Padres interested in Ubaldo?/Hot Stove Talk

[skatingtripods]

Reynolds over Youk? No effin way. Which hole does Reynolds fill that Youk does not? I was begging them to buy into a return to form from Youk last year and still think he brings a lot to the table.

Just personal preference. The two aren't all that different in terms of production and both would benefit physically from a move to playing 1B full-time. I do like Francona's familiarity with Youkilis.

I'd just rather have 30 HRs than 18-20. I think we need that additional power element.

Edit: Yankees offer is 1 yr 12M, Indians (Rosenthal says "other teams") is 2/16 or 2/18.

[googleeph2]

I am not a metrics guy, just an old AL fan.

I like letting the bona fide HR guys swing for the HRs. K rates be damned.

Make all the other (esp. young) guys be selective at the plate.

[WiscTribeFan]

The Tribe lost Hector Rondon and TJ McFarland in the Rule 5 draft.

[peeker643]

The Tribe lost Hector Rondon and TJ McFarland in the Rule 5 draft.

And added AA 1B from Texas, Chris McGuiness.

From Nino Colla's entry in the Hitting Fan Article on Winter Meetings:

Chris McGuiness: En route to this year's AFL MVP award, McGuiness belted four home runs and hit .283 in the Fall League. McGuiness hit 23 home runs and knocked in 77 runs for Double-A Frisco in the Rangers organization. This is interesting and perhaps just a 25,000 gamble that McGuiness comes in and wins a job in the spring. I have a hard time seeing someone jump from Double-A to the majors and playing a big part in the Indians plans, but stranger things have happened.

[peeker643]

More on McGuiness:

Scouting Report: Left-handed batter, hits with an open stance that he closes on pitch approach while employing a timing tap. He's a little loud at the plate with some waving of his hands during his stance. Finishes with a two-handed follow through up around his back, a bit of an uppercut swing. Excellent plate discipline, doesn't jump out at balls, tracks pitches right into the glove. He uncoils with his swing and has a shorter stroke. The ball comes off his bat well - he doesn't create a lot of lift, but hits through the ball with a little top spin. Should excel, even against more advanced pitching. Average power potential. Below average speed. Intelligent. Solid defensively, picks errant throws well.

http://soxprospects.com/players/mcguiness-chris.htm

Posted Oct. 11, 2012 10:47 am by J.J. Cooper
Filed under: Arizona Fall League, Daily Dish
We're taking a look at the good, the bad and the in between from Wednesday's Arizona Fall League games.

The Good

• In one of the deepest farm systems in the game, it’s harder for a prospect to get noticed. First baseman Chris McGuiness is the best first base prospect in the Rangers’ system if you view Mike Olt as a third baseman. Acquired from the Red Sox in the Jarrod Saltalamacchia trade, McGuiness has a very good feel of the strike zone, uses the opposite field well and is starting to tap into his solid power potential. On Wednesday, McGuiness went 4-for-5 with a double and a home run. McGuiness will be Rule 5 eligible if he isn’t added to the 40-man roster.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/pro ... the-plate/

[WiscTribeFan]

In an organization with such a lack of pitching, I find it strange that we exposed a couple of guys that might be useful. Sounds like that 1B might be a solid find. Perhaps a deal with Texas to allow us to keep him in the organization, but in AAA where it sounds like he should be.

[skatingtripods]

This week has to be considered a disappointment for Antonetti. He spent a lot of time talking with the Diamondbacks who appear to want Lindor, Simmons, or Profar instead of Cabrera or Andrus. Finished second on Victorino and Bay. Will likely finish second on Youkilis. They didn't seem to talk to any of the free agent pitchers because the Greinke saga is dragging on. The market for Choo just isn't there right now.

Obviously, it's early in the offseason and there are plenty of moves to be made, but you can tell by their aggressiveness early in the week that they wanted to make a splash and came up short in every endeavor they made this week. Not to say that they're panicking or anything, because a lot of free agents remain unsigned, but I think they went into this week thinking they'd pick up Bauer/Skaggs + prospects from Arizona for Cabrera and that they'd get a couple of their target FA guys. They went out of their comfort zone on an offer to Victorino. Went an additional year and more annual money than they probably wanted to, and still fell short.

Hopefully some of the groundwork that they've laid will pay off throughout the rest of the offseason, but they spent a lot of time and energy to likely return home no better than when they left.

[dazindiansfanuk]

In an organization with such a lack of pitching, I find it strange that we exposed a couple of guys that might be useful. Sounds like that 1B might be a solid find. Perhaps a deal with Texas to allow us to keep him in the organization, but in AAA where it sounds like he should be.

Rondon's barely pitched for 2 years due to injury and two surgeries.

McFarland is another soft-tossing lefty.

No great loss and are unlikely to stick..... Rondon has the better chance of the two probably.

[Spin]

I want to cover the Winter Meetings next year. Fly me to Florida, put me up in a hotel, and I'll report on every Tribe move, right from there.

Never mind that in the past few years the Tribe has averages 0.0000000000 improvements at the Winter Meetings. I wanna go!!!

[Adverb Harry]

Hey, not so fast, all you front-office bashers: we DID sign a free agent today!

We got Kota Kobayashi on a minor-league deal! So, there's that.

http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=828069-indians-one-signed

PS: There's a good Kaz Tadano joke somewhere in this, but I'm having trouble finding it. The best I can do is that Kaz Tadano regrets not being able to be on a team with our new player, thanks to a little word association he worked out: That one Kobayashi guy can eat all those hot dogs, hot dogs are also known as wieners, and Kaz Tadano, well, we know how he feels about those.

Sorry, best I can do.

[pup]

I want to cover the Winter Meetings next year. Fly me to Florida, put me up in a hotel, and I'll report on every Tribe move, right from there.

Never mind that in the past few years the Tribe has averages 0.0000000000 improvements at the Winter Meetings. I wanna go!!!

Not that the results would change, but you aren't going to get a lot of live updates in Florida...Winter Meetings are in Nashville.

And relax, they laid a ton of groundwork for future deals they will not be able to finish.

[dazindiansfanuk]

Not that the results would change, but you aren't going to get a lot of live updates in Florida...Winter Meetings are in Nashville.

They're in Orlando next year.

[WiscTribeFan]

Sounds like we overplayed our A-Cab demands a bit. One minute Antonetti's the darling of Arizona's War Room with the centerpiece of a multi-team deal, the next minute he and Francona are asked to leave and not come back...

[pup]

Not that the results would change, but you aren't going to get a lot of live updates in Florida...Winter Meetings are in Nashville.

They're in Orlando next year.

Of course they are.

My bad.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

LOL! ZOMG UR WUR SOOOO WRONG!

[Adverb Harry]

Sounds like we overplayed our A-Cab demands a bit. One minute Antonetti's the darling of Arizona's War Room with the centerpiece of a multi-team deal, the next minute he and Francona are asked to leave and not come back...

Yeah. Who knows what really happened behind the scenes--and what's still in motion--but if they had a deal in place to acquire Skaggs or Bauer, plus at least another decent prospect or two from the sounds of things, AND they got greedy and still asked for more, well, they kind of blew it. Nothing wrong with holding out for the best deal, but they may have over-valued Cabrera a bit here. Hopefully we don't come to regret this non-move if the Diamondbacks go in another direction.

[Jumbo]

So the Tribe is still out there on Swisher and Youkilis. According to MLBTR, relinking various reports:

(1) They've essentially offered their "Shane Victorino money" to Swisher - 4 years, $48-50M, but it's possible the market has him more in the 4/60 range. It's unclear what other teams are interested.
(2) Youkilis is deciding between 2/18 from the Indians and 1/12 from the Yankees.

Both offers seem entirely reasonable for above-average, early 30s FAs in the current market. For one thing, I like Swisher a lot more than Victorino at that tier. It's unclear whether the offers are mutually exclusive, but the Youk offer seems short enough that it wouldn't preclude doing both.

[peeker643]

So the Tribe is still out there on Swisher and Youkilis. According to MLBTR, relinking various reports:

(1) They've essentially offered their "Shane Victorino money" to Swisher - 4 years, $48-50M, but it's possible the market has him more in the 4/60 range. It's unclear what other teams are interested.
(2) Youkilis is deciding between 2/18 from the Indians and 1/12 from the Yankees.

Both offers seem entirely reasonable for above-average, early 30s FAs in the current market. For one thing, I like Swisher a lot more than Victorino at that tier. It's unclear whether the offers are mutually exclusive, but the Youk offer seems short enough that it wouldn't preclude doing both.

Not to mention you could flip them when the season spirals out of control. Any season during the contract. All of them have 'spiraling' potential.

[skatingtripods]

So the Tribe is still out there on Swisher and Youkilis. According to MLBTR, relinking various reports:

(1) They've essentially offered their "Shane Victorino money" to Swisher - 4 years, $48-50M, but it's possible the market has him more in the 4/60 range. It's unclear what other teams are interested.
(2) Youkilis is deciding between 2/18 from the Indians and 1/12 from the Yankees.

Both offers seem entirely reasonable for above-average, early 30s FAs in the current market. For one thing, I like Swisher a lot more than Victorino at that tier. It's unclear whether the offers are mutually exclusive, but the Youk offer seems short enough that it wouldn't preclude doing both.

I like both offers and I think they're very close to market value. I like the Swisher one a little bit more, but Youkilis playing 1B full-time will increase his value and, hopefully, allow him to get above 600 PAs for the first time since 2009.

I don't think Swisher's getting 4/60 from anybody. People are scared of Michael Bourn because he wants Upton money or better.

What I like the most about the offer to Swisher is his versatility. Switch hitter, can play 1B/LF/RF and be above average at all three positions. Can hit anywhere from second through seventh. It's a maximum value play from the Indians.

Still makes me wonder what our offseason plan actually is. I don't envision a full-out spending spree, but it's hard to trade off MLB pieces if you're adding to the roster with guys in their 30s. Cabrera for pitching is fine, because you've got Aviles who can be at least MLB average offensively and average to slightly above average defensively, but I don't think we'll see them move Choo, Masterson, Perez, Smith, or anybody like that.

The way I see it is that they have seven holes. 1B, LF, DH, RH Utility IF who can play 3B (can be Aviles if AC not traded) and then they need two or three starters. They could get away with two starters if they believe McAllister can be above replacement level. Masterson and Jimenez are locks. Carrasco will probably start the year in AAA. Not sure how highly they view Kluber. I'd like a guy like Shaun Marcum a lot. Check in on guys like Jair Jurrjens, Joe Saunders, and Brandon McCarthy. Then, give a minor league deal/non-roster invite to guys like Dallas Braden and Carlos Zambrano. Low-risk, medium reward. Let NRIs and minor league deals battle for the fifth and sixth spot.

It's not a good crop of pitchers, but if you're building the lineup, you also have to build the starting rotation.

I wonder if there's a chance that the Dolans will spend against the 250M they're reportedly getting in the STO sale to Fox Sports.

Of course, the plan may be to take our swings at guys like Victorino, Swisher, Youkilis, etc., and if we miss, then we sell. Which I'm fine with.

[Jumbo]

[quote="skatingtripods]
Still makes me wonder what our offseason plan actually is. I don't envision a full-out spending spree, but it's hard to trade off MLB pieces if you're adding to the roster with guys in their 30s.[/quote]

I think our plan is quite simply "rebuild without abject suck." (As opposed to a 2001-era "rebuild and compete.") If a veteran wouldn't block a high-minors prospect (and neither Swisher nor Youk would) then it's reasonable to try to shoot for 75 wins (if they don't trade anybody) or 65 (if they do). It wouldn't be an "optimal" use of money, in the sense that money is best used only if it's moving you up into position to compete for a playoff spot, but it might have psychological value to not stare at fourth 90+ loss season in five years.

It's also fair to say that not all of the MLB pieces are equal. If you took the most optimistic view, that tne Indians could take another year off and potentially compete in 2014, then Cabrera and Masterson could be valuable parts of that effort. In contrast Choo is gone after this season (save a Sizemore-injury and implosion leading to a one year make-good contract), Ubaldo is an enigma, and Perez is a headache. Trading those last three for whatever, and keeping Cabrera and Masterson around for potential future competitiveness, is a reasonable strategy...and Cabrera would still have some trade value (if not as much as he does now).

The way I see it is that they have seven holes. 1B, LF, DH, RH Utility IF who can play 3B (can be Aviles if AC not traded) and then they need two or three starters.

The pitching staff has too many moving parts, so focus on the offense for now. To take a baseline scenario, suppose they kept everyone and actually signed Swisher/Youk.

1B: Youk
2B: Kipnis
SS: Cabrera
3B: Chiz/RH platoon
OF: Swisher/Brantley/Choo
C: Santana
DH: ????

The offseason is a dangerous time, but that might actually look like a credible offense.

[BruceK]

Current rumor is that Mark Reynolds is close to signing.
@JonHeymanCBS: Mark Reynolds close to signing with #indians

[noles1]

Obviously out on Youk and he likely put in a call with the increased teams jumping in on the bidding.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

Well Royals just got Shields

[skatingtripods]

Well Royals just got Shields

Shields deal is age-old MLB question. Take the proven thing or the hot shot, consensus top 10, prospect. I don't have a definitive answer. I know I don't like the idea of giving up Myers when signing Dempster + Sanchez just costs money and you retain a kid who is ticketed for stardom. But, I don't like the idea of hoping prospects pan out. In the Royals' case, look at Eric Hosmer (who was terrible last year) and Mike Moustakas (sub-.300 OBP). Hell, look at Matt LaPorta.

Nobody's talking about Odorizzi and Montgomery, who are two pretty decent prospects in their own right. Odorizzi should be a #3-4 fixture in the rotation for a while once he's developed and Montgomery still has a lot of upside. Wade Davis is serviceable, but I'd be worried about him in KC with huge gaps and a lot of carry to the ball in the summertime.

A really interesting trade. All I know is that the Royals have a lot of getting better to do. Shields won't cut it. They need to improve the entire starting rotation and need some position player upgrades. It's a start, but it's a start with a very short window of opportunity with Shields. They could also re-sign Shields, which would make the deal more valuable for them, but I don't know how eager they'll be to re-sign a 34-year-old starter to a 3-4 year deal.

[peeker643]

I truly believe the Royals see Moustakas, Hosmer, Escobar, Butler and Gordon as ready to make a quantam leap offensively. Salvador Perez is intriguing and even Franceour is just 28.

I honestly expect them to make that offensive leap this season.

Are Shields, Santana, Guthrie, et al enough? I don't know. Shields and Santana (depending which Santana you get) would be an upgrade over what they had 1-2 last season and it's possible they're not done yet too.

I do know I'd take the Royals org across the board over the Indians org without a second thought. They definitely are taking a HUGE risk, but you have to at some point if you have zero pitching. Like you said, age-old issue. But prospects are valuable either by maturing and developing or being dealt for proven MLB caliber players. And if winning at the MLB level is the goal then you need more of the latter and to make really good use of the former. We'll find out in a few years.

[motherscratcher]

Wow, is that true? Frenchy is only 28? Seems like he's been around forever.

I don't think the idea of the Royals taking their shot right now is a bad decision. At some point you have to put in your chips and see what happens. That was what was so infuriating about the Tribe's last offseason after the Ubaldo chips made it look like the window was open RIGHT NOW. And then...nothing.

In hindsight we all know that it probably wouldn't have made a difference. There was no amount of FAs that the Tribe could have added last year that would have gotten it done. But i would have respected them a little bit more in the morning if they'd at least taken a shot.

And The Royals are, so I respect that. But i think this trade is a mistake. It will be evaluated in hindsight liek every other transaction is, but I don[t think the eventual result is the problem. I tend to agree with Tripods that this won't be enough for them. Time will tell and that's why they play the games.

I think it's a mistake because I think the value of Myers (and the others) is greater than the return they got. It's not that I'm opposed to trading prospects. I aplauded the Ubaldo trade at the time (like an idiot). But If the best you can get for the best prospect in baseball and his friends is James Shields, then I think you have to pass and hold out for more. And if that trade isn't out there so be it.

Like Tripods said, there were/are FA options available at an arguable similar cost/ability to Shields.

There's a reason that the Rays have consistently been successful and THE model small market franchise for over half a decade now. The sell high always. They accumulate talent when it makes sense. They play in the East with the Yankees, Red Sox, an Orioles team that made the playoffs last season, and a completely re-tooled Blue Jays team. They couldn't use James Shields? Of course they could. But they know an unbelievable deal when they see it. And they made it. And that's why everyone wants to be them.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

My only thing is they blew their most valuable commodity on Shields. I applaud them for recognizing their weakness and trying to create a rotation that can at least partially back what IMO is going to be one hell of an offense for 3-4 years, but having to cash in your best chip a on a very good pitcher and not a true ace has got to be frustrating......... at least to their fans.

[skatingtripods]

Excellent post by Dave Cameron of Fangraphs on the Shields trade: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... certainty/

[Dnthateonthepronk]

aJust got up and saw this

A three-team deal with the Rangers, Diamondbacks and Indians was "very close" to happening at the Winter Meetings. The foundation of the deal was Upton to Texas, Cabrera to Arizona, and Mike Olt and one of Trevor Bauer or Patrick Corbin to Cleveland. Presumably, other names were involved
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#x5puGolOBLoR61E0.99

fromhttp://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Gotta say at its base if its true, that seems like a very fair deal from all 3 sides. I would imagine this has a pretty good shot at getting done, especially with the Rangers losing out on shields and Grienke, they might just decided to go 95 Indians on everybody and get both Upton and Hamilton and really try to push a deal through. Heck if ariznoa is adament about recieving Profar or Andrus, Asdrubal might go to Texas.

[pup]

It makes sense for Arizona to trade Justin Upton, Trevor Bauer and Patrick Corbin for Asdrubal Cabrera? Really?

There better be a few more names going to Arizona for that to have any shot. Which is probably where it all fell through.

[skatingtripods]

It makes sense for Arizona to trade Justin Upton, Trevor Bauer and Patrick Corbin for Asdrubal Cabrera? Really?

There better be a few more names going to Arizona for that to have any shot. Which is probably where it all fell through.

I'm guessing Profar's name was in the deal and that's why it fell apart.

I'd take Patrick Corbin, but I'd need a lot more with it because he's not likely to be a Trevor Bauer or Tyler Skaggs. He should be a quality MOR starter, but Skaggs is probably a #2 and Bauer could be a solid #1 or a very good #2.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

It makes sense for Arizona to trade Justin Upton, Trevor Bauer and Patrick Corbin for Asdrubal Cabrera? Really?

There better be a few more names going to Arizona for that to have any shot. Which is probably where it all fell through.

1. I said AT ITS BASE, meaning as a starting point before other pieces are added it seems like a fair starting point. Of course other pieces need to be added.

2. The report says Olt and then Bauer OR Corbin not both.


I also think some of the sticking points of this deal might get cleared up soon. With Both Grienke and Shields of the market, Texas might be even more motivated to get a deal done.

[Adverb Harry]

I've said it before...I would LOVE to have Olt. If we got him and Bauer this offseason, I'd consider it a successful retooling/whatever we're calling it.

[pup]

It makes sense for Arizona to trade Justin Upton, Trevor Bauer and Patrick Corbin for Asdrubal Cabrera? Really?

There better be a few more names going to Arizona for that to have any shot. Which is probably where it all fell through.

1. I said AT ITS BASE, meaning as a starting point before other pieces are added it seems like a fair starting point. Of course other pieces need to be added.

2. The report says Olt and then Bauer OR Corbin not both.


I also think some of the sticking points of this deal might get cleared up soon. With Both Grienke and Shields of the market, Texas might be even more motivated to get a deal done.

I apologize. I did misread the quote.

[WiscTribeFan]

Just saw this: If they get Stubbs, imagine the strikeout totals with him and Reynolds in the same lineup.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/r ... trade.html

The Reds and Indians are deep in talks that would send Shin-Soo Choo to Cincinnati, according to Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com. The Indians would receive center fielder Drew Stubbs and shortstop Didi Gregorius in return while the Reds are expected to receive another player in the deal.

The Reds would use Choo in center field and as their leadoff man. Choo hasn't seen time in centerfield for the Indians since 2009 and has played just ten MLB games at the position in total. The Reds are banking on the 30-year-old's offensive production being able to make up for whatever they might lose defensively. The veteran owns a .289/.381/.465 slash line across eight major league seasons.

[British_Pharaoh]

Just saw this: If they get Stubbs, imagine the strikeout totals with him and Reynolds in the same lineup.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/r ... trade.html

The Reds and Indians are deep in talks that would send Shin-Soo Choo to Cincinnati, according to Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com. The Indians would receive center fielder Drew Stubbs and shortstop Didi Gregorius in return while the Reds are expected to receive another player in the deal.

The Reds would use Choo in center field and as their leadoff man. Choo hasn't seen time in centerfield for the Indians since 2009 and has played just ten MLB games at the position in total. The Reds are banking on the 30-year-old's offensive production being able to make up for whatever they might lose defensively. The veteran owns a .289/.381/.465 slash line across eight major league seasons.

Posted a new thread on this (apologies, I haven't been on the forum for time)

I say no to that awful trade proposal

[British_Pharaoh]

Youk has signed with the Yankees so at least we have dodged that bullet, although I believe we took our offer off the table some time ago.

[British_Pharaoh]

Olney has us still shopping Asdrubal Cabrera, Justin Masterson and Vinnie Pestano but that there is nothing going on regarding Perez

per Twitter

[dazindiansfanuk]

Olney has us still shopping Asdrubal Cabrera, Justin Masterson and Vinnie Pestano but that there is nothing going on regarding Perez

per Twitter

To be clear, he didn't say "shopping".

His actual tweet was

@Buster_ESPN
As Cleveland remakes its young starting pitching, it still has Asdrubal, Masterson, Vinnie Pestano to deal. Not much action on Chris Perez.

Still having some bullets to fire is different from looking for ways to fire them.

I'd be shocked if they "shopped" Pestano at this stage - someone's gonna need to come knocking with a knockout deal for that trade to happen.

[skatingtripods]

At this point, we need to go balls out on Swisher and Marcum. Then we can start addressing our needs via trade. See what we get in FA without having to give up anybody else and then trade if necessary.

[skatingtripods]

Giants sign Andres Torres, likely taking them out of Swisher derby. Likely down to us, the Mariners and, possibly, the Phillies.

Dempster about to set the market for non-Greinke SP by going to Boston. I'd guess in the 3/33-36 range. Means Marcum can probably be had for 2/22 or so.

[WiscTribeFan]

Giants sign Andres Torres, likely taking them out of Swisher derby. Likely down to us, the Mariners and, possibly, the Phillies.

Dempster about to set the market for non-Greinke SP by going to Boston. I'd guess in the 3/33-36 range. Means Marcum can probably be had for 2/22 or so.

It has been reported that Dempster initially turned down 2-24 from the Red Sox. He wants that 3rd year. 3-36 sounds about right.

I still think Swisher is playing the Tribe as a chip to get a better offer after Hamilton makes up his mind. I would be stunned if he came here once Hamilton signs.

[skatingtripods]

I still think Swisher is playing the Tribe as a chip to get a better offer after Hamilton makes up his mind. I would be stunned if he came here once Hamilton signs.

Yeah, I'm thinking that way, too. I think he really doesn't want to play here, which is sad. Columbus kid, went to OSU, has the starting RF gig locked down.

Over the last two seasons combined, he's almost one win below Hamilton above replacement player, so it's within reason for him to wait and see what Josh gets. He's also significantly less injury prone and more versatile.

Back in August, Dave Cameron said Swisher would be worth around 5/90. Now, his best offer is our 4/48 (maybe up to 52).

Problem for him is that I don't think he's going to get anywhere near what he wants. Our hope is that he has to settle for our offer. Heyman says Seattle remains iffy on Swisher, though they still feel they have a shot at Hamilton. I think Hamilton's signed, sealed, and delivered to Texas, given who they have lost out on.

I don't know what direction we go if Swisher doesn't come here. A Brantley-Stubbs-Ross/Sweeney outfield is pretty bad. Do we make a play for Bourn and hope for the best?

[Adverb Harry]

I still think Swisher is playing the Tribe as a chip to get a better offer after Hamilton makes up his mind. I would be stunned if he came here once Hamilton signs.

Yeah, I'm thinking that way, too. I think he really doesn't want to play here, which is sad. Columbus kid, went to OSU, has the starting RF gig locked down.

Over the last two seasons combined, he's almost one win below Hamilton above replacement player, so it's within reason for him to wait and see what Josh gets. He's also significantly less injury prone and more versatile.

Back in August, Dave Cameron said Swisher would be worth around 5/90. Now, his best offer is our 4/48 (maybe up to 52).

Problem for him is that I don't think he's going to get anywhere near what he wants. Our hope is that he has to settle for our offer. Heyman says Seattle remains iffy on Swisher, though they still feel they have a shot at Hamilton. I think Hamilton's signed, sealed, and delivered to Texas, given who they have lost out on.

I don't know what direction we go if Swisher doesn't come here. A Brantley-Stubbs-Ross/Sweeney outfield is pretty bad. Do we make a play for Bourn and hope for the best?

I've been wondering about this, too. I'd really like to have Swisher, but there's a point where we'd be seriously overpaying for him to get him to agree to come here, and I don't want it to go that far. What about the trade route? Any good young outfielders that could be had? We've still got Cabrera as a trading chip. If Choo plus extras was able to bring in Bauer, then there should be an even better return on Cabrera. Couldn't we get a good young outfielder and pitching prospect for him? If do-able, I think I'd prefer that route.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

I really think Swisher spent so much time thinking and got his hopes up about some of the prestigous big market teams chasing him and the money, that now that that is not whats happening, its gotta be a letdown or at least a shock. Plus isnt he married to an actress Ims ure he would want to be closer to hollywood where she works. That is really why I think he will end up with the Mariners as long as the money is relatively similar.

[skatingtripods]

I've been wondering about this, too. I'd really like to have Swisher, but there's a point where we'd be seriously overpaying for him to get him to agree to come here, and I don't want it to go that far. What about the trade route? Any good young outfielders that could be had? We've still got Cabrera as a trading chip.

I think teams will move pitchers for shortstops controlled for two years, but probably not quality, young corner OF, especially seeing that guys like BJ Upton are getting market value contracts of 15M per. Obviously, pitchers get big FA deals too, but prospect pitchers are a little different than prospect position players. Also, teams rarely have a surplus of OF talent. We got Bauer because of Arizona's surplus of very good, young arms.

I don't think Bourn's the guy we want, not after losing 15-18 HR, a .370+ OBP, and a middle of the order bat in Choo. Swisher is almost a four win player. Scott Hairston hit 20 HR and slugged .504, which was enough to make up for his .299 OBP, but I don't think he's on our radar.

By default, we probably go to Cody Ross, who mauls lefties with a .928 OPS (1.010 in 132 AB last year). Maybe 2/12 gets him? Made 3M last year and hit 22 HR. Not a fielding liability, though not a star either.

Can't see us trying to trade for Michael Morse (free agent after next season) or somebody like Alfonso Soriano. We'd maybe go back to Arizona and try for Kubel, possibly talk to Colorado about Cuddyer. Corey Hart from Milwaukee might be an option, but he's also a free agent after next season.

We've had to put all of our eggs in the Swisher basket because there's not much out there. If we miss him, we may have to get real creative or hope Ross doesn't think his value is really inflated.

[dazindiansfanuk]

Are we jumping the gun in proclaiming Swisher doesn't want to play in Cleveland?

I get why people might make that assumption just going by recent history but, isn't it at least feasible that Swisher's agent is the driving force here and, knowing that Hamilton will set the OF market, it would make sense for him to wait until the dominos fall to guarantee the best deal possible - be that in Cleveland or anywhere else?!

[skatingtripods]

Are we jumping the gun in proclaiming Swisher doesn't want to play in Cleveland?

Maybe, and yes, Hamilton is clearly a major factor. Asst GM Mike Chernoff said as much yesterday on All Bets Are Off.

I don't think it's unreasonable to discuss other possibilities and the fact that Cleveland is not a desirable destination for free agents. Swisher's wife is also expecting a kid, so we'll see if that has any bearing on where he ends up.

Nothing wrong with discussing contingency plans, especially since we've had an offer out to Swisher for quite some time and it came out today that 3-4 other teams are bidding for his services.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

How does a Swisher signing fit in to a rebuild? Solid player, great guy, would be an instant fan favorite, but at a time where we're trying to move anything that's not nailed down, why would we want a relatively expensive vet? We're not in win-now mode.

[peeker643]

How does a Swisher signing fit in to a rebuild? Solid player, great guy, would be an instant fan favorite, but at a time where we're trying to move anything that's not nailed down, why would we want a relatively expensive vet? We're not in win-now mode.

Precisely. I hope they don't sign him unless it's with dealing him at this or the next deadline for more young, high-upside prospects in mind.

I know what time it is and I know we're far enough away from last season and close enough to this next one that hopes turn to fancy and spring eternal.

But...

Get the young guys. Follow the trail of young, elite pitching. If you stockpile that you can get absolutely anything else you need. And I'd be all for turning AsCab and Perez into that.