Lombardi / McDaniels

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

I'll start it. Are we not believing the smoke or are too stunned to comment about the rumors?

Honestly, I don't know if there's a fire or if Lombardi's sending smoke signals that Grossi's desperately trying to warn Haslam and Banner away from.

If there is a fire... its too late to get Jammies back, right?

[mattvan1]

I'll start it. Are we not believing the smoke or are too stunned to comment about the rumors?

Honestly, I don't know if there's a fire or if Lombardi's sending smoke signals that Grossi's desperately trying to warn Haslam and Banner away from.

If there is a fire... its too late to get Jammies back, right?

I guess it goes without saying that we all fervently hope Haslam is too smart and Banner is too crafty to go down that road, but......

Banner is on the record as saying that he favors a HC with more control/input on the 53. This sets up the possibility that a) They are going after a splashy, big name HC who will demand control and b) that the "GM" will not necessarily need to be a great talent evaluator. This also helps Banner from looking like a poisoned dwarf for firing Heckert - he won't have to. "We really wanted Tom to stay but he decided to pursue other interests"

It also seems that Haslam and Bob Kraft speak often - so once again we have an owner falling asleep while reading an autographed copy of "The Patriot Way", which is a pretty dangerous path IMO. WTF has any ex-Patriot done away from Belicheck? Not much.

So while I would be disgusted enough to want a revival of the Butch and Pete show, nothing about a Lombardi/McDaniels union runs counter to what has been publically expressed by Banner.

Still, I have got to believe that both guys are way too on the ball for this to occur.

[bookelly]

McDaniels is hired and I'm done. Later Brownies. I've been to one state fair, 5 rodeos and 3 dry weddings and that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[justmebd]

Where's that list of Belichick "Family" people who have had success outside of his umbrella of control?

You can't find that list, you say? It's actually a giant list of big, fat failures?

Really?

And we're talking about dating that skank with Hep C again?

I understand when you're drunk and haven't had sex for six months the fat chick looks more attractive than she really is, but you do have to wake up the next morning and chew your arm off.

[peeker643]

I like McDaniels.

I like his offensive mind, anyway. I like the idea of him more than the idea of Lombardi.I believe McDaniels ultimately grows up and is a successful head coach in right situation. Just not sure that's here.

And while I'd prefer Heckert over Lombardi, the well has been poisined here for Lombardi. Some of it his own fault, some the media campaign to crucify him. Like I said, I'm not a fan of his and I prefer Heckert to him, but people have a skewed perception of who he is and what he's done.

[Govbarney]

McDaniels may have been a bit overwhelmed in Denver. Not only was he trying to deal with the O, but he was trying to implement a new D as well. On top of all that he had to deal with the Tebow circus ( granted it was a disaster of his own creation, but I doubt McDaniels drafts his virgin ass if he knew ahead of time the chaos that would ensue).

Honestly there is no way I am comfortable with Lombardi, and as much as I would like to be able to rationalize it, I cant. But I can live with McDaniels IF he sticks to what he knows best, running a Offense, and lets Jouron, or some other 4-3 coordinator maintain total control the of the D.

[Sea Foam Green]

Wasn't part of McDaniels problem in Denver that he was given too much control over the 53? I'd think if we brought him here, we'd want him to stick to coaching, so as to avoid repeating another teams mistake.

That doesn't seem to fit well with what I'm hearing about Lombardi, though.

[motherscratcher]

I like McDaniels too. He's been at the top of my list for a few months now, at least until someone can provide me with a better candidate. I do understand the trepidation, though. But I just can't believe that any and every person with whom Belichick has coached is doomed to failure. I think it's been more coincidence and situation than any other reason for the current state of the Hoodie Tree.

As far as Lombardi goes, I wondered a week or so ago if it was unreasonable to think Lombardi might have improved in the last 2 decades. But Hiko has me pretty well convinced that we want nothing to do with him, so I'm going with that. Hiko is smarter than me.

[e0y2e3]

Everyone is smarter than you tooth driller.

[motherscratcher]

Bullshit. 1Perry is not smarter than me. He's not.

[bac5665]

McDaniels is fine as a coach. High risk/high reward. Whatever. But giving personal control to the man who TRADED UP to get Tebow is about as dumb as you can be.

[Sea Foam Green]

McDaniels' and Shurmur's resumes look pretty similar. Especially if you discount the first 10 years or so Shur spent in CFB. Both climbed the ranks, had success as a coordinator, then failed miserably as a head coach.

You bring in McDaniels you're putting a lot of weight towards the notion that his success with the Pats was not due to his proximity to Brady/Belichek.

Also, the last time McDaniels followed Patty directly, the team was markedly worse. Not sure you can blame that solely on an OC, but it is a data point.

[mattvan1]

I like McDaniels too. He's been at the top of my list for a few months now, at least until someone can provide me with a better candidate. I do understand the trepidation, though. But I just can't believe that any and every person with whom Belichick has coached is doomed to failure. I think it's been more coincidence and situation than any other reason for the current state of the Hoodie Tree.

As far as Lombardi goes, I wondered a week or so ago if it was unreasonable to think Lombardi might have improved in the last 2 decades. But Hiko has me pretty well convinced that we want nothing to do with him, so I'm going with that. Hiko is smarter than me.

Josh McDaniels had the hots for Matt Cassel, and then he drafted Tim Tebow 25th overall giving up a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.

As far as Belichick - not a single assistant has gone on to any level of success in the NFL as a HC. None. Not Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Al Groh, Jim Swartz, McDaniels, and Nick Saban.

To be fair, Saban is obviously having an unbelievable run at 'Bama, but not sure his tenure under Belichick in Cleveland counts for much. Bill O'Brien might turn around Penn State, but Weiss was poison at ND. Even Pioli is a train wreck in KC.

IMO Bob Kraft caught lightning in a bottle; a once a generation guy who really can do it all. And it seems that those skills aren't necessarily transferable to other coaches. I'm sick of Browns owners’ being obsessed with trying to emulate the Pats organization. Noble goal, but it can’t be done unless you get Belichick himself to run the show.

[bookelly]

The only reason they fire Heck/hire Lombardi is a coup where they know they land Saban. This McDaniels thing is a smokescreen, especially when they say they are going for a coach who has ultimate say on the 53. Because you really don't want McD with final control of the 53.

See the above comment about Tebow and remember how we got Hillis AND draft picks for Quinn. While McD was pulling the strings.

Guy is bad news.

[Ziner]

If McDaniels comes, is Tebow far behind? He is the one coach in the NFL that believed in him

[Hikohadon]

Trying to keep my emotion out of it...

McDaniels is obviously really bad with personnel, so he should have little to no control over player acquisition. Which means that will be the major responsibility of Lombardi, which Banner playing the Holmgren role. Great...

McDaniels is easily a better offensive mind than Shurmur. The offense should be much more dynamic and efficient under him.

McDaniels is still young and hopefully had a big slice of humble pie/big learning lesson in Denver.

Many assume McD would come in and institute a 3-4, although NE sort of morphs their D to fit their personnel and McD is an offensive guy, so there's some hope that he would leave well enough alone.

In the end, McD doesn't excite me at all, but he scares me less than Lombardi/Banner. He's at least proven that he can create a GREAT offense if given the tools. He just shouldn't be allowed to select the tools.

[e0y2e3]

If Mike Lombardi, Timmy Tebow and Josh McDaniels lives end up in Cleveland I'll literally die of laughter.

[Hikohadon]

If Mike Lombardi, Timmy Tebow and Josh McDaniels lives end up in Cleveland I'll literally die of laughter.

Yeah, if Tebow comes here, that may be all this poor fan can take.

[Govbarney]

Tebow has just asked to be traded... but I think he is destined to play north of the border.... and he may have to learn french, because it sounds like the Alouettes want him bad.

[e0y2e3]

I mean just read this:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_ ... -tim-tebow

Rex Ryan is the anti-christ for what he is doing to Timmy!

I just almost shed a tear that's so gawd damn heartbreaking.

[Hikohadon]

They went with a QB who has a chance (slight, but whatever) of being a real NFL QB.

Timmy ain't the future, they want to know more about McElroy.

Makes all the sense in the world.

Fuck that virgin prick.

[Govbarney]

Fuck that virgin prick.

ha ha

[justmebd]

Trying to keep my emotion out of it...

McDaniels is obviously really bad with personnel, so he should have little to no control over player acquisition. Which means that will be the major responsibility of Lombardi, which Banner playing the Holmgren role. Great...

McDaniels is easily a better offensive mind than Shurmur. The offense should be much more dynamic and efficient under him.

McDaniels is still young and hopefully had a big slice of humble pie/big learning lesson in Denver.

Many assume McD would come in and institute a 3-4, although NE sort of morphs their D to fit their personnel and McD is an offensive guy, so there's some hope that he would leave well enough alone.

In the end, McD doesn't excite me at all, but he scares me less than Lombardi/Banner. He's at least proven that he can create a GREAT offense if given the tools. He just shouldn't be allowed to select the tools.

You hit the big problem with McDaniels, the possible switch back to a 3-4 Defense. That, more than anything else, would set this organization back to square one again.

I fear the return of the Belichick Assitant Monster Ego problem if you hire McD as well.

My main problem with Lombardi has zero to do with what Grossi or anyone else think of him, and everything to do with the fact he spent 10 years in middle management before landing in the media as an analyst. That tells me no one ever thought enough of him or his work to give him a promotion.

THAT scares me.

[e0y2e3]

They went with a QB who has a chance (slight, but whatever) of being a real NFL QB.

Timmy ain't the future, they want to know more about McElroy.

Makes all the sense in the world.

Fuck that future Cleveland Brown.

Fixed that for ya

[mattvan1]

They went with a QB who has a chance (slight, but whatever) of being a real NFL QB.

Timmy ain't the future, they want to know more about McElroy.

Makes all the sense in the world.

And Rexy just might be giving a big 'ol to Woddy Johnson and Tannenbaum for most likely forcing Tebow on him which I'm pretty certain is the last thing Ryan wanted.

[Hikohadon]

They went with a QB who has a chance (slight, but whatever) of being a real NFL QB.

Timmy ain't the future, they want to know more about McElroy.

Makes all the sense in the world.

And Rexy just might be giving a big 'ol to Woddy Johnson and Tannenbaum for most likely forcing Tebow on him which I'm pretty certain is the last thing Ryan wanted.

Valid. Rex shoulda hired the firm of Harding & Gilooly to "take a whack" at the problem before the season started, thus saving himself the Tebow migraine.

[jerryroche]

McDaniels? Lombardi?? Tebow???
All this discouraging chatter is enough to put a big friggin' damper on the whole holiday season.

[YahooFanChicago]

Just watching all bets are off and they are saying that it's going to be Lombardi, McDanniels and our future QB is Ryan F'ing Mallet.

Apparently, Jimmy H was willing to pay Saban $100M over 10 years but according to Drennan he has an inside source that says Saban doesn't want to come to Cleveland.

This is getting worse and worse. We need a new coach we don't need to get rid of Heckert and we don't need to try and tap the Belichick tree again. Banner reminds me of some of the crapy big company Corporate HQ guys that are empty suits. Wants to make changes just to bring in "his people" even if Heckert inhereted a completely crap roster and has started to make progress. Seems Heckert never had a chance.

I know we all hate Art the traitor but atleast he knew how to build an organization.

[Govbarney]

Just watching all bets are off and they are saying that it's going to be Lombardi, McDanniels and our future QB is Ryan F'ing Mallet.

Apparently, Jimmy H was willing to pay Saban $100M over 10 years but according to Drennan he has an inside source that says Saban doesn't want to come to Cleveland.

This is getting worse and worse. We need a new coach we don't need to get rid of Heckert and we don't need to try and tap the Belichick tree again. Banner reminds me of some of the crapy big company Corporate HQ guys that are empty suits. Wants to make changes just to bring in "his people" even if Heckert inhereted a completely crap roster and has started to make progress. Seems Heckert never had a chance.

I know we all hate Art the traitor but atleast he knew how to build an organization.

Who exactly on ABAO is saying this? Is it a reporter , or some jack-off caller?

[YahooFanChicago]

Bruce Drennan is saying it and based on his sources

[YahooFanChicago]

Bruce Drennan is saying it and based on his sources

[Hikohadon]

Just watching all bets are off and they are saying that it's going to be Lombardi, McDanniels and our future QB is Ryan F'ing Mallet.

Apparently, Jimmy H was willing to pay Saban $100M over 10 years but according to Drennan he has an inside source that says Saban doesn't want to come to Cleveland.

This is getting worse and worse. We need a new coach we don't need to get rid of Heckert and we don't need to try and tap the Belichick tree again. Banner reminds me of some of the crapy big company Corporate HQ guys that are empty suits. Wants to make changes just to bring in "his people" even if Heckert inhereted a completely crap roster and has started to make progress. Seems Heckert never had a chance.

I know we all hate Art the traitor but atleast he knew how to build an organization.

Rather have Mallet than Tebow.

I didn't love Mallet coming out, but I didn't hate him.

His skill set is similar to Weeden's, and he'd know the system.

[TouchEmAllTime]

Bruce Drennan is saying it and based on his sources

Some of you guys on this site have better sources than Bruce Drennan does.

[Govbarney]

Bruce Drennan is saying it and based on his sources

So far everything I have heard connecting Lombardi and Mcdaniels with the Browns is based on total speculation, which people are passing off as fact.

As a QB prospect Mallet intrigues me. He has spent the last two years learning from one of , if not the best QBs in the game , and at 6'7 253 Lbs he is a mountain of a man, and is a shit ton more mobile then the AARP signal caller we currently have. As far as arm strength goes this is what ProFootball weekly said about Mallet "Rare arm strength - can generate the ball velocity of a JUGS machine"
His negatives where decision making , and consistency, two things age and being mentored by a HOFer may have fixed.

B/c of all this I cant see why NE would just let the guy they are grooming to take over when Brady departs go.

[Hikohadon]

Bruce Drennan is saying it and based on his sources

So far everything I have heard connecting Lombardi and Mcdaniels with the Browns is based on total speculation, which people are passing off as fact.

As a QB prospect Mallet intrigues me. He has spent the last two years learning from one of , if not the best QBs in the game , and at 6'7 253 Lbs he is a mountain of a man, and is a shit ton more mobile then the AARP signal caller we currently have. As far as arm strength goes this is what ProFootball weekly said about Mallet "Rare arm strength - can generate the ball velocity of a JUGS machine"
His negatives where decision making , and consistency, two things age and being mentored by a HOFer may have fixed.

B/c of all this I cant see why NE would just let the guy they are grooming to take over when Brady departs go.

Why ya gotta hate?

Age as of Training Camp:
Mallett - 25
Weeden - 29

HUGE difference there, I know. AARP indeed.

40 time:
Mallett - 5.37
Weeden - 4.89

If there's one thing that Mallett certainly IS NOT, it's mobile.

I personally don't see the guy as any kind of upgrade, but probably not a downgrade either. If you want to swap 'em out just for the sake of change, that's fine. I think it would be a big mistake to get excited about it, though.

[YahooFanChicago]

Mallet was at Tsun before R. Rod got there and then he took off for Arkansas because he wasn't mobile enough to run R Rods offense. I only watched Mallet play once and that was against tOSU in the Sugar Bowl and I was impressed by his passing and it was a couple of years ago but I thought he was more of a drop back passer. He definitely didn't look mobile against us in the Sugar Bowl.

In the NFL he hasn't gotten a chance to play yet and is 1 for 4 with a pick.

I don't know what you would see in Mallett that makes you say he is an upgrade vs Weeden. I'm not saying Weeden is the answer but I certainly wouldn't bank on Mallett as the answer either.

Hopefully none of this happens and whoever said Drennan doesn't have the best sources may be right. If it does happen though I think we are in for another shit sandwich when it comes to our Browns.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Yeah, I'm not sure how much of the Lombardi/McDaniels/Mallett (good grief) talk is actual fire, or if its just Lombardi publicly lobbying his ol' buddy Joe Banner for the remora- er- GM gig. With Grossi desperately trying to shout 'for the love of God, don't do it'.

I'd like to think they'd keep Heckert, but the rumor of him getting the Eagles team president job makes too much sense to discount.

[FUDU]

I'm Ok with McDaniels as HC, and I'm OK with a HC having a wish list of players for his system (it makes sense) but I am not OK with McDaniels having any real control over the 53.

I think McDaniels could make Weeden better, for the pot of coffee we'd have Weeden until we settle on his replacement in the draft (of 2015 or whenever).

[mattvan1]

I'm Ok with McDaniels as HC, and I'm OK with a HC having a wish list of players for his system (it makes sense) but I am not OK with McDaniels having any real control over the 53.

I think McDaniels could make Weeden better, for the pot of coffee we'd have Weeden until we settle on his replacement in the draft (of 2015 or whenever).

Just curious as to why? Not trying to pick a fight but wondering what you see in a guy who was radioactive in Denver, cannot deal with any player egos, valued Matt Cassell over Jay Cutler, and drafted Tim Tebow in the first round and gave away 3 picks to do so.

[FUDU]

I'm Ok with McDaniels as HC, and I'm OK with a HC having a wish list of players for his system (it makes sense) but I am not OK with McDaniels having any real control over the 53.

I think McDaniels could make Weeden better, for the pot of coffee we'd have Weeden until we settle on his replacement in the draft (of 2015 or whenever).

Just curious as to why? Not trying to pick a fight but wondering what you see in a guy who was radioactive in Denver, cannot deal with any player egos, valued Matt Cassell over Jay Cutler, and drafted Tim Tebow in the first round and gave away 3 picks to do so.

I think he knows offensive X's & O's really well, he's young and has plenty of fire, both of which I think can resonate well with a young team. Denver was his first true gig, probably not ready for it nor it ready for him. Plus as I said, I'm not sold on him buying the groceries though.

[peeker643]

Well, if behind door #1 is a bag full of dicks and I don't know what's behind door #2, I'm gonna say door #2 is an upgrade.

Now, Door #2 could be a nice, warm cup of ebola, and then I'm still screwed.

Mallet's a statue. He was also an asshole. I don't know what he is now in terms of QB/prospect/dickhead.

But (and this may surprise you guys) I'm not much of a Brandon Weeden fan. Again though, unlikely BB is keeping him around if he's useless. And it's also unlikely BB is giving him away for anything less than what he he drafted him with. Especially after a couple of years in that system.

Buyer beware with Mallet. And make sure you know where your wallet is when dealing with BB.

[mattvan1]

I'm Ok with McDaniels as HC, and I'm OK with a HC having a wish list of players for his system (it makes sense) but I am not OK with McDaniels having any real control over the 53.

I think McDaniels could make Weeden better, for the pot of coffee we'd have Weeden until we settle on his replacement in the draft (of 2015 or whenever).

Just curious as to why? Not trying to pick a fight but wondering what you see in a guy who was radioactive in Denver, cannot deal with any player egos, valued Matt Cassell over Jay Cutler, and drafted Tim Tebow in the first round and gave away 3 picks to do so.

I think he knows offensive X's & O's really well, he's young and has plenty of fire, both of which I think can resonate well with a young team. Denver was his first true gig, probably not ready for it nor it ready for him. Plus as I said, I'm not sold on him buying the groceries though.

My opinion
BB is the heart, soul, and brains of that outfit.

Banner has already stated the coach has control of the 53 - he wants the Philly model. So if that is the case you better get an experienced HC that knows his stuff. McDaniels is not that guy.

YMMV

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

Its all a smokescreen to keep the heat off of the real choice....Chucky

[mattvan1]

Its all a smokescreen to keep the heat off of the real choice....Chucky

No need to hide. Chucky as HC and even Bride of Chucky as GM is preferrable to Lombardi/McDaniels.

[Hikohadon]

Its all a smokescreen to keep the heat off of the real choice....Chucky

No need to hide. Chucky as HC and even Bride of Chucky as GM is preferrable to Lombardi/McDaniels.

Disregarding Lombardi, I'd rather have McD than Chucky. I might rather keep Shurmur than Chucky. That's how much I hate the waste of time that would be Chucky Does Cleveland.

[mattvan1]

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/12/19/12/Browns-rumors-still-surfacing-from-Bosto/landing_browns.html?blockID=837457&feedID=9926

Nothing new, but a bit of background on the source of the smoke

[Govbarney]

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/12/19/12/Browns-rumors-still-surfacing-from-Bosto/landing_browns.html?blockID=837457&feedID=9926

Nothing new, but a bit of background on the source of the smoke

I just cant believe they would hire the wunderkind Alec Scheiner, widely considered to be one of the best and brightest on the business side of the game, and then go and settle for chop liver on the football side, I cant except that Haslem would be that short sited.
He has got to know that you can have John D. Rockefeller , and Andrew Carnegie working the business side , but it don't mean dick if your product is a Yugo.

[Govbarney]

There is an article on Yahoo sports today by Jason Cole who quotes a source who says this:

...claimed that Saban has already begun interviewing potential assistants he would take to the Cleveland Browns with him. The source laid out the timing of how current Browns coach Pat Shurmur will be fired after the season, one or two candidates will be interviewed (complete with the name of a minority candidate) and that Saban will be hired on Jan. 8, the day after Alabama’s BCS title game tilt vs. Notre Dame.

[mattvan1]

There is an article on Yahoo sports today by Jason Cole who quotes a source who says this:

...claimed that Saban has already begun interviewing potential assistants he would take to the Cleveland Browns with him. The source laid out the timing of how current Browns coach Pat Shurmur will be fired after the season, one or two candidates will be interviewed (complete with the name of a minority candidate) and that Saban will be hired on Jan. 8, the day after Alabama’s BCS title game tilt vs. Notre Dame.

If it were to happen


But I don't think it will

[Hikohadon]

I'm of the mind that 60-something Nick Saban is just another big name for Cleveland to chew up and spit out, but I'm not sure I care too much anymore. I've already gone ahead and accepted that Lombardi/McDaniels/Mallett dungpile, so Saban would certainly be an uptick from that.

EDIT - I guess.