Lombardi / McDaniels

[motherscratcher]

I'm not surprised by anything the Browns do/will do anymore.

In fact, the only thing that surprises me is Mattvan actually liking a coach.

[e0y2e3]

Nothing you say or do surprises anyone either. At least you realize how truly hard it is to deal with a person or entity that functions at such a low level of intellect it becomes impossible to comprehend their actions.

[motherscratcher]

Nothing you say or do surprises anyone either. At least you realize how truly hard it is to deal with a person or entity that functions at such a low level of intellect it becomes impossible to comprehend their actions.

If that's a veiled criticism about me, I won't hear it and I won't respond to it.

[mattvan1]

I'm not surprised by anything the Browns do/will do anysn't a media more.

In fact, the only thing that surprises me is Mattvan actually liking a coach.

I only like the coaches I haven't met. Seriously - I guess you weren't paying attention 2 years ago?

The best coach for the Browns is probably someone no one has heard of yet. Some switched on guy that isn't a media darling, that none of the talking head idiots who work for the WWL know, just some guy with a vision who works his ass off and relates well to players. Someone who demonstrates great organizational skills, is a capable leader, and can innovate.

Know how you find that guy? You interview. You keep an open mind and bring in a slew of candidates, some big names to keep the 80% (read you) happy, but also some unknowns that fit your profile. You don't talk to Bob Kraft a few times and then hand the keys to kingdom to the guy that went all in on Matt Cassell and then Tim Tebow.

Remember the ledging when these guys were hired?
Sean Payton
Mike McCarthey
John Harbaugh
Mike Tomlin

2 of the 3 HCs in the AFCN were hated by their fan bases when they were hired. Because they were unknown. Because they weren't big names or the popular choice. But FOs of the Steelers and the Ravens picked the guy that impressed them in interviews, not because they ran a certain scheme or were recommended by an agent, but because those guys were organized, knowledgeable, passionate, and good communicators who could lead.

And very few knew who the hell they were before they were hired.

[motherscratcher]

Mattvan is pissed.

Never mind that that whole post is the antithesis of your 21 emoticon salute to Saban earlier.

[mattvan1]

Mattvan is pissed.

Never mind that that whole post is the antithesis of your 21 emoticon salute to Saban earlier.

Dude, you need to be able to discern frivolous bullshit posts (the Saban one - only because he is not Josh McDaniels) from the ones that actually try to add to the dialogue - like explaining why I don't have a "favorite candidate" because I have no idea who the right guy will be - and neither do Haslam and Banner until they actually bring some guys in and talk to them.

As opposed to simply repeating "I like Josh McDaniels" for 2 weeks.

BTW - do you mean "pissed" as in angry or as in drunk?

[motherscratcher]

Mattvan is pissed.

Never mind that that whole post is the antithesis of your 21 emoticon salute to Saban earlier.

Dude, you need to be able to discern frivolous bullshit posts (the Saban one - only because he is not Josh McDaniels) from the ones that actually try to add to the dialogue - like explaining why I don't have a "favorite candidate" because I have no idea who the right guy will be - and neither do Haslam and Banner until they actually bring some guys in and talk to them.

As opposed to simply repeating "I like Josh McDaniels" for 2 weeks.

BTW - do you mean "pissed" as in angry or as in drunk?

I don't know, man. What difference does it make? You're taking me too seriously.

You need to be able to discern my ball busting posts (all of them) from the ones that...um...I don't know what other kind there are (none of them).

But seriously, I kind of like McDaniels. Could you find out who his agent is so I know whether he can be any good?

[mattvan1]

Mattvan is pissed.

Never mind that that whole post is the antithesis of your 21 emoticon salute to Saban earlier.

Dude, you need to be able to discern frivolous bullshit posts (the Saban one - only because he is not Josh McDaniels) from the ones that actually try to add to the dialogue - like explaining why I don't have a "favorite candidate" because I have no idea who the right guy will be - and neither do Haslam and Banner until they actually bring some guys in and talk to them.

As opposed to simply repeating "I like Josh McDaniels" for 2 weeks.

BTW - do you mean "pissed" as in angry or as in drunk?

I don't know, man. What difference does it make? You're taking me too seriously.

You need to be able to discern my ball busting posts (all of them) from the ones that...um...I don't know what other kind there are (none of them).

But seriously, I kind of like McDaniels. Could you find out who his agent is so I know whether he can be any good?

Peace.

BTW, a quick search yields the fact that Josh McDaniels is represented by Bob LoMonte. Honestly.

At least according to wiki.

And with that startling, yet altogether depressing revelation which is hysterically funny on so many levels, I bid you a good night. I will now curl up into the fetal position, quietly weeping as I cradle what's left of a bottle of Maker's Mark.

[Hikohadon]

The best coach for the Browns is probably someone no one has heard of yet. Some switched on guy that isn't a media darling, that none of the talking head idiots who work for the WWL know, just some guy with a vision who works his ass off and relates well to players. Someone who demonstrates great organizational skills, is a capable leader, and can innovate.

Know how you find that guy? You interview. You keep an open mind and bring in a slew of candidates, some big names to keep the 80% (read you) happy, but also some unknowns that fit your profile. You don't talk to Bob Kraft a few times and then hand the keys to kingdom to the guy that went all in on Matt Cassell and then Tim Tebow.

Remember the ledging when these guys were hired?
Sean Payton
Mike McCarthey
John Harbaugh
Mike Tomlin

2 of the 3 HCs in the AFCN were hated by their fan bases when they were hired. Because they were unknown. Because they weren't big names or the popular choice. But FOs of the Steelers and the Ravens picked the guy that impressed them in interviews, not because they ran a certain scheme or were recommended by an agent, but because those guys were organized, knowledgeable, passionate, and good communicators who could lead.

And very few knew who the hell they were before they were hired.

Unfortunately, you also just described Pat Shurmur and many more failures just like him.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer exactly what you prefer. They go through the interview process and someone like a David Shaw - someone that isn't a big name and wasn't on the public radar but could do a good job - wows 'em and there ya go.

But there is no right way to do this that will always yield positive results. The "we know who our next coach will be before we even fire the old one" method is used plenty and probably is about as successful as a well-thought-out objective search.

Any number of candidates have the chance to be better than Shurmur (including McDaniels), so I can be somewhat optimistic on that front while still feeling like this franchise is fucked as long as Banner is pulling the strings.

Bet you never thought you'd miss Holmgren, did ya?

[mattvan1]

nm

[mattvan1]

nm

[mattvan1]

nm

[mattvan1]

Unfortunately, you also just described Pat Shurmur and many more failures just like him.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer exactly what you prefer. They go through the interview process and someone like a David Shaw - someone that isn't a big name and wasn't on the public radar but could do a good job - wows 'em and there ya go.

But there is no right way to do this that will always yield positive results. The "we know who our next coach will be before we even fire the old one" method is used plenty and probably is about as successful as a well-thought-out objective search.

Any number of candidates have the chance to be better than Shurmur (including McDaniels), so I can be somewhat optimistic on that front while still feeling like this franchise is fucked as long as Banner is pulling the strings.

Bet you never thought you'd miss Holmgren, did ya?

I started to miss Walrus the minute I started reading about Banner. As far last time -I am pretty sure the Shurmur hire falls much closer to the "we know who our next coach will be before we even fire the old one" than to an objective approach where several likely and unlikely candidates were interviewed.

IIRC, Walrus interviewed one Roony Rule guy (Perry Fewell?) and someone else. And that was it. But the next guy had to be a WCO guy, which pretty much narrowed the list.

Anyway, that's neither here or there. There's always hope and things will become a lot clearer about 12 days from now. (I hate myself for even trying to be optimistic, because deep down I know, as Browns fans, we are all doomed.)

[peeker643]

I know mattvan's last post hit four times, but I'm not changing it. It's the perfect representation of the thread and the thought of Lombardi running the football side of things.

[jerryroche]

Banner's next two hires will be HUGE. More than anything, it'll tell the fan base whether he's a collaborative/team guy or a "my-way-or-the-highway" guy. It may not be so bad to have an obersturmbannfuhrer as head coach (e.g. Paul Brown, Bill Belichick), but I'm not so sure you want one for a CEO.

[HoodooMan]

"Because deep down I know, as a Brown, as a Brown, as a Brown, as Browns fans we are all doomed!"

[Hikohadon]

I started to miss Walrus the minute I started reading about Banner. As far last time -I am pretty sure the Shurmur hire falls much closer to the "we know who our next coach will be before we even fire the old one" than to an objective approach where several likely and unlikely candidates were interviewed.)

Oh, I agree. He was picked out before Mangini hit the bricks.

I just meant he fell intothat category of coming out of left field, of fans not knowing who the fuck he was.

[mattvan1]

I know mattvan's last post hit four times, but I'm not changing it. It's the perfect representation of the thread and the thought of Lombardi running the football side of things.

How that happened I have no idea.

I blame the Mayans.

[leadpipe]

I started to miss Walrus the minute I started reading about Banner. As far last time -I am pretty sure the Shurmur hire falls much closer to the "we know who our next coach will be before we even fire the old one" than to an objective approach where several likely and unlikely candidates were interviewed.)

Oh, I agree. He was picked out before Mangini hit the bricks.

I just meant he fell intothat category of coming out of left field, of fans not knowing who the fuck he was.

The fans...and about 28 other front offices.

Christ, the Browns didn't even go "hot coordinator." They went "shitty, obscure" one.

"Hey, did you hear Fritz' kid got a job.?"

"Fritz' kid.....Fritz' kid...is he in the league somewhere?"

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

One guy who came from left field is Mike Smith

[pod2dawg]

David Shaw.

[SoulDawg74]

[quote="pod2dawg"]David Shaw.

Just signed an extension with the Cardinal


SoulDawg

[Govbarney]

Adam Schefter just reported that Banner is not interested in a coach looking for a second chance such as McDaniels. He is looking to institute a total culture change, and his short list of candidates include college coaches Chip Kelly, Bryan Kelly, and Bill O Bryan .

[pod2dawg]

David Shaw.

Just signed an extension with the Cardinal


SoulDawg

Dammit !!!!

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

O'Brien has said he's not interested in leaving PSU but I suppose a few million $ could change his mind like anyone else....

It wouldn't piss me off if he was the choice, thats for sure

[peeker643]

O'Brien has said he's not interested in leaving PSU but I suppose a few million $ could change his mind like anyone else....

It wouldn't piss me off if he was the choice, thats for sure

Thought I read where he has an $8million buy out should he leave. That's a lot of scratch for a guy who's never coached at top NFL level (or for just one year at major college level).

[Hikohadon]

One year coaching college? Not qualified to coach an NFL team, but maybe the Browns don't count.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

O'Brien has said he's not interested in leaving PSU but I suppose a few million $ could change his mind like anyone else....

It wouldn't piss me off if he was the choice, thats for sure

Thought I read where he has an $8million buy out should he leave. That's a lot of scratch for a guy who's never coached at top NFL level (or for just one year at major college level).

9 MIL but some discrepencies over penalties handed down

Thats all I know other than I liked what he did overall and with the offense in particular

..and all I said is it wouldn't piss me off...never said he was my choice...and he would be over McDaniels thats for damn sure

I have a copuple guys I like but like everyone else I'm just waiting and whatever I have to say now or later means nothing to the outcome

[plincoln]

One year coaching college? Not qualified to coach an NFL team, but maybe the Browns don't count.

Don't think of it as one year coaching college - think of it as one year removed from being the Patriots' OC. And really, when's the last time a Belichick coordinator failed as an NFL head coach? (wait, I'm going to need to think this one through....)

[Lubber]

McDaniels as head coach and he pries Greg Roman away from Harbaugh to be his Offensive Coordinator. We need young and innovative minds here who are not afraid to think outside the box.

[peeker643]

McDaniels as head coach and he pries Greg Roman away from Harbaugh to be his Offensive Coordinator. We need young and innovative minds here who are not afraid to think outside the box.

Why would Roman move laterally here when he can stay there and work with a QB who can actually play on a team that can actually win in a city that's actually liveable?

You gonna give him the Asst head Coach title? Okay.

Now San Fran does too and we're right back to the above.

You want Roman you'll need to make him your HC.

Same as if you want McDaniels.

[Lubber]

McDaniels as head coach and he pries Greg Roman away from Harbaugh to be his Offensive Coordinator. We need young and innovative minds here who are not afraid to think outside the box.

Why would Roman move laterally here when he can stay there and work with a QB who can actually play on a team that can actually win in a city that's actually liveable?

You gonna give him the Asst head Coach title? Okay.

Now San Fran does too and we're right back to the above.

You want Roman you'll need to make him your HC.

Same as if you want McDaniels.

That is probably true Peeker. In that case, I would rather take McD as the head guy since he has gotten his feet wet already in that position.

[YahooFanChicago]

...won't miss Shurmur one bit, almost anyone would be an upgrade. I think we will miss Heckert quite a bit and that move reeks of change just so Banner can bring in one of his own pals.

Hopefully they get this right but I doubt they do. Banner seems like a first class douche and if he gets it wrong we can at least look forward to him getting his public bullet in a few years.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Banner and Heckert both wanted final say on the 53-man, that wasn't going to work. Heckert would've been gonzo anyways if he gets offered the big chair elsewhere.

[pup]

As much as i liked Heckert for a vast majority of what he did...

Leaving the most important position on the field up to Colt McCoy, then Brandon Weeden is reason enough to fire him. And if you are going to say those were Mike Holmgren's picks, then I guess Tom didn't have "final say" as it was.

[YahooFanChicago]

I would feel a lot better with Heckert and the new coach making that call and Banner sticking to the business side. I'm sure Jimmy gave that power to Banner when he hired him and that was part of their negotiations but I'm not so sure how Banner is qualified to make those calls.

[YahooFanChicago]

As much as i liked Heckert for a vast majority of what he did...

Leaving the most important position on the field up to Colt McCoy, then Brandon Weeden is reason enough to fire him. And if you are going to say those were Mike Holmgren's picks, then I guess Tom didn't have "final say" as it was.

Heckert inhereted a roster that was a complete joke and is leaving a roster with a much upgraded OL, WR's, running backs and interior DL. He/they did it over 3 drafts without playing in the FA market yet.

The QB position is not good but I think we all know that is probably the spot that Holmgren was most interested in and where he was the supposed expert. Colt was definitely Holmgren's call. RGIII was a swing and miss which could very well be on Heckert but we all know Washington would have upped the ante on him even if Heckert would have further increased the Browns offer. Looking back now RGIII would probably have been worth it but at the time it was a lot to give up.

No GM is going to make every right call but in my opinion Heckert made a lot more good calls then bad ones and I think within a year or two (max) we would be back in the playoffs assuming we hired a decent HC.

If Banner and Co blow this up, bring in Lombardi and start over I don't think we see the playoffs in the next 3 years...I'm probably getting way ahead of myself on this but I definitely don't like the Heckert move.

[motherscratcher]

As much as i liked Heckert for a vast majority of what he did...

Leaving the most important position on the field up to Colt McCoy, then Brandon Weeden is reason enough to fire him. And if you are going to say those were Mike Holmgren's picks, then I guess Tom didn't have "final say" as it was.

Heckert inhereted a roster that was a complete joke and is leaving a roster with a much upgraded OL, WR's, running backs and interior DL. He/they did it over 3 drafts without playing in the FA market yet.

The QB position is not good but I think we all know that is probably the spot that Holmgren was most interested in and where he was the supposed expert. Colt was definitely Holmgren's call. RGIII was a swing and miss which could very well be on Heckert but we all know Washington would have upped the ante on him even if Heckert would have further increased the Browns offer. Looking back now RGIII would probably have been worth it but at the time it was a lot to give up.

No GM is going to make every right call but in my opinion Heckert made a lot more good calls then bad ones and I think within a year or two (max) we would be back in the playoffs assuming we hired a decent HC.

If Banner and Co blow this up, bring in Lombardi and start over I don't think we see the playoffs in the next 3 years...I'm probably getting way ahead of myself on this but I definitely don't like the Heckert move.

I'm not sure we all know that. In fact, don't we all know the exact opposite?

That being said, you're right, it was a lot to give up. The Browns probably thought they would have the best offer and they didn't. That's on them.

I do like Heckert, though, and wish he was staying. Like Pup, I'm not ready to march on Beurea over it.

[YahooFanChicago]

...who knows but watching Dan Snyder operate with regards to trades and F.A. signings he's not someone I would want to get into a bidding war against. If he wants something/someone he seems to be willing to pay anything to get them. I think we have all seen plenty of examples where he has way overpaid for players.

I guess I should just chill until I see who Banner brings in as HC and GM...I'm just not hearing of anyone that sounds like an upgrade to Heckert.

[peeker643]

Again, and not because I don't think Heckert did a decent job, but the point in a lot of this is that Heckert upgraded shit to, in many cases, a better quality of crap. He removed the tumors but left pneumonia or infection in many cases. The roster is better, I agree. Some of it markedly better as noted. But in many cases the improvement is marginal at best and there is the QB stuff that Pup noted.

I think you have to take that into consideration, as well as the moves they didn't make and the acquisition costs of what they obtained, before you can be too upset about Heckert.

I'd have been fine had Heckert stayed. I think he's caable and may have been somewhat limited because of the reporting structure (i.e.- Holmgren). But to put it into terms we use a lot, he's not 'elite'. Or at least he wasn't allowed to be and likely wouldn't have been allowed to be in this new regime either.

[pup]

And Heckert may very well end up being "elite" somewhere. Bully for him. He has a lot of what it takes.

Still doesn't make today's move any less correct.

[Govbarney]

Lovie Smith canned. I difficult coaching search climate just got even worse.

Chicago just became Destination #1 , followed by Philli, SD, and then maybe Cleveland as a distant third.

Cleveland has such a knack for timing.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

Daniels is out of the pic and so is Lombardi

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

nm

[Hikohadon]

Lovie Smith canned. I difficult coaching search climate just got even worse.

Chicago just became Destination #1 , followed by Philli, SD, and then maybe Cleveland as a distant third.

Cleveland has such a knack for timing.

I'm not sure that Philly is so attractive. They are $18 mil over the cap and have just as big a question mark at QB as we do.

[Govbarney]

Lovie Smith canned. I difficult coaching search climate just got even worse.

Chicago just became Destination #1 , followed by Philli, SD, and then maybe Cleveland as a distant third.

Cleveland has such a knack for timing.

I'm not sure that Philly is so attractive. They are $18 mil over the cap and have just as big a question mark at QB as we do.

Yea I guess with are youth infusion, cap space and Jimmy's pocketbook we may just be a more attractive option then Phili.

Lovie runs a 4-3 D and has recently found himself unemployed after a 10-6 season.
Just saying....

[googleeph2]

Lovie runs a 4-3 D and has recently found himself unemployed after a 10-6 season.
Just saying....

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2012/12 ... te_st.html

I see nothing wrong with that. Sign him and get Brandon Marshall over here, too.

He could be like the post-Browns Marty Schottenheimer.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Chicago still has their a hack of a GM, so it won't be the kind of guy Banner and Haslam are saying they're looking for.

What scares me more is that Smith and Reid are now on the market.

[pup]

Feel free to cross Josh off the list. Has informed teams he will not be interviewing at this time.

[mattvan1]

Chip Kelly?

The Cleveland Browns made it clear Monday they desire to find a strong leader at head coach after parting ways with Pat Shurmur.

Citing two high-ranking NFL personnel executives, Adam Caplan of SiriusXM NFL Radio says Oregon's Chip Kelly is Cleveland's clear top choice to coach the team.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000120803/article/chip-kelly-reportedly-tops-browns-coaching-wishlist