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LeBron back?

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Want him back?

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No
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LeBron back?

Unread postby bookelly » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:15 am

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/cleveland-cavaliers-may-target-lebron-james-2014-free-225204694--nba.html

Want him back? Willing to bet 2 years of tanking on the chance he keeps his word?
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:49 am

I can't really think of a reason he want to come back, but sure, I'd want him. Why wouldn't I?
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Govbarney » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:33 am

Ugh this is exactly what the LBJ camp wants, another 2 years of FA circus. My guess is Nike is spawning these rumors.

If it did happen , and he came back (and I would bet my left nut he wont), his sabbatical which ended up giving us Irving, TT and Waiters (not to mention a lottery pick this year and next) would go down as the best thing that ever happened to the Cavs. Wouldn't it be funny if that were the plan all along , he realized they could never get the proper FA help here , so he left IOT allow the Cavs to build through the Draft for a couple of years.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Orenthal » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:38 am

I'm tired of sports drama, the kind that involves anything but on field play.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby pup » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:55 am

:lmfao:
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby JJN » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:58 am

Do I want the best player in the world back? That's a hard one. The only other way we will have a chance at a perimeter player anywhere near the same caliber is if we somehow manage to win the lottery next year and snag Andrew Wiggins. LBJ or tanking and, at most, a 25% chance at Wiggins. BeTeaDubs, Wiggins is redic, and I would want him more than LeBenedict Arnold.

motherscratcher wrote:I can't really think of a reason he want to come back


Scuttlebutt is that he still has a lot of ties to the Akron area, plus he would be playing with a top 5 PG plus cast instead of ZombieWade, the corpse of Jesus Shuttleworth, RuPaul, and a bunch of no cost doodoo.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Spin » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:18 am

One thing the modern athlete has taught me is to root for the name on the front, not on the back.

Just give us a freakin' winner.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby OldDawg » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:37 pm

1) LBJ wanting to draw even more attention to himself.
2) LBJ wanting to mend fences here in NEO from "the decision." He wants us to "think" he wants to come back so we forgive him.
3) Its all about LBJ promoting, umm, LBJ
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby StewieG » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:46 pm

OldDawg wrote:1) LBJ wanting to draw even more attention to himself.
2) LBJ wanting to mend fences here in NEO from "the decision." He wants us to "think" he wants to come back so we forgive him.
3) Its all about LBJ promoting, umm, LBJ



Exactly. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:10 pm

StewieG wrote:
OldDawg wrote:1) LBJ wanting to draw even more attention to himself.
2) LBJ wanting to mend fences here in NEO from "the decision." He wants us to "think" he wants to come back so we forgive him.
3) Its all about LBJ promoting, umm, LBJ



Exactly. Nothing more, nothing less.


No, not close to exactly. Cause #2 on that list...if you think he gave a shit about you (the fans) then, gives a shit about you now, or will give a shit about you 5 years from now, you're sadly mistaken. Don't care about you, don't care what you think, isn't in the same world or reality.

This is the same line of thinking on these boards that lent some to believe he might stay, make some believe that local guys are gonna give the team some sort of "discount" and a bunch of other things.

And this isn't exclusive to Lebron by the way, he's just the biggest fish.

And Kyrie and a sack of shit is a draw over other sacks of shit- but not real teams.

And Wiggins might turn out to be a great player. There's a difference between a great player and Lebron.

And this talk of him coming back is fantastic.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby pup » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:25 pm

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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby jerryroche » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:48 pm

Don't want him.
Don't even want to think about not wanting him.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby bac5665 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:54 am

It would almost be as foolish to not want him back as it would be to think there is any chance that he actually will come back.

The next time a meaningful FA comes to a Cleveland team would be the first. To think that that FA would be the best player in the NBA, a league where FAs are less likely than normal to come to Cleveland, well that's just silly.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:11 pm

I know in this day and age we should think of sports and athletes in the most corporate, soulless way possible, but this would be a great story. A lot better than him going to his 3rd team in 5 years, anyway. Plus doesn't he still live here in the offseason?

And strange as it sounds, they actually make basketball sense as a suitor in 2014. Our roster is garbage now but you add 2 more high lottery picks to Kyrie and Andy (or his trade return) plus Thompson and Waiters at least being rotation guys and additional cap room to play with and you have a pretty good foundation if LeBron would join it. Wade will be on the decline by 2014 (if not already), he'll have at least 1 title in Miami and probably 1 more, and both Brooklyn and the Knicks are capped out. The Lakers will have a clean slate by then but Dwight Howard is no lock to stay there and he'll be stepping immediately into Kobe's shadow whether Kobe is retired or not.

Still kind of a longshot but it'll be interesting. I hated him as much as anyone when he left but in retrospect, I've never met the guy and basketball is infinitely more fun when he's around. I think this fanbase can let bygones be bygones.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Govbarney » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:31 pm

If he did come back all I know is that walking into any Cleveland area dive bar, where the regulars tend to be old washed-up drunks will instantly become more intolerable than it already is. :cheers:
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:41 pm

I refuse to placate this idiot's desire for attention and love and will not even begin to assess the major moral dilemma I'd face if this POS came back to Cleveland until after the press conference announcing it.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby jerryroche » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:33 pm

Just got around to reading "The Whore of Akron." If author Scott Raab isn't totally out in left field throwing hockey pucks, the subject of the book is a spoiled, clueless schmuck of the first order, surrounded by a cadre of other spoiled schmucks. No doubt, TWoA is a talented schmuck, but a schmuck nonetheless—and not the kind of person you want your young ballers to be exposed to on a daily basis.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:36 pm

jerryroche wrote:Just got around to reading "The Whore of Akron." If author Scott Raab isn't totally out in left field throwing hockey pucks, the subject of the book is a spoiled, clueless schmuck of the first order, surrounded by a cadre of other spoiled schmucks. No doubt, TWoA is a talented schmuck, but a schmuck nonetheless—and not the kind of person you want your young ballers to be exposed to on a daily basis.


Why? What would happen?
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:59 pm

I'm to the point that I only care what these guys do between the lines. So if guy comes back and helps this team win a ring, I'm in.

2012/13 LBJ is far more mature than 09/10 James could ever hope to be. He's actually become the leader on that Heat team and became Batman when we all made the call he'd be Robin.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby jerryroche » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:00 pm

motherscratcher wrote:Why? What would happen?

Who can say? Maybe some of TWoA's narcissism would rub off on Kyrie or TT or Dion or or Zeller or all of them. Maybe the possibly impressionable youngsters would join him in creating a totally screwed-up locker room reminiscent of the 2009-2010 Cavs, as chronicled in Raab's book.

Or maybe not.

No doubt, having him back would be a high-risk, high-reward situation. Some fans, starved for a championship, might be open to anything, up to and including signing a pact with the devil. But I'm not one. There are better ways to win. Finding those ways is definitely more difficult but also more rewarding— at least in my admittedly old-fashioned way of thinking.

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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:15 am

Guy was an entitled dickhead 10 years ago, he's and entitled dickhead now and he'll probably be an entitled dickehead in 10 more years.

He's the best in the league though so if he comes back and he's good I think 99% of Cleveland will overlook his duchebaggery (including myself). Some will even convince themselves he's changed into a better person--which will be both sad and funny.

I still think he doesn't take his talents to Cleveland again for like 4+ years.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:33 am

jerryroche wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:Why? What would happen?

Who can say? Maybe some of TWoA's narcissism would rub off on Kyrie or TT or Dion or or Zeller or all of them. Maybe the possibly impressionable youngsters would join him in creating a totally screwed-up locker room reminiscent of the 2009-2010 Cavs, as chronicled in Raab's book.

Or maybe not.

No doubt, having him back would be a high-risk, high-reward situation. Some fans, starved for a championship, might be open to anything, up to and including signing a pact with the devil. But I'm not one. There are better ways to win. Finding those ways is definitely more difficult but also more rewarding— at least in my admittedly old-fashioned way of thinking.

Fool me once with your turncoat ways and phantom elbow injury, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.


A. If there are better ways to win, they might want to uncover one over the course of 40 years.

B. Not sure how the guy didn't help damn near everyone on the roster while he was here - including utter garbage. Hell, JJ Hickson ought to be sending him money every month, for example.

C. Not sure how you can't see how he'd make Kyrie and company better. Zeller getting the same 5 dunks a game Hickson was getting ain't gonna help him out?

And Scott Raab, a good writer, has turned himself into a cartoon character over this. Want a controlled lockeroom with Lebron in it? Go to South Beach. The Cavs let Lebron's inmates run the asylum. I would think an NBA franchise would do better.

Again, the NBA...all of these sports are filled with arrogant, selfish pricks. The teams that win have the best arrogant, selfish pricks.

Get the best, and you get yourself some wins. The guy took a shit sandwich to the Finals. Fact.

What happens on the floor matters. What happens off does not.

Look,if you don't want the guy for personal reasons, fine. And understandable. But don't act like he would do anything than improve the product on the floor 10 fold.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby jerryroche » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:04 am

leadpipe wrote:A. If there are better ways to win, they might want to uncover one over the course of 40 years.

B. Not sure how the guy didn't help damn near everyone on the roster while he was here - including utter garbage. Hell, JJ Hickson ought to be sending him money every month, for example.

C. Not sure how you can't see how he'd make Kyrie and company better. Zeller getting the same 5 dunks a game Hickson was getting ain't gonna help him out?

And Scott Raab, a good writer, has turned himself into a cartoon character over this. Want a controlled lockeroom with Lebron in it? Go to South Beach. The Cavs let Lebron's inmates run the asylum. I would think an NBA franchise would do better.

Again, the NBA...all of these sports are filled with arrogant, selfish pricks. The teams that win have the best arrogant, selfish pricks.

Get the best, and you get yourself some wins. The guy took a shit sandwich to the Finals. Fact.

What happens on the floor matters. What happens off does not.

Look,if you don't want the guy for personal reasons, fine. And understandable. But don't act like he would do anything than improve the product on the floor 10 fold.

TWoA is most definitely the most talented player in the game today—maybe ever—good enough to make the Cavs a 60-win team rather than a 20-win team, a three-fold improvement. Granted.

There is very definitely a way to win without getting involved with arrogant, selfish pricks. Case in point: the Cavalier teams of Brad Daugherty, Larry Nance and Mark Price—good guys, one and all—who very nearly equalled the success of a couple of TWoA's most successful teams. Good guys do exist in pro sports.

And in my admittedly archaic book, what happens off the floor DOES matter. Character counts. You can take all the awards that Ray Lewis has won and shove them where the sun don't shine. While you're at it, you can do the same with all the bicycle races that Lance Armstrong won and all the home runs Mark McGuire hit. Give me a team with an Ernie Banks or a Kevin Durant any day. I might never hoist a trophy, but the journey would be exciting and memorable. That's really all I ask. But that's just me.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:57 am

jerryroche wrote:
leadpipe wrote:A. If there are better ways to win, they might want to uncover one over the course of 40 years.

B. Not sure how the guy didn't help damn near everyone on the roster while he was here - including utter garbage. Hell, JJ Hickson ought to be sending him money every month, for example.

C. Not sure how you can't see how he'd make Kyrie and company better. Zeller getting the same 5 dunks a game Hickson was getting ain't gonna help him out?

And Scott Raab, a good writer, has turned himself into a cartoon character over this. Want a controlled lockeroom with Lebron in it? Go to South Beach. The Cavs let Lebron's inmates run the asylum. I would think an NBA franchise would do better.

Again, the NBA...all of these sports are filled with arrogant, selfish pricks. The teams that win have the best arrogant, selfish pricks.

Get the best, and you get yourself some wins. The guy took a shit sandwich to the Finals. Fact.

What happens on the floor matters. What happens off does not.

Look,if you don't want the guy for personal reasons, fine. And understandable. But don't act like he would do anything than improve the product on the floor 10 fold.

TWoA is most definitely the most talented player in the game today—maybe ever—good enough to make the Cavs a 60-win team rather than a 20-win team, a three-fold improvement. Granted.

There is very definitely a way to win without getting involved with arrogant, selfish pricks. Case in point: the Cavalier teams of Brad Daugherty, Larry Nance and Mark Price—good guys, one and all—who very nearly equalled the success of a couple of TWoA's most successful teams. Good guys do exist in pro sports.

And in my admittedly archaic book, what happens off the floor DOES matter. Character counts. You can take all the awards that Ray Lewis has won and shove them where the sun don't shine. While you're at it, you can do the same with all the bicycle races that Lance Armstrong won and all the home runs Mark McGuire hit. Give me a team with an Ernie Banks or a Kevin Durant any day. I might never hoist a trophy, but the journey would be exciting and memorable. That's really all I ask. But that's just me.


If the Price/Daugherty teams had a prick, perhaps they wouldn't a let teams with one walk all over them. Oakley/Jordan faced zero repercussions for mugging Price once Mark West went West.

And Ray Lewis is a perfect example. Being an alleged felon didn't prevent him from the bowl, just like Lebron being a dick didn't prevent him from the ring - despite numerous delusional cries from hurt Cleveland fans it would.

Point is, if you want a great bunch of guys who lose - we've had that several times over the years.

But are tryin' to WIN?

Look, if you're goal isn't really winning, then ignore my post.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Govbarney » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:23 am

jerryroche wrote:Just got around to reading "The Whore of Akron." If author Scott Raab isn't totally out in left field throwing hockey pucks, the subject of the book is a spoiled, clueless schmuck of the first order, surrounded by a cadre of other spoiled schmucks. No doubt, TWoA is a talented schmuck, but a schmuck nonetheless—and not the kind of person you want your young ballers to be exposed to on a daily basis.


I took away from that book that while yes Raab feels he is a total "spoiled, clueless schmuck of the first order". He also felt truly sorry for him, and the combination of his upbringing and his once in a lifetime talent made it all but inevitable he would turn out like he did.

A few months ago Raab was on the XM Radio show Ron & Fez and echoed what Leadpipe says: Yes he is a world class dick (which I think we can all agree on) but he is also the best chance a team like the Cavs would ever have to win a ring , and if he did come back , he thinks a ring would make a lot of people , 'maybe' even Raab himself at least partially forgive , and just appreciate the man for his talents.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:59 pm

ok...so I'm off this week and was bored yesterday so I turned on some STO/FOX Ohio or whatever it's called now and Bruce Drennan was on talking about our best budy Lebron. He said, he has a dependable inside source who told him the following things after the Cavs/Trailblazers game..

(1) Lebron watched the game and he records and watches almost all of the Cavs games
(2) Lebron does want to come back and play here next year
(3) He will only come back though if there is a strong base where he can come in and be the difference-maker to win championships.
(4) He wants to play with Kyrie and Bynum
(5) The acid test will be if the Cavs improve and win close to 45 games this year
(6) He wants his kids to grow-up and live in Ohio not South Beach/Miami.

Say what you want about Drennan....normally not the brightest bulb on the tree these days or the hardworking guy who breaks big stories but I have to say I don't remember him being someone who comes up with fabricated stories either. It's possible his source isn't right but it was clear that Drennan trusts him and believed it.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:34 am

LeBron has been keeping tabs on the Cavs for almost two years according to Stephen A Smith, SAS is close to Wade so his opinion/reports hold water when it comes to LbJ.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby CharacterIV » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:52 am

It all comes down to whether or not Miami wins the Championship again this year.

If Miami loses to Indy in the ECF, fair chance LeBron leaves.

If they lose to someone else in the finals, less of a chance.

Increase either chance by 10% or so if Wade is watching the loss from the bench due to an acute case of busted, or if Bosh being stomped into the dirt by West and Hibbert (or some other brawny big) is a big part of why they lost.

If he leaves, and the Cavs end the season looking like scrappy up-and-comers rather than a dysfunctional team that can't gel offensively or defensively, then there's a chance he comes back. The Prodigal Son narrative would be hella-tempting to a guy like LBJ.

If Miami wins it all this year though, he's staying in South Beach. No way LeBron walks away from the chance for a four-peat. If he pulled it off, it'd be the one thing that he could say he did that Jordan didn't do.

LeBron's proven he made the right choice in leaving. None of us can deny that. Two rings in three years is unarguable. I absolutely believe that the rings resulted more from him switching his own mindset rather than anything Miami, Wade, Bosh, Spoelstra or Pat Riley provided, and that post 2012 LeBron could have won the NBA Title playing with the Washington Generals, but facts are facts. He made the right choice to leave, he just chose the absolute worst method to do so.

Speaking as an absolutely Championship-starved Cleveland fan, I'm willing to forgive a protracted series of events that reflect world class insensitivity and unawareness from a twenty-something megamillionaire kid if it means he's going to come back as a more mature young man, in the prime of his power, and lead us to the promised land.

The most realistic ideal scenario: the Cavs put it all together, end the season as a playoff team and get to play a series against LeBron and the Heat. First round is more likely, second round would be better, but more improbable. They give Miami a rough series that goes 7 games and actually presents a danger to end their season. (It'd be great to say beat them, but that's just not gonna happen.)

Miami then loses BAD to Indy in the ECF. The rest of the Heat roster is exposed as old or untalented as Indy clamps down on D, Wade limps around trying to play beyond himself and Bosh is physically abused by the stronger Indy bigs.

If everything plays out exactly as I have detailed above, I'd say there's a 50% chance LeBron opens next season back in NE Ohio.

In other words, don't bet on it. Grant and Cavs management can't give up on it happening by blowing their trove of resources and enviable cap flexibility on sub-par opportunities to improve, but they need a better plan after this season than waiting for LeBron.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:53 am

It's not all up to LBJ as it stands. Could Wade look to opt out and get one more max contract before finally hanging them up? Does Bosh feel he can be an Alpha player elsewhere and try the same thing? James is all about the rings at this point and has stated he wants to catch Jordan. Wade has his 3 and doesnt seem to be obsessed with matching Mike and banners. Bosh is happy to have his 2, again someone who doesnt appear to be al about 'ships.

If Wade is looking for one last payday, does Arison open up his checkbook and reward him for the last 10 years in Miami. IF that would happen, would 'bron like being Robin in terms of salary.


again as stated many times, it's all dependent on whether the Heat are wearing another crown mid June or not
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby jb » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:44 pm

jerryroche wrote:
leadpipe wrote:A. If there are better ways to win, they might want to uncover one over the course of 40 years.

B. Not sure how the guy didn't help damn near everyone on the roster while he was here - including utter garbage. Hell, JJ Hickson ought to be sending him money every month, for example.

C. Not sure how you can't see how he'd make Kyrie and company better. Zeller getting the same 5 dunks a game Hickson was getting ain't gonna help him out?

And Scott Raab, a good writer, has turned himself into a cartoon character over this. Want a controlled lockeroom with Lebron in it? Go to South Beach. The Cavs let Lebron's inmates run the asylum. I would think an NBA franchise would do better.

Again, the NBA...all of these sports are filled with arrogant, selfish pricks. The teams that win have the best arrogant, selfish pricks.

Get the best, and you get yourself some wins. The guy took a shit sandwich to the Finals. Fact.

What happens on the floor matters. What happens off does not.

Look,if you don't want the guy for personal reasons, fine. And understandable. But don't act like he would do anything than improve the product on the floor 10 fold.

TWoA is most definitely the most talented player in the game today—maybe ever—good enough to make the Cavs a 60-win team rather than a 20-win team, a three-fold improvement. Granted.

There is very definitely a way to win without getting involved with arrogant, selfish pricks. Case in point: the Cavalier teams of Brad Daugherty, Larry Nance and Mark Price—good guys, one and all—who very nearly equalled the success of a couple of TWoA's most successful teams. Good guys do exist in pro sports.

And in my admittedly archaic book, what happens off the floor DOES matter. Character counts. You can take all the awards that Ray Lewis has won and shove them where the sun don't shine. While you're at it, you can do the same with all the bicycle races that Lance Armstrong won and all the home runs Mark McGuire hit. Give me a team with an Ernie Banks or a Kevin Durant any day. I might never hoist a trophy, but the journey would be exciting and memorable. That's really all I ask. But that's just me.



And of course, in the grand scheme of things, whatever Bron did or didn't do out of ego makes him the equivalent of..... Ray Lewis?

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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:10 pm

I'm sure he can't wait to come back and join this clown show. Maybe we'll get another top 4 pick and go for the hat trick on reach tweeners who are 20 pounds overweight and whose ceiling on a contender is a good microwave scorer off the bench.

In all seriousness, I thought the reasons for him to come back would be very compelling to all involved and that the aging/rising costs for the Heat combined with the PR would make it a logical move. But this roster makes no sense as assembled and you have amateur hour across the board in the front office. I don't think there's any way he leaves a great Owner/GM/Coach in Miami for this. Even if Wade and Bosh were to go elsewhere, I honestly think he'd opt for a quick one year semi-rebuild there before he'd come back here.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:25 pm

Kingpin74 wrote:
In all seriousness, I thought the reasons for him to come back would be very compelling to all involved and that the aging/rising costs for the Heat combined with the PR would make it a logical move. But this roster makes no sense as assembled and you have amateur hour across the board in the front office. I don't think there's any way he leaves a great Owner/GM/Coach in Miami for this. Even if Wade and Bosh were to go elsewhere, I honestly think he'd opt for a quick one year semi-rebuild there before he'd come back here.


This roster may not make sense as assembled, but if LeBron comes back I'm sure they'd be more than happy to reassemble the roster.

Also, when the Cavs played Miami in Miami three weeks ago, that nonsensical roster played the Heat very tough. The score was tied 100-100 with 3:34 to go before the Heat finally pulled away. LeBron had 25 pts, 9 assists, 9 boards, and 4 steals. Put him on the Cavs and they win that game by at least 25.

LeBron coming to the Cavs would turn their small forward position from the worst to the best in the league. Their greatest weakness would instantly become their greatest strength. It's not like he would be replacing a good player, or even an average player. His impact on the team would be extraordinary.

I'm not saying he'll leave Miami, but I think a Cavs team with LeBron could very well be better than the Heat with LeBron over the next four years, considering the age of some of the Heat's players:

Ray Allen 38
Dwayne Wade 32 this month
Chris Anderson 35
Joel Anthony 31
Shane Battier 35
Chris Bosh 30 in March
Udonis Haslem 33
James Jones 33
Rashard Lewis 34
Roger Mason Jr 33

By the time the '14-'15 season starts you can add 1 to most of those ages.

They do have four players besides LeBron who will be under 30 as of this April:

Michael Beasley 24
Norris Cole 25
Mario Chalmers 27
Greg Oden 25 (going on 55)

Can someone make an argument that LeBron could win more championships from 2015-2018 with Miami than he could with Cleveland? Don't forget that the Cavs are flush with draft picks over the next three years. They even have one of Miami's, if I'm not mistaken.

I suppose Miami could cut everybody over 30 except Bosh, Wade, and LeBron after this season and sign a couple of stars and a bunch of aging vets who are willing to work cheap for a shot at a championship. Maybe Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett - guys like that.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:44 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Can someone make an argument that LeBron could win more championships from 2015-2018 with Miami than he could with Cleveland? Don't forget that the Cavs are flush with draft picks over the next three years. They even have one of Miami's, if I'm not mistaken.


No idea what LBJ thinks about returning. But as to the above, they have two overall #1 picks and two overall #4 picks that they've had in last three drafts. And one of them is completely lost (Bennett), one is schizophrenic (Waiters), one is a 6th or 7th man and completely redundant to Varejao (Thompson) and one is a scoring star with zero interest in playing any defense at all (Irving).

I don't think Cleveland (the town/history) is necessarily the issue with LeBron. I think the guys running the show in Cleveland might be a significant issue given they've done less with more than arguably anyone with that haul of picks over a three year period.

Four top four picks and they're winning at less than a 35% clip.

THAT is a factor that someone with a choice might be leaning heavily on. So I don't think it's a crazy argument to say Miami has a better chance at winning a title with LBJ and whatever cast of characters they keep going forward. And Miami's chances may well be greatly reduced.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:58 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:Can someone make an argument that LeBron could win more championships from 2015-2018 with Miami than he could with Cleveland? Don't forget that the Cavs are flush with draft picks over the next three years. They even have one of Miami's, if I'm not mistaken.


No idea what LBJ thinks about returning. But as to the above, they have two overall #1 picks and two overall #4 picks that they've had in last three drafts. And one of them is completely lost (Bennett), one is schizophrenic (Waiters), one is a 6th or 7th man and completely redundant to Varejao (Thompson) and one is a scoring star with zero interest in playing any defense at all (Irving).

I don't think Cleveland (the town/history) is necessarily the issue with LeBron. I think the guys running the show in Cleveland might be a significant issue given they've done less with more than arguably anyone with that haul of picks over a three year period.

Four top four picks and they're winning at less than a 35% clip.

THAT is a factor that someone with a choice might be leaning heavily on. So I don't think it's a crazy argument to say Miami has a better chance at winning a title with LBJ and whatever cast of characters they keep going forward. And Miami's chances may well be greatly reduced.


Here's why Lebron would have a better opportunity for championships in Miami 2015-2018;

Nobody alive wants to play in Cleveland.

The Cavaliers are arguably the worst organization in sports wire to wire.

Is there anything else that matters?

This is one of my favorite topics though. Wife just opened a business in South Beach, Lebron ridin' his bike to the arena.....we're chippin' ice off our windshields looking forward to a high of -3 Tuesday.

The guy's a lot of things, but he ain't a big enough moron to come back here.

And by the way, to keep the reasoning even simpler, he'll have a better chance in Miami from 2015-2018 cause Miami will have a better team - with or without him.

Cause the Cavs are historically stupid.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:49 am

Nobody alive wants to play in Cleveland. The Cavaliers are arguably the worst organization in sports wire to wire. Is there anything else that matters?


If LeBron is in Cleveland, along with Kyrie, Waiters, TT, Andy, Jack, Zeller, and Bennett, I think players will come. Whether the Cavs will have the cap room to sign a couple of complementary types like Miami did with Shane Battier and Ray Allen is the question. Especially since the Cavs have extra first round picks in the next few years.

My feeling is that a team of Kyrie, Waiters, and Jack at guard, TT and Bennett at the 4, LeBron at the 3, and Varajao/Zeller at center could win the East. Miami would no longer be a factor without LeBron. Atlanta is the 3rd best team at 18-15, leaving only the Pacers to challenge the Cavs for a spot in the Finals.

Throw in the draft picks over the next couple of years and the potential development of Bennett into a contributor and that would be a very nice team, even without picking up a single free agent other than LeBron.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:11 am

Prosecutor wrote:
Nobody alive wants to play in Cleveland. The Cavaliers are arguably the worst organization in sports wire to wire. Is there anything else that matters?


If LeBron is in Cleveland, along with Kyrie, Waiters, TT, Andy, Jack, Zeller, and Bennett, I think players will come. Whether the Cavs will have the cap room to sign a couple of complementary types like Miami did with Shane Battier and Ray Allen is the question. Especially since the Cavs have extra first round picks in the next few years.

My feeling is that a team of Kyrie, Waiters, and Jack at guard, TT and Bennett at the 4, LeBron at the 3, and Varajao/Zeller at center could win the East. Miami would no longer be a factor without LeBron. Atlanta is the 3rd best team at 18-15, leaving only the Pacers to challenge the Cavs for a spot in the Finals.

Throw in the draft picks over the next couple of years and the potential development of Bennett into a contributor and that would be a very nice team, even without picking up a single free agent other than LeBron.


What you are failing to grasp is that in the East, ANY team you put Lebron on would easily be the best team, aside from Indiana. A lot of players you listed up there are garbage at worst, obtainable anytime at best.

And again, name me the top ten Cavalier free agents of all-time including when Lebron was here.

Nonbody is coming here. Including him. Shake yourself.

Not to mention, your 4's and 5's here are not only sub-par, but they'll do nothing but clog the lane. You want ISO Lebron, or do you want the guy making PLAYS. TT and Andy are redundant, and a waste of time playing at the same time.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby jerryroche » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:42 am

leadpipe wrote:The Cavaliers are arguably the worst organization in sports wire to wire.

Time will tell, but at least at this moment in history, the Browns are. Both are laughingstocks right now. Out-of-towners are rightfully taking pity on Cleveland pro sports fans.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:42 pm

jerryroche wrote:
leadpipe wrote:The Cavaliers are arguably the worst organization in sports wire to wire.

Time will tell, but at least at this moment in history, the Browns are. Both are laughingstocks right now. Out-of-towners are rightfully taking pity on Cleveland pro sports fans.


Have they changed the NFL draft rules because of the Browns?

Have they ever lost a great player cause they took his "word" for something?

And a million other things.

It's not even close between the Browns and Cavs.

Not. Close.

Difference between being a laughingstock right now, and a laughingstock for 40 years.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby jerryroche » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:09 pm

Lead, the Browns' suckitude goes back 20 years, the Cavs' only four. Both have gone through a whirlwind of coaching changes. Both have blown draft choices hand over fist. Both have taken their few notable players and either alienated them (LBJ) or ruined their careers (can you say Joe Jurevicius and the staph infection debacle?). Neither front office (and, by extension, ownership) has proven even close to being knowledgable or efficient over the past 20 years.

At least the Cavs have a few championship pennants hanging from the rafters that don't pre-date 2000. If you want to go back 40 years, yeah, the Cavs are the worse of the two. But most fans are either too young or their memory has been dulled by too many years of Wild Turkey to remember back any farther than 20 years. Hell, I'm even lucky to remember Lee Suggs!
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:45 pm

jerryroche wrote:Lead, the Browns' suckitude goes back 20 years, the Cavs' only four. Both have gone through a whirlwind of coaching changes. Both have blown draft choices hand over fist. Both have taken their few notable players and either alienated them (LBJ) or ruined their careers (can you say Joe Jurevicius and the staph infection debacle?). Neither front office (and, by extension, ownership) has proven even close to being knowledgable or efficient over the past 20 years.

At least the Cavs have a few championship pennants hanging from the rafters that don't pre-date 2000. If you want to go back 40 years, yeah, the Cavs are the worse of the two. But most fans are either too young or their memory has been dulled by too many years of Wild Turkey to remember back any farther than 20 years. Hell, I'm even lucky to remember Lee Suggs!


But 40 years represents THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY. That's what I mean by wire to wire.

The Browns have been GREAT in their history.

For the love of Paul Brown or Art Modell NOT throwing softballs off the Terminal Tower injuring innocent bystanders, or building arenas in the middle of nowhere.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:09 pm

leadpipe wrote:
What you are failing to grasp is that in the East, ANY team you put Lebron on would easily be the best team, aside from Indiana.

Which is why the argument that LeBron would not consider coming back because he wants to win doesn't hold water.

And again, name me the top ten Cavalier free agents of all-time including when Lebron was here.

Just because they didn't come in the past doesn't mean they would turn up their noses at a team consisting of LeBron, Kyrie, Waiters, Andy, TT, Jack, Zeller, and possibly Deng.

Nonbody is coming here. Including him. Shake yourself.

OK, I shook myself, and I still think it's a realistic possibility. The argument that the Cavs are the worst run organizations in professional sports is starting to lose its credibility a bit after they signed a slug nobody wanted and turned him into Luol Deng.

Not to mention, your 4's and 5's here are not only sub-par, but they'll do nothing but clog the lane. You want ISO Lebron, or do you want the guy making PLAYS. TT and Andy are redundant, and a waste of time playing at the same time.

Somehow I think if you put LeBron, Andy, TT, Kyrie and Waiters, Jack, or Miles on the floor at the same time they would figure out how to score a few points. If you want to argue against that, have at it. Would free agents NOT want to play on that team? Who cares? Just that group alone, along with Zeller, could go to the Finals.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:42 pm

As Shane Battier said about going to Miami;

"I came here because of Lebron, but make no mistake about it, if Lebron were playing in Alaska I ain't following him. That doesn't fly with Mrs. Battier."

That's EVERY NBA player in a nutshell. They ain't comin' here to chizzle ice off a windshield.

And the single ones can do simple math, as in, a Miami 3=a Cleveland 9.

Christ Pros, you need proof, research forever.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:15 pm

"That's EVERY NBA player in a nutshell. They ain't comin' here to chizzle ice off a windshield."

Simple as that, huh? If it's cold in the winter, NBA players won't go there.

I guess that explains why no free agents ever sign with the Celtics, Knicks, Nets, T-Wolves, Pistons, Bulls, Cavs, Sixers, etc.

"Sorry, LeBron, no way I'm playing with you, Kyrie, Dion, Andy, and TT. It's too cold there. Who needs an NBA Championship ring anyway if it means having to scrape ice off the windshield? Don't feel bad, I wouldn't have signed with Chicago to play with Michael if I had been around back then, either."
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:47 pm

Prosecutor wrote:"That's EVERY NBA player in a nutshell. They ain't comin' here to chizzle ice off a windshield."

Simple as that, huh? If it's cold in the winter, NBA players won't go there.

I guess that explains why no free agents ever sign with the Celtics, Knicks, Nets, T-Wolves, Pistons, Bulls, Cavs, Sixers, etc.

"Sorry, LeBron, no way I'm playing with you, Kyrie, Dion, Andy, and TT. It's too cold there. Who needs an NBA Championship ring anyway if it means having to scrape ice off the windshield? Don't feel bad, I wouldn't have signed with Chicago to play with Michael if I had been around back then, either."


Again Pros, not sure what you're basing your argument on. No what supports mine? THE ENTIRE LIFE OF THE HORRIBLE F-ING FRANCHISE. You can't name 5 good free agents that have been here, you can't name good free agents here now, and you won't be able to name any in the future.

Now all of the sudden they are going to drop from the sky to play with Dion Waiters and Jarret Jack.

Jesus H.

And by the way when Lebron WAS here, you drew Larry Hughes and Atawan Jamison. Yeah, really drew the greats.

Lebron ain't comin. But, if you wanna make a fool of yourself devising all kinds of great ideas as to why he would, have at it.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:02 am

You keep talking about the history of the Cavs, as if prospective free agents care about what happened the last 40 years.

For the first time in their history the Cavs will have two things at the same time - a core of young talent and the cap space to sign a max player. Have the Cavs ever set themselves up in a position like this before? Not to my knowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Mary Schimdt Boyer says the Cavs can afford to sign Deng and also offer LeBron a max contract, if they do some "roster manipulation". So if LeBron is offered a max contract by his hometown team that also features Kyrie, Waiters, Jack, Deng, Thompson, Bennett, and Varajao, he's not going to consider it because of the weather?

Again, look at the ages of the players on Miami's roster. It's shocking.

I think LeBron places more importance on winning NBA Championships than on not having to wear a coat in wintertime, and if he feels the Cavs with LeBron will be a better team than Miami or LA with LeBron, he'll come back for the last few years of his career. He can live in Florida for the rest of his life if he likes it so much.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:20 am

Actually, no one does go to the T-Wolves, Pistons or Sixers and the others are all huge media markets that offer far more than a bad basketball experience.

This is basketball Siberia. In fact, this is a lot closer to actual Siberia than it is to Miami.

Not coming back here.

No reason to. For the reasons above as well as the fact that the "talent" here isn't special. There are young players and teams that have as much or more all over the place.

No use resurrecting all this. Go back to the LeBron leaving threads and there are 5,000 thoughts on it.

They apply now as they did when he left.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:23 am

Pros, it's not just about the cold and scraping windshields. It's about the nightlife and things of that nature. You're not going to get a club scene in Cleveland like you have in a place like NY, Miami, or LA. That won't matter everybody, but it will matter to some. And it might matter to LeBron too.

You're not incorrect when you say that there's a decent young core here that LeBron might be able to win a Championship with. But you go list guys like Jack, Thompson, and Bennett as part of why it would be so attractive to come here. Why the hell would LeBron care about playing with those guys? He can play with those guys anywhere.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:01 pm

The reasons are without question predominantly basketball, but don't discount the scraping of the windshield.

Many who discount this have never experienced the opposite. Once these guys go to a fantastic climate - they ain't comin' back. And for those that think Miami is a broke ass-pit, well, there's validity to that. Just that Lebron ain't travelin' thru the pork-n-beans district.

And he did marry that wife - ton of ways to kick her to the curb or never marry her. So, it does carry SOME weight. Christ, she just opened a juice bar in South friggin' beach and she ain't gonna have nothin' to say about comin' back here?

Stop. Just stop.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:41 pm

You guys might very well be right in that the combination of the juice bar, sunshine, and night life will keep LeBron in Miami the rest of his career. I think a lot will depend on the Heat's management being able to shape their roster so that the 34-39 year olds they have now will be replaced with younger, but still affordable guys that LeBron can win Championships with.

I don't know if the money they are paying LeBron, Bosh, and Wade will prevent them from adding significant free agents to replace the aging role players they have now. Maybe they'll continue to get veterans who are willing to take a huge discount to play their last couple of years in a fun, warm-weather town and compete for NBA titles. If they can, then LeBron will stay there.

My take on LeBron is that he is one of those guys who is fiercely focused on getting rings, and stuff like weather and night life doesn't mean much in comparison. Especially since he has six months out of the year when he can live anywhere he wants, plus the rest of his life after he retires from the NBA.

I'm not saying he'll come back to Cleveland. Just that it's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility.

Wierd stuff happens. If I posted after the Baron Davis trade that we would end up with Kyrie Irving, I would have been ridiculed. But it happened. If I posted after last season that we would sign Bynum, that he would be starting by the second game of the season, and we would flip him for Luol Deng, people would have howled with laughter. Nothing good ever happens to the Cavs, right? Never say never.
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Re: LeBron back?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:12 pm

Prosecutor wrote:You guys might very well be right in that the combination of the juice bar, sunshine, and night life will keep LeBron in Miami the rest of his career. I think a lot will depend on the Heat's management being able to shape their roster so that the 34-39 year olds they have now will be replaced with younger, but still affordable guys that LeBron can win Championships with.

I don't know if the money they are paying LeBron, Bosh, and Wade will prevent them from adding significant free agents to replace the aging role players they have now. Maybe they'll continue to get veterans who are willing to take a huge discount to play their last couple of years in a fun, warm-weather town and compete for NBA titles. If they can, then LeBron will stay there.

My take on LeBron is that he is one of those guys who is fiercely focused on getting rings, and stuff like weather and night life doesn't mean much in comparison. Especially since he has six months out of the year when he can live anywhere he wants, plus the rest of his life after he retires from the NBA.

I'm not saying he'll come back to Cleveland. Just that it's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility.

Wierd stuff happens. If I posted after the Baron Davis trade that we would end up with Kyrie Irving, I would have been ridiculed. But it happened. If I posted after last season that we would sign Bynum, that he would be starting by the second game of the season, and we would flip him for Luol Deng, people would have howled with laughter. Nothing good ever happens to the Cavs, right? Never say never.


Signing a bum and a jag-off like Bynum, and flipping him for a guy they are gonna have to either A. Grossly overpay with a max contract or B. Watch him walk.

Explain how that helps the future.

Deng is the latest Paul Kruger. Kruger would rather be about dead then be here, but, pay him ridiculous money - not only ridiculous money, but money so ridiculous nobody else will pay it, and he'll stick around awhile.

As far as turning Baron Davis into Irving - you might not want to rely on those types of percentages. Hopefully that comes around again in 20 years. Hopefully.

And Irving is counting the days he'll chizzle no more.
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