Browns @ Steelers: Shurmur's Final Fiasco

[peeker643]

Ad Holmgren's too. Wipe the slate clean.

I'm sure Pat is foaming at the mouth getting the team fired up to face the Steelers today.

Guys are probably ready to run through a wall (or at least a 2-man wedge) to send their inspirational leader out with a bang. At least until they get hit once. Then they'll be like, "Fuck this. Ain't gonna be gettin' hurt in this shit."

I'm watching til it makes more sense to clean out the garage.

[Erie Warrior]

Going to watch this disaster at a local watering hole.

Still holding out for Cribbs at QB

[pod2dawg]

Our line here is 10. It should be worse with what we're rolling out there.

The ONLY salvation I can see possible as everyone already has there lockers cleaned out in Berea is the guys may actually play hard to be on film in hopes the new regime notices or another team when they are released.

I pray Haslam has a plan and it ain't Lombard/McD ...........

[leadpipe]

I think today is the zenith of the "Bizarro Rivalry."

This went from arguably the NFL's #1 rivalry to today - two teams that could not give a rat's ass about anything other than getting home safely.

The Steelers have no respect for the Browns organization, their playoff hopes gone, while the Browns wouln't clip one of their fingernails for that dopey coach.

I don't care what the line is, LP is never wagering a game involving two teams that may not even know what the final score is when the gun sounds.

[rbm0183]

I have 2 predictions for this game (besides the obvious fact that the Browns will get destroyed):

1. One of Thad's first passes will be a dump off to Hardesty which he will drop.

2. We will see Josh Johnson at some point.

[Noodle]

Was it just me or did these tools called commentators refer to Bernie Kosar as "Barney?"

[jfiling]

About time we saw a QB that can run the WCO... as we play most likely our last game with that scheme.

[peeker643]

My God. I'll be nice and say that Travis Bejamin is "contact-averse" and leave it at that.

Thad Lewis = my favorite QB on roster whether or not anyone on either side of the LoS gives a shit about this game.

Only because he's not Brandolt McWeeden.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Brandolt McWeeden.

I like that.

[TouchEmAllTime]

Was it just me or did these tools called commentators refer to Bernie Kosar as "Barney?"

I missed that but did hear them say Brad Kiesel. When did we get Brandon Jackson? jk.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

Thats all the pts the Inbred will need today

..and if Lewis looks good, that just makes Ditz look worse for trying to pound a sq peg into a rnd hole

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

Pat Scurmur!

Its your last game as a HC anywhere at any level

You're down 7 with 10 seconds left in the half...

What do you do.....................................................?????

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp!

Wrong answer!

Fucking moron

[peeker643]

I wonder if the gun to end the game is still echoing when Schurmur gets officially fired.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

I hope its filled with hollow points and aimed at Schurmur's head

[googleeph2]

Billy Winn with the fighting penalty? So there is a guy on the Browns who cares as much as I do?

[Hikohadon]

Really the only positive that can come out of this game is if they shatter Fat Ben's knee.

[Hikohadon]

T-Rich out, running game benefits.

Now here's Bob with the weather.

[Hikohadon]

Damn, that stadium is as empty as ours.

[skatingtripods]

Damn, that stadium is as empty as ours.

Yet the moron pbp guy says that you need to give credit to Steelers fans for coming out even though the game has no playoff implications.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

Nice game Paddy...now go find a bottle to drown in

[peeker643]

Fired yet? (Looks at watch)

How about now? (Looks at watch)

He wouldn't get to the tunnel if I owned that team.

[TouchEmAllTime]

Just have a funny feeling that this next coaching/front office overhaul is going to be a train wreck also. I have no reason to believe otherwise until proven differently.

[FUDU]

After hearing the leaked info on his firing Shurmur should have called and confirmed with his boss, then just said screw it I won't be there Sunday. I mean what are the odds he gets a coaching gig ever again anyway, 35:1, not like his professionalism of actually showing up Sunday is gonna make him memorable to anyone, ever.

[leadpipe]

T-Rich out, running game benefits.

Now here's Bob with the weather.

But..but he broke one of Jim Brown's records...or something.

The position is basically irrelavent.

Clearly.

[FUDU]

As fans we allow certain performances to stir up QB controversies in CTown, why not the same with RBs? I mean it is a position with less significance in today's game, and Hardesty while healthy has looked good.

I'm only half joking.

Hate to say it but with exception of our Oline, and top 3 WRs, nobody on this offense should feel secure in their job.

[Hikohadon]

I would still trade every pick we have in the 2013 draft for Adrian Peterson.

That team wins 3 games without him.

[TouchEmAllTime]

I would still trade every pick we have in the 2013 draft for Adrian Peterson.

That team wins 3 games without him.

I would trade them all for Andrew Luck.

[Hikohadon]

I would still trade every pick we have in the 2013 draft for Adrian Peterson.

That team wins 3 games without him.

I would trade them all for Andrew Luck.

As would I.

Certainly not debating the importance of QB, just that the concept of "elite" RB still exists.

WR isn't an overly important position either (if you have the right QB), but I'd still trade this draft for Calvin Johnson.

[rbm0183]

So it's generally okay to say that after one season of watching T-Rich play at the NFL level he seems like a solid but unspectacular running back? He had runs of 10 or more in less than half of the games he played in and only 2 or maybe 3 runs of 20 or more. I love how hard he runs, but I really hope that injuries limited his explosiveness, because if what we saw is what we can expect from him going forward, then I think Jim Brown's original assessment may be closer to correct than I would have ever imagined.

When I watch Adrian Peterson and compare what he does with what Trent does - they aren't in the same league. Which may be unfair, because nobody is in AD's league right now - but if you trade up to use the 3rd overall on a running back he should be that kind of special, shouldn't he?

Or you should at least really miss him when he's out of the game, whereas the offense felt about the same today as far as the running game goes.

[FUDU]

I would still trade every pick we have in the 2013 draft for Adrian Peterson.

That team wins 3 games without him.

...yet they won't sniff a SB with him as their best player.

[googleeph2]

You just don't know yet. Peterson has spent chunks of a couple seasons out with injuries (incl. college).
Would he even have played this season, with the knee rehab and the ribs injuries Richardson has had? Who knows.

[peeker643]

TRich at 100% isn't as explosive a player/runner as Peterson. Maybe a better blocker and receiver in the backfield, and certainly a solid runner, stronger, better short yardage guy, etc., but anyone waiting for TRich to be "explosive" is going to be waiting a long time.

I like TRich and I'll be happy to have him here under a new regime and when he's healthy. But taking him where they did and at that price was a consolation prize/move for the failed attempt to trade up to #2.

[Triple-S]

T-Rich broke the record with Broken ribs.

RB coach said he had trouble breathing. We've not seen the best out of him yet.

[Hikohadon]

I would still trade every pick we have in the 2013 draft for Adrian Peterson.

That team wins 3 games without him.

...yet they won't sniff a SB with him as their best player.

Of course not. Have to have the QB too. My only point is that AP is elite and makes any team he's on better than if they had some schmoe.

If I was offered AP for all the 2013 draft picks, I'd take him. If I was also offered any one of 10 or so QB's, I'd take them instead.

[comish]

T-Rich out, running game benefits.

Now here's Bob with the weather.

But..but he broke one of Jim Brown's records...or something.

The position is basically irrelavent.

Clearly.

PS....can we at least wait for the new regime to do something stupid before we abandon all hope....please? This town anymore

[leadpipe]

I would still trade every pick we have in the 2013 draft for Adrian Peterson.

That team wins 3 games without him.

...yet they won't sniff a SB with him as their best player.

Of course not. Have to have the QB too. My only point is that AP is elite and makes any team he's on better than if they had some schmoe.

If I was offered AP for all the 2013 draft picks, I'd take him. If I was also offered any one of 10 or so QB's, I'd take them instead.

If you made this move it would be in the face of another inherent problem with modern running backs....the guy might have 2-3 years left maximum at this level.

I'm not trading an entire draft for 2-3 years of anybody on GGE.

[Hikohadon]

I bank on the fact that AP appears to be an exception and that 3 years of elite is still better than 0. Seeing as the odds are low that anyone they take in this draft is elite.

[LakeErieWarriors]

A balanced rushing attack is nice; ask NO, NE, and another team or two that I can't think of. Someone with an offensive mind more comprehensive than Shur/Chilly could make a nice Run game that could really keep defenses guessing.

[peeker643]

A balanced rushing attack is nice; ask NO, NE, and another team or two that I can't think of. Someone with an offensive mind more comprehensive than Shur/Chilly could make a nice Run game that could really keep defenses guessing.

The reason their running games provide balance is because their QBs are elite. Unless you're convinced Darren Sproles, Pierre Thomas, Stevan Ridley and Danny Woodhead are the catalysts behind the balance and the engines of those offensive machines.

Maybe I'm completely missing your point.

[Hikohadon]

I think maybe his point is those teams win without running games.

Which is a falsity. NO was a top 10 rushing team when they won the SB.

Still, those teams win with JAG at RB bc of their QB's. However, I'm sure everyone in NO and NE would prefer AP to Ridley or Thomas, and his presence would make already good offenses better.

[motherscratcher]

Hate to say it but with exception of our Oline, and top 3 WRs, nobody on this offense should feel secure in their job.

So, 3 guys aren't safe? And one of those 3 guys is TR, who is actually pretty safe?

So 2 guys. That's profound FUDU.

[LakeErieWarriors]

The reason their running games provide balance is because their QBs are elite. Unless you're convinced Darren Sproles, Pierre Thomas, Stevan Ridley and Danny Woodhead are the catalysts behind the balance and the engines of those offensive machines.

Maybe I'm completely missing your point.[/quote]

I think our passing game suffers from our lack of a legitimate run game.

Too predictable of an offense. No hurry-up. No audibles.

This team lost a handful of tight games with one of the worst coaches that even the Browns have ever had. There are teams capable of running an efficient WCO right now; just not it Cleveland, and these guys were to stupid to try something else that might work. Yes, you most definitely need an elite QB to get a Lombardi, but you also need above-average coaching.

[FUDU]

Just for that I'm using that as the name of my next start team.

[mattvan1]

Hate to say it but with exception of our Oline, and top 3 WRs, nobody on this offense should feel secure in their job.

So, 3 guys aren't safe? And one of those 3 guys is TR, who is actually pretty safe?

So 2 guys. That's profound FUDU.

Excellent point. The unfortunate irony is the guy who is not safe plays the most important position on the field.

[mattvan1]

I think our passing game suffers from our lack of a legitimate run game.

Too predictable of an offense. No hurry-up. No audibles.

This team lost a handful of tight games with one of the worst coaches that even the Browns have ever had. There are teams capable of running an efficient WCO right now; just not it Cleveland, and these guys were to stupid to try something else that might work. Yes, you most definitely need an elite QB to get a Lombardi, but you also need above-average coaching.

Our passing game suffers because we have had craptacular play at the QB position. Our run game suffers because we don't have a passing game.

It's 2012/2013.

You and Shur are stuck in the 1980's.

You are dead solid perfect with respect to the coaching.

[leadpipe]

::doh::

The reason their running games provide balance is because their QBs are elite. Unless you're convinced Darren Sproles, Pierre Thomas, Stevan Ridley and Danny Woodhead are the catalysts behind the balance and the engines of those offensive machines.

Maybe I'm completely missing your point.

I think our passing game suffers from our lack of a legitimate run game.

Too predictable of an offense. No hurry-up. No audibles.

This team lost a handful of tight games with one of the worst coaches that even the Browns have ever had. There are teams capable of running an efficient WCO right now; just not it Cleveland, and these guys were to stupid to try something else that might work. Yes, you most definitely need an elite QB to get a Lombardi, but you also need above-average coaching.[/quote]

For the 900th time...slowly....

There is a difference between having a running game, and allocating valuable resources for a PARTICULAR runner.

You run through the passing game in modern football. The Patriots, Saints and everyone the hell else is able to gain yards with ham and eggers because they run from advantages created by their passing formations. Hell, even the Steelers have run the ball the past several years like this. See a mismatch at the line, and hand it off. No mismatch? Well, the good teams move the ball the easiest way. The Browns and Jets "ground and pound."

Never said a running game was worthless, but, quite frankly, to my point, go ahead and peruse the last ten years of Super Bowls, and tell me how many runners lead the way.

Again, no bullshit here - of the last 8 RB's that played in that game - exactly ONE had over 900 yards (the great Rashard Mendenhall) There were a couple 800 yarders and four 700 yarders. Before that? Brandon Jacobs, Lawerence Maroney, Joe Addai, Thomas Jones...

This whole thing is silly. I've said enough, but Christ, go ahead and look this shit up if you happened to miss the last 7 years of games.

Trent might gain 1,600 yards next year. And it'll mean the same as all the very top echelon RB's of this modern era - LT, Larry J, AP, Clinton Portis....all those great Super Bowl runs those guys had....

[Hikohadon]

I don't know why any of what I said is causing disharmony.

The NFL is a QB league. We all know this. Can't win a SB without a really good QB. You CAN win a SB with a mediocre RB.

But maybe the Patriots win last year's SB if they have an Adrian Peterson. Maybe the Saints win a 2nd SB if they have an Adrian Peterson. Just like every other position that isn't QB, RB is a position where you CAN win without an elite player but it is easier and your team is better if you do have one. It's not like they're going to battle with Stevan Ridley and Pierre Thomas by choice. It's not like they wouldn't gladly take an elite RB if he were available to them.

There are few truly elite players in the league - players that can succeed anywhere with any supporting personnel - and Peterson is one of them. So I simply expressed how I would sacrifice a draft that has no elite QB's to get an elite player at another position, in this case, RB.

If an elite QB (or even a QB that was "good enough" to win a SB) were also available at the same time, I'd opt for the QB.

Peterson himself will not get this team anyplace special. But if an elite QB is not available to you, then you might as well get elite players at other positions to help the young franchise QB that you acquire down the road (if you ever find him).

My place in this discussion has NOTHING to do with Richardson or using this year's #3 pick on a RB.

[leadpipe]

I don't know why any of what I said is causing disharmony.

The NFL is a QB league. We all know this. Can't win a SB without a really good QB. You CAN win a SB with a mediocre RB.

But maybe the Patriots win last year's SB if they have an Adrian Peterson. Maybe the Saints win a 2nd SB if they have an Adrian Peterson. Just like every other position that isn't QB, RB is a position where you CAN win without an elite player but it is easier and your team is better if you do have one. It's not like they're going to battle with Stevan Ridley and Pierre Thomas by choice. It's not like they wouldn't gladly take an elite RB if he were available to them.

There are few truly elite players in the league - players that can succeed anywhere with any supporting personnel - and Peterson is one of them. So I simply expressed how I would sacrifice a draft that has no elite QB's to get an elite player at another position, in this case, RB.

If an elite QB (or even a QB that was "good enough" to win a SB) were also available at the same time, I'd opt for the QB.

Peterson himself will not get this team anyplace special. But if an elite QB is not available to you, then you might as well get elite players at other positions to help the young franchise QB that you acquire down the road (if you ever find him).

My place in this discussion has NOTHING to do with Richardson or using this year's #3 pick on a RB.

Hiko - my post wasn't in response to your point. Aimed at the follow-ups.

But I would say a team like New England is running Ridley, Vereen and Woddy by choice.

Cause they understand valuable assets such as high picks are better invested elsewhere. New England has about 9,000 picks each year after fleecing teams like the Raiders. They most certainly would, and would be very able to invest a top pick in a running back should they see it important.

Absolutely having a "premier" guy at the position would help, but A. At what cost to the rest of the team and B. As you state, those guys ain't easy to find.

The New England Patriots, as they sit, with 3 guys you could basically pick off the street at RB, would be better off drafting 6 guys that could rush the passer, hoping one pans out, then they would be drafting a high round running back. Same with the Saints drafting defense, and on and on.

You and I basically agree on the TR point. Others are a little delusional about today's NFL.

[Lubber]

Pipe..

This year is a little bit of an anomaly. The top 3 passers by yards are not in the playoffs, while the top 3 rushers by yards are in the playoffs.

Looking at the playoff teams, there are several teams without that elite QB guy, but instead have a main RB and solid defenses (Seattle, San Fran, Houston, Baltimore, Bengals, Vikings).

Is this just a one year anomaly, or a trend where defenses are doing a better job against pass heavy teams? Even the Packers struggled early until they committed more of their offense to the run mid season.

[Erie Warrior]

Anyone got info on Gordon's injury?