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Um, AP National Title?

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Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby pup » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:28 am

Let's just say USC beats Notre Dame.

And at the end of it all, there is only 1 undefeated team in the country. Who happens to be The Ohio State University. With all of their warts. And the shittiness of the B1G taken into account. I ask, does the AP finally deliver that shot to the BCS and vote tOSU #1?

And if they do...does it mean anything?

And if they don't...would they if USC was in the same spot?
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:17 am

pup wrote:Let's just say USC beats Notre Dame.

And at the end of it all, there is only 1 undefeated team in the country. Who happens to be The Ohio State University. With all of their warts. And the shittiness of the B1G taken into account. I ask, does the AP finally deliver that shot to the BCS and vote tOSU #1?

And if they do...does it mean anything?

And if they don't...would they if USC was in the same spot?


I think this would be a real interesting question if in anyone's mind, besides perhaps the biggest of OSU honks, thought that OSU was truly number one. Or even all that close.

I mean your big "tests" are Brett Bielama with a third stinger and Matt McGloin?

And I understand you can only play what's in front of you, just that some OSU of team's past woulda rolled this schedule - THAT would be the team likely to get jobbed over the nonsense.

I think in this scenario you'd have to be really GOOD to get yourself into the picture. And I'm not sure the Big Ten's cuurent sutation affords you the ability to look that way in anyone's eyes.

Lastly, speaking of USC, wow, Lane Kiffin belongs on the Browns staff. He needs to shake his Dad giving him the 1980 mindset, cause they run an old offense, but worse, have zero idea how to stop a modern offense. All that talent...
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby furls » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:34 am

No AP Title for tOSU. Just not going to happen regardless of what happens to finish this season.

I disagree about the B1G being shitty stopping them. What is stopping them is OSU playing shitty. If they were blowing out these shitty B1G teams (50-14 or something like that) week in week out, they would have the AP Title sitting in the WHAC at 4PM next week and Braxton Miller would be holding a bronze statue in Dec. All the pundits would be saying, "What if tOSU was eligible?", but inspite of all the insanity right now, tOSU doesn't even get mentioned because they are not playing that well.

Gotta say, the Offense in the bigger games really blows. PSU, MSU and now Wisco. Miller had a shit ton of time, the kind of time where great QBs throw WRs open. Kid has got to stop taking STUPID sacks too. Not every play can be a positive one. When he learns that he will immediately make this O better.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby danwismar » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:00 pm

Point is, in the BCS era, the AP "national title" would elicit one big national yawn. It's completely meaningless.

Furls and LP are both right though. No one is seriously considering the Buckeyes the best team in the country, because it's obvious that they're not.

Off topic...

I gotta say that it really looked like something was wrong with Braxton yesterday....something upstairs. He refused to pull the trigger in the passing game (I know the receivers weren't exactly running wide open, but c'mon) and he was really tentative and making tons of bad decisions trying to scramble...taking losses when he could have easily thrown the ball away...just looked like he wasn't right mentally. Also, the decisiveness and quickness physically just didn't seem to be there. I expected a refreshed and rested Braxton, and instead it looked like he regressed with the off-week. Credit the Wisky defense and all that, but he looked out of it.

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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby furls » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:50 pm

Maybe he was "overcoached?" Instead of reading the field and taking what was there he was probably trying to execute the mandates from two weeks of practice. THe problem with watching the game on TV is that you cannot see what is going on downfield. I will say that if tOSU's receivers couldn't get open against Wisconsin in the time that Miller had and created they should all be cut. Miller had the time to throw, the lanes to throw and even created time. I have no idea what was going on down field, but Miller wouldn't throw the ball so either the receivers weren't getting open, Miller wasn't seeing them get open or Miller was too afraid to try to throw them open.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:59 pm

lol.

No AP title.

Braxton's problems yesterday were because of him being indecisive. WRs were not getting open and he wasn't taking off in those situations. Especially in the 2nd half when Wisco dropped the spy. He was trying to stretch it to the edge instead of hitting the hole and getting positive yardage.

In the long run, it's just one game. No need to panic. The kid is doing great overall.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:30 pm

furls wrote:No AP Title for tOSU. Just not going to happen regardless of what happens to finish this season.

I disagree about the B1G being shitty stopping them. What is stopping them is OSU playing shitty. If they were blowing out these shitty B1G teams (50-14 or something like that) week in week out, they would have the AP Title sitting in the WHAC at 4PM next week and Braxton Miller would be holding a bronze statue in Dec. All the pundits would be saying, "What if tOSU was eligible?", but inspite of all the insanity right now, tOSU doesn't even get mentioned because they are not playing that well.

Gotta say, the Offense in the bigger games really blows. PSU, MSU and now Wisco. Miller had a shit ton of time, the kind of time where great QBs throw WRs open. Kid has got to stop taking STUPID sacks too. Not every play can be a positive one. When he learns that he will immediately make this O better.


Without question, their play is the reason first and foremost. Just speaking to any "freak" type thing that might get a darkhorse considered.

When someone says, hey. why don't I take another look at OSU? They are going to see a team in which the conference allowed not that great of a team to run the table.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby pup » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:05 pm

No way to prove it, but I think you are all crazy if you do not think an undefeated OSU is ranked 1 or 2 in this week's AP poll if they were bowl eligible.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:17 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:lol.

No AP title.

Braxton's problems yesterday were because of him being indecisive. WRs were not getting open and he wasn't taking off in those situations. Especially in the 2nd half when Wisco dropped the spy. He was trying to stretch it to the edge instead of hitting the hole and getting positive yardage.

In the long run, it's just one game. No need to panic. The kid is doing great overall.


I have a lot of hope. And mad respect for you. But Miller looked like a bigger version of Pat White. One game, agreed. But he needs to start acting like a real QB.

Great overall is a bit over-stated, IMO. Kid has promise; and a long way to go.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:38 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:lol.

No AP title.

Braxton's problems yesterday were because of him being indecisive. WRs were not getting open and he wasn't taking off in those situations. Especially in the 2nd half when Wisco dropped the spy. He was trying to stretch it to the edge instead of hitting the hole and getting positive yardage.

In the long run, it's just one game. No need to panic. The kid is doing great overall.


I have a lot of hope. And mad respect for you. But Miller looked like a bigger version of Pat White. One game, agreed. But he needs to start acting like a real QB.

Great overall is a bit over-stated, IMO. Kid has promise; and a long way to go.


Fair enough.

But for a Sophomore in a brand new system, I think he's doing a damn fine job. Sure he needs to improve in some areas. I believe the Wisconsin game was more of an aberration than a cause for worry.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:13 am

pup wrote:No way to prove it, but I think you are all crazy if you do not think an undefeated OSU is ranked 1 or 2 in this week's AP poll if they were bowl eligible.


I would agree with this. I was speaking within the context of your original post, that is, with them being in the situaton they are in this year.

This year no way. Bowl eligible year they would be in.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby kman_holla8 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:32 am

pup wrote:No way to prove it, but I think you are all crazy if you do not think an undefeated OSU is ranked 1 or 2 in this week's AP poll if they were bowl eligible.


I also agree. While it is my opinion when you are playing cream puffs in November, you don't look so tough. There is no way Alabama, the cryin' Mark Richts, and Florida deserve to be ahead of any bowl eligible undefeated team that plays in a power conference,
Look at the schedules, Alabama lost on it's HOME field(of all places) to a 2 loss team from the Big12. Georgia only has 1 win verses a ranked opponent (some tough SEC schedule.) Mean while Florida has beaten ranked teams, however those ranked teams have been allowed to hang around the top 15 all year because of the dumb AP pollsters who insist on keeping them there while other teams would get dropped double digits places for one loss. (I think they are overrated and would love to see Ohio State take them on this year on a neutral field)
If tOSU lost anytime during the early season perhaps they would've been dropped out of the Top 25, most likely with a 2nd loss they would have been buried in the 'recieving votes' area. With a loss in the last month and they get dropped into the teens.

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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby fairvis » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:31 am

pup wrote:No way to prove it, but I think you are all crazy if you do not think an undefeated OSU is ranked 1 or 2 in this week's AP poll if they were bowl eligible.


I'm absolutely certain that would be the case. Now, it would be interesting to see what happened with the computers, as Sagarin has us 12th, Colley has us 3rd, and other rankings are all over the map. So even if we were #2 in the AP/Harris/USA Today, we may be getting jumped by the SEC champ. (even though Georgia has only played 1 top 25 team, they're still ahead of us in Sagarin's ratings. Fascinating.)
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:30 am

From the Dispatch

Twenty AP voters had the Buckeyes ranked No. 2, their most common placement. Seven had them ranked third and 12 had them fourth. But four voters had them outside the top 10.


The Buckeyes have no shot at an AP Nat'l championship because they won't play in a conference championship or a bowl game, which for all other teams is a chance to face-off against a quality opponent and prove something. If they Buckeye's get jumped because Georgia beats Alabama or Oregon beats UCLA then ND, then so be it, not much to argue with there.

However, right now, the fact that an entire third of the AP voters place the Buckeyes out of the top 4 show what a sham this poll is. And one guy's got them at 14? and he's not against the Big Ten, he just isn't impressed by any of OSU's wins?" Really? Who's Oregon beat? What about LSU? That win for Georgia over Florida so impressive that it negates the stomping they got from SC?

I'm all for respecting other people's opinions, but good Christ. I also understand it doesn't matter, but to that point the entire effing AP Poll doesn't matter. If they're going to keep publishing it, they ought to at least take themselves seriously.

Let the Buckeyes get jumped once the other teams deserve to jump them.


Hey, at least their consistent, pretty sure FSU is suffering from the same thing. I bet they shoot up the polls if they beat Florida this week.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:31 am

Georgia Tech beat Georgia
Georgia beat Alabama
USC beats ND

Joy.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby Love child of shawn kemp » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:14 pm

The polls have never been about ranking the best team. It is more about ranking the unbeaten teams. Bascially, any year that any team goes undefeated, they have received a shot at the BCS title game.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:22 pm

pup wrote:Georgia Tech beat Georgia
Georgia beat Alabama
USC beats ND

Joy.


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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby pup » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:20 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
pup wrote:Georgia Tech beat Georgia
Georgia beat Alabama
USC beats ND

Joy.


Barkley is out for the Notre Dame game


Only helps the cause.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:14 am

kman_holla8 wrote:
pup wrote:No way to prove it, but I think you are all crazy if you do not think an undefeated OSU is ranked 1 or 2 in this week's AP poll if they were bowl eligible.


I also agree. While it is my opinion when you are playing cream puffs in November, you don't look so tough. There is no way Alabama, the cryin' Mark Richts, and Florida deserve to be ahead of any bowl eligible undefeated team that plays in a power conference,
Look at the schedules, Alabama lost on it's HOME field(of all places) to a 2 loss team from the Big12. Georgia only has 1 win verses a ranked opponent (some tough SEC schedule.) Mean while Florida has beaten ranked teams, however those ranked teams have been allowed to hang around the top 15 all year because of the dumb AP pollsters who insist on keeping them there while other teams would get dropped double digits places for one loss. (I think they are overrated and would love to see Ohio State take them on this year on a neutral field)
If tOSU lost anytime during the early season perhaps they would've been dropped out of the Top 25, most likely with a 2nd loss they would have been buried in the 'recieving votes' area. With a loss in the last month and they get dropped into the teens.

1 ND 2tOSU 3 Bama 4 KState


Alabama's early schedule was weak.

Alabama lost at home to a good team AFTER winning in perhaps the toughest place to play against a top 5 squad.

Ohio State hasn't beaten anyone as good as Texas A&M. Havent beat anyone close to LSU. And hasn't had to play anyone in a "spot" created by those back to backs.

Look, an undefeated OSU without sanctions would be ranked above Alabama in the same scenario. But no way in holy hell does a one loss OSU team belong in the same conversation as one loss Alabama.

Especially if you're watching the games.

I mean, really, throw a high level defense like Alabama's,LSU's or even Florida's front 7 into this years Big Ten, where it's hard to find a GD guy that can complete a forward pass and see what results you get.

FWIW, the most accurate polls every year are those that stem from the Las Vegas Sports Consultants, cause those are made by guys who not only watch more football than those who make up the national polls, they back that opinion with money (and their livelyhood). These polls have OSU in the "tenish" range. Which is about right ILO.

Bottom line, there isn't, nor would be an undeafeated team from a "power" conference ranked below a one loss SEC team - especially how one half of the SEC was balanced this season. So I'm not sure what the big issue is. I will say this however, if the Big Ten doesn't ramp it up and keep evolving (And no, adding Maryland and Rutgers ain't helping the cause) and the SEC bounes back into form, it might not be too long before you could legitimately argue a one loss SEC team should be ahead of an undefeated big ten squad.

The Big 10 this year is bad. Really, really bad.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby kman_holla8 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:08 am

First off I am a shameless homer.

I will agree with you on your points, I think that the B1G is almost as bad as the ACC this year (which is a terrible truthful statement to have to make). However I do not think the the SEC is SOOOO much better that there top 6 teams have lapped the field. They are the best conference but they are also the most overrated. The B1G misses the 90's more than Michael Jackson.
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Re: Um, AP National Title?

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:22 am

I agree with kman. I think the SEC is the best conference because they have the most good teams, not necessarily because those good teams are on a different level than other conferences good teams. And I base that assessment on what I see with my eyes. I'm not sure how you can watch the likes of Florida, LSU, and Georgia each week and not see the same kind of glaring holes on each of them that other teams around the country have.

And where are these QBs in the SEC that are so good? Seriously, take out Braxton and Johnny Football and whose the next best QB from either conference? Whoever you pick, it isn't all that impressive.

I'm not sure what to think of the SEC quite yet, they play such a soft OOC schedule, as a whole, it's tough to tell. I"m looking forward to this week's FSU-UF game and SC-Clem to get a better idea of how they stack up.
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