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Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:09 pm

It's not hopeless.

It's just not close to hopeful.

IMO they desperately need a coach and a QB.

They also have a premier DB who has regressed in each of the last two seasons and is suddenly a sideshow.

They have NO other impact players on defense who teams have to game plan for or double team and chip.

Neither FB they drafted in the last two seasons is active, they have no veteran WR assisting in the development of Little and Gordon.

Every team has injuries and every team is on the bullshit end of some calls. Yet despite those injuries and the coin flip calls the Browns lose 80% of their games against teams facing those injuries and coin flip calls.

This is not close to a good football team thats a break or a call away. Saying it is is disengenuous. They have a few more guys today than they had last year who look to be solid NFL players. But that's not nearly enough and that doesn't even begin to consider lack of depth.

I just don't think that anyone looking objectively at the team can say it's a coach or a call or an injury away from being mediocre much less competitive.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:13 pm

motherscratcher wrote:the first thing I heard was Booms yelling about how they need to bench Weeden and start McCoy for the rest of the season. Not sure I understood his reasoning.


I can't wait to see this offense with Shurmur+McCoy... oh wait, I've already seen it.

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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:14 pm

OK, I hear ya. You're saying there are some things to work on. You're not sold on Weeden. All I'm saying is that if Haden plays and Weeden hits on that one throw, they probably beat Dallas and Baltimore and they are in prime position for a playoff run. When you compare Weeden's numbers to Andrew Luck...there's not a lot of difference there.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:24 pm

Technically, this team is already competitive. It's not debatable that they've had the opportunity to take the lead or tie in the 4th Quarter of almost every game. They may not win very much, but they're certainly competitive.

I don't know how many of those competitive games they win if they have a good coach, maybe 2, maybe 3... that puts them at 4-6, 5-5... the very definition of mediocre.

I've been watching a lot of other teams the last couple weeks, and there are a bunch of teams that would KILL for the Browns O Line. There are a number of teams that would open a vein to have even the Browns meh Defense.

If one wants to take any hope from that is up to the individual.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:24 pm

motherscratcher wrote:OK, I hear ya. You're saying there are some things to work on. You're not sold on Weeden. All I'm saying is that if Haden plays and Weeden hits on that one throw, they probably beat Dallas and Baltimore and they are in prime position for a playoff run. When you compare Weeden's numbers to Andrew Luck...there's not a lot of difference there.


Oh no you don't. You don't get to bring that kind of talk in the back door of the third page of a game thread. Grow a pair and attach your name to that take in its own thread there buddy boy.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:07 pm

FUDU wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:OK, I hear ya. You're saying there are some things to work on. You're not sold on Weeden. All I'm saying is that if Haden plays and Weeden hits on that one throw, they probably beat Dallas and Baltimore and they are in prime position for a playoff run. When you compare Weeden's numbers to Andrew Luck...there's not a lot of difference there.


Oh no you don't. You don't get to bring that kind of talk in the back door of the third page of a game thread. Grow a pair and attach your name to that take in its own thread there buddy boy.


I think that's Prosecutor ghosting as motherscratcher. Only possible explanation.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:13 pm

Fair enough on the hope thing and agree 100% on the OL. But they're 2-8 because they don't/can't win those games.

You can "if" yourself to death and we do. I dig that and I do that in the heat of the moment as well.

Someone at work asked if I thought trading Weeden and the Browns coaching staff for a healthy Big Ben and the Steelers staff would make the Browns a playoff team. I don't think it does.

There are simply not enough defensive playmakers despite you'd be running out there a very good QB and OL guided by a better staff. I think then you may be mediocre. Then you may be 4-6. But you'd still have multiple spots where your guys are simply not as talented as the other guys and that's the bottom line.

So it sounds like we agree that maybe they're a QB and coaching staff away from mediocrity and improvement. But for how long have we said that? And where do we get those?

Hikohadon wrote:Technically, this team is already competitive. It's not debatable that they've had the opportunity to take the lead or tie in the 4th Quarter of almost every game. They may not win very much, but they're certainly competitive.

I don't know how many of those competitive games they win if they have a good coach, maybe 2, maybe 3... that puts them at 4-6, 5-5... the very definition of mediocre.

I've been watching a lot of other teams the last couple weeks, and there are a bunch of teams that would KILL for the Browns O Line. There are a number of teams that would open a vein to have even the Browns meh Defense.

If one wants to take any hope from that is up to the individual.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:18 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
FUDU wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:OK, I hear ya. You're saying there are some things to work on. You're not sold on Weeden. All I'm saying is that if Haden plays and Weeden hits on that one throw, they probably beat Dallas and Baltimore and they are in prime position for a playoff run. When you compare Weeden's numbers to Andrew Luck...there's not a lot of difference there.


Oh no you don't. You don't get to bring that kind of talk in the back door of the third page of a game thread. Grow a pair and attach your name to that take in its own thread there buddy boy.


I think that's Prosecutor ghosting as motherscratcher. Only possible explanation.


I've been slumming around here for over 2 years. In that time I've read every article Peeker has written and probably over 95% of the comments he's posted. I've put in the time and I've done the research. This was the comment I determined most likely to make Peeker's head explode...again.

Now, I'm just waiting.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:21 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
FUDU wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:OK, I hear ya. You're saying there are some things to work on. You're not sold on Weeden. All I'm saying is that if Haden plays and Weeden hits on that one throw, they probably beat Dallas and Baltimore and they are in prime position for a playoff run. When you compare Weeden's numbers to Andrew Luck...there's not a lot of difference there.


Oh no you don't. You don't get to bring that kind of talk in the back door of the third page of a game thread. Grow a pair and attach your name to that take in its own thread there buddy boy.


I think that's Prosecutor ghosting as motherscratcher. Only possible explanation.



I've been slumming around here for over 2 years. In that time I've read every article Peeker has written and probably over 95% of the comments he's posted. I've put in the time and I've done the research. This was the comment I determined most likely to make Peeker's head explode...again.

Now, I'm just waiting.


I failed to consider the "make Peeker's head explode Thanksgiving week" gambit. Very clever of you, mo. You get bonus points for that one.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:23 pm

I'm not taking the bait.

My last birthday matured me. That, the Paxil and the Lexapro.

Mellow.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:24 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
FUDU wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:OK, I hear ya. You're saying there are some things to work on. You're not sold on Weeden. All I'm saying is that if Haden plays and Weeden hits on that one throw, they probably beat Dallas and Baltimore and they are in prime position for a playoff run. When you compare Weeden's numbers to Andrew Luck...there's not a lot of difference there.


Oh no you don't. You don't get to bring that kind of talk in the back door of the third page of a game thread. Grow a pair and attach your name to that take in its own thread there buddy boy.


I think that's Prosecutor ghosting as motherscratcher. Only possible explanation.



I've been slumming around here for over 2 years. In that time I've read every article Peeker has written and probably over 95% of the comments he's posted. I've put in the time and I've done the research. This was the comment I determined most likely to make Peeker's head explode...again.

Now, I'm just waiting.


I failed to consider the "make Peeker's head explode Thanksgiving week" gambit. Very clever of you, mo. You get bonus points for that one.


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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:25 pm

Eh, you're all dumber than a box of rocks.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby bookelly » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:42 pm

In no particular order, what this team needs (besides the obvious holes in the secondary):

1 - A new Head Coach
2 - A new Head Coach
3 - A new Head Coach
4 - A new Head Coach
5 - A new Head Coach
6 - A new...

...shall I continue?

There's no use attempting to evaluate the talent or lack thereof on the roster when you have a guy who has NO concept of how to play football leading the team.

I know Mr. Haslem that you have promised to wait until the end of the year...but for the love of GOD...give us all a Christmas present and tar and feather this incompetent boob before we all lose our fucking minds.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:37 pm

peeker643 wrote:Someone at work asked if I thought trading Weeden and the Browns coaching staff for a healthy Big Ben and the Steelers staff would make the Browns a playoff team. I don't think it does.


Ooooo, I think it does. Or better yet, move the entire team minus the QB's to Pittsburgh for the Steelers coaches and Big Rapist, they're dangerous as hell. Winning orgs have a way of turning mediocre players into useful cogs.

BTW- I personally have not come to the final conclusion that the Browns will never be good with this QB. Part of that is that I don't think he's been nearly as bad as some make him out to be and part of it is the knowledge that they'll have to have another year like this next year if they want to get an "elite" QB since there ain't one in the 2013 draft.

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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:40 pm

motherscratcher wrote:OK, I hear ya. You're saying there are some things to work on. You're not sold on Weeden. All I'm saying is that if Haden plays and Weeden hits on that one throw, they probably beat Dallas and Baltimore and they are in prime position for a playoff run. When you compare Weeden's numbers to Andrew Luck...there's not a lot of difference there.


Yet there a big difference between Weeden and Andrew Luck.

Huge difference.

And I'm not talkin' potential. I'm talkin'now.

Like trading Weeden's 3rd and 10 5 yard passes for Andrew Luck making PLAYS downfield.

One understands that type of checkdown is going to be open, yet understand the play gains the team little, the other looks at it as an open receiver and fires cause he's happy to see an open receiver. Luck is already throwing guys open, Weeden is searching for open guys. One style works in the league, and one style is Mark Sanchez.

And as big of a zero as Shurmer is, yesterday, Andrew Luck takes it upon himself to wait until the 2 minute warning before running that dive and throws the GD stupid fade pattern in bounds.

There is a local kid from the Lake County area who finds himself in player personel for an NFL team. Many who know me and where I'm from can probably figure out of who I speak. Many of you KNOW who this person is. Anyways, after bringing in Brandon Weeden their number one issue with the guy was that they felt he wasn't all that smart - and that's putting it nicely.

Why bring this up? Two reasons, 1. We've seen some not so smart play and most importantly 2. This is a quality that a new regime is going to find quite undesirable, should they be on the fence at all.

My guess is the shitty coach, his shitty staff, and the not so bright QB that has no ties to a new regime are ALL in big, big trouble.

So, no, Brandon Weeden isn't the whole reason they stink. But am I even the least bit excited about next year if a 30 year old guy I have reason to believe ain't all that smart is still working through young QB issues is at the healm? And if you posed the same question to Jimmy Haslam?
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:19 am

I need to use more emoticons.

BTW, is that player personel guy TJ?
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby jerryroche » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:41 am

peeker643 wrote:It's not hopeless. It's just not close to hopeful.
This is not close to a good football team thats a break or a call away. Saying it is is disengenuous. They have a few more guys today than they had last year who look to be solid NFL players. But that's not nearly enough and that doesn't even begin to consider lack of depth.
I just don't think that anyone looking objectively at the team can say it's a coach or a call or an injury away from being mediocre much less competitive.

Peeker, even you and I can see the Browns' weaknesses: inexperience at OLB; nobody behind Haden at CB; invisible FS; inexperienced receivers. In the NFL, opponents always, always exploit weaknesses. But this team IS competitive, and it's not that far from contention. If Banner and/or Heckert can come up with a couple DBs in the offseason and the receivers eventually play up to their potential, this team could very well win 9 or 10 games in the near future.

One stipulation: with a new head coach. Shurmur has done a decent job of keeping the team together (until possibly recently), but his play-calling and overall game management is atrocious. He obviously needs to simmer on the stove as a coordinator for about three more years.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:49 am

Like trading Weeden's 3rd and 10 5 yard passes for Andrew Luck making PLAYS downfield.



During the Colt-Pats game, a stat came up that said the Colts were #1 in the NFL in converting 3rd and 10/longer. Just mind-boggling for a rookie.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:16 am

Fucking Colts. They go from an All-Time Great QB to the best prospect in a decade all in the course of a season?

Diabolical Geniuses or Lucky MFers.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby gameface » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:34 pm

Brandon Weeden not smart? Why, he's a genius, he just talks funny.

Well, here's hoping whoever you're referring to has some kind of prejudice against Okies and dumb-ass cowboy QBs.

And cross your fingers he's Terry Bradshaw dumb or Brett Favre dumb, and not Derek Anderson dumb.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:39 pm

gameface wrote:Brandon Weeden not smart? Why, he's a genius, he just talks funny.

Well, here's hoping whoever you're referring to has some kind of prejudice against Okies and dumb-ass cowboy QBs.

And cross your fingers he's Terry Bradshaw dumb or Brett Favre dumb, and not Derek Anderson dumb.


Problem is it's 2012. In the 70's you could get away with it, in 2012 if you can't read defenses at the line you're, well, Mike Vick.

In the case of Weeden you'd be Mike Vick minus athletic ability.

Which I could see becoming a problem.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby pod2dawg » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:34 pm

I would classify Weeden's QB play as schizophrenic.

* Disclaimer: I am not a psychiatrist.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:03 am

pod2dawg wrote:I would classify Weeden's QB play as schizophrenic.

* Disclaimer: I am not a psychiatrist.


No, but you're effing nuts.

Crazy knows crazy.

;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby pod2dawg » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:22 pm

......and you don't f%^%ck with crazy. ;)

Hey, on a tangential matter, I heard climbing up and down ladders (tree stands)does ellicit pain along the lateral aspect of the ankle & subtalar joints....right where the ligaments used to be.

....you can't fix crazy. :)
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:29 pm

pod2dawg wrote:......and you don't f%^%ck with crazy. ;)

Hey, on a tangential matter, I heard climbing up and down ladders (tree stands)does ellicit pain along the lateral aspect of the ankle & subtalar joints....right where the ligaments used to be.

....you can't fix crazy. :)



Climbing was fine. Falling would be problematic. To the ankle and head.

And dragging 160lbs of literal dead weight a mile presented some challenges and some pain as well.

But I'll be right back in there Monday hoping to do it all over again ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby justmebd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:23 pm

peeker643 wrote:
pod2dawg wrote:......and you don't f%^%ck with crazy. ;)

Hey, on a tangential matter, I heard climbing up and down ladders (tree stands)does ellicit pain along the lateral aspect of the ankle & subtalar joints....right where the ligaments used to be.

....you can't fix crazy. :)



Climbing was fine. Falling would be problematic. To the ankle and head.

And dragging 160lbs of literal dead weight a mile presented some challenges and some pain as well.

But I'll be right back in there Monday hoping to do it all over again ;-) ;) :wink:

Anyone who willingly endures the elements usual for this time of year (F$&*ING Cold mostly) to do something no longer necessary for survival definitely has a screw loose.

Of course, I say the same thing about people who ski.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:41 pm

justmebd wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
pod2dawg wrote:......and you don't f%^%ck with crazy. ;)

Hey, on a tangential matter, I heard climbing up and down ladders (tree stands)does ellicit pain along the lateral aspect of the ankle & subtalar joints....right where the ligaments used to be.

....you can't fix crazy. :)



Climbing was fine. Falling would be problematic. To the ankle and head.

And dragging 160lbs of literal dead weight a mile presented some challenges and some pain as well.

But I'll be right back in there Monday hoping to do it all over again ;-) ;) :wink:

Anyone who willingly endures the elements usual for this time of year (F$&*ING Cold mostly) to do something no longer necessary for survival definitely has a screw loose.

Of course, I say the same thing about people who ski.


I hear ya. I get that.

But understand I've been working Catastrophic losses for three weeks for Progressive. No injuries, all effing big trucks and $50k Lexus Suvs swallowed by salt water. Mind numbing, boring, bullshit stuff (though I have a new found respect for the people who travel to these events and deal with it).

This year, more than any other, I need to sit in the woods, in the quiet, even if it means freezing my balls to a tree, and kill something. I'll sit there all day, every day, in the cold woods, 20' above the ground, and wait.

I need it.

I need it.

Not sure I noted it, but I need it.

And I love it. Nowhere and nothing I'd rather be or rather be doing.
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Re: Browns Vs. Cowboys 11/18

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:01 am

Why don't you stop being a pussy and enter the woods with a knife, compas, 4x4 sheet of canvas, and a 5 foot length of rope? Like a man.
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