Padres interested in Ubaldo?/Hot Stove Talk

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Josh Hamilton to the Angels. Whoaly shit.

[peeker643]

Josh Hamilton to the Angels. Whoaly shit.

God, I do so hope he celebrates with a couple bumps and a couple broads.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Pujols
Hamilton
Trout
Trumbo

Jesus.......

[WiscTribeFan]

And any thoughts of Swisher signing here are out the door. Texas and/or Seattle are going to push hard at him.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Well if we hadn't just acquired Stubbs I might have been interested in Peter Bourjos, but that's a moot point now.

[TouchEmAllTime]

The Angels didn't learn their lesson after last year apparently. Can't wait for next season to crash and burn on them again.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

And he didnt give Texas the opportunity to match according to reports like he said he would.

I wonder if the Angels gave him a one time offer. I rememeber reading soemthing that other baseball front office types were not happy with Hamiltons intention to give the Rangers a chance to match.

[WiscTribeFan]

Nothing says danger like giving an addict $125M to spend.

Maybe Texas should get even by running dealers at him until he falls off the wagon.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Trout/Hamilton/Pujols the best baseball big 3 ever?

[Govbarney]

Does this put Trumbo on the Trade block?

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Does this put Trumbo on the Trade block?

No, it puts Morales and Bourjos on the block. Trumbo would DH and spell Pujols at 1B.

[Govbarney]

Trout/Hamilton/Pujols the best baseball big 3 ever?

I guess the Angles don't subscribe to the old baseball adage that "winning isn't everything".

[WiscTribeFan]

Tori Hunter's tweet on the subject was classic:

Torii Hunter ‏@toriihunter48

I was told money was tight but I guess the Arte had money hidden under a Mattress. Business is business but don't lie.
Retweeted by Buster Olney

[Dnthateonthepronk]

Tori Hunter's tweet on the subject was classic:

Torii Hunter ‏@toriihunter48

I was told money was tight but I guess the Arte had money hidden under a Mattress. Business is business but don't lie.
Retweeted by Buster Olney

I saw that. Awesome. To be fair though, all they did was take the money they were gonna offer Greinke and get Hamilton. Torri had to have known they were talking about not having money meaning after they took money and signed Grienke.

[peeker643]

Poor Torii. Hope he can squeak by. Okay to go to where the cash is and leave a fan base, often times being a duplicitous asshole while doing so, but God forbid it go the other way.

The whole lot of 'em are lying assholes and Hunter's too old to feign surprise or indignation.

[leadpipe]

Tori Hunter's tweet on the subject was classic:

Torii Hunter ‏@toriihunter48

I was told money was tight but I guess the Arte had money hidden under a Mattress. Business is business but don't lie.
Retweeted by Buster Olney

I saw that. Awesome. To be fair though, all they did was take the money they were gonna offer Greinke and get Hamilton. Torri had to have known they were talking about not having money meaning after they took money and signed Grienke.

Don't over think this.

The standard line from every team to guys that are old and can't really play anymore is "Money's tight."

[skatingtripods]

How does a Swisher signing fit in to a rebuild? Solid player, great guy, would be an instant fan favorite, but at a time where we're trying to move anything that's not nailed down, why would we want a relatively expensive vet? We're not in win-now mode.

Precisely. I hope they don't sign him unless it's with dealing him at this or the next deadline for more young, high-upside prospects in mind.

I know what time it is and I know we're far enough away from last season and close enough to this next one that hopes turn to fancy and spring eternal.

But...

Get the young guys. Follow the trail of young, elite pitching. If you stockpile that you can get absolutely anything else you need. And I'd be all for turning AsCab and Perez into that.

Who said we were rebuilding? What move this offseason has signified a rebuild? What move last offseason signified a rebuild?

We're not "moving anything that's not nailed down" for Single and Double-A prospects. Why haven't we moved Cabrera, Masterson, Perez, etc.? Because we haven't been offered MLB-ready talent for them.

That's not a rebuild, boys. We are not rebuilding.

Rebuilding maybe in the sense that we're trying to build a Major League team, something we haven't had since pretty much 2007. But we haven't blown anything up.

[motherscratcher]

Yup.

Some might be of the opinion that they SHOULD rebuild. But right now they aren't.

I think moving high priced soon-to-be free agents for talent is different from rebuilding.

I've heard some people ask "If we are going to sign Swisher, why not just extend Choo instead?" But that's not the right question.

The option isn't Choo vs Swisher. The option is Choo vs Swisher + Bauer. We should always be looking to maximize the value of the assets we have. And hats what we did with Choo. And hopefully will do with Cabrera and Perez.

[leadpipe]

In the shape the team is in. in the market this team is in.....if they exhaust any resources to win in the next couple years, well, that's a stone cold stupid idea.

And yes, I understand you don't flip Cabby for a box of rocks and all that....

But you need to be within miles of close for that to make sense. Not, "I hope the division sucks and anything can happen close" I mean close to having a GOOD major league team.

They are not CLOSE. Picking up Nick Swisher does not make them close.

Good holy Christ this is easy to see.

[peeker643]

In the shape the team is in. in the market this team is in.....if they exhaust any resources to win in the next couple years, well, that's a stone cold stupid idea.

And yes, I understand you don't flip Cabby for a box of rocks and all that....

But you need to be within miles of close for that to make sense. Not, "I hope the division sucks and anything can happen close" I mean close to having a GOOD major league team.

They are not CLOSE. Picking up Nick Swisher does not make them close.

Good holy Christ this is easy to see.

They just need Bauer to be Strasburg, Masterson to be 2011 Masterson, Ubaldo to figure it all out and Tomlin and Carrasco to be healthy and not blow.

They are pretty close.

Like I said, Tis the Season for last year to have been forgotten and this coming season to be far enough away that the face looks pretty.

If they just get Swisher and all the above happens....

Okay "boys", I won't argue. But we can bet $10 per game above/below 81 games they win.

So 81 is the baseline

They finish 86-76 and I owe moscratch and tripods $50

They finish 71-91 and they owe me $100 each.

Because I think they're in big enough trouble that if they ain't rebuilding they damn well should be.

[motherscratcher]

It is easy to see, LP, and I thnk everyone here sees it.

I think this core just isn't quite good enough, and the best course of action is to go full on rebuild. I don't think anyone we could realistically add to this team in the next 2 seasons will make them good enough to be legitimate contenders.

I like Kipnis, Chis, Brantley, and Santana. But as much as we want them to be, those guys just aren't on the level of Posey, Cain, and Baumgarner. Or Verlander, Cabrera, and Prince. And if that's your core that you are building around, you need to get really lucky.

I think they need to clear the decks of Masty, Perez, and Asdrubal with the best prospects ready to make an impact in 2015, simultaneous with the arrival of Lindor, and with some time left with the aforementioned "core" who should still have a few years left of service time.

And if it isn't happening them, do it all over again.

Windows are small.

[motherscratcher]

I got off track in that last post. I wanted to talk ant Swisher.

I agree the adding Swisher does nothing really as far as contending in the next few years, so in that sense it's wasted money. It would really make no difference to me if they didn't sign him and throw a cheaper option out there.

However, I don't see how signing Swish really impedes a contention in 2015 plan. He would have a few years left as a potentially important piece, or possibly have some trade value. Or he could turn into another Hafner albatross. But you just can't live your life in fear of the next Hafner. I think it's unlikely that Swish would fall off a cliff like that anyway. Ad he's not a DH, yet.

Ad there's something to be said for trying. To putting the best out there that you can, even knowing it won't be enough. And I believe Sap knows it better than anyone that nothing short of a bunch of plane crashes will get us there in the next few years.

Competitiveness matters, it matters in the clubhouse, and it matters at the gate. And there is a difference between 69 wins and 82 wins, even if neither get you not October.

[motherscratcher]

Typing on an iPad is farts

[skatingtripods]

I think this core just isn't quite good enough, and the best course of action is to go full on rebuild. I don't think anyone we could realistically add to this team in the next 2 seasons will make them good enough to be legitimate contenders.

I like Kipnis, Chis, Brantley, and Santana. But as much as we want them to be, those guys just aren't on the level of Posey, Cain, and Baumgarner. Or Verlander, Cabrera, and Prince. And if that's your core that you are building around, you need to get really lucky.

I think they need to clear the decks of Masty, Perez, and Asdrubal with the best prospects ready to make an impact in 2015, simultaneous with the arrival of Lindor, and with some time left with the aforementioned "core" who should still have a few years left of service time.

And if it isn't happening them, do it all over again.

Windows are small.

This. All of it.


I was merely pointing out that they clearly don't think they're rebuilding. You don't sign Mark Reynolds, put out a big offer to Victorino, or aggressively pursue Swisher if you think you're rebuilding.

I've said all along that the best course of action to take it to blow it up and start from the ground up. But I've accepted the fact that they aren't doing that this winter. As long as they get better, that's all I want to see. Whether it's futile or not, if they're a more interesting team to watch this summer, that's a good thing.

[peeker643]

I think this core just isn't quite good enough, and the best course of action is to go full on rebuild. I don't think anyone we could realistically add to this team in the next 2 seasons will make them good enough to be legitimate contenders.

I like Kipnis, Chis, Brantley, and Santana. But as much as we want them to be, those guys just aren't on the level of Posey, Cain, and Baumgarner. Or Verlander, Cabrera, and Prince. And if that's your core that you are building around, you need to get really lucky.

I think they need to clear the decks of Masty, Perez, and Asdrubal with the best prospects ready to make an impact in 2015, simultaneous with the arrival of Lindor, and with some time left with the aforementioned "core" who should still have a few years left of service time.

And if it isn't happening them, do it all over again.

Windows are small.

This. All of it.


I was merely pointing out that they clearly don't think they're rebuilding. You don't sign Mark Reynolds, put out a big offer to Victorino, or aggressively pursue Swisher if you think you're rebuilding.

I've said all along that the best course of action to take it to blow it up and start from the ground up. But I've accepted the fact that they aren't doing that this winter. As long as they get better, that's all I want to see. Whether it's futile or not, if they're a more interesting team to watch this summer, that's a good thing.

Got ya. I thought you were endorsing that a couple guys like Bauer and Swisher would elevate this team to contention. I don't see that happening regardless of how much I wish it was the case.

[peeker643]

By the way, I'm really interested this year to see how close to 'normal' Carrasco is. He had a 6 week period in 2011 when he was nearly untouchable.

He's only 25 today and as misguided as it may be, if he can be anything close to June 2011 (when it looked like he was figuring it out before the injury) that would be HUGE.

[dazindiansfanuk]

They just need Bauer to be Strasburg, Masterson to be 2011 Masterson, Ubaldo to figure it all out and Tomlin and Carrasco to be healthy and not blow.

Ah man..... Tomlin's out for the year most likely...... so close!

[skatingtripods]

Got ya. I thought you were endorsing that a couple guys like Bauer and Swisher would elevate this team to contention. I don't see that happening regardless of how much I wish it was the case.

Depends on the rest of the offseason. I think they'd need at least two more impact starters, definitely Swisher, and a proven LH reliever before contention should even be discussed.

But, no, I was mostly just saying that this isn't a rebuild and there's no reason to believe they're in a rebuild.

[bac5665]

I think what they are doing is trying to add a piece or two to see what happens this year. We play to the trade deadline and see what happens. We have a bunch of players that all have huge talent but haven't put it together. If they do, we could contend this year. I doubt that will happen, but I think this FO is giving those players 1 last chance. I'll be shocked if we aren't sellers at the trade deadline if Masty, Santana, Kip et al. haven't found a way to be the elite players they were projected to be.

[googleeph2]

I don't even consider the position players much when I size them up. Do they have, or will they get, the starting staff to contend with? If so, great: the lineup can be figured out with in-house guys and minor acquisitions.

If not (as with this team), move the required position players to get them. The Bauer thing was probably just a perfect storm thing but if they are able to get another guy or 2 like that, trade the position players needed to get them.

Starting staff >>>>>> pretty much all of our position players, especially since they have that bullpen stocked.

Really magnifies the horrible way the CC and Lee trades panned out.

[Boog]

Heya fellas. Long time lurker, first time poster ;)

Just read over on mlbtraderumors; "The Angels are “very likely” to trade an outfielder such as Peter Bourjos or Mark Trumbo for a pitcher."

Think Masty and pieces could net us Trumbo? Another corner outfielder or DH with pop, and he's right handed. I'd love to see him in a Tribe uni!

[motherscratcher]

Heya fellas. Long time lurker, first time poster ;)

Just read over on mlbtraderumors; "The Angels are “very likely” to trade an outfielder such as Peter Bourjos or Mark Trumbo for a pitcher."

Think Masty and pieces could net us Trumbo? Another corner outfielder or DH with pop, and he's right handed. I'd love to see him in a Tribe uni!

Welcome, dude. Don't be a stranger.

That doesn't sound bad on the face of it, but I'm wishy washy on Trumbo. I haven't made up my mind how much I like him. And I'm still hoping that last year ( and every other year besides 2011) was an outlier for Masty. I'm nothing if not an optimist. I'm willing to be swayed on this one.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

If it was Masty for Trumbo straight up, I might think about it but then we are subtracting pitching. Masty may not be as good as 2011 but I find it hard to believe he is as bad as 2012. Plus we need to be in the business of adding pitching not getting rid of it, but if they were able to deal Asdrubal for more pitching then I would probably be okay with that type of deal All that said I dont think the Angels would do that deal anyways so its a moot point IMO.

[Boog]

I don't like subtracting pitching either, but Trumbo is the type of right handed bat we've been looking for for years. The downside to aquiring Trumbo would be that we're adding another 150+ K hitter. Stubbs, Reynolds, Trumbo...thats a lot of Ks, lol. It's hard to say what we are going to get out of Masty. Getting rid of Asdrubal for more pitching would definitely be a must, IF a deal along those lines was to happen.

[Adverb Harry]

Boog...in honor of your namesake, may I suggest a new avatar picture?



Next to some mid 90s pictures, that's possibly my all time favorite Indians image.

[phutatorius]

Is that Santa Claus? Where's his beard?

[British_Pharaoh]

Swisher visiting the Indians FO tonight.
Olney among others believe we are going to make a massive push for Swisher and possibly even try and get him signed to a deal before he meets with other teams. I'm not so sure we will achieve that as Swisher knows the Rangers and M's have deeper pockets but fingers crossed.

per rotoworld/twitter

[British_Pharaoh]

Ethier is on the block

Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News reports that the Dodgers are shopping Andre Ethier.
The Dodgers have denied trying to trade Ethier this offseason, but it remains possible he could be moved if any team is willing to take on his massive contract. Feinsand speculates that if Ethier is dealt, the Dodgers could be in the mix for Nick Swisher, who is scheduled to make multiple free agent visits this week.

Rotoworld

He's owed $85m until 2017 which is more than we are likely to be offering to Swisher, but to be fair I'd prefer Ethier over Swisher.
If the Dodgers send $10m in a deal I'd rather we try to acquire Ethier

I think a deal is contingent on them landing Swisher, but anyone think we could make a trade work?

[skatingtripods]

Jonah Keri ‏@jonahkeri
Dodgers have "zero intention" of trading a 30-year-old corner OF who can't hit LH, runs poorly, plays lousy defense & is owed $85 million.

In other words, like Keri, I'd have no interest in Ethier.

[skatingtripods]

The gist of our pitch to Swisher is this:

Tom Withers ‏@twithersAP
Told Progressive Field lights are on and Nick Swisher's face is on scoreboard as team tries to land free agent, who is visiting today.

All Bets Are Off ‏@ABAOSTO
Just took a peak at the progressive field scoreboard & Swishers name was up in lights, Batting 4th and on the Day had a Single & 2HRs

Jordan Bastian ‏@MLBastian
Reports @Loede923TheFan: Indians showed Swisher a video message on scoreboard with big names (like Thad Matta) to entice him to "come home."


And Twitter jumps on the opportunity to make fun of us:

Brandon McCarthy ‏@BMcCarthy32
what is he a HS recruit? RT @twithersAP Progressive Field lights are on and Nick Swisher's face is on scoreboard as team tries to land FA

Brandon McCarthy ‏@BMcCarthy32
"Sure you spent four years with the most recognizable baseball team on Earth but here's your name & face on OUR scoreboard. Ready to sign?"

Chris Kluwe ‏@ChrisWarcraft
@BMcCarthy32 @twithersAP Don't you know the greatest inducement for a professional athlete to sign as a FA is to see electricity in action?!

Craig Calcaterra ‏@craigcalcaterra
@BMcCarthy32 They're giving him the whole in-season experience too: the ballpark is empty.

[peeker643]

I agree with Kluwe, McCarthy and Calcaterra.

And the 'ballpark is empty' line is excellent.

Hope someone left a light on downtown when he came in last night or at least spray-painted "We Love You, Nick!!" on one of the boarded up buildings.

[skatingtripods]

I agree with Kluwe, McCarthy and Calcaterra.

And the 'ballpark is empty' line is excellent.

Hope someone left a light on downtown when he came in last night or at least spray-painted "We Love You, Nick!!" on one of the boarded up buildings.

Calcaterra's from New Albany. He's a Tribe fan, at least as far as I can tell from his Twitter picture in which he's wearing a block C cap.

We have good restaurants and good hospitals. Beyond that, Cleveland a near impossible sell to a FA who has 4-5 interested parties.

Maybe they had lunch while watching reruns of Reba featuring Swisher's wife Joanna Garcia.

[British_Pharaoh]

I agree with Kluwe, McCarthy and Calcaterra.

And the 'ballpark is empty' line is excellent.

Hope someone left a light on downtown when he came in last night or at least spray-painted "We Love You, Nick!!" on one of the boarded up buildings.

haha

I remember reading of how we tried similar tactics when BJ Ryan was visiting the Indians.
That worked a treat.

Embarrassing

[skatingtripods]

I remember reading of how we tried similar tactics when BJ Ryan was visiting the Indians.
That worked a treat.

Embarrassing

We're lucky we didn't get saddled with BJ Ryan. If you guys think the Hafner signing was painful, just imagine if we had gotten Ryan.

[Govbarney]

Dark, Cold , and Gray is always a tough sell.

Summer is the only time of year you have a chance of showing off the city in a positive light.

[British_Pharaoh]

I remember reading of how we tried similar tactics when BJ Ryan was visiting the Indians.
That worked a treat.

Embarrassing

We're lucky we didn't get saddled with BJ Ryan. If you guys think the Hafner signing was painful, just imagine if we had gotten Ryan.

That's true

where is he now?

[skatingtripods]

where is he now?

Couldn't find anything. He never "officially" retired, but hasn't pitched in the bigs since 2009.

I asked Jonah Keri on Twitter where BJ Ryan is now and his response was:

Jonah Keri ‏@jonahkeri
@SkatingTripods Hopefully lying on his pile of tens of millions of dollars.

[dazindiansfanuk]

Fausberto Carnandez signs with Tampa Bay.

1 year, $3.25m

More than I thought he'd get.

EDIT: An additional $1.85m in incentives, some of which based on IP and some based on relief appearances. So, could start or relieve.

[British_Pharaoh]

I'm thinking Swisher ain't going to be sitting in the home dugout at Progressive Field if the rumoured 4 year $50m offer is to be believed.

[skatingtripods]

I'm thinking Swisher ain't going to be sitting in the home dugout at Progressive Field if the rumoured 4 year $50m offer is to be believed.

I'm betting it's higher than that. I personally think the Indians went closer to 4/56 and are hoping their rumored offer stays on the low end and maybe lets them sneak in with the highest or second-highest bid.