The Search

[Hikohadon]

Browns interviewed Ken Whisenhunt yesterday in Arizona.

They also interviewed Ray Horton while there.

Chip Kelly will be their third interview.

Reports that they'll interview Doug Marrone (Syracuse HC) and Bill O'Brien next, unless of course they hire Kelly.

If they do hire Kelly, can someone tell me how this "search" was different than the Shurmur "search"? They went straight after the guy they wanted, interviewed one guy to get that pesky Rooney Rule out of the way, interviewed another guy cuz he was in town, and then hired the guy they had circled in red since probably midseason.

Hardly a "search".

Personally, I don't mind abandoning the pretense of a search if you know who it is you want right off the bat. Wasn't overly perturbed by the Shurmur hiring process, just that you better be right because you look incompetent if you don't do your due diligence and end up with a Shurmur.

But so many have trumpeted that Haslam will "do things right" despite the fact that we have no evidence backing that claim up, and what evidence we will have from a quick Chipper hiring is that he's "doing things just like Holmgren did".

Maybe it works this time, who knows? Kelly has to be better than Shurmur, right? Or at least more interesting. Besides, Haslam and Banner are so "dedicated" and "engaged" and "professional". So that makes this situation oh so different.

[mattvan1]

Browns interviewed Ken Whisenhunt yesterday in Arizona.

They also interviewed Ray Horton while there.

Chip Kelly will be their third interview.

Reports that they'll interview Doug Marrone (Syracuse HC) and Bill O'Brien next, unless of course they hire Kelly.

If they do hire Kelly, can someone tell me how this "search" was different than the Shurmur "search"? They went straight after the guy they wanted, interviewed one guy to get that pesky Rooney Rule out of the way, interviewed another guy cuz he was in town, and then hired the guy they had circled in red since probably midseason.

Hardly a "search".

Personally, I don't mind abandoning the pretense of a search if you know who it is you want right off the bat. Wasn't overly perturbed by the Shurmur hiring process, just that you better be right because you look incompetent if you don't do your due diligence and end up with a Shurmur.

But so many have trumpeted that Haslam will "do things right" despite the fact that we have no evidence backing that claim up, and what evidence we will have from a quick Chipper hiring is that he's "doing things just like Holmgren did".

Maybe it works this time, who knows? Kelly has to be better than Shurmur, right? Or at least more interesting. Besides, Haslam and Banner are so "dedicated" and "engaged" and "professional". So that makes this situation oh so different.

Let's see what happens, but I would tend to agree that IF Kelly gets hired the whole "search" was a bit of a sham.

As an aside, are you feeling a lot of "Haslam and Banner doing things the right way?" 'Cause personally I already don't like Banner and just because you ran a bunch of truck stops with fast food courts I can't see how that makes you any more qualified to own an NFL team than you or me.

[Hikohadon]

As an aside, are you feeling a lot of "Haslam and Banner doing things the right way?" 'Cause personally I already don't like Banner and just because to ran a bunch of truck stops with fast food courts I can't see how that makes you any more qualified to own an NFL team than you or me.

I'm not feeling that myself, but that seems to be the consensus opinion. Probably because the alternative is more of the same.

There's also a lot of "can't be worse than Randy", which is probably true. However, "incrementally better than Randy" doesn't really get us anywhere either.

I will try to remain objective no matter what, but I feel like I'm stuck in Groundhog's Day of a day where I get a colonoscopy and a root canal at the same time.

[peeker643]

Couple things:

Not sure the timeline of how things went down with Shurmur in terms of how soon they interviewed and how many before they chose the guy they had targeted anyway. I just don't remember.

Had no problem at the time w/Shurmur process either because I had a misguided trust in Holmgren when he was clearly and always just going through the motions and looking for a puppet. Which he got. I don't see this search as a search for a system oriented puppet which makes it different feeling for me already. Don't believe (though I could well be wrong) that this is a sham.

An owner engaged in the "process" is a departure from last search immediately.

That said, they could butcher the process and end up with a great coach or do it perfectly and get a guy who falls on his face. Too many unknowns to tell until down the road.

I'm not confident they'll get the right guy. I am confident they give a shit if they do, unlike Randy was.

[Hikohadon]

I'm not confident they'll get the right guy. I am confident they give a shit if they do, unlike Randy was.

Can't argue with that.

So they'll get to "enjoy" the colonoscopy root canal with us.

[motherscratcher]

I get the whole "this search is a sham" thing, but hiring an NFL head coach seems like a whole different animal than any other employment search.

First of all is the time frame. All of these job openings happen at the exact same time for everyone, and there is a short list of potential candidates, each with their own strangths and weaknesses. And that list is pretty close to the same for everyone looking. It's not like every Jan 1st 7 CEO positions open up for fortune 500 companies and there is a mad scramble to fill the position before Pepsi hires the guy you like while you were interviewing Joe Schmoe.

Second, it's not like they don't already have a ton of info on these guys before any interview. It's not like Banner called up Chip Kelly and told him he'd heard good thing and would like to look at a resume.

Sure, it'd be nice for the Browns to sit back, interview 12 of the best candidates 2 times and watch them all run 3 practices to see who is the best fit, but that's not reasonable. It's also not necessary.

If Banner doesn't have a list of 3 guys he likes, with a top candidate before any interviews, then he's not doing his job.

These aren't interviews. These are sales pitches.

If the Browns walk out of their meeting tomorrow with a new Head Coach, do you think that their "search" is really any different than teh "search" of other NFL teams looking for coaches?

The only difference is this time we'd be hiring the guy that other teams actually want.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

If they do hire Kelly, can someone tell me how this "search" was different than the Shurmur "search"? They went straight after the guy they wanted, interviewed one guy to get that pesky Rooney Rule out of the way, interviewed another guy cuz he was in town, and then hired the guy they had circled in red since probably midseason.

Hardly a "search".

The difference: Shurmur wasn't even on anyone else's radar, heck if he wasn't on anyone else's Hubble telescope. Holmgren went through the Rooney Rule kabuki then went straight to handing the contract to Pat.

Kelly's the hottest ticket and is at least in the Eagles' sights as well. Horton is actually a hot item as well and not just another Perry Fewell token. And they went through the trouble of talking to the Whiz while they were there, so its not like they're keeping other options open.

If they go right for Kelly, yes the search isn't exhaustive but its not like they're operating in a vacuum either. If they have Kelly as #1 on their list, then they're gonna have to move fast if they want to beat out everyone else. Remember: This is still Cleveland, they're still the Browns.

[mattvan1]

I get the whole "this search is a sham" thing, but hiring an NFL head coach seems like a whole different animal than any other employment search.

First of all is the time frame. All of these job openings happen at the exact same time for everyone, and there is a short list of potential candidates, each with their own strangths and weaknesses. And that list is pretty close to the same for everyone looking. It's not like every Jan 1st 7 CEO positions open up for fortune 500 companies and there is a mad scramble to fill the position before Pepsi hires the guy you like while you were interviewing Joe Schmoe.

Second, it's not like they don't already have a ton of info on these guys before any interview. It's not like Banner called up Chip Kelly and told him he'd heard good thing and would like to look at a resume.

Sure, it'd be nice for the Browns to sit back, interview 12 of the best candidates 2 times and watch them all run 3 practices to see who is the best fit, but that's not reasonable. It's also not necessary.

If Banner doesn't have a list of 3 guys he likes, with a top candidate before any interviews, then he's not doing his job.

These aren't interviews. These are sales pitches.

If the Browns walk out of their meeting tomorrow with a new Head Coach, do you think that their "search" is really any different than teh "search" of other NFL teams looking for coaches?

The only difference is this time we'd be hiring the guy that other teams actually want.

You make really good points, but I keep going back to the Steelers hire of Tomlin. IIRC he was their Rooney rule interview (ironic, no?) and the guy just blew them away and possessed all the attributes they wanted. They had no intentions of offering him but he quickly became their top candidate.

Now, the pat response is "well, with their talent anyone could coach that team" but I don't believe that's true. I think the process matters, although in a much compressed time frame as you note.

[e0y2e3]

To be fair Jammies was going through the full interview process when ManGenious knocked his socks off! IIRC, didn't the NFL tell him to interview ManGENIOUS or something to that effect?

[Hikohadon]

Mo, as Matt said you make good points. And I never disagreed with any of that, really.

Just pointing out that so far the new and refreshing and dedicated management team is doing pretty much the same thing as their incompetent predecessors. That doesn't guarantee the same incompetent results, of course, but not does it warrant accolades.

[pup]

Mo, as Matt said you make good points. And I never disagreed with any of that, really.

Just pointing out that so far the new and refreshing and dedicated management team is doing pretty much the same thing as their incompetent predecessors. That doesn't guarantee the same incompetent results, of course, but not does it warrant accolades.

no they are not.

List of Kelly traits: desired by multiple searchers, innovative approach, leader, discipline driven....

List of Pat's traits: led shitty offense as coordinator, uncle coached with Mike, Lamonte.

[Hikohadon]

To be fair Jammies was going through the full interview process when ManGenious knocked his socks off! IIRC, didn't the NFL tell him to interview ManGENIOUS or something to that effect?

Did he go through a full interview process to get Romeo?

And, yes, someone from the NFL office recommended the move, and Jammies is fine making decisions suggested by someone else (or passing that responsibility off to someone else) just so he doesn't have to do it.

[Hikohadon]

Mo, as Matt said you make good points. And I never disagreed with any of that, really.

Just pointing out that so far the new and refreshing and dedicated management team is doing pretty much the same thing as their incompetent predecessors. That doesn't guarantee the same incompetent results, of course, but not does it warrant accolades.

no they are not.

List of Kelly traits: desired by multiple searchers, innovative approach, leader, discipline driven....

List of Pat's traits: led shitty offense as coordinator, uncle coached with Mike, Lamonte.

Gee, that wouldn't be a completely biased and subjective view, would it?

History will probably change that assessment of Kelly, but I'll just hope you're right.

[e0y2e3]

Regardless of how you feel about Kelly as a candidate, he is a guy that turned down an offer last year, turned down interviews before that and that is the biggest target out there this year.

No matter what that makes him a completely different animal than QB Coach w/ one year of coordinating experience who no one wanted Shur!!!

Identifying who you want and going to get them is a fine strategy, however, when that strategy brings you to a go NO ONE else wants (even a little) and that guy sucks/shares your agent, it's hard to see any process outside of hiring your "boys". Identifying a high quality candidate and going all in on them is slightly different than giving your boy toy a reach around/job.

[pup]

Mo, as Matt said you make good points. And I never disagreed with any of that, really.

Just pointing out that so far the new and refreshing and dedicated management team is doing pretty much the same thing as their incompetent predecessors. That doesn't guarantee the same incompetent results, of course, but not does it warrant accolades.

no they are not.

List of Kelly traits: desired by multiple searchers, innovative approach, leader, discipline driven....

List of Pat's traits: led shitty offense as coordinator, uncle coached with Mike, Lamonte.

Gee, that wouldn't be a completely biased and subjective view, would it?

History will probably change that assessment of Kelly, but I'll just hope you're right.

Which are untrue?

[Hikohadon]

Regardless of how you feel about Kelly as a candidate, he is a guy that turned down an offer last year, turned down interviews before that and that is the biggest target out there this year.

No matter what that makes him a completely different animal than QB Coach w/ one year of coordinating experience who no one wanted Shur!!!

Identifying who you want and going to get them is a fine strategy, however, when that strategy brings you to a go NO ONE else wants (even a little) and that guy sucks/shares your agent, it's hard to see any process outside of hiring your "boys". Identifying a high quality candidate and going all in on them is slightly different than giving your boy toy a reach around/job.

Again, not arguing that.

Just pointing out that there was a faction that stated that the previous coaching search was a "sham" (it was) and that the new regime would "do things right" and have a "proper search".

And now that they're not doing a "proper search", it's OK because the dude's "in demand".

It's not a big deal to me - if you know who you want, you know who you want. That goes for the Holmgren search too. It doesn't really matter if Shurmy was in demand or not, that was the guy they wanted (who the fuck knows why). To crucify one regime for the action then give the next a pass is, to me, disingenuous.

But that is the nature of the fan, and I guess I'm being a prick about it since Jimmy Dean and The Muppet have foregone a proper search in order to woo a flavor-of-the-week that I think will be an epic bust, which has me pissed because I'm worried we're stuck with "dedicated, engaged, professional" retards.

Or maybe I've reached your point where I've given up on the team and now find amusement in their failure. Which is why I'm slowly embracing the Chip Kelly Experiment - it could be the kind of train wreck you sit back and say "Whoa! We're gonna need some new FBI guys, I guess."

[Hikohadon]

Mo, as Matt said you make good points. And I never disagreed with any of that, really.

Just pointing out that so far the new and refreshing and dedicated management team is doing pretty much the same thing as their incompetent predecessors. That doesn't guarantee the same incompetent results, of course, but not does it warrant accolades.

no they are not.

List of Kelly traits: desired by multiple searchers, innovative approach, leader, discipline driven....

List of Pat's traits: led shitty offense as coordinator, uncle coached with Mike, Lamonte.

Gee, that wouldn't be a completely biased and subjective view, would it?

History will probably change that assessment of Kelly, but I'll just hope you're right.

Which are untrue?

Maybe it's not, I guess if you tried to pound a nail in with a fish, it would still be an "innovative approach".

[e0y2e3]

I just guess I see you looking at the lack of interviews as telling in terms of what the behind the scenes process is.

I tend to believe this regime at least talked about different guys and established a pecking order using some sort of methodical approach (I mean, they've been working on this for awhile now) whereas Holmes literally called Bob Lamont and hired his "boy toy".

IMO, if this team put some sort of due-diligence into coming up with Chip as their top target that alone is better than the entire incestuous agent fiasco before.

[peeker643]

I just guess I see you looking at the lack of interviews as telling in terms of what the behind the scenes process is.

I tend to believe this regime at least talked about different guys and established a pecking order using some sort of methodical approach (I mean, they've been working on this for awhile now) whereas Holmes literally called Bob Lamont and hired his "boy toy".

IMO, if this team put some sort of due-diligence into coming up with Chip as their top target that alone is better than the entire incestuous agent fiasco before.

Ditto. Not sure why this 'search' is somehow flawed as opposed to how business and these things are done in the NFL.

[pup]

I don't even think Chip was the top target 6 weeks ago.

I think he is currently the top target available.

The comparison of the two searches based only on the number and order of the interviews is ridiculous.

To compare the two candidates that get chosen is ridiculous.

To compare the owner's role in the process if ridiculous.

Basically, the entire premise of this thread is ridiculous.

[Hikohadon]

I just guess I see you looking at the lack of interviews as telling in terms of what the behind the scenes process is.

I tend to believe this regime at least talked about different guys and established a pecking order using some sort of methodical approach (I mean, they've been working on this for awhile now) whereas Holmes literally called Bob Lamont and hired his "boy toy".

IMO, if this team put some sort of due-diligence into coming up with Chip as their top target that alone is better than the entire incestuous agent fiasco before.

If we're going to go ahead and make the wild assumption that Jim Bob and Groucho did their due diligence while Holmgren just "called his agent", doing their due diligence and coming up with Chip Kelly doesn't make me feel any better about this regime.

But apparently I'm in the minority. The NFL circles have never missed on these "hot candidates".

[pup]

I just guess I see you looking at the lack of interviews as telling in terms of what the behind the scenes process is.

I tend to believe this regime at least talked about different guys and established a pecking order using some sort of methodical approach (I mean, they've been working on this for awhile now) whereas Holmes literally called Bob Lamont and hired his "boy toy".

IMO, if this team put some sort of due-diligence into coming up with Chip as their top target that alone is better than the entire incestuous agent fiasco before.

Doing their due diligence and coming up with Chip Kelly doesn't make me feel any better about this regime.

But apparently I'm in the minority. The NFL circles have never missed on these "hot candidates".

Should they post the job on Monster?

As soon as someone comes up with perfect way to pick a HC, they will no longer need a job because they can sell the formula to every CEO in the world.

[Hikohadon]

I just guess I see you looking at the lack of interviews as telling in terms of what the behind the scenes process is.

I tend to believe this regime at least talked about different guys and established a pecking order using some sort of methodical approach (I mean, they've been working on this for awhile now) whereas Holmes literally called Bob Lamont and hired his "boy toy".

IMO, if this team put some sort of due-diligence into coming up with Chip as their top target that alone is better than the entire incestuous agent fiasco before.

Doing their due diligence and coming up with Chip Kelly doesn't make me feel any better about this regime.

But apparently I'm in the minority. The NFL circles have never missed on these "hot candidates".

Should they post the job on Monster?

As soon as someone comes up with perfect way to pick a HC, they will no longer need a job because they can sell the formula to every CEO in the world.

What are you not getting here?

I'm fine with a "proper search". I'm fine with "going out and getting their guy".

I don't care HOW they select their coach. I only care WHO.

If you then counter why'd I bring it up, refer to a post I made about 5 or 6 up.

[peeker643]

I just guess I see you looking at the lack of interviews as telling in terms of what the behind the scenes process is.

I tend to believe this regime at least talked about different guys and established a pecking order using some sort of methodical approach (I mean, they've been working on this for awhile now) whereas Holmes literally called Bob Lamont and hired his "boy toy".

IMO, if this team put some sort of due-diligence into coming up with Chip as their top target that alone is better than the entire incestuous agent fiasco before.

If we're going to go ahead and make the wild assumption that Jim Bob and Groucho did their due diligence while Holmgren just "called his agent", doing their due diligence and coming up with Chip Kelly doesn't make me feel any better about this regime.

But apparently I'm in the minority. The NFL circles have never missed on these "hot candidates".

Would you care to lay out your process? Or how about laying out the Chiefs/Bills/Bears/Cardinals/Eagles/Etc processes. Would it be best if they hired the Rooney candidate like the Steelers did or mine their own staff for the hidden gem? Do we know they're not? How do the time constraints and competition for these candidates affect the process?

Perhaps they should wait til after the Super Bowl and give Jay Gruden, Mike Zimmer and Winston Moss interviews and hope they're better qualified than the guys who fill other teams' open HC jobs before that?

I'm just not quite sure what you'd have them do, honestly. To me it's a lot like finding a QB. You do this shit til you get the right one.

[pup]

I just guess I see you looking at the lack of interviews as telling in terms of what the behind the scenes process is.

I tend to believe this regime at least talked about different guys and established a pecking order using some sort of methodical approach (I mean, they've been working on this for awhile now) whereas Holmes literally called Bob Lamont and hired his "boy toy".

IMO, if this team put some sort of due-diligence into coming up with Chip as their top target that alone is better than the entire incestuous agent fiasco before.

Doing their due diligence and coming up with Chip Kelly doesn't make me feel any better about this regime.

But apparently I'm in the minority. The NFL circles have never missed on these "hot candidates".

Should they post the job on Monster?

As soon as someone comes up with perfect way to pick a HC, they will no longer need a job because they can sell the formula to every CEO in the world.

What are you not getting here?

I'm fine with a "proper search". I'm fine with "going out and getting their guy".

I don't care HOW they select their coach. I only care WHO.

If you then counter why'd I bring it up, refer to a post I made about 5 or 6 up.

I don't get how you see two professionals researching the type of organization and structure they want, identifying the coach is more important than the GM, identifying the traits they desire in that head coach, going out and finding head coaches that have those traits, coming to a conclusion on list of those candidates in their preferred order, scheduling the time to interview those candidates in the most time efficient manner they can, conducting an interview that Horton (who is actually my top choice) called fantastic and possibly deciding that the guy that was #1 on their last when it came time to put the plan into action

is the same as

Hey Bob, Call Fritz's kid and tell him to get to Cleveland.

[Hikohadon]

I just guess I see you looking at the lack of interviews as telling in terms of what the behind the scenes process is.

I tend to believe this regime at least talked about different guys and established a pecking order using some sort of methodical approach (I mean, they've been working on this for awhile now) whereas Holmes literally called Bob Lamont and hired his "boy toy".

IMO, if this team put some sort of due-diligence into coming up with Chip as their top target that alone is better than the entire incestuous agent fiasco before.

If we're going to go ahead and make the wild assumption that Jim Bob and Groucho did their due diligence while Holmgren just "called his agent", doing their due diligence and coming up with Chip Kelly doesn't make me feel any better about this regime.

But apparently I'm in the minority. The NFL circles have never missed on these "hot candidates".

Would you care to lay out your process? Or how about laying out the Chiefs/Bills/Bears/Cardinals/Eagles/Etc processes. Would it be best if they hired the Rooney candidate like the Steelers did or mine their own staff for the hidden gem? Do we know they're not? How do the time constraints and competition for these candidates affect the process?

Perhaps they should wait til after the Super Bowl and give Jay Gruden, Mike Zimmer and Winston Moss interviews and hope they're better qualified than the guys who fill other teams' open HC jobs before that?

I'm just not quite sure what you'd have them do, honestly.

Well, not hire Chip Kelly, first of all.

For the last time, I am not criticizing Jimbo & Old Man Banner for forgoing a search.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of crucifying one regime for forgoing a search in lieu of just "getting their guy" but somehow have no problem with it this time.

Translation - shaking my head at the unwarranted optimism, especially from some who would've cursed previous regimes from the get-go for getting them wet if they doused them while they were on fire.

What has this regime done that tells us they are going to be good, that they will be any different than the previous regimes?

The owner is engaged? An engaged owner that hires Joe Banner and offers the moon up to Chip Kelly. It is yet to be seen how these decisions pan out, but if they blow up the way I think they might, then we have an engaged owner that makes shitty decisions. Great.

And now I must stop as I know I'm wavering on the edge of whininess and you know how I feel about that.

[Hikohadon]

I don't get how you see two professionals researching the type of organization and structure they want, identifying the coach is more important than the GM, identifying the traits they desire in that head coach, going out and finding head coaches that have those traits, coming to a conclusion on list of those candidates in their preferred order, scheduling the time to interview those candidates in the most time efficient manner they can, conducting an interview that Horton (who is actually my top choice) called fantastic and possibly deciding that the guy that was #1 on their last when it came time to put the plan into action

is the same as

Hey Bob, Call Fritz's kid and tell him to get to Cleveland.

If you truly believe that's all exactly the way that it happened, that the process done behind closed doors was so completely different, then you go on with your bad self.

[koolaid][/koolaid]

I don't know how either process went, nor will I pretend. For all I know, our current search went:

"Hey Joe, that there Oregon offense sure do score a lot of dad-gum points! It sure is shiny! I want that guy. How much do you think he'll cost?"

"Well, he'd probably cost a lot, and we'd have to give him personnel control..."

"Done! How do we spin that?"

"Don't worry, I've got a section in my journal here for that situation. You just tell 'em what they want to hear, it isn't hard. We're new and engaged and professional. They'll believe anything we tell 'em for 2 or 3 years anyway."

"Hot dog! We're gonna score 70 points a game! Like to see Rooney's face after he eats THAT shit sandwich! Woooo doggie!"

[peeker643]

I just guess I see you looking at the lack of interviews as telling in terms of what the behind the scenes process is.

I tend to believe this regime at least talked about different guys and established a pecking order using some sort of methodical approach (I mean, they've been working on this for awhile now) whereas Holmes literally called Bob Lamont and hired his "boy toy".

IMO, if this team put some sort of due-diligence into coming up with Chip as their top target that alone is better than the entire incestuous agent fiasco before.

If we're going to go ahead and make the wild assumption that Jim Bob and Groucho did their due diligence while Holmgren just "called his agent", doing their due diligence and coming up with Chip Kelly doesn't make me feel any better about this regime.

But apparently I'm in the minority. The NFL circles have never missed on these "hot candidates".

Would you care to lay out your process? Or how about laying out the Chiefs/Bills/Bears/Cardinals/Eagles/Etc processes. Would it be best if they hired the Rooney candidate like the Steelers did or mine their own staff for the hidden gem? Do we know they're not? How do the time constraints and competition for these candidates affect the process?

Perhaps they should wait til after the Super Bowl and give Jay Gruden, Mike Zimmer and Winston Moss interviews and hope they're better qualified than the guys who fill other teams' open HC jobs before that?

I'm just not quite sure what you'd have them do, honestly.

Well, not hire Chip Kelly, first of all.

For the last time, I am not criticizing Jimbo & Old Man Banner for forgoing a search.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of crucifying one regime for forgoing a search in lieu of just "getting their guy" but somehow have no problem with it this time.

Translation - shaking my head at the unwarranted optimism, especially from some who would've cursed previous regimes from the get-go for getting them wet if they doused them while they were on fire.

What has this regime done that tells us they are going to be good, that they will be any different than the previous regimes?

The owner is engaged? An engaged owner that hires Joe Banner and offers the moon up to Chip Kelly. It is yet to be seen how these decisions pan out, but if they blow up the way I think they might, then we have an engaged owner that makes shitty decisions. Great.

And now I must stop as I know I'm wavering on the edge of whininess and you know how I feel about that.

I was fine with the last 'search' and argued with Matt over it endlessly. I was wrong. And I'm not running around with unbridled optimism about this regime. To answer your question(s) this regime has done nothing yet to provide us with optimism or faith.

What they have done is what everyone else looking for a coach has done. They've ID'd the same candidates (as opposed to creating one like last group did) and set about talking to those guys.

I don't know if they're right and I'm not a Kelly fan either, per se. I just don't know what you'd have them do differently. I offered a few suggestions above but you don't appear to want to wait til playoffs are done and then proceed after all potentially viable candidates have been vetted (and many potentially hired).

You want to tell me the NFL should freeze all hires until 3 days after the Super Bowl so everyone (candidates and teams) are on even footing, I'll go with that. But in this format and with this open season I'm not sure what else they can do.

I'm more than willing to listen though.

[Hikohadon]

I was fine with the last 'search' and argued with Matt over it endlessly. I was wrong. And I'm not running around with unbridled optimism about this regime. To answer your question(s) this regime has done nothing yet to provide us with optimism or faith.

What they have done is what everyone else looking for a coach has done. They've ID'd the same candidates (as opposed to creating one like last group did) and set about talking to those guys.

I don't know if they're right and I'm not a Kelly fan either, per se. I just don't know what you'd have them do differently. I offered a few suggestions above but you don't appear to want to wait til playoffs are done and then proceed after all potentially viable candidates have been vetted (and many potentially hired).

You want to tell me the NFL should freeze all hires until 3 days after the Super Bowl so everyone (candidates and teams) are on even footing, I'll go with that. But in this format and with this open season I'm not sure what else they can do.

I'm more than willing to listen though.

I'm fine with waiting. I'm not sure what I said that indicated I felt we should hire a coach now. If there was a candidate that you thought really had the potential to win the job, sure, you wait, especially if you aren't wowed by any open candidates right now.

And, if you are, you go ahead and nab them.

There is no "right" way to do this.

So I don't have a problem with them going after Chip Kelly if they think Chip Kelly is the right guy.

My problem is with them thinking Chip Kelly is the right guy.

Oh, and people representing these guys as doing something dramatically and impressively different than anyone else that's been here without having done anything at all.

[e0y2e3]

If the NFL froze all hiring until after the Super-Bowl you would unlock the biggest shit storm in the history of NCAA shit storms. I can't even imagine programs trying to save face with coaches leaving a week before NLOI day.

[peeker643]

I was fine with the last 'search' and argued with Matt over it endlessly. I was wrong. And I'm not running around with unbridled optimism about this regime. To answer your question(s) this regime has done nothing yet to provide us with optimism or faith.

What they have done is what everyone else looking for a coach has done. They've ID'd the same candidates (as opposed to creating one like last group did) and set about talking to those guys.

I don't know if they're right and I'm not a Kelly fan either, per se. I just don't know what you'd have them do differently. I offered a few suggestions above but you don't appear to want to wait til playoffs are done and then proceed after all potentially viable candidates have been vetted (and many potentially hired).

You want to tell me the NFL should freeze all hires until 3 days after the Super Bowl so everyone (candidates and teams) are on even footing, I'll go with that. But in this format and with this open season I'm not sure what else they can do.

I'm more than willing to listen though.

I'm fine with waiting. I'm not sure what I said that indicated I felt we should hire a coach now. If there was a candidate that you thought really had the potential to win the job, sure, you wait, especially if you aren't wowed by any open candidates right now.

And, if you are, you go ahead and nab them.

There is no "right" way to do this.

So I don't have a problem with them going after Chip Kelly if they think Chip Kelly is the right guy.

My problem is with them thinking Chip Kelly is the right guy.

Oh, and people representing these guys as doing something dramatically and impressively different than anyone else that's been here without having done anything at all.

Gotcha. I agree on Kelly and on the new guys having no credibility to base any optimism on thus far, other than they are not the old guys. Which, while I guess it counts only because of how bad the old guys were, shouldn't count for much.

My personal preference, after reading about the two of them, would be O'Brien. If for no other reason than he has NFL experience and that he seems to have been afforded a great deal of respect by the players he worked with.

NO NFL HC experience though. Which still bothers me. Although Shur and Romeo both have years of it...

[e0y2e3]

To be fair the only thing I think anyone did differently here was Holmes calling his agent to hire his boy. I just think that was a level of suck/bullshit unmatched by even this franchise.

Also, didn't they wait forever to hire Romeo after interviewing a bunch of people?

It's incredible how by spending five minutes thinking about all of these regimes previous hiring ordeals you can identify virtually every single flavor of failure available.

[Hikohadon]

To be fair the only thing I think anyone did differently here was Holmes calling his agent to hire his boy. I just think that was a level of suck/bullshit unmatched by even this franchise.

Also, didn't they wait forever to hire Romeo after interviewing a bunch of people?

It's incredible how by spending five minutes thinking about all of these regimes previous hiring ordeals you can identify virtually every single flavor of failure available.

Yeah, they had to wait until after the SB. Belichick, Weiss, and Romeo all hugged after beating the Eagles, then Weiss went on to Notre Dame and Romeo brought his combination of jolliness and inattentiveness to Cleveland.

[peeker643]

To be fair the only thing I think anyone did differently here was Holmes calling his agent to hire his boy. I just think that was a level of suck/bullshit unmatched by even this franchise.

Also, didn't they wait forever to hire Romeo after interviewing a bunch of people?

It's incredible how by spending five minutes thinking about all of these regimes previous hiring ordeals you can identify virtually every single flavor of failure available.

Yeah, they had to wait until after the SB. Belichick, Weiss, and Romeo all hugged after beating the Eagles, then Weiss went on to Notre Dame and Romeo brought his combination of jolliness and inattentiveness to Cleveland.

Hey!!! That man was a boon to local eateries, you insensitive prick. Economy still hasn't recovered in Berea.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

I don't even think Chip was the top target 6 weeks ago.

I think he is currently the top target available.

The comparison of the two searches based only on the number and order of the interviews is ridiculous.

To compare the two candidates that get chosen is ridiculous.

To compare the owner's role in the process if ridiculous.

Basically, the entire premise of this thread is ridiculous.

[justmebd]

I'm going to buck the trend on this thread and endorse Chip Kelly. I base this on nothing concrete, just a gut feeling. I could run down the usual list of stuff the Kelly defenders already are throwing out there.

I don't think he runs a spread offense in the NFL like a lot of the people who fear this hire claim he will do. As much as I hate Belichick, if he's picking Kelly's brain about offense, that is enough to get me to take notice. Hoodie usually doesn't take advice from ANYONE.

I think this regime has a better chance of making the "right" hire than anyone under Randy just because there's more method to their madness than just "Get this mess off my hands!"

If this doesn't work, what have we lost?

[e0y2e3]

The Redneck, in an effort to appease Hiko, interviewed coach BoB today.

[peeker643]

The Redneck, in an effort to appease Hiko, interviewed coach BoB today.

Yes.... and apparently Mary Kay Cabot believes she broke that story. She's the perfect beat reporter for the perfect paper covering the perfect team. Seriously, it's a match made in heaven between her, the PD, STO and the Browns.

[peeker643]

I see someone lurking. If he doesn't drop in on about 10 different threads and tell me what he thinks, I'm gonna be pissed.

[Hikohadon]

The Redneck, in an effort to appease Hiko, interviewed coach BoB today.

Don't mean a thang to me if they interview 2 or 20, but talking to O'Brien and Moron will help bolster the argument for the "this regime is different" crowd.

[peeker643]

The Redneck, in an effort to appease Hiko, interviewed coach BoB today.

Don't mean a thang to me if they interview 2 or 20, but talking to O'Brien and Moron will help bolster the argument for the "this regime is different" crowd.

Every time you post on this subject I'm more confused as to what you do want. Talk to people, not talk to people? More interviews? Fewer? I think you're getting squirrely which is impossible because you simply no longer care

[Hikohadon]

The Redneck, in an effort to appease Hiko, interviewed coach BoB today.

Don't mean a thang to me if they interview 2 or 20, but talking to O'Brien and Moron will help bolster the argument for the "this regime is different" crowd.

Every time you post on this subject I'm more confused as to what you do want. Talk to people, not talk to people? More interviews? Fewer? I think you're getting squirrely which is impossible because you simply no longer care

I don't know how to make this clearer.

What I want from HasBan: Don't hire Chip.

What I want from fans: Don't tell me this regime is better or different without them having done a damn thing to prove it.

I have obviously failed miserably in my attempt to state the search should not be used by them as evidence of "better" or "different" when it is neither (based on their concept of how a search should go, not mine).

Feel free to lock down this colossal waste of time.

[jerryroche]

Every time you post on this subject I'm more confused as to what you do want. Talk to people, not talk to people? More interviews? Fewer? I think you're getting squirrely which is impossible because you simply no longer care

As fans who've been through the last 13 years, it's difficult to separate the past from the present. We've seen both business guys (Randy Lerner, Carmen Policy) and football guys (Eric Mangini, Mike Holmgren) screw up the team. We want to believe Haslam and Banner know what they're doing, we really do. It's not that we no longer care; quite the opposite. Even though our hearts still bleed orange and brown, it's almost impossible to be optimistic.

[peeker643]

The Redneck, in an effort to appease Hiko, interviewed coach BoB today.

Don't mean a thang to me if they interview 2 or 20, but talking to O'Brien and Moron will help bolster the argument for the "this regime is different" crowd.

Every time you post on this subject I'm more confused as to what you do want. Talk to people, not talk to people? More interviews? Fewer? I think you're getting squirrely which is impossible because you simply no longer care

I don't know how to make this clearer.

What I want from HasBan: Don't hire Chip.

What I want from fans: Don't tell me this regime is better or different without them having done a damn thing to prove it.

I have obviously failed miserably in my attempt to state the search should not be used by them as evidence of "better" or "different" when it is neither (based on their concept of how a search should go, not mine).

Feel free to lock down this colossal waste of time.

Jesus- Chip is your white whale? You're going froggy over this as if it's some measuring stick of what the regime is or will be when you have zero idea what kind of coach the guy would be?

Okay. Just DO NOT lecture me on my Weeden rants.

Truth is, neither you nor I have any effing idea how they went about their search for a coach AND they haven't hired one yet.

At least I watched the QB suck.

If Haslam hres his best friend's nephew to coach the team then we can talk.

[e0y2e3]

As much as it pains me to say this.... Peeker's right. Hiko's gone straight Peeker over a theoretical situation.

[peeker643]

As much as it pains me to say this.... Peeker's right. Hiko's gone straight Peeker over a theoretical situation.

Finally you're making sense.

Wait..."straight Peeker"?

Bastard.

[Hikohadon]

As much as it pains me to say this.... Peeker's right. Hiko's gone straight Peeker over a theoretical situation.

You're right. I'm trying to stop. Peeks keeps baiting me and I keep biting.

I've said my piece on it, no way I'm gonna go Peeker on it any longer.

Bring on whatever disaster you want to HasBan.

[peeker643]

As much as it pains me to say this.... Peeker's right. Hiko's gone straight Peeker over a theoretical situation.

You're right. I'm trying to stop. Peeks keeps baiting me and I keep biting.

I've said my piece on it, no way I'm gonna go Peeker on it any longer.

Bring on whatever disaster you want to HasBan.

Awesome.

Gonna be a disaster because you don't know what's going on in the search. You're like Mary Kay Cabot complaining the Browns didn't announce they interviewed ( I'm sure it was a sham) Bill O'Brien.

Tough crowd for Browns with you guaranteeing a disaster regardless of who they hire. Very open minded

They could end up with second coming of Vince Landry Belichick for all you know. They could be conducting the most extensive search since the Lindbergh baby for all you know.

You should post that screaming baby pic you have on file.

[peeker643]

BTW, I hear anyone else talk about how commited to the PSU kids Bill O'Brien is and I'm hitting them in the fucking face.

So commited he interviewed with a couple NFL teams.

He found his "commitment" when PSU found another $1.3million for him.

Fuck his phony commitment. He used the system for $$ and he ain't lasting the length of that 4-year contract. I'll bet a case of Mad Elf on it. Which by that time may cost about $100.

[e0y2e3]

Not true Peeker. I'll PM you the details of why BoB was looking later, got a meeting. There were legit things pushing him to consider the NFL.

And apparently he knocked his interviews out of the park.