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Trading Andy

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Trading Andy

Unread postby rk » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:36 am

Trading Andy was brought up on the first game thread so might as well discuss it here for the rest of the season. Anyway today there's an article about Gilbert that is pointing to a willingness to move players a

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/b ... index.html

"The key thing, whoever you are and wherever you are, you can not wait,'' Gilbert said. "The big lesson was if a player is not willing to extend, no matter who they are, no matter where they are playing, no matter what kind of season you had, you can not risk going into a summer and having them leave in unrestricted free agency and get nothing back for it.


That does not necessarily come into play with Andy since he is under team control until 2015 but it does show a willingness from the top to make a trade -even if- it could affect the existing season.

If the Cavs are going to compete for the playoffs this year than Andy is almost certainly going to play a large part in that. And while it's possible (at least in theory) Zeller, Thompson, Samuels, et al step up and make Andy less vital to this team there's little or no chance that his output on the floor can be replaced.

So while I still can see the possibility of Andy being traded it would seem to have to include either an extremely talented, younger player with the all-star potential or it has to be at least one unprotected or nearly unprotected lottery pick from a team with a legitimate shot of playing badly enough that the pick becomes something worth more than Andy. I don't see many teams that fit the criteria to make that happen.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby pup » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:20 am

Basically, a great team needs to have a shitty team's unprotected pick to make anything happen. Does that exist?

Or a great team has a young athletic big that is too raw to contribute? Not sure that exists either.

I take Gilbert's quote to say, no matter the situation you cannot let someone walk away. Since we are not real close to Andy walking away, I don't know that is see the correlation between his quote and our situation. It might have more meaning to not taking whatever it was they could have gotten for Twan last year, but that is even a stretch.

I think Andy is what Byron is trying to coach the kids up to, and having him is more important that the stats he puts up.

And I still shake my head about the the way I fell about him now than I did back in the day.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:21 am

pup wrote:Basically, a great team needs to have a shitty team's unprotected pick to make anything happen. Does that exist?


OKC has Toronto's, but they have enough bigs with no offensive game.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:25 am

Toronto pick is top 14 protected this year, then top three foe two yesrs then number one for two years.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:04 pm

No more Isiah picks left out there?
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:25 pm

We have to keep him for when LeBron comes back in 2 years.

Also, Lee, I caught a couple of ads during last night's game for Sam Amico's new show. Will you be tuning in?
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby StewieG » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:34 pm

I'm sure he'll move back to Ohio just to be sure he sees it every week.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby pod2dawg » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:47 pm

pup wrote:
And I still shake my head about the the way I fell about him now than I did back in the day.



Ain't it the truth.

Coaching?........ :hide:
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby rk » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:14 am

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:No more Isiah picks left out there?


The Clippers likely aren't fielding calls about unprotected picks either...
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:56 am

AV is under team control through 2015, so they're a couple of years away from being in a situation where they have to trade him or let him walk.

That being said, he's healthy right now and playing very well, so the question is whether they'll be open to moving him to fill a couple of holes. Andy is 30 and has missed significant time to injuries the last two years. His aggressive, high contact, physical style of play lead to more risk of injury than a finesse guy like Antwan Jamison, for example. Having just traded up in the first round to draft a true center, it might be worth it to move Andy while his value is high if they can get the right package. If he suffers a major injury for the third consecutive year, his value will never be this high again.

The Cavs need more quality players for the rotation. As long as Gibson, Miles, Walton, Samuels, and Gasspi are getting playing time this team is going nowhere. The bench was outscored by Milwaukee's bench by 47 points last night. Until the Cavs add some quality depth they have no chance of contending.

If Zeller comes along quickly this season and if a contending team whose window is closing has a major injury at C or PF and is willing to be raped, then I could see it happening. But that's a lot of ifs.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby scott » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:16 am

Cavs need to trade Andy to make sure they are bad enough to pick in the top 5 again.

This team is gonna finish 8th-11th or so in the East and that does them no good long term.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:56 pm

scott wrote:Cavs need to trade Andy to make sure they are bad enough to pick in the top 5 again.

This team is gonna finish 8th-11th or so in the East and that does them no good long term.



Yes, because they've done so well with their previous top 5 picks (those that weren't no-brainers).
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:02 am

Prosecutor wrote:AV is under team control through 2015, so they're a couple of years away from being in a situation where they have to trade him or let him walk.

That being said, he's healthy right now and playing very well, so the question is whether they'll be open to moving him to fill a couple of holes. Andy is 30 and has missed significant time to injuries the last two years. His aggressive, high contact, physical style of play lead to more risk of injury than a finesse guy like Antwan Jamison, for example. Having just traded up in the first round to draft a true center, it might be worth it to move Andy while his value is high if they can get the right package. If he suffers a major injury for the third consecutive year, his value will never be this high again.

The Cavs need more quality players for the rotation. As long as Gibson, Miles, Walton, Samuels, and Gasspi are getting playing time this team is going nowhere. The bench was outscored by Milwaukee's bench by 47 points last night. Until the Cavs add some quality depth they have no chance of contending.

If Zeller comes along quickly this season and if a contending team whose window is closing has a major injury at C or PF and is willing to be raped, then I could see it happening. But that's a lot of ifs.

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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:29 am

:lmfao:
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby scott » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:47 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
scott wrote:Cavs need to trade Andy to make sure they are bad enough to pick in the top 5 again.

This team is gonna finish 8th-11th or so in the East and that does them no good long term.



Yes, because they've done so well with their previous top 5 picks (those that weren't no-brainers).


I realize there is a lot of angst over the TT pick from 2 drafts ago, but if you go look at that draft after #1 it is absolute shit. Is there a guy taken after him that was in play at #4 that you would trade TT for today? I was pushing for Vala with that pick and I'd trade TT for him right now. Can't say Vala having a better NBA career is a lock though. Drafting 4th doesn't guarantee you a great NBA player to select.

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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:17 pm

aoxo1 wrote:It's like reading the fucking USA Today.

You come out of a 2 year posting hiatus with this gem.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:18 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:It's like reading the fucking USA Today.

You come out of a 2 year posting hiatus with this gem.


Ha! I didn't even notice that was aoxo1.

Nice.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:22 pm

Exactly why I will no longer post about the Cavs. Pros has won.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:57 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Exactly why I will no longer post about the Cavs. Pros has won.


Godamnit.

I know fuck-all about basketball. I need you, hoodoo, Olddawg, et al posting.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby bac5665 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:34 pm

Yeah, eO, some of us want to learn. I need to know why I should be hopeless, even when the team looks competitive to my untrained eyes.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby jerryroche » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:41 pm

Prosecutor wrote:The Cavs need more quality players for the rotation. As long as Gibson, Miles, Walton, Samuels, and Gasspi are getting playing time this team is going nowhere. The bench was outscored by Milwaukee's bench by 47 points last night. Until the Cavs add some quality depth they have no chance of contending.

Agree. But a team only needs a 7- or 8-man rotation in the playoffs, not the 10 or 11 generally used during the regular season.

Irving, Varejao and maybe Waiters are starters on a decent playoff team. TT, maybe Gee, maybe Zeller can be decent subs. To round out a contending 8-man rotation, the Cavs are short two really good starters—one of whom is definitely a small forward who can bang away from 20 feet.

If you want to contend next year and still trade Andy, you've abso-tively got to get a quality starter in return, or you're depending on the 2013 draft to fill THREE holes in the starting lineup—and that's pretty near impossible.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:42 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Exactly why I will no longer post about the Cavs.


you just did.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby Spin » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:27 am

Prosecutor wrote:That being said, he's healthy right now and playing very well,


You jinxed him. He's out with a knee injury. With Zeller out with a concussion, we're center-less.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:56 am

If you want to contend next year and still trade Andy, you've abso-tively got to get a quality starter in return, or you're depending on the 2013 draft to fill THREE holes in the starting lineup—and that's pretty near impossible.


Agree we need to get a quality starter for Andy, but why would a team with Finals aspirations give up a quality starter? You fill one hole and create another. Unless they have two starting caliber SF's who can bang from 20 feet, and who has that?

We have Andy through 2014-15. Zeller is looking like a legit starting center to me by next year, especially if he can bulk up a bit. TT, I'm sorry to say, has not improved over his rookie season. Maybe he can bench press a few more pounds, but it's not helping his game. Put Z at center, Andy at PF, KI and Waiters at guard, and use the cap space to sign a quality SF. Gee and TT come off the bench and we need to add a backup 2 that's better than Boobie or Miles. Waiters can slide to PG when KI sits. There's your 8-man playoff rotation next year.

I'm not expecting much from the 2013 draft because they're looking like a 30 win team so far. However, the Lakers are 1-4, and the Cavs have the right to swap Miami's first round pick this year for the Lakers' first round pick as long as the Lakers' pick in not in the top 14 (if I understand it correctly). Could be interesting.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:48 pm

Ya, I see where you are going with this Pros. Extrapolate that Lakers season out and damn, might be a nice pick to have...

Good thinkin'
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:12 pm

Orenthal wrote:Ya, I see where you are going with this Pros. Extrapolate that Lakers season out and damn, might be a nice pick to have...

Good thinkin'


Hey, I ran both the first five Laker games of the season and the entirety of Tyler Zeller's pre concussion NBA career through "The Duncanator," and had no choice but to draw the same conclusions as Pros.

We'll have a draft day coup being able to swap out those picks, enabling us to get a premier player to play alongside our franchise pillar on the blocks.

At this rate I figure the Cavs should trade Andy for the simple reason of ridding him before they have to cut him, because we have just too many excellent NBA players.

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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:21 pm

^I'm not the only one. Watch the Kings, last two games they are 2-0. They keep that up they are in the playoffs and the Cavaliers score another pick! We may have 3 picks in the high single digits to low/mid-teens. Package all 3 for a very high, perhaps overall #1. Pick bows boy Noel.

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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby dmiles » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:12 pm

Dammit Lead, there goes my monitor. Carne Asade and Rice wasted.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:19 pm

Orenthal wrote:Ya, I see where you are going with this Pros. Extrapolate that Lakers season out and damn, might be a nice pick to have...

Good thinkin'


Extrapolate the Lakers' season? Why didn't I think of that?

Anybody know how a team with Dewey, Kobe and Gasol can be 1-4? They've only played Western Conference teams, so maybe when they come east they'll clean up on the weak sisters of the Association.

However, they do have seven players over the age of 30, including soon-to-be-39 Steve Nash, who's already out with a broken leg. It's a full 82 game season this year - let's see how it plays out.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:55 pm

Andy is absolutely F'ing amazing this year. Guy should be worth a ton in terms of trade value problem is the teams that would want him the most seem like the ones who don't have potential lottery picks in the upcoming draft.

If we keep him around and he doesn't get hurt this year we are definitely going to win more games then we should if we want one more good lottery pick.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:04 am

Funny thing about having a starting caliber big and two decent guards.....if your team plays shit for defense and has zero bench, you're STILL in the lottery.

Who wanted to know why it's hopeless?
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby rk » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:54 pm

Maybe. I don't think it's a gimme they'll be in the lotto. West coast trip where you were down your backup center almost the entire trip and down Andy for at least one game isn't exactly a good barometer of where the team will be in a couple months.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby andrew6586 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:39 am

The Cavs really need to trade him now. I made a 50 push-up bet with one of my students that he would be gone by the trade deadline. He needs to go now more than ever.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby rk » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:25 pm

andrew6586 wrote:The Cavs really need to trade him now. I made a 50 push-up bet with one of my students that he would be gone by the trade deadline. He needs to go now more than ever.


Does the winner get to eat all 50? Or does the loser just buy them? Because that's like a $15 bet. I wouldn't sweat it.

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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby noles1 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:03 pm

I've tried to listen to the arguments to trade him but at this point, I can't see where we get the value we would likely welcome from moving him.

Maybe I'm missing something as I scower teams here but looking at the likes of Minnesota (D. Williams and his disappointment thus far), Philadelphia (have a couple "pieces", not overwhelming), maybe Houston (package of Royce & T. Jones?) or Sac if they grow entirely exhausted with Cousins (nearly zero chance, especially at his salary #)... anyway, those are the only ones that to me seem to put a package together that would make sense, unless the Cavs are willing to just risk it for a ping pong ball in the lottery. (Houston owns a Raps protected, maybe Utah can get in due to their GS protected pick?)

Still I think there is a distinct possibility Andy goes nowhere this season and moves in the off-season after teams get a feel for FA and the draft.
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Re: Trading Andy

Unread postby andrew6586 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:12 pm

rk wrote:
andrew6586 wrote:The Cavs really need to trade him now. I made a 50 push-up bet with one of my students that he would be gone by the trade deadline. He needs to go now more than ever.


Does the winner get to eat all 50? Or does the loser just buy them? Because that's like a $15 bet. I wouldn't sweat it.

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