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Chud The Pud

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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:24 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Yet they couldn't wait for Roman or McCoy to become available, couldn't wait to give Zim his second interview, couldn't wait for Arians to get out of the hospital, bc Chud wowed you so much you just had to have him right fucking now? Was Chud in such high demand that you would lose him by waiting a week or two? Did you overreact to losing Marrone?


Stepping back, the more I see the more I think they wanted their guy ASAP. They all but had a limo waiting for Kelly right after the Fiesta Bowl. Less panic, much more impatience?


If true, is that better?

Is being too impatient to interview some very viable candidates the way that successful professionals roll? Seems more like something a stupid silver-spoon recluse billionaire would do.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:26 pm

googleeph2 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
Gradysmanldy wrote:Chud/Roman/Horton was the best of the choices I saw them being able to land, anyway.


Add in McCoy too. Process(tm), however, dictated putting the coach before filling out the PPD staff and every day without that staff was a day not getting ready for free agency and the draft. Jimmy 'n Joe wanted their guy sooner rather than potentially right after Super Bowl Sunday, so no Roman and McCoy and here we are.

If they made the wise decision, well, we'll have to wait and see.

This is my main problem with Jimmy Joe at this time. They had some guys in mind that would be their big splash and then they had their Lombardi backups. Well, they missed o the Big Splashes and got surprised when their Lombardi backups went to Happy Valley and Buffalo.

Sure, you lok stupid, you're left with your pud in your hand. So you reboot and do a proper search.

Yet they couldn't wait for Roman or McCoy to become available, couldn't wait to give Zim his second interview, couldn't wait for Arians to get out of the hospital, bc Chud wowed you so much you just had to have him right fucking now? Was Chud in such high demand that you would lose him by waiting a week or two? Did you overreact to losing Marrone?

Basically, they whiffed on Coaching Hire Tactic #1 (go straight after your guy) then fucked up Coaching Hire Tactic #2 (conduct a proper search).

Again, I'm not holding what Jimmy Joe done against Chud since it's not his fault they suck. Bad GM's accidentally pick great players from time to time. But damn if it doesn't kill any faith y'all had in any decision Jimmy Joe makes (if you had any in the first place).

Good luck, Chud. You'll need it with these jackasses in charge.


Assuming I am not speaking out of line- Any interest in fleshing this out in screenplay format, and having it posted on the front page?


That might be let's-stretch-The-Hobbit-into-3-movies long.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby googleeph2 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:33 pm

Hikohadon wrote:That might be let's-stretch-The-Hobbit-into-3-movies long.


I hope you are not saying there's not enough subject matter to fill an article.
Much of the entertainment value would be in the character development, which could be plenty lengthy enough on its own.

If you are saying it would be longer than one article... well, so?
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:38 pm

Larvell Blanks wrote:I don't know if Chud is Halas or Kotite but I think you can agree he was not on the list of top coaches being sought out.


Goes back to what pup was talking about. Who were the top coaches then?
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:42 pm

Hikohadon wrote:If true, is that better?

Is being too impatient to interview some very viable candidates the way that successful professionals roll? Seems more like something a stupid silver-spoon recluse billionaire would do.


Honestly, not really. And that would depend on The Process(tm) taken. Heck if I know. I need more to go on, right now all I have is innuendo and smoke signals.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:53 pm

googleeph2 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:That might be let's-stretch-The-Hobbit-into-3-movies long.


I hope you are not saying there's not enough subject matter to fill an article.
Much of the entertainment value would be in the character development, which could be plenty lengthy enough on its own.

If you are saying it would be longer than one article... well, so?


Just saying The Hobbit was overly long, as that article would be.

I mean, the scene where Jimmy is doing body shots off of strippers as Banner sips a Shirley Temple as they celebrate "landing" Chip Kelly would take at least 30 pages.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:54 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
Larvell Blanks wrote:I don't know if Chud is Halas or Kotite but I think you can agree he was not on the list of top coaches being sought out.


Goes back to what pup was talking about. Who were the top coaches then?


Their home run picks were most likely

Saban
Kelly
Marrone
O'Brien


2nd tier would be
Wisenhunt
McCoy
Zimmerman
Chud

Banner is touting that he was going after the top people available. Until this week, was there any word that Chud was a hot commodity? Was he being labled as the next must have person around the league?
Last edited by Larvell Blanks on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby googleeph2 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:54 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Goes back to what pup was talking about. Who were the top coaches then?


Doesn't really matter. HasBeen, on their own, had deliberately managed the expectations for a top coach.

They ended up with someone from the third tier of candidates. Really hope that it works out, but it's perfectly reasonable for the reaction to range between shrugging disappointment (me) and pointing and laughing.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:20 pm

Larvell Blanks wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
Larvell Blanks wrote:I don't know if Chud is Halas or Kotite but I think you can agree he was not on the list of top coaches being sought out.


Goes back to what pup was talking about. Who were the top coaches then?


Their home run picks were most likely

Saban
Kelly
Marrone
O'Brien


2nd tier would be
Wisenhunt
McCoy
Zimmerman
Chud

Banner is touting that he was going after the top people available. Until this week, was there any word that Chud was a hot commodity? Was he being labled as the next must have person around the league?


So, 2 guys that they had strong indication were interested in coming to the NFL, but instead used the NFL to get what they want.

1 guy that sounds like was never leaving and they never indicated they thought they had any shot at. Media made Saban out to be a candidate way more than anyone in the org.

1 guy that decided it was so likely the top choice was taking the job, he couldn't wait 12 more hours because the Bills job was too good to pass up.

And everyone else. You want to differentiate between the coordinators, feel free. All have strengths and weaknesses. And in less you were in that room, you have no idea how those interviews went. I find it so hard to believe nobody on these forums have left interviewing someone and said "that is my hire".
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:32 pm

They can make it better if Turner and Horton are the two DC's. And before this gets completely off the tracks, Chud is Chud. Some of the same people trumpeting his arrival here today as the HC were bitching and laughing about him when he was here and when Cam fell on his face.

I'm disappointed. Not so much because of what Chud is or isn't. But because again the regime is pissing down our legs and telling it's raining. They went to Vegas as a couple dorks, went to a strip club, couldn't get the hot chick to play and then flew to Carolina and married another chick two days after meeting her.

This one was never the one. He may turn out to be Don Shula, bully for us. We'll forget then real quick what a couple tools Banner and Haslam look like today.

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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:38 pm

pup wrote:
Larvell Blanks wrote:
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
Larvell Blanks wrote:I don't know if Chud is Halas or Kotite but I think you can agree he was not on the list of top coaches being sought out.


Goes back to what pup was talking about. Who were the top coaches then?


Their home run picks were most likely

Saban
Kelly
Marrone
O'Brien


2nd tier would be
Wisenhunt
McCoy
Zimmerman
Chud

Banner is touting that he was going after the top people available. Until this week, was there any word that Chud was a hot commodity? Was he being labled as the next must have person around the league?


So, 2 guys that they had strong indication were interested in coming to the NFL, but instead used the NFL to get what they want.

1 guy that sounds like was never leaving and they never indicated they thought they had any shot at. Media made Saban out to be a candidate way more than anyone in the org.

1 guy that decided it was so likely the top choice was taking the job, he couldn't wait 12 more hours because the Bills job was too good to pass up.

And everyone else. You want to differentiate between the coordinators, feel free. All have strengths and weaknesses. And in less you were in that room, you have no idea how those interviews went. I find it so hard to believe nobody on these forums have left interviewing someone and said "that is my hire".


I was asked who the top choices were and ranked them how I thought Haslem and Banner would have most likely ranked them going into the process. How they interviewed when they met with Haslem and Banner is only known by the 3 guys in the room at that time.

As I said upthread, I don't know if Chud will be the answer or a bunch of question marks. Hopefully for this franchise he's the answer. My point in posting that link is Banner came out and said he was going after the top guys available while others have posted that the statement was created by other sources outside the organization. The assumption would be the league wide concensus top guys is who the Browns were going after. At no point after Black Monday did I hear or read that Chud was at the top of anyone's list for any of the openings.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:49 pm

Finally watched the press conference from this morning:

**Jimmy states at the beginning that Chud grew up in Canton, OH (he's from Toldeo). Chud doesn't correct him.

**Jimmy makes me long for the days of an owner you never heard speak. Freakin' politician.

**First couple sentences: "Process", "Pieces and parts". Puke.

**Like what I hear from Chud a lot more than from Jimmy or the Toad.

**Like the "attacking" of both O and D.

**Said whether they run 4-3 or 3-4 depends on the DC, that it would probably be a hybrid of both.

**I still watch games from outside in the winter.

**Easily more likable than Shurmur. A starving hyena is more likable than Shurmur.

**Agree with Haslam's assessment that it was more important to hire an offensive coach - provided of course that no candidates set themselves apart otherwise.

**Haslam said that all the other coordinators they talked to around the league for references on these guys said they never knew what Chud would run.

**Banner: "Chud's anecdotal stories convinced me that he was the kind of leader we needed." - What???

**Unless I missed it, it seems like ClevelandBrowns.com cut out the part of the presser where Tony Grossi questioned Banner about Lombardi. Nice.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:52 pm

Hybrid 3-4 is what Horton ran in Phoenix, from what I read.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby googleeph2 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:53 pm

pup wrote:I find it so hard to believe nobody on these forums have left interviewing someone and said "that is my hire".


Hopefully it plays out great. Maybe that's how it went with Chud. I do believe he is a good offensive mind. He must have sold his leadership skills. But this is different than just one of us interviewing someone and knowing they are the one.

This, again, is in the context of publicly setting the bar high on their own hiring, then getting shunned by the first choice and as Hiko said, missing on the next tier (Lombardi guys). This is the main issue.

I am not as concerned as some on them rushing to take a guy from tier 3 who didn't seem to be in play for anyone else. Ensures the most candidates for assistant and personnel positions are still available.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:16 pm

As pointed out by many, it isn't necessarily that they ended up with Chud, who in my opinion is a better candidate than many of the first and second tier guys. It's about Jimmy Joe's questionable decision making and their inability to close and what that means for the future.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby dpdad » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:55 pm

Heard on the radio going home that Chud has never coached in a playoff game. That doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:05 pm

The stuff Banner said before the search, about the story and going after the top guys, what team doesn't say that?

Even if the following is true who says, "Ya, fucking town is a cursed shithole. We'll settle."

I'm apethetic. If they do well I'll follow, if they blow its more of the usual.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Big Money Player » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:16 pm

Hi Peeker, didn't get a chance to read any of this...how do you feel about the Chud hire?
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:26 pm

Hikohadon wrote:As pointed out by many, it isn't necessarily that they ended up with Chud, who in my opinion is a better candidate than many of the first and second tier guys. It's about Jimmy Joe's questionable decision making and their inability to close and what that means for the future.


So, because Chip Kelly was 98% going to the show, then bailed at the 23rd and a half hour, they have questionable decision making skills?

Sometimes, in this world, you just get FUBAR at the worst possible moment. Jimmy and Joe didn't mention Chip having a staff in place. Jimmy and Joe didn't discuss Oregon's OC being promoted. Jimmy and Joe didn't call Jabrone Marrone and tell him to jump on Buffalo job because Chip was a done deal to Cleveland.

The guy snowed everyone. Bully for him.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:37 pm

After taking a couple hours reading up on all the posts in here, I'm 50% of the way to being happy about this hire. I'm normally too optimistic about the Browns so yeah, 50% is pretty bad.

But hey, the pros: He's better than SHUR. And by better, I don't mean marginally; I think he's way better-which still can't be much of a compliment by any means. With his experience in calling plays, he now has an idea as to what works, and what doesn't. I think he'd highly disapprove of the WCO and our abysmal playcalling from this year. If we gave SHUR another go-around next year, we'd still see more of the same.

Don't care much about the 'He grew up a Browns fan so he wants them to do good' bit. Every coach thats came thru here has wanted to succeed, but hasn't. It's the means by which I think Chud will take, that will get this team to succeed. I hope&think that he'll be the one coach that finally lights a fire under these guys asses each and every week to go out and win; not go out to not lose.

Maybe (hopefully) the flat reaction from this hire will encourage the 2 up top to go out and get some more qualified/desirable candidates for the GM/DC positions.

If he's good, we'll know week 1. We'll see a completely different/fully functional offense that we should've seen this year. If the GM/DC's good we'll draft the right pieces to our puzzle and the defense will be marginally better. Only time will tell.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:42 pm

Like the "hybrid" idea. Make the other guys have to scheme for 2 kinds of D. Sheared does play standing up a lot. And as was pointed out earlier...if it's a Gap fire 1 then our DT's fit the mold. Gap fire 2 is Rob Ryan's defense, so he might not be the right guy. I say keep Dick J as DC and see if he'll agree to modifying his sceme to "hybrid" mode. His defense is quite vanilla, I doubt the players would have difficulty picking up a simplified 3-4.

But you'd still need that DE, 2-3 more LB's, 2 corners, and a safety, regardless of whatever scheme you use.

---

Sounds like Lombardi is under the bus. Perhaps he told Haslem he could deliver one of "his" guys, shit the bed, and now the new owner realizes what a complete idiot he is.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:54 pm

pup wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:As pointed out by many, it isn't necessarily that they ended up with Chud, who in my opinion is a better candidate than many of the first and second tier guys. It's about Jimmy Joe's questionable decision making and their inability to close and what that means for the future.


So, because Chip Kelly was 98% going to the show, then bailed at the 23rd and a half hour, they have questionable decision making skills?

Sometimes, in this world, you just get FUBAR at the worst possible moment. Jimmy and Joe didn't mention Chip having a staff in place. Jimmy and Joe didn't discuss Oregon's OC being promoted. Jimmy and Joe didn't call Jabrone Marrone and tell him to jump on Buffalo job because Chip was a done deal to Cleveland.

The guy snowed everyone. Bully for him.


When did you hear Chud was in play, Pup? And when did they hire him? Chud said it was Tuesday evening. Maybe you know better?

You're way too bright to believe he was on the first page. So please don't play it off like he was or that he was a gleam in their eyes til about 36 hours before they got on their knees and offered up a ring.

Can he work out? Yeah. As much so as anyone else on the list. I agree with that. But please don't buy what they're selling on this whole thing. And Chud had ZERO interviews for any other job. None scheduled by his own admission. Why NOT fucking wait til after this weekend or later and talk to guys who actually have a winning pedigree? Why not wait forever (when Chud would still be hoping for a call) and talk to all remaining candidates?

Come on, ladies. You're NOT this blind or this ignorant. You're just not.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:58 pm

bookelly wrote:Like the "hybrid" idea. Make the other guys have to scheme for 2 kinds of D. Sheared does play standing up a lot. And as was pointed out earlier...if it's a Gap fire 1 then our DT's fit the mold. Gap fire 2 is Rob Ryan's defense, so he might not be the right guy. I say keep Dick J as DC and see if he'll agree to modifying his sceme to "hybrid" mode. His defense is quite vanilla, I doubt the players would have difficulty picking up a simplified 3-4.

But you'd still need that DE, 2-3 more LB's, 2 corners, and a safety, regardless of whatever scheme you use.

---

Sounds like Lombardi is under the bus. Perhaps he told Haslem he could deliver one of "his" guys, shit the bed, and now the new owner realizes what a complete idiot he is.


Not directed at this post per se, but Jauron is gone as yesterday.

And an attacking 3-4 requires an overhaul. Hate to break it to y'all. Maybe you can use some of the talent at interior DL and recoup a 2nd rounder, but attacking 3-4 ain't in play for this roster. There is absolutely no way Rubin and Taylor are out there together for extended periods of 3-4 attack play. Argue that Wynn is a 3-4 DE and argue where Sheard fits (and he does) but you don't have but one effing legit LB on the roster and he's a midget/sideline to sideline dude. Yes, you have $47 million and that can buy you some groceries, but if you think this team is set up or has the personnel to run an attacking 3-4 you're more effed in the head than someone who thinks Chud was on Jimmuh's speed dial a week ago.

Taylor, Rubin, Rucker, Parker, Winn, Kitchen, Sheard.... I really hope Chud's DC stays with a 3-4 and upgrades FS, a CB and a couple LBS. That's a lot in itself. Going 3-4 is absolute pandemonium although the draft is filthy in seriously talented guys who could play it.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:58 pm

dpdad wrote:Heard on the radio going home that Chud has never coached in a playoff game. That doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.


Why, that just means he has nothing to be nervous about his season.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:05 am

I'll be upset when Chip Kelly or Josh McDaniels take a HC job in the NFL in the next month.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:09 am

FUDU wrote:I'll be upset when Chip Kelly or Josh McDaniels take a HC job in the NFL in the next month.


Bwah!!!

Same guys who have no concept of acquisition costs of drafted players or value per pick are gonna be right with with ya on that. So you'll have a HUGE crowd behind ya, many of whom post here.

Keep believing, Donny. Keep dreaming.

God forbid someone around here actually understand the 'process' word thrown around here so often and actually adhere to its disciplines and meaning. Why do people here use it and why do our regime leaders fall back on it if they have no concept of what it actually means?

Wait... I know the answer to that... it's actually because it impresses, baffles and confuses 90% of their clientele.

Carry on...
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:20 am

Proof we're not alone:

Anyone catch the Cowboys hiring Monte Kiffin? Anyone affiliated with Dallas notice the perhaps USC's largest problem this year was that they were unable to stop anything that resembled a modern football offense?

They should be able to stop last years Browns and the Jets. Not sure that's gonna be enough to get them to the Bowl.

Christ, I sarcastically ask some of the humps on these boards if they watch the games. That's an actual valid question to ask the Dallas front office.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:21 am

peeker643 wrote:
FUDU wrote:I'll be upset when Chip Kelly or Josh McDaniels take a HC job in the NFL in the next month.


Bwah!!!

Same guys who have no concept of acquisition costs of drafted players or value per pick are gonna be right with with ya on that. So you'll have a HUGE crowd behind ya, many of whom post here.

Keep believing, Donny. Keep dreaming.

God forbid someone around here actually understand the 'process' word thrown around here so often and actually adhere to its disciplines and meaning. Why do people here use it and why do our regime leaders fall back on it if they have no concept of what it actually means?

Wait... I know the answer to that... it's actually because it impresses, baffles and confuses 90% of their clientele.

Carry on...


Other than Wisenhunt (b/c of his experience) there isn't one guy that we truly missed the boat on in our quest for a HC this time around. If there was it would be easy to comprise a list of hands down better hires, and see Chud way down that list. Said list would only end up in arguing stats and rankings of said candidates units anyway, which ultimately proves nothing and offers zero guarantees.

Look, I'm not saying this hire is tits, or even good, it's pretty much what every other hire of a guy with no previous HC experience in the NFL would be. A hire with a legit risk : reward.

Call people blind for not seeing this FO as the joke you think it is (I could care less, b/c this FO hasn't proven anything about anything to me) but don't pretend Chip Kelly was coming to the NFL by any means and we just blew it, that's blind.

Like I said, if Chip or Josh are standing at a podium in Feb as the HC of another team then I'll be upset.

Look at it this way, none of us are doing what we dreamed we'd be doing for a living as kids, or what we told people we would...except mo, so didn't we all settle and aren't we all full of shit.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:17 am

bookelly wrote:Like the "hybrid" idea. Make the other guys have to scheme for 2 kinds of D. Sheared does play standing up a lot. And as was pointed out earlier...if it's a Gap fire 1 then our DT's fit the mold. Gap fire 2 is Rob Ryan's defense, so he might not be the right guy. I say keep Dick J as DC and see if he'll agree to modifying his sceme to "hybrid" mode. His defense is quite vanilla, I doubt the players would have difficulty picking up a simplified 3-4.

But you'd still need that DE, 2-3 more LB's, 2 corners, and a safety, regardless of whatever scheme you use.

---

Sounds like Lombardi is under the bus. Perhaps he told Haslem he could deliver one of "his" guys, shit the bed, and now the new owner realizes what a complete idiot he is.

Peeks is right, 3-4, 4-3... Jauron is gonzo. Chud made sure to specify "attacking" in his pressed, and that just ain't Dick's style.

And no matter what D they run, their first pick should be used on a pass rusher.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby justmebd » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:50 am

I said it at the beginning of this conversation, and I'll say it again, nobody knows how this hire will work itself out. Nobody.

In two or three years, Haslem and Banner either will look like geniuses, or just another victim of the Giant Black Hole of Suck that is the Cleveland Sports Arena.

I think Chud won the press conference, which means absolutely nothing, but since Shurmur couldn't even win that much, I look at it as a step in the right direction.

This is a new ownership group, so I'll give them a chance to let me down before I stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:58 am

You guys do remember Chud was fired because he wasn't very good at his job. As a football coach. So there's that.

And there was some talent and cohesion on the defense last year. The D-line is quality, linebackers were averageish, and the secondary was bad. Moving to a 3-4 is a big mistake with the current roster. We've been through this before. Playing guys out of position, drafting on athleticism and projections as opposed to gametape. It isn't pretty. I'd imagine this won't be either.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Pabo » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:00 am

Did anyone ask Chud what 8 + 3 was? If he happens to know that it's eleven, we're already ahead of that assclown Shurmur.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:34 am

justmebd wrote:I said it at the beginning of this conversation, and I'll say it again, nobody knows how this hire will work itself out. Nobody.

In two or three years, Haslem and Banner either will look like geniuses, or just another victim of the Giant Black Hole of Suck that is the Cleveland Sports Arena.

I think Chud won the press conference, which means absolutely nothing, but since Shurmur couldn't even win that much, I look at it as a step in the right direction.

This is a new ownership group, so I'll give them a chance to let me down before I stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.


I've read this argument a bunch and it doesn't make sense to me. Of course nobody knows how it will work out. If they hired Pee Wee Herman nobody would know how this would work out. We'd all have out suspicions but we wouldn't know for sure.

One big problem was this seemingly incompetent bumblefart of a search resulting in yet another guy who was really on nobodies short list. The other problem is the guy they hired, but as you said, it might work out. I hope it does.

But nothing about anything that has transpired with this new ownership since they took the reins in October gives me any real reason to hope that they got it right this time.

Admittedly, Chud is probably a step above Pee Wee.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:11 am

motherscratcher wrote:
justmebd wrote:I said it at the beginning of this conversation, and I'll say it again, nobody knows how this hire will work itself out. Nobody.

In two or three years, Haslem and Banner either will look like geniuses, or just another victim of the Giant Black Hole of Suck that is the Cleveland Sports Arena.

I think Chud won the press conference, which means absolutely nothing, but since Shurmur couldn't even win that much, I look at it as a step in the right direction.

This is a new ownership group, so I'll give them a chance to let me down before I stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.


I've read this argument a bunch and it doesn't make sense to me. Of course nobody knows how it will work out. If they hired Pee Wee Herman nobody would know how this would work out. We'd all have out suspicions but we wouldn't know for sure.

One big problem was this seemingly incompetent bumblefart of a search resulting in yet another guy who was really on nobodies short list. The other problem is the guy they hired, but as you said, it might work out. I hope it does.

But nothing about anything that has transpired with this new ownership since they took the reins in October gives me any real reason to hope that they got it right this time.



Can you please explain this to FUDU? Because he's still stuck on specific names and comparisons as opposed to the overriding factors of HOW they went about it.

I get not many people care. Just like not many people care about three picks to move up and get TRich ( WE GOT TRICH!!!! RARGHH!!) or why I was initially bent about pick #22 being a reach last season (BIG ARM!!!BETTER THAN #12!!!).

I get it. I think it's short-sighted and ignorant but I get it.

And no one has yet answered why yesterday. WHY YESTERDAY? Chud hadn't interviewed for another HC gig and wasn't likely to/scheduled to. He was always gonna be there. Like the chick who's always loved you and had the hots for ya and would be there if ya called tomorrow, not giving a shit if you're drunk or married or anything else.

So he would have been there. Why not wait and talk to McCoy, Roman, etc?

There isn't a single, good reason. And if you say they'd lose Norv Turner I'm banning your ass from here. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby General » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:54 am

peeker643 wrote:And no one has yet answered why yesterday. WHY YESTERDAY? Chud hadn't interviewed for another HC gig and wasn't likely to/scheduled to. He was always gonna be there. Like the chick who's always loved you and had the hots for ya and would be there if ya called tomorrow, not giving a shit if you're drunk or married or anything else.



That "chick" totally ruined my 20 year reunion. :pb:
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:01 pm

peeker643 wrote:
And no one has yet answered why yesterday. WHY YESTERDAY? Chud hadn't interviewed for another HC gig and wasn't likely to/scheduled to. He was always gonna be there.


Because he was born in Ohio and "gets" the Steeler "rivalry"?

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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby pup » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:04 pm

Because they determined they were not interested in interviewing McCoy and Roman. For whatever reason, they determined those guys were not worth waiting on.

It is like asking why Andy Reid did not wait to be interviewed by every team with an opening. Why did Marrone sign with Buffalo so soon? Wouldn't he be better off waiting to evaluate every opening and taking every interview?

Peek. You ever made a hiring decision? You should have waited longer to make the hire because maybe a week later a better candidate would have become available.

It is stupid if they settled in the name of quickness. It is not stupid if they identified what they were looking for, found it and moved forward. We know where you stand. Again, your choice. Which is cool. Just doesn't mean you are correct though.

If you have predetermined Banner is an idiot, and Jimmy is a tool then whoevers name is in Chud's place was going to be a disaster. Again, your choice. Which is cool. Just doesn't mean you are correct though.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:14 pm

pup wrote:Because they determined they were not interested in interviewing McCoy and Roman. For whatever reason, they determined those guys were not worth waiting on.

It is like asking why Andy Reid did not wait to be interviewed by every team with an opening. Why did Marrone sign with Buffalo so soon? Wouldn't he be better off waiting to evaluate every opening and taking every interview?

Peek. You ever made a hiring decision? You should have waited longer to make the hire because maybe a week later a better candidate would have become available.

It is stupid if they settled in the name of quickness. It is not stupid if they identified what they were looking for, found it and moved forward. We know where you stand. Again, your choice. Which is cool. Just doesn't mean you are correct though.

If you have predetermined Banner is an idiot, and Jimmy is a tool then whoevers name is in Chud's place was going to be a disaster. Again, your choice. Which is cool. Just doesn't mean you are correct though.


Well that's excellent. Why bother talking to successful guys who've been adaptable to various QBs and variables and still won? That's crazy to want to talk to those guys. :hide:

And I don't (didn't) think Banner is an idiot and Haslam is a tool.

But we can certainly discuss it now that we have this bit of evidence to go on.

And yeah, I've made hiring decisions. And if I KNOW there are qualified candidates available in a few days or 2 1/2 weeks at most and I know the people I've got on the vine aren't going anywhere, I'm using that leverage to interview the next group.

I'm not going to argue just how fantastically stupid it is not to.

I can't win that argument with people who don't or won't try and understand it.

Y'all can play 3-5 offsuit and maybe win a hand or two. Maybe even a huge pot. But go ahead and keep playing it. See how long it takes before you're broke.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby pup » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:23 pm

peeker643 wrote:
pup wrote:Because they determined they were not interested in interviewing McCoy and Roman. For whatever reason, they determined those guys were not worth waiting on.

It is like asking why Andy Reid did not wait to be interviewed by every team with an opening. Why did Marrone sign with Buffalo so soon? Wouldn't he be better off waiting to evaluate every opening and taking every interview?

Peek. You ever made a hiring decision? You should have waited longer to make the hire because maybe a week later a better candidate would have become available.

It is stupid if they settled in the name of quickness. It is not stupid if they identified what they were looking for, found it and moved forward. We know where you stand. Again, your choice. Which is cool. Just doesn't mean you are correct though.

If you have predetermined Banner is an idiot, and Jimmy is a tool then whoevers name is in Chud's place was going to be a disaster. Again, your choice. Which is cool. Just doesn't mean you are correct though.


Well that's excellent. Why bother talking to successful guys who've been adaptable to various QBs and variables and still won? That's crazy to want to talk to those guys. :hide:

And I don't (didn't) think Banner is an idiot and Haslam is a tool.

But we can certainly discuss it now that we have this bit of evidence to go on.

And yeah, I've made hiring decisions. And if I KNOW there are qualified candidates available in a few days or 2 1/2 weeks at most and I know the people I've got on the vine aren't going anywhere, I'm using that leverage to interview the next group.

I'm not going to argue just how fantastically stupid it is not to.

I can't win that argument with people who don't or won't try and understand it.

Y'all can play 3-5 offsuit and maybe win a hand or two. Maybe even a huge pot. But go ahead and keep playing it. See how long it takes before you're broke.


Well, my mistake for putting timing to the hiring. Those 2.5 weeks in our lives is like 6 months in the NFL. Is KC and Buffalo as dumb as the Browns are? Why didn't they wait for these shoe ins?

They had a list of credentials. Sounds to me like they did due diligence through discussions with other people in the league to determine who would fit. The result was apperantly that those guys did not fit the model they were looking for, so they determined they did not need to wait to interview them.

You can go ahead and wait for pocket aces to call the big. You might survive longer, but you ain't winning either.

Jimmy and Joe have basically been around two head coach hirings in their NFL lives. Andy Reid and Mike Tomlin. Yet we expected something different than either of those guys in this search?
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby gameface » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:27 pm

Are McCoy and Roman that much more of a sure thing than Chudzinsky? When you say they "still won", do you mean W-L or offensive ranking? Not being a dick, asking honestly if Chud's work with DA and Cam under bad Defense oriented HC's (Rivera + Uncle Romeo) is not in the same ballpark as McCoy and Roman under Fox and Harbaugh.

Chudzinsky had DA and Newton, one poor and one excellent.
McCoy did well with Tebow and not so hot with Grossman, I can't even count Manning b/c I could coach that guy to success.
Roman was awesome with Smith, Kaepernick is a work in progress, how much help he gets from Harbaugh is unknown.
Both the Niners and Broncs have awesome defenses helping their causes, the Panthers, not so much.

How do you factor those situations into your assessment of Chudzinsky vs the other two. And do you really believe that no other team building new staffs might have hired him had the Browns waited?
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:45 pm

gameface wrote:How do you factor those situations into your assessment of Chudzinsky vs the other two. And do you really believe that no other team building new staffs might have hired him had the Browns waited?


You do not need to factor in anything if you simply wait until Monday when 4 OCs and 4 DCs from pretty decent teams won't have much to do except watch and book airfare to Mobile. And no I don't think any other teams would have come calling. BTW, under which HC did Chud learn how to lead a team and be an NFL head coach himself?
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:18 pm

pup wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
pup wrote:Because they determined they were not interested in interviewing McCoy and Roman. For whatever reason, they determined those guys were not worth waiting on.

It is like asking why Andy Reid did not wait to be interviewed by every team with an opening. Why did Marrone sign with Buffalo so soon? Wouldn't he be better off waiting to evaluate every opening and taking every interview?

Peek. You ever made a hiring decision? You should have waited longer to make the hire because maybe a week later a better candidate would have become available.

It is stupid if they settled in the name of quickness. It is not stupid if they identified what they were looking for, found it and moved forward. We know where you stand. Again, your choice. Which is cool. Just doesn't mean you are correct though.

If you have predetermined Banner is an idiot, and Jimmy is a tool then whoevers name is in Chud's place was going to be a disaster. Again, your choice. Which is cool. Just doesn't mean you are correct though.


Well that's excellent. Why bother talking to successful guys who've been adaptable to various QBs and variables and still won? That's crazy to want to talk to those guys. :hide:

And I don't (didn't) think Banner is an idiot and Haslam is a tool.

But we can certainly discuss it now that we have this bit of evidence to go on.

And yeah, I've made hiring decisions. And if I KNOW there are qualified candidates available in a few days or 2 1/2 weeks at most and I know the people I've got on the vine aren't going anywhere, I'm using that leverage to interview the next group.

I'm not going to argue just how fantastically stupid it is not to.

I can't win that argument with people who don't or won't try and understand it.

Y'all can play 3-5 offsuit and maybe win a hand or two. Maybe even a huge pot. But go ahead and keep playing it. See how long it takes before you're broke.


Well, my mistake for putting timing to the hiring. Those 2.5 weeks in our lives is like 6 months in the NFL. Is KC and Buffalo as dumb as the Browns are? Why didn't they wait for these shoe ins?

They had a list of credentials. Sounds to me like they did due diligence through discussions with other people in the league to determine who would fit. The result was apperantly that those guys did not fit the model they were looking for, so they determined they did not need to wait to interview them.

You can go ahead and wait for pocket aces to call the big. You might survive longer, but you ain't winning either.

Jimmy and Joe have basically been around two head coach hirings in their NFL lives. Andy Reid and Mike Tomlin. Yet we expected something different than either of those guys in this search?


Absolutely. Because there are no cards between 3-5 offsuit and AA that are better than slop. The next hand you're dealt is more than likely to be better.

And gameface, I'm referring to the success McCoy has had with three wildly different QBs and the success Roman has had with two. McCoy was able to utilize Orton, Tebow and Manning and handled each differently, implemented an offense around the three with decent results and adjusted when the next guy was up to bat. Roman has helped develop Alex Smith and Kaepernick. They were a muffed punt away from the Super Bowl last season when Smith enjoyed his best season and they've slid Kaepernick in almost seamlessly.

I'm not saying either would be better than Chud (who watched DA and Cam both regress before his eyes) but I'm saying there is absolutely no harm in talking to them and seeing if they are a fit here.

They didn't.

To me that's bad business.

No more, no less. For guys throwing 'process' around like it's their mantra, they certainly weren't beholden to a good one IMO.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby gameface » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:36 pm

mattvan1 wrote: BTW, under which HC did Chud learn how to lead a team and be an NFL head coach himself?


Great question, but hardly an indicator of success.

Romeo studied under Belichick and so did McDaniels, and their individual personalities were more indicative of how they did than who mentored them.

I'm sure there are reverse examples, but imo, it's not top of the list for hiring attributes.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby gameface » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:51 pm

peeker643 wrote:
And gameface, I'm referring to the success McCoy has had with three wildly different QBs and the success Roman has had with two. McCoy was able to utilize Orton, Tebow and Manning and handled each differently, implemented an offense around the three with decent results and adjusted when the next guy was up to bat. Roman has helped develop Alex Smith and Kaepernick. They were a muffed punt away from the Super Bowl last season when Smith enjoyed his best season and they've slid Kaepernick in almost seamlessly.

I'm not saying either would be better than Chud (who watched DA and Cam both regress before his eyes) but I'm saying there is absolutely no harm in talking to them and seeing if they are a fit here.

They didn't.

To me that's bad business.

No more, no less. For guys throwing 'process' around like it's their mantra, they certainly weren't beholden to a good one IMO.


Oops, mixed up Orton and Grossman, but I get your point. Just saying that Chud's success with DA and Cam is not that different than the examples you used. I discount Manning because, really, it'd be pretty difficult to mess him up. Not sure how to quantify what McCoy did to devleop Tebow other than install a college system for him. It's not like Tebow learned how to be a viable NFL QB under McCoy. Obviously that success wasn't sustainable (although you could say the same of Chud/DA). Likewise, not certain that Roman is the genius behind Smith and Kaepernick, or if it's Harbaugh's handiwork. Roman actually has less experience as an OC than Chud.

Understand your overall take, and wouldn't really debate it other than the nits above. My only other aside would be that as fans we're never privy to the actual interviews, and there may be something there that made HasBan feel they found their guy and didn't need to go any further. In their process, they did eliminate a number of other candidates, so they didn't simply hire Chudzinsky without some perspective on other candidates.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:01 pm

gameface wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
And gameface, I'm referring to the success McCoy has had with three wildly different QBs and the success Roman has had with two. McCoy was able to utilize Orton, Tebow and Manning and handled each differently, implemented an offense around the three with decent results and adjusted when the next guy was up to bat. Roman has helped develop Alex Smith and Kaepernick. They were a muffed punt away from the Super Bowl last season when Smith enjoyed his best season and they've slid Kaepernick in almost seamlessly.

I'm not saying either would be better than Chud (who watched DA and Cam both regress before his eyes) but I'm saying there is absolutely no harm in talking to them and seeing if they are a fit here.

They didn't.

To me that's bad business.

No more, no less. For guys throwing 'process' around like it's their mantra, they certainly weren't beholden to a good one IMO.


Oops, mixed up Orton and Grossman, but I get your point. Just saying that Chud's success with DA and Cam is not that different than the examples you used. I discount Manning because, really, it'd be pretty difficult to mess him up. Not sure how to quantify what McCoy did to devleop Tebow other than install a college system for him. It's not like Tebow learned how to be a viable NFL QB under McCoy. Obviously that success wasn't sustainable (although you could say the same of Chud/DA). Likewise, not certain that Roman is the genius behind Smith and Kaepernick, or if it's Harbaugh's handiwork. Roman actually has less experience as an OC than Chud.

Understand your overall take, and wouldn't really debate it other than the nits above. My only other aside would be that as fans we're never privy to the actual interviews, and there may be something there that made HasBan feel they found their guy and didn't need to go any further. In their process, they did eliminate a number of other candidates, so they didn't simply hire Chudzinsky without some perspective on other candidates.


Fair enough. McCoy did not turn Tebow into viable NFL QB but he did turn the offense into something that benefited the franchise when all he had was Tebow. That shows me something. And as far as Manning is concerned, again, you're right about what Manning brings but at least McCoy was able to see that too and step back and allow Manning to do what Manning can do. That also tells me something. He can and will build around what he has and be successful. He's not a slave to a given system and his ego can allow for a guy like Manning while his ability/creativity can benefit an Orton or Tebow. I think that's a great characteristic to have in a coach, especially after watching the Browns try and cram the square peg in a round hole and expend valuable resources trying to find a guy that woud fit their system as opposed to being versatile enough to adapt to some of the talent they have/had.

And again, I'm not saying Chud isn't/won't be better than those guys. Just seems to me they rushed into a decision after Kelly left them at the altar and didn't due their due diligence given that there were still others they could talk to. And after being dead-wrong about Holmgren's "search" that resulted in Shurmur being hired I'm really hyper-sensitive to that kind of thing at this point.

Just don't understand why you don't talk to them. Not privy to what they think and maybe they did reach out. I hope they did.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:08 pm

So awesome:

Mike Cairns ‏@MikeCairns5
Browns Coach Chud has reached out to Derek Anderson about coming to Cleveland. DA very interested in coming here most likely as backup


My hear rate quickens at the thought of DA and his twin brother as the top two QBs on the roster.

So exciting!

And they're contemporaries given DA is just four months older. No generation gap!!
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:09 pm

Mike Cairns ‏@MikeCairns5
Per @AdamSchefter #Browns targeting Chargers John Pagano as his defensive coordinator


No surprise. Chargers East is what this staff may look like when all is said and done.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby Triple-S » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:10 pm

Jesus.

F-That. I've suffered through enough terrible QB play, no f-ing reason to make suffer through more.

Here's a thought chud, DRAFT A QB IN THE LATE ROUNDS.
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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:13 pm

Triple-S wrote:Jesus.

F-That. I've suffered through enough terrible QB play, no f-ing reason to make suffer through more.

Here's a thought chud, DRAFT A QB IN THE LATE ROUNDS.


Even with the twins on the roster I'm sure they'll take a QB flyer at some point in the draft.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

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Re: Chud The Pud

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:44 pm

peeker643 wrote:So awesome:

Mike Cairns ‏@MikeCairns5
Browns Coach Chud has reached out to Derek Anderson about coming to Cleveland. DA very interested in coming here most likely as backup


My hear rate quickens at the thought of DA and his twin brother as the top two QBs on the roster.

So exciting!

And they're contemporaries given DA is just four months older. No generation gap!!


Could you imagine the sparks that would fly should Weeds and DA put their thoughts together. Hell, I thought a Shurmer/Marvin Lewis match-up had a chance to catch the Stadium of fire, but this would be a whole new level.

Look, I can't really bitch because I'm not even sure who the hell I wanted to coach, so long as it wasn't some 70 year old retread, but I gotta tell you, if I begin the fall of 2013 looking at a sideline which contains Weeds, DA, and Norv Turner - consider my confidence shaken.
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