10 Years Ago Tonight...

[peeker643]

The Buckeyes beat TheU in 2bl OT in Tempe, AZ in what may have been as nerve-wracking and emotional a sporting event as I ever watched.

Great column by Dan that we're running on the front page.

I remember Lisa was out with friends, kids were in bed and for hours afterward all I could do was pace and watch highlights. Up til about 4am just watching ONN (at the time) and Sportscenter.

More emotional and gut wrenching than Browns 2bl OT win over Jets (because that was ridiculous and come from behind and even a bit anti-climactic for me because Mosely missed a gimme that would have won it earlier).

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/ohio-sta ... n-years-on

[Govbarney]

I have yet to get married or have children, so I can still say that it was the happiest day of my life without my chick getting mad at me.

I was a sophomore at tOSU that year and went to every home game, still got that ticket (it was a single punch tab ticket ) proudly displayed on my mantel, right next to a bag with a small batch of grass I pulled up from the field after me and 100000 other people charged it when we beat sCUM. I may have both objects buried with me.

[swerb]

Was at a bash at Lost Nation Sports Park Bar & Grille with about 500 people there. Many, many man hugs doled out that night. The Clarett strip, the late interference flag ... Cie Grant blowing up Dorsey ... what great memories. Bucks winning outright as 14 point dogs, drunk quadrupled my bet just before kick off and also played the Bucks + some insane # on the money line.

10 years. Damn time flies.

[Kingpin74]

As a Michigan freshman at the time, maybe my least favorite sporting event ever but still a great game and will always remember watching it with my dad (former Mich player) and his 20 OSU crazed friends at John Q's Downtown. We were a little outnumbered. One of them was ready to pound Dan Fouts because he was so biased for Miami.

That OSU team has some very close similarities to this year's Notre Dame squad too.

[gotribe31]

Was my junior year in college. Started out watching the game with a few friends, PA guys who were Steelers fans. They were cheering for OSU simply because (as they put it), "if there's a God, there's no way he'll let OSU and Cleveland lose in the same weekend because Al would kill himself." One of them laughed after the failed fake FG, and I snapped. Yelled at them, ran outside and drove the 2 blocks back to my place to watch it in solitude. I was not fit for society that night. Made it home in time to see the Doss pick. Ran around outside with no shoes on after the game (in Erie, PA) and wasn't even cold. Went back to hang out with my PA friends and drank my face off. What a night.

Fucking Northcutt.

[furls]

That game is the one time I have ever known what it felt like to have MY team win it all. The upset aspect was great, but for me, well, my team had NEVER won it all.... until that night.

I will never forget what that felt like. Like Peek I stayed up all night watching highlights and trying to grasp that MY team won it all.

It was interesting too, because I was considering colleges for my commissioning program. I had already been accepted at a wide array of colleges across the country. I was legitimately torn between Georgia Tech, Cal Berkeley, UofTexas, Northwestern and Ohio State. That championship led me to pick tOSU, no shit. That game just made me remember (not that I needed much reminding) how much I loved tOSU. My thoughts were that I was going to get a great education at all of those schools, they were all similarly priced and I really just wanted to go to the 'Shoe.

[pod2dawg]

I remember all those f%$^^cking Larry Coker cardboard face cut outs on a stick the Miami fans were sporting around before/ during the game........afterwards they were using them to light their blunts with.

My face still hurts from smiling so much that night.

[Govbarney]

That game is the one time I have ever known what it felt like to have MY team win it all. The upset aspect was great, but for me, well, my team had NEVER won it all.... until that night.

I will never forget what that felt like. Like Peek I stayed up all night watching highlights and trying to grasp that MY team won it all.

It was interesting too, because I was considering colleges for my commissioning program. I had already been accepted at a wide array of colleges across the country. I was legitimately torn between Georgia Tech, Cal Berkeley, UofTexas, Northwestern and Ohio State. That championship led me to pick tOSU, no shit. That game just made me remember (not that I needed much reminding) how much I loved tOSU. My thoughts were that I was going to get a great education at all of those schools, they were all similarly priced and I really just wanted to go to the 'Shoe.

Furls , you commissioned from tOSU, which program ? I commissioned from the Army ROTC in '05.

[furls]

NROTC '06. Spent alot of time in Converse Hall. I was the acting Assistant Marine Officer Instructor from 05-06 after the previous one was relieved of his duties.

[noles1]

13 rows up in the endzone where the Jenkins penalty and 4th and 13 was.

Took a 54-hr Greyhound bus ride to get out there. Stayed at a college roommates brother's floor with 4 other buddies from our apartment. Did the whole trip on Natty Lights, Imperial Vodka, Whataburgers & Jack-in-the-Box for 5 days...

Richard Lewis pacing the sidelines like a crack fiend.

Herbie, Doss & Eddie pumping the crowd up.

Easily one of the great moments I will always have in my memories. More stories than I can bother to explain in this post.

Turned 21 that trip and the only thing that soured it was Dennis Northcutt.

95% Buckeye fans in the stadium and the loudest single game I have ever attended. Just edged out the NC State 3OT game and the Michigan game from '02 season.

[fairvis]

I was a sophomore at tOSU that year as well. I had just missed making the band that year, which I'm still pissed about, so I didn't get to head out there for the bowl trip (visited the Fiesta Bowl after the '03 and '05 seasons, and Tempe's a pretty decent place to get drunk in, and the hotel the band stayed in had a pretty killer hot tub that we just stayed and drank in).

Watched the game with my father, who I was turning into a big OSU fan. He'd always been a bit of a Buckeye lean (he and my mom both went to CSU), and my attendance at OSU after a long consideration of what colleges to go to certainly helped that. I remember waking up my sisters when they ruled PI, and definitely was in awe at the end. Went back to OSU to start winter quarter the next day (I worked in the dorms and therefore would move back a few days early), and the buzz in Columbus was something else.

That game, for a Cleveland fan, was the single occurrence that turned Cleveland into an Ohio State town. I remember how split it was for college football fans at Iggy - you'd have a lot of ND and Michigan fans with perhaps a Buckeye plurality. Hell, it was the same in Cleveland Heights. After that game, though, the ND and Michigan fans slowly went away, until now where all you see is Buckeye gear, they play Hang On Sloopy at Tribe, Browns, and Cavs games (which I don't remember happening before), and Glenville started that pipeline down south.

Still pissed I didn't make the band in '02 to see it live. That, and I had graduated and moved to Alabama for my PhD by '06. But that may not have been the one to see as well.

[furls]

That game turned the state of Ohio into Buckeye fans. The state always sort of liked the Buckeyes, but that championship vaulted the Buckeyes into the most popular team in the state. Sure the Browns are more popular in Cleveland, but statewide it is the Bucks. For a championship starved city like Cleveland, that game made a lot of college football fans out of folks that used to only watch pro sports.

[googleeph2]

Great stories. This game was the first I remember watching after just having hooked up the surround sound I'd gotten us for Christmas. I too watched replays, postgame stuff into the night.

I live in Cincinnati. In the days following the game, I really enjoyed talking to the guys who’d used the ‘luckeye’ slur all year. Since people thought they were overrated, and since they were prohibitive dogs in the title game, they were actually severely underrated, no?

And yeah, most of Ohio locked in as Bucks fans that night. But make no mistake: while there are fans in Cincinnati, there are many vocal anti-Bucks fans too. Lots are ND fans, or the bandwagon Cinc fans that were nowhere to be found 15yrs ago. Nowhere.

When one spouts off, I ask what they would say to a Michigan fan who is slamming Ohio. Checkmate.

PS. God bless Jim Tressel.

[motherscratcher]

I had a student season ticket that year. I was graduated, done with a residency, and working. But my wife was in a 3 year prosthodontic program and was able to scrounge up a student ticket and face value for me. I think the name on the ticket was Sun-Wook Hwang, or something.

Sat in C deck (my favorite spot) and watch the students rush the field after the Michigan game. Sat there for a half an hour with tears in my eyes watching them try to bring down the goalpost in the south endzone. They never did. One thing I remember (I think) is the cops forming a kind triangle around the goalpost to try to keep the students off it. At one point there was a stream of what I assumed to be pepper spray shot into the air over the students (not at them). I remember people left in the stands going "OOoooohhhh" like it was a fireworks show. The cops gave up shortly after that. Eventually it became clear the goalpost wasnt going anywhere so we headed toward Lane where it was more crowded than I can ever remember.

I watched the NCG at a friend's house in Reynoldsberg, plastered out of my mind by the overtime. I remember thinking multiple times that "I can't take it. I Just can't take this any more." But of course, there's nothing you can do to get rid of the "I'm about to puke" feeling. After Cie Grant's tackle ended the game I rememeber some of us pouring out the back door into his yard and just yelling. We could hear shouts from all around the neighborhood.

A month or so later I was at the Shoe for whatever that little ceremony was to congratulate the team. I remember 2 things. The Eminem song with season highlights they put together on the scoreboard. And Cie Grant absolutely bringing down the house with his solo rendition of the Alma Mater.

[furls]

I still remember waiting for the groin shot reversal or flag after the final Miami incompletion. I had been so conditioned as a Cleveland sports fan to expect the bad thing to happen that I just sat there in disbelief for hours and took in the highlights. I couldn't believe they had actually won.

That is the only time in my lifetime that my team (in any sport) has won it all. I have a feeling we will be reacquainted with that feeling in the very near future.

MEYER IS BUILDING A MACHINE. He is recruiting at a level that we really haven't seen at tOSU, and he has an amazing staff. If any weak links do emerge in his staff he will let them go. Tressel had some great recruiting classes, but his position coaches, particularly on offense were suspect (to say the least).

[googleeph2]

So the concern that Vrabel is a weak link as a coach is unfounded? My understanding was that he could recruit, but that was about it.

Is Luke Fickell a good D coord?

[furls]

Great question. I am not certain that we can say that yet, but based on the leaked heated conversations from the D's rough period, it is safe to say that if they are ineffective they will not be retained. Man we could start a whole thread about last year's defense, but here are the key points:

1. Fickell is very comfortable playing 4 man fronts and limiting his rush to 4. Meyer is not cool with that. He wants a gambling aggressive D. He will get that D, or Fickell will move on. I think Fickell was entirely too comfortable under Tressel with Heacock propping him up. Next year will be critical for Fick, and it would not surprise me if we see him move on, not fired... just interested in other opportunities.

2. Vrabel is a great recruiter, and at this point is supposed to be a pretty damn decent coach. Still tough to say because the "stars" on the DLine were already "developed" before he got there (Simon, Hankins for the most part, Williams). Vrabel will continue at tOSU regardless of what happens to Fickell.

3. Withers: Withers tried very hard to implement Saban's pattern matching Cover 4 at the beginning of the season and it was a trainwreck. The personnel were not right (as you need safety's that can play man and we don't have those). So the Buckeyes went back to their normal Cover 3 and played a bit more man on the outside after the Indiana game. I like where Withers is trying to take the back half of the defense and once he gets his personnel, the secondary is going to be playing an elite scheme. Moving Boren to MLB was a huge part of the improvement of the D (as the MLB was now a contributing part of the D), but switching back to Cover 3 was an even more important change.

[furls]

FWIW, if this team does not go over 50 more than it stays under 50 next year I will very surprised.

[googleeph2]

FWIW, if this team does not go over 50 more than it stays under 50 next year I will very surprised.

Would be great to hear what went down with the 2012 defense, here or in an article...

When Meyer gets the attacking D he wants, I suppose that will support the 50/game...

I still get the visuals of FL (and LSU) dominating tOSU with their D in the NCGs.

[kman_holla8]

Everybody has some great stories on here, mine is not so much.

It involved leftover keg heineken that I could not stop drinking (which isn't so bad), and some delicious bbq lit'l smokies that I could not and would not stop eating... Just like most of the 20-somethings in Akron who were gathering with a few buddy while it lightly snowed outside, we were drinking and while I was 3 sheets to the wind by halftime, the adrenaline was going to keep me drinking until the final whistle and then for the next few hours afterwards. The last thing I remember was the MC Strip on the interception return. I think I threw up shortly afterwards and passed the fuck out. All my buddy were continuing to be loud and shaking me to wake up...I awoke to a wreck of a house at 6am and flipped on sportcenter to get the full highlights, I watched the loop of sportcenter for a couple of hours until everyone else in the house started to wake-up.
Part of me feels cheated that after 23 years my team practically in my city, MY fucking TEAM finally won and I missed it. I hope I don't have to wait much longer.

(I sort of don't count the PENS winning in '09, despite going to college and earning a degree and being a season ticket holder for '99-'00 season. I don't count it because I didn't grow up in PGH and the PENS are the only good thing that city has to offer in the way of sports)

[furls]

That's a great story Kman. It is the quintessential Cleveland Fan story, even when your team wins it all you fucking miss it! It is actually the most appropriate Cleveland Fan experience on here.

That is the one time ever, when the calls went my team's way, the coaching was there and the players executed. Man was it awesome. It is the only time my team has made the playoffs and won its last game.

[furls]

FWIW, if this team does not go over 50 more than it stays under 50 next year I will very surprised.

Would be great to hear what went down with the 2012 defense, here or in an article...

When Meyer gets the attacking D he wants, I suppose that will support the 50/game...

I still get the visuals of FL (and LSU) dominating tOSU with their D in the NCGs.

The Fickell defense story as I have seen it written, is basically that Meyer is every bit (if not more) as candid with his staff as he is with the media. He says what is on his mind. What I read was that he basically told Fickell that that type of defense may have cut it under the old regime, but that was not what he was expecting to see. From what I understand it was pretty heated.

This is supported by a quote from Fickell when asked about his relationship with Meyer when his defense was struggling to which Fickell curtly replied, "you learn alot about people when dealing with adversity." I honestly think there is some animosity there, but I don't image we will hear anything offical about it. I think we will see Fickell move on as soon as he can find a promotion.

He did not show well as a HC and was not even considered for the position at Kent, and I don't think you can make the case that there are many DC jobs better than OSU, so getting promoted will be an uphill battle for Fick and he will be forced to play ball with Meyer.

[e0y2e3]

For one thing, I think the talent has as much to do with the need to blitz this year as anything. Shazier was a train-wreck early in the year, there was no MLB, the safeties were overly agressive, etc. You can't not blitz when no one can cover. I think Fickel wanted to wait and see the talent develop whereas Meyer is less patient. Again, Heacock sucked just as bad two years ago with this core group.

That said I have read nothing but great things about Meyer and Fickel's relationship and if nothing else, we want Fickel here as long as possible for recruiting.

Withers pattern matching was as big a failure as anything Fickel did and for the same reasons Fickel struggled (personel).

BTW: Fickel didn't get interest in the Kent job because he makes $300K more than their HC does. That is going to happen with a lot of shitty jobs.

[e0y2e3]

IOW: I don't think we know a damn thing about any of the defensive staff because the shit-pile this team had at LB (especially after Sabino went down, which is hard to imagine since this is Sabino we are talking about) made any kind of real coaching impossible.

That said, I expect Fickel to be around for a very long time barring a complete melt-down next year.

[furls]

I agree with above, but I have read multiple quotes that taken by themselves don't say much about the Fickel Meyer Relationship, but taken in the aggregate could say something. Then again, I could be trying to connect dots that shouldn't be connected because they are unrelated. Fickell's salary is certainly part of the issue for him to get an HC job, but he will have to take a pay cut to move up. He is not going to get a BCS offer until he moves down and shows he can run the show. It is possible he could get offered by a career killer (Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, Kentucky, etc.) solely based on his ability to bring OH talent to those programs if his D's are able to put up some crushing numbers in the next couple of years, but in order to move to bigger and better things, he needs a MAC job.

The defense was a HOT mess last year at the beginning of the season. And Lee is 100% correct about the LBs making it impossible to tell what the hell was going on. They were pretty much always out of position or in Storm's case, completely did not react to plays in their position. The safeties are not good either. CJ Barnett showed a lot of promise as Fr, but really has not improved. Bryant needs to stop trying to make Jack Tatum Highlight reel on every play and actually wrap the fuck up. Neither of them can do a fucking thing in coverage.

That is why the pattern matching ultimately failed, the safeties HAVE to be able to play man and ours could not and they generally read the wrong routes letting players go completely uncovered. It was a complete disaster. You have to have safeties like Vonn Bell to run that Cover 4.

[e0y2e3]

There is a reason Meyer and Saban have been on Vonn Bell for over a year...

And Barnett was incredibly meh, but that was nowhere near as infuriating as Bryant and his four great plays followed by one play so terrible it completely negated all of the good.... If you want to give yourself nightmares imagine last years defense without Roby and a much improved Howard.

[FUDU]

If mo said he was at that NCG I'd have to kill myself.

[FUDU]

The Buckeyes beat TheU in 2bl OT in Tempe, AZ in what may have been as nerve-wracking and emotional a sporting event as I ever watched.

Great column by Dan that we're running on the front page.

I remember Lisa was out with friends, kids were in bed and for hours afterward all I could do was pace and watch highlights. Up til about 4am just watching ONN (at the time) and Sportscenter.

More emotional and gut wrenching than Browns 2bl OT win over Jets (because that was ridiculous and come from behind and even a bit anti-climactic for me because Mosely missed a gimme that would have won it earlier).

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/ohio-sta ... n-years-on

You could also say Nugent missed a gimme (for him, 42yd) in last half of the 4Q. That miss and the 50+ yd PR by Parrish soon after were huge (often forgotten) plays in that game.

It's all hindsight, and it worked out, but a lot of people always said that game ended wrong (to which they were wrong) but it very well should have ended with a Buckeye win in regulation.

Still one of the top 3 football games ever IMO.

[motherscratcher]

The Buckeyes beat TheU in 2bl OT in Tempe, AZ in what may have been as nerve-wracking and emotional a sporting event as I ever watched.

Great column by Dan that we're running on the front page.

I remember Lisa was out with friends, kids were in bed and for hours afterward all I could do was pace and watch highlights. Up til about 4am just watching ONN (at the time) and Sportscenter.

More emotional and gut wrenching than Browns 2bl OT win over Jets (because that was ridiculous and come from behind and even a bit anti-climactic for me because Mosely missed a gimme that would have won it earlier).

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/ohio-sta ... n-years-on

You could also say Nugent missed a gimme (for him, 42yd) in last half of the 4Q. That miss and the 50+ yd PR by Parrish soon after were huge (often forgotten) plays in that game.

It's all hindsight, and it worked out, but a lot of people always said that game ended wrong (to which they were wrong) but it very well should have ended with a Buckeye win in regulation.

Still one of the top 3 football games ever IMO.

I've always thought (knew, actually) that if I was at that NCG the Buckeyes would have lost. I believe that and there is no doubt in my mind.

It's funny about that Nugent miss. I always kind of felt that was a blessing in the skies. Nugent misses and the lead is 3 so Miami knows it can tie with a FG, which is obviously what happened. IMF Nugent makes it the lead is 6 so Miami needs a TD. I always felt that if Miami HAD to get a TD, they would have. And we would have lost by 1. Because Cleveland.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I was there. Miami fans asking why we even bothered to show up. After Cie Grant ran down Dorsey like a frightened rabbit, I couldn't stop laughing at all the Miami fans.

Best sports game experience of my life.

[furls]

I was there. Miami fans asking why we even bothered to show up. After Cie Grant ran down Dorsey like a frightened rabbit, I couldn't stop laughing at both of the Miami fans in the whole universe.

Best sports game experience of my life.

Fixed it for you.

[peeker643]

The Buckeyes beat TheU in 2bl OT in Tempe, AZ in what may have been as nerve-wracking and emotional a sporting event as I ever watched.

Great column by Dan that we're running on the front page.

I remember Lisa was out with friends, kids were in bed and for hours afterward all I could do was pace and watch highlights. Up til about 4am just watching ONN (at the time) and Sportscenter.

More emotional and gut wrenching than Browns 2bl OT win over Jets (because that was ridiculous and come from behind and even a bit anti-climactic for me because Mosely missed a gimme that would have won it earlier).

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/ohio-sta ... n-years-on

You could also say Nugent missed a gimme (for him, 42yd) in last half of the 4Q. That miss and the 50+ yd PR by Parrish soon after were huge (often forgotten) plays in that game.

It's all hindsight, and it worked out, but a lot of people always said that game ended wrong (to which they were wrong) but it very well should have ended with a Buckeye win in regulation.

Still one of the top 3 football games ever IMO.

42 yards is outside of any kickers 'gimme' range. I don't care if we're talking Dawson, Nugent, Janikowski, etc.

Mosely missed a 23 yarder in OT. Extra point. I could have literally killed him.

[Squints]

[/quote]

42 yards is outside of any kickers 'gimme' range. I don't care if we're talking Dawson, Nugent, Janikowski, etc.

Mosely missed a 23 yarder in OT. Extra point. I could have literally killed him.[/quote]


GD straight-ahead kickers.

[pod2dawg]

I was there. Miami fans asking why we even bothered to show up. After Cie Grant ran down Dorsey like a frightened rabbit, I couldn't stop laughing at all the Miami fans.

Best sports game experience of my life.

CDT did you pick up one of those Larry Coker cardboard head cut-outs on a stick that were all over the ground after the game ?

[pod2dawg]

For one thing, I think the talent has as much to do with the need to blitz this year as anything. Shazier was a train-wreck early in the year, there was no MLB, the safeties were overly agressive, etc. You can't not blitz when no one can cover. I think Fickel wanted to wait and see the talent develop whereas Meyer is less patient. Again, Heacock sucked just as bad two years ago with this core group.

That said I have read nothing but great things about Meyer and Fickel's relationship and if nothing else, we want Fickel here as long as possible for recruiting.

Withers pattern matching was as big a failure as anything Fickel did and for the same reasons Fickel struggled (personel).

BTW: Fickel didn't get interest in the Kent job because he makes $300K more than their HC does. That is going to happen with a lot of shitty jobs.

And F%$%%ck you e0y, Canfield snob, and your cogent informed " takes" I agree with way too often..get back to your caustic antagonism..or consider posting under two stage names. I am sick of learning things here dammit. I want to learn AND be entertained.

[googleeph2]

Mosely

Agree. Marty's crappy special teams covg got Bahr hurt (was that Cowher? too lazy to look up), requiring drastic measures in the first place. And the warning signs were there with Mosely. He'd been released by the Redskins that year for just such suckitudery, IIRC.

[furls]

For one thing, I think the talent has as much to do with the need to blitz this year as anything. Shazier was a train-wreck early in the year, there was no MLB, the safeties were overly agressive, etc. You can't not blitz when no one can cover. I think Fickel wanted to wait and see the talent develop whereas Meyer is less patient. Again, Heacock sucked just as bad two years ago with this core group.

That said I have read nothing but great things about Meyer and Fickel's relationship and if nothing else, we want Fickel here as long as possible for recruiting.

Withers pattern matching was as big a failure as anything Fickel did and for the same reasons Fickel struggled (personel).

BTW: Fickel didn't get interest in the Kent job because he makes $300K more than their HC does. That is going to happen with a lot of shitty jobs.

And F%$%%ck you e0y, Canfield snob, and your cogent informed " takes" I agree with way too often..get back to your caustic antagonism..or consider posting under two stage names. I am sick of learning things here dammit. I want to learn AND be entertained.

Lee's been bringing the real strong stuff around here. Thanks for all the great dialogues.

[e0y2e3]

This is one of the last few sanctuaries on the internet. It's like the opposite of the LeBron era Cavs forum here.

[pod2dawg]

I was a sophomore at tOSU that year as well. I had just missed making the band that year, which I'm still pissed about, so I didn't get to head out there for the bowl trip (visited the Fiesta Bowl after the '03 and '05 seasons, and Tempe's a pretty decent place to get drunk in, and the hotel the band stayed in had a pretty killer hot tub that we just stayed and drank in).

Watched the game with my father, who I was turning into a big OSU fan. He'd always been a bit of a Buckeye lean (he and my mom both went to CSU), and my attendance at OSU after a long consideration of what colleges to go to certainly helped that. I remember waking up my sisters when they ruled PI, and definitely was in awe at the end. Went back to OSU to start winter quarter the next day (I worked in the dorms and therefore would move back a few days early), and the buzz in Columbus was something else.

That game, for a Cleveland fan, was the single occurrence that turned Cleveland into an Ohio State town. I remember how split it was for college football fans at Iggy - you'd have a lot of ND and Michigan fans with perhaps a Buckeye plurality. Hell, it was the same in Cleveland Heights. After that game, though, the ND and Michigan fans slowly went away, until now where all you see is Buckeye gear, they play Hang On Sloopy at Tribe, Browns, and Cavs games (which I don't remember happening before), and Glenville started that pipeline down south.

Still pissed I didn't make the band in '02 to see it live. That, and I had graduated and moved to Alabama for my PhD by '06. But that may not have been the one to see as well.

Fairv, I liken back to an "extra sauce" Tommy's sub conversation with my young impressionable son when I decreed it was harder to make the OSU band than the football team. He just shook his head in reverence .