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Holmgren gone

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Holmgren gone

Unread postby jfiling » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:36 pm

Per 92.3 FM, link coming as soon as I find one. Right now, credit goes to Daryl Ruiter.

Edit: BTW, this means he's immediately out of here.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby jfiling » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:02 pm

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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby municipalmutt » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:51 pm

So he will be spending pretty much the same amount of time in Berea now?
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby justmebd » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:08 pm

municipalmutt wrote:So he will be spending pretty much the same amount of time in Berea now?

I filed this story under "I thought this happened weeks ago."

Why he still was allowed to remain in the building these last few weeks is a mystery.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:49 pm

I have to imagine that this is the fallout from last week, when he publically courted the Dallas job and then tried to backtrack.

....Or just the fallout from 10+ weeks of him doing absolutely nothing since the writing was went on the wall.

Either way, its good for the team, and we wont know the jist of it for a few years, likely.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby LarsHancock » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:17 pm

Good, now can we fire our feckless coach without his protector?
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:40 pm

Be appropriate if it received no coverage & no one showed.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:10 pm

LarsHancock wrote:Good, now can we fire our feckless coach without his protector?


Bet Haslem thinks twice before making another promise about keeping people.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:51 pm

And I already miss him

Baby Jesus in a manger I never really believed things could get worse.

But they just may......

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=9031

That man that gave the gift of JaMarcus Russell to NFL fans everywhere might just be the next GM of your Cleveland Browns
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:06 pm

mattvan1 wrote:And I already miss him

Baby Jesus in a manger I never really believed things could get worse.

But they just may......

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=9031

That man that gave the gift of JaMarcus Russell to NFL fans everywhere might just be the next GM of your Cleveland Browns


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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby StewieG » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:16 pm

We're dumping Heckert for Lombardi? We deserve to suck.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:22 pm

Couple of facts before folks get way too far along the rumor mill...

1) Tony Grossi and local reporters have a massive bias against Lombardi due to the Belicheck-era. That said, take everything with a grain of salt. Also, they have been out in front of this for quite some time (Grossi speculated as early as when Banner was rumored to be on-board) because they know it effective cuts off any inroads they have built in the organization. It would lead to massive house-cleaning. Not to mention, I would wager the dislike for one and other is mutual.

2) Grossi claiming he "bounced around mid level" roles is just false. He worked for STL as a consultant then was brought over to Philly as pro personnel director and cap guru.

3) One year later was hired as the senior personnel Exec for the Raiders where he worked for ~7 seasons, including Grudens last team and the Super Bowl team that lost to the Bucs.

4) Lombardi was fired a week after the Russell pick and had been on the way out during the 2006 season due to near publi spat with Art Shell, who's hiring he objected to.

5) The Callahan to Art Shell coaching move was effectively his demise as he disagreed with Al Davis's decision there.

6) Everything with him has been incredibly public because of how he worked behind the scenes and how the Raiders work post-termination of damn near anyone.

Basically, Grossi/Brinda and the old media Guard is still holding a grudge of continued slights from way back and behind the scene stuff that still exists today. (notice which shows he's called into and which he hasn't)

Lombardi certainly shoulders some significant blame and cause for concern (very poor draft record) it's just some of this crap is just flatly inaccurate. (ie Grossi's article)

All that said, I do not believe Lombardi is a serious candidate, nor do I want him to be brought into this situation. The fit isn't there even if he is looked at as a package with Josh McDaniels.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:41 pm

I haven't read Grossi's article. I base my lack of enthusiasm on his draft record and the very hit or miss nature of his personnel opinions on NFLN. From the sounds of it, Grossi is on a witch hunt against the guy which has reached unprofessional levels.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:56 pm

noles1 wrote:Couple of facts before folks get way too far along the rumor mill...

1) Tony Grossi and local reporters have a massive bias against Lombardi due to the Belicheck-era. That said, take everything with a grain of salt. Also, they have been out in front of this for quite some time (Grossi speculated as early as when Banner was rumored to be on-board) because they know it effective cuts off any inroads they have built in the organization. It would lead to massive house-cleaning. Not to mention, I would wager the dislike for one and other is mutual.

2) Grossi claiming he "bounced around mid level" roles is just false. He worked for STL as a consultant then was brought over to Philly as pro personnel director and cap guru.

3) One year later was hired as the senior personnel Exec for the Raiders where he worked for ~7 seasons, including Grudens last team and the Super Bowl team that lost to the Bucs.

4) Lombardi was fired a week after the Russell pick and had been on the way out during the 2006 season due to near publi spat with Art Shell, who's hiring he objected to.

5) The Callahan to Art Shell coaching move was effectively his demise as he disagreed with Al Davis's decision there.

6) Everything with him has been incredibly public because of how he worked behind the scenes and how the Raiders work post-termination of damn near anyone.

Basically, Grossi/Brinda and the old media Guard is still holding a grudge of continued slights from way back and behind the scene stuff that still exists today. (notice which shows he's called into and which he hasn't)

Lombardi certainly shoulders some significant blame and cause for concern (very poor draft record) it's just some of this crap is just flatly inaccurate. (ie Grossi's article)

All that said, I do not believe Lombardi is a serious candidate, nor do I want him to be brought into this situation. The fit isn't there even if he is looked at as a package with Josh McDaniels.


Too much smoke to be considered "just a rumor". Doesn't mean it will happen, but it's getting enough run to be discussed here. Grossi's apparent bias aside, Lombardi has been a train wreck wherever he has worked.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:13 pm

Trainwreck is what I would classify we have seen all but 2 of the 12 seasons we've been back.

I would classify Lombardi's term as more like a 3 car pile up.

That said, maybe there is something to it but I just don't see it with the model they want where a coach is very going to be very close on personnel decisions. Would feel like too many (big egos) cooks int he kitchen.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:22 pm

Hikohadon wrote:I haven't read Grossi's article. I base my lack of enthusiasm on his draft record and the very hit or miss nature of his personnel opinions on NFLN. From the sounds of it, Grossi is on a witch hunt against the guy which has reached unprofessional levels.


Agree. grossi's article is a bit over the top.

And I understand that he was an abject failure in his first stint in Cleveland. But that was 20 years ago. Is it unreasonable to assume he might ave learned a thing or 2 in the last few decades?

This is in no way an endorsement.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:31 pm

motherscratcher wrote:And I understand that he was an abject failure in his first stint in Cleveland. But that was 20 years ago. Is it unreasonable to assume he might have learned a thing or 2 in the last few decades?


I would say that in general the longer you are away from the game, the worse it is. I know he's been doing his personnel opinion job on NFLN and running a website, but no way is that gig as intense as NFL GM.

So I think it is unreasonable to assume that he'd be any better now than he was back then.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby rk » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:58 am

I am less concerned with his behind the door experience as GM/Pro Personel and more concerned with how dumb he sounds in podcasts/radio interviews.

He's a consumate suck up yes man in the vein of Vinny Cerrato. There's a reason why he's willing to take jobs working with guys like Al Davis when other people were unwilling.

I'm not sweating the rumors right now because Lombardi knows the easiest way to get back into the public eye is to push out rumors that the Browns are interested in him and he's always been a better self-promoter than a personell guy.

But if they do hire him it's probably the end of the open door, free food, free booze welcome for Haslem. Even if they can get someone like Brian Kelly or Nick Saban to come along for the ride.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:38 am

Since they have publicly said that they're biased towards giving the coach final say on the 53 man, it's unlikely they'll bring in a big name GM, too. More likely that we get someone who was a pro player director or lead scout, and a veteran coach. Could just as easily be we get an out-of-nowhere guy. (given Banners record with Reid)

Either way, would be remarkable if the GM next year had any kind of real power. I imagine Heckert leaves because he stands to LOSE power, and at this point in his career, he's not going to be willing to do that. (He came here to gain responsibility, not lose it)
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:46 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:Since they have publicly said that they're biased towards giving the coach final say on the 53 man, it's unlikely they'll bring in a big name GM, too. More likely that we get someone who was a pro player director or lead scout, and a veteran coach. Could just as easily be we get an out-of-nowhere guy. (given Banners record with Reid)

Either way, would be remarkable if the GM next year had any kind of real power. I imagine Heckert leaves because he stands to LOSE power, and at this point in his career, he's not going to be willing to do that. (He came here to gain responsibility, not lose it)


Which is why Lombardi would be attractive to them, since he was fine with not having any real power in Oakland.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:44 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
Gradysmanldy wrote:Since they have publicly said that they're biased towards giving the coach final say on the 53 man, it's unlikely they'll bring in a big name GM, too. More likely that we get someone who was a pro player director or lead scout, and a veteran coach. Could just as easily be we get an out-of-nowhere guy. (given Banners record with Reid)

Either way, would be remarkable if the GM next year had any kind of real power. I imagine Heckert leaves because he stands to LOSE power, and at this point in his career, he's not going to be willing to do that. (He came here to gain responsibility, not lose it)


Which is why Lombardi would be attractive to them, since he was fine with not having any real power in Oakland.


So essentially he becomes a glorified lead scout, with the GM title. You're giving up on the idea of having a coach/GM with a unified vision in exchange for a HMIC, his lackey, and Banner with final say. Where have we seen this before.....

<insert picture of mankok>

Still seems backwards. You've got 1 of the 3 things you need in place already (GM)....don't reinvent the wheel, get one of the other peices and reevaluate. (HC, and let him figure out the QB)

Infuriating.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:30 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
Gradysmanldy wrote:Since they have publicly said that they're biased towards giving the coach final say on the 53 man, it's unlikely they'll bring in a big name GM, too. More likely that we get someone who was a pro player director or lead scout, and a veteran coach. Could just as easily be we get an out-of-nowhere guy. (given Banners record with Reid)

Either way, would be remarkable if the GM next year had any kind of real power. I imagine Heckert leaves because he stands to LOSE power, and at this point in his career, he's not going to be willing to do that. (He came here to gain responsibility, not lose it)


Which is why Lombardi would be attractive to them, since he was fine with not having any real power in Oakland.


So essentially he becomes a glorified lead scout, with the GM title. You're giving up on the idea of having a coach/GM with a unified vision in exchange for a HMIC, his lackey, and Banner with final say. Where have we seen this before.....

<insert picture of mankok>

Still seems backwards. You've got 1 of the 3 things you need in place already (GM)....don't reinvent the wheel, get one of the other peices and reevaluate. (HC, and let him figure out the QB)

Infuriating.


Assuming this is all true, it could also indicate that they already have a HC candidate in mind who wants more of a lackey than a true GM.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby jerryroche » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:34 pm

Banner scares me. IMHO, Heckert has proven himself over the past three years, and he deserves total power over the roster (with input from the head coach), not some new guy who's been a $$$ guy in the past. Sounds to me like Banner wants it all, and Haslam is deferring to him. So once again, the Browns appear to be going the ego route in the FO. They've been there before, and it hasn't worked.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:53 pm

I like Heckert fine, but if they let him go for whatever reason, it's not the end of the world. I'm not going on hunger strike for the guy.

But if they replace him it should be to replace him with a guy who they feel is a BETTER talent evaluator than he is. And if they feel that Lombardi is BETTER than Heckert, then I weep for the future.

And if they're bringing a guy like Lombardi in for reasons other than they feel he is a BETTER personnel guy, then the future is downright fucked.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:59 pm

The entire league is nothing more than an incestuous good ol boys club where loyal insiders, regardless of skills or acumen, and moved around the board like chess pieces while outsiders need not apply.

"Al, we know you were complicit in fucking over an entire city, but we'll give ya another shot - and we have just the right guys to help you run things. You know Carmen Policy, don't you?"

"Randy, we know you've been looking to dump the team since your dad passed, and we've found the perfect buyer"

"Jimmy, we know you've been patiently waiting for a team and here's one right in your backyard. Motivated seller too. We'll rubber stamp the approval. And, we've got the perfect fella to run it for you. Ever heard of Joe Banner? He's your guy."
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:08 pm

The best part of ^ is the fact that the NFL hand delivered Jammies Holmgren in the exact same fashion they delivered Banner to Redneck Truckstop King.

I laugh regularly when I remember how Walrus was sent here, by the league, to return the team to relevence.

After (I'm sure) the league hand delivered Mangini to Jammies as well.

The league spent plenty of time throwing seasoned managers at Jammies to compensate for his lack of interest, now they just replaced their final shot with another seasoned prick to chair the team for the Hick.

And let's be real, a college coach (Saban style) paired with Lombardi would be FAR more Butch than Mangini.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:13 pm

And RK, I know you meant Chip Kelley, not Brian Kelley.... or at least I hope (and he is easily going to be the most attainable coach).
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby LarsHancock » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:31 pm

Do you ever get the feeling beneath the fog of war of hope from the regime change that there's an infinite field of sadness that is forever our destiny?
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:33 pm

LarsHancock wrote:Do you ever get the feeling beneath the fog of war of hope from the regime change that there's an infinite field of sadness that is forever our destiny?


Yes.

The Law of Averages says otherwise, but I think that law has been suspended in NEO.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:43 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
LarsHancock wrote:Do you ever get the feeling beneath the fog of war of hope from the regime change that there's an infinite field of sadness that is forever our destiny?


Yes.

The Law of Averages says otherwise, but I think that law has been suspended in NEO.


I'm not sure it's a "law" of averages so much as a "suggestion" of averages. Either that or NEO is set up for a century of sports dominance from the year 2248 through the 24th century.

That will be glorious.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:04 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
LarsHancock wrote:Do you ever get the feeling beneath the fog of war of hope from the regime change that there's an infinite field of sadness that is forever our destiny?


Yes.

The Law of Averages says otherwise, but I think that law has been suspended in NEO.


I'm not sure it's a "law" of averages so much as a "suggestion" of averages. Either that or NEO is set up for a century of sports dominance from the year 2248 through the 24th century.

That will be glorious.


My frozen head will love that.
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Re: Holmgren gone

Unread postby rk » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:09 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:And RK, I know you meant Chip Kelley, not Brian Kelley.... or at least I hope (and he is easily going to be the most attainable coach).


Nope. I meant Brian Kelly.

Chip is certainly the more likely to go to the NFL but supposedly there is a fair amount of interest in Brian in the NFL. Potentially more than Chip - particularly if he lands the title. Fan interest in Chip Kelly has gone done since they were removed from the title picture. I have no idea about NFL interest in him (I would assume it's high) but I am reading that he isn't in the mix for the Browns.

In either case if the Browns were looking at making people happy with a college coach and overlooking a lackey for a GM their best bet would be to get the winner of the BCS title game. Saban allegedly has a relationship with Lombardi so that's much more likely but I have absolutely no idea why Saban would ever want to leave Alabama. The money isn't going to be very different and he's a God in Alabama - even if the governor was a little critical of his playcalling.

Same with Brian Kelly. If he wins (or hell even if he doesn't) the idea that he'd leave a place which has a habit of raising large statues of their winning coaches to go to the NFL would seem a little ludicrous.

But what do I know.
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