Sandusky

[furls]

No punishment would have ever been hard enough, therefore there should have never been a punishment. I think PSU should have talked to the NCAA, sanctioned itself (including a year off and a lot less of the long term stuff) and the NCAA should have bought off on it. PSU was the wrong place for the NCAA to make a stand as it is not really their "wheelhouse."

[e0y2e3]

Ah, but it is in that they didn't have to do any investigation and had the entire thing handed to them on a silver platter. The efficiency and efforts of the NCAA are laughable, just look at Oregon and Miami, still waiting on solutions when Yahoo handed them about 85 smoking guns.

PSU was perfect, there was public ferver and they didn't have to spend a cent on the investigation on their own.

[danwismar]

PSU was perfect, there was public ferver and they didn't have to spend a cent on the investigation on their own.

And they get their hands on $60 million to dispense as they see fit. Wonder what percentage of that will be caught up in "administrative overhead"

[pup]

Isn't the $60M to be left in PSU's hands to create something to advance knowledge and treatment of sexual abuse?

I always thought the death penalty was the best thing to do. After seeing what they did do and thinking about it, what they did makes sense. They are enabling (with a 1 year hiatus from the fine) PSU to provide for all of the athletes and programs that are not a problem. As long as Beaver continues to sell out, only the football program is going to be damaged. Which is a good thing, since the culture created by the football program is what was really out of whack.

[danwismar]

Isn't the $60M to be left in PSU's hands...

Could be, but I hadn't heard that. If so, it would be unlike any "fine" ever. It was to be paid out at $12 million a year for five years.

[pup]

Little of both:

The NCAA said the $60 million was equivalent to the average annual revenue of the football program. The NCAA ordered Penn State to pay the penalty funds into an endowment for "external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at the university.

I guess the only thing I missed was the money cannot fund programs at the University.

[danwismar]

Thanks. I stand corrected that the NCAA will be the ones dispensing the funds.

[e0y2e3]

Although it should be said that Mark Emmert is one dumb fucking asshole.

Letting opposing coaches come on campus to chase current PSU football players around conveys pretty much the exact opposite message of football not being geezes.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

Although it should be said that Mark Emmert is one dumb fucking asshole.

Letting opposing coaches come on campus to chase current PSU football players around conveys pretty much the exact opposite message of football not being geezes.

Emmerit's actions and words have proven even now, its not about abuse, its about the money

The 60 mil is to be donated to programs and agenecies that treat child abuse, IIRC, and PSU's 13 mil share of Big 10 money gets held back, so, thats another mil per yr for OSU to buy another football player...

Seriously, save the 'my school is holier than thou' crap

The guilty have yet to be punished, BTW..............

[e0y2e3]

Pretty sure (99%) the B1G money is going to B1G charities, not the other schools.

[furls]

Pretty sure (99%) the B1G money is going to B1G charities, not the other schools.

Spare me your facts.

[FUDU]

The voice message is pretty creepy, maybe it is b/c it is after the fact (of knowing how disturbing Jerry was/is), but still.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

Just more proof the Emmert and the NCAA are hypocrites

http://collegefootballtalk.nbc...nished-penn-st/


The report, a multi-million dollar project spanning eight months investigating Penn State’s (in)action into the Jerry Sandusky allegations, was designed to unearth exactly when and where university officials went wrong, as well as act as a recommendation for new university policy to prevent further malfeasance.
Instead, it became the basis for Emmert’s unprecedented ultimatum to interim PSU president Rodney Erickson: accept a $60 million fine, four-year postseason ban, scholarship reduction and five-year probation — not to mention vacated 111 vacated wins — or get the Death penalty. The whole process bypassed traditional NCAA investigative protocol so fast, it had SEC speed.
In this case, that was too fast. And that’s not just, like, my opinion, man. A member of the Freeh Group told The Chronicle of Higher Education that Emmert misused the Freeh report as a substitute for normal NCAA investigative steps. Below are just some of the quotes to the Chronicle:
“That document was not meant to be used as the sole piece, or the large piece, of the NCAA’s decision-making… It was meant to be a mechanism to help Penn State move forward. To be used otherwise creates an obstacle to the institution changing.”
“The Freeh team reviewed how Penn State operated, not how they worked within the NCAA’s system… The NCAA’s job is to investigate whether Penn State broke its rules and whether it gained a competitive advantage in doing so.”
“The NCAA took this report and ran with it without further exploration.”
Evidence of the NCAA’s rush to judgement is already tangible. While some coaches are claiming to take the high road of not actively recruiting Penn State players now free to transfer wherever they choose, others are much more open about it.Tennessee, USC, Illinois, Arizona and Kansas are among them.
That’s not a slight against any program pursuing a transfer — they’re doing exactly what they’re allowed to do — but in punishing Penn State officials’ criminal acts with athletic sanctions, the NCAA didn’t reprimanded the “football-first” culture in Happy Valley.
It pushed it elsewhere.
Would that have been avoided if the NCAA had gone through its traditional routine with a Notice of Inquiry, Notice of Allegations and Committee on Infractions hearing? Maybe not. The NCAA can only punish a program in so many ways because it lacks subpoena power. But at least there would have been another review, one the NCAA can directly point to as its own work rather than rely on another’s.

[jb]

L8 to the party.

This may be the only thime during this whole thing I almost agree with eyesore. This was prtty much fair, and pretty innovative. I think the schollie limit needed to be 10 instead of 15. To change the culture the NCAA needed to ensure that State Perv's lone wins would come vs the PSAC and IU would house them by 40 PPG for a year or two.

As it stands now, at their nadir they will have 60 schollies, enough to stock a 3 deep. That is for 1 season. I'm not sure that is enough to make Perv State as bad as people are all assuming. For a true blue PA or Joysey kid it is still a chance to play for 100,000 and live the dream. It will still be an NFL factory televised for all but one stupid game as Perv State never plays in the BCS Title game. I don't think this team will be nearly as bad on the field as they hyps is suggesting. I think they will compete with the lower levels of the Big 11 just fine. After a string of 3 or 4 3 or 4 win seasons they will rise again to an 11 - 25 program, just as they have been for the entire 21st Century.

What was done stings financially, it holds JoePervEnabler accountable for all times, and dings the FB program without the nuculer coolateral damage option for the other sports or economic community. Emmert done good.

[jb]

Although it should be said that Mark Emmert is one dumb fucking asshole.

Letting opposing coaches come on campus to chase current PSU football players around conveys pretty much the exact opposite message of football not being geezes.

Emmerit's actions and words have proven even now, its not about abuse, its about the money

The 60 mil is to be donated to programs and agenecies that treat child abuse, IIRC, and PSU's 13 mil share of Big 10 money gets held back, so, thats another mil per yr for OSU to buy another football player...

Seriously, save the 'my school is holier than thou' crap

The guilty have yet to be punished, BTW..............

Money is punishment numbnuts.

[jb]

No punishment would have ever been hard enough, therefore there should have never been a punishment.

Huh?

Furls my man, did you come up from the depths too quickly to think that one up? ;-)

[OldDawg]

Franco and alums challenge Freeh report.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/f ... &eref=sihp

Of course something like this was going to happen. But there are some valid points. I have wondered about this as well. Freeh made 'reasonable conclusions' in his report. Many of which wouldn't be considered 'facts' in a court of law.

The curley email that said 'after talking with Joe I feel uncomfortabble...' Does that really mean Joe said 'hey, let's cover this up.' is it possible that joepa never said anything like that? Is it possible that Curley simply felt bad about joepa's legacy on his own after a conversation with joepa and didn't want to see joepa damaged. Until you interview Curley, you have no idea what what joepa said.

The Freeh report certainly showed that joepa knew stuff he said he didn't. However, in a court of law, saying he authored the coverup is a stretch. Maybe joepa did. But a couple casual references in emails not from him isn't firm proof.

If joepa wanted to cover it up, why did he tell his superiors? Isn't that a 'reasonable conclusion?'

I also think no one DARE question the Freeh report. To do so would be insensitive to the victims. So everyone is accepting his 'reasonable conclusions' as fact. A court of law would have a much higher standard of proof.

I have also wondered if Freeh isn't plain old human. After interviewing countless people and pouring thru tons of emails and docs, he found 1 email that referenced joepa thirdhand in 1998 and one in 2001/2 . And it seems his whole report hinged on those 2 emails. I agree they are significant finds. But did he over reach on his conclusions to make his report more significant. 'Hey! Look what I found!' We knew before his report that those 4 people knew about it and did nothing. It seemed like the only new stuff was those emails, to which he made conclusions.

Hey, I am not defending anyone. It's just that the most integral people in this situation weren't even interviewed. The Freeh report certainly revealed people of power did not act to stop Sandusky, continued to give him access, gave him clout as he retired and worst of all did not act to protect victims, past, present or future. Paterno included. For that, they are all scum. Paterno deserves all the repercussions because of that. I am just not willing to conclude conclusively on the Freeh report that joepa authored the coverup. Turned his head, yes. Demanded of his bosses to not report it, not sure. I would need to talk to the other three.

I have thought this all along, but like everyone else, I never said it because I didn't dare challenge the findings of the report.

At the same time, it is time for the Paterno camp to take some ownership of joepa's failings here, admit them, and be more concerned about victims than joepa.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

Although it should be said that Mark Emmert is one dumb fucking asshole.

Letting opposing coaches come on campus to chase current PSU football players around conveys pretty much the exact opposite message of football not being geezes.

Emmerit's actions and words have proven even now, its not about abuse, its about the money

The 60 mil is to be donated to programs and agenecies that treat child abuse, IIRC, and PSU's 13 mil share of Big 10 money gets held back, so, thats another mil per yr for OSU to buy another football player...

Seriously, save the 'my school is holier than thou' crap

The guilty have yet to be punished, BTW..............

Money is punishment numbnuts.

Clueless....only a nerd would not know I mean jail time and soap on a rope assraping for Spanier, Curly Fries and that other A=hole...as well as McQueer and the janitors...

Like you said...yir L8

...and let me know what part of all this suggests the NCAA isn't all about football?

LMFAO ^^^^^^




The heavy sanctions levied by Emmert against Penn State in the aftermath of the Freeh report was a result of public pressure, the justification to satisfy our culture’s bloodlust and demand for instant gratification. Someone needed to get clobbered at Penn State; it didn’t matter who.

The report, a multi-million dollar project spanning eight months investigating Penn State’s (in)action into the Jerry Sandusky allegations, was designed to unearth exactly when and where university officials went wrong, as well as act as a recommendation for new university policy to prevent further malfeasance.

Instead, it became the basis for Emmert’s unprecedented ultimatum to interim PSU president Rodney Erickson: accept a $60 million fine, four-year postseason ban, scholarship reduction and five-year probation — not to mention vacated 111 vacated wins — or get the Death penalty. The whole process bypassed traditional NCAA investigative protocol so fast, it had SEC speed.

In this case, that was too fast. And that’s not just, like, my opinion, man. A member of the Freeh Group told The Chronicle of Higher Education that Emmert misused the Freeh report as a substitute for normal NCAA investigative steps. Below are just some of the quotes to the Chronicle:

•“That document was not meant to be used as the sole piece, or the large piece, of the NCAA’s decision-making… It was meant to be a mechanism to help Penn State move forward. To be used otherwise creates an obstacle to the institution changing.”
•“The Freeh team reviewed how Penn State operated, not how they worked within the NCAA’s system… The NCAA’s job is to investigate whether Penn State broke its rules and whether it gained a competitive advantage in doing so.”
•“The NCAA took this report and ran with it without further exploration.”

[jb]

Although it should be said that Mark Emmert is one dumb fucking asshole.

Letting opposing coaches come on campus to chase current PSU football players around conveys pretty much the exact opposite message of football not being geezes.

Emmerit's actions and words have proven even now, its not about abuse, its about the money

The 60 mil is to be donated to programs and agenecies that treat child abuse, IIRC, and PSU's 13 mil share of Big 10 money gets held back, so, thats another mil per yr for OSU to buy another football player...

Seriously, save the 'my school is holier than thou' crap

The guilty have yet to be punished, BTW..............

Money is punishment numbnuts.

Clueless....only a nerd would not know I mean jail time and soap on a rope assraping for Spanier, Curly Fries and that other A=hole...as well as McQueer and the janitors...

Like you said...yir L8

...and let me know what part of all this suggests the NCAA isn't all about football?

LMFAO ^^^^^^




The heavy sanctions levied by Emmert against Penn State in the aftermath of the Freeh report was a result of public pressure, the justification to satisfy our culture’s bloodlust and demand for instant gratification. Someone needed to get clobbered at Penn State; it didn’t matter who.

The report, a multi-million dollar project spanning eight months investigating Penn State’s (in)action into the Jerry Sandusky allegations, was designed to unearth exactly when and where university officials went wrong, as well as act as a recommendation for new university policy to prevent further malfeasance.

Instead, it became the basis for Emmert’s unprecedented ultimatum to interim PSU president Rodney Erickson: accept a $60 million fine, four-year postseason ban, scholarship reduction and five-year probation — not to mention vacated 111 vacated wins — or get the Death penalty. The whole process bypassed traditional NCAA investigative protocol so fast, it had SEC speed.

In this case, that was too fast. And that’s not just, like, my opinion, man. A member of the Freeh Group told The Chronicle of Higher Education that Emmert misused the Freeh report as a substitute for normal NCAA investigative steps. Below are just some of the quotes to the Chronicle:

•“That document was not meant to be used as the sole piece, or the large piece, of the NCAA’s decision-making… It was meant to be a mechanism to help Penn State move forward. To be used otherwise creates an obstacle to the institution changing.”
•“The Freeh team reviewed how Penn State operated, not how they worked within the NCAA’s system… The NCAA’s job is to investigate whether Penn State broke its rules and whether it gained a competitive advantage in doing so.”
•“The NCAA took this report and ran with it without further exploration.”

Why don't you think those 3 aren't going to do time for perjury?

I read you to suggest that the NCAA is using this as sone form of income re-distribution. Am I offf base?

I read clips. I read some lame Chsty Puller quotes, but I have NF idea what point you are trying to make.

[furls]

No punishment would have ever been hard enough, therefore there should have never been a punishment.

Huh?

Furls my man, did you come up from the depths too quickly to think that one up? ;-)

Yeah bro, in rereading that it is pretty a poorly way of expressing my point. I am not saying that PSU should've walked on this one, absolutely not, but PSU should have shut themselves down and not sold it is a sanction pushed by the NCAA, but as a "timeout" called by the school to get their priorities in order.

It is ridiculous to talk about bowl bans and scholarship reductions as "punishments" for endorsing a culture that implicity sanctioned pedophilia. I know the guilty will serve time, and that is about as good as we can get for punishment, but this seems like we are somehow saying that a couple of cancelled field trips to some shit bowl in Florida = punishment for this travesty. That was my point.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

Although it should be said that Mark Emmert is one dumb fucking asshole.

Letting opposing coaches come on campus to chase current PSU football players around conveys pretty much the exact opposite message of football not being geezes.

Emmerit's actions and words have proven even now, its not about abuse, its about the money

The 60 mil is to be donated to programs and agenecies that treat child abuse, IIRC, and PSU's 13 mil share of Big 10 money gets held back, so, thats another mil per yr for OSU to buy another football player...

Seriously, save the 'my school is holier than thou' crap

The guilty have yet to be punished, BTW..............

Money is punishment numbnuts.

Clueless....only a nerd would not know I mean jail time and soap on a rope assraping for Spanier, Curly Fries and that other A=hole...as well as McQueer and the janitors...

Like you said...yir L8

...and let me know what part of all this suggests the NCAA isn't all about football?

LMFAO ^^^^^^




The heavy sanctions levied by Emmert against Penn State in the aftermath of the Freeh report was a result of public pressure, the justification to satisfy our culture’s bloodlust and demand for instant gratification. Someone needed to get clobbered at Penn State; it didn’t matter who.

The report, a multi-million dollar project spanning eight months investigating Penn State’s (in)action into the Jerry Sandusky allegations, was designed to unearth exactly when and where university officials went wrong, as well as act as a recommendation for new university policy to prevent further malfeasance.

Instead, it became the basis for Emmert’s unprecedented ultimatum to interim PSU president Rodney Erickson: accept a $60 million fine, four-year postseason ban, scholarship reduction and five-year probation — not to mention vacated 111 vacated wins — or get the Death penalty. The whole process bypassed traditional NCAA investigative protocol so fast, it had SEC speed.

In this case, that was too fast. And that’s not just, like, my opinion, man. A member of the Freeh Group told The Chronicle of Higher Education that Emmert misused the Freeh report as a substitute for normal NCAA investigative steps. Below are just some of the quotes to the Chronicle:

•“That document was not meant to be used as the sole piece, or the large piece, of the NCAA’s decision-making… It was meant to be a mechanism to help Penn State move forward. To be used otherwise creates an obstacle to the institution changing.”
•“The Freeh team reviewed how Penn State operated, not how they worked within the NCAA’s system… The NCAA’s job is to investigate whether Penn State broke its rules and whether it gained a competitive advantage in doing so.”
•“The NCAA took this report and ran with it without further exploration.”

Why don't you think those 3 aren't going to do time for perjury?

I read you to suggest that the NCAA is using this as sone form of income re-distribution. Am I offf base?

I read clips. I read some lame Chsty Puller quotes, but I have NF idea what point you are trying to make.

Chesty Puller?....WTF are you talking about now?



You and others seem to think some kind of point has been made about colleges putting footbal first...

I think you're naive at best for thinking that...seriously foolish at worst

This is greta stuff tho...one day I reaD how Emmert and the NCAA are dispensing just punishment, the next I read what big assholes they are as regards the BCS and their Good Old White Boi network of leeches.....

I guess you missed my rants about everyone, even PSU fan, or, esp OSU fan, idolizing their football programs and their coaches...?

Meaning, I'm not a Fan-Boi like yourself so, I see things more objectively

Jopa is dead...so is his legacy

Having open season on PSU players and coaches from opposing schools recruiting same on their own campus is just totally fuking classless

<----can't wait for new TV contract and BCS playoff to prove NCAA is not all about football, like PSU

[furls]

Although it should be said that Mark Emmert is one dumb fucking asshole.

Letting opposing coaches come on campus to chase current PSU football players around conveys pretty much the exact opposite message of football not being geezes.

Emmerit's actions and words have proven even now, its not about abuse, its about the money

The 60 mil is to be donated to programs and agenecies that treat child abuse, IIRC, and PSU's 13 mil share of Big 10 money gets held back, so, thats another mil per yr for OSU to buy another football player...

Seriously, save the 'my school is holier than thou' crap

The guilty have yet to be punished, BTW..............

Money is punishment numbnuts.

Clueless....only a nerd would not know I mean jail time and soap on a rope assraping for Spanier, Curly Fries and that other A=hole...as well as McQueer and the janitors...

Like you said...yir L8

...and let me know what part of all this suggests the NCAA isn't all about football?

LMFAO ^^^^^^




The heavy sanctions levied by Emmert against Penn State in the aftermath of the Freeh report was a result of public pressure, the justification to satisfy our culture’s bloodlust and demand for instant gratification. Someone needed to get clobbered at Penn State; it didn’t matter who.

The report, a multi-million dollar project spanning eight months investigating Penn State’s (in)action into the Jerry Sandusky allegations, was designed to unearth exactly when and where university officials went wrong, as well as act as a recommendation for new university policy to prevent further malfeasance.

Instead, it became the basis for Emmert’s unprecedented ultimatum to interim PSU president Rodney Erickson: accept a $60 million fine, four-year postseason ban, scholarship reduction and five-year probation — not to mention vacated 111 vacated wins — or get the Death penalty. The whole process bypassed traditional NCAA investigative protocol so fast, it had SEC speed.

In this case, that was too fast. And that’s not just, like, my opinion, man. A member of the Freeh Group told The Chronicle of Higher Education that Emmert misused the Freeh report as a substitute for normal NCAA investigative steps. Below are just some of the quotes to the Chronicle:

•“That document was not meant to be used as the sole piece, or the large piece, of the NCAA’s decision-making… It was meant to be a mechanism to help Penn State move forward. To be used otherwise creates an obstacle to the institution changing.”
•“The Freeh team reviewed how Penn State operated, not how they worked within the NCAA’s system… The NCAA’s job is to investigate whether Penn State broke its rules and whether it gained a competitive advantage in doing so.”
•“The NCAA took this report and ran with it without further exploration.”

Why don't you think those 3 aren't going to do time for perjury?

I read you to suggest that the NCAA is using this as sone form of income re-distribution. Am I offf base?

I read clips. I read some lame Chsty Puller quotes, but I have NF idea what point you are trying to make.

Chesty Puller?....WTF are you talking about now?



You and others seem to think some kind of point has been made about colleges putting footbal first...

I think you're naive at best for thinking that...seriously foolish at worst

This is greta stuff tho...one day I reaD how Emmert and the NCAA are dispensing just punishment, the next I read what big assholes they are as regards the BCS and their Good Old White Boi network of leeches.....

I guess you missed my rants about everyone, even PSU fan, or, esp OSU fan, idolizing their football programs and their coaches...?

Meaning, I'm not a Fan-Boi like yourself so, I see things more objectively

Jopa is dead...so is his legacy

Having open season on PSU players and coaches from opposing schools recruiting same on their own campus is just totally fuking classless

<----can't wait for new TV contract and BCS playoff to prove NCAA is not all about football, like PSU

Hahaha, I love how you think your objective. It's cute.

PSU fan crying about the travesty of the NCAA. Sounds a lot like those OSU fans that were going through the anger stage of the grieving process last year. Everyone knows the NCAA is all about $$ you are just the only one in the room that made the revelation last week.

[jb]

Chesty Puller?....WTF are you talking about now?

Same question I ask myself 98.5% of the time after the bad habit of reading your posts.

And stop with the phony objectivity already.

None of those kids should have to be covered in the stink of preditory pedophilia and an entire community that let it go on looking the other way for money and vainglory for nearly 15 years. They can rah-rah and try to close circle, but they can't comparmentalize anything outside of Centre County in the real world. Coaches are doing them a favor by presenting options if they want to do the right thing.

So yeah, blame Overland Park for the Perv State Community's systematic cover up aned therefore active and deliberate enablement of preditory pedophilia. Or hold up cardinal sins up as tantamount to that which is beyond mortal sin in a lame fan's attempt to create some fantastic and fabricated sense of moral equivalency. And then have the audacity to drop "fan boi" gloss as the cherry on this shit sundae of logic.

Anyone but a Joepostle can see the nonsense here.

[furls]

jb,

He hates JoePa and wished he was gone 15 years ago (like most PSU fans that realized that JoePa was not really helping the team win anymore), but rack the rest of the take. I love when one fan claims "objectivity."

I wear my bias right there in my avatar. I don't pretend to be objective. Never have, never will.

[motherscratcher]

Remember that scene in Swingers when John Favreau leaves a message on that broad's answering machine(remember those?), but it doesn't come out right and he calls back, but that message doesn't come out right either? And he just keeps calling and leaving more messages, each one worse and more creepy than the last? It's mortifying.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/03/paterno-family-files-appeal-against-ncaa-for-psu-sanctions/

Sometimes the best thing to do...the ONLY thing to do, is just for the love of Dog...Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

Holy Hell.

[StewieG]

Apparently the other side of the deal was a 4-year death penalty.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/ ... extinction

[Govbarney]

Just when you think the shitstorm is done for PSU , now there are reports that their accreditation is in jeopardy. I can't think of a punishment worse then that, makes the death penalty look like a slap on the wrist.

[Fire Marshall Bill 2.0]

Chesty Puller?....WTF are you talking about now?

Same question I ask myself 98.5% of the time after the bad habit of reading your posts.

And stop with the phony objectivity already.

None of those kids should have to be covered in the stink of preditory pedophilia and an entire community that let it go on looking the other way for money and vainglory for nearly 15 years. They can rah-rah and try to close circle, but they can't comparmentalize anything outside of Centre County in the real world. Coaches are doing them a favor by presenting options if they want to do the right thing.

So yeah, blame Overland Park for the Perv State Community's systematic cover up aned therefore active and deliberate enablement of preditory pedophilia. Or hold up cardinal sins up as tantamount to that which is beyond mortal sin in a lame fan's attempt to create some fantastic and fabricated sense of moral equivalency. And then have the audacity to drop "fan boi" gloss as the cherry on this shit sundae of logic.

Anyone but a Joepostle can see the nonsense here.

Dude, seriously....fuck of with your holier than everyone schtick and take a Humble pill

I give your takes on this matter the same weight as I do your tripe about you being politically Independent

[jb]

Chesty Puller?....WTF are you talking about now?

Same question I ask myself 98.5% of the time after the bad habit of reading your posts.

And stop with the phony objectivity already.

None of those kids should have to be covered in the stink of preditory pedophilia and an entire community that let it go on looking the other way for money and vainglory for nearly 15 years. They can rah-rah and try to close circle, but they can't comparmentalize anything outside of Centre County in the real world. Coaches are doing them a favor by presenting options if they want to do the right thing.

So yeah, blame Overland Park for the Perv State Community's systematic cover up aned therefore active and deliberate enablement of preditory pedophilia. Or hold up cardinal sins up as tantamount to that which is beyond mortal sin in a lame fan's attempt to create some fantastic and fabricated sense of moral equivalency. And then have the audacity to drop "fan boi" gloss as the cherry on this shit sundae of logic.

Anyone but a Joepostle can see the nonsense here.

Dude, seriously....fuck of with your holier than everyone schtick and take a Humble pill

I give your takes on this matter the same weight as I do your tripe about you being politically Independent

Nice 3 week turnaround time there Hoss. Like a passive-aggressive Tommy Chong.

Take a "humble pill" says the most acid-spirited judgemental & dissmissive troll in the domain who last made a relevant sports related post in the 20th Century. Uh, OK.

WWR is that way.

[motherscratcher]

Anyone going to read Posnanski's book?

[FUDU]

Anyone going to read Posnanski's book?

Tell you what, why don't you read it first, then post your recommendation in the Now Reading thread.

[motherscratcher]

Anyone going to read Posnanski's book?

Tell you what, why don't you read it first, then post your recommendation in the Now Reading thread.

I will.

[danwismar]

My buddy Allen Barra (he's the guy who dropped my name and TCF, and quoted my Lowder-Auburn article in his WSJ piece in Dec, 2010) reviews Posnanski's "Paterno" at The Atlantic site. Needless to say, it is not a positive review, as the title makes clear...

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen ... ch/261376/

[furls]

I am shocked that there are still people out there apologizing for this guy. He is dead, his role in this is pretty obvious. Why do people keep defending him? His legacy is as dead as he is; he will always be known as one of the great scumbags of sports.

[jb]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/07/14995089-penn-state-ex-president-spanier-arraigned-in-case-stemming-from-sandusky-child-sex-abuse?lite

Perhaps the coming conviction or plea deal will finally serve up a big serving of STFU to the JoPologists who keep parrotting "this was the act one one man". With any luck, he'll spill the beans on JoPa's role when he sings like the canary he'll be.

Does the NCAA have a policy of double jeprady should MORE come out?

[danwismar]

I'd love to see one or more of these suits get some prison time for their roles in perpetuating this crime. Testimony against a dead man should count for nothing in mitigating Spanier's sentence. Say no to a plea bargain and prosecute him to the fullest.

[e0y2e3]

Agree with Dan, snitching on a dead guy for a please is about the shadiest and most cowardly thing you could possibly do. Tri the effer to the furthest degree possible.

[jb]

Poor takes.

Like saying it'd be punk to testify against Nazi's at Nurenberg. For Penn State to get right it all has to come out on record and the purge must be complete. The denyers muct be slienced for this to never happen again.

[peeker643]

Poor takes.

Like saying it'd be punk to testify against Nazi's at Nurenberg. For Penn State to get right it all has to come out on record and the purge must be complete. The denyers muct be slienced for this to never happen again.

Never going to happen then.

For logistical and financial reasons.

1. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many 'denyers'.
2. Trials are expensive. Maybe in Shangri-La you prosecute every single person to the fullest extent, costs be damned, so that Happy Valley is cleansed. But it ain't gonna happen and as soon as you rinse the dirt down the sink anywhere in college football crazed places, it just comes pouring back in anyway.

I respect y'all wanting the very best. But at some point we'll all settle for good enough.

[danwismar]

Poor takes.

Like saying it'd be punk to testify against Nazi's at Nurenberg. For Penn State to get right it all has to come out on record and the purge must be complete. The denyers muct be slienced for this to never happen again.

Notice the difference between what I said and what Lee said. No disagreement that the truth should come out. The reason we accept plea bargains though, is so we can punish other perpetrators and serve justice. I said Spanier's testimony shouldn't be allowed to mitigate his own sentence, because we can't punish Paterno or Sandusky any more.

The whole point of trying Spanier is to punish Spanier.

Does anyone doubt Paterno was intimately involved with knowledge of the whole sick affair?...or need to learn more about the nitty gritty details of it at the expense of justice for Spanier and the other suits?

I made no judgment about Spanier's manhood. Who gives a shit?

Well played with the Nuremberg comparison though. So much in common with this case.

[peeker643]

Poor takes.

Like saying it'd be punk to testify against Nazi's at Nurenberg. For Penn State to get right it all has to come out on record and the purge must be complete. The denyers muct be slienced for this to never happen again.

Notice the difference between what I said and what Lee said. No disagreement that the truth should come out. The reason we accept plea bargains though, is so we can punish other perpetrators and serve justice. I said Spanier's testimony shouldn't be allowed to mitigate his own sentence, because we can't punish Paterno or Sandusky any more.

The whole point of trying Spanier is to punish Spanier.

Does anyone doubt Paterno was intimately involved with knowledge of the whole sick affair?...or need to learn more about the nitty gritty details of it at the expense of justice for Spanier and the other suits?

I made no judgment about Spanier's manhood. Who gives a shit?

JB likes to drop by once a month and remind us how dumb and politically transparent we all are. Relative to him, anyway.

[danwismar]

Not sure how anyone's politics plays out here...his or ours. jb apparently thinks there will be more truth-telling, and hence a more complete "purge", if Spanier is given leniency in return for testimony...which is a legitimate point of view. I wouldn't call it a poor take. (How they could "purge" more completely after firing all the principals is not clear to me)

He hasn't explained how he thinks that would help the university move on. Maybe he thinks the Paterno loyalists/deniers would then shut up. They wouldn't, of course. And how could they be more discredited than they have already been, really?

My point above stands. There are only a couple of really culpable individuals left to bring to justice in the whole sordid fiasco. Why these scumbags should be given leniency so that we can learn more about Paterno's complicity (which no serious person doubts) is something of which I remain unconvinced. If jb has a case to make along those lines, I hope he brings it on.

[e0y2e3]

Perhaps "I AGREE WITH DAN" wasn't clear enough.

I in no way think the truth shouldn't come out, I think some guy snithcing in a completely unverifiable way is pointless. If the guy has rock solid proof, etc, great. Also, if he has it he should provide it as a service and then be pursued to the fullest amount allowed by the law.

[peeker643]

Not sure how anyone's politics plays out here...his or ours

I was blending this thread (where your takes are bad) with the Election GameDay Thread (where we made him laugh).

[jb]

Does anyone doubt Paterno was intimately involved with knowledge of the whole sick affair?...

Are you seriously asking that Danny?

No rational human being does. But there are plenty JoePologists still yammering about all the injustice and that this was the act on of man.

All the laundry needs to be aired.

To Peekers' point, not all will be indicted and serve time for conspiracy. They don't need to in my opinion. Just like with post-Nazi Germany you draw the line somewhere as you can't jail all of Centre County's residents who may have heard heresay.

But you do need to get all of this on record and out in the open before the stink can start to be washed away. It is only there with sanducky and not enough factual is on conviction record about the conspiracy.

[jb]

Not sure how anyone's politics plays out here...his or ours

I was blending this thread (where your takes are bad) with the Election GameDay Thread (where we made him laugh).

What passes for "discussion" is just brutally stupid in some internet regions. I suppose it is intended to be for ball-breakin's sake. If that's what moves some, great. Live and let live. I just like to drive by and remind you I'm right and you're wrong. ;-)

[jb]

Perhaps "I AGREE WITH DAN" wasn't clear enough.

[danwismar]

Does anyone doubt Paterno was intimately involved with knowledge of the whole sick affair?...

Are you seriously asking that Danny?

No rational human being does. But there are plenty JoePologists still yammering about all the injustice and that this was the act on of man.

All the laundry needs to be aired.

To Peekers' point, not all will be indicted and serve time for conspiracy. They don't need to in my opinion. Just like with post-Nazi Germany you draw the line somewhere as you can't jail all of Centre County's residents who may have heard heresay.

But you do need to get all of this on record and out in the open before the stink can start to be washed away. It is only there with sanducky and not enough factual is on conviction record about the conspiracy.

We may well be in dead horse-beating territory here, but that never stopped me before....so...

You admit that only the irrational JoePologists of the world are in doubt about Paterno's complicity, yet you somehow believe they will finally shut up if and when more hard evidence is put before them? Like I asked before...how could they be more discredited than they are already? And what makes you think that yet more facts will make them shut up?

You also seem to think that the laundry will be aired more and better if the suits are granted leniency. I question that assumption as well. The prosecutors have enough evidence to indict Spanier and Curley for perjury, among other things, and that evidence would be presented in public at their trials. One assumes much of that perjury had to do with who knew what (including Paterno) and when did they know it?

If they plea-bargain out of a trial, there will be no public forum where this laundry is aired. Do you suppose the university or the prosecutors will air the laundry later...out of some sense of the public's right to know...no matter how sordid and ugly and embarrassing it may be? And whose prosecution...and what justice...will be served by letting them cop a plea?

You seem to think that if they aren't allowed to cop, we'll never hear the evidence against them...which presumably includes more proof of Paterno's guilt. I don't think there's any basis for that belief. Tell me how I'm wrong...again.

[danwismar]

Perhaps "I AGREE WITH DAN" wasn't clear enough.

I in no way think the truth shouldn't come out, I think some guy snithcing in a completely unverifiable way is pointless. If the guy has rock solid proof, etc, great. Also, if he has it he should provide it as a service and then be pursued to the fullest amount allowed by the law.

No, that was very clear, and I'm glad you agreed with me on not allowing a plea bargain.

What jb had reacted to in what he collectively referred to as our "poor takes", was the suggestion that Spanier would be a "punk" or a "snitch" or a "coward" for testifying against whomever else. My point was that those weren't characterizations that I had made...that I don't give a shit about whether or not he can be considered a "stand-up guy" at this point. I care about him being held to account for the crimes he committed...all of them...to the fullest degree possible. I don't have a hearing or reading comprehension problem.

[jb]

Does anyone doubt Paterno was intimately involved with knowledge of the whole sick affair?...

Are you seriously asking that Danny?

No rational human being does. But there are plenty JoePologists still yammering about all the injustice and that this was the act on of man.

All the laundry needs to be aired.

To Peekers' point, not all will be indicted and serve time for conspiracy. They don't need to in my opinion. Just like with post-Nazi Germany you draw the line somewhere as you can't jail all of Centre County's residents who may have heard heresay.

But you do need to get all of this on record and out in the open before the stink can start to be washed away. It is only there with sanducky and not enough factual is on conviction record about the conspiracy.

We may well be in dead horse-beating territory here, but that never stopped me before....so...

You admit that only the irrational JoePologists of the world are in doubt about Paterno's complicity, yet you somehow believe they will finally shut up if and when more hard evidence is put before them? Like I asked before...how could they be more discredited than they are already? And what makes you think that yet more facts will make them shut up?

You also seem to think that the laundry will be aired more and better if the suits are granted leniency. I question that assumption as well. The prosecutors have enough evidence to indict Spanier and Curley for perjury, among other things, and that evidence would be presented in public at their trials. One assumes much of that perjury had to do with who knew what (including Paterno) and when did they know it?

If they plea-bargain out of a trial, there will be no public forum where this laundry is aired. Do you suppose the university or the prosecutors will air the laundry later...out of some sense of the public's right to know...no matter how sordid and ugly and embarrassing it may be? And whose prosecution...and what justice...will be served by letting them cop a plea?

You seem to think that if they aren't allowed to cop, we'll never hear the evidence against them...which presumably includes more proof of Paterno's guilt. I don't think there's any basis for that belief. Tell me how I'm wrong...again.

Not making a case ofr a plea deal. I was just saying Spanier is in such deep kimchee he's gonna sing like a canary. Nothing more. hang 'em high AFAIC.

Just get all the details out in wirting, in public, on record, as part of a conviction. IOW, indisputable fact that a) there was a cover up and b) it was not just between a handful of people, and c) JoPa knew and knew it all.