Other Teams' Offseason Thread

[skatingtripods]

Might as well kick it off with this monster deal.

The Blue Jays are going to look a lot different when we open the year there on April 2. Reportedly getting Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle, Jose Reyes, Emilio Bonifacio, and John Buck from the Marlins for top prospect Adeiny Hechavarria + more.

[leadpipe]

How bout Marlins management. Get that broke ass city to finance that stadium deal, take on salary for a year, and jettison it all.

Now in process of finding sucker to purchase team, with the stadium garnering them millions more than had they sold it pre-stadium.

Either weasels or geniuses, depending on your perspective.

[Erie Warrior]

Epic Dick Move.

Really incredible. Any chance the league denies it?

[motherscratcher]

It's more ridiculous than most people realize.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2011-05-05/news/six-lies-about-the-marlins-stadium/

[leadpipe]

It's more ridiculous than most people realize.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2011-05-05/news/six-lies-about-the-marlins-stadium/

Perfect storm of a slimey front office that was willing to take advantage of a dim city administration. They even duped the city into paying the taxes on the PARKING areas.

Again, they will now sell the team and leave the city holding that bag for years.

[justmebd]

I'm stunned. Then again, this isn't the first time the Marlins have dumped pretty much their entire team.

How could anyone be a fan of that team given its brief history?

(Of course, I ask this as a Cleveland fan. So who's the asshole)

[Dnthateonthepronk]

I thought maybe Selig/MLB might nix this deal to prevent what is obviously going on here, but that wouldnt stop them, they would just sell off each piece individually.

Just sad.

[andrew6586]

Worst part for us: this asshole owner has two more World Series rings than Cleveland in that past 64. Awesome.

[WiscTribeFan]

He's a genius, pure and simple.

Rakes in millions on profit sharing over the years, spends a little money here and there, gets the state to finance a brand new stadium, signs a bunch of stars to hugely back-loaded contracts, then trades them all before they really get expensive. Sit back and collect the money.

Pure, unadulterated evil genius.

The thing is, everyone has known that this guy is a total douche-bag, and has been so for many years. Why would anyone think that he wouldn't pull something like this?

[Damage]

I thought maybe Selig/MLB might nix this deal to prevent what is obviously going on here, but that wouldnt stop them, they would just sell off each piece individually.

Just sad.

Why would Selig nix the deal, considering what he did to Montreal?

[Adverb Harry]

Another problem I see with it--from an Indians standpoint--is that the collection of prospects Miami receives really isn't all that impressive, considering the players going to Toronto. I know it was largely a "clear the decks" salary dump type of trade, but could it set a bad precedent in the trade market if the Indians are indeed (and correctly so) fielding offers for guys like Choo, Cabrera, Perez, etc? It's already getting harder to obtain top prospects in trades...does this further increase the trend?

[RedDawg53]

Torii Hunter just signed with the Detroit Tigers for a 2 year deal. With Victor Martinez coming back this team will be loaded.

[Adverb Harry]

26 million. Not saying Dolan is cheap, but man, we couldn't do a two-year deal for that? Maybe that is a sign of our offseason plans.

[skatingtripods]

26 million. Not saying Dolan is cheap, but man, we couldn't do a two-year deal for that? Maybe that is a sign of our offseason plans.

Hunter wanted to go to Detroit all along. Probably doesn't even come here for 2 yrs 30M.

Only other team involved was the Dodgers. Hunter probably didn't want to go to the NL.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

I thought maybe Selig/MLB might nix this deal to prevent what is obviously going on here, but that wouldnt stop them, they would just sell off each piece individually.

Just sad.

Why would Selig nix the deal, considering what he did to Montreal?

And the fact that Selig is in on the whole thing.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

I thought maybe Selig/MLB might nix this deal to prevent what is obviously going on here, but that wouldnt stop them, they would just sell off each piece individually.

Just sad.

I had seenarticles that maybe he knew, but I only skimmed them. I thought maybe after he strong armed the Dodgers maybe he would do the same to the Marlins, but that was only because I didnt have a deep understanding of how corrupt this whole thing actually was, I knew the whole thing was fishy..... but I didnt know it was this bad.

[jerryroche]

Maybe it's just the cynic in me, having followed the Indians for so many years with so little to show for it, but...

Doesn't it seem like MLB is in danger of becoming one big, shitty joke in most of its markets? I mean, there are a few good teams out there, but they're only good because they can spend more money than the 99%. The rest of the teams (Indians included...Indians especially) are falling apart at the seams because they can't find enough competent talent to fill out a major-league roster. I'm even getting to the point where I'm not so sure it's Shapiro and Antonetti's fault any more.

Ahhh, it probably IS just me.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

Maybe it's just the cynic in me, having followed the Indians for so many years with so little to show for it, but...

Doesn't it seem like MLB is in danger of becoming one big, shitty joke in most of its markets? I mean, there are a few good teams out there, but they're only good because they can spend more money than the 99%. The rest of the teams (Indians included...Indians especially) are falling apart at the seams because they can't find enough competent talent to fill out a major-league roster. I'm even getting to the point where I'm not so sure it's Shapiro and Antonetti's fault any more.

Ahhh, it probably IS just me.

This happened 10 years ago.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

Another problem I see with it--from an Indians standpoint--is that the collection of prospects Miami receives really isn't all that impressive, considering the players going to Toronto. I know it was largely a "clear the decks" salary dump type of trade, but could it set a bad precedent in the trade market if the Indians are indeed (and correctly so) fielding offers for guys like Choo, Cabrera, Perez, etc? It's already getting harder to obtain top prospects in trades...does this further increase the trend?

No, this was strictly a salary dump, the Marlins probably threw darts to see which prospects they'd take. The Indians have legitimate players on team-friendly contracts to trade, which should bring in better return. Even a guy like Choo, whose approaching free agency, should bring in more by himself than the collection of terrible contracts Miami sent away.

[leadpipe]

Another problem I see with it--from an Indians standpoint--is that the collection of prospects Miami receives really isn't all that impressive, considering the players going to Toronto. I know it was largely a "clear the decks" salary dump type of trade, but could it set a bad precedent in the trade market if the Indians are indeed (and correctly so) fielding offers for guys like Choo, Cabrera, Perez, etc? It's already getting harder to obtain top prospects in trades...does this further increase the trend?

No, this was strictly a salary dump, the Marlins probably threw darts to see which prospects they'd take. The Indians have legitimate players on team-friendly contracts to trade, which should bring in better return. Even a guy like Choo, whose approaching free agency, should bring in more by himself than the collection of terrible contracts Miami sent away.

Not apples to oranges, cause the Indians don't have players in the Reyes/Johnson class to move - at any price.

I would argue that there are enough suitors in the league that would give you more for a top level playa, and absorb the salary, then what the Tribe might be trying to move.

Either way, the ship has sailed long ago where you are going to get some kind of huge blue-chip prospect hall for players coming out of a small market. Everyone and their Mom knows the situation of the small markets team, and that's why the price is down.

As I mentioned here a month or so ago, the similarity between the Tribe and the Marlins lies in a ten year run of poor draft results. Making some trade moves here or there, and getting the best of the luck involved in them means something, but if you REALLY want to win in this market you better draft well. Period.

The Marlins whiffing on ten straight number one picks has afforded us to see how the sliminess can be moved from "stripping championship teams" to "Raping an entire broke city," so that's somehing that came out of it.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

Not apples to oranges, cause the Indians don't have players in the Reyes/Johnson class to move - at any price.

Choo is better than Reyes. The only difference is Reyes is already signed to the contract that Choo is likely to get.

[skatingtripods]

Jon Morosi on All Bets Are Off just said he believes James Shields and Jeremy Hellickson are available in exchange for offense.

I'd take Hellickson. Shields is a short-term fix for a contender. Hellickson's at least controllable until 2017.

Cabrera + ??? for Hellickson sounds good.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

All that tax payer money to build that abomination of a stadium, then they blow up the team they just built.

[leadpipe]

Not apples to oranges, cause the Indians don't have players in the Reyes/Johnson class to move - at any price.

Choo is better than Reyes. The only difference is Reyes is already signed to the contract that Choo is likely to get.

We can argue who is better, but one thing is certain, the market will find the shortstop far more desirable then the corner outfielder, as it always has.

[motherscratcher]

Jon Morosi on All Bets Are Off just said he believes James Shields and Jeremy Hellickson are available in exchange for offense.

I'd take Hellickson. Shields is a short-term fix for a contender. Hellickson's at least controllable until 2017.

Cabrera + ??? for Hellickson sounds good.

I wld do that in a heartbeat.

[skatingtripods]

Jon Morosi on All Bets Are Off just said he believes James Shields and Jeremy Hellickson are available in exchange for offense.

I'd take Hellickson. Shields is a short-term fix for a contender. Hellickson's at least controllable until 2017.

Cabrera + ??? for Hellickson sounds good.

I wld do that in a heartbeat.

Well, the "+ ???" would likely be a couple significant pieces. The better prospects in our system, short of Lindor and Naquin.

Cabrera and Choo possibly gets it done, which I would also do pretty quickly.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

Jon Morosi on All Bets Are Off just said he believes James Shields and Jeremy Hellickson are available in exchange for offense.

I'd take Hellickson. Shields is a short-term fix for a contender. Hellickson's at least controllable until 2017.

Cabrera + ??? for Hellickson sounds good.

They really want a Catcher, A Santanna for Hellickson would make more sense on their side, especially since both are young and Carlos comes with more Control than AC. Not sure they would give up that much control with Hellickson for only 2 years with Cabrera.

[skatingtripods]

Jon Morosi on All Bets Are Off just said he believes James Shields and Jeremy Hellickson are available in exchange for offense.

I'd take Hellickson. Shields is a short-term fix for a contender. Hellickson's at least controllable until 2017.

Cabrera + ??? for Hellickson sounds good.

They really want a Catcher, A Santanna for Hellickson would make more sense on their side, especially since both are young and Carlos comes with more Control than AC. Not sure they would give up that much control with Hellickson for only 2 years with Cabrera.

They need to keep pace in the AL East. They're not worried about losing a guy like Hellickson. They'd just move McGee or Davis into the rotation. Morosi's in the know. If he said Shields and Hellickson are available for offense, then they probably are. They have no problem losing Choo for a draft pick at season's end with their drafting record.

With their pitching, a couple of three win players like Cabrera and Choo could make the difference. Could potentially see a guy like Joe Smith go in that deal as well.

Most likely a pipe dream, as I'm not sure Antonetti would have the stones to make that move if it were offered to him, but if Hellickson is in fact available, Antonetti should have called already.

[motherscratcher]

No matter where you stand on Antonetti, I doubt he turns down a deal that brings Helickson to Cleveland. I don't see how any GM in his positionncould hope to do better than that.

[skatingtripods]

No matter where you stand on Antonetti, I doubt he turns down a deal that brings Helickson to Cleveland. I don't see how any GM in his positionncould hope to do better than that.

I would hope not. From a PR standpoint, they'd get destroyed if they sent Choo and Cabrera in the same deal. Not saying that should play into Antonetti's mind one iota, but, somebody in the front office would make that case.

I could argue against Hellickson as well, though. For starters, his FIP is 1.4 runs higher than his career ERA. His SIERA (skill-interactive ERA) is in that same range. Those are strong indicators of regression on the horizon. His left on base % numbers are extremely high for a guy who doesn't strike out many hitters. All of his road peripherals are worse than his home ones.

He's obviously far more competent than most (all) of the guys we have in our rotation, so by comparison, he looks outstanding. There are some concerns. Not enough to keep from inquiring on his availability and making a serious proposal, but, something to make you pause.

The Rays are one of the most advanced front offices in baseball. The very nature of them looking into trading Hellickson, guys like McGee and Davis waiting in the wings or not, with so many years of control is something to consider as well.

[swerb]

Torri Hunter to the Tigers. Big upgrade in RF, which was a nightmare for them this year.

Top five of their lineup:

Austin Jackson
Torri Hunter
Miguel Cabrera
Prince Fielder
Victor Martinez

[Dnthateonthepronk]

buzzkill

[andrew6586]

Torri Hunter to the Tigers. Big upgrade in RF, which was a nightmare for them this year.

Top five of their lineup:

Austin Jackson
Torri Hunter
Miguel Cabrera
Prince Fielder
Victor Martinez

Awesome. Now when we play them it will be murderer's row vs. suicide row.

[skatingtripods]

Jeremy Guthrie just got a 3-year deal from the Royals. And Dayton Moore wonders why the Royals don't win.

[idoctribefan]

Jeremy Guthrie just got a 3-year deal from the Royals. And Dayton Moore wonders why the Royals don't win.

My initial reaction was to Google "Jeremy Guthrie" to see if there was another, better Jeremy Guthrie that I did not know about who might deserve 3 yrs/$25 million. There wasn't. 'Twas the one and only Jeremy Guthrie.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

I smell desperation

[leadpipe]

I wouldn't want Jeremy Guthrie.

I found it hilarious years ago when people on this site felt the Tribe "ruined him" "Didn't give him a fair chance" or "Lost a gem."

But with those things being said, before we run around exhausting all our "Jeremy Guthrie Blows" jokes, it should be understood that A. He'd clearly make the Tribe's rotation and B. He wouldn't be the most overpaid hurler on the squad.

You know how the really fat kid in class shouldn't be busting the balls of a kid cause he's short....

[Adverb Harry]

I wouldn't want Jeremy Guthrie.

I found it hilarious years ago when people on this site felt the Tribe "ruined him" "Didn't give him a fair chance" or "Lost a gem."

But with those things being said, before we run around exhausting all our "Jeremy Guthrie Blows" jokes...

Damn it, I had a good one, too: Jeremy Guthrie blows so hard, Kaz Tadano wanted him to come play for his team.

[skatingtripods]

BJ Upton gets 5/75.25 on the open market and without much of a bidding war for his services.

[WiscTribeFan]

I wouldn't want Jeremy Guthrie.

I found it hilarious years ago when people on this site felt the Tribe "ruined him" "Didn't give him a fair chance" or "Lost a gem."

But with those things being said, before we run around exhausting all our "Jeremy Guthrie Blows" jokes, it should be understood that A. He'd clearly make the Tribe's rotation and B. He wouldn't be the most overpaid hurler on the squad.

You know how the really fat kid in class shouldn't be busting the balls of a kid cause he's short....

What's more sad is that Guthrie probably would be the Tribe's second best starter.

Maybe their best.

[Spin]

Russell Martin to the Pirates.