we got for 0 through 3.

Gotta go Otto Orf, Bobby Avila, Brett Butler (for now, will eventually be Irving) and Earl Averill. MHO.

I'm glad I didn't run over you with my truck when you ran across Detroit Avenue in Lakewood at lunchtime last week.

[gotribe31]

Sounds like Orf, Avila and Averill are pretty much unanimous. Only dissention is at #2, where I'm surprised there hasn't been a little more support for Couch.

Kyrie, Couch, Butler, or Alex Cole?

[pup]

Have to go with Kyrie at this point. Just because the list is going to have so many numbers filled with Couch/Butler types, you have to take a chance on some potential greatness.

[Squints]

where I'm surprised there hasn't been a little more support for Couch.

Kyrie, Couch, Butler, or Alex Cole?

To me, Couch is the poster child for everything that is wrong with the reboot of the Browns. Drafted too high, too many expectations that in hind sight there was no way he could live up to. Add in the fact that management surrounded him with awful skill players as well as the worst line ever- he was set up to fail and did.

I wouldn't want him anywhere where there is a "Best of All Time" list. I would rather have a decently productive leadoff hitter with a good glove who most people under the age of 35 don't even realize that he was ever an Indian.

[danwismar]

Why isn't Luis Valbuena listed under #1?

For the same reason Tony Fernandez isn't, I guess.

[danwismar]

Have to go with Kyrie at this point. Just because the list is going to have so many numbers filled with Couch/Butler types, you have to take a chance on some potential greatness.

This has merit, IMO

[gotribe31]

Have to go with Kyrie at this point. Just because the list is going to have so many numbers filled with Couch/Butler types, you have to take a chance on some potential greatness.

This has merit, IMO

Agreed. Last call for anyone other than Kyrie...

[swerb]

Yeah, my vote would be for Kyrie.

[BruceK]

Kyrie over Couch. Tim marrying a Playmate of the year is reward enough for him.

[swerb]

#5

Notes: Another apparent no-brainer for the Hall of Famer Boudreau, with a very weak cast of characters as also-rans. Complicated by the fact that the Indians retired Boudreau’s number so long ago that no modern era player has ever worn it in CLE, and it has not been a very popular number with the Browns either...I mean Jeff Garcia! Kerr and Bagley are the notable Cavs to have worn it, but like I said...no-brainer unless I missed some Browns great that wore 5.

---

Lou Boudreau - Indians player-manager during last World Series title year 1948; Baseball Hall of Fame; No. 5 retired by Indians. 7-time All-Star, was in top ten in MVP voting 8 times in 13 seasons in Cleveland. Won AL batting title in 1944 with .327 avg.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... lo01.shtml


Steve Kerr - Cavs - G - 1989-90 - 1992-93 -
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rst01.html

Jeff Garcia - Browns - QB - one year (2004) as Browns QB. Holds Browns (and tied for NFL) record for longest TD pass (99 yards to Andre Davis)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... rcJe00.htm

John Bagley - Cavs - G - 1982-83 - 1986-87
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ejo01.html

#6

Rocky Colavito?

#7

Terry Luck played quarterback for the Browns in 1977, appeared in four games with one start, but 43 of his 50 pass attempts were not intercepted. 1 was even good for a TD. It gets a little better for the Browns, when you consider the punters that donned the numbers.

Jeff Gossett had a quick approach, taking one less step get his punts off. Brecksville's own Tom Tupa was both a punter and a quarterback in the league, but his most notable Cleveland accomplishment was scoring the first two-point conversion in NFL history.

The only Cleveland Cavalier ever to wear the number 7 is Robert Bingo Smith. Bingo spent nine seasons with the Cavs and scored 10,000 points in his NBA career. He was an outside shooter, and it's been said that he would have benefitted from having a 3 point line, considering his range. He appeared in 18 playoff games, but never a Finals, which hurts him in this context because of what the Indians have going on with the #7.

In his role as a lead-off hitter, Kenny Lofton was in a class of his own. He stole 452 bases in an Indians uniform, almost twice as many as anyone else in team history, a category he led the league in for five consecutive seasons. His 160 hits in the strike-shortened 1994 season was also a league best, and his 13 triples in the abbreviated 1995 season were also an American League best. He never finished higher than fourth in the MVP vote (1994), but he did represent the Indians five times in the All-Star game, and was recognized for his outstanding defensive play in center field by earning a Gold Glove each year from 1993-1996.

Al Rosen played third base for the Tribe, was a four-time All-Star, and the 1953 MVP. He appeared in the 1948 World Series, but don't get too excited about that one plate appearance; he had 5 AB's all season. He just missed the Triple Crown in 53 with his .336 batting average missing the cut to Mickey Vernon (who hit .337).

I contemplated giving this Rosen in the upset, and his World Champion status might have given it to him, if not for how abbreviated his 1948 time with the Tribe was, so Kenny Lofton is the best Cleveland athlete to wear #7, but it's interesting.

#8

Indians
Albert Belle/Brohamer/Pytlak/Fosse/Luke Sewell/Alfredo Griffin/Von Hayes/Ray Boone/Mickey Vernon/Willie Kirkland/Ken Keltner/Rudy Regalado

Cavaliers
Lonnie Shelton/Eyenga/Pargo

Browns
Johnny Evans/Jeff Jaeger/Brad Goebel

****Belle, then Sewell if I recall; Fosse, Ray Boone, Keltner

[gotribe31]

For #6:
Rocco Domenico Colavito. Rocky first wore #38 with the Indians, but switched to #6 in 1958 and 1959. He hit 83 HR in those two seasons combined (including a league-leading 42 in 1959) and finished in the top-4 of the MVP voting in each of those seasons. He was then famously (and foolishly) traded to the Tigers for Harvey Kuenn, who'd hit 353 the season before the trade. The Curse of Rocky Colavito was born,

Ken Keltner wore #6 for a couple of years, and he'd at least be in the discussion. But he wore #8 in 1941 when he put a stop to DiMaggio's hitting streak, so I'll defer to that digit in his case.

I couldn't find a decent Brown or Cav for #6. Seneca Wallace? Larry Nance wore 6 for one season, but clearly better known as #22. Shannon Brown?

[skatingtripods]

Looks like 5-8 is a Tribe clean sweep. Boudreau, Rock, Lofton, Belle.

[googleeph2]

We'll have a #6 Cavalier in a couple yrs...

(hiding behind the couch)

[hornet84]

Just want to throw Micheal Jackson from the Browns out there for the # 1's. He only wore the number for his first two seasons, but he did put up some pretty decent numbers.
The first #1 that crossed my mind for the Tribe was Tommy Hinzo. Still trying to erase him from my memory along with Jack Perconte, Jerry Dybzinski, Frank Duffy and Jack Brohamer.

[LarsHancock]

I mean Feller was kind of a dick, even just a few years ago.

How did people let this go uncontested?

Feller was nothing even close to resembling a dick. He was one of the nicest and most humble men I've ever met. I sat down with him for over an hour once over a few beers and to listen to him talk and relay history to me was one of the most awesome experiences of my life. Every time I've seen him in my life he was always gracious and outgoing, and willing to do whatever it took to endear himself to fans.

At no point in his life was he ever a "dick". This is way off.

Oh, by the way, when you get to 10 please include The Mouse in the discussion...

[gotribe31]

I mean Feller was kind of a dick, even just a few years ago.

How did people let this go uncontested?

Feller was nothing even close to resembling a dick. He was one of the nicest and most humble men I've ever met. I sat down with him for over an hour once over a few beers and to listen to him talk and relay history to me was one of the most awesome experiences of my life. Every time I've seen him in my life he was always gracious and outgoing, and willing to do whatever it took to endear himself to fans.

At no point in his life was he ever a "dick". This is way off.

Oh, by the way, when you get to 10 please include The Mouse in the discussion...

It's because FUDU said it. No one really takes much he says very seriously.

[Squints]

Looks like 5-8 is a Tribe clean sweep. Boudreau, Rock, Lofton, Belle.

No contest.

[gotribe31]

Looking forward to #'s 9-12...anyone have suggestions for #10? Not BQ. Pat Tabler? Mike Pagel?

[skatingtripods]

Looking forward to #'s 9-12...anyone have suggestions for #10? Not BQ. Pat Tabler? Mike Pagel?

Kelly Shoppach.

A suggestion for #9 would be Fred Glover: http://ahlhalloffame.com/fred-glover-p139016

Also from his Wikipedia:

1954 Calder Cup Championship (Cleveland) AHL
1957 Calder Cup Championship (Cleveland) AHL
1957 John B. Sollenberger Trophy winner (Cleveland) AHL Scoring Champion.
1960 Les Cunningham Award winner (Cleveland) AHL (MVP)
1960 John B. Sollenberger Trophy winner (Cleveland) AHL Scoring Champion.
1962 Les Cunningham Award winner (Cleveland) AHL (MVP)
1964 Les Cunningham Award winner (Cleveland) AHL (MVP)

[jerryroche]

I gotta throw in a dissenting vote for Rosen #7. I absolutely love Kenny Lofton, but how many MVPs has any Cleveburg team had in the history of the city?

Also, if you've included Otto Orf from soccer at #00, Freddie Glover has to at least be in the discussion for #9. For more than 10 years, he WAS Cleveland hockey.

[kennesawmountainwahoo]

Looking forward to #'s 9-12...anyone have suggestions for #10? Not BQ. Pat Tabler? Mike Pagel?

Dr. David Mays - beat the Steelers. Then was found guilty in a billing scheme involving his dental practice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Mays

[furls]

I noticed that there was not much of an OSU presence. Here are some options for you to consider.

#7 Tedd Ginn Jr, Cornelius Greene, Joey Galloway and Chris Gamble
#2 Terrelle Pryor, Malcolm Jenkins (X2 All American and Thorpe Award, best DB in NCAA), Mike Doss and Cris Carter
#0 Jared Sullinger (hoops)
#4 Santonio Holmes
#3 Mike Sensibaugh (DB on the other side of Tatum from 68-70)
#5 John Havlicek (hoops)

[Squints]

It does say Cleveland athletes which is why OSU hasn't entered my mind for any this discussion.

BUT....will make for a great thread once this is done. And I bet someone says Katzenmoyer for #45.

[furls]

I saw that, I didn't know if Columbus counted as Cleveland or not, but there are some pretty good Buckeyes out there in shitty cleveland numbers. #2 comes to mind, as does #7

[googleeph2]

Hey, little help on #4 besides Dawson? Thanks!

And agree on Fred Glover. I think he got some type of lifetime award when the Arena closed, too. Maybe there is info out there on that. (It was someone- I think him.)

[Squints]

Hey, little help on #4 besides Dawson? Thanks!

Ron Harper. That being said, my vote would still be Dawson.

[gotribe31]

I saw that, I didn't know if Columbus counted as Cleveland or not, but there are some pretty good Buckeyes out there in shitty cleveland numbers. #2 comes to mind, as does #7

We decided going in that we'd stick to Cleveland only, no OSU. Otherwise yeah, 2 would have been Doss in my opinion. Kyrie will just have to do.

[exiledbuckeye]

Keeping with the soccer theme....#12, Kai Haaskivi.

http://clevelandsportshall.com/haaskivi-kai/

[skatingtripods]

#9: Fred Glover; #10: ???; #11: Zydrunas Ilgauskas; #12: Robbie Alomar

[Squints]

9- Reading the links on Glover, I would vote him over Carlos Baerga. When I think of Carlos, I see a potential hall of fame career wasted.

10- Dick Snyder, Miracle of Richfield.

11- Z.

12- As much as the heart says Kai Haaskavi, it is Alomar.

[gotribe31]

Really nice work by Adam today with the Dawson article.

[Squints]

^^^^^
Came here to say the exact same thing. Well done.

[googleeph2]

I got curious on Glover.

2:50
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/news_a ... land-arena

He doesn't need to be a big deal now, but he once was.
Tough contrast on this footage from the old Arena. Fascinating though. March 25, 1962
Scored his 400th goal in a 13-2 win over those hated Pittsburgh Hornets. 4:10
Chippiness at 1:34.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1PrhQ6GWRQ

There weren't many NHL teams, and the Barons were a big deal then.

[googleeph2]

Also, yes- great article by Adam.

[danwismar]

Thanks for that Glover stuff Greg. #9 is in the works, with not much more than Baerga and Matt Bahr to work with.

And yeah...nice job on #4, Tripods. You're hired...full-time.

[gotribe31]

Dan (predictably) with a great article on #5 up now. You remember how good Boudreau was as a player, and tend to forget his success as a manager went hand in hand. Can't even fathom that happening today; would be like the Indians getting rid of Acta and hiring Kipnis as the manager for 2013.